S01.E07: He Deserved To Die

[betsyboo]

Rebecca is a monster person made of needles, mud, Fairuza Balk's character from The Craft, and a dub of a dub of a dub of a Sex Pistols album. She's such a cliche of wounded outsider punky unpleasantness. Everything from her is so typical.

 

PERFECT!

 

Did Frank and Laurel actually have sex on a well lit front porch in full view of the neighborhood? I swear I heard a zipper.

Oh, i def think they did. He posted her right up on the bannister railing and went to town.

 

Out of the non-Annalise characters, it's also Michaela, Asher, and Connor that I'm rooting for. I think it's less scripting than the fact they are good enough actors to make you like even unlikeable characters.

 

me too! More dunk Asher, please!

[Bort]

I am puzzled at the "how could they miss a 6 week old fetus" comments.  It was a 6 week old fetus, not 6 month old fetus.  I looked it up, a 6 week old fetus is a quarter of an inch long and the size of a lentil.  Lyla and quarterback had a virginity pact, as far as everyone knew, she was exclusive with him.  It's not inconceivable to me that a medical examiner wouldn't look in her uterus when the injuries were on the head and neck.

 

Also, didn't Rebecca pretty much admit to killing Sam?  Didn't she say she hit him on the head with the trophy?  If so, why all the hype about "just one episode left before we find out who killed Sam".  Unless she didn't really do it.  She sure seemed scared and acted like she had though.  The blood was all over her face and her clothes.  Not Wes, not anyone else.

The pregnancy being missed at the first autopsy makes no sense at all.

Rebecca admitting to killing Sam struck me as a companion to her saying she killed Lila. People already think she did one so why not just dispense with the red tape and get it all over with? Don't think she did either, though I think judging by the blood spatter, she was right there when Sam got clocked.

As for Lila, it seems like Griffin thinks Rebecca did it, Rebecca thinks Sam did it, Sam thinks it was either Griffin, Rebecca or both and I think Bonnie did it.

[PrincessTT]

I didn't get why Wes wasn't talking to Rebecca after the 'breaking the gag order' plan. 

He didn't care that they planted the phone in Griffin's car to frame him for murder, so why would he care that they lied about him being a rapist? 

Or was he just upset because someone else other than him came up with a plan to help her?

[blackwing]

I didn't get why Wes wasn't talking to Rebecca after the 'breaking the gag order' plan. 

He didn't care that they planted the phone in Griffin's car to frame him for murder, so why would he care that they lied about him being a rapist? 

Or was he just upset because someone else other than him came up with a plan to help her?

I thought it was just that he was upset that someone else put their peen into Saint Rebecca.  Surely he couldn't have thought she was a pure innocent, she looks like the definition of trailer trash.  But maybe hearing the admission in court about the details set him off.  He seems to have this irritating need to be her white knight protector; maybe it didn't sit well with him that she actually is a not-so-nice person.

[PrincessTT]

I thought it was just that he was upset that someone else put their peen into Saint Rebecca.  Surely he couldn't have thought she was a pure innocent, she looks like the definition of trailer trash.  But maybe hearing the admission in court about the details set him off.  He seems to have this irritating need to be her white knight protector; maybe it didn't sit well with him that she actually is a not-so-nice person.

 

But he already knows about her being a drug dealer and that didn't bother him. 

 

It was just such an odd reaction from him, given everything that has already happened in past episodes I didn't see anything this time round that warranted him not talking to her like that.

[rubyred]

Reading the comments it strikes me that this entire cast is made of up unlikeable characters. Of course mileages vary, but there's been little attempt to manipulate the audience into rooting for a specific character, depending on that audience member's own biases. Initially I thought that the Wes character was supposed to stand in for the audience, but I've been surprised at how much that has backfired, people actively dislike him for being wide-eyed or naive, instead of rooting for the puppy to prevail over the blanket of cynicism that this show is snuggled under. (Not my best metaphor, but whatever).

I still like Wes and Asher and Connor. Mikaela doesn't impress me - although I thought part of her dismay about the prenup was that she didn't think of it first. Mikaela likes to be the one with the upper hand, and I thought the actress played that scene well. Laurel is a complete cypher to me, I don't get what either Khan or Frank see in her, and Frank I can't respect because of the Laurel thing. Rebecca's a stereotype that I guess has tripped Wes' captain save-a-ho impulse for reasons that are still not clear. She is actively unlikeable. Sam is a philanderer. Bonnie is a bitch. Annalise is driven, cynical, tortured - is she evil? Could be getting close.

Anyway, my point is there's more to dislike about the entire cast of characters than to like. Those that have broken through for me are the ones who have actors who've transcended whatever type they're supposed to represent. It's kind of ballsy for a network show to have an entire cast of reprobates. But it's also kind of dangerous, because even though I like watching OTT craziness part of me still wants to believe that the "good guys" will prevail. Relentless shockers and cynicism will eventually turn me away, if it's not balanced with a strong narrative flow and purpose.

[blackwing]

I completely agree.  Every single character has flaws, some greater than others.  In a way though, it's refreshing.  There's too many shows with Mary Sue types like Meredith Grey.  I think Wes is supposed to be the special snowflake and the Marty Stu of the show, but as far as I'm concerned, it has way backfired with me, I think I dislike him the most.

