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Honeycocoa

Small Talk: The Prayer Closet

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Wow...just catching up on this wild ride. Like many others, I feel pretty stupid for being so naive. Thanks to Burlsa Burlsa's Mom, Absalom and the best mods ever for all of the time and effort you put in to investigating and handling this. You all are awesome!

I really hope that this board can regroup and carry on after this. I'd miss it if it went away.

Burlsa, yay Spartans! Now let's hope Ohio State goes down. (Hawkeye fan)

ETA - Big 10 fans, come on over to the college football thread in Sports!

Edited by MargeGunderson
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Wow...just catching up on this wild ride. Like many others, I feel pretty stupid for being so naive. Thanks to Burlsa Burlsa's Mom, Absalom and the best mods ever for all of the time and effort you put in to investigating and handling this. You all are awesome!

I really hope that this board can regroup and carry on after this. I'd miss it if it went away.

Burlsa, yay Spartans! Now let's hope Ohio State goes down. (Hawkeye fan)

ETA - Big 10 fans, come on over to the college football thread in Sports!

I'm always ready for Ohio state to go down! I might have to check that thread out! I'm still in shock. My grandpa was like "holy shit, there's a loose ball!"

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I can answer some of your general questions -

A sock aka a sock-puppet is a second account by the same user. Usually they post to back up the first "trollish" user.

I suspect the Con got word of the scam and took it down (along with their final post about not wanting drama) to try and garner up more sympathy where people would reach out to them offline and offer to send money via snail-mail or other electronic methods

Online scammers tend to have the same MO. A sad story gets more and more elaborate and dramatic. I was on another message board where someone "died" and their "husband" was left to raise their "two children" who were "disabled". Except no one died, there was no husband or children.

Thank you. I'd think it'd be rather exausted keeping track of all the lies.
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My second and last job - before retirement - was at a university with 18K+ students, and we were constantly required to attend what were called digital self-defense classes. There were usually about 4 per year. I'm guessing I attended about 25-30 of them. We were instructed about ALL manner of cyber-security issues, obviously the biggest being prevention. And the biggest take-away I got over all that time? You should always assume anything you put out there in the Ether is gone forever and viewable by anyone. If not immediately, then eventually...

 

Not my intention to be grim about all this - just realistic. One instructor told our group once - "It's just like the old line about writing. Don't put ANYTHING in writing you wouldn't want read in court..."

Edited by Wellfleet
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I don't come here often, but having been a victim of Razing Ruth's, I always took WW'S posts with a huge grain of salt. I'm sorry that so many of you were taken in, just trying to do the right thing. I am angry on your behalf because I love you guys.

Thanks to the whistle-blowers and mods for shutting down the scam in such a timely manner. Nevermore...

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Thank you. I feel silly I didn't know and others did and you cried for me! You are so sweet. If someone had PMed me and told me she was a scammer I would have totally believed them. It makes so much sense once it is pointed out. I really am a pretty logical person. I am also very cynical and suspicious by nature so I am really having a tough time realizing I was duped. I tend to be very self-analytical and I am trying to figure out my blind spot. I think it was my need to discuss my issues with someone else that understood them. And my need to be a smarty-pants and have all the answers. This is a teaching moment for me.

I feel exactly the same, XinaMarie. I paid no attention to the little warning pings I was getting. Only paid attention to my desire to help this poor, sick mommy. I have a feeling we won't be so easily fooled again.

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I don't follow college football much, but I saw coverage of the MSU win today. Congrats to MSU fans. And yeah, I'm going to hell for it, but I do follow pro football and for some reason I am always happy to see one of those horrible Harbaugh brothers lose a game. Including Frick - or was it Frack - who coaches Michigan. So, thanks, MSU! And wow, that was a great way to end - and win - a game!!

Ugh, Harbaugh. He's got god-status in Michigan. Usually I'm not petty and I cheer for both teams, unless we play each other. But the Harbaugh worship has made me want to see Michigan lose.

