S10.E08: The Boys of Sudworth Place

[Old Dog]

I thought he was originally contracted to direct two episodes but now it's just one in the New Year now. It seems he asked to be released from directing this latest episode but the reason why is not known.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Old Dog

[Knittzu]

Two hundred and fourteen words. Wow. So Reid's entire contribution to the episode amounted to a mis-counted drabble.

[normasm]

Old Dog, my theory of why they don't think he's as popular is that he's not the kind of guy to be out there, promoting himself as a TV star, promoting his hit show, showing up at functions other than the ones his personal friends have connections to, generally not saying, "Look at me, i'm a star!"

 

I don't think we'll ever know why he didn't direct that show, and i'm happy to let it go if we get more Reid in the second half of the season.

[JMO]

 

I thought he was originally contracted to direct two episodes but now it's just one in the New Year now. It seems he asked to be released from directing this latest episode but the reason why is not known.

 

Not directing the question just to you, Old Dog, as you may not know.  But does anyone know if this is fact or conjecture?  I know the original plan for him to direct two episodes was fact, because it came out in an interview---don't remember if it was with him or another cast member---might have been JM.  But I haven't seen anything official about any of the rest---not the declining of this latest episode, nor the change in allotted episodes for directing.  

 

Is there anything about this that doesn't come from a discussion board?

[normasm]

There have been a couple of comments to this effect on the board.  Has this been announced, or are we just assuming it because he didn't direct in the first half of the year?

JMO, he was originally slated to direct the episode that turned out to be written by Kim (the boys of sudworth). They have already announced the directors through 10.14, "Hero Worship" which will shoot in December and air in early February. That's more than halfway through the 24 episodes, and Matthew has said he has a directing episode coming up in January. Unless they have him direct another one by mid-April, well...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Criminal_Minds_episodes

Edited November 23, 2014 by normasm

[Old Dog]

Old Dog, my theory of why they don't think he's as popular is that he's not the kind of guy to be out there, promoting himself as a TV star, promoting his hit show, showing up at functions other than the ones his personal friends have connections to, generally not saying, "Look at me, i'm a star!"

 

I don't think we'll ever know why he didn't direct that show, and i'm happy to let it go if we get more Reid in the second half of the season.

I don't know Normasm. He seems to always be at parties, fashion shows, red carpet events, film festivals - not all just for personal friends. He seems to have  more of a presence out and about than most of the other cast. I know he doesn't push himself into the limelight so much but there's no way they cannot be aware of his popularity.

[zannej]

Maybe they are unhappy that the two times he was on the Craig Ferguson show he didn't promote CM or talk about anything related to the show and ended up sort of looking like a dweeb because he was so nervous.

 

I've noticed he hasn't been back on the Craig Ferguson show again. Or maybe its an entirely different reason. I don't really know.

 

I will change the "more Reid" in the second half of the season to "good quality Reid" in the second half of the season. Although he might need more screentime for that to happen.

Edited November 23, 2014 by zannej

[normasm]

Still, zannej, CFS is a very minor show, compared with something like Ellen, which SM has been on multiple times, and I don't remember him talking up CM very much. All while showing his abs at least once per appearance (OK Shemar, you have a six-pack, congrats on that, put your shirt down, man!)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Is there anything about this that doesn't come from a discussion board?

 

I'm the first to admit that I'm the least aware of anything on social media about the show, except for the stuff that's discussed here. What I do think is that when EM is making statements about dividing up ice cream/screentime as if she's being even-handed when that's been proven to not be true (two hundred and fourteen words? really?) we're not likely to get the "real" story from anyone behind the scenes. Hell, we still don't know if JT's decision to leave was a mutual one or if she was just dissatisfied with how little she was being given to do, so she walked when she had the chance.

