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S04.E13: Further West

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Well, I'll miss Cheyenne--and Psalms.  I guess next season they'll go back and forth between Cheyenne and California because I'm guessing we haven't seen the last of Durant.  Cullen being out West should be interesting though, especially interacting with the Chinese. 

 

I'm glad Mickey made it out of there alive, and it looks like Eva has finally got some of her mojo back.  She'll make a good madam.  The thing I don't understand is, if the Dead Rabbits were cutting up the women, then why was the head Dead Rabbit (don't remember his name) accompanying her and Mickey?  I guess it was his buddies and not him doing the cutting?

 

Speaking of the Dead Rabbits, I don't even know why they were introduced to the story.  They were pretty useless and did nothing to stop Campbell.   

 

I never cared much for Naomi but if Cullen wants to find her and his son, then I hope he does.  He's suffered enough.

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Was there any visible evidence of smallpox on the guys Cullen found at Ft. Smith? Who / what  killed them if not smallpox? Bandits would have taken the horse and ate the chickens.

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I kind of liked how this all ended compared to such a lousy season. I'm look king forward to see what the next season brings. I'm sorry they veered so far away from the original building of the railroad in the first season and ended up with this crazy stuff and all the good original characters are gone, but I will watch to see what happens, how they end it.

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Leaving Cheyenne is probably the first positive step for Eva's character, and she looked terrific in her final scene! I'm assuming that their next gig will be near where Cullen is working. I hope this means we've seen the last of Campbell? I knwo it probably makes me a bad person, but I was wishing that Naomi and William might have been taken by smallpox, and that the final episodes might allow Cullen to just move on, especially since their returning to the Fort was not his doing.

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I liked this episode better then some of the others too.  Loved Eva!  And please remember to never fall in love with Cullen!  Bad news.  

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I knwo it probably makes me a bad person, but I was wishing that Naomi and William might have been taken by smallpox, and that the final episodes might allow Cullen to just move on, especially since their returning to the Fort was not his doing.

I kind of feel ashamed for admitting it, but I felt that way too, although I would have hoped that the son survived.  He could have moved on with the son, but not with Mrs. Sourpuss.

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I didn't understand this episode much.

- So the Ft Smith Mormans died by smallpox ... but the ones we saw at Fort Smith didn't look like they had smallpox, and some clearly were stabbed or attacked. And one dead body appeared to be a Native American. So Indians attacked, but left a horse and livestock? And some people left but others stayed behind? None of this makes sense.

- Left with no other option, Cullen decides he wants Naomi after all. So he goes to look for them, taking a month to get to Salt Lake City. Once there, he decides to halt his search (and depend on his new boss to find her) and stay a while and work on the railroad? So his need for Naomi isn't burning, because help or no, a man like Cullen wouldn't stop looking. And he didn't seem to have a desire for revenge against Durant. In fact, they parted amicably. So why now settle down and work on a railroad? To meet The Swede, of course, but that is plot wanking, not logic.

- Rather than stay in a more civilized Cheyene, Eva decides to hit the road with a man who fondled her when she was weak, and his crew of women beaters? I thought Eva was trying to bring herself up in a society that disciminates against her. But she will give up on that desire and instead leave with thugs. And why does Mickie give her a gun belt? I assume that sympolized she was a partner, like the Dead Rabbitts? Couldn't she have bought a gun at any time on her own? 

- Does Joseph Smith know The Swede murders people in order to get Smith what he wants? Surely he suspects it. So is the show saying Smith is no better than Cullen?

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I knwo it probably makes me a bad person, but I was wishing that Naomi and William might have been taken by smallpox, and that the final episodes might allow Cullen to just move on, especially since their returning to the Fort was not his doing.

I kind of feel ashamed for admitting it, but I felt that way too, although I would have hoped that the son survived.  He could have moved on with the son, but not with Mrs. Sourpuss.

 

Party of three! I'm already feeling a little nauseous at the thought of the last season as The Search for Naomi. If they had written her as a loving partner to Cullen who had to be taken back to the fort because the camp had become too dangerous, that would be one thing. But they wrote her as an annoying, disapproving nag who bolted when Cullen's back was turned, and I'm supposed to hope for a joyful reunion? If that's Cullen's happy ending, then I feel sorry for him. It would be just like the HoW writers to kill off the more interesting love interests of Cullen and saddle him with the one loser. Or else Cullen will find them dead or Naomi remarried in the series finale.  Or maybe  he'll find them just as he's dying of something. As you can tell, I question the writers' ability to deliver a happy or even satisfactory ending.

