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Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

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 Abby probably should run with the teen crowd because she doesn’t have the maturity to hang with normal girls her age who like available men.  At this point Abby is running out of female friends. Melanie and Chelsea left town; Gabby is going to prison; we haven’t seen that hooker looking friend of hers since New Years; and Sami will surely drop her ass when she finds out what a backstabber Abby’s been.

 

 

I think we see a pattern with Abigail's friends.  They either flee town never to be seen again, become unfocused enough to wind up in psychotic situations or become psychos themselves.  Paige had better distance herself from Abigail, and keep Jenn at a distance as well.  The Deveaux dames are dangerous!

I'm so going to enjoy the world of hurt Sami is going to pull down on Abigail's head.  She better not have her hair in a bun that day or Sami will be likely to pull it - and her head - right off those shoulders. 

I'm wondering now if that Midol thing was more than just another of Abigail's monthly gas attacks.  How long is it since she thought she might be pregnant?  I don't remember....if it's not too long ago, might Stefano have had the doc give her and EJ the wrong information and she IS pregnant?  While I wouldn't inflict her or Jenn on any child, the freakouts from both of them would be rather fun.

 

Why would any teens want to hang out with that boring, judgmental, psychotic, boundary-less freak Abby.

 

If there was any justice, Abigail would discover an overwhelming desire to bed Rory.  Now THAT wouldn't be fair to Rory, but man-o-man I'd LOVE to see Jenn's head explode at that.

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If there was any justice, Abigail would discover an overwhelming desire to bed Rory.  Now THAT wouldn't be fair to Rory, but man-o-man I'd LOVE to see Jenn's head explode at that.

 

I am instantly interested in this! What sort of dark spells do I have to cast in Salem to make it happen?!

 

I do admit that I am not turned off by Abby/Ben. I actually liked Abby when she was embarrassed over her modeling photos that he found or whatever. It's the most real and likable that I've seen her. There was legitimate humor to her which is a nice change from this bizarre combination of humorless earnestness that wafts around her. I mean, photoshopping him into a modeling shoot is weird but she's a soap character. Soap characters are bizarre. And tone-deaf, apparently.

 

"I don't like having my picture taken."

"Here! I secretly took a picture of you and then put that picture into another picture! Fun, huh?"

" ... ... What did I just say?!"

 

But even with that, I'm not averse to them. I can, at least, understand that Abigail looks at Ben and thinks 'Hot!' more than with EJ. EJ is so weird. I think James Scott is gorgeous and quite enjoyed him on AMC as Ethan. I just can't with EJ. Despite seeing him bang Abigail and Sami I still see him as utterly sexless. There is no underlying smoulder like there is with any number of Regency type formal gentlemen... ooo, let's get those layers and layers and layers off of you! It's just not happening for me with EJ. They could have him swing his dick around like a lasso and I'd still question whether or not he actually has one.

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I'm not really averse to Ben and Abigail either, but I'm not sure if that's because Ben seems like a step up from Chad and Cameron. Or several steps up. At least he can comb his hair.

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If there was any justice, Abigail would discover an overwhelming desire to bed Rory.  Now THAT wouldn't be fair to Rory, but man-o-man I'd LOVE to see Jenn's head explode at that.

OMG that would be great! Someone feed Abby a special donut and let 'the good times' roll.  And then let Jenn walk in!  Bonus points if stoned out of her mind, Abby giggles "this is better than both Dimera dicks I've had."  Double bonus points if it's somewhere at the hospital and Ann and Theresa are with Jenn for the reveal. 

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Did anyone else notice that nuBen's eyebrows look seriously over plucked? I did notice the way Sonny was smiling watching Ben with Ari while he was on the phone the other day. I could ship Benny to come between WilSon for a while, and can you imagine what it would do to Abigail? I pity the person who would have to reassure her after that. Gabi couldn't handle being left for a guy even though she broke up with Will first. I think Abby would do worse than hire a stalker and marry an ex-con. And I also wanted to add that EJ is completely sexless to me too. I've never understood the fascination with EJ/JS. He just looks meh to me perhaps because I watch other British soaps so he's not a novelty. Whenever he comes onscreen, my Mom says he's not nice-looking. Although the thought of him swinging his dick like a lasso is a good visual. I think I just can't buy EJ as classy because I know which part of England JS is from. Sometimes his 'posh' accent slips and he sounds like he should be on Eastenders. Now Shane/CS was truly debonair to me. I've probably said it at TWOP, but JS is also looking quite rough lately (read: tired, washed out, old). Maybe he's overworked? Lately, with his refusal to shave, the greasy flipped back hair and the overacting I have a hard time understanding the attractionfrom 8 years ago.

