The Fall - General Discussion

[justcris]

As a whole I liked season 1 better, but I think that's because it's a more usual format. Continuing the story like this is something that might not always work but I like to see the developments while keeping with the same protagonists. Which is what I also enjoyed about Broadchurch season 2.

 

I liked this ending, it leaves a lot of threads to be picked up in the next season, which I will continue to watch.

 

 

And to add to the bra discussion haha I'm not sure anyone can talk for all women. I use underwire bras almost everyday, because they fit right and mine are pretty damn comfortable, so much so that I sleep (alone) with them as often as I don't. For me, in that scene, it didn't even register.

 

 

[Chaos Theory]

Um, hmm. I'm happy the show is coming back. Not sure I'm happy Paul Spector is coming back.

Happy for both. Specters "death" seemed a little contrived to me. I am hoping for a lot more scenes between Gibson and Spector.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[paramitch]

On the teenager, what was interesting about her relationship to Paul was that I felt like he was the one who tried to maintain boundaries. I mean, he's a killer and a creep and a freak, but I don't think he's a pedophile. She was constantly throwing herself at him (often literally), so I felt like the webcam thing was simply his giving her a 'reward' without violating his own weird standards, if that makes sense. She was a genuinely creepy character -- while I found her tiresome, I did find her believable, and history is full of teenagers who were so desperate for acceptance that they cheerfully signed on to support murder and more just to get validation.

 

Captanne (last post on this, I swear!) I liked the bra moment, because I felt like it spotlighted Stella's subtle narcissism -- a trait she actually shared with Paul, to some degree. She is careful of her appearance and her body (which, all to the good -- nothing wrong with that, of course). But the fact that a beautiful woman like Stella is sleeping in her bra, to me betrayed an underlying insecurity and even a c**** in her armor.

 

It made me think of Marilyn Monroe, who also notoriously slept in her bra on a frequent basis, which was probably why I found it poignant in Stella, as well. Stella is gorgeous but she's also middle-aged, and that's a harrowing point for many people, male or female. But society is notoriously tougher on aging women. So to me that scene could definitely have some interesting things to say about Stella as a character and about how she may dismiss some expectations of women, she nevertheless still struggles to meet plenty of them.

 

Meanwhile, Ravenya003, I agree that it's cool we can look at these scenes and read them in multiple ways. The show is very good at that.

Thanks for the great conversation, all!

[Andromeda]

Definitely. I completely agree with you about the lack of urgency. It was so odd and frustrating to watch Stella talk and act in such a slow and measured manner. I was so happy she finally ran in the final scene, but it was to save the serial killer. Go figure.

 

Unfortunately, the second season did not match the quality of the first season. For me, it was so frustrating to watch the police try to catch Spector for 6 episodes, when it felt like they were right on his heels in the last episode of season 1. I was SHOCKED when they had all of this information pointing to him (including an uncanny picture!) and it still took them a few episodes to make the connection.

 

I just finished a two-day marathon of Seasons 1 and 2. I agree with the above. The second season was veering toward Keystone Kops territory -- they had plenty of evidence, yet kept putting off an arrest or questioning him, while Rose was possibly dying or dead. I get they wanted him to lead them to her, but bringing him in, arresting him on the strength of that fingerprint (very damning physical evidence all on its own), and then cutting a bargain like they ended up doing anyway would have gotten them to Rose days sooner. Plus, Paul and his minion Katie wouldn't have had as much opportunity to destroy evidence.

 

And I was really frustrated with no one sharing that the man in the botanical gardens video happened to stop by, and gave an interview, and no one noticed the drawing they had of his face happened to look like him! At least similar enough to raise questions. Really idiotic on the police's part -- they didn't seem to be sharing information among team members. Everyone who came in about that tape should have been explored in depth, and Stella should have paid attention to each and every one. After all, it's the cops who put the video out to the public to draw people in in the first place. You'd think they'd pay attention to the results.

 

It seemed to take them forever to check the abandoned building in the woods. Stella had to ask the to do it twice -- when they had a missing woman!

 

That entire last section in the woods, I was concerned they weren't guarding him carefully enough. All the cops were sitting in their cars, I suppose, but why was he allowed to have one hand free? Why weren't there at least six cops surrounding him? I saw the assassination coming a mile away, of course. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Weird how that reporter wasn't all that concerned that a known criminal took off in his car a day or two before. And Gillian sure took her time getting to Rose's car. That was maddening.

 

Then there's Katie. I don't get that girl. I suppose she's an interesting character because she's so damned weird. I just found her increasingly annoying, so annoying in her weird reactions that I really wanted to strangle her (speaking euphemistically, of course!). I cheered when it looked like the guy interviewing her was going to paint a true portrait of how awful her "love" was, but he didn't really get to go there, and apparently she was OK with him being a killer -- but I don't really know why. I felt let down that no one really got through to her and shook her to her core. And I really wonder what was going on with her mother -- did her mother ask her what she was doing spending nearly six hours alone with the husband of a babysitting job? The mother's only reaction when Katie said that was a quizzical expression.

 

Gillian was fantastic for the most part -- I loved her. I loved her attitude toward sex (the "sweet night" idea), and how confident she was. (I'm so not like that, so she fascinated me.) I will definitely watch season 3, but I sure wouldn't mind moving on from Peter Paul Spector -- I feel like we've done all we can with him, he's caught, he confessed, we know stuff about his past, I'm over him. I don't care about the cat and mouse between Gillian and his character. That's also played out. We saw the culmination of that in the interview scene, which was very good.

 

And add me to the list who doesn't see the attraction for Dornan. To me he's very bland looking. His acting is OK (a little bland) but not the most chilling serial killer I've ever seen portrayed, either. I never plan to watch the craptastic 50 Shades, but reviewers said he was bland in that, too. I just don't see him as being super hot or charming. Plus his beard is scrungy. Ew. "Similar cop" at the end was hotter -- though annoying.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Andromeda

[Crossbow]

The lead up was slow but the actual scene, with Stella rushing to the KILLER and screaming for help for HIM, while completely ignoring the guy she's sleeping with, that was just chilling. It really showed us the depth of her obsession with him.

[Crossbow]

Posted today.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/29/gillian-anderson-the-fall-x-files-david-duchovny_n_7467528.html

[MsJamieDornan]

In the 2nd season, why did Stella almost speak in a whisper? very annoying...

[mansonlamps]

I am loving this show and am astonished I just happened upon it while browsing thru Netflix. Where's the love for this? And why wouldn't it have been recommended to me considering I've watched the Killing, Broadchurch, Gracepoint, the Missing, etc.?

