S04.E08: Point of Origin

[DrLar]

Or Samaritan changes priorities, say, Dominic is under attack by Elias? and recalls Martine immediately for assistance.

[atua]

I don't understand why Martine decided to shoot Shaw right then and there at all (if that's what it was, we haven't seen what transpired, of course). That's just dumb. A smart operative would try to follow Shaw discretely and see if she would lead to the other members of Team Machine.

This was undoubtedly the most stupid thing I've seen in PoI in awhile. Why would any non brain dead operative just start shooting in front of a couple dozen witnesses when there're a lot more discrete methods to take care of Shaw? That's regardless of whether Martine's there for the MARV vials or to track Team Machine. Actually, given that Greer has mugshots for every member of TM, Martine should have recognised Shaw from the second, cleaned up image from the security footage. Unless, Greer never showed those to her, but then how is she suppose to do her auxiliary duty for Samaritan if he doesn't tell her who to look for?

 

Scarface, however, might want to watch his back.

Elias getting off scot-free next episode would turn Dominic into a joke, so I think Scarface might be sacrificed. I know Elias isn't remotely a good guy, but more importantly than good or evil, he's a much more entertaining character to me than Dominic.

 

Actually, as the Machine's high priestess and the writers' most favored character, it seems to me that the death which would pay off the air of death being on the table and the writers' mythic fearlessness thing would pretty clearly be Root.

She's my vote for most likely first Team Machine casualty against Samaritan.

 

Or Samaritan changes priorities, say, Dominic is under attack by Elias? and recalls Martine immediately for assistance.

Why would Samaritan help Dominic? It doesn't care about Elias either way, and already has Greer/Martine/Decima to handle TM.

[Netfoot]

Root is the Machine's avatar in the world of meat.  I believe she will do all she can to preserve Root's functionality.  I honestly don't see Root as threatened until we see the machine grooming a possible replacement.

[Julia]

Root is the Machine's avatar in the world of meat.  I believe she will do all she can to preserve Root's functionality.  I honestly don't see Root as threatened until we see the machine grooming a possible replacement.

All the more reason she's the poster girl for anyone can die.

I doubt it's going to happen - I think that concept was rolled out when the producers realized what a widely poorly viewed decision killing Carter to make way for their new actresses was - but if they wanted to prove that they really are unbound to the wishes and/or expectations of the audience, the Machine's avatar is exactly the next one who should go.

JMO, of course.

Hopefully, if they are planning on taking out Elias (a character popular with viewers of the first two seasons, so kind of not a stretch there) they'll let the war with Dominic play out a little first. I don't so far see Dominic carrying an arc by himself.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Julia

[stealinghome]

If the writers are truly committed to their "anyone can die" thing, the next death should actually be Reese. Pretty much *everyone* is pegging Root (or to a lesser degree Shaw, but mostly Root) as the next death. Neither would be shocking at all. Offing Reese, however, would be totally stunning...

...but we all know they're not going to kill Reese, which is why the "anyone can die" stuff is BS, imo. They're not going to kill Finch, because he's the one character the show really can't work without, and they're not going to kill Reese if for no other reason than CBS would faint with horror at the idea of killing the handsome straight white male lead. Realistically the only ones who could die are Shaw, Root, or Fusco. That's not "anybody," and it's why I can't help but roll my eyes every time they trot out the "anyone can die" stuff. It's like, yeah right. Anyone except the straight white male leads, you mean.

With that said, I DO think Root will be the next death, but I don't think she goes until the end of next season. They're not killing Elias (Scarface maybe, but at the end of the day he's pretty minor.)

Actually, given that Greer has mugshots for every member of TM, Martine should have recognised Shaw from the second, cleaned up image from the security footage. Unless, Greer never showed those to her, but then how is she suppose to do her auxiliary duty for Samaritan if he doesn't tell her who to look for?

This is one thing I was a little unclear on, and I haven't had time to rewatch--DID Greer realize that the Virus Woman is in fact Shaw and a member of Team Machine? I thought he did, but then events later in the episode made me think he didn't.

Though really, if Martine didn't realize after Romeo said his driver's name was Sameen, she's not half as good an investigator as they all think. That coincidence would be way too much, especially given the ISA tie-in.