 

Most of the main characters are cartoons.  Connor the User.  Asher the Egotistical Jerk.  Wes the Marty Stu.  Laurel the Wallflower.  Michaela the Princess.  Frank the Cad.  Bonnie the Ice Queen.  There are secondary characters like Nate and Khan who seem a lot more likeable, but that's probably because they aren't the show's focus.  Of the main characters, I find Michaela the least objectionable.  She's the only one of the group at the murder scene (four plus Rebecca) that seems truly horrified at Sam's murder.  Everyone else seems strangely calm and detached, especially Wes.

Edited November 7, 2014 by blackwing

[helenamonster]

And I dont know why but I keep expect in to hear Wes speaking with Enoch's natural accent. I can't let go of this happening and being the big 'a-ha' moment.

 

In his post-sex rant, he mentioned never having been to Europe. What an odd fact to list about yourself unless you actually have been there. I'm onto you, Dean Thomas.

 

Why does Sam call Rebecca a terrorist? I get he's upset cuz he thinks she killed his hot young baby mama, but murdering one sorority girl does not a terrorist make.

[PrincessTT]

In his post-sex rant, he mentioned never having been to Europe. What an odd fact to list about yourself unless you actually have been there. I'm onto you, Dean Thomas.

 

Why does Sam call Rebecca a terrorist? I get he's upset cuz he thinks she killed his hot young baby mama, but murdering one sorority girl does not a terrorist make.

 

It was Annalise who called her a terrorist first, that was what led into her miscarriages revelation. 

[rubyred]

I think they call her that because they are being "held hostage" by the fact that she knows Sam's "Mr. Darcy." Wes blackmailed Annalise into helping Rebecca, she's not doing it out of the goodness of her heart. She's only concerned that Sam doesn't go down for it.

[bantering]

 

The Wes/Rebecca sex interspersed with the autopsy was so gross. Whose idea was that? And what was its purpose?

Yeah, I found that odd. It didn't help that I find Rebecca pretty annoying to boot. 

Rebecca has this upward tilt to her lips that sometimes makes it seem as if she might be guilty about something, but I'm not sure if that's an unintentional facial expression.

[GaiusB]

This was the best episode so far for me. For two reasons. Firstly there was no case of the week. It was very refreshing the case was relevant to the overall story and i could watch it without an intense desire to fast forward that filler. Secondly because there was a lot of Rebecca, who is my favorite character by far. Other students are just too boring. And less hot. And there is not much chemistry between them. Rebecca and Asher as outsiders atleast provide some needed tension.

 

Regarding of murder, it seems  almost too obvious Wes killed Sam while defending Rebecca. Rebecca "confession" was what she would say to police, and Wes is only one she would be interested to protect. But he was all clean while she was covered in blood, so it is not all 100% clear. I guess its possible she killed him, said it was self-defense (might be true or not), got Wes and all others involved, but than when she saw how Wes is so selflessly protective of her, she developed a conscience and was willing to risk self-defense version then to drag Wes into big trouble. But i can not see this show would go with a complicated character explanation, for sure they will choose some shocking option even at cost of logic and characterization.

Edited November 8, 2014 by GaiusB

[RedheadZombie]

I'm not sure how much longer I can stick with this show.  I just dislike everyone.  I hate the stereotype of the gay man who will have sex with anything that moves.  Then there's the rich kid blowhard who over compensates.  I used to like Laurel, but now she looks like a forty-five year old hag with the low shapeless eyebrows.  She's humorless and seems to constantly frown.  I don't get why she's got two guys fighting over her.

 

I find Mikaela to be a shallow bore, Bonnie's another joyless scowler, and Annalise is a completely unethical and immoral bitch.  I just can't with her heartbroken sorrow filled eyes every time her husband's cheating is addressed.  She would still be banging the cop if he hadn't dumped her for betraying him.

 

Lastly, when Annalise expressed relief for all her miscarriages, I'm sure there are some hypothetical children out there thanking God as well.  I see her as the lawyer version of Ellis Grey.

[Chas411]

 

Of the main characters, I find Michaela the least objectionable.  She's the only one of the group at the murder scene (four plus Rebecca) that seems truly horrified at Sam's murder.  Everyone else seems strangely calm and detached, especially Wes.

 

I would argue that Connor seems to be just a traumatised as well. He's just chanelling it into an aggressive meltdown while Michaela is having an emotional breakdown. The other three seem indifferent to what's occurred though and are more interested in protecting themselves.

 

Laurel grates and this Laurel/Frank epic wuv storyline is the pits. Where did this love come from? I don't get it at all. I feel like the writers are trying to sell them as this epic affair that neither actor can sell. Laurel bugs me as well in general. I think it's a combination of her sickly sweet yet very whiny voice and the fact that I always feel she's trying to be the do gooder of the bunch (save for Wes when it comes to Rebecca) and thinks she has more morals then the rest and for that she's better then them. I don't know what it is exactly about her but I really dislike her...