[Finis Terre]

In our Twitter exchange Patrick Munn from tvwise.co.uk confirmed that nearly all of the cast signed for season 3, including the lovely Archie Panjabi. He also wrote that 2 new characters wll be added: Chief Constable of PSNI and head of Professional Standards. Stella's life promises to be even more complicated, I guess. 

https://twitter.com/patmunn/status/620985236717981696

[KnoxForPres]

Very late to this show and comments, but I thought Spector's thoughts on those with golden spoon deserved to be punished was a bit too real. Like as he was talking I was hoping psychos weren't watching and justifying reasons to inflict harm. I don't normally think that way, but it was just a bit too detailed for me. And he's hot, which on a sick way would possibly make it more justified to a sicko. Not describing it well, but felt an agenda from production almost came out in that scene.

I like this show but I have the hardest time staying awake an entire episode. And I don't think it's boring. It's a weird phenomen. I'm completely engaged in a scene, then wake up to realize, damn it, I've fallen asleep again! I can't remember a show I legit liked and was into where this has occurred!

[supposebly]

I finally watched the second season. I had to watch in smaller increments because the show makes me super-tense. Not much to add to the excellent comments apart from while I can see that Jamie Dornan is objectively good-looking, I didn't find Paul Spector attractive, mostly because I knew what he was while most other people he interacted with didn't.

He managed to portray that inner tension and anger but also that somewhat blase behavior when he killed. He seemed almost like a machine, ruthless. However, his behavior with Rose was angrier. I felt there were two aspects why he couldn't outright kill her. She was a mother and he knew her. I think an important aspect in killing was also in objectifying them and that wasn't possible anymore with her. I think keeping her locked up and with a camera was an attempt to do that but it didn't work, hence his comment to "himself" at the end.

 

I liked that his reasons or his pathology couldn't just be summed up in a sentence or two, even killers are complex creatures, like any human beings.

 

Very good acting, but then I expect that from Gillian Anderson. I adored her comment to Inspector Merlin that she doesn't find Spector fascinating and in the end, she told Spector exactly that. He can justify and explain any way he likes but in the end, he is a killer and that's what's important for her. I interpreted her reaction in the end that he is getting away and she doesn't want him to get out of things that easily, especially not considering how long he kept Rose.

 

Katie was incredibly annoying but I sort of see the obsession and the narcissism of teenagers amplified in her. She want him she does anything to get him and ignores any warning signs in that pursuit. Combine that with the conviction to be immortal and that he would never hurt her, it works. She actually reminded me of myself at that age. I wasn't obsessing over a serial killer but the objects of my affection were not always entirely appropriate either. I was not at all manipulative but then, I'm still not.

[NateCon]

 

I particularly liked the conflict with the ex-IRA guys.

Bit late to this, but if you mean the guy who was abusing his wife and those 'associates' of his, they weren't ex-IRA. He asked if Paul was a 'taig' in the elevator. 

[madam magpie]

The lead up was slow but the actual scene, with Stella rushing to the KILLER and screaming for help for HIM, while completely ignoring the guy she's sleeping with, that was just chilling. It really showed us the depth of her obsession with him.

I know I'm way behind the times, but I didn't see it this way at all. Merlin is a cop. He's probably wearing a vest like Dani was when she got shot. He didn't need Stella's help. Plus Dani was already helping him. Stella didn't need to push in and make emotional decisions...why would she? Because she slept with him once??

Her attention went to Paul because he was bleeding out, not because she has feelings for him. She wants to take him alive, she hates him, she wants him to pay for what he's done. So she tried to keep him from dying there in the woods. Stella embodies everything women aren't usually allowed to be on television, or frankly, in life. She's smart, calculating, and ruled by evidence and logic, though she's certainly fascinated by human psychology. She can be controlled and detached, but she also feels things deeply. We've seen her cry and she doesn't seem to feel shame in that; she lets others see. She empathizes, on some level even with Paul. But she's not ruled by emotional attachments to men, creepy serial killer or good-looking cop. Which is why I loved it. I thought this show was absolutely fantastic, and can't wait for a new season.

Edited February 18, 2016 by madam magpie

[DrMKW]

This show is so frustrating! Why don't they take him into custody ?! Argh! "No arrest strategy has been developed yet" ?? Really! What the hell have you been doing then!! 

[madam magpie]

This show is so frustrating! Why don't they take him into custody ?! Argh! "No arrest strategy has been developed yet" ?? Really! What the hell have you been doing then!!

Stella wants Spector to lead them to Rose. That's why he's not arrested right away.

[SparklesBitch]

A thread to discuss the fabulous Stella Gibson herself!

 

.....bringing this discussion over from another board, regarding Stella's support of women on the show, and Rose in particular when they talked about her relationship with Spector:

 

She wasn't overly maternal or sweet about it either. Like...this isn't complicated. Yes, he was a weirdo. No, you're not a tramp. Yes, it's OK to have some sex if you want. No, it's not OK for the guy to almost kill you in the middle of it. And I love too that the reason she cares so much about Rose...why she gets so emotionally involved...is because SHE'S the one who made the mistake that put Rose in danger. It's not just that a poor woman is being held captive. They're all women being abused. What sets Rose apart and connects them is that Stella herself accidentally put herself in league with Spector...he bested her. And that makes her so upset. (I mean, as upset as she gets.) I did tear up with her when she was watching that video Rose made.

 

Agreed. I liked the way the did it. To show Stella being sympathetic and empathetic, they gave her a real reason to be emotionally invested instead of just relying on the whole fellow woman thing. I got teary at the video too....that was hard to watch.

 

I read over on The Fall board people saying that they thought Stella tried to save Spector in the end because she had some twisted feelings for him. I was stunned by that. Are we watching the same show? She hates him; she's not creepily in love with him. What the...what?? That would ruin everything that's great about this show.

 

Yeah, I don't understand that point of view, either. I don't think she has any romantic feelings for him at all. I think she's disgusted by him and also fascinated by him in a way. That discussion she had over drinks with Reed about how she used to interview killers made it clear that she's interested in learning what makes them tick. I don't think she's used to being bested by a criminal, and he's outwitted her. I think that frustrates her, makes her angry, makes her want to get him and put him away that much more.

 

In sort of a strange way, I think it makes sense for her to be taken with him, not romantically at all, but out of pure curiosity and the thrill of the chase. I mean, really, he's the one guy on the show who isn't a disappointing mess. He's at least challenging her in some way. I think Stella is a woman that needs that in life, to keep her interested.

 

I think her running to him at the end of the episode was purely out of wanting to save him so that he could face the music....dying without being prosecuted for anything is a fate too good for Spector.

 

And the thing is that I don't want falling in love to save her or anything like that. I feel like that's so often where the story goes. [....] I don't want Stella healed! She's already whole and awesome. I do want to open her up a little bit, though, mainly just because I want to see inside.

 

Preach! Yep, I totally agree with this. I'd like to see her let her guard down with someone she trusts just a bit so we can see underneath a little, but I don't need there to be any sort of love story.