 

Edited to add: to a point, I guess that MGG not promoting the show on Ferguson's program could be seen as the "reason" they might be irked or whatever, but if that's the case then JLH shouldn't be getting nearly as much screentime as she has since she went on some late night show before the season premiere aired and didn't talk about CM at all.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[zannej]

Good point, normasm. I think the problem was that Matthew's appearance on CF -- other than the dancing-- was not something that would make people want to go watch the show. People watching Ellen but see Shemar and the shallow ones might want to go see the show because of his abs or something.. He was promoting himself. Matthew ended up seeming like a bit of an airhead-- which he really isn't. To be perfectly honest, if I had not known who Matthew was and never watched CM and I had watched the last Fergy ep he did, I would not have been impressed or interested at all. I don't think its his fault- the second time Lily Tomlin's time went over so Gube had hardly any time left, but I think it wasn't the best example of his talk show appearances. He seems to prefer to have other people with him to make him more comfortable.

 

Btw, was it discussed on this forum why the title was changed? I know on another forum that someone mentioned that Sutton was a real place or something and it was too close for legal reasons?

Edited November 24, 2014 by zannej

[JMO]

Thanks for all of the responses.  Your deductive reasoning makes sense, Normasm. 

 

I just don't like to waste energy getting excited (in either direction, up or down) about things that aren't real.  And I've seen too many things on social media that start out as opinion or conjecture, and end up being regarded as fact, simply based on the number of people repeating them.  Wish there was a 'snopes' for CM!

[Danielg342]

Btw, was it discussed on this forum why the title was changed? I know on another forum that someone mentioned that Sutton was a real place or something and it was too close for legal reasons?

According to the CM Wiki, it was legal reasons. Now, this is pure speculation, but “Sutton Place” is a hotel chain and likely they didn't want to be associated with being a place where molestations go down (since hotels and motels seem to be a popular choice for those). Hence why I think the name was changed to Sudworth.

Other possibility is that guys in New York- as “Sutton Place” is a neighbourhood there- got upset, but I think the hotel link is more likely.

[missmycat]

There's a couple of ladies on a forum I belong to whom seem to feel that CBS has some kind of research showing them that JJ is in great demand where as Reid is not. Neither one of these ladies are fans of JJ. They are as fed up with her as many of us on here are. One is a Reid fan and one is a Hotch Fan.

They've also had some experience in the television industry. One of the ladies use to work in it and one still does. 

 

I just find it hard to believe that AJ/JJ has a bigger fanbase than MGG/Reid does,but maybe it's been a case of her fans being more vocal and causing a greater stink on social media. And we know how much EM and her writers pay attention to social media. I'm convinced it's the reason why JJ is getting her stupid PTSD episode even after the EM said '200' was a closed chapter.

[ForeverAlone]

Nothing we have seen seems to point to AJ having a larger social media presence than Matthew, at least nothing I have ever seen. I mean, Matthew has a greater social media following on all social media networks and he is very much a Tumblr favorite as well. Yeah, AJ has her social media fans, but I don't think they are more than Matthew's, and I definitely don't think they are more passionate than Matthew/Reid fans. Sure AJ fans are very vocal on Facebook, but I bet we would hear more from Reid fans if Reid was actually featured more often, but since he is in the background, what is there to say about him except complain that there isn't more of him? But considering that many Facebook fans STILL whine for Emily and complain about whoever replaces her, I don't know how much influence they actually have over the course of the show.

 

It's not like there is a unified front when it comes to the Criminal Minds fandom either. I mean, yeah we have some outlets where the fans cheer everything the show does, but there are also plenty of forums that have been very critical of the direction of the show for years now. So Erica and the writers probably do whatever they want. 

[Drogo]

"I am made of cream.  Give me your coffee." 

"Babygirl, you're on speaker."

 

More, please. 

[MCatry]

I got used to visit Facebook to just watch the posts, because once I accidentally stumbled upon a poll made in CM CBS facebook page. The topic was something like 'Morgan or Reid' as your favourite agent. I remember quite a few comments were going for Reid more than for Morgan, and I though 'wow. That's weird. I always assumed most fans though Morgan was the eye candy'. Nevertheless, I decided to check that post a few days later, just to see how the voting was going on, and you know what? It disappeared. I couldn't find it, at all. I checked the entire timeline looking for it, because I couldn't believe I bookmarked the wrong page, and I swear I didn't, but while doing that I realise it was a very odd proportion of posts distributed among the characters. Then, I counted them. (I know, and you know Too, I have a thing for counting; i like numbers, because they don't lie).