 

Also, the sex scene on the street basically.. I get what they were going for with that but jesus it failed for me.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Chas411

[mikem]

I have to agree with you guys about the characters being kind of unlikable.  I like to watch Connor and Asher and Annelise on screen, and to a lesser extent Michaela, but I wouldn't want to pal around with any of them in real life.  They're all self-centered, selfish people.  And Wes/Rebecca/Frank/Laurel/Bonnie are all grating.  From the title of the show, and the fact that it's a multi-season series, I'm guessing that the group will get away with Sam's murder, but even if Sam ends up being completely despicable and his death completely justifiable, I'm not sure how satisfying seeing this bunch get away with it will be.

 

I orginally thought that Wes was supposed to be the "good guy," but the show's made it pretty clear that he's just as manipulative and selfish as the rest of them.

 

I don't really understand the Frank/Laurel/Kan dynamic.  If there's anyone on the show who's a Marty Sue, it's Kan.  He's the perfect boyfriend.  So why isn't Laurel happy with him?  I don't sense any chemistry between her and Frank, and the actress playing Laurel gives such flat line readings.   I don't know whether we're supposed to think that Laurel's some tortured rich girl who's purposely sabotaging her perfect relationship, or if she and Frank are supposed to have this unstoppable attraction, but I'm not seeing either. 

[KaveDweller]

Lyla and quarterback had a virginity pact, as far as everyone knew, she was exclusive with him.  It's not inconceivable to me that a medical examiner wouldn't look in her uterus when the injuries were on the head and neck.

 

Since sex/love gone wrong is a pretty popular motive for murder, I would think pregnancy would automatically be checked for when a young woman is killed in a violent crime. The police shouldn't just take the fact that her friends say she had a virginity pact or was exclusive as fact.  She was murdered so there's obviously something other people didn't know about.

[loki567]

I actually like the, "unsympathetic characters," thing. One of my favorite things about Shonda shows, her writers bring some cable-like moral ambiguity onto network television. I don't hate any of these characters yet and I don't necessarily need to like all of them this early on. Just enough to keep me interested. 

 

I actually do like Rebecca though. I know the broken bird thing is a cliche but I feel like the actress does a solid job with it. I'm guessing the show is indicating that Wes/Rebecca won't work. And I'm not just talking about the sex/autopsy scene. The writers made it clear that Wes has white knight issues right after Rebecca accuses him of having white knight issues. That is never a good recipe for a relationship, fictional or real. And I've never gotten the feeling that the audience is suppose to be rooting for the Wes/Rebecca pairing. 

[ShadowSixx]

I would argue that Connor seems to be just a traumatised as well. He's just chanelling it into an aggressive meltdown while Michaela is having an emotional breakdown. The other three seem indifferent to what's occurred though and are more interested in protecting themselves.

 

At first I only seen Michaela as the only one who's visibly shaken by the whole thing and don't like anything that's going on and doesn't want to participate in it and have to do things against her will. I've seen Connor be upset with it too, in an episode he said something along the lines of can't believe that it's happening or can't believe he's doing this, something to that affect.

 

While Wes just wants to protect the goth bitch, Laurel is just a stone cold bitch, you can never tell what she's thinking because she frowns at everything.  I wonder how Asher would behave if he was part of it, don't think he could fill the douche role because Wes has filled that spot.  

[theatremouse]

Man, am I over the sex scenes on this show. Straight, gay, I don't care. They all scream "look how edgy we are with all our sex scenes". They all go on too long. They don't advance the plot any more than something more subtle (or just plain shorter) would. It also doesn't help that I don't see chemistry between any of these people. I mean, I'm not a super prude when it comes to television but particularly on this show it keeps striking me as filler. Like they don't have enough in the actual episode so they keep throwing in sex scenes to fill time. Because, you know, they're not filling enough time replaying the coin flip flashback montage in various permutations. Every. Time. (I do get that they're trying to do a "show the same bit but with a little more info each time" thing but it's not well executed for me.)

 

 

Rebecca is an idiot, why prank call 911 knowing that 911 can trace it and arrest her for misuse of 911.

The problem with this isn't just that, and I agree with others that she was doing it for real and panicked and said it was a prank. The problem is they wouldn't just trace it and fine her for abusing 911 (I'm pretty sure it's usually just a hefty fine?). They'd still show up. They have to. What if she were in real peril and she called, but then the person caught her or threatened her and made her say it was a prank and hang up? They don't know. So they'd send someone anyway to check out the situation. Now I don't know if I trust this show to be realistic, but if it is, we should very soon see cops showing up at her door. So whatever her original intent were in calling, false confession, whatnot, if Wes is about to come back, he should find cops there. So that's maybe, possibly, hopefully a source of something interesting about to happen?

 

My current take is this: Wes and Rebecca are both manipulators. Wes is probably the better of the two. If we assume she was talking through a planned confession, what she would say, and that she did not kill Sam, then possibly she was calling to either do that (maybe pull a Gone Girl) or say Wes did it and kidnapped her. Or something. Wes is so....nothing...that I'm left thinking he's definitely running a long con, but I'm not sure exactly what or if Rebecca's playing into what he wanted or not. I don't think they're on a long con together from the start because the initial scenes of them meeting, I think, either disprove that or if it turns out to be the case, means bad writing. Because some of what would need to have been misdirect about their initial meeting could only possibly be for the benefit of the home viewer. If they really knew each other all along but had to play it like they didn't, that'd only apply when anyone else were there to potentially see or hear it.