 

But I think that's not the point of the the character or story, and is exactly why I think that show is genius. The goal isn't a typical "growing up" story. Stella is a woman who's already in her skin and comfortable there. I don't really know her, though. With each episode, I get more information, but I don't know her at all really. You think you already know everything about her? Who is she? What does she love, value, admire, respect, etc.? And what made her that way? Where does she come from? I have very little idea.

 

Yes! I like too, that Stella is older than most of your typical female leads are when a show starts. She's established in her career,, she's confident and she's comfortable in her skin. That's huge.

 

I feel like every little bit we learn about her is a treat because the show isn't focused on her personal life or her having big, dramatic reactions to her case of the week. The show is about a team trying to catch this murderer and therefore what we learn about Stella as a person is mostly from watching her react to the crimes and the man committing them and how she works with those around her.

Edited February 23, 2016 by SparklesBitch

[madam magpie]

In sort of a strange way, I think it makes sense for her to be taken with him, not romantically at all, but out of pure curiosity and the thrill of the chase. I mean, really, he's the one guy on the show who isn't a disappointing mess. He's at least challenging her in some way. I think Stella is a woman that needs that in life, to keep her interested.

 

For sure! And aren't we all somewhat taken in with him? Isn't that one reason the show is successful, because he's this bizarre and fascinating dichotomy? How do both sides of this man exist in one person?

 

I think it's interesting that you mention Spector as the only man on the show who's not a disappointing mess. That's a great observation. He does provide Stella with something that the other men don't, doesn't he? The "good guy" men are so flat, typical, lacking spark, etc. But Spector, the villain, is so charismatic in his psychology that you're drawn to and excited by him. Not romantically, for sure, but in that way that dynamic people are fascinating. He commands attention in the same way Stella does even as they exist on opposite sides of the ethical line. And yeah, I do think that kind of challenge turns her on in an intellectual way.

 

Preach! Yep, I totally agree with this. I'd like to see her let her guard down with someone she trusts just a bit so we can see underneath a little, but I don't need there to be any sort of love story.

 

She may love Reed Smith...I will support that.

 

I feel like every little bit we learn about her is a treat because the show isn't focused on her personal life or her having big, dramatic reactions to her case of the week. The show is about a team trying to catch this murderer and therefore what we learn about Stella as a person is mostly from watching her react to the crimes and the man committing them and how she works with those around her.

 

Yes! They say in creative writing classes (and acting too, I think) that your entire story can be told in your characters' reactions. The audience learns so much about who the character is from how he/she reacts to the action. I love that basically everything we know about Stella comes from reaction. That's not to say she's passive; she's obviously not. But no one tells us who she is. We just see her peel away pieces of herself as the story unfolds. I work in publishing and studied writing in school, so the intricacy of the actual craft of storytelling is one of my absolute favorite things. This show is so well crafted it's almost perfect. I wish I could sit down with the writer and have him explain his process.

Edited February 23, 2016 by madam magpie

[myril]

For sure! And aren't we all somewhat taken in with him? Isn't that one reason the show is successful, because he's this bizarre and fascinating dichotomy? How do both sides of this man exist in one person?

 

I wouldn't phrase it as being taken in with him. Intrigued, fascinated, seeing him as an intellectual puzzle to solve, interested to get into his mind in some way, maybe, but only to learn how to stop him or types like him with legal means. I don't think he has any dichotomy in his personality, we only perceive it as that, but he has learned to pretend pretty well, to adapt, to look and be perceived as loving and caring man while he is far from that. Doubt he has any deep feelings for his family, his wife or his children, any kind of empathy or love for anyone. He is intelligent, he has build a persona acceptable for society, that's all. When he loses it somewhat after he learned that his recent victim had been pregnant he wasn't feeling any remorse for having killed as well an unborn child, though quite sure some might think that, that he thought of his own children. But he didn't, Spector was irritated that this detail had slipped him so to speak and that his fantasy was spoiled by it. It was though on purpose by the writer, I think, to give us this moment of doubt, maybe he does feel something, maybe there is some grain of good in him, maybe some tragic story is there to explain him and his crimes, making the audience fall a bit for Spector's show. From all what is shown Spector is a psychopath, highly functional, very observable and good in imitating what is deemed as acceptable, good normal behavior. He is physically attractive, an enticing person either to those, who don't know what he is doing, or to those finding nefariousness and secrecy somehow attractive, like Katie does. Doubt though that Gibson finds him any attractive, romantically or even just sexually, she knows him for what he is. She only wants to get into his mind to take him down.

 

Gibson wants to bring him down while not letting the victims down, that's what I think she cares about. So she has an interest in Spector not dying, to be sure they get him for all he did. It's not simply about stopping him or getting revenge, it's about getting justice for his victims in the sense of proving what he did, of showing the world who he was and is. The victims know, but others have to see that too.

 

Not to mention, he was shot there under her watch. Gibson his in her own way determined to keep control.

So agree mostly with this:

I think her running to him at the end of the episode was purely out of wanting to save him so that he could face the music....dying without being prosecuted for anything is a fate too good for Spector.

Unfortunately there is a certain tendency to confuse disgust with simple rejection and reading some kind of sexual tension into it, particular if it is between a woman and man, leading to wrongly romanticising things that are not at all romantic. Would say it is an unfortunate frequent theme on screen and in literature, giving way too many people rather stupid and wrong ideas about romance.

Gibson has no romantic feelings for Spector, not even a tiny bit, and doubt this show would be so dumb to take that road. Would in my opinion not add any interesting layer to her character.

 

Yes! They say in creative writing classes (and acting too, I think) that your entire story can be told in your characters' reactions. The audience learns so much about who the character is from how he/she reacts to the action. I love that basically everything we know about Stella comes from reaction. That's not to say she's passive; she's obviously not. But no one tells us who she is. We just see her peel away pieces of herself as the story unfolds. I work in publishing and studied writing in school, so the intricacy of the actual craft of storytelling is one of my absolute favorite things. This show is so well crafted it's almost perfect. I wish I could sit down with the writer and have him explain his process.

Indeed.  It's brilliant writing and editing, and some of the most creepy and suspenseful things I've seen, for example how they combine in sequences what different characters are doing. Some writers seems to think that suspense or excitement is all about the unexpected twist, the big surprise and at worst following cliffhanger, thankfully not so Allan Cubitt. Think often it's more suspenseful to let the audience have a rather good guess what will happen, and let it unfold, eventually excruciatingly in small details. Keep the audience in the know while still playing its imagination.

 

Gibson has an amazing presence from the first moment on, giving a sense of many layers in her persona. I am less curious about her background or life story but far more intrigued to see how she is going about this case and the now, her reactions and actions in the presence of the story tell all about her character. Sometimes there are characters you have to see where they are coming from, their past, but I think not so much with her.  I enjoy that, because have become somewhat tired of "we dig up the past to explain the characters emotions in the presence" stuff. These past digging stories seem to come with the focus so often on the poor misunderstood evil person trope or torn unwilling hero. Refreshing to have the focus on this show more on the here and now.

