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44 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

Jack WAS Gwen though. He did terrible awful things to Steve much like Gwen did to Abby, and Jo still believed in him and that he would one day be part of the family, and it happened, so I can totally believe Jack believing that Gwen can do the same.

Not quite the same. One MAJOR and crucial difference is that Jack didn’t do all what he did to Steve and Kayla KNOWING Steve was his brother did he?

Jack didn’t research Jo and Jo’s other kids and family and deliberately set out to kill them and ruin their lives did he?  

Jack and Steve had a mutual hate of each other where both had their reasons for not liking the other that had nothing to do with them being related. Them being brothers was a good soapy twist that started Jack on his looong road to redemption. 
 

Steve backed off on his hate when he found Jack was Billy, the brother he ALREADY had a bond with and loved dearly. Steve likely would have NEVER have forgiven Jack if that bond wasn’t already there.  No such bond exists in this current situation. Abigail and the rest of Gwen’s victims have no similar reason to deal with her. 

So, no. Jack at his worst was NEVER Gwen. And his family situation doesn’t have the established bonds that were there with Jo/Steve/Adrienne. She will never be a part of that family. She doesn’t want to put in the work. Jack did. It wasn’t just handed to him like Gwen thinks she’s entitled to. 
 

Jack actually WAS contrite and did his best to change his behaviors , apologize, and do better. He didn’t expect anything from anyone and accepted that he might ALWAYS be seen as that person he was.   Not one glimpse of any of that from Gwen. She just expects people to deal with her because reasons . . . Jo believed in Jack sure, but she wasn’t Jack’s fool like Gwen has made Jack.  Jack’s telling everyone who’ll listen how she deserves a second chance because she had a rough childhood and what is Gwen doing? Acting like the same lying, heartless, sociopath she’s always been.  
 

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49 minutes ago, brisbydog said:

Jack WAS Gwen though. He did terrible awful things to Steve much like Gwen did to Abby, and Jo still believed in him and that he would one day be part of the family, and it happened, so I can totally believe Jack believing that Gwen can do the same.

While this is a valid point the problem here is Jack seemed remorseful and the people who were angry with him weren't told to get over it either.

 

Total opposite of this.

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1 hour ago, KBrownie said:

Not quite the same. One MAJOR and crucial difference is that Jack didn’t do all what he did to Steve and Kayla KNOWING Steve was his brother did he?

Jack didn’t research Jo and Jo’s other kids and family and deliberately set out to kill them and ruin their lives did he?  

Jack and Steve had a mutual hate of each other where both had their reasons for not liking the other that had nothing to do with them being related. Them being brothers was a good soapy twist that started Jack on his looong road to redemption. 
 

Steve backed off on his hate when he found Jack was Billy, the brother he ALREADY had a bond with and loved dearly. Steve likely would have NEVER have forgiven Jack if that bond wasn’t already there.  No such bond exists in this current situation. Abigail and the rest of Gwen’s victims have no similar reason to deal with her. 

So, no. Jack at his worst was NEVER Gwen. And his family situation doesn’t have the established bonds that were there with Jo/Steve/Adrienne. She will never be a part of that family. She doesn’t want to put in the work. Jack did. It wasn’t just handed to him like Gwen thinks she’s entitled to. 
 

Jack actually WAS contrite and did his best to change his behaviors , apologize, and do better. He didn’t expect anything from anyone and accepted that he might ALWAYS be seen as that person he was.   Not one glimpse of any of that from Gwen. She just expects people to deal with her because reasons . . . Jo believed in Jack sure, but she wasn’t Jack’s fool like Gwen has made Jack.  Jack’s telling everyone who’ll listen how she deserves a second chance because she had a rough childhood and what is Gwen doing? Acting like the same lying, heartless, sociopath she’s always been.  
 

I love your post but to be fair Jo was very blase about Jack raping Kayla though, I am not saying that she did not care but her reaction was very interesting. I always wondered if she had been raped herself by her husband Duke, not to mention it was legal for a man to rape his wife.  This is a woman who was being brutalized by her husband and by life who found solace in alcohol.  

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On 3/4/2021 at 6:50 PM, kitmerlot1213 said:

Oh yes, Clyde's going to be the big hero who reunites Ciara and Ben.

This is unfair -- even I have only so much "Ew" in me, show!

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2 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Jack WAS Gwen though. He did terrible awful things to Steve much like Gwen did to Abby, and Jo still believed in him and that he would one day be part of the family, and it happened, so I can totally believe Jack believing that Gwen can do the same.

Oh I know, Jo used to annoy me sooo bad with her "baby Billy" bit. 

1 hour ago, KBrownie said:

Jack and Steve had a mutual hate of each other where both had their reasons for not liking the other that had nothing to do with them being related. Them being brothers was a good soapy twist that started Jack on his looong road to redemption. 

Steve backed off on his hate when he found Jack was Billy, the brother he ALREADY had a bond with and loved dearly. Steve likely would have NEVER have forgiven Jack if that bond wasn’t already there.  No such bond exists in this current situation. Abigail and the rest of Gwen’s victims have no similar reason to deal with her. 
So, no. Jack at his worst was NEVER Gwen. And his family situation doesn’t have the established bonds that were there with Jo/Steve/Adrienne. She will never be a part of that family. She doesn’t want to put in the work. Jack did. It wasn’t just handed to him like Gwen thinks she’s entitled to. 

Jack actually WAS contrite and did his best to change his behaviors , apologize, and do better. He didn’t expect anything from anyone and accepted that he might ALWAYS be seen as that person he was.   Not one glimpse of any of that from Gwen. She just expects people to deal with her because reasons . . . Jo believed in Jack sure, but she wasn’t Jack’s fool like Gwen has made Jack.  Jack’s telling everyone who’ll listen how she deserves a second chance because she had a rough childhood and what is Gwen doing? Acting like the same lying, heartless, sociopath she’s always been.  
 

