Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search
Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

All Episodes Talk: S03 War Of The Damned

Meushell

By Meushell
in Spartacus [V]

Recommended Posts

green

green

(edited)

Cathy7304, I hear you and historically it seems a little up in the air but I found this online for you.  (Like how you used "apologies" here like in the TV series, heh).

---------------------------------------

"A nineteen year old Caesar was arrested. But it appears that Sulla chose to spare him, as he did some others. Influential friends managed to have him released, but it was obvious that Caesar would have to leave Rome for a while, in order to let things cool down.

 

Caesar goes into Exile

 

And so Caesar left Rome to join the army. Naturally, as a member of a patrician family, he didn't enter the forces as a common soldier. His first posting was as a military assistant to a provincial governor.

 

Thereafter he was posted to Cilicia, where he proved himself a capable and courageous soldier, winning praise for having saved the life of a comrade.

 

It's believed that his next assignment was in one of the armies which crushed Spartacus' slave rebellion.

 

After this Caesar left the army, yet it was still considered unwise for him to return to Rome.  Instead he spent some time in the south of Italy improving his education, in particular rhetoric. Caesar later proved an incredibly talented, if not genial, public speaker and much of this will undoubtedly have come from his training in rhetoric.  'Do you know any man who, even if he has concentrated on the art of oratory to the exclusion of all else, can speak better than Caesar ?' (quote by Cicero).

 

Caesar decided to spend the winter on the island of Rhodes, but the ship taking him there was captured by pirates, who held him hostage for about forty days, until a large ransom bought his freedom."

------------------------------------------------------

 

So it appears the Spartacus revolt occurred before Caesar was held hostage by the pirates.  And it seems he may have taken part in crushing the revolt.  But yeah this show pumps up Caesar's role in the revolt.  Since Crassus and Caesar (and Pompey) will eventually form the First Triumvirate and since he is certainly a big name in history and more familiar to most viewers than Crassus or even Pompey, I think it was a pretty clever call by the writers.

 

Caesar (played by John Gavin) also appears in the 1960 file Spartacus as well though more in the politics of Rome scenes where he ends up choosing Crassus' faction over Gracchus' faction which he originally had supported.  Just mentioning that in the sense that the TV series wasn't the first Spartacus project to throw Caesar into the camera frame.  Of course the real Gracchus brothers existed some 30 years earlier.  But historical fiction does contain the word fiction.  And needs to given the demands of the dramatic format.  Balancing the two is always the tricky part.

Edited by green
  • Love 3
Link to comment
green

green

(edited)

Yeah the trade of 500 to 1 would be tricky but that is what writers and editors are for, hah.  But the way they showed it the 500 Spartacus got back would be more of a burden than a help since most of them seemed wounded or may have even been pulled down from crosses half-dead like Agron was.  Crassus knows this helps him tactically to saddle Spartacus with so many wounded so he would be fine with the trade going through. 

 

And Spartacus gets his people back while Tiberius still dies because Kore turns out to be just as much a prize for Crassus.  And frankly Kore has too much baggage with Crassus to leave and live in freedom.  One of the slaves that never could truly adapt to the concept of freedom I think.

 

History factoid time again.  They got the gladiatorial games right though the real games Spartacus held to honor Crixus were way larger and he forced the Romans to fight each other.

 

"Spartacus, upon hearing of the defeat of Crixus and his forces, held mock gladiatorial games, in which he forced captured Roman soldiers to fight to the death. Three hundred Romans were sacrificed in Crixus' honor."

 

But it was more fun in this version to see the delight in Gannicus' face to return as "a god of the arena" again.  And more satisfying to see Naevia have her way with little twit Tiberius.  Also Spartacus giving her the final say about the deal with the 500 vs killing Tiberius' there and then was cool and Naevia showed great discipline and seeing the bigger picture in the middle of her vengeful adrenaline rush to stop on a dime for the sake of the 500 rebels.

 

And yeah Crixus' head had a great send off complete with the touching, lump in the throat moment of:

Naevia - "For Crixus!"

Spartacus - "And Sura, Varro and Mira!"

Gannicus - "Oenameus!"

Agron - "Duro!"

Etc, etc.  I think I even heard someone shout out Barca's name.  Great moment.

 

Loved Caesar trying to hide his smirk several times when he realizes he has got his revenge over Tiberius.

 

Now all we have to do is await the grand finale next Sunday night.

Edited by green
  • Love 2
Link to comment
ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

(edited)

Good episode.  Nobody I liked died, two people I liked turned out not to be dead, and Tiberius was killed.  