Edited November 8, 2014 by theatremouse

[April Bloodgate]

Count me in as another who isn't really interested in Michaela. I think she's boring and annoying as the perfect little rich girl. Connor and Asher are the characters I care about. (Nate and Kan too, if they had more screen time.) I'm still interested in Wes just because I want to know what his deal is/what he's hiding, but I don't necessarily care about him.

[Eolivet]

Besides, what does Lila being pregnant do, besides add another charge against the defendants and give Annalise one more reason to be mad at Sam? He's dead in two weeks anyway.

 

It gives her a fantastic motive for murder, especially since any prosecutor will bring up Annalise's miscarriages. Killing her husband over an affair with a college girl is believable, but killing her husband over him getting another girl pregnant makes a lot more sense.

 

Refresh my memory how Wes knew Lila, and what possible motive he could have for killing her? I hope they don't go "Primal Fear" on Wes. I think it's more likely he's supposed to be a sympathetic everyman, who's just not coming across as sympathetic.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Eolivet

[KnoxForPres]

I did a legit laugh out loud when Bonnie (or Annalise) asked Asher if he was drunk and he replied "hammered".

I'm not sure I've ever watched a character as boring as Laurel. I feel exhausted when she's onsreen. She is a horrible actress. Which is weird for my brain because it "sees" Jennifer Connely in Requiem for a Dream and then realizes it's not and feels tired :)

So I know that I will have an opinion of one on this, but I don't think Viola Davis is all that great either. This is my first time watching her so maybe that's why? I think every line is delivered the same and I don't like her breakdowns. A breakdown done right, a person who really seems to feel pain, sadness, regret whatever typically moves me and I feel emotionally attached. When Viola breaks down, I am always taken out of the scene and analyzing the break as opposed to feeling it. I know, you guys will forever hate me and for that I am sorry.

To dial out at work I have to hit 91+number. One time I hit 911 and I didn't know. They called me back within a millisecond. I said I worked for a corporation and they said that happens frequently but they then called the guards desk to verify I indeed was not in peril. Kind of bad ass in reality. So "sorry this was a prank" wouldn't make them go "ok! Have a great night" and not follow up. Why the hell did they need that lame ass scene anyway?

I've watched way too many true crime shows to know that, sadly, pregnancy can be motive for murder. Bet that's one of the first things they check. Fail on writers part.

Damn I can't stop. When at da club and the girl Connor was walking to said a girl will forgive anything if a guy gets flowers, umm no. Cheat on me and buy a few roses? Yeah, speak for yourself.

[FozzyBear]

Rebecca saying to Wes "He deserves to die" and "I had to kill him" is all red herring talk, right?

.

That's what I thought. I thought she was telling him that this is the story they can go with; She killed him in self defense. If the DA believes her great, if not she's going to jail for murder anyway. Why not tack on one more? I don't think it's what actually happened.

[PrincessTT]

So Wes leaving Rebecca in the motel room while him and the others got rid of the body means that she's the only one without an alibi. 

[shapeshifter]

Rebecca saying to Wes "He deserves to die" and "I had to kill him" is all red herring talk, right?

That's what I thought. I thought she was telling him that this is the story they can go with; She killed him in self defense. If the DA believes her great, if not she's going to jail for murder anyway. Why not tack on one more? I don't think it's what actually happened.

Right. And I assumed Wes killed him. But maybe not. Maybe Annalise. Or one of the other hamsters. I assumed it was Wes because Rebecca would be wanting to protect him since he has gone to bat for her and is now her twu wuv. But maybe not. Maybe Wes didn't actually do the killing, but would be guilty of being an accessory to the crime if Rebecca doesn't cop to it.

At this point it wouldn't be surprising if Sam was running after someone to prevent them from sharing knowledge of his being the dead girl's fetus's father, and he slipped on a banana peal and fell on the trophy head first (kind of like in Breaking Bad).

[2KllMckngBrd]

Yeah, Lila being pregnant was definitely no big shock reveal. I guessed it as soon as Sam readily presented himself with a way to block the exhumation.

 

On another note, I've been seeing the furor online about people being grossed out by all the gay sex in Shonda's shows and you know what? Wes and Rebecca's sex scene grossed me out more than any gay scene ever could (It also helps that Connor's hot as hell so...).

Didn't see Lila being preggers. But that wasn't what shocked me. What got me was the who, how, and reaction to that info. That Sam, Analise, and Bonnie is some shady, and confusing business. But more on that later. 

 

I have also seen the furor, as well as Shonda's reaction to it. And she and I are in agreement on this 1. You don't wanna see 2 men get it on, don't watch. I personally have zero prob w/hot sex. Couldn't give 2 shits about whether that sex is straight or gay. But that sex scene between Wes and Rebecca was gross, not hot. First b/c there is zero chemistry between the two. And 2nd b/c it was interspersed w/an autopsy. I am aware that that is an old tv trope, but I have seen it done well, and this 1 wasn't. It gave me a raging case of the eww's.