I mean, we got glimpses, like her affair with Burns she had in the past, but it happened rather by the way. And it was more about the present situation and his moment of indignation about that she had a one night stand with a married guy.

[madam magpie]

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Stella has any romantic feelings for Spector at all. But I call "fascination" basically the same thing as "taken with." I do think she's fascinated by him (as am I) and the psychology of him, and I think he turns on the intellectual part of her brain, though not in a sexual way. That's the show's play on the typical theme of a powerful woman attracted to a bad guy. She absolutely has no twisted love or romantic feelings for him at all. She hates him and, as you say, wants to bring him down. I agree that's why she saved him. (Also FYI, the quotes SparklesBitch used at the start are mine from another board. We were told to bring our conversation about Stella here. I was stunned to read that people thought she had feelings for him.)

I do think he's a dichotomy, though. I think he does love his children/wife, but he's also ruled by compulsion. Stella says it's an addiction, and like all addicts before him, he tries to explain away the responsibility of that. Addicts are capable of love. Maybe Spector isn't truly a psychopath. Maybe psychopathy is more complicated than we realize. I don't know.

I also think that from a thematic perspective, Stella and Spector are mirrored, contradictory personalities. There's a reason we see her swim/him run, her review her clothes/him review his souvenirs, her journal/him journal, and so on. The similarities force the audience to move beyond the superficial to define what makes them different. I think one way is that Stella isn't at all ruled by addiction. She makes her choices consciously, whereas Spector acts out of compulsion.

There are grains of good in him; I believe there are grains of good in everyone. Just like there are grains of bad. His reaction to finding out that one victim was pregnant is a complementary reaction to Stella finding out she'd slept with a married man. Both typically call for remorse. He expresses something that looks like it, whereas Stella doesn't. Does he feel something she doesn't? Or is she just more honest? I don't know.

I do want to know more of Stella's past, but it's only so I can see her better. I'm with you that I don't want it to be a big deal or obvious. So far, I really like how they've given us information about who she is without asking us to judge that information. It's reminiscent of how Stella treats Rose when she's telling the story of her relationship with Spector.

Edited February 24, 2016 by madam magpie

[SparklesBitch]

I think it's interesting that you mention Spector as the only man on the show who's not a disappointing mess. That's a great observation. He does provide Stella with something that the other men don't, doesn't he? The "good guy" men are so flat, typical, lacking spark, etc. But Spector, the villain, is so charismatic in his psychology that you're drawn to and excited by him. Not romantically, for sure, but in that way that dynamic people are fascinating. He commands attention in the same way Stella does even as they exist on opposite sides of the ethical line. And yeah, I do think that kind of challenge turns her on in an intellectual way.

 

 

She may love Reed Smith...I will support that.

 

Yes! Spector is incredibly fascinating and definitely commands attention the way that Stella does. From an audience perspective, I want to know more about him the same way I want to know more about her. What makes him tick? Why is he the way that he is? Why these victims? Does he really have two sides to his personality or is he just faking his entire family life? Inquiring minds!

 

And lol yes, she may love Reed Smith. I'd be on board with that too. =)

 

 Doubt he has any deep feelings for his family, his wife or his children, any kind of empathy or love for anyone. He is intelligent, he has build a persona acceptable for society, that's all.

 

See, I'm not quite so sold on this. I agree that he's learned how to function in society by watching and mimicking, and also that his feelings for his wife and the general public are pretty shallow. However, I think he genuinely cares about his daughter. I think he actually loves her and enjoys spending time with her. If that's true, I think that's much more interesting than a straight-up psychopath who feels absolutely nothing for anyone.

 

I do think he's a dichotomy, though. I think he does love his children/wife, but he's also ruled by compulsion. Stella says it's an addiction, and like all addicts before him, he tries to explain away the responsibility of that. Addicts are capable of love. Maybe Spector isn't truly a psychopath. Maybe psychopathy is more complicated than we realize. I don't know.

I also think that from a thematic perspective, Stella and Spector are mirrored, contradictory personalities. There's a reason we see her swim/him run, her review her clothes/him review his souvenirs, her journal/him journal, and so on. The similarities force the audience to move beyond the superficial to define what makes them different. I think one way is that Stella isn't at all ruled by addiction. She makes her choices consciously, whereas Spector acts out of compulsion.

There are grains of good in him; I believe there are grains of good in everyone. Just like there are grains of bad. His reaction to finding out that one victim was pregnant is a complementary reaction to Stella finding out she'd slept with a married man. Both typically call for remorse. He expresses something that looks like it, whereas Stella doesn't. Does he feel something she doesn't? Or is she just more honest? I don't know.

 

Regarding Spector's dichotomy, I agree for the most part. I haven't seen much that leads me to believe he actually feels much for poor Sally Ann, but I think he loves Olivia deeply. I think Stella called it correctly when she called it an addiction. It's like a steam valve that he has to open every so often to relieve the pressure before he explodes. But where does the pressure come from is the interesting question.

 

The mirroring, contradictory personalities point is interesting. Stella obviously makes all her choices consciously, like you said, and Spector acts out of compulsion. At the same time, though, he's a planner. He takes his time, he stalks, he knows how much time he has with his victims, he cleans up. They aren't your run of the mill, spur of the moment, crimes of passion. So while he allows himself to indulge in his addiction, he also does so in a way that would allow him to continue. So maybe they're more alike than we think?

 

I feel like he definitely has grains of good in him. Agreed! I struggle with thinking whether his reaction to finding out that his one victim was pregnant was genuine or not. I feel like his writing that letter to the father was a little much for someone who actually didn't care, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how he even becomes a person of interest? I tend to think ti was real. He seems to have a real fondness for kids. Outside if his own and also his reaction upon finding out that Sarah Kay was pregnant, he entertains Rose's daughter before kidnapping her mother. He patiently listens to her and then teaches her a tongue twister. If he were truly some sort of psychopath, he could have just killed her and been done with it. Maybe he's just the sort of violent criminal who sees kids as too innocent to harm?

 

As for Stella's lack of guilt, I'll be forever grateful they wrote that the way they did. I don't think it's her being any more honest than Spector in showing guilt for things, necessarily. I just think him killing a woman he didn't know was pregnant was literally the only thing that he did that ran up against his own personal moral code and he was trying to atone for it. Stella not expressing guilt over sleeping with a married man, i think, was spot on. She didn't know he was married at the time. He could have chosen to tell her as an explanation of why he couldn't go through with it. He could have flat out declined without explanation. Both would have worked. She would have listened. Case in point: she listened to Reed turn her down. She didn't push it and respected her decision. It's not Stella's fault that Olson cheated on his wife with her when Stella didn't even know the wife existed. I think she was well within her right not to have any guilt. She was right, that was his business. Now, I would feel totally differently if she'd known going into it that he was married. It would still have been his decision, but in that situation she would have shared some of the guilt load.