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  I think CAR is great as Naevia.  She is so expressive without saying a word.  She broke my heart at least three times in this ep. 

 

The scene after she first arrived and was talking to Spartacus was golden.  I loved Gannicus for asking her whether Crixus died victorious in battle the way he wanted.  It helped comfort Naevia, as much as anything could have at that moment, to frame it that way.  

 

And then poor Nasir, worrying that Agron was also dead, and Naevia couldn't say anything that would comfort him, because she didn't really know.  The scene when he finally does see that Agron's alive was sweet.

 

And Agron.  I was so glad to see he was still alive.  One of my favorite moments in the episode was when Crassus and Caesar first approached him where he was bound.

Crassus (to Caesar, about Agron):  Yes, I've heard about this one. Has he said anything yet?

Caesar:  Only a couple of rude words.

Agron:  I can say a few more of them.

Never change, Agron.

 

Another moment I loved was Caesar talking to Crassus after they learned about Tiberius' capture:

Crassus:  The gods hate us.  The rebels took my son.

Caesar:  Yes, but isn't it lucky they didn't take you instead?

Not that Crassus is anyone's choice for Father of the Year, but I don't think he quite agreed with Caesar there.

 

 

And yeah Crixus' head had a great send off complete with the touching, lump in the throat moment of:
Naevia - "For Crixus!"
Spartacus - "And Sura, Varro and Mira!"
Gannicus - "Oenameus!"
Agron - "Duro!"
Etc, etc.  I think I even heard someone shout out Barca's name.  Great moment.

 

 

It really was.  When they first showed the funeral pyre and the wrapped head on it, I thought it looked weird - probably because there was a wrapped head on it.  But when everyone started calling out the names of the fallen, I got teary-eyed.  Awesome moment, made more so when they all began chanting Crixus' name.

 

 

Hasta la vista, Tiberius! I would have liked to see him suffer more, but to literally have a woman beat him, and one of his rape victims set him up for this humiliation and the other to actually kill him is just going to have to do.

 

 

I think that worked out pretty well.  Caesar, Naevia and Kore all had major reasons to want Tiberius dead, and they all got to play a part in either his death or his defeat and humiliation.  And I don't generally root for anyone to be humiliated, but in Tiberius' case I'll make an exception.

 

 

"Spartacus, upon hearing of the defeat of Crixus and his forces, held mock gladiatorial games, in which he forced captured Roman soldiers to fight to the death. Three hundred Romans were sacrificed in Crixus' honor."

 

 

Interesting factoid.  I'd wondered why Spartacus would risk his people when it would have made more sense to have the Romans fight each other, since I would have thought his people were probably battle-weary by then.  But I do prefer that the show gave us a set-up that allowed the gladiators - and Nasir and Naevia - to have their moments.  It looked like Saxa had a turn as gladiator, too, but they didn't show much.  And you know she would've meant business in that arena.

 

I loved Spartacus allowing Naevia to have the real say-so in Tiberius' fate.  I also loved that when he referred to Crixus, Spartacus still called him, "The Undefeated Gaul."

 

Tiberius continued to be a horrible creature in new ways, right up to the end.  Running like a coward when he saw Spartacus, expecting that Kore might help him escape, etc.  Oh, and telling his soldiers not to fight in the arena so they wouldn't provide entertainment for the Romans.  Given that their other option was to stand there and be killed anyway, that one seemed more spiteful than honorable.

 

 

Loved Caesar trying to hide his smirk several times when he realizes he has got his revenge over Tiberius.

 

 

Yeah, I haven't been a fan of Caesar, but his barely-disguised glee at Tiberius' misfortune was hilarious. 

 

 

Now all we have to do is await the grand finale next Sunday night.

 

 

I think that's going to be a tough one to watch.

Edited by ElleryAnne
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Ohwell

Ohwell

(edited)

I was happy for Nasir that Agron was alive, but I was kind of sad for the African ex-slave who seemed to have a thing for Nasir.

 

I'm not sure I will be able to watch all of the grand finale.  However, I hope and expect that everyone will go down swinging and take a gazillion Romans with them.

Edited by Ohwell
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

 

I'm not sure I will be able to watch all of the grand finale.  However, I hope and expect that everyone will go down swinging and take a gazillion Romans with them.