 

 

Connor has had a sex scene in four out of seven episodes, a lot but not actually every week.  Part of his character is he is sexual though so it fits, right now one of his main plotlines is dealing with the repercussions of his wanton sexual behavior, 

I have mentioned this before on ep discussions and tweeted it as well. I don't care if Connor is swinging from a chandelier and doing the nasty in bathroom stalls in every episode. I would just like to see the actor, and the character do more than that. Connor being very sexual works for the storylines', and the actor is so sexy, but I never see him doing much "lawyering/interning" w/his clothes on. That would be my only issue w/the frequent sex.

 

 

Back to Analise, Sam, and Bonnie. It is clear Bonnie has a thing for Sam. Unrequited? I think so. Unknown? Seems not. Not by Sam, or Analise. But all of that fuels the belief I have had from the beginning. Sam killed Lila. And Bonnie killed Sam. The Keating 5 (and word to think of the "5" every time they say that, lol) are covering up the murder b/c the believe Analise did it. 

 

If I'm wrong about Sam and Bonnie, then that raises even more questions about Analise and Bonnie's relationship going forward.

[DeeDee79]

Despite her fake tears and Wes's gullible insistence I don't think Rebecca is as pristine as he seems to think. I don't know if I buy that she killed Lila but she strikes me as shady and manipulative. Or maybe that's my extreme dislike clouding my judgement. Asher is edging out Connor as my favorite; he's entertaining whenever he's on screen while Connor's hypersexuality is starting to wear on me. I'm confused about Annalise and Nate; he seems to be over his relationship with her but why does he still come running when she calls for help? Hmm...

 

Oh I almost forgot: I could've done without the unsexy Wes/Rebecca sex scene. Ick.

Edited November 8, 2014 by DeeDee79

[possibilities]

Missing the pregnancy during the first autopsy could be bad writing, or could be corrupt coroner. Everyone else is being paid off or corrupted in some other way, why not the guy who did Lila's autopsy? Maybe he's Sam's buddy and suppressed the evidence, or he's a drunk himself and simply did a sloppy job.

 

Not liking anyone is making me totally unstressed worrying about who did the murders. I would not be crushed by the revelation of any of the available suspects being guilty. It's plausible to me that any of them could be the one, and it's also no loss if/when they get sent away or otherwise cut from the cast. I'm just not that attached. Usually shows get attached to their villains and keep them around too long. With this show, I can't imagine anyone caring enough about any of the characters or actors, except for Annalise, to actually need to keep them around too long.

 

Also, I am cynical and disgusted enough about our legal system that I can kind of buy that no one is likable. If they were making a family drama or a show about an elementary school, I'd want there to be at least a few characters I liked.

Edited November 9, 2014 by possibilities

[ToukieSmith]

I don't like any of the sex scenes and I think they are inappropriate for network TV.  I think the scenes are being used as story filler and I want more story, less gratuitous sex.

[shapeshifter]

I don't like any of the sex scenes and I think they are inappropriate for network TV.  I think the scenes are being used as story filler and I want more story, less gratuitous sex.

In general, I agree with not wanting to see sex scenes, because invariably they are used gratuitously--that is, I can imagine some network person ordering: More sex scenes, dammit!! Heh.

But in this episode in particular I saw for the first time (for me) a sex scene between two men that actually succeeded in being gratuitous, which at this time in society serves a greater purpose, IMO.

However, if the reason they cut the heterosexual sex scene with the autopsy was to make it less appealing in comparison to the Connor and What'sHisName hookup--well, I think it was unnecessary and ineffective.

IDK, was there another reason for cutting the Wes and Rachel hookup with the autopsy? To say they're dancing on a grave?

[Haleth]

It seems wrong to watch little Dean Thomas having sex. That's just icky.

The problem with this show is not only that everyone is unlikeable, they are also poorly written and poorly acted. I don't get any sense that these characters have real emotions or motivations or relationships with each other and therefore they can't ask the audience to care about them. They are a bunch of cardboard cutouts. I'm only watching to find out who killed Lila but I'm anticipating a disappointing reveal.

[KFC]

The problem with this show is not only that everyone is unlikeable, they are also poorly written and poorly acted. I don't get any sense that these characters have real emotions or motivations or relationships with each other and therefore they can't ask the audience to care about them. They are a bunch of cardboard cutouts. I'm only watching to find out who killed Lila but I'm anticipating a disappointing reveal.

 

I don't mind them being unlikeable, I just dislike what I perceive as a lack of connective threads in the characters' actions. The Laurel/Frank thing seemed like a suckerpunch of plausibility. Bonnie can tell us all she wants that Laurel is "leading Frank on," but I never actually saw that in the episode leading up to their hookup. Yeah, they had been hinting at it, but mostly it seemed like the show just wanted us to buy them as a pairing based on telling us in the pilot that Laurel had a "sexy" (ick) bedroom pic of Frank on her phone. It seems more like "hey, we need to give Frank and Laurel something juicy to do, so why not do each other?"