To clarify some of the history, Jack stuck his nose up at Steve initially because he was an entitled rich boy, and Steve turned Kayla's head more than he did. Steve didn't hate Jack at that point, he just sorta thought Jack was a rich twerp.  The brotherhood "twist" was gradual.  Steve (and the audience) knew Jack was his brother about a year before Jack did. Steve was well aware that Jack was his brother when he threw him off the roof for raping Kayla, a violent brutal rape of a women who did not want him as opposed to Gwen's NYE romp with an inebriated and easily led Chad. After that, there were many times where Steve recognized that Jack was not the baby Billy that he loved and adored, but a corrupt and violent man he didn't know.  Those family "bonds" were quite tenuous.  Even Adrienne's bond to both Steve and Jack was more in her head initially since she was born after they were given up. She spent a good bit of time chasing a fantasy of family rather than the hand she was actually dealt.  Jack took a long time till he started being civil to Steve and Kayla after finding out he was Billy, and some of that came about after he got knocked down a peg by the reveal of his respected (adoptive) father being exposed as a misogynist serial killer and his 'world' started to fall apart.  It's likely Jack would never have warmed to the Johnson's if Harper hadn't been the Riverfront Knifer and the Deveraux family hadn't gone up in scandal and basically became nonexistent. 

The situations do have some similarities and differences, but only rose colored glasses make Jack a saint while Gwen an irredeemable sinner-- I don't think the stories are going to play out that black and white. However, I do think Jack's past can/does lend him to giving Gwen a chance (in addition to the fact that she is the daughter he never had a chance with before.)  Having made a relationship with Steve over the years, he came to see how their different upbringings affected them. From a social class perspective, Jack recognizes that Abigail was like him growing up, in a position of wealth and opportunity whereas Gwen was like Steve, orphaned and struggling alone in poverty while at the same time seeing Gwen as himself, a person who went down a dark path and made unforgivable mistakes that were in the end forgiven. Jack's past does seem to allow him to view and relate to both perspectives. 

Whenever the show picks back up with Jack's arrival at the pub with Steve scene where they last left off, we should get more insight.  I'd like to see how that plays out next week. 

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6 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

Whenever the show picks back up with Jack's arrival at the pub with Steve scene where they last left off, we should get more insight.  I'd like to see how that plays out next week. 

Ha.  If only....  But I think that's a pretty good summation of the complicated situation of the past.  I don't think it needs to be a direct parallel for Jack to empathize with Gwen.

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1 minute ago, Irlandesa said:

Ha.  If only....  But I think that's a pretty good summation of the complicated situation of the past.  I don't think it needs to be a direct parallel for Jack to empathize with Gwen.

Thanks!  Here's hoping the pub scene comes Monday, not next Thursday or a week from Friday, and we get some worthwhile (and overdue) conversation between Steve and Jack. But I also won't be surprised if "Susan" interrupts the diners by ranting about Chloe or Ben races in looking for a cop to finally trace those phone numbers. 😆

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Jack sees Gwen as his past self though,  doesn't mean circumstances are identical 

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1 hour ago, Peanut6711 said:

The situations do have some similarities and differences, but only rose colored glasses make Jack a saint while Gwen an irredeemable sinner-- I don't think the stories are going to play out that black and white. However, I do think Jack's past can/does lend him to giving Gwen a chance (in addition to the fact that she is the daughter he never had a chance with before.)  Having made a relationship with Steve over the years, he came to see how their different upbringings affected them. From a social class perspective, Jack recognizes that Abigail was like him growing up, in a position of wealth and opportunity whereas Gwen was like Steve, orphaned and struggling alone in poverty while at the same time seeing Gwen as himself, a person who went down a dark path and made unforgivable mistakes that were in the end forgiven. Jack's past does seem to allow him to view and relate to both perspectives. 

 

None of this has played out on screen though. He isn’t saying any of this to Abigail though is he? He’s just telling her she has to get over it b/c Gwen had it rough. This isn’t Jack’s story, it’s Gwen’s.  That’s why you won’t get any mention of Jo, or Steve, or any of that history.  If it was about Jack, it would have come up already. How much time has been spent on Gwen and how she feels and how she’s been wronged?  Yet, the audience is left to speculation about Jack’s motivations. What about those who don’t know Jack’s history? Jack only exists in this story to service Gwen. Show doesn’t care to make any connections about Jack. 

No one said Jack was a saint or that the parallels will work out exactly the same. I wasn’t arguing that there even ARE any parallels because I don’t see any comparison between Jack’s origin story and Gwen. Jack and Gwen are just like so many other people who had less than ideal upbringings. Jack was held accountable for the wrong way he chose to deal with his situation. Gwen needs to be held accountable as well.  

I have no problem with him trying to empathize with Gwen. That was a given considering the circumstances. My issue is he isn’t showing that same empathy to Abigail. He’s a completely different person from last summer when Abigail first started suffering from Gwen’s drugging. He was ready to kill whoever hurt his child then, storming into the police station demanding justice, but just b/c it’s Gwen, he’s over it. He can’t even be angry anymore about anything because poor, poor Gwen. He gave Abigail hell for how Jennifer found about him and Kate at the anniversary party, but knowing now that Gwen set the whole thing up? Nothing. Why have to sit through all of that if there’s no payoff. Gwen repeatedly says she doesn’t regret anything she did, so what’s the point? He’s telling Abigail to deal with it and get over all the terrible things Gwen did, but not saying boo to Gwen about all the hurt she caused. He’s putting all the burden on Abigail and letting Gwen walk around continuing to be the unapologetic bitch she’s always been.  My problem is that despite having had plenty of time, Gwen hasn’t shown herself to be worth it.  