 

I would advise you to have a plentiful supply of tissues at the ready (speaking from experience)

  • Love 2
Link to comment
green

green

I think the finale contains more inspiration then you might think making the tough to watch part easier then you may imagine now.  Also look at it this way.  Caesar, Crassus and Spartacus all died over 2000 years ago.  But who of them lives on the most in respect and admiration among modern day people?

  • Love 5
Link to comment
ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

(edited)

Okay, let's do this.

 

I was less heartbroken overall than I anticipated (possibly because I anticipated becoming a puddle of goo).  I did get teary-eyed a couple of times, though.

 

I think the single most upsetting thing to me was Naevia's death.  I hate - HATE - that the last words she heard were Caesar's, telling her that she shouldn't have that blade because she was a slave.  She died free, just like Spartacus did.  If she was too badly injured to say the words herself, then I wish Gannicus or someone else around her had said it for her.  

 

Caesar's grin during that scene was disturbingly happy.  It wasn't even a smirk.  It was gleeful and effortless and didn't belong on a battlefield unless it was meant to paint him as a total sociopath.

 

On the other hand, Caesar speaking up on behalf of Kore was interesting.  Not a lot of the Romans have shown either understanding or concern at the fact that slaves could be raped, since the Romans as a whole didn't seem to recognize that the slaves had any right to personal bodily agency.  For a few seconds, I actually liked Caesar when he acknowledged that Kore was a victim.  

 

And then he went and blabbered on about Naevia being a slave and I hated him again.

 

Did Crassus have Kore put on a cross at the end?  So not really forgiving her, then.  I'm glad he found out what kind of vile little weasel his son was, though.  I'm also glad he was told that his own choice to force decimation on his soldiers is what led to that whole chain of events, because while it doesn't excuse Tiberius raping Kore, it does highlight the idea that choices have consequences beyond the immediate.

 

The hidden trench that the soldiers ran forward and fell into was very clever.  

 

Spartacus' inspirational speech about freedom was great.  Crassus' about defending Rome, not so much.

 

I haven't been fond of the Gannicus-Saxa-Sibyl triangle because honestly, I don't know what he sees in Sibyl.  She's like the slave version of Seppia, who I never liked (and probably for the same reason - that whiny, hanger-on, teenager with her first boyfriend vibe).  Saxa, OTOH, was a cool chick. 

 

Gannicus' death - and the long line of the others on crosses - was chilling.  Not so much his dying hallucination (though it was nice to see Oenomaus there), but just the fact that so many of the fallen rebels were put on crosses and not even afforded the more merciful, quick death on the battlefield.  I mean, Caesar intentionally stopped the other soldier from killing Gannicus just so they could put him through a more painful, drawn-out death.  That was vicious.  The two lines of crosses looked like a message being sent to any other slave/rebels not to cross the Romans.  

 

Castus' death was sad.  I couldn't tell whether his last words were directed at Nasir or Agron - I'm guessing Agron, since Castus would've wanted Nasir's love, even for a day.  

 

I was glad Agron and Nasir survived.  Surprised, since Agron was the one who was still suffering from his earlier cross-related injuries and shouldn't have been on the battlefield to begin with.  But I would have been shocked if he hadn't insisted on fighting.  In the past, when he's been the one Spartacus told to stay behind, he's never liked it.  He wasn't going to miss the big fight.  And of course Nasir would support Agron, regardless of whether it meant traveling to safety or dying a warrior's death.  

 

Mainly, I'm glad that it wasn't an either/or, with one of them surviving and not the other, because after the heartbreak of Naevia losing Crixus I'm not sure I'd be able to watch a second round of it with my other favorite couple.

 

Agron's reaction to Spartacus' death got to me.  All of it, throughout that scene - the affection and sense of loss of a comrade in the kiss to the forehead, the pain and exhaustion in his face at the end of the fight, the way he looked back at the makeshift grave with his sword/shield on it as Nasir was trying to lead him forward...  Nice way to close out the show.

 

Spartacus' actual death didn't hit me as hard as I thought it would, probably because I was expecting it by then.  It bugged me that his actual death is caused by a couple of javelin spear things thrown from behind him, though.  That's like a coward shooting him in the back.  It didn't seem like a fitting death for him, even if they try to justify it as Roman soldiers protecting their leader.  I was kinda expecting that Crassus and Spartacus would have continued fighting, face to face,  and that Crassus would have delivered the killing blow himself.  (I wouldn't have wanted to Spartacus to die at all, of course, but since it was going to happen, I expected it to be a leader-to-leader confrontation.)

 

I could have sworn Spartacus reached down and pulled one of those spears out of his shin from the side, but that seemed too impossible even compared to the other impossible wounds we've seen in this show.