Today was great though. Michigan got cocky and decided to rub their supposed to be win in our face. You never punt when it's only a two point game with time left on the clock. Serves them right for trying to be jerks.

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A little late to this, but I try to catch up on a thread before replying...

 

A sock puppet is an easy-to-make puppet, using clothing, usually a decorated sock.  To me, sock puppets are first Lamb Chop, Hush Puppy, and Charlie Horse, all friends of Shari Lewis...  Wikipedia tells me that many (or most) of The Shari Lewis Show tapes were wiped and reused for the 1964 Democratic and Republican National Conventions.

 

I haz sad.

Edited by kassygreene
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Ugh, Harbaugh. He's got god-status in Michigan. Usually I'm not petty and I cheer for both teams, unless we play each other. But the Harbaugh worship has made me want to see Michigan lose.

Today was great though. Michigan got cocky and decided to rub their supposed to be win in our face. You never punt when it's only a two point game with time left on the clock. Serves them right for trying to be jerks.

 

Which makes it all the more satisfying.  Way to go, Spartans!  That's my team.

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A little late to this, but I try to catch up on a thread before replying...

A sock puppet is an easy-to-make puppet, using clothing, usually a decorated sock. To me, sock puppets are first Lamb Chop, Hush Puppy, and Charlie Horse, all friends of Shari Lewis... Wikipedia tells me that many (or most) of The Shari Lewis Show tapes were wiped and reused for the 1964 Democratic and Republican National Conventions.

I haz sad.

I had a little stuffed Lamb Chop as a kid. I forgot about that!

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That's PERFECT for me - he's from the land of waffles and French fries ;)

And...and...and don't forget CHOCOLATE, and...and...and GOOD BEER! I'd say your doggie has an awesome heritage! And Malinois are top picks for military working dogs. I got stopped for a random search one day and had a takeout container of food in my car. I asked the handler if that would be a problem, and he said nope. Sure enough, that dog was all business. As far as he was concerned, there was no food even there (nor contraband).
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It's kind of interesting that everyone's brains immediately went to a WW/GEML connection because I found it odd how GEML was all over every thread and then suddenly disappeared the same time WW did. Now the person who set up the GoFundMe is magically gone as well. As far as being an author, people can be anything they want on the Internet. This whole thing is freaky and intriguing at the same time.

And since the Duggars have been quiet, it gave us something new to chew on!

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Thanks for all the feedback on the ancestry tests! The information on police using the databases freaked me out enough that I probably won't do it because I have privacy paranoia issues, but I do find the results fascinating!

 

I only came in at the end of the Razing Ruth drama when people were actively calling her out, but what finalised that lie to me wasn't the drama necessarily but that she'd supposedly been hired by one of the best Library systems in the US with just a BA and a telephone interview. Nope, sorry, not happening. People with Masters in Library Science struggle to get those types of job, no way are you getting it that easy. Funny its the little things.

I never encountered Razing Ruth online, but I've spent some time reading some of her stuff after she was mentioned here. Her library hiring story is definitely bullshit. I work part-time at a small public library and have done so for several years while in school. At one point, I considered going to grad school and becoming a librarian and did a bit of research on the job market, but I decided to go a different route when I saw how difficult it is to get a job with an MLS. 

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I caught the last minute of that MSU game and couldn't believe my eyes. What an ending! My team imploded against Alabama today, dammit. We were a hot mess. I so can't wait to see how we drop in the standings. Ugh.

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And...and...and don't forget CHOCOLATE, and...and...and GOOD BEER! I'd say your doggie has an awesome heritage! And Malinois are top picks for military working dogs. I got stopped for a random search one day and had a takeout container of food in my car. I asked the handler if that would be a problem, and he said nope. Sure enough, that dog was all business. As far as he was concerned, there was no food even there (nor contraband).