Gwen will continue to just flit around making demands and whining how everyone is being unfair to her.

She doesn’t even care about Jack. She doesn’t care how her trying to kill and continuing to attack Abigail might hurt Jack.  Or how all the other stuff she did to destroy his family might have affected him. Nope. All. About. Her.  
 

And no matter what Jack or Gwen feels or doesn’t feel, that does NOT make any of what Gwen has done okay. I’ll continue to think her irredeemable until she does or shows anything about herself that’s redeemable. It’s been plenty of time for her to show SOMETHING, but she’s still attacking Abby for merely existing and now using innocent children to do her dirty work.

Cry me a river indeed. 

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14 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

None of this has played out on screen though. He isn’t saying any of this to Abigail though is he? He’s just telling her she has to get over it b/c Gwen had it rough. This isn’t Jack’s story, it’s Gwen’s.  That’s why you won’t get any mention of Jo, or Steve, or any of that history.  If it was about Jack, it would have come up already. How much time has been spent on Gwen and how she feels and how she’s been wronged?  Yet, the audience is left to speculation about Jack’s motivations. What about those who don’t know Jack’s history? Jack only exists in this story to service Gwen. Show doesn’t care to make any connections about Jack. 

No one said Jack was a saint or that the parallels will work out exactly the same. I wasn’t arguing that there even ARE any parallels because I don’t see any comparison between Jack’s origin story and Gwen. Jack and Gwen are just like so many other people who had less than ideal upbringings. Jack was held accountable for the wrong way he chose to deal with his situation. Gwen needs to be held accountable as well.  

I have no problem with him trying to empathize with Gwen. That was a given considering the circumstances. My issue is he isn’t showing that same empathy to Abigail. He’s a completely different person from last summer when Abigail first started suffering from Gwen’s drugging. He was ready to kill whoever hurt his child then, storming into the police station demanding justice, but just b/c it’s Gwen, he’s over it. He can’t even be angry anymore about anything because poor, poor Gwen. He gave Abigail hell for how Jennifer found about him and Kate at the anniversary party, but knowing now that Gwen set the whole thing up? Nothing. Why have to sit through all of that if there’s no payoff. Gwen repeatedly says she doesn’t regret anything she did, so what’s the point? He’s telling Abigail to deal with it and get over all the terrible things Gwen did, but not saying boo to Gwen about all the hurt she caused. He’s putting all the burden on Abigail and letting Gwen walk around continuing to be the unapologetic bitch she’s always been.  My problem is that despite having had plenty of time, Gwen hasn’t shown herself to be worth it.  

Gwen will continue to just flit around making demands and whining how everyone is being unfair to her.

She doesn’t even care about Jack. She doesn’t care how her trying to kill and continuing to attack Abigail might hurt Jack.  Or how all the other stuff she did to destroy his family might have affected him. Nope. All. About. Her.  
 

And no matter what Jack or Gwen feels or doesn’t feel, that does NOT make any of what Gwen has done okay. I’ll continue to think her irredeemable until she does or shows anything about herself that’s redeemable. It’s been plenty of time for her to show SOMETHING, but she’s still attacking Abby for merely existing and now using innocent children to do her dirty work.

Cry me a river indeed. 

Maybe Jack figures if she can deal with Ben, her ex who tied her pregnant ass to a bed and set the place on fire, getting an ornament on the Horton tree and an invite to Christmas, then she'll get over Gwen too.  In Salem, yesterday's serial killer is your cousin's husband today. Who knows what your vengeful sister will be tomorrow.   

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The whole Gabichic lease stuff was petty nonsense by Kate and Jake. They're going to put in a Basic Black store instead? What has BB done lately? Just a way to stick it to Gabi. Not professional.

Clyde was smart to give Ollie the cellphone and ask him to take it to the cops to get any cellphone tower pings to give an area where Ciara may be. And to tell him that she is alive! Alive!

Evan, your plan really isn't well thought-out. I did like him closing the curtain on Ciara.

Yeah, Chad, tell your wife you have a counselling appointment in an hour? Wow. How thoughtful of you. She had every right to tell you that she was busy and that you should have checked with her in advance.

I did like Abs' attempt to grill Gwen. Gwen did look pretty good considering she was in a laundry cart. Guess she will now also plot her own revenge against Gabi.

How convenient that Anna showed up at the wine cellar room.

 

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42 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

The whole Gabichic lease stuff was petty nonsense by Kate and Jake. They're going to put in a Basic Black store instead? What has BB done lately? Just a way to stick it to Gabi. Not professional.

Clyde was smart to give Ollie the cellphone and ask him to take it to the cops to get any cellphone tower pings to give an area where Ciara may be. And to tell him that she is alive! Alive!

Evan, your plan really isn't well thought-out. I did like him closing the curtain on Ciara.

Yeah, Chad, tell your wife you have a counselling appointment in an hour? Wow. How thoughtful of you. She had every right to tell you that she was busy and that you should have checked with her in advance.

I did like Abs' attempt to grill Gwen. Gwen did look pretty good considering she was in a laundry cart. Guess she will now also plot her own revenge against Gabi.

How convenient that Anna showed up at the wine cellar room.

 

Yes, why did Jake even give Gabi her company back if he was then going to turn around and sabotage her?  It makes him look petty and it also shows that he's still really invested in Gabi.  If he didn't care about her, he wouldn't care that she was getting on with her life.  To quote Dr. Phil "The opposite of love isn't hate.  It's indifference."