 

One of my favorite exchanges of the episode was between Spartacus and Crassus (paraphrased):

Crassus:  Too bad you weren't born a Roman.  I'd have been proud to have someone like you fighting at my side.

Spartacus:  I thank the gods that I wasn't.  It's better that I'm me and can lead the fight against warped values like yours.

Okay, he didn't say that last part, but you all know it was strongly implied.

 

I like that at the end, we see the mother and baby among the people headed for the mountains and freedom. Nice reinforcement of Spartacus' legacy to the generations after him.

 

And we never find out what Spartacus' name actually was.  Though it was an interesting touch that the battle was bookended with the various rebels using, "I am Spartacus!" as a unifying thing and Spartacus at the end reminding everyone that that wasn't his name.

 

I'm sorry the series is over.  It took a while to warm up to it, but I've really grown to love it.  (I need to re-watch the early episodes at some point and see if I feel differently about them now that I'm more familiar with the characters.)  Love this board, too, and you guys.

 

I could do without the scenes of people on fire, though.  

Edited by ElleryAnne
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Badger

Badger

I think Crassus did forgive Kore.  However, she had killed a Roman citizen and had to be punished for it.  It was the same when he put Tiberius up for decimation.  

 

I hope everyone watched to the end of the credits. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Ohwell

Ohwell

I hope everyone watched to the end of the credits.

I'll admit it, I was a sniveling wuss last night.  I stopped watching at the point where Gannicus was on his knees and I knew he was a goner, in front of Caesar.  I was already gutted that Castus and Naevia and Saxa were gone, so I just wimped out.  I knew Spartacus was going to die so I didn't need to see that either.  However, I'm surprised and delighted reading that Agron and my sweetie Nasir made it though. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Badger

Badger

Along with the credits, they had pictures of almost every character from the first season on.  Then at the end, they had the scene from Season 1, Episode 7 where Andy Whitfield yells "I AM SPARTACUS!!!"

 

They had the characters in different groupings so some got shown several times.  

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Ohwell

Ohwell

Well, I'm sorry I missed all the gang at the end in the credits, but I'm still glad I didn't witness Gannicus and Spartacus getting killed. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed this series and the discussions with all of you.  Special shoutouts to Green and ElleryAnne for the historical perspective, and to Meushell for posting the threads.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
green

green

Well, I'm sorry I missed all the gang at the end in the credits, but I'm still glad I didn't witness Gannicus and Spartacus getting killed. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed this series and the discussions with all of you.  Special shoutouts to Green and ElleryAnne for the historical perspective, and to Meushell for posting the threads.

 

Honestly I would still download that last episode and watch it.  Because their deaths were the inspiring ones.  It sounds like you switched it off at the very lowest point.  Bummer for you to exit at that point cause as weird as it sounds it kind of was all up after that to me.

 

The death of Gannicus was awesome.  Oenameus comes to the foot of the cross to take him across to the afterlife giving him one last vision of his former glory.  The joy in his face when he embraces it and claims his victory over death itself in his roar of triumph was one of the highlights of the entire series for me.

 

Spartacus, of course, gets a hero's death after first defeating Crassus in the final duel.  Crassus is saved by spear-throwing soldiers taking Spartacus down the only way a hero on TV is taken down.  By a cheap shot.  Then Agron and Nasir rescue him from dying on the spot and carry him off to a peaceful, still place where they, Laeta, Sybil and the nameless woman and her baby take their good-byes.  Spartacus, at peace with himself, gets to deliver the line that the greatest gift of liberty is to die a free man.  Awesome stuff.

 

He is buried in a shallow grave covered by stones and, as his wife Sura prophesied in Episode 1, under the two red serpents ... the ones on Agron's makeshift shield weapon as it turns out which is left behind as a grave marker.  The gray skies turn to lighter ones and rays of sun break through heralding the first glimmers of freedom coming to earth as it were as the remaining people he gave his life for start their way over the mountain passes to their new lives in freedom.  Can't have a much more positive or happier ending then that given the facts of history. 

 

So I find their two deaths totally inspirational and ones you want to stand up and cheer for.  Catch the episode again somehow if you can is my humble recommendation.  We all die in the end.  It is how we lived and what we stood for that is celebrated here.

  • Love 2
Link to comment
green

green

(edited)

Along with the credits, they had pictures of almost every character from the first season on.  Then at the end, they had the scene from Season 1, Episode 7 where Andy Whitfield yells "I AM SPARTACUS!!!"