Edited by 271queenie
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Oh yeah, nu-Ben's eyebrows do look kind of thin for a guy.

 

He seems to also have One Direction hair.

 

I guess Chad anad Cameron set the bar so low I'm willing to tolerate this.

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Not me; I'm already at least as annoyed by NuBen as I was by the previous iteration. But then I'm rapidly losing my patience for this show as a whole.

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I don't think Nu-Ben necessarily stands out in a big way, but I guess I'm surprised he's not comatose.

 

The fact that he can say his lines and walk at the same time is a bit of a shock -- especially considering the kind of muscle shirts he likes to wear.

 

I think Jordan looked better with the glasses.

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I don't think Nu-Ben necessarily stands out in a big way, but I guess I'm surprised he's not comatose.

Personally, I think NuBen has more spark with Sonny than Abby.  I would prefer the show head in that direction and give Sonny an actual storyline instead of gazing lovingly at Will.  Enough already.  

 

I think Jordan looked better with the glasses.

That's what I thought too!  I actually thought she looked older (and not in a good way) without the glasses.  

 

Lately, with his refusal to shave, the greasy flipped back hair and the overacting I have a hard time understanding the attractionfrom 8 years ago.

He really does look terrible.  Maybe be contracted some kind of deadly STD from Abby and he's dying.  Another helpful daytime lesson on why you should always use condoms.

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I just had a disgusting and devastating thought. What is Jen gets knocked up by Dan. Is Jen too old to get pregnant? Please say yes.

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What is Jen gets knocked up by Dan. Is Jen too old to get pregnant? Please say yes.

In the real world yes, but since this is Salem, probably not. How old was Kayla when she had Joey a few years ago???

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I haven't given up on the thought Abby is pregnant. But it will take her until the EJami wedding to figure it out - whenever that is. At least we'll be spared the "talk" from JenEric about making the "decision". She'll be 6 mos along by then. Didn't the affair happen back in January?

God I wish Jack was there to pull her out of her self absorbed idiocy and go do something random and stupid and open up her world a little bit. He'd be all for JJ moving out.

I hated Jack's selfishness by leaving the family for a "walkabout" (shut up Jen) which was doubly stupid because it occurred off camera, other than the fact Jack wasn't there. This is what happens when you let Jen raise your kids, Jack.

As far as Jen getting preg, it's interesting nobody has mentioned Jen is probably ten years older than Dan. He fits better with Nicole. Not that there's anything wrong with dating younger men, hell no.

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I have nothing to back this up but I just feel like one of them is going to get pregnant. The writers are obsessed with throwing problems at Dannifer so why not give them an unwanted pregnancy. I doubt Abby has learned how to take birth control so Ben or the next guy will probably end up knocking her up.

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If either of the Deveraux hags has to be knocked up, please let it be Jenn. They could redo a Bold & Beautiful story where Jenn, in a mask, has sex with Ben (also wearing a mask), a twenty-something guy who Jenn thinks is her forty-something, perpetually tan boyfriend. That mistake leads to a baby, Abby will lose her shit and I can fast forward all these people without difficulty. Win-win in my book.

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And Jen would ignore the fact that Dirty Dan is about 5'7". Years ago they put him in a lineup with marks that made him look like he was almost 6' lmfao. NuBen looks like 5'10" or so, but I don't think Jen would mind.

There's no way in the world Abs is taking the birth control.

Edited by QuelleC

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If either one of those stupid donkeys gets pregnant their annoying, out of control, batshit crazy behavior will reach unprecedented levels and Salem will spontaneously explode.

Edited by LeftPhalange
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I hated Jack's selfishness by leaving the family for a "walkabