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Small Talk: The Prayer Closet


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We went to counselling for six weeks. He never seemed into it. 

 

WADR to your husband, I think he's pushed this into territory where how he feels about talking is kind of beside the point.

Edited by Julia
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Oh Wanderwoman - what to say. What's up with these men? He needs a slap upside the head, or as we say in my culture, a "zetz". You have not let us know if you have support from friends, family, etc. I hope so. We are here for you as much as we can be and as much as you want us to be. If you can muster up the energy, you keep going to counseling. Sending some extra energy to you.

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Thank you, all.

We went to counselling for six weeks. He never seemed into it. I feel like there are two sides of him locked in a battle for his personality. I gave him so many encouragement and thanks for providing for us when I was pregnant and then during Maisie's NICU stay. He told the counsellor he felt abandoned by my choice to take Maisie back to the hospital we started at, instead of staying at the one that almost killed her. What grown man feels "abandoned" by that? He also said that he's feeling too much pressure from work, M's needs, and my needs to such an extant that he feels he "gets nothing". Well, Jesus! After four hours of therapy, sign classes, volumes of paperwork for M's medical calendar, and cancer, I just don't have the energy to be sexual or pamper him. I am trying to see it from his view but I have an internal monologue that says, "Man up, Man."

Well, it appears that in this crucible his true worth has been shown. Man Up, indeed. Marriage has a way of eventually showing a true self. I try not to run down a spouse because you got married because you loved and trusted him. But he was not the person you believed he was and not the support you needed. I am so sorry this is happening to you.

 

You are good mom and a good person and it will get better.

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Oh Wanderwoman, there is no good reason in the universe that you and your sweet Maisie should be in the middle of this awful and undeserved hurricane. Your husband sounds determined to feed the storm, but you clearly have such strength and grit (even though I know you don't always believe that). And I have no doubt that, damn winds notwithstanding, you will be able to find a calm spot in the midst of this rotten vortex for you and your Maisie. Warmest {{{{{}}}} and healing light from me to both of you.

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Wanderwoman, I am so, so sorry for what you are going through. I just wish I could scoop both you and our Maisie up and take you home with me so I could take care of you. Full frontal hugs! As many previous posters said, remember you have an online community behind you that supports the heck out of you!

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Hugs, Wanderwoman.

 

My advice may be a bit different from everyone else's: find your bitchiest, angriest friend and ask her to screen mean lawyers for you. The meaner the better. Go with the one who's so mean you feel guilty about hiring him/her. Then turn him/her loose on your husband and don't look back.

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Wow Wanderwoman. What a piece of shit he is! He didn't sign on for this? What? It's called "living". Sue him for child support, sue him for alimony. Garnish his wages and burn his clothes! Where is Lorena Bobbit when you need her anyway? So sorry you are going through this.

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I am only an occasional poster here, but I am an enthusiastic reader. I just want to add my good wishes to everyone who is going through difficult times right now. I'm not a religious person, but I do think that good thoughts and wishes, even from a stranger thousands of miles away, can be helpful.

 

Please just know that whatever your problems (and some of the ones here are just heartbreaking and move me to tears), there are those of us reading and hoping that your bad times turn around.

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Wow Wanderwoman. What a piece of shit he is! He didn't sign on for this? What? It's called "living". Sue him for child support, sue him for alimony. Garnish his wages and burn his clothes! Where is Lorena Bobbit when you need her anyway? So sorry you are going through this.

 

"You want stress? I'll show you stress. You think you know what stress is, but you have no idea. Not. A. Clue. You're about to learn, though, and you can't back out of this stress, you worthless turd." Your lawyer needs to think that that statement is way too nice.

 

As of 2009, Lorena Bobbit was in a happy relationship with another man and the mother of a toddler. She still works in hair salons in the Washington DC area and occasionally makes appearances at fundraisers for domestic violence prevention groups, though she otherwise tries to keep out of sight.

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To all that responded to my Alzheimer's post. I love you for your insight and support. I will respond later (if I remember haha. I have to laugh or else I will jump a bridge) but I need to address Wanderwoman now, I only have a few minutes. First of all, the fact that you are posting means you have survived your worst days 100%. I was with HFC I was so mad at your hubby when I read your post. He is an ass. And I say that with respect for you and experience of the same thing. My hubby withdrew during both of my complicated pregnancies and after the births I thought we were headed for divorce and bankruptcy within one year both times (well actually DURING the 2nd pregnancy he told me after the birth he was out and would share custody of our oldest but basically the 2nd child was mine. WTF? He did go with me to MRI and other visits ,yes I had to have those while pregnant). So I was dealing with the prospect of being a divorced mom of two, one with possible special needs, DURING pregnancy. I could not even "fight" him on it because I was so worn down. I took one day at a time and eventually he came out of his asshole phase and we are still married and he loves our second daughter as much as our first and is a great father. I will never ever tell our daughters about this dark periods. During these periods he hinted he was fustrated he couldn't help me but it wasn't till years later he told me that he believed that he was the cause of the birth defects of both daughters (and the twins we lost before them) because of exposure to things while he was in the military. So I guess divorce was his escape from this? DOESNT MAKE SENSE TO ME FOR BETTER OR WORSE AND ALL THAT. Where was my escape? And the girls are his flesh and blood. I get the two personalities you mention. I took a year for his good one to win. And I'm grateful for that. - --- I know women are the stronger sexes. A friend of a friend was in a car accident and emerged a quadapegic . Her best friend/husband told her "I'm out, I didn't sign up for this" and left her. What the fuck men??? I pray the good in your husband emerges soon. I know he was a good man at one point because you married him. Stay strong I promise things will start to get better. Even if you don't think you have an ounce more of strength it will come to you. I hope you have help close by. If you need a listening ear you have many friends here that will listen to you 25/7. PM us for our numbers. We are here for you to the extend you want us. Let us know how to help you. XOXO please give Maisie a kiss from me.

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Wanderwoman: I am truly sorry that your husband is acting like a real a-hole, and I hope that he will right this ship and turn it around. Whatever happened to "For better or worse"? I hate that you are being abandoned in light of everything you are going through and I wish I could pull up a chair and just listen to you talk and offer my support without giving advice. Sucks.

Readalot and Everyone who fears Alzheimer's and senile dementia: My heart goes out to you as well. This is my biggest fear also. I have noticed some memory issues with me that scare me, and I also have ADD. I don't know if this runs in my family because I was adopted as an infant, but I have a dear, dear aunt who passed away about 10 years ago and she had Alzheimer's and I watched how it robbed her of her golden years. I get emotional thinking about it. She was an incredible woman and a force to be reckoned with. She and my uncle put me through college and provided me with love and support when my parents abandoned me. She was smart, funny and generous. She was a high school principal, had a PhD, was an international speaker, and even ran for mayor in a major west coast city and lost by less than a thousand votes! She was humble and never got too big for her britches. Man, I miss her!

It runs in her family and she knew she would get it, her mother, aunt, and her 2 older sisters all had it. My cousin, her only daughter, was tested and she indeed will go the way her mother, grandmother and 2 aunts all did.

The Notebook may be my all-time favorite movie, in the theater with my husband I wept and held in those deep sobs you get that once you start you don't know how to stop with the snot and everything. Mr. Blossom squeezed my hand tight and we got to the car and we both sobbed, okay *I* sobbed, he cried a little, then made a promise that I hope he'll keep. I know that sounds cheesy, but it was one of those moments, you know?

Have any of you read any of Dr. Daniel Amen's books, like "Change Your Brain, Change Your Life" and "Change Your Brain, Change Your Body" & "Heal ADD"? He advocates a lot of holistic things you can do to stave off Alzheimer's. He shills his seminars and books on PBS, whatever, but he gives really great recommendations that actually work and he's sorta inspiring. I have a couple of his books.

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I'm so sorry wanderwoman, you of all people shouldn't have to be going through this right now.  Add me to the list of people who thinks that your husband is taking the easy way out and that he should just man up.  There was no way that anyone could have foreseen Maisie's medical problems and your cancer.  You have always made decisions that are in Maisie's best interests and if he can't see that, he is a fool. Being "abandoned" by your choice to move hospitals (which really should be a very obvious one) is petty.  I know that you are trying to see it from his point of view but it doesn't seem like he is doing the same.  I can understand that he is frustrated and upset but doesn't he see that you are too? 

Marriage is "for better or for worse" and if he isn't prepared to see this out with you, quite frankly he doesn't deserve you.

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IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH! 

 

I'm so mad I could spit. This man is being completely irrational and unreasonable. Get a lawyer and call his bluff. The lawyer need only be on retainer. I think it might take YOU being out of character for him to see what a colossal ass he's being. 

 

FFSH from NoCal (home of the earthquake earlier today). :)

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"You want stress? I'll show you stress. You think you know what stress is, but you have no idea. Not. A. Clue. You're about to learn, though, and you can't back out of this stress, you worthless turd." Your lawyer needs to think that that statement is way too nice.

 

I love my Bella.  Meet my 'lil friend....

 

HOW (seriously???) is leaving helping him cope with stress???  WW already identified that money is tight.  Is living under a bridge going to improve his stress level?  Are medical bills going to evaporate because he isn't at HOME???  GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Oh wow, what I wouldn't GIVE to have this whole group of middle aged tiger lilies have this guy backed into a corner for about 5 minutes.  (I got first dibs, I'm organizing this virtual posse!!!)
 

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I'm on the posse!!!  I love your plan.  Nothing I like more than a bit of get even!

 

Bella, hurray.  Post of the day, week, month, and year.  Yeah, that's the lawyer everyone wants.

 

Uh, the posse just won't get caught.

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IN SICKNESS AND IN HEALTH! 

 

I'm so mad I could spit. This man is being completely irrational and unreasonable. Get a lawyer and call his bluff. The lawyer need only be on retainer. I think it might take YOU being out of character for him to see what a colossal ass he's being. 

 

FFSH from NoCal (home of the earthquake earlier today). :)

 

1000% agree. The 'in sickness and in health' line is not there by accident, or to pad the marriage vows. You don't get to quit when the journey suddenly gets tougher - you have to keep moving forward as best you can. I also think this idea - "I think it might take YOU being out of character for him to see what a colossal ass he's being" - absolutely SAYS IT ALL. He needs to see that you are both having a very difficult time. Some of the reasons for this you share, some you don't. But if you work together as a team, you can survive even the unsurvivable. It has been done before.

 

Emerson said: What lies behind us, and what lies before us, are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.  God bless you wanderwoman - I hope you can feel all the warm strong arms of everyone here engulfing you with health, strength and power.

Edited by Wellfleet
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Hi all I am still here but I got a job and I am very busy so I can not be here as much as I would like to. I have talking to the kids counselor I will not be adoptiing my soon to be 3 grandkids. It would be very confusing for them to have me go from granmom  to mommy after what they have gone through. When the time comes I will be getting permanent guardianship and custody until all 3 grandkids are 18.

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Congrats, SeaShell, those kiddos are lucky to have you!

 

Wanderwoman, there are no words. I just want to shake your husband until his teeth rattle and ask him what the hell he's thinking. I'm not married, never have been, but from what I've seen marriage is a partnership and it's not a guarantee of lifetime easiness and happiness. It seems like you are the one doing all of the compromising, all of the effort to fix things, all of the effort to make him feel good, and you're getting nothing in return. And on top of all of this, you're battling cancer. I hope everyone in his life is looking at him and his choices in disbelief and shaking their heads at his selfishness. And I hope he feels like the asshole he's acting like.

 

Life can be a bitch and apparently so can husbands, sometimes.

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Seashell you are an amazing grandma.

 

Two things: In my case, life is a bitch, and so is my one sister-in-law and two-where were you people when my in-laws were being major pain in the butts because they did not want to deal with my husband's illness and treated me like crap.