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Admittedly, I only sort of pay attention to the whole Gabi/DiMera Enterprises/Titan storyline, but if Gabi Chic is so profitable why was Gabi desperate to attach it to DE or Titan? And if it is so profitable, why is the store closed? I assume there's an online presence that's turning a profit?

Abby really is losing it. Gabi was right; just put Gwen in an adult diaper and don't feed her for 24 hours to get her to talk. But Abby went from 0 to 60 (let's drug her!) pretty fast. 

If only we could all shut the curtain on smug-wannabe-badass Ciara. I'm definitely rooting for Evan in this whole crapfest.

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10 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

“Are you kidding me? You can do that? You mean I could have tracked the number that called me over a week ago and instead I’ve been pestering a psychic and getting hypnotized to remember my dreams?”

I totally thought of you when Clyde told Ben to take the phone the phone to the police.  Made me chuckle.  

 

7 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

So Jake's a racist now. "Chica".

Why do they need to include those types of comments in the dialogue?  It's so unnecessary.  

 

Gabi and Abigail snarking at each other is good for a laugh.  And, I loved Abigail thinking she was going to get the truth out of Gwen, someone who has toyed with her and lied to her for months.  It's funny how certain emotional states can relegate rational thought to the back burner.  If Gwen ever starts telling the "truth", I'm going to be disappointed.  

The best thing about the Gabi-Chic-Lease-Nonsense was Kate giving Jake and Gabi a reason to be in each other's orbit, again, and Philip being the one to point that out to her.  I enjoyed Philip telling his own mother what a stupid move she made.  

At least they gave Evan one tiny moment of inner conflict when Ciara tried to tempt him with the idea of letting her escape and possibly making a decent life for himself.  Otherwise, this story is moving Full Steam Ahead at being one-dimensional drivel.  

I don't know why but I feel like they've painted Anna morally ambiguous enough to wonder if she'll just leave Gwen there, so they kinda-sorta succeeded at a Friday Cliffhanger.  

 

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1 hour ago, bunnyblue said:

Admittedly, I only sort of pay attention to the whole Gabi/DiMera Enterprises/Titan storyline, but if Gabi Chic is so profitable why was Gabi desperate to attach it to DE or Titan? And if it is so profitable, why is the store closed? I assume there's an online presence that's turning a profit?

Abby really is losing it. Gabi was right; just put Gwen in an adult diaper and don't feed her for 24 hours to get her to talk. But Abby went from 0 to 60 (let's drug her!) pretty fast. 

If only we could all shut the curtain on smug-wannabe-badass Ciara. I'm definitely rooting for Evan in this whole crapfest.

DE used to own Gabi Chic and Chad got control and shut it down to punish Gabi - That's why it's been closedf.  Presumably, Gabi realized she needed backing to get it back up and running after it languishing for so long.  

I didn't get Abby trying to tell Gabi that her motive should be that everyone would know that she wasn't the one who drugged Abby.  Everyone already knows that.

Ciara went from smug "I'm going to be saved, so there" to begging pretty quickly didn't she?  She really should learn to keep her mouth shut.  I absolutely LOVED Evan's sneering description of their "pure love."

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1 hour ago, enchantingmonkey said:
9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

So Jake's a racist now. "Chica".

Why do they need to include those types of comments in the dialogue?  It's so unnecessary.  

Old news. He's called her that before, and this forum has discussed it to death.

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What did I learn today?  Liking Gabi and Abigail working together.

I liked the purple on Kate.

And as smug as Ciara is, VK continues to have really good hair and really good chemistry with her male screen partners. 

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17 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

So Jake's a racist now. "Chica".

That was so stupid. Jake is a complete lost cause imo. I wish they'd get rid of him.

Quote

Gwen spitting truths to Abigail about her mothering skills.

I was laughing so much at that. It was obviously a lie and of course we were supposed to think Gwen was a big ol' meanie for it, but I loved it.

17 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Jack WAS Gwen though. He did terrible awful things to Steve much like Gwen did to Abby, and Jo still believed in him and that he would one day be part of the family, and it happened, so I can totally believe Jack believing that Gwen can do the same.

Yep. I just don't see any problem with Jack wanting to forgive Gwen and have a relationship with her. It makes sense imo even without the parallels between them. But yea the parallels really drive it home.

16 hours ago, CanaryFan98 said:

While this is a valid point the problem here is Jack seemed remorseful and the people who were angry with him weren't told to get over it either.

Are people being told to get over their hate for Gwen? I don't see that at all. Jack kinda tried it but I think he'd be fine with Abigail never forgiving Gwen as long as she doesn't try to tell him he can't. Like, she told him to choose between them

12 hours ago, Peanut6711 said:

Maybe Jack figures if she can deal with Ben, her ex who tied her pregnant ass to a bed and set the place on fire, getting an ornament on the Horton tree and an invite to Christmas, then she'll get over Gwen too.  In Salem, yesterday's serial killer is your cousin's husband today. Who knows what your vengeful sister will be tomorrow.   

Well yea, this. Ben ruined everything on so many levels lol.

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11 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

The whole Gabichic lease stuff was petty nonsense by Kate and Jake. They're going to put in a Basic Black store instead? What has BB done lately? Just a way to stick it to Gabi. Not professional.

I agree, it made Jake and Kate look immature, and they're both too old for that look. It also seems like Kate has been trying on desperate, as in desperate to make sure Jake doesn't stray. 

10 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Yes, why did Jake even give Gabi her company back if he was then going to turn around and sabotage her?  It makes him look petty and it also shows that he's still really invested in Gabi.  If he didn't care about her, he wouldn't care that she was getting on with her life.  To quote Dr. Phil "The opposite of love isn't hate.  It's indifference."