 

They had the characters in different groupings so some got shown several times.  

 

Wanted to reply in separate postings to some of the above so as to kind of keep to separate themes and not to write-out one super long post that is hard to read I guess.  Yeah I saw that when I downloaded it this summer.  It was a nice way to exit the series.  But Sy-Fy reduced the credits to a postage stamp and went 90 miles and hour through them.  They did have "I am Spartacus!" at a normal speed but it was, again, at postage stamp size alas.

 

Might as well add some history factoids here in this post too.  I looked online and it says that Crassus crucified the 6000 survivors of the battle.  Didn't know the exact number until I googled it.  Knew the rest of the story though.  They were marched from that site to Capua, where it all began, and were crucified all along the famed Appian Way on both sides of the road from Capua all the way to the gates of Rome as a warning to all other slaves.  Crucifixion was always reserved as the punishment for sedition against the state which was viewed as the worst crime among the Romans.  It was used since it was about the worst death ever devised so was always used as a warning against sedition to all others and a deterrent to such ideas and actions.

 

Crassus, as shown, actually did allow Pompey to steal away his "victory triumph" (a very big deal for any Roman commander) from him though he did get recognition for winning that last battle in the form of secondary "victory laurels".  He did it to play a long game for greater power which helped win Pompey's loyalty in support for the First Triumvirate formed around himself, Pompey and Caesar. 

 

This effectively usurped all power to them from the now ineffectual and neutered Senate.  The Senate would always remained afterwards but was only window dressing from this time onward.  A rubber stamp.  So ironically the last vestiges of any Roman "freedom" (though really only for the upper and upper-middle classes) were is some ways destroyed with the defeat of the slave army seeking freedom and the seeds that it sowed.  Spartacus in this way did indeed help bring down the Republic.

 

Crassus himself faded away from prominence and became more the mere "banker" among the trio of defacto rulers and died without doing anything more to add to a Roman's version of glory.

 

Caesar went on to Roman-style glory conquering part of Gaul.  So along with Pompey, they became the two big conquering generals and thus the bigger movers and shakers.  And there cannot be two alpha males co-existing it always seems so it came about they parted ways and a bloody civil war took place with Caesar the winner in battle and Pompey fleeing to Egypt. 

 

In Egypt, Cleopatra's brother ruled  and saw a chance to get into the winner's good graces and had Pompey captured and executed.  But Caesar saw that as depriving him of the final glory and humiliating Rome by allowing a "great" general to be killed by a foreigner.  Cleopatra, estranged from her brother and wanting the throne herself, worked her magic and Caesar killed the last male pharaoh of Egypt and placed her on the throne and married her under Egyptian law causing great scandal back home which, with his open power grab, would eventually lead to his assassination.

 

So all three Romans involved with Spartacus in the end would also die.  Two in a violent manner and one fading into obscurity which was probably the worst of those deaths for a Roman in some ways.  And none of them ever respected like Spartacus is today in this modern world.

Edited by green
  • Love 1
Link to comment
green

green

(edited)

As always a long and interesting and excellent post from ElleryAnne.  I think the best way to reply to it is edit it to just the parts I'm replying too and I'll bold my answers within the quote below since there are a number of points I'd like to reply to.

 

I think the single most upsetting thing to me was Naevia's death.  I hate - HATE - that the last words she heard were Caesar's, telling her that she shouldn't have that blade because she was a slave.  She died free, just like Spartacus did.  If she was too badly injured to say the words herself, then I wish Gannicus or someone else around her had said it for her.  

 

Yeah I agree that was the lowest point of the episode.  No wonder Ohwell turned if off soon after.


On the other hand, Caesar speaking up on behalf of Kore was interesting.  Not a lot of the Romans have shown either understanding or concern at the fact that slaves could be raped, since the Romans as a whole didn't seem to recognize that the slaves had any right to personal bodily agency.  For a few seconds, I actually liked Caesar when he acknowledged that Kore was a victim.  

 

And then he went and blabbered on about Naevia being a slave and I hated him again.

 

Yeah the writers seemed to have used Caesar in this series as being relatively okay in comparison with Tiberius but alone, away from Tiberius and his actions, not so much.

 

Did Crassus have Kore put on a cross at the end?  So not really forgiving her, then. 

 

He did indeed forgive her for killing Tiberius.  But he gave orders that all people that were part of the rebels were to be put to death so he, by all the the concepts of Roman honor and integrity of his day, couldn't excuse one of them for personal reasons.  In the end he became a victim of the harsh requirements of Roman justice by losing the one person he truly did love ... as much as he could love.