The most promoted ones were Moore, Vangsness and Cook. This means that when you open the facebook timeline you will see mostly images of these characters, and now, of course, the new addition. I should probably find those results and update them.

Nevertheless, I've been reading that site comments.

Two years ago every single comment would be in favour of the show. Only rarely you would spot one or two complains, followed by a number of rabid, blindness defenders of CM, no matter what,

Then, last year some complains were more and more common.

now, virtually every post has comments pro and con the general direction of CM nowadays.

In my book, that is Huge.

And regarding the topics, I would highlight:

- JLH haters

-JLH lovers

-people complaining about the ones that ask for Prentiss

- people being bored by the stories

- people asking for more team work

And of course, the

-I love this show, in many variations.

There is not really much about

- JJ

- people only asking for Prentiss.

- Rossi

I wonder how they measure the size of a fan base, of any actor or actress...

[Knittzu]

The topic was something like 'Morgan or Reid' as your favourite agent. I remember quite a few comments were going for Reid more than for Morgan, and I though 'wow. That's weird. I always assumed most fans though Morgan was the eye candy'. Nevertheless, I decided to check that post a few days later, just to see how the voting was going on, and you know what? It disappeared.

 

 

I'm not surprised. Like, at all. These writers and showrunner don't like being told they're wrong and are happy to silence their critics. Pretty funny that it was their own poll that turned against them -- but they have the power to take care of little things like that, right?

 

Apparently the data they use to determine that AJ Cook is the bestest, most likable and beautiful actress ever is something called a "Q-Score," which I had been blissfully ignorant of before coming to this board. I read over some of the stuff on the Q-Score website and it's a lot of creepy corporate-speak: "Derived from our data collection model of the Favorites Concept, Q Scores identify the most enthusiastic consumers of a personality, character or licensed property, program, or brand. This measure of likeability is an important predictor of greater consumer involvement. The higher the incidence of favorites, the stronger is the fan base, or consumer franchise. When exposed to their favorites, the consumer has a greater likelihood to be more attentive, be more involved, have higher recall, and have a more positive image."

 

Uh, okay. Can you imagine, say, Breaking Bad deciding to replace Walter White with some obscure bland background character because they somehow obtained a higher Q-score? Oh and Q-scores are determined by "dividing the percentage of people who peg a performer or show as one of their favorites by the percentage of people who have heard of the entity in the first place" -- so, this legion of JJ lovers might not even be watching the show. It's entirely possible that most of them have only HEARD of Criminal Minds, but recognize the bland blond chick, and there you go. Your most popular character who clearly deserves the lead slot!

[alexvillage]

 

Q-Score website and it's a lot of creepy corporate-speak:

You are brave for doing all this research.

I can make an educated guess, based on how society in general behaves, that:

white, skinny, blond, hetero, cis woman / white, strong, macho, hetero, cis man

always win.

[zannej]

What is "cis"?

[alexvillage]

cis = cisgender. 

It is when a person born male identifies as male, a person born female identifies as female. It is not sexuality, it is how people experience themselves. Some people are trans, some are fluid, some are cis.

[MCatry]

I stumbled with that article about the most and least liked actors and actress of this fall (the one that is based on those so called Q scores).

 

a) The sample size, for a country such as the USA, is ridiculously small. 1800 participants? That sample decides who is more recognizable along the entire country, so someone can sell more shampoo, or cereals, or whatever?  (The biggest mystery is how to believe in Q scores, a matter of faith)

b) I wonder how they stratified the samples according to all the parameters they claim to take into account (such as age, sex, income, education level)

c) At least regarding those articles, it seems just another case of misuse of statistics in order to show something they want us to believe.

 

But I work with statistics. So I know when I'm being lied...

[ForeverAlone]

I think the Q scores listed in that article were the Q scores for The Wrap, and not the official industry wide Q scores used. Apparently there are a wide variety of surveys out there, and I imagine that any survey that would be used to justify actual salaries would be more scientific with a larger sample size.