 

Obviously not a Lab then.  :)   Everything is potential food.

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I have an MLS and have actually had a pretty nice career working a variety of traditional and non-traditional library and information related jobs for the last 15 years. If I had encountered that story on Razing Ruth I never would have fallen for it. In library school people talked about earning the "magic letters." Most people I knew had been in library positions for decades and finally were going to school to earn their "magic letters" because the profession is very strict about certain positions holding the masters degree regardless of how much experience you have. It meant a huge pay and respect boost at their jobs. I had no background in libraries when I began and I thought it so unfair that I could walk into a position with a newly minted degree and zero experience that the others could do in their sleep with no degree.

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I've wondered about GEML myself, mostly because anytime any of the other people who were raised in very religious families used their own experiences as a way of helping us to relate to the Duggar world, it seemed she would step in and very pointedly remind us all that every family is different, and you can't use your own background to decipher their life...but then she was just as quick to school us all on the Duggars based on the way she was raised...basically exactly what she was telling everyone else they couldn't do. I ended up hiding her posts, because that, and the way she'd frequently sound snotty and condescending (IMO), not helpful and informative got on my nerves.

I noticed GEML stopped posting over the summer, but chalked it up to getting irritated in several threads. It was a heated time and figured she got tired of everyone being extra critical. Then again, I believed WW, so I'm not exactly a reliable judge!

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I have an MLS and have actually had a pretty nice career working a variety of traditional and non-traditional library and information related jobs for the last 15 years. If I had encountered that story on Razing Ruth I never would have fallen for it. In library school people talked about earning the "magic letters." Most people I knew had been in library positions for decades and finally were going to school to earn their "magic letters" because the profession is very strict about certain positions holding the masters degree regardless of how much experience you have. It meant a huge pay and respect boost at their jobs. I had no background in libraries when I began and I thought it so unfair that I could walk into a position with a newly minted degree and zero experience that the others could do in their sleep with no degree.

I have my MLIS too, and most of my classmates had worked in libraries for years and were going for the degree to get the extra pay and better titles. I'm happy that I've kind of gone off the beaten path with my degree, but have been trying to get back in either public or academic libraries, however, since both are city/state budget related, they are hard to find with all the funding cuts and/or job freezes.
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Last night I went to dinner with two very attractive guys who are doing construction on my house. My neighbors have been asking me how I get all the cute guys for my project. We ended up having more than a few margaritas. Let’s just say it wasn’t one too many; it was a pitcher too many. And that pitcher was shared by only two of us because one of the guys had to leave. The lead guy had parked his car in front of my driveway. Parking is hard to find in my neighborhood. He was too drunk to drive, so he left the car there overnight. Now my very gossipy neighbors are thinking I got lucky, very lucky.

Did you? ;)

Edited by Love2dance
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ditto. (And "People Are Strange" by Echo and the Bunnymen just popped in my head)

I think I starting reading TWOP forums back in the late 90's when I was pregnant with my first born. I think "Once and Again" was my first campaign I set $ to (a billboard outside the studio to SOS) (I could be wrong my memory is hazy, maybe it was a different site) but I it seems that I was TWOP forever. I remember the limited edition T-Shirts, I remember "SARS is not the disease, it's short for Sarah". I remember Jon and Kate plus 8 getting kicked off TWOP and they started their own site. I remember the big group hug after the "Six Feet Under" finale (I do miss that forum). Anywho I was active in lots of forums and the point is nothing like this ever happened. But regardless, I'm still happy PTV exists and that this subforum exist.

 

Yeah, the Gosselin board was kicked out so they made Gosselin's Without Pity, and there was the whole Pennmommy scandal on GWOP! She was the same one who perpetrated Ruth actually! 

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It's kind of interesting that everyone's brains immediately went to a WW/GEML connection because I found it odd how GEML was all over every thread and then suddenly disappeared the same time WW did. Now the person who set up the GoFundMe is magically gone as well. As far as being an author, people can be anything they want on the Internet. This whole thing is freaky and intriguing at the same time.