 

So in terms of Stella vs. Spector expressing guilt, I think it's different because Spector willingly and knowingly did something awful. Stella didn't. She was just refusing to be made to feel guilty for something that she didn't have all the information about.

[madam magpie]

As for Stella's lack of guilt, I'll be forever grateful they wrote that the way they did. I don't think it's her being any more honest than Spector in showing guilt for things, necessarily. I just think him killing a woman he didn't know was pregnant was literally the only thing that he did that ran up against his own personal moral code and he was trying to atone for it. Stella not expressing guilt over sleeping with a married man, i think, was spot on. She didn't know he was married at the time. He could have chosen to tell her as an explanation of why he couldn't go through with it. He could have flat out declined without explanation. Both would have worked. She would have listened. Case in point: she listened to Reed turn her down. She didn't push it and respected her decision. It's not Stella's fault that Olson cheated on his wife with her when Stella didn't even know the wife existed. I think she was well within her right not to have any guilt. She was right, that was his business. Now, I would feel totally differently if she'd known going into it that he was married. It would still have been his decision, but in that situation she would have shared some of the guilt load.

So in terms of Stella vs. Spector expressing guilt, I think it's different because Spector willingly and knowingly did something awful. Stella didn't. She was just refusing to be made to feel guilty for something that she didn't have all the information about.

Oh, yes, most definitely! I wouldn't have wanted her to feel guilty for that either. First off, like you say, she didn't do anything wrong since she didn't know he was married. (I wonder if she'd sleep with married men knowingly? What do you think? And I wonder if I'd judge her for that. It does run completely contrary to my own ethical code.) And the idea that women are inherently guilty for how they lure into bed poor, defenseless married men who can't help themselves is such bullshit. I like that there's nothing in Stella that buys into it. And also, I like that really the only thing she's felt guilty about so far is accidentally naming Rose and putting her in danger. It's the only thing she's done "wrong," and even though it was inadvertent, it would still be something that would tear her up. Women usually are wracked with guilt for everything; it's so ingrained in us. I like that Stella rises above.

I think I'm just so interested in the mirroring of Stella and Spector. It seems so deliberate, though I'll admit I don't think I fully understand what exactly the writer is trying to communicate with it. Maybe it's just the obvious: how can people so similar be so vastly different, where exactly is that line? But I don't know...I feel like there's more to it. I mean, Stella does act consciously, whereas Spector is compelled. But like you say, he also plans. That's acting consciously. And maybe we're meant to see mirrored compulsion in Stella too, with her regimented swimming and neatly hung clothes, things like that. Neither of them makes many mistakes. Though maybe that just speaks more to the similarities and the fine line?

I don't think we can say the line is drawn at compassion, because I agree that Spector loves and has empathy for his daughter. (And the son, too, though we don't seem much of him.) Maybe not Sally Ann. I don't know. I feel like in that conversation they have after he lies about Katie and when she decides to leave him, he's sincerely remorseful for what he's done to her and to their family, but it could be an act. And yeah, I believe that letter he writes Sarah Kay's family is sincere, though in that self-absorbed way crazy people are sincere. (I think you're right that it puts Stella more on his trail too, but I'd have to rewatch to be sure.) And they both manipulate: Spector with the stuff about Stella's journal/father and trying to get her to lose focus in the interrogation, and Stella with the nail polish and using his daughter to bribe him to give up info about Rose. And they both stalk: Spector with the women, Stella when she's trying to get him to lead them to Rose.

So the idea that they're both faced with this inadvertent "indiscretion" (can we call killing a woman who is pregnant an indiscretion??) and they react to it opposite to how you'd expect each type of person to react (the killer feels remorse and the woman refuses to feel it)...I don't know. I don't totally get it, but it seems important, if that makes sense.

Maybe he's just the sort of violent criminal who sees kids as too innocent to harm?

I think this must be it, and I'm very interested to learn why he is this way. Why are professional women with dark hair so disposable, but children aren't? Stella references his mother, but I don't think we got much detail about that, did we? And then there's the pedophile priest. Maybe Spector can relate to children because of that experience? Or maybe he's stunted because of it, so children are the only peers he really understands.

Also interesting that Spector insists he's not a rapist and seems to genuinely be flustered and upset when Stella says he is. Why is rape verboten in his mind, but murder isn't??

Edited February 27, 2016 by madam magpie

[myril]

I agree that he's learned how to function in society by watching and mimicking, and also that his feelings for his wife and the general public are pretty shallow. However, I think he genuinely cares about his daughter. I think he actually loves her and enjoys spending time with her. If that's true, I think that's much more interesting than a straight-up psychopath who feels absolutely nothing for anyone.

 

Trying to get not too deep here into Spector's mind, but one thing, that I think I have to explain to go into Stella's mind and emotion and the idea of mirroring then. Psychopathy IMO doesn't mean being incapable of any emotions, it means a lack of empathy and often (maybe as consequence) either a lack of morality as well or a morality being very different from most, from average humans. It means to have little to no sense for the feelings of others. A psychopath still can develop feelings, even some sort of love for someone, I think, but it's different from what average people experience. I think it takes a lot more intellectual effort for a psychopath, he has to construct his world more with logic than average people to develop something like love and care for others, the feelings barely go deep in this, while a psychopath very well can develop feelings of hate, despise, disgust, envy, and get obsessive, that doesn't take much empathy. He has not what I would call a basic emotional frame that maybe keeps most of us from doing certain things. A psychopath can have feelings for someone but has likely little to no sense and regards for their feelings. Seeing where Spector hid his stuff and how he talked away his daughter's night terrors  I doubt he has much of a sense of her feelings nor regards for it. He certainly doesn't has the same "protective" feelings for his son, barely seem to notice him, I don't think it was random that he didn't want to see him as much as his daughter. When there is anything it is specifically Olivia, it's not kids in general, Stella nails that quite good I think in the interrogation. (dang, maybe should create a Spector thread, some more things to say about him, but not today)

 

By the way, Stella explicitly says she despises Spector, in episode 2x06, when Tom Anderson muses, she might have slept with him because he seems to resemble Spector in appearance, The way she said it didn't gave me the impression that she didn't mean it. But of course that won't be enough for others, could say she might after all lie even to herself in this.

 

I think I'm just so interested in the mirroring of Stella and Spector. It seems so deliberate, though I'll admit I don't think I fully understand what exactly the writer is trying to communicate with it. Maybe it's just the obvious: how can people so similar be so vastly different, where exactly is that line? But I don't know...I feel like there's more to it.