I haven't been fond of the Gannicus-Saxa-Sibyl triangle because honestly, I don't know what he sees in Sibyl.  She's like the slave version of Seppia, who I never liked (and probably for the same reason - that whiny, hanger-on, teenager with her first boyfriend vibe).  Saxa, OTOH, was a cool chick. 

 

I think Saxa was also cool about Gannicus and Sybil.  She saw that Sybil was actually good for Gannicus I think.  And she was.  To me Sybil symbolized a more gentle and even spiritual type of person.  Both innocent and naive but having the outlook in her that would know how to use freedom to build a better, more compassionate society.  It almost had to be that she survived to represent the future of mankind not to put too big a spin on things, hah.

 

Sybil always saw Gannicus the way she imagined him.  Noble and true.  Gannicus had trouble with that cause he saw his faults clearly.  But Sybil's "faith" helped change Gannicus more into that very man.  He even refused a last drink with Spartacus because he, of all people, was influenced by her enough to give up drink.  Wow.

 

And drink to him was a self-indulgent thing.  First as part of his party boy youth then almost as an escape from his past and what happened to Milleta.  Now he had faced things through Oenameus first giving him a new start but one he can't quite embrace.  Then Sybil with her idealistic vision gave him a chance to be the good man and hero he had within himself all along.  So though he at first declines the final command in the end he finally accepts it knowing he has become a new, more selfless man who can at least fight so that others can find a new life in freedom.

 

Yeah I guess I like Sybil a bit more than you did, heh.

 

The two lines of crosses looked like a message being sent to any other slave/rebels not to cross the Romans.  

 

Yeah you are so right.  It totally was like I mentioned in the post above.

 

I was glad Agron and Nasir survived.

 

I also especially liked that they had one lone survivor from House Batiatus in Agron to live and tell the whole tale from the very beginning.

 

... the makeshift grave with his sword/shield on it ...

 

Like I mentioned in my first post, that fulfilled Sura's prophesy in the very first episode.  You could see Spartacus knew for sure he was going to die that day when he first saw Agron's new shield with the two red serpents on it before the battle and even murmured aloud to himself the lines Sura has said about his life being full of "great and terrible things."  Wonderful way to take the series full circle.

 

I was kinda expecting that Crassus and Spartacus would have continued fighting, face to face,  and that Crassus would have delivered the killing blow himself.  (I wouldn't have wanted to Spartacus to die at all, of course, but since it was going to happen, I expected it to be a leader-to-leader confrontation.)

 

But maybe think about it this way.  He was taken down from behind so he never lost to Crassus and in fact had him defeated and on the ground unarmed which gives him his final victory.  Movies and TV never have the hero defeated by the main villain after all.  If they fall it is by "unfair" means after they proved they were the real winner.


I like that at the end, we see the mother and baby among the people headed for the mountains and freedom. Nice reinforcement of Spartacus' legacy to the generations after him.

 

It was indeed.  And there was a subtle subtext to that scene too.  I'm talking about how the mother and child are flanked by Laeta and Sybil.  Both these women were rather pointedly shown sleeping with Spartacus and Gannicus right near the end.  Why?  Seemed to me it gave the viewer the choice to think that just maybe one or the other or both will carry on the bloodlines of Gannicus and Spartacus in the form of a free-born child they may give birth too.  Otherwise why have both women survive from the writers' point of view.

 

And we never find out what Spartacus' name actually was.  Though it was an interesting touch that the battle was bookended with the various rebels using, "I am Spartacus!" as a unifying thing and Spartacus at the end reminding everyone that that wasn't his name.

 

I never got why it wasn't suppose to be his name (talking why the writers went with that fiction).  It never added to anything and Spartacus was a common name in Thrace since several Thracian "kings" had been named that thus it was popular to name your son that.

 

The "I am Spartacus" lines were a nice shout-out to the most famous scene from the 1960 Spartacus film though.  Different set-up of course but still a great shout-out to a great film in and of itself.

 

I'm sorry the series is over.  It took a while to warm up to it, but I've really grown to love it.  (I need to re-watch the early episodes at some point and see if I feel differently about them now that I'm more familiar with the characters.)  Love this board, too, and you guys.