I can't believe this was the only thing I did notice about the whole thing --they disappeared the same time. I figured it had something to do with GEML living out of country (?Ireland) or maybe something ticked her off & she stopped posting. Interesting coincidence?

  

 

Not my intention to be grim about all this - just realistic. One instructor told our group once - "It's just like the old line about writing. Don't put ANYTHING in writing you wouldn't want read in court..."

We were reminded of this when I worked in a doctor's office. Back when there were paper charts. One day me & my coworkers were discussing how one of our phone messages could become famous & end up being "Exhibit B" in a court case & put on an overhead for all to see.
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Yeah, the Gosselin board was kicked out so they made Gosselin's Without Pity, and there was the whole Pennmommy scandal on GWOP! She was the same one who perpetrated Ruth actually! 

and Wanderwoman and someone else here that likes books. Time to call it a day troll C. Pack up and leave already.

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I choose to express my feelings in song.

I just played it about an hour ago, thinking it would be a great theme song in here.  I just love the expression on his face the first time he sings, we just believe.

I purpose to start a band named "Depraved Dissapation".

Gotta play an actual instrument and bring wine.

They need a good band at R.U.   I had to leave the feed last night after that idiot sang, then they had some hideous woman singing.    That place would drive anyone with a brain to drink or take any drug they could get their hands on.

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I feel very stupid about this whole WW situation on many levels. First of all, now I am paranoid that people think I am the sock or the sock puppet or whatever it is called. I offered that woman access to my blog! She would have had a treasure trove of information and pictures to steal to perpetrate her fraud. I already feel like some of the things I told her are notes for sounding more believable in her next fraud.

 

And the most ironic thing is that I am an information professional. In my defense, I came in on the tail end of her story. I was vaguely aware there was a lady on this thread that had a preemie, but I did not go back to the very beginning to get all the details. I was getting confused with some of the things she was saying because it didn't jive with my own personal experiences. I have never heard of a 30 week baby needing Synergis shots for starters. I even debated whether I should say it out loud in a post --- like whose medical advice is this to get the shots? but I decided questioning her would make me look like an unfeeling ass. And I was surprised when she mentioned the baby still had a cannula. Even now I am not sure how old "Maisie" is supposed to be. She mention her growing into 3-6 month clothing and I thought, surely she must be much bigger than that. Anyway, little things that didn't make sense but did not scream fraud.

 

To add to the irony, I JUST went on a FB rant about the disfigured, electrocuted, maimed baby AMEN posts I see littering my newsfeed. After some research I discovered those are click bait and companies make money off of them. And that many times a child's photo has been stolen and used without consent. And then I even read about people pretending to have children and using fake pictures to garner sympathy from people online and it still didn't click in my head! I was even in a preemie mom group that warned about protecting our blogs because people harvest pictures and use them for dishonest purposes. I feel.so.stupid.

 

I original started watching 19K&C when they had Josie because I thought there would be some awareness on micropremie issues and their development addressed and then I realized sadly, it was going to be quite the opposite. Which makes me so mad. It could totally have been an opportunity to educate people about preemie issues, but instead they just swept it under the rug and acted like she is totally normal. At that time I made a post about my own personal story on TWOP and I got smacked down for talking about personal stuff on the episode thread. So I was thrilled there was this prayer closet where we could talk about things and interested to find someone with a similar experience to my own in the thread, too.

 

The topic is very emotional for me and so I really wanted to reach out and help guide someone down this really confusing road. We continue to live it each day because of our daughter's developmental issues. I don't give money to unknown people, so at least my cynicism helped out there. I like to give information. I think it can be just as valuable as money sometimes. It can be very empowering and I wanted to help empower someone whom I thought was vulnerable and lost.