 

Cullen joining the opposing railroad team will be interesting, and a good way to keep the actors we already know and love on the show, as Cullen's competitors.  Durant once more becomes Cullen's enemy, and the Swede (sigh) is on his way to stir things up. Clearly the Swede is the end-game villain. A new camp gives Cullen a whole new litany of people who will dislike him, challenge him, and make things difficult for him, and that's a proven formula that works. The early seasons of the show were the best IMO, when Cullen was making a name for himself at HoW and the railroad was front and center. More of that, please.

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After writing this show off and ignoring the last couple of episodes, curiosity and a small dose of hope brought me back for the finale.  Despite what happened with Ruth, and Louise's horribly conceived affair with Campbell, I liked the way the finale went.  It seemed to return the show to its roots.  Cullen's motivated to find his family and have a future with them, if only to spite his bitter mother-in-law.  That exchange before she died was chilling.  Neither of them gave an inch by way of forgiveness or understanding.  He's back working the railroad, allied with a man with a vision, who might be slightly less corrupt than Durant (but less fun)  I don't mind Naomi (I think she has plenty of reasons to be disenchanted) and I want to see where her storyline goes.  

 

The Fort Smith part was a bit odd.  It looked like it had been attacked.  I guess after the evacuation of the healthy, and the sick and those caring for them left for Salt Lake City, some stayed behind and were attacked?

 

I liked seeing Eva find her purpose, and the writing for Mickey has been odd this season so I'm willing to sweep that bath scene under the rug and forget it if Eva is.  I'm glad she's a partner and is staking her own future.  She looked great with the gunbelt on her hip and she'll treat her working girls well.  On the other hand, I am so sick of The Swede I found the show more enjoyable just muting his scenes.  I can't believe he's going to linger on until the end.  He should have died after killing Lily Bell.

 

I thought the show really lost its way this season, but I'll be back next season hoping to see Cullen do what he does best: get a railroad built despite everything life throws at him.  And if he wants another chance with Naomi and William, I'd like to see him get that win too.

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Party of three! I'm already feeling a little nauseous at the thought of the last season as The Search for Naomi. If they had written her as a loving partner to Cullen who had to be taken back to the fort because the camp had become too dangerous, that would be one thing. But they wrote her as an annoying, disapproving nag who bolted when Cullen's back was turned, and I'm supposed to hope for a joyful reunion? If that's Cullen's happy ending, then I feel sorry for him. It would be just like the HoW writers to kill off the more interesting love interests of Cullen and saddle him with the one loser. Or else Cullen will find them dead or Naomi remarried in the series finale.  Or maybe  he'll find them just as he's dying of something. As you can tell, I question the writers' ability to deliver a happy or even satisfactory ending.

Cullen joining the opposing railroad team will be interesting, and a good way to keep the actors we already know and love on the show, as Cullen's competitors.  Durant once more becomes Cullen's enemy, and the Swede (sigh) is on his way to stir things up. Clearly the Swede is the end-game villain. A new camp gives Cullen a whole new litany of people who will dislike him, challenge him, and make things difficult for him, and that's a proven formula that works. The early seasons of the show were the best IMO, when Cullen was making a name for himself at HoW and the railroad was front and center. More of that, please.

Hear, hear! I agree with this wholeheartedly. Cullen striving to reunite with prune-faced Naomi is not entertainment. I am actually scared to imagine how the writers will end this show. The stupid Swede will probably be the one left standing.

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I'm already feeling a little nauseous at the thought of the last season as The Search for Naomi. If they had written her as a loving partner to Cullen who had to be taken back to the fort because the camp had become too dangerous, that would be one thing. But they wrote her as an annoying, disapproving nag who bolted when Cullen's back was turned, and I'm supposed to hope for a joyful reunion? If that's Cullen's happy ending, then I feel sorry for him. It would be just like the HoW writers to kill off the more interesting love interests of Cullen and saddle him with the one loser. Or else Cullen will find them dead or Naomi remarried in the series finale.  Or maybe  he'll find them just as he's dying of something. As you can tell, I question the writers' ability to deliver a happy or even satisfactory ending.

Count me in the party too.  I admit I only half watched this only half paying attention because while I want to be done with the show after such an abysmally meandering season, there was a tiny part of me that wanted to see where they left it. 

 

I appreciate that they're at least paying lip service to the idea that this show was supposed to be about building the railroad and we want to see them make it to the end.  But knowing that they're going to be dragging out a final split season over more than a year and that that season is apparently going to be about even more of the Swede doing his best mustache twirling while Cullen searches for a mostly unlikeable woman he seemed to barely be able to tolerate doesn't feel like much of an inducement to come back.  Unless he's prepared to go full Mormon and stop being everything that he is, it's just going to end in more of her thin-lipped disappointment while he's always got one eye on the door.  At this point, I fully expect the series finale to be Cullen and the Swede killing each other after everyone else is dead to drive home the idea that there was never any point to any of it.