 

Yeah I'll miss this part of the board too.  But the third season of Vikings starts in February so I have that to fall back on.  And that series features a for real and historically accurate female as one of the major leads.  One of the strongest warriors in Viking history actually.  So bring on Lagertha as well as Ragnar and crew.  I need them to pick me back up after the end of this series.

 

PS:  For the record Spartacus was indeed killed attacking Crassus.  He managed to kill two centurions near him before Romans troops rushed him en masse.  His body was never found after the battle though which allowed the writers of this series license enough to have his final breaths and burial away from the battlefield.  It was a good call on their part I think.

 

Enjoyed my time here and especially all of your posts.  And hope to see all of you who like good historical drama on the Vikings thread come February.

Edited by green
  • Love 3
Link to comment
ElleryAnne

ElleryAnne

Along with the credits, they had pictures of almost every character from the first season on.  Then at the end, they had the scene from Season 1, Episode 7 where Andy Whitfield yells "I AM SPARTACUS!!!"

They had the characters in different groupings so some got shown several times.

 

 

Ok, that sounded great so I checked on yt.  I found this one, but suspect it's not complete because it looks like it doesn't start until partway through the credits.  But I thought I'd link it here in case anyone unfamiliar with it wanted to see what it was like.  Also, that last part with the "I am Spartacus!" moment is more inspirational after having seen the entire series, so I enjoyed seeing it again.

 

 

 

Special shoutouts to Green and ElleryAnne for the historical perspective

 

 

:)  Green really gets the credit.  I only asked questions.  Green brought the answers.

 

 

I'm still glad I didn't witness Gannicus and Spartacus getting killed.

 

 

Yeah, I can definitely sympathize. I was actually nervous waiting to watch it because I didn't know if I'd get through it.  Now that I've seen the whole series it's easier for me to put their deaths in perspective, and I know I can go back and watch episodes where they're alive again.  When/if you feel up to watching it, it'll be worth it.

 

 

Crassus crucified the 6000 survivors of the battle.

 

 

I don't have words for that.  It's just.... really sad to think about.

 

 

You could see Spartacus knew for sure he was going to die that day when he first saw Agron's new shield with the two red serpents on it before the battle and even murmured aloud to himself the lines Sura has said about his life being full of "great and terrible things."  Wonderful way to take the series full circle.

 

 

D'oh! That was great!  Wish I'd noticed that one, because I usually love things like that. ;P

 

 

But maybe think about it this way.  He was taken down from behind so he never lost to Crassus and in fact had him defeated and on the ground unarmed which gives him his final victory.  Movies and TV never have the hero defeated by the main villain after all.  If they fall it is by "unfair" means after they proved they were the real winner.

 

 

True.  It'll help if I think about it that way instead of being annoyed that it was unfair.  (I seem to have become rather protective of Spartacus.)

 

I'll be joining all of you on the Vikings thread, too.  

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Badger

Badger

Yeah,  I found that one too, but you're right, it's not complete.  It's too bad Syfy raced through the final credits because if you saw them originally, they were really cool.  

 

Also, I think Sybil was kind of like Gannicus's Sura.  Spartacus made several mentions of how he used to gamble and be a bit of a rogue before he met Sura and that's the kind of influence Sybil had on Gannicus.

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Ceindreadh

Ceindreadh

I'll admit it, I was a sniveling wuss last night.  I stopped watching at the point where Gannicus was on his knees and I knew he was a goner, in front of Caesar.  I was already gutted that Castus and Naevia and Saxa were gone, so I just wimped out.  I knew Spartacus was going to die so I didn't need to see that either.  However, I'm surprised and delighted reading that Agron and my sweetie Nasir made it though. 

 

Oh I remember watching back when it aired originally and by the time Gannicus was captured I was sobbing pretty much non-stop until after the closing credits.

(didn't even recognize Pompey when he finally showed up, even though I'm a Joel Tobeck fan)

  • Love 2
Link to comment
ElizaD

ElizaD

A rewatch and I missed it. :(

 

A great finish to a series that started out like the worst kind of genre show and ended up among the best. Even the 300-style approach to combat ended up feeling appropriately mythic by the time the show got to bloody handshakes.

 

With the exception of Kore, Caesar was horribly gleeful about punishing and defeating slaves. I wish there had a flash forward to his ultimate fate.

 

Naevia's death was devastating, but those of Spartacus and Gannicus had a suitably uplifting tone of moral/emotional triumph. They could never again have the lives they truly wanted and their reward was reunion with their true loves, Spartacus with Sura and Gannicus with Oenomaus(/presumably Melitta)/the arena. I didn't get the feeling that Gannicus loved Sybil in a truly romantic sense, but she was a good woman like Melitta and he found peace and purpose in keeping this innocent safe.

