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ShadowDenizen

S03.E09: Defiant

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 I really like this episode.  I love the early Dominion and Maquis stuff because it built on prior episodes and laid the ground work for future episodes without being completely serialized, and this episode was a perfect example of this.  Loved Tricia O'Neill as the Obsidian Order agent who viewed both Sisko and Dukat with utter contempt.  And while it's probably an unpopular opinion, I liked Tom Riker.  I was glad they didn't kill him off in his TNG episode (although I wish they stuck to the original plan and killed off Will) but saving him was a moot point since he was never to be seen or mentioned in TNG's run.  This episode brought some purpose and closure to the character.

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I like Tom too, and did not know he was unpopular. I like the use here, and that he did not stay with Starfleet.

Uh, Kira, you have a boyfriend. I know you like Tom, but kissing is a no-no. For the most part, I like the relationship between the two, but since she does have a boyfriend, I wish they had kept it at "she is interested, but not cheating." They had an interesting and fun enough relationship without going there.

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I really like the episode too - it does what DS9 did well: it introduced elements that would become significant later (divisions within Cardassia, the Obsidian Order fleet) without it being the main focus of the episode. I love the idea of Thomas Riker as somebody so desperate to move out of his brother's (father's?) shadow that he's not only prepared to die, but even hand himself over to the Cardassian military (ouch!) for justice. Though I actually disagree with Kira to some extent when she said Thomas wasn't thinking like a terrorist - exposing Cardassian cheating in the DMZ, even if you have to go out in a Blaze of Glory to do so (gaining a political victory at cost of your own life) is very much a terrorist thing to do

On ‎25‎/‎11‎/‎2014 at 4:03 AM, Meushell said:

I know you like Tom, but kissing is a no-no. For the most part, I like the relationship between the two, but since she does have a boyfriend, I wish they had kept it at "she is interested, but not cheating."

Well, YMMV. It looked to me like Thomas surprised her there. Granted she could have protested more, but he was heading into the Cardassian Slammer, so maybe she figured he should have something to remember her by.

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Something I think that was a problem with the entire DMZ was I think they put Starfleet as idiots who wanted everyone to play nice. I was happy that DS9 wrote out Admiral McChariff, she was such a useless character. Something however the bothered me was having Tom show up in classic TNG uniform when Generations had been out a while and he should have been wearing the current uniform. With all that said, I loved the use of Tom, especially his strategy against the Cardassians and how he saw things with the Maquies. 

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I have a continuity nitpick with this episode. The Maqui are able to use the cloaking device as though it's native technology. Yet when the Defiant was first introduced earlier in the season, the Romulans were so territorial about their cloaking technology they demanded a Romulan officer accompany them on their mission into the Gamma quadrant to work the device because they didn't want to tell Starfleet how to use it. So do Starfleet officers know how to use cloaking technology but just don't because they think it's "unfair" or something?

Also, in Star Trek IV The Voyage Home, Kirk's crew seems to know how to use the cloaking device on the Klingon vessel they're using. 

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 The requirement for a Romulan to manage the cloaking device was scrapped immediately after it's introduction in The Search.  As I recall, the writers thought it would be too clunky and limiting to the storytelling to have the character around.  From that point forward O'Brien ad the Starfleet engineers managed the system.  It's later revealed in "Visionary" that the agreement for the loan of the cloak was that the Federation had to provide all their intelligence on the Dominion (basically they wanted the Federation to take all the risks in the Gamma Quadrant and they reap all the rewards).  It actually makes more sense that way.  The Federation had already stolen cloaking technology to study ("The Enterprise Incident") and proven they could build their own improved cloak ("The Pegasus").   It wasn't technical knowledge preventing them from using cloaks it was the Treaty.  

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7 hours ago, Maverick said:

 It's later revealed in "Visionary" that the agreement for the loan of the cloak was that the Federation had to provide all their intelligence on the Dominion (basically they wanted the Federation to take all the risks in the Gamma Quadrant and they reap all the rewards).  It actually makes more sense that way.

That would only make sense (IMO) if the Romulans trusted the Federation to keep their side of the deal. Given Sisko is prepared to violate the agreement if it suits his purposes (for example, he uses the cloak in The Way of the Warrior) and the Romulans aren't exactly known for being trusting of others, it's almost inconceivable that they would take on trust that the Feds would observe their end of the deal.

Though I agree that it's not the technical difficulties of creating a cloaking device that prevents the Feds from developing cloaking technology of their own (as revealed in ST-TNG's The Pegasus) it's a treaty with the Romulans (Treaty of Algernon?). Of course, I have to concur with the Admiral in that episode who states that the Feds were idiotic to agree to such a deal!

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On 4/21/2017 at 4:47 AM, John Potts said:

That would only make sense (IMO) if the Romulans trusted the Federation to keep their side of the deal. Given Sisko is prepared to violate the agreement if it suits his purposes (for example, he uses the cloak in The Way of the Warrior) and the Romulans aren't exactly known for being trusting of others, it's almost inconceivable that they would take on trust that the Feds would observe their end of the deal.

Though I agree that it's not the technical difficulties of creating a cloaking device that prevents the Feds from developing cloaking technology of their own (as revealed in ST-TNG's The Pegasus) it's a treaty with the Romulans (Treaty of Algernon?). Of course, I have to concur with the Admiral in that episode who states that the Feds were idiotic to agree to such a deal!

It also in my opinion became a Treaty that needed to be updated and revisited after the Dominion War was over. Even in Star Trek Nemesis there were times where it seemed like the Romulans had shot themselves in the foot so many times why the Senate was killed at the beginning of the movie. Also, how the Admiral did made good points about how phase cloak was to level the playing field. 

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