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Thank you. My husband is doing well after three years of dialysis and eleven years since his transplant. I am now dealing with my own medical problems. I go in for a stress treadmill test on 8/31 due to an abnormal EKG last month and family history of premature heart disease and heart related deaths in my dad's side of the family. I had a treatment to zap away my thyroid cells almost three years ago. The treatment took, but I am still feeling like crap.

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Hi all I am still here but I got a job and I am very busy so I can not be here as much as I would like to. I have talking to the kids counselor I will not be adoptiing my soon to be 3 grandkids. It would be very confusing for them to have me go from granmom  to mommy after what they have gone through. When the time comes I will be getting permanent guardianship and custody until all 3 grandkids are 18.

Seashell every day you amaze me, you really are the most unselfish person i know.

Edited by amitville
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Wow, so much heavy stuff here for so many.  My heart goes out to those of you suffering, or who are watching loved ones suffer.

 

Wanderwoman, I don't even know what to say.  I am glad your health is stable and that Maisie is doing well, but I am so, sorry to hear about your husband's decision.  It has been a horrible year for your family, and I would really like to give him the benefit of the doubt, that he's not just an awful person, but that this is some kind of depression manifesting itself as total jackassery.  I agree with the others here that you do whatever it is you need to do to take care of yourself and Maisie -- legally, physically, emotionally, and otherwise. 

 

For what it is worth, Mr. Chicken and I were in marital counseling years ago.  It was awful, and after a couple of months, thing were actually much worse, not better.  We were quite literally on the brink of divorce, and I was apartment hunting.  Of course, we weren't dealing with a child (let alone one with special needs), cancer, and financial stress all the at the same time, and in no way is it a comparable situation to yours, but after several months of weekly sessions, things improved dramatically when I really and truly didn't see any way possible for things to be salvaged.  Apparently, this is common for couples in counseling.  There may indeed be hope yet -- IF that is what YOU want.  Take care of yourself.  Sending hugs...

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Bigskygirl, good luck on your stress test! And I'm sorry your in-laws suck. Mine do too. If anything ever happens to my husband, I've decided I will only date men whose parents are deceased and who have no siblings LOL!

We got good news yesterday that dear friends of ours are expecting twins in the spring! They've had a long struggle with infertility and it has been heartbreaking to witness. She's only about 7 weeks along so we're hoping for a healthy pregnancy.

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bigskygirl, PM me! I am pretty much an endocrinologist without the medical degree at this point--I had 10 years of thyroid mess and I finally educated myself to the point where I tell my doctor what tests to run and what meds to give me and I'm finally feeling good again. Thyroid problems are a bitch and if your doc isn't in the know, you're going to continue to suffer and you shouldn't have to.

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Seashell you are an amazing grandma.

 

Two things: In my case, life is a bitch, and so is my one sister-in-law and two-where were you people when my in-laws were being major pain in the butts because they did not want to deal with my husband's illness and treated me like crap.

1. Life's a bitch and so is adulthood sometimes. 2. Sorry about you having to support your hubby with non-supportive in-laws. 3. Hope you get good news after your stress test. My husband is one of 4, 3 of them, including my hubbs, all have heart issues. Thank goodness for modern medicine!

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WANDERWOMAN, more of a lurker but a sometimes poster and you and Maisie are the reason why I am here!

I Popped into this forum right after she was born and just kept coming back to follow your progress. Started reading all about the Duggars and still haven't ever seen more than 20 minutes of one show. The group of posters here are just so wonderful. I am so sad this is happening to you and your daughter, neither of you deserve it at all. I still remember when you called your husband your rock and I was so happy to know that you had him by your side. After reading your recent post I immediately thought of this country western song you should play to him....

Darryl Worley, Sounds Like Life To Me

Just really hope that both of you get through this together.

Edited

Edited by NoThyme
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wow - -so much going on since i wasn't able to sign on here and post. but now i can and i will!