  • Love 4
Link to comment
bychance

bychance

 

I think the single most upsetting thing to me was Naevia's death.  I hate - HATE - that the last words she heard were Caesar's, telling her that she shouldn't have that blade because she was a slave.  She died free, just like Spartacus did.  If she was too badly injured to say the words herself, then I wish Gannicus or someone else around her had said it for her.

 

Agreed. Not only that, it was far too anti climatic for such a big character (only character to appear in every season including the prequel besides Crixus). I did like that Gannicus did have a reaction.

 

Some people thought Naevia holding on to her stomach hinted that she was pregnant. However Steven DeKnight denied this was the case.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Cable Guy

Cable Guy

Wow, this ending really affected me.  For a few days I had this somber feeling I couldn't shake.  Not sure why since I more or less knew the outcome (kine of like Troy or Passion of the Christ, you pretty much know how it ends).

Link to comment
Ankai

Ankai

I pretty much said all of my feelings in the TWOP thread back when this first aired, so...yeah. And...now something else.

How many troops did  Crassus have on the show compared to the others? Yes, I could find the real-historical numbers, but that is not going to help here. In the initial pre-fight overhead shot, it looked like there were probably around 32000, or six legions. Of course, that was after Spartacus and  Crixus already hacked at his forces for however many months.

 

Now...contrast with Glaber, Seppius, and those two generals in the season three premiere. Seppius seemed to have only a few dozen men and Glaber did not have a lot until Varinius came along with about a thousand men. Then in the season three premiere, the two generals had...I don't know. I heard  the number 10,000 thrown out when Crassus was involved, but I don't know if that had any bearing on the actual numbers or how many of the men under him included the ones under the previous two leaders.

 

And, how many were under Spartacus at each time? It seemed like he had a few thousand at the premiere and a few thousand more during the time in the city, but then a whole bunch died up in the snow and then Crixus took a couple thousand with him on that journey to Rome...of which only five hundred survived. At the end battle, there seemed to be only a couple thousand. Not accurate to history, but that is neither here nor there at the moment.

Link to comment
Advance35

Advance35

I liked War of The Damned and I think one of my favorite threads throughout the saga was that of Laeta.   She started as a privledged pampered Roman and throughout the story (and at times by force) I felt she was truly a different person when it was all over.   Even at the height of her power she was never like Lucretia or Illithyia, I think she lacked both their cunning and their cut-throat survival instincts, so it was impressive to me, how she managed to survive with Crixus, Naevia, Crassus and Saxa all wanting to kill her at certain times.

 

She survived the seige and than when she's back with her people, because she's a woman who's effectively alone in the world, Crassus see's a chance to increase his holdings by just stampeding what's left of her life and selling her to a pirate as a sex slave.   I just liked that after all she had lost and all that happened, she ended up a better person.   At Crixus's memorial she told Spartacus she finally understood the importance of it all and I believed her.

 

It was also strange that although I don't think  Spartacus loved her, I think he grew to care about her more than Mira.   I found that interesting.

Link to comment
Fallacy

Fallacy

I just finished binge watching the entire series on Netflix for the first time. What a brilliant show, made all the more poignant by Andy Whitfield's death. And yes, the final episode was devasting to watch so thank you for the posts about the real history. I was wondering if someone here could recommend a good source for more history on Spartacus.

Link to comment
green

green

I just finished binge watching the entire series on Netflix for the first time. What a brilliant show, made all the more poignant by Andy Whitfield's death. And yes, the final episode was devasting to watch so thank you for the posts about the real history. I was wondering if someone here could recommend a good source for more history on Spartacus.

 

Straight history you can google the original sources online since they aren't copyrighted.  Very little is written though.  Roman writers writing about Crassus mainly.  It makes for dry reading unless you are a hardcore history buff.

 

For historical fiction like this the best is the Howard Fast novel called "Spartacus" which the original Kirk Douglas movie is based on. 

 

And the 1960 film itself is a most see.  No computer graphics extras.  That last battle scene featured a cast of thousands.  Excellent cinematography and score.  Great cast too with Laurence Olivier as Crassus and Peter Ustinov as Batianus especially.  The break-out scene from the ludus is more accurate in the film while the TV series had other things more accurate like the fact Sparatcus had a wife at one time.  Different mediums and eras, both great in their own way.  Enjoy both the film and the TV series for what they offer I say.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...