 

eta: Seems like I always have one more thing to say. I am the one that mentioned bussing the Down's syndrome kid. It was unnecessarily exclusionary and the kid was thriving at his local high school. Then they made him go to the special school an hour away. Yes it is all about the least restrictive environment. That is the law. We don't warehouse kids anymore that are not perfect.

 

Oh and WW did engage me point by point on one of my messages which is why I am really feeling paranoid that people think I am the sock.

 

And now all of this is hours of my life I'll never get back.

 

I can confirm that Xinamarie is not the sock. And I don't want you to worry, as I said before your message was very clearly sincere. You actually helped a great deal, because there were times I doubted my sanity and felt like I was on a wild goose chase trying to pin down evidence against WW. And then I came across your post to her. Her response to you was flat. It was a mere acknowledgement. Someone who has a preemie and is reaching out for support from a message board, is going to be more enthusiastic when someone who has been there reaches out to them. I made a note of it. 

 

As far as the age of Maisie, that's anyone's guess. She kept claiming she was 30 weeks and 1 day, but then in her biography she listed Maisie as 31 weeks. And when we used a gestation calculator with the "due dates" WW gave, it would have put Maisie at 32-33 weeks when born. She switched between 30 and 31 weeks quite often. I also found it interesting on the GoFundMe page, how adamant that WW was that Maisie was on a cpap, the pictures of "Maisie" showed a baby not with a cpap but with oxygen tubes. I thought well maybe baby cpaps look different than the ones that people with sleep apnea use. Nope. A quick google images brings up plenty of images with NICU babies on cpaps...

 

Also, I think it shows what an AWESOME person you are, that you wanted to help. And honestly I believe that you're onto something. Advice is more helpful than money in many situations. There are plenty of programs out there to help those in need. And if WW's husband worked for the federal government, they wouldn't be hurting for money or having trouble with insurance. Most normal people would have jumped at the chance to have someone help them through, what I imagine can be a very isolating time. 

 

I just want to stress that I never at once thought of you as a sock. I also wanted to stress that you should continue to offer advice and help, because your post was really helpful to me. I have never met anyone with a premature baby, and so the insight was helpful. :)

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and Wanderwoman and someone else here that likes books. Time to call it a day troll C. Pack up and leave already.

wait what? "Someone who likes books" me? Cause NO!
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I noticed GEML stopped posting over the summer, but chalked it up to getting irritated in several threads. It was a heated time and figured she got tired of everyone being extra critical.

It may have been a dish it, but can't take it kind of thing.  People who are so sure of their opinions need to allow that is all they are is opinions. 

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wait what? "Someone who likes books" me? Cause NO!

Lots of people like books. But the person I'm talking about was Razing Ruth/Wanderwoman and her real name starts with a C. I didn't say it was anyone specifically just that the person likes books.

Edited by Fuzzysox
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It may have been a dish it, but can't take it kind of thing.  People who are so sure of their opinions need to allow that is all they are is opinions. 

 

I'm not going to lie, the know it all-ness was insufferable. I couldn't read here. I feel bad admitting it, but I feel it needed to be said. :(

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Thank you! The attitude got very chippy before the hiatus. I am glad that I wasn't the only person who grew increasingly peeved with her know-it-all posts. She had a life experience for every.single.topic. I found that to be just a little too on the nose. MHO.

Former fundy? Married at 17? Dc Insider? Awesome parent? Neurodevelopment expert? Writer? Legal expert? World Traveler/ExPat? I love to speculate on LOTS of things, but I know that's what I'm doing.

 

My favorite posts of hers were where she would clearly state X, then a professional world post saying that actually X was untrue, but Y was, then she'd carry on with no acknowledgement. She got the now-it-all voice down pat.

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It may have been a dish it, but can't take it kind of thing.  People who are so sure of their opinions need to allow that is all they are is opinions. 