 

Eva looked the best she's looked since she was introduced way back in season one.  Beyond that, I didn't really understand the deal to travel on with the Dead Rabbits, who I thought were the same people beating the whores, or the point of the Dead Rabbits at all.  But like the beginning with whatever happened at Fort Smith, it's possible I was bored and wasn't paying attention.

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Its been a disappointing season in places for me. Some of the storylines of late have been a bit to far fetched to take to seriously. That "shotgun wedding" at the end of season 3 performed by the Swede marrying Cullen and Naomi. That whole Sidney Snow storyline which lead to Ruths demise. The idea of putting a badge on a child killer didn't make any sense at all. I still cant believe they wrote Ruth out the way they did. Didn't make any sense to me that Ruth wouldn't accept a pardon. I guess the suits just wanted the character gone. Never was a big fan of this Cullen/Naomi storyline but it appears that's where theyre headed. Hopefully they find some time next season to finish the railroad. Its been all but overlooked this season.

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Beyond that, I didn't really understand the deal to travel on with the Dead Rabbits, who I thought were the same people beating the whores, or the point of the Dead Rabbits at all.

I didn't understand traveling on with the Dead Rabbits either.  When Eva was talking to the whore who got cut, I thought Eva was going to tell Mickey that the Dead Rabbits weren't welcome as customers anymore.  And then later on they're all traveling together, smiling?  I just don't get it. 

Edited by Ohwell

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I don't see how they could be really married. Apparently Cullen and Naomi made an oath to one another.

They knew the Swede was an imposter. The writers are painting Cullen as an honorable man. Theyre making it

look like Naomi and the baby is all he has left. Hes lost his first family and most of his friends as well. Like Ruth they've taken everything away from him.

I guess that's all the writers need.

Edited by TwoSocks

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Does Joseph Smith know The Swede murders people in...

 

That's actually Brigham Young being portrayed there, but point taken.  Unless there is some revisionist history going on in the Mormon Church today, I can't imagine anything but a noisily unfavorable response to the portrayal of their leader as an accessory to wholesale murder.

 

I have to admit, when Bohannen shows up at the Fort, the first thing I thought of was the Swede on a rampage.  I swear, Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men must be a direct descendant of this guy.

 

In relation to my post from last week, I see they moved the gallows out of Main Street.

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I thought Kasha was wonderful in this episode.  I didn't really care for her character and it's sad that it took her final episode to see what a really great actress she is.  I was quite moved by her performance.

As for the rest of the show, I wish it was cancelled at the end of  this season.  What is the point of dragging out fourteen more episodes over two years? This show started going downhill for me after Lily was killed. It seemed the new showrunners, writers, producers or whoever have done nothing but alienate the original viewers.   The original premise of building the railroad has been all but forgotten. The theme of the week now seems to be who can we kill that can cause the most pain to Cullen. Really??    Someone needs to put him and this show out of its' misery now.

 

Two more years!?!???  I was under the impression next season was the last?  I actually think this season could have been the last because they are sending away or getting rid of all the characters.

Oh man, so is this either going to be Cullen on a two year quest to find his snippy mormon wife, or is he going to find her and then I'll have to watch her angry faces for two years?

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Was there any visible evidence of smallpox on the guys Cullen found at Ft. Smith? Who / what  killed them if not smallpox? Bandits would have taken the horse and ate the chickens.

 

The woman had smallpox, so I guess thats what it was, but it makes no sense, because at least one of the people in the town had their throat cut and someone else had been stabbed in the neck.  Unless smallpox makes people crazy and they start cutting throats?  Stabbing people and cutting throats for no real reason seems like the work of the Swede, but I don't know how he would be able to accomplish it.

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Season 5 is being broken into 2 parts. 2 mini seasons. 7 episodes will air next summer(2015). The final 7 episodes will air in the summer of 2016.

That sounds like a big mistake.  I like HOW, but I'm not dying for it.  Breaking Bad did something like that, and they almost lost me, I really, really really wanted to see how it ended, but if I don't care as much, I may totally forget HOW even exists by the time it rolls around (yeah, pun intended!)

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That sounds like a big mistake.  I like HOW, but I'm not dying for it.  Breaking Bad did something like that, and they almost lost me, I really, really really wanted to see how it ended, but if I don't care as much, I may totally forget HOW even exists by the time it rolls around (yeah, pun intended!)