Good points. Not only is Jake's corporate inexperience showing, but he's running the company with his dick, from not taking on Gabby Chic even though it was profitable to pestering Kate to quit her job and work with him...under him....over him...in front of him....are they really going to do any work or has Jake mentally scheduled business days alternating sex and petty torment of the girl he gets boners for but doesn't want to admit it?

10 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

Abby really is losing it. Gabi was right; just put Gwen in an adult diaper and don't feed her for 24 hours to get her to talk. But Abby went from 0 to 60 (let's drug her!) pretty fast. 

If only we could all shut the curtain on smug-wannabe-badass Ciara. I'm definitely rooting for Evan in this whole crapfest.

Both of those were good scenes. And I'm glad someone finally addressed the bathroom issue when these people are tied up! 😄 I wondered that about Ava when Charlie had her.  I guess there's a handbook for captors, but Abs neglected to buy it in her haste to nab Gwen and run full steam ahead with her half-baked plan. Although she might have picked up a copy of Steffy's Famous Words because she did quote him the other day. 

10 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

I totally thought of you when Clyde told Ben to take the phone the phone to the police.  Made me chuckle.  

I don't know why but I feel like they've painted Anna morally ambiguous enough to wonder if she'll just leave Gwen there, so they kinda-sorta succeeded at a Friday Cliffhanger.  

I wanted to fist-pump "Yes!" that finally they mentioned what seemed like clue solving 101 about the phone, but of all people it was Clyde! I'm not sure why I was surprised since most of the villains on this show are smarter than the average citizens.   

I too am not sure which way Anna is going to go. Since Gwen just got captured, I almost suspect Anna will pick up her bottle of wine and simply go have a drink.  

9 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

I didn't get Abby trying to tell Gabi that her motive should be that everyone would know that she wasn't the one who drugged Abby.  Everyone already knows that.

Yeah, I expected Gabi to call her out on that one since news was already circulating that it was Gwen and not her. Give it another few days for either Julie or Nicole to spread the word and it would really be a mute point on Abby's end. 

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20 hours ago, KBrownie said:

One MAJOR and crucial difference is that Jack didn’t do all what he did to Steve and Kayla KNOWING Steve was his brother did he?

A bazillion trillion times this!!!  It would be alot easier and faster for the audience to forgive Gwen and start to accept her as a Devereaux who should slowly be embraced as such if Gwen even ONCE flat out stated that she was sorry all her scheming and crime-ing was *based on the fallacy* that Jack knowingly disavowed her and tried to get rid of her via monthly payments. But since Gwen never put in the *work* of showing remorse and seeking absolution, stupid writers think we the audience should forgive and forget simply because she had a tough childhood?! 

Using that logic, ANY and ALL rapists/murderers/etc. IRL who have a tough childhood can get off scot-free pleading their craptastic past.

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I think that currently within this show especially and soaps in general, yes, any and all rapists/murderers/etc. can get off scot-free, especially if they had a tough childhood but really even if they didn't lol. 

I don't think that TPTB are trying to say that Gwen should be forgiven. I mean, they may eventually. That's certainly their go-to. Currently, plenty of characters who should hate Gwen still do and they are not being portrayed as being bad for that. And that's why I can still enjoy her. Hell, I Ioved Ben when he first showed back up! But then they ruined it in many ways, including shoving his supposed redemption down our throats, demanding we see him as a hero, and making the people who should hate him either stop hating him or look bad for hating him. They're simply not doing that with Gwen yet

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4 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Using that logic, ANY and ALL rapists/murderers/etc. IRL who have a tough childhood can get off scot-free pleading their craptastic past.

Don't forget mothers!

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Too bad Ava doesn't have a J.D. degree; she could probably present a better defense for Sami than Belle.  Although at this point, I wish Sami would just start talking so this story moves along.  So many suspects, so many months Ron can drag this out. 

Chad's lucky there weren't any kidnappers running around Murder Park other than his wife and Gabby seeing as how I'm pretty sure he had his eyes off his kids for long enough for them to become more invisible than they already are. 

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I kind of want to see an Abigail/Gabi friendship again, especially after they've both admitted to accepting each others apologies but not being able to forget the wrongs they committed against each other.  I'm really loving their snarking at each other and working together to get even with Gwen.  I also wouldn't mind a Gabi/Abs/Gwen frenemies because the actresses work extremely well together.

Why is the murder mystery happening after sweeps?  Shouldn't this be the big storyline for a ratings grab?

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12 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

 

Why is the murder mystery happening after sweeps?  Shouldn't this be the big storyline for a ratings grab?

Because Alison Sweeney was originally going to start filming at the end of 2020 but she had other commitments that delayed her a few months.

Originally Sami was supposed to arrive in the middle of Belle and Shawn’s wedding at Marlena’s, hence why did it as a phone call. I imagine Allie was going to originally tell Sami in person rather than over zoom.

the show jus delayed things until AS was able to start filming. The murder mystery was always going to start with Sami being the first person accused.

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22 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I also wouldn't mind a Gabi/Abs/Gwen frenemies because the actresses work extremely well together.

This!  I thought about that last week.  Instead of snarking as enemies all the time, frienemies would be fun. There could still be snark but also support. 

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I want Gwen gone. Honestly. Deimos 2.0. 

I don't get Rafe trying to get Sami to confess. He's always in her corner. Hell, he helped Hope cover up Stefano's murder!! So ShutUpRafe!

I'm also tired of Belle VS Sami. Let it go, Ron.

Didn't expect Anna to casually leave Gwen to die. Guess that's what passes for humor on Days these days.

Tripp is, as always, being wasted in pointless plots.

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2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I want Gwen gone. Honestly. Deimos 2.0. 

I don't get Rafe trying to get Sami to confess. He's always in her corner. Hell, he helped Hope cover up Stefano's murder!! So ShutUpRafe!