Edited November 22, 2014 by stealinghome

[DEM]

Regarding Sameen's name: There was a discontinuity. In this ep Shaw's Angler profile said Nadya (which is what it originally was in Lady Killer).  It seems likely the writers realised belatedly that the Angler profile should have used an alias. (Or The Machine erred and Shaw had to fix it.)  Romeo never spoke Shaw's name or alias.
 

GREER: Samaritan has uncovered evidence that an ISA agent allowed members of a criminal outfit to escape with our virus.
MARTINE: Escape from surveillance?
GREER: One of them has proven to be particularly elusive, avoiding cameras and detection. Makes me wonder if it might be related to our underground friends.
MARTINE: Of course, you want me to track her down and open fire in a crowded store.

 
I thought Greer was simply entertaining the idea that the virus heist could be related to Team Machine.

Edited November 22, 2014 by DEM

[benteen]

Martine's strategy of public shootings is idiotic.  I know they think they have unlimited power (and Samaritan pretty much gives them it) but no one would put up with these kind of actions.

[stealinghome]

Romeo never spoke Shaw's name or alias.

I'm pretty sure he did, though. When they met in 4x01, when Shaw was walking away from the "date" assuming she'd been stood up and Romeo drove up in his van, I'm 99.9% he called out "Sameen."

 

I'm willing to fanwank it away as a production error, but it's still sloppy.

[DEM]

Though really, if Martine didn't realize after Romeo said his driver's name was Sameen

I was replying to that comment and referring to this episode. And when I said discontinuity, I was referring to 4x01 vs. 4x08.  In this episode, when speaking to Martine, Romeo said neither Sameen nor Nadya.  The only reference to her name was in the Angler app on his mobile phone -- which said 'Nadya'.

Edited November 22, 2014 by DEM

[basiltherat]

Wasn't Shaw originally "Samantha" back when we met her as a minion of Control? 

[wilnil]

Last season, after the name Sameen surfaced, I went back and rewatched "Relevance" -- Cole only calls her "Sam," and the Machine keeps tagging her & him by code name ("Indigo"/"Catalyst", IIRC). I think "Samantha" may have been just an assumption on the part of fans that spread.

[ABay]

The writers need a baby name book with the Sa section removed. Samantha Groves, Sameen Shaw, Samaritan...At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Greer's first name is Samuel.

[Boundary]

Root is the Machine's avatar in the world of meat.  I believe she will do all she can to preserve Root's functionality.  I honestly don't see Root as threatened until we see the machine grooming a possible replacement.

 

I agree with this. A lot of effort has gone into making Root the avatar, even her hearing was restored just to make communication easier. I think the Machine knows Finch as Admin and Reese and Shaw as assets but that's based on what Shaw and Reese decide to do on a daily basis, it's certainly not a permanent assignment. Root, on the other hand, engrained herself by abusing Finch's back up protocol with the Machine. I don't think that protocol can be undone simply by killing off Root. Besides, Root can get real time updates about how to survive a gun attack, unlike Shaw.

[stealinghome]

Last season, after the name Sameen surfaced, I went back and rewatched "Relevance" -- Cole only calls her "Sam," and the Machine keeps tagging her & him by code name ("Indigo"/"Catalyst", IIRC). I think "Samantha" may have been just an assumption on the part of fans that spread.

I think what happened is that in early press releases, CBS listed Shaw's full name as Samantha Shaw, for example here (and I read somewhere that CBS' marketing department has been super slow to catch on to the fact that that's not Shaw's name, even putting "Samantha" on the S3 DVD covers--talk about a gaffe if true!--can anyone confirm?). So while only "Sam" was ever said, people assumed her name was Samantha, and when they started asking the writers about the significance of having two Samanthas, I think the writers realized either they, CBS, or both, had goofed. So made it a point to establish on the show that her name is Sameen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I will be beyond peeved if they kill off Elias. No, just no. I know I had my issues with him back in Season 1, but good GAWD ALMIGHTY, with Dominic uttering, over and over and over again "we all die in the end" just makes my eyes roll so very hard and hope that he just falls over a bridge and dies. The pontificating. the...what was it someone else posted upthread....? Sermonalizying? Has GOT.TO.STOP.

 

Oh goodie. Another episode where I could fast forward all Non-Reese scenes and still know what it was about.