 

amongst the ever growing sadness here, i just want to say to each of you in cirsis, DONT GIVE UP!  your feelings are real and as for WW, so are her hubby's whether we approve or not. we can only pray and hope that with time, he will regain his senses and be the husband and father that is needed. having walked miles in a life of unbelieveable turmoil (i'd be scared to write it all down), i feel like i have made it through and can speak with knowledge that sometimes just getting up and drinking that cup of coffee is an accomplishment.

 

for all of you going through so much right now, you are each so fortunate to have emotional support from the great folks here on this forum. let that carry you over the rough parts knowing that people do care and will extend a hand when you need it. hoping i dont sound preachy but i really enjoy the offers of support and caring that i see here. there were times when it would have changed my world to have that!

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I appreciate the reminder that everyone's human, but I think right at the moment, it's inappropriate to place the burden on the woman battling cancer and exhaustion and caring for a post-operative infant to be responsible for being understanding about her husband's hypothetical feelings while he's walking out. That's what counselors, who know the situation from both sides, are paid to do.

WADR.

Edited by Julia
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EGGGGS-ACKLY, Julia!!!  Can't say any more, since I admitted to being all "Bugsy Moran" or some mobster this morning

:( 

But I may have to later - or I think my head is going to explode

Edited by Happyfatchick
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WW:  You've always been my favorite poster on this whole forum.  Your insights and biting cut-to-the-chase have never been matched since you haven't been able to post regularly.  I miss it, but I understand.  You have had SUCH a for %#*@ life (except for Maisie!!) I don't know how you keep it together.  Someone posted upthread that sometimes waking up and drinking that cup of coffee IS surviving.  There is comfort in anonymity, but sometimes it would be SUCH a comfort to me (to US) if we could DO something tangible.  Babysit a minute (I'm a good, squishy grandma!).  Bring you something tasty for dinner.  Listen to you.  Drive you to the doctor and sit there waiting for you.  Buy you an ice cream cone.  I wish, I pray that your roller coaster ride ends soon, and that you find yourself on a level playing field.  You know that really AWFUL game in the Olympics - curling - the most BORING sport ever conceived?  I hope your life turns into THAT at some point.  You need a good long stretch of BORING, followed by a good long stretch of something exciting.  No more bombshells for you.  We understand you can't possibly post every day, your hands are full of life.  But I do hope you come here and soak up the good wishes and hugs at least once a day. 

 

Seashell:  I, too, think that you're making wise and lasting decisions regarding the children.  And YAY (I think!) for getting a job.  (I guess that's a good thing, right?) 

 

BigSky:  What a buncha poop heads for your inlaws not to want to face your husbands illness, but not to be supportive of you either.  I'll send Guido.

 

Jellybeans:  It sounds like you had a breakup recently - and you already were not having the best time.  I hope things improve for you soon, and that you find your peace.  Are you still playing with the neighbor's baby?  If it helps any, I hope your ex runs out of gas tomorrow.

 

Readalot:  Don't stop talking because all of us started talking at once.  Keep up with us, we want to know how you are.

 

Bella:  You rock!  I'm thinking you may be the baby daughter I accidentally left on the porch of the First Baptist Church (of wherever you're from) - or the police station, I forget.  (Where was it, again?)  I can explain everything.  (Unless it was a dumpster where I accidentally left you - I can't explain that).   Seriously, sometimes you say things that so mirror my own mind, it's a little scary.  [but considering I recently admitted to being a certified charter member of southerngirlsmafia.com (actually the ONLY member - it's a relatively new organization), it occurs to me it's probably scarier for YOU than me if I'm your real mother.  hehe!]

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Happyfatchick, you are simply the BEST. You make reading here warm & fuzzy & fun and all the things I would think Internet forums aren't.

I, too, wish the best for everyone here going through several of life's rough patches all at once. As I said after I was suckerpunched reading Teri Maxhell's how to handle "unwanted feelings" BS, I will listen to you vent, hand you Kleenex, refill your wine glass, and order that dioxin to put in your nasty SO's coffee everyday...the best I can do here is sympathize, empathize, and send virtual (but FF) hugs.