I'm also tired of Belle VS Sami. Let it go, Ron.

Didn't expect Anna to casually leave Gwen to die. Guess that's what passes for humor on Days these days.

Tripp is, as always, being wasted in pointless plots.

Wow that's a good comparison she really is Deimos 2.0 but I liked Deimos(although he should've been Justin's brother not Victor's brother who could've taken a liking to Adrienne we could've had a Deimos/Adrienne/Justin triangle.) The show needed a long term charismatic villain since Victor is long in the tooth, Stefano is gone and VI talentwise would fit the bill but Deimos was a poorly set up character from jump.

Anna leaving Gwen to die was totally in character tbh. 

 

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1 hour ago, CanaryFan98 said:

I liked Deimos(although he should've been Justin's brother not Victor's brother who could've taken a liking to Adrienne we could've had a Deimos/Adrienne/Justin triangle.)

Hello! That would have fixed so many problems! Victor still could have hated him...but Adrienne would have had something to actually do. Nice idea.

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29 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Hello! That would have fixed so many problems! Victor still could have hated him...but Adrienne would have had something to actually do. Nice idea.

Also VI and JE had chemistry from their days together on Guiding Light. Sometimes, chemistry doesn't translate when the actors are a different soap playing different characters but it would not have hurt.

 

Why is Ava still staying at Rafe's place. Forget that she has her own apartment where the son that actually loves is living there. Or that she is a mob princess who could afford her own bodyguards. 

But she was only staying there so Rafe could protect her from Charlie. Who has been dead for at least a day.

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11 minutes ago, nilyank said:

But she was only staying there so Rafe could protect her from Charlie. Who has been dead for at least a day.

this is a soap. Dead people can and have killed.

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How old is Henry now? 6 months? Shouldn't he be a bit more, er, um, active? Not be wrapped in a blanket like this?

Maybe have Tripp do his medical residency now. This may give him something to actually do and he could help out at the one-doctor on staff at all times Salem Hospital.

Ava can certainly go home to her apartment. The family can also afford security for her and she doesn't have to live with Rafe.

So Sami's clothing has gun residue? Where did that come from?

The Sami/Belle conflict is silly. Surely there is another lawyer in Salem. No, family doesn't mean you do something for your estranged sibling.

Anna, since you don't like Gwen, you aren't really obligated to free her. You and her have never hit it off. It would be a nice thing to do, but.....

The fake fight between Abs and Gabs did seem real. And now Abs has some of Dr. Rolf's serum? Suuuuuure. Like it's easily found on the DiMera spice rack.

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24 minutes ago, Frozendiva said:

...have Tripp do his medical residency now. This may give him something to actually do and he could help out at the one-doctor on staff at all times Salem Hospital.

Isn't that off the table, what with him nearly killing patients to frame Kayla...?

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7 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

Isn't that off the table, what with him nearly killing patients to frame Kayla...?

He was still able to get into medical school; and with Kayla being the only doctor on staff at Salem Hospital, it would probably be up to her.

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7 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I want Gwen gone. Honestly. Deimos 2.0. 

I don't get Rafe trying to get Sami to confess. He's always in her corner. Hell, he helped Hope cover up Stefano's murder!! So ShutUpRafe!

I'm also tired of Belle VS Sami. Let it go, Ron.

Didn't expect Anna to casually leave Gwen to die. Guess that's what passes for humor on Days these days.

Tripp is, as always, being wasted in pointless plots.

I too am tired of Belle and Sami, they seem like a poor substitute to Carrie VS Sami.  Ron is still reliving the JER years. 

I hate Gwen.

Anna has always been selfish at heart and she is capable of devilish things, she once hypnotized Carrie to turn her against Roman in order to gain custody of her.  Ron made her too zany for my taste. 

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1 hour ago, Frozendiva said:

How old is Henry now? 6 months? Shouldn't he be a bit more, er, um, active? Not be wrapped in a blanket like this?

Maybe have Tripp do his medical residency now. This may give him something to actually do and he could help out at the one-doctor on staff at all times Salem Hospital.

Ava can certainly go home to her apartment. The family can also afford security for her and she doesn't have to live with Rafe.

So Sami's clothing has gun residue? Where did that come from?

The Sami/Belle conflict is silly. Surely there is another lawyer in Salem. No, family doesn't mean you do something for your estranged sibling.

Anna, since you don't like Gwen, you aren't really obligated to free her. You and her have never hit it off. It would be a nice thing to do, but.....

The fake fight between Abs and Gabs did seem real. And now Abs has some of Dr. Rolf's serum? Suuuuuure. Like it's easily found on the DiMera spice rack.

Well David was practically two when they still had him riding around in a stroller with a blanket over him!  Not to mention Makenzie/Rachel in a newborn baby bassinet when she was at least 9 months old.  Henry will remain swaddled up in that blanket until he is suddenly 5 years old.

Yes, the Ava at Rafe's place was stupid to begin with, it only gets more so now.

I kind of like Gabi and Abby as frenemies.  It really is a shame that they have to be teaming up against Gwen because, as others have noticed, the three of them together would be really a lot of fun.

The Sami/Belle thing is why I sometimes really hate the writing for soaps.  Rather than someone simply TALKING they have to go through the whole "I can explain" or the dancing around the subject thing.  Since they're coming at Sami so hard it's obvious she's innocent.  Belle will look pretty stupid for not even sticking around long enough to listen to the explanation.

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The chances of the Show paying for an actual baby to be in the Henry-Blanket are slim-to-none but I thought it was kinda silly that Ava was cooing about how beautiful he is when Allie was holding the blanket, rather than when the blanket was actually in Ava's arms.