 

In response to my very first post here, someone (I won't say who!) replied, "Does it even matter?!" like I was a moron. It hurt my newbie feelings because I thought I was raising an interesting question for debate. After that, I try to be very mindful of people's feelings when I disagree with them. Those of us who are real people of the non-troll and non-sock variety have real feelings, and our opinions aren't the end-all... Only the Duggars think that they are right ALL THE TIME!

Edited by Guest

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I'm not going to lie, the know it all-ness was insufferable. I couldn't read here. I feel bad admitting it, but I feel it needed to be said. :(

I just can't imagine how D.C. is surviving without her.     :)

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I just can't imagine how D.C. is surviving without her.     :)

I hear there's an opening at the Family Research Council.

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I just can't imagine how D.C. is surviving without him.     :)

Fixed it for you! Poor Josh lost such a cushie gig over his love of being a sinner.

Edited by Fuzzysox
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Delft, to be fair, it's just speculation. Several posters happened to notice that certain forum members seemed to come and go at the same time intervals and wondered if perhaps it was another faker.

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And, I need to ask for a little help here.

Did the first page set-up get changed, or did I mess something up? Where there was once a lengthy list of topics - the Lost J's, for example, I now only see four? five? topics.

I fumbled around so much yesterday trying to put that blasted windmill pic up, that I don't know what else I hit. Computer savvy R Not Us.

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Woah. I started getting suspicious awhile ago, but man. Like Jenniferbug said, I was pregnant at the same time WW was and empathized. I admit to also fudging details (minor stuff, like my specific age by a year or two) to retain some anonymity, but mostly I'm just vague.

But wow.

Hey, wasn't there another fundraiser earlier this summer? I noticed that the poster in question really didn't pop in to this forum as much afterward. Details there pinged my radar. I figured I was just a cynical jerk.

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Woah. I started getting suspicious awhile ago, but man. Like Jenniferbug said, I was pregnant at the same time WW was and empathized. I admit to also fudging details (minor stuff, like my specific age by a year or two) to retain some anonymity, but mostly I'm just vague.

But wow.

Hey, wasn't there another fundraiser earlier this summer? I noticed that the poster in question really didn't pop in to this forum as much afterward. Details there pinged my radar. I figured I was just a cynical jerk.

 

Yep Seashell Lover who hasn't been in since.  Not saying that she was a WW type person but I got some red flags off that one. 

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I've been thinking about the WW situation all day. I am pretty skeptical by nature and would never have donated $$ but I am still disappointed with having been taken in to the degree that I was. Until s/he posted the hysterical out-of-character post about the homewrecker coming and wanting to take Maisie to some Chuck-E-Cheese thing or whatever, I was not suspicious. Thought her life sucked? Absolutely.  But until that radical change in tone and the follow-up post asking if any of the construction workers described by another poster were single, I did not give a second thought to his/her legitimacy. But those two posts were a huge departure in tone from anything that had come earlier and the next one I saw was the odd one about how "she" and Maisie were going to go it alone and were refunding the money from the gofundme (so as not to get charged with wire fraud, I presume).

 

I am both dumbfounded that it could possibly be worth ten months of the slow con s/he did here (and how many other sites?) and disappointed at the whole situation. I did not tune in the his/her posts until the forum was renamed to include Maisie's name and I am now wondering whether it was the sock that suggested that. When the renaming occurred, I went back and re-read all the posts and have followed him/her ever since.

 

People suck. Is what I am tempted to say, Then I remember all the kind and caring people here and I feel better. So thank you for the tentative hope.

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Scarlett45

This is a reminder that the Politics Policy is still in effect.

I understand with recent current events there may be a desire to discuss political social media posts of those in the Duggar realm- this is not the place for those discussions. If you believe someone has violated forum rules, report them, do not respond or engage.

Political discussion is not allowed in this forum- this includes Small Talk topics. Please stay in the spirit of the policy- I have noticed a tendency for some to follow the letter but not the spirit.

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