 

Same thing with Wes and Rebecca. I'm hoping we get some explanation that Wes is a psychopath or is gonna pull off his wig of crazy, Melrose Place/Dr. Kimberly Shaw style, because I'm seeing nothing on screen that makes me interested in why he's protecting Rebecca.

 

I even feel like Viola is overacting at times to cover up for lapses in the writing. The words aren't doing enough of the heavy storytelling lifting for her, so she's constantly turning up the dial to 10 to cover for it.

[racked]

It's a little depressing to me how little I like Bonnie. I loved Paris Gellar so much. But Bonnie is dull and whoever called her a scowler is right.

The show needs more wittiness. Asher provides the only levity.

[theatremouse]

I think I may have decided the guy playing Frank is a bad actor. Originally I blamed the writing, or mostly blamed the writing and was undecided on his acting. Gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he just wasn't a good enough actor to make something out of the not great writing. But after this one, clearly, they must be giving him some sort of direction on who he's supposed to be. SOMETHING. But it seems like he's playing nothing, and there were choices he could've made that would've read one way or another or as intentionally ambiguous. But I'm not getting "ambiguous" right now. I'm getting something more akin to it seeming like nobody's told him anything about who he's supposed to be. Now maybe they didn't, but a better actor would make a choice and play something.

[helenamonster]

It gives her a fantastic motive for murder, especially since any prosecutor will bring up Annalise's miscarriages. Killing her husband over an affair with a college girl is believable, but killing her husband over him getting another girl pregnant makes a lot more sense.

 

Refresh my memory how Wes knew Lila, and what possible motive he could have for killing her? I hope they don't go "Primal Fear" on Wes. I think it's more likely he's supposed to be a sympathetic everyman, who's just not coming across as sympathetic.

 

But I think the show implied pretty heavily last episode that Annalise didn't kill Sam. She came home, and he and her rug were missing, and she immediately called Bonnie, most likely hoping to God that he was shacking up with her than where she had a pretty good feeling he was. However, nothing is set in stone yet about Sam's murder. Hell, this week they had Rebecca "confessing" all to Wes only to promote the hashtag #WhoKilledSam at the end of the episode. I guess there's really no way of knowing until we actually see trophy meet cranium.

 

As far as we know, Wes didn't know Lila, and any motive he might have for killing her is nonexistent at this point. While I definitely think there's something sketchy about him (and I don't think it's just fan speculation in reaction to potentially poor writing/acting at this point, they've paid enough lip service to something being not quite right about him), I'm not quite sure him murdering Lila is it. Though it is totally in the realm of possibility. I mean, the fact that he happened to show up the same day she went missing, along with some of the other sketchy things that have already been mentioned...it could happen.

 

However, if the reason they cut the heterosexual sex scene with the autopsy was to make it less appealing in comparison to the Connor and What'sHisName hookup--well, I think it was unnecessary and ineffective.

IDK, was there another reason for cutting the Wes and Rachel hookup with the autopsy? To say they're dancing on a grave?

 

Perhaps it's just my dislike for the pairing clouding my judgment, but I think Wes and Rebecca intercut with the autopsy was the show's way of telling us that we are not supposed to be rooting for this couple, and discouraging any shippers of theirs that might be out there.

[shapeshifter]

...Perhaps it's just my dislike for the pairing clouding my judgment, but I think Wes and Rebecca intercut with the autopsy was the show's way of telling us that we are not supposed to be rooting for this couple, and discouraging any shippers of theirs that might be out there.

Ah. Good point. Those pesky shippers. Plus, now that you mention it, perhaps the intercut of the 2 scenes was to emphasize that what they were engaging in was wrong because they are in a type of client-provider relationship--involving nothing less than a murder.

Hrmmm...so...now the comparison of the (to me) arousing sex scene between Connor and a virtual stranger in contrast with the distasteful (at least because of the interspersed autopsy views) sex scene between Wes and Rachel, seems to be trying to tell us that what Wes and Rachel are doing is much worse than casual sex in a public restroom.

--unless, of course, all of the sex on the show is there because TPTB are in the wings yelling: More sex, dammit! (as I suggested above).

Edited November 9, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Eolivet]

But I think the show implied pretty heavily last episode that Annalise didn't kill Sam. She came home, and he and her rug were missing, and she immediately called Bonnie, most likely hoping to God that he was shacking up with her than where she had a pretty good feeling he was.

 

Oh, I understand this. I'm just saying by introducing the fact that Lila was pregnant, the show has now given Annalise a much stronger motive to kill Sam -- one that if her students found out, they might be even more compelled to try to cover up his murder. Since Annalise would likely be the prime suspect, I'm speculating how this news about Lila might strengthen the prosecution's case against Annalise for Sam's murder, and one more reason why her students would risk life and limb to cover it up -- that they know she'd be the prime suspect (and it seems like they wouldn't do it to save Rebecca or whoever the killer was).

 

I apologize if that wasn't clear.

[Deanie87]

I am getting the feeling that between all of the flashbacks/forwards/sideways and sex scenes, there really isn't much plot here.

I can't really decide if I like certain aspects of the show but not the show as a whole or if I like the show overall but hate certain aspects of it. Either way, something just ain't working for me.