The thing I liked most about Anna refusing to help Gwen was the potential for Gwen to do something rotten to Anna when she's eventually freed from her captors.  

Hopefully, the handful of comments dropped about Charlie no longer having to be dealt with were meant to be foreshadowing of his Return-From-The-Dead.  His murder mystery is so boring.  

And speaking of Charlie's Murder Mystery, why is Sami so stupid?  She has to know her finger prints were on the gun, and have some idea that you can't wash gunfire residue off of your hands.  If she isn't playing some kind of Long Con Game with the Salem PD, this story is even more stupid than I imagined.  

Abigail, Gabi and Gwen were good fun, and about the only reason to watch the episode.  

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6 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

And speaking of Charlie's Murder Mystery, why is Sami so stupid?  She has to know her finger prints were on the gun, and have some idea that you can't wash gunfire residue off of your hands.  If she isn't playing some kind of Long Con Game with the Salem PD, this story is even more stupid than I imagined.  

 

It is obvious that Sami is protecting someone that she thinks actually killed Charlie (most likely Allie) and is just contaminating the crime scene and messing up the police investigation. Which by the way is not so hard because the Salem PD are a bunch of idiots starting with the Police Commish. I bet when the time of death is finally established for Charlie's death, proof will come out that she was on a plane flying into Salem.

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3 hours ago, nilyank said:

It is obvious that Sami is protecting someone that she thinks actually killed Charlie (most likely Allie) and is just contaminating the crime scene and messing up the police investigation. Which by the way is not so hard because the Salem PD are a bunch of idiots starting with the Police Commish. I bet when the time of death is finally established for Charlie's death, proof will come out that she was on a plane flying into Salem.

Yes, I really think this theory is right.  After their big argument about their daughters, why didn't Belle think to ask Sami if that's what she was doing?  I really thought that was where that conversation was going.  Apparently, Belle is either letting her feelings for Sami ruin her judgment, or she isn't really any better as a lawyer than Justin.  Too bad they had to kill off Ted.  At least he was a competent lawyer.

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Has the autopsy even came back? 

Its possible he was poisoned or bludgeoned and technically dead before someone shot him. Or he was dead from one billet wound and someone shot the corpse a second time. Dexter would be able to answer those types of questions v easily. 

Gwen has some nerve calling Anna a lush when she is shown drinking at least once at episode since she hit Salem. A lot her scenes she’s drinking brown liquor neat alone even.

chile I can’t w this Ava and Rafe nonsense and may have to FF 

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"What are you doing down here?"

"Looking for a good Merlot. Got any recommendations?" Something about that exchange reminded me of Gilmore Girls, and I got a good chuckle.

Anna looks fabulous. 

Sami/Belle pretty much had the exact same scenes as Thursday.

I wish I could like Abby/Gabi as much as everyone else, but I don't. I still don't see much chemistry between the actresses, and I wish KM was playing Abby right now. KM's Abby is so mean spirited, spiteful, and vindictive that I could actually see her Abby kidnapping Gwen and then injecting her with the Rolf poison. MM's Abby just doesn't have that inherent vengefulness, so I don't really feel any sense of danger or suspense in those scenes. I'm kinda just ready to move on.

I find it odd that we're supposed to care about a murder mystery that literally no one on the show cares about. It's also odd to hear people like Sami, Ava, and even Rafe - a man who has covered up murder, attempted murder, and has tried to steal men's children several times - call Charlie a monster. I don't care about Charlie, but it would be helpful if the show could insert a more credible moral compass into this story. As of now, it's just something that is happening. I'm ready for Sami to get out of that interrogation room.

 

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17 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

How old is Henry now? 6 months? Shouldn't he be a bit more, er, um, active? Not be wrapped in a blanket like this?

Maybe have Tripp do his medical residency now. This may give him something to actually do and he could help out at the one-doctor on staff at all times Salem Hospital.

I was just thinking during yesterday's episode that the show needs more medical professionals and attorneys and less corporate exes. Too many characters work for Dimera, Titan, and Basic Black and those stories are often rehashes and not very interesting.  In contrast, it seems like someone is always either in the hospital or in trouble w/the law and thus there's never enough doctors and lawyers, not to mention it would seem less silly that so many people hang out at the hospital where they have private conversations if they at least had a reason to stick around or be there in the first place.   At least back in the 80's, the hospital had Alice, Maggie, Jennifer, and Eve as candy stripers giving them a reason to be there in addition to Mike, Robin, Tom, Neil, etc as doctors as well as Kimberly running an children's counseling clinic there. 

Agree too about Henry. At about 7 months, he should be squirming to get out of the blanket, his head moving all around and his body itching to sit up, roll, and maybe even crawl.  They're still running the narrative as if he's a newborn.   Though I did have to laugh at Allie's comment about Henry getting fussy around new people.  He's probably worried his mom is going to try to give him away to them next. lol

15 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

I kind of like Gabi and Abby as frenemies.  It really is a shame that they have to be teaming up against Gwen because, as others have noticed, the three of them together would be really a lot of fun.

Gabi and Abby have definitely gotten some of the best dialogue and interactions these last few days together.  In fact, their faux apology in the park was not only quite entertaining with Gaby making it hard and Abby having to suck it up, but also made BF's Chad seem unbelievably flat and out of his league. Instead EO's Gwen compliments them well.  I hope the show continues to explore this.  They often miss these  opportunities, especially with Sami who gets thrown under the bus on her own too often rather than paired with someone who compliments her. Kate and Sami are better as co-schemers rather than enemies, and I have to think Sami and Ava could have some potential too. 

14 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Hopefully, the handful of comments dropped about Charlie no longer having to be dealt with were meant to be foreshadowing of his Return-From-The-Dead.  His murder mystery is so boring.  