Where to draw the line is IMO already plenty to reflect on and wonder about. They might seem more alike than is comfortable, because what is the difference that keeps Stella from turning into a murdering, torturing criminal like Spector has become. Isn't it close to unbearable to think it might be just by chance, or just some slight differences at important points in their lives? It can't be such a thin line, can it be? What if it is something out of our control, what then justifies the verdicts given, aren't they mostly based on the idea, that we can act differently and have control? And some things might be not so different even, it's the context that matters as much. Could Stella have become under different circumstances Spector and Spector Stella?

But I think one of the things that differentiates Stella and Spector is in the end, that Stella is capable of compassion. Though I wouldn't say that Stella holds the feelings of others always in high regards, it is debatable, but at least she seems to have a sense of feelings others have. Can ask though, what is more reprehensible, to not have, be not able to develop a sense of other people's feelings or to choose to be ignorant to feelings of others at times even if it might be for good reasons.

 

This is a crime show, thriller, but we know from the start who is the criminal, the suspense is there in how do they get him, adding in the second season the question, will they safe Rose. The mirroring, showing Stella as the hunter of the killer, and Spector as the killer hunting for his next victim or getting back at Stella as defense, helps to create suspension and emotional impact. it confuses the otherwise clear defined roles, who is the hunter, who the hunted, even sometimes who has the moral ground.

[madam magpie]

Can you really love someone without empathizing with him/her? I'm not sure. But I do think Spector cares about Olivia's feelings. He makes a point at the end, when they meet at the police station, to try to leave her with a good feeling and a validation of her self. He even apologizes to her for all the time they missed together.

But I think one of the things that differentiates Stella and Spector is in the end, that Stella is capable of compassion. Though I wouldn't say that Stella holds the feelings of others always in high regards, it is debatable, but at least she seems to have a sense of feelings others have. Can ask though, what is more reprehensible, to not have, be not able to develop a sense of other people's feelings or to choose to be ignorant to feelings of others at times even if it might be for good reasons.

See...I actually think Stella holds the feelings of others in very high regard...when they deserve it. She doesn't make nice or sugar-coat, but when it matters and is warranted, and really mostly with women, she cares a lot. When she just lets Reed Smith go home without any protest and then goes right back to working together, when she listens to Dani confess she'd been at Sarah Kay's house while she was being murdered and then takes her into the fold, when she's interviewing Rose. The feelings Stella doesn't seem to hold in high regard are ones that are unfounded or silly or a waste of her time...like when Jim says he'd have left his wife for her. That's just not Stella's problem or responsibility, and she refuses to take it on.

Stella empathizes most clearly with women, but whether she's able to do it with men is a mystery because so far, the men on this show are all disappointments, sexist, killers, and/or ordinary. (Except Sarah Kay's dad. She does seem to feel for him.) I wonder how she'd relate to a dynamic man who really got, respected, and admired women. Those guys are rare, but they do exist. I'd love to see what Stella would do with a guy like that.

Edited February 28, 2016 by madam magpie

[Jac]

I've just watched the first season and leapt straight into the second and I am really enjoying it thus far.

There are some parts of the show that annoy me a little, the use of the Neitzche quotes and the fact that Sally-Anne is a NICU nurse feel a little heavy-handed and obvious. Also, it can be difficult to keep track of how much time is passing.

On the positive side, Paul is compelling, I am fascinated by his psychology (and mildly terrified by his victim profile as it describes me pretty much exactly).

I also like the portrayal of the PSNI. The reality of the PSNI is that they are not particularly competent, especaially in dealing with this sort of crime, and the political dimension of policing in NI makes it incredibly difficult for the police to act effectively. What is surprising me is they have not focused more on the political aspects of policing which could actually be giving Paul a large advantage that he would not have if the series was set elsewhere.

Finally, I love Stella. I loved that in the first season she showed no guilt about her relationship with Jimmy Olson. She had a one night stand, she didn't know he was married, she sees no reason to be guilty for it. This is such a rare portrayal of a woman and it is so refreshing to see.

[LeGrandElephant]

I'm very late to the show, watching season 2 on Netflix now. But, can anyone explain why the episode titles on the threads here are all different than the ones on Netflix? Also, how come Netflix has it listed as a "Netflix original" when it seems to have aired first on the BBC?

Edited May 17, 2016 by LeGrandElephant

[LeGrandElephant]

I was surprised there wasn't more followup with Katie. I thought maybe she'd try to hurt her blonde friend, or something. Are they saving that for Season 3? 

At the end it was maddening how they were so slow to search for a possibly still alive kidnap victim, and were doing such a bad job guarding Paul. Why wasn't he handcuffed all the way at least? 

I was also a bit confused about the mechanics of that car. Stella didn't try to use the front lever to pop the trunk. And aren't modern car trunks designed so you can open them from the inside? Or was the implication that Paul had jammed it shut somehow? 

Early on it seemed like Paul's activities were subtly hurting Olivia - she was noticing odd things and having nightmares. But now she seems happy and fully loving towards him, though we know that won't last when she eventually finds out what's going on. 

And why did Jimmy want to shoot him so badly that he'd risk getting caught or killed by cops, instead of just being satisfied with watching Paul go to jail for life and be humiliated in public etc. Jimmy seems like he has too much uncontrolled rage to have lasted this long as the boss of a gang. I would think that job would require more intelligence and calculation than just sheer physical intimidation. And weird that the police weren't on his tail after the confrontation with his wife.

[LeGrandElephant]

Thus is kind of random, but I've been watching this show on Netflix with the Spanish subtitles, and I keep noticing how in (British) English they call Stella "mum", which I assume is really "ma'am" (me being American), but the Spanish subtitles consistently translate it as "detective" instead of something like "señora". 

[joelene]

On 17 maj 2016 at 11:02 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

I'm very late to the show, watching season 2 on Netflix now. But, can anyone explain why the episode titles on the threads here are all different than the ones on Netflix? Also, how come Netflix has it listed as a "Netflix original" when it seems to have aired first on the BBC?

You know I have no idea why the titles changed. The ones on this forum were the ones given from the descriptions when the episodes aired in Ireland/UK in 2014. They just changed them recently on IMDb to these new titles as well. 

As for "Netflix Original", I don't know why but it seems a show becomes that when they buy exclusive streaming rights. For example, I think "Marcella" which just aired in the UK and was a BBC production will also become a Netflix Original now that they bought the streaming rights. 

[mbutterfly]

Me too. I'm just watching it now. Perfect show for me. 

[MsJamieDornan]

The show definitely sucks you in. I wish they would release the last season.