[KnoxForPres]

I am getting the feeling that between all of the flashbacks/forwards/sideways and sex scenes, there really isn't much plot here.

I can't really decide if I like certain aspects of the show but not the show as a whole or if I like the show overall but hate certain aspects of it. Either way, something just ain't working for me.

You just nailed it. Nice work! Is there a plot? Is that why my "weekly" posts are always broad and never specific?. Not a damn thing happens in this show.

[Seelouis]

That's what I thought. I thought she was telling him that this is the story they can go with; She killed him in self defense. If the DA believes her great, if not she's going to jail for murder anyway. Why not tack on one more? I don't think it's what actually happened.

I think this might be why they included the scene where Rebecca was "confessing" to killing Lila when they were preparing her for trial. It's the same thing. She is now making up a story of how she killed Sam, just like she said she killed Lila but was lying.

[bantering]

I think there's a plot. I just don't think there's enough explanation (or is it characterization?) to explain why the characters would go to these great lengths to help out Wes and Rebecca. But maybe next week that will be revealed. I'm just getting impatient waiting for that reveal to happen.

 

I also want to know why Laurel seems kind of evil. At least Connor and Michaela seem capable of looking at the ambiguity of a situation and understanding  how that makes them participants in something pretty dastardly. I think Asher, in contrast to his bro persona, may be the most human (and says stuff that most people in real life would probably be thinking). 

 

I just find Rebecca unpleasant. I think that kind of roughness can be appealing or charming on rare occasions, but it takes a very gifted actress to pull it off (like Sandra Oh on Grey's Anatomy -- is that what the actress playing Rebecca is going for??)

 

I think I would like Wes, even in all his stupid glory, if he didn't like Rebecca.

Edited November 10, 2014 by bantering

[Deanie87]

You just nailed it. Nice work! Is there a plot? Is that why my "weekly" posts are always broad and never specific?. Not a damn thing happens in this show.

Most episodes just follow the same pattern: flashback to the night of the bonfire, case of the week complete with flases, 2-3 sex scenes, One scene of Viola breaking down and then a huge bombshell dropped in the last minute or two that sort of moves the mystery forward.

It's entertaining, but, for me, it's also instantly forgettable..

[truthaboutluv]

In my opinion, I think the show does have a plot and it's surprising reading the comments that some don't think so since for the first three episodes or so, there were a lot of comments every week from posters constantly confused by what was going on and not understanding what was happening because there was so much going on at once. The show has two murder mysteries going on, there is the case of week that some have said they actually don't care for and find to be filler, and the flash-forwards to the night of the murder has been used everytime to flesh out a little more each one of the Keating 5. I think the characters so far who haven't gotten any real voice is Bonnie and Frank because they haven't had an episode focused on them.

 

Now I'm not saying all of this is done exceptionally well but it's why I definitely disagree that the show does not have a plot. I would feel that way if we were only getting a case of the week every episode that Annalise and her students solved, with no backstory on who Annalise is and/or any of the students. Then I would feel like the show basically had no plot. Honestly, in my opinion, the show's problem is that it has too many plots. While I enjoy all the drama and action going on, I actually think the show would have done better with a more subdued and slowed down first season. I get it, I get that they were going for as much shock and intrigue as possible and this is not surprising coming from a writer who worked with Shonda on Scandal. 

 

But that said, I really think the show would have been stronger and tighter if the first season only focused on the mystery of Lila's murder, along with the proverbial cases of the week. A lot of the shocking parts of this season would have still existed - the reveal of Sam's having an affair with Lila, Rebecca and her boring, soul sucking, unpleasant presence would still be there, Wes' annoyingly cloying obsession with Rebecca, etc. Then the season could have ended on Annalise getting Rebecca off for Lila's murder and then later the reveal Sam did murder Lila and him and Rebecca end up in some confrontation that ends where this season started. That is, with Sam dead and four of the Keating 5 present without the viewers knowing what happened. So then viewers would have that shocking ending to look forward to for the next season. 

 

I mean I'm sure they'll go for some big shocking finale this season too but with so much already happening and so many tales spinning and so many people involved, I just think the show runs the risk of burning through plotlines and getting increasingly dumber and over the top to keep things interesting. 

Edited November 10, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Casually Observant]

I don't really understand the Frank/Laurel/Kan dynamic.  If there's anyone on the show who's a Marty Sue, it's Kan.  He's the perfect boyfriend.  So why isn't Laurel happy with him?  I don't sense any chemistry between her and Frank, and the actress playing Laurel gives such flat line readings.   I don't know whether we're supposed to think that Laurel's some tortured rich girl who's purposely sabotaging her perfect relationship, or if she and Frank are supposed to have this unstoppable attraction, but I'm not seeing either.

Yes, Laurel is a boring, flat dish rag of a character to me, Kan seems to be an idealistic decent sort and Frank seems like another decent, attractive guy. Here are my questions:

First, isn't Frank an attorney working under Annalise? If not, what is he? Because the warning Bonnie gave to Laurel about not breaking Frank's heart and being a "rich girl" who's going to love and leave the poor, working class guy makes no sense. Laurel is a first year law student. Frank's an attorney. Seems to me, the situation is reversed from what Bonnie said. Or did I miss something? And, when did we learn Laurel was rich? Someone clue me in, please.