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Liz, I responded to that because I, too, just "discovered" the Maxwells' school of theology.  SCARY STUFF!!!  I moved my response to the Fellowship thread because it was lengthy - but after I did, I kinda wish I hadn't, because people were still talking about the latest Bates wedding and I interrupted. 

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^^^^^^^^Thank you Wellfleet for the calming balm that was needed in this place today. 

You are Obi Wan;  I might be a little bit Soprano

 

IMO, the world needs ALL kinds of people, Happy. Plenty of room - and need - for ALL our skills... :>) 

 

Edited to add - And the sooner we all learn that, the better!

Edited by Wellfleet
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Ok friends, I need advice! I found out this morning that my mother in law applied for a job at the daycare my daughters attend. The center director told me this when I dropped off my 2 year old today.

Here's the problem: she is terrible with children. Truly awful. She doesn't talk to my 2 year old when we see them or play with her or anything like that- and my daughter is capable of carrying on a conversation and playing imaginary games. The few times she has watched her for us, she turns on the TV (to what she wants to watch) and lets my daughter run around doing whatever she wants. Even when she was younger, she would never feed my daughter and while she would change diapers, she's clearly uncomfortable with it (which is fine, but then don't expect me to ask you to babysit my girls when you're not comfortable meeting their basic needs). We don't ask her to watch my daughter anymore and she has yet to even hold my newborn. My daughter cries when she comes over because she doesn't like being left with her (which she doesn't do when left at daycare or with my parents or when we've left her with friends of ours).

But how do I express that and not create family drama? I did tell my daughter's teachers (who I know pretty well), but the director is new and I don't know her well, so I don't know that she wouldn't pass along what I've said. My husband doesn't know she applied, and pretty much stays out of it when I mention why I'm not comfortable with her watching our kids. I would honestly consider pulling my girls out of daycare and putting them in another center if she is hired - that's how strongly I feel about this. Not to mention, part of sending them to a center is so they learn to be with adults who aren't family who will cater to them and hover over them.

And the mean part of me suspects that she only applied so that she would get to see my kids all the time, since we currently limit her access to them so much. My in laws have a habit of showing up places they know we'll be and latching onto us, so we can't have family outings in our town without them tagging along.

I really feel I should say something before she is hired, but obviously that could lead to big problems with my in laws and husband. Any advice on how to approach it and what to say??

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Hmmmm, JenniferBug, wonder if you could privately share your concerns with the director. Your MIL wouldn't have to know. I doubt they'd want to risk losing a customer (and potentially more) over this. And your MIL's "experience" (or lack of it) with kids may stand between her and a job in childcare. Saying "I'm a grandma and I love kids" shouldn't be all they're looking for. It's never pleasant when these situations involve family. I wish you luck!

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Ok friends, I need advice! I found out this morning that my mother in law applied for a job at the daycare my daughters attend. The center director told me this when I dropped off my 2 year old today...

 

What job is she applying for? It may not be direct childcare, in which case she may be competent to do it. Are you happy enough with this daycare that you'd be unhappy to leave if she got the job? Are there alternatives? Because you can simply explain about wanting them to have exposure to non-family environments and move them.

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Typically the turnover in daycare is pretty high - if she got hired, she won't last long because she's obviously not equipped mentally to deal with the daily challenge of children. They wouldn't likely put her in the room with your daughters (either of them). Just to save face in the family, I probably wouldn't say anything, really. She's not going to work out anyway, and it won't be your fault. Even IF they put her in a room with the older one, she can't pay attention to YOUR child to the exclusion of others, she'd get in trouble. However, if they put her in the baby room, you might say a word to the director about her aversion to diaper changing - since that's a pretty large part of daily routine!

Has she any prior experience in a daycare facility?

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I agree with happyfatchick. I have come to the conclusion , over many many years that most situations resolve themselves if I stay out of it and let things play out. The minute I start trying to "fix" it is when the troubles begin. If your mother in law is indeed hired she won't last long.

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