I hope so too! Charlie being alive is about the only twist to salvage this plot it seems.  I had assumed all the 'no longer have to deal w/Charlie' comments were just Ron's poor subtly at honing in on the characters as suspects, but I hope you're onto something that it's really the clue that Charlie isn't dead.  

8 hours ago, nilyank said:

It is obvious that Sami is protecting someone that she thinks actually killed Charlie (most likely Allie) and is just contaminating the crime scene and messing up the police investigation. Which by the way is not so hard because the Salem PD are a bunch of idiots starting with the Police Commish. I bet when the time of death is finally established for Charlie's death, proof will come out that she was on a plane flying into Salem.

I'm completely w/ya.  Everything you noted is why Ron has made what could (key word being could as in has potential but totally isn't at this point) be an interesting mystery into a badly paced mess.  All of the suspects and their accusations were basically thrown into one overly obvious episode, apparently because it was still Feb. sweeps and they had to rush it in, and then since then the plot has been back-burnered and unfolding at a snail's pace. It's been like 2 weeks our time and 2 days theirs. In that time, Rafe has spent more time talking to Ava, the victim's mother and potential suspect, who he's shared what seems like it should be 'unreleased' information at this point instead of actually interviewing anyone in Salem who had a motive, which is most of the people he knows.  And since Ron went out of his way to state that Charlie was killed the night before Rafe found Sami in the apartment with the body, the time spent on Sami at the police station is an obvious waste to the viewers since she's the one least likely to have committed it as he was dead hours before Rafe found her there. 

5 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Has the autopsy even came back? 

Its possible he was poisoned or bludgeoned and technically dead before someone shot him. Or he was dead from one billet wound and someone shot the corpse a second time. Dexter would be able to answer those types of questions v easily. 

The forensic evidence (gun powder residue, fingerprints, and coroners report) are apparently trickling in slower than election night results, and yet Rafe has already declared a winner.  Heck, Cabot Cove solved murders faster than this. But then Julie is no Jessica Fletcher.   If only the show had the budget for a Dexter guest appearance.  I just want to see one run-in with Dex and Ben where Dex gives him a wink, Bay Harbor Butcher to Necktie Killer. 😄

Good idea about the possible multiple kills on Charlie's body.  Ron might as well run w/parody of Clue in which case Charlie aka Mr. Body has been stabbed, shot, bludgeoned, and poisoned and not only is Kate's gun missing, but so is Nicole's candlestick, John's wrench, and Rafe's knives. After all, he did find Ava in the kitchen making breakfast. 

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Lolz or Charlie has a previous unbeknownst to us twin Harley and that was one killed.

Or Harley will be the one who comes to town and weirds everyone out until Allie inexplicably falls for him Cin style. 

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I am getting a kick out of Aunt Paulina....her going up against Kate seems like a good plotline.  And we get to admire Eli's fine physique 🙂

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Good for Gabi for stopping Abs from giving Gwen that horrible drug and then she doubled down on the awesome and let Gwen go.  I think the show wants us to think Anna is adorably loopy but she's a worse sociopath then Gabi and Gwen put together--she had zero problem leaving Gwen to rot in the wine cellar.  

And I loved Abby's anger about how she's supposed to just accept Gwen's actions and how she's hurt her family but Abby expects Gabi to accept and get over being sent to prison and falsely accused of another crime and Gwen's just supposed to get past her horrifying childhood but I guess it's too much for Princess Abs. to just accept that Gwen's bested her.

Could Lani and Eli be anymore dull?  DAMN!!

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I can't decide if Kate's metallic green pant suit made her look more like a leprechaun or the Oz of Emerald City. Either way, god help Basic Black if this is the clothing line they are selling. In that case, I don't think Gabby Chic's hooker-wear line has to worry about the competition.

I hope Aunt P gets the store front. She was hilarious and a breath of fresh air on today's episode. 

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"Slut-shame the BIPOC chick" may be the line of the century.

I was over the Gabi pines for Jake storyline before it even started, but major kudos to Gabi for letting Gwen go. Abigail has clearly lost control. It did seem to turn quickly though, although I'm glad we don't have weeks of Gwen in the basement.

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Basic Black is in severe trouble if their flagship store is in podunk Salem.

As much as I enjoyed the interactions between Anna and Gwen, I didn't need to see it again.

Excuse me, Nicole Brady is Hispanic.

 

Can black people talk about Paulina, and whether she's playing an offensive stereotype?

 

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22 hours ago, nilyank said:

Also VI and JE had chemistry from their days together on Guiding Light. Sometimes, chemistry doesn't translate when the actors are a different soap playing different characters but it would not have hurt.

 

Why is Ava still staying at Rafe's place. Forget that she has her own apartment where the son that actually loves is living there. Or that she is a mob princess who could afford her own bodyguards. 

But she was only staying there so Rafe could protect her from Charlie. Who has been dead for at least a day.

I agree I didn't care for Stefan/Katherine on GH but I enjoy them as Steve/Kayla on Days. For me its not that I was a Lujack/Beth fan(I didn't even watch GL back then) but more that it would've given Justin/Adrienne something to do. Victor getting up there in age there needed to be a legit patriarch to the Kiriakises they could've had a good vs bad with Justin and Deimos. I would've found that way more interesting than Xander/Phillip(who I like but the show has given me no reason to care about this feud tbh) fighting over TItan.

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Chad can get off his high horse, after all he allowed Gwen to do and he believed he doesn't get to judge Abby.

After all Gwen did include drug Abby and her psychotic plan of revenge she has audacity to say Abby should be jailed.

Eli calling her out at the station for her fake act great.

I don't watch daytime soaps for reality real life events. I could have done without the politically correct portion of the episode. 

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scarynikki12

Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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