[Eneya]

I like the show and I like the fact that people are moving around normally. Nobody shouts, runs, screams and acts like 5 year olds in a kindergarten, especially in such line of a job. To me it looks perfectly normal.
I like Stella and her calmness.
All in all, will stick for season two as well. :)

[Peanut6711]

My hubs and I watched this show as well as old X-files episodes on Netflix concurrently. I was quite impressed with how different GA's acting/characters were. I never once thought of Scully when watching Stella and vice versa.  That being said though, I can't say I was always a fan of Stella. I agree w/the poster that said she was broken rather than sexually liberated. Should they do a 3rd season, that line of character development should surely be explored.  I was rather bothered in this final episodes by Stella's comments about Sally-Anne. For someone who often seemed to take up a feminist cause, her lack of sympathy for Sally was a bit appalling, particularly in comments along the lines that Sally was dumb and uninquisitive simply because she was innocent of knowing her husband was a serial killer. The implication of course was the Stella was much wiser and intuitive, above her in her estimation so I'll admit taking joy out of Spector verbally knocking Stella down a bit when he accused her of not understanding his situation and further pointing out her spinster nature.  While clearly unhinged, Paul might very well have been right in that analysis of Stella. She thinks she's smarter and better than she really is. She really didn't understand Sally-Anne's position--that of as a mother of young kids and a neo-natal nurse working different shifts in a high stress profession.  I never really saw Sally-Anne as naive. Simply she was a busy working mother with small children. Most wives wouldn't consider their husband the serial killer, even if one was on the loose. Especially so after Paul fed her the line about the babysitter affair. She was knocked off her feet by that alone, as most women would if they weren't already suspecting an affair.  I honestly felt bad for Sally-Anne. The police trailed her for days and saw no evidence of her abetting Paul; she merely got caught up in a lie he asked her to make. Stella was particularly cold too upon learning that Sally lost her baby during incarceration and might not make an exciting witness against him after all.  I was glad to see Sally not acknowledge Stella when Olivia was returned to her, and found myself hoping that Sally sued the department for the damages to her house as well as for emotion distress that caused her miscarriage, whether she wanted the baby or not. Though I don't know how Ireland's laws work in that manner, in the US I'd imagine she'd have a rather sensational case. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Peanut6711

[myril]

On 8/2/2016 at 5:19 PM, Peanut6711 said:

 I was glad to see Sally not acknowledge Stella when Olivia was returned to her, and found myself hoping that Sally sued the department for the damages to her house as well as for emotion distress that caused her miscarriage, whether she wanted the baby or not. Though I don't know how Ireland's laws work in that manner, in the US I'd imagine she'd have a rather sensational case. 

It's Northern Ireland, which has its own jurisdiction while being a part of the UK, it's similar to England law but not all the same, in case you want to look up some day about the laws applying to the show's story. 

A sensational case she maybe would get, but doesn't mean Sally would succeed with it. One can question, if the emotional stress which might have lead to her miscarriage was result of the police work or result of her realization what the man did who she's married to and who is father of her kids. Sally already has enough sensation to deal with, media and particular yellow press feast on such a story anyway, so I am not sure if suing the department would be really in her interest. DCI Eastwood said, there will be an enquiry by the way.

I get the sympathy for Sally, she's in an awful situation and has deserved nothing of this. Calling her "stupid and incurious" is hard, but on the other hand Sally did ignore things, she acted stupid, no matter what "good" (in the sense of understandable) reasoning she had for herself given her situation. Spector lied to her, he told her he had been in a relationship with their babysitter, a minor (age of consent in Northern Ireland is 16, Katie was 15), which is a sexual offense according to law, regardless what part Katie had in it. Sally broke up with Paul for a short time, but they get back together. She later wondered even, after talking to Katie, if Paul was lying and might have raped Katie. When they were arrested, Sally first thought, it was because of whatever happened between Paul and Katie. While she didn't know about what her husband was really doing and innocent in that, she did choose to turn a blind eye on some things.  I would say, that was naive. Sure she was hoping by keeping silent and hiding things that somehow it would turn out okay, but things never turn out okay that way, more likely you make things even worse. I can feel compassion for Sally, particular for her miscarriage, and at the same time think, that she was stupid and made a huge mistake turning a blind eye the way she did. 

Maybe Stella could have shown a moment of compassion, but she was not shown as a type to show much compassion, warmth anyway. Not for adults, the one time she showed some feelings, or compassion, was when she was listening in on the interview with the child. Pretty sure most people would describe Stella more as an Ice Queen. She does have feelings, she shows them, but that happens usually very subtle, very controlled. She said and did some hurtful and questionable things all over the seasons. Still nothing that makes anything that Spector said something I could get any whiff of joy out. She doesn't get his situation he was in with having little children while "only" stalking women, holding back his compulsion to do more? Well, hopefully not.  Paul called Stella a "barren spinster" to belittle  her, to humiliate her, to hurt her by trying to question her womanhood, her humanity just based on that she is not married and has no kids. Stella might deserve some criticism but not that kind of offense.

 

[zxy556575]

Teaser trailers for season 3 and some casting notes. Mild spoilers if you don't want to know anything. No release date yet.

The worst news for me is Eyebrows Jim being back because I'm not sure I can take any more of his perma-face expression of worry and trepidation, underlaid with sexual longing. Ick!

Edited August 23, 2016 by lordonia

[ali59]

I was wondering why the episode titles here are different from the titles on Netflix.  Season 2, episode 1 is supposed to be "These Troublesome Disguises" but Previously has it as "Walk the Line."

[joelene]

We got a date! September 29th!

https://thekillingtimestv.wordpress.com/2016/09/14/bbc-confirms-transmission-date-season-three-of-the-fall/

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Stella Gibson has finally arrested Paul Spector, but he has been shot by jealous husband James Tyler, leaving the staff at Belfast General Hospital battling to save his life. As the shooting hits the news, the powers-that-be question Gibson's handling of the case, while Spector's young partner-in-crime Katie plots to help him.

[formerlyfreedom]

Because the airdates for this show aren't already confusing enough.... ;)

The official date is from the UK debut, which will occur on Thursday, 29 September 2016 on BBC Two. HOWEVER - the show will premiere in the Republic of Ireland on Sunday, 25 September on RTÉ One.

The Netflix date in the US has not been released as of yet. As always, entering an episode topic for an episode you have not viewed WILL SPOIL YOU!

[maraleia]

I just read that Netflix will have it available in the states on October 29th.

[atomationage]

Did anyone watch yet?  I'll wait to watch until someone else wants to talk about it.  ...I couldn't wait. 

The first 3 minutes are the previous episode.  Then they go into a fantasy of a car crash.  Then the ambulance ride.  Richard Coyle is the doctor at the casualty center, Dr. J. O'Donell, ED consultant at Belfast General Hospital, doing a good Irish accent.  One of the nurses speaks exactly like Bronagh Waugh, the actress who plays Mrs. Specter.  That was pretty distracting.   Well, Specter is nearly dead, probably temporarily.  Then to the police station, about making a public statement.   Colin Morgan's character is only wounded in the arm, but he's going to be out of action.  Cut to Mrs. Specter and an older woman I don't remember seeing before, being informed by an officer.  Back to surgery with a different doctor.  Specter dies on the table.   Light at the end of the tunnel.  Mommy or daughter.  He's back.  Gross Stuff, a bloody mess.  Halfway point. 