Second, why do these two, nice-looking men find Laurel so attractive? She's very bland and expressionless, offering bad hair, no discernible makeup, unknown figure, no sexuality or femininity in her actions, just flat & boring. Where is the attraction between any of them? Why was this actress cast in this part? I don't see it! If she was flirtatious, dressed in an attractive way or had a better presentation, maybe I could believe it. But currently, no. Bad acting/casting/or bad writing? You choose.

[bantering]

I'm not surprised Khan likes Laurel. He expressed interest in her, she reciprocated back. Usually, that's all it takes for any kind of romance to take off. It's Frank's crush on her I don't get. She rebuffed him and then he goes all insane looking at a party over the rebuff. Uh, yeah, that's weird. 

[beaker73]

I totally LOL'd at Michaela thinking she had a big deal job interview and then was presented with a pre-nup. 

 

Rebecca and Wes have zero chemistry.  ZERO.  In fact, the only scenes in this show that have any kind of chemistry going on are those that involve Connor.  Thank God we get a lot of them.

 

And count me in with those who saw Lila being preggers a mile away.  Not a big revelation, show.  I'm guessing this is to make the audience think that Sam is the guilty party.  

 

Can we get an Asher spin-off? Please?

[April Bloodgate]

Yes, Laurel is a boring, flat dish rag of a character to me, Kan seems to be an idealistic decent sort and Frank seems like another decent, attractive guy. Here are my questions:

First, isn't Frank an attorney working under Annalise? If not, what is he? Because the warning Bonnie gave to Laurel about not breaking Frank's heart and being a "rich girl" who's going to love and leave the poor, working class guy makes no sense. Laurel is a first year law student. Frank's an attorney. Seems to me, the situation is reversed from what Bonnie said. Or did I miss something? And, when did we learn Laurel was rich? Someone clue me in, please.

Second, why do these two, nice-looking men find Laurel so attractive? She's very bland and expressionless, offering bad hair, no discernible makeup, unknown figure, no sexuality or femininity in her actions, just flat & boring. Where is the attraction between any of them? Why was this actress cast in this part? I don't see it! If she was flirtatious, dressed in an attractive way or had a better presentation, maybe I could believe it. But currently, no. Bad acting/casting/or bad writing? You choose.

 

Frank definitely isn't a lawyer. I forget how they made that clear, but something was said a couple of episodes ago to indicate that he isn't. They haven't explained yet what exactly his position is. Laurel went to Brown, and people have made comments to her on multiple occasions about the types of moneyed girls who go to Brown. Again, I can't remember specifics but I know it's been said.

I don't like the character of Laurel, but I don't find the actress to be unattractive. I think she and Kan are on approximately the same level. Frank is really not my type, so I don't know that I can accurately judge there.

[Princess Sparkle]

I think I may have decided the guy playing Frank is a bad actor. Originally I blamed the writing, or mostly blamed the writing and was undecided on his acting. Gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he just wasn't a good enough actor to make something out of the not great writing. But after this one, clearly, they must be giving him some sort of direction on who he's supposed to be. SOMETHING. But it seems like he's playing nothing, and there were choices he could've made that would've read one way or another or as intentionally ambiguous. But I'm not getting "ambiguous" right now. I'm getting something more akin to it seeming like nobody's told him anything about who he's supposed to be. Now maybe they didn't, but a better actor would make a choice and play something.

Yeah, he was absolutely terrible as Ben on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and he has not gotten any better since then. I do find myself saying "Ben is Glory! Glory is Ben!" when he's onscreen, and that entertains me.

[theatremouse]

Aaaaand my brain just melted. I had not realized yet that that's the same dude. I would've come to that conclusion a lot faster otherwise. Holy crud.

[Coxfires]

I tried but I can't manage to like Rebecca and Wes. I guess that this episode was made to show me an other side of Rebecca but I still find her grating. I mean, none of the Keating 5 are likable people, but I still manage to like them. With Rebecca, she just annoys me. 

As for Wes, we got a little backstory on him, but he falls flat, and I guess his pairing with Rebecca doesn't help.

I try to rationnalize why I have this reaction towards them, but can't pinpoint anything specific. It is not the actors, it is not anything particular they did, but just a general feeling, maybe it is the writing. I don't mind mysterious characters, but with these characters I feel like the writers themselves don't know who they are and where they come from.

Unpopular opinion, I like Laurel. she is a quiet, but sharp and twisted mind and has demonstrated that she could get inside a killer's head (the St vincent case) and be cold-blooded as well. Too bad she's paired with a character as uninteresting as Franck, and that their pairing (or at least her decision to sleep with him) seemed to come out of nowhere.

I neither like or dislike Annalise, but Viola Davis manages to make her shine through the screen each scene she's in, and she definitely makes the character more than what it would be on paper.

On the Keating 5, Asher is the one that grew on me the most. He and Connor share some good one-liners, and their respective actors deliveries of them are spot on.