 

I agree.  I think that's too much time for too little payoff.  Look, if this show were at the level of The Walking Dead, maybe it could be pulled off, especially with what the end of TWD is likely to bring.  But this show . . though I like it, will I remember everything I need to remember over such a long time with only a handful of episodes to see.  I mean if all next season is spent dwelling on finding Naomi, I really don't get it.  It's not monumental.  Frankly, the way this episode ended, it could have been the series finale.  After everything he's gone through, he's still going on with life and seeing his future laid in some beautiful scenery that was the last shot (and a great song, to boot).

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I agree.  I think that's too much time for too little payoff.  Look, if this show were at the level of The Walking Dead, maybe it could be pulled off, especially with what the end of TWD is likely to bring.  But this show . . though I like it, will I remember everything I need to remember over such a long time with only a handful of episodes to see.  I mean if all next season is spent dwelling on finding Naomi, I really don't get it.  It's not monumental.  Frankly, the way this episode ended, it could have been the series finale.  After everything he's gone through, he's still going on with life and seeing his future laid in some beautiful scenery that was the last shot (and a great song, to boot).

Exactly!  If I hadn't known for sure that this show had at least one more year, I would have thought that was a somewhat open series finale.  Maybe like AMC wanted to do a 2 hour movie to wrap it all up or something, but it would have been sufficient for a series finale.  But you're right, too little payoff.

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Someone mentioned that Cullen is in Salt Lake City -- I believe Cullen is in California with Collis Huntington and the Chinese railroad workers. Didn't Collis even say "Welcome to California"? It's unfortunate that the show skipped all that travel time, Cullen going from town to town looking for Naomi. I guess he ran out of money and was back at the railroad looking for a job.

 

I took the finale as an indicator that next season will reboot and get back to the railroad. Cullen working with the Union Pacific from the west, and Durant with the Central from the east. It seems like the series finale will be Promontory Summit in Utah, where the two railroads meet. The Transcontinental changed everything.

 

Eva had to go with Mickey and the Dead Rabbits because the railroad is moving on and she's a popular character.

 

I guess I'm the only one who liked Campbell as a character. But, he should be staying in Cheyenne to build his empire, and I'll miss him.

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In real life the two RRs went right by each other and continued to build in both directions, as they were being paid by the mile.  Quite a few "accidents" occurred with all that dynamite around, and DC finally decided to put an end to it with the choice of Promontory Point as the official meeting.  Maybe the show can get a few episodes out of that. 

My guess is that Eva sees a better chance with Mickey & Co. than with Campbell because of the nature of her profession.  Campbell wouldn't blink at closing her brothel down if the increasing civility of his new city (and territorial) empire made it worthwhile to do so.  with Mickey and on the edge of the world, she can still function.

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Is that what it takes to get away with murder on this show? Be a popular character. Does anyone else think both Eva and Mickey should answer for their crimes. They have both murdered. I guess that explains why the writers/producers decided to kill off Ruth. I knew there had to be a reason.

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Frankly, the way this episode ended, it could have been the series finale.

 

 

I agree. It also works as a season finale because it does feel like the beginning of the end for the show and Cullen's journey. Chinese railroad labor. Mountain scenery. Working for a different railroad. The 'Welcome to the great state of California' greeting. The Pacific Coast is in the offing. 

 

Does anyone else think both Eva and Mickey should answer for their crimes.

 

 

For my part, this being a TV show and not real life, I don't have much of a concern about whether Eva and Mickey should answer for their crimes. I honestly can't remember who Mickey killed off hand. His brother? As for Eva, I remember her killing her rapist - something I have no problem with at all. Can't remember if she killed anyone else. There's so much killing on this show, I've lost track of who murdered who in many cases. 

Edited by maplebrew
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I just marathoned this whole series on Netflix and holy crap, is it a frustrating show. It is so close to being good but then screws up. I liked that there are a variety of women on the show- Eva, Ruth and Lily are all different. I found out later that Dominique McElligott wanted out and that's why they killed Lily, but it was tremendously frustrating that she finally advances both with Cullen and finds new purpose with the railroad and she gets killed. By the damn Swede. 

 

Elam is a great character, and I guess Common wanted out, too. And now Ruth, who still had story left, I think, getting hanged. I think another poster phrased it perfectly, all these characters are sacrificed on the altar of Bohannon's suffering. 

 

And I hope because the Swede married Bohannon and Naomi it doesn't count and he just never finds her, because that character was dull and I just didn't care.

 

I think there is genuine story in how these little lawless outposts become real towns and how the West was settled and the railroad was a major part of that. But killing off interesting characters that tie into the beginning of the show isn't a great way to sustain it. At least replace them with interesting characters.

 

And Bohannon is really only interesting in relation to the other characters- I liked his bits with Lily, Elam and Ruth. He is really pretty, though. 

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