Bronagh Waugh, Mrs. Specter talking to the kids.  Then GA and Colin Morgan, he is mad at her for being more worried about Specter than him, but not too mad.   Back to Richard Coyle giving some history to a colleague.  It's the same as Dr. Watson in Sherlock.   Stella and the office on the press statement.   She's in trouble with the chief.  Specter is all cleaned up in recovery. Stella is with Rose Stagg's husband, bringing him to see her.   Police statement in front of cameras,  Paul's young girlfriend is watching it on the TV.  Her mum is making a big fuss.  She's making a big fuss with her friends too.  Cut to music and filler of people staring at things.   Mrs. Specter's daughter wants to get in the bed with her.  She has the same Toshiba laptop I have.  Daughter sees the mug shot of her dad.  Back to the Staggs in hospital.   Mr. Stagg is blaming himself, then his wife, then Specter.  Stella explains consent.  Rose didn't want any tea.  (see tea consent video).  Stella says "Tomorrow is another day".    Stella goes to Specter's room.   What are we supposed to think that she's attracted to him?  Nurse tells her to Please Leave.   Stella finds an old woman in the hospital, comforts her.  Nurse is getting freaked out by Specter,  His eyes open, maybe?

Edited October 1, 2016 by atomationage

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Gibson and Burns are hauled over the coals by the Police Ombudsman and the Policing Executive for their conduct and handling of the case. When Spector's name is released to the press as the arrested suspect in the Belfast Strangler case, his wife and family are forced to deal with the consequences. Katie enraged at the media treatment of him, decides to take matters into her own hands. All the while Nurse Kiera Sheridan and the medical team continue to fight to keep Spector alive. But even if he survives will he ever be fit enough to stand trial?

[pamplemousse]

I thought it was incredibly dull. I'll give this season one more episode, but I have a feeling that I'll abandon the show after that. I've just completely lost interest in the Paul Spector case. I think it's been dragged out for too long and Jamie Dornan's acting is just mind-numbingly boring. I'm even starting to get annoyed and impatient with Gillian Anderson in this and I usually enjoy her work very much.

[atomationage]

Yeah, I don't see how they can drag the Spector case out for another season and keep it interesting.  My guess is that the people at the hospital will become part of what happens next.  I was surprised to see Richard Coyle, and hope that he will be in more episodes.

Edited October 2, 2016 by atomationage
hope

[pamplemousse]

Also, I really enjoyed Gillian Anderson in X-Files and Hannibal, but I find her acting quirks/methods/whatever one might term it in this show, rather irritating. The constant low whispering and mumbling when she talks, her English accent. Regarding the latter, I know she spends a lot of time in the UK, but sorry, I just find her accent unconvincing.

Stella's seeming fascination with Paul Spector, which is sometimes portrayed by the show almost as a personal attraction, is off-putting because it strikes me as cliched storytelling, unprofessional, and not very realistic. 

[John Potts]

Yeah, while I quite like Casualty: Belfast (and I loved the Doctor), it did seem a completely different show from last Seasons. It doesn't help that I find Paul Spector far less interesting than either Stella or the writers seem to: while she was going "will he be alright?" I was going, "Never mind the rapist/murderer, what about the cop!?" (and even I'd forgotten there was another shooting victim, the UDA/UVF guy). If we had to follow up on anyone, I'd prefer us to follow up on either what happens to the kidnap victim, Paul's family or even Katie (even though I think she's a stupid little girl). Still prefer Stella to go elsewhere and investigate a different murder case (which actually wouldn't be too much of a break from reality to have a major rape/murder case every couple of years) - I guess they'd want to keep it in Northern Ireland, which would be less likely (unless it were terror related, but the writers seem to be steering clear of that angle).

Do find Gillian Anderson's accent rather affected: still don't know why they couldn't have had her having been on secondment with the FBI/done a Doctorate at Harvard and just let her use her natural accent. But too late for that now.

[LilaFowler]

Ugh, this show and it's medical/surgical shots.  Gag.  I don't have the stomach for it even though I know it's fake.  So far it's been a little boring, which makes me sad because the first two seasons were so good.  I don't really care about the psycho teenage babysitter or the nurse that seems to be falling for him.  I feel really sorry for Sally and the kids.  What would you do if you were her?

Both nurse Kiera and his attorney's legal secretary are right up his rape and murder alley.  He'll probably try to kill one of them.

I'll continue to watch this show purely out of curiosity to see where they'll take it.  Ending it with Season 2 and the audience not knowing if Spector or his last victim survived would have been frustrating but better than dragging something out with no real direction or plot.

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Spector's heal stabilizes; his legal team is determined to keep him from trial.

 

[SparedTurkey]

The only thing that bugs me about the show, is that Stella seems to have such crap taste in men - which doesn't seem at all the affect they were going for. 

There was the first one (the ultimately dirty(?) cop - I think Olson?) who turned needy and continually sext-ed Stella, Jim - which enough said - and now Anderson who could not sound like more of a sook in this episode - "you sounded anguished" (You slept with her once, you weren't about to be popping down to the registry office buddy). Stella really needs to look at her choices here because she is much better than that. Unless she low-key likes the drama they bring. But at this point, she really needs to give Reed a call because she was by far the best of all options Stella has at her disposal. With a runner-up being Dani and then the admin lady of the team (Mary? I think). Just because they are by far less ridiculous.

[SparedTurkey]

Any chance Spector is bunging on this amnesia crap to get out of the trial? It would be if this was a L&O: SVU episode.

I couldn't see properly - was that lemon juice Katie sprayed in Daisy's eye? Or alcohol? Either way can she get shoved in detention now? The police saw her at the hospital and presumably she has a curfew. Time to go.

Olivia is going to be one messed up individual. I feel like all the non-arrested Spectors should be in therapy. And I don't even like therapy. Although I did like the headmaster saying she had no idea what to do - it had never happened before. At least they get some things right.

And personally if I were Sally-Ann I couldn't have cared less if Paul got a solicitor or not. And I certainly wouldn't be making a call to get him one. Or asking anyone else to do it.

Considering the ICU Nurse and now Legal Associate - one of them is going to get sucked in like a grown up Katie or will be dead.

[zxy556575]

On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:00 PM, pamplemousse said:

I thought it was incredibly dull.

Incredibly! The first hospital ER scene took 15 damned minutes. Am I supposed to be riveted by whether or not nurse X is able to insert a breathing tube? "I see the cords!' Casualty: Belfast, indeed. 

I  have no strong feelings about Gillian Andersen one way or the other, but her encased-in-cotton-wool acting choices in this are very odd. Speak up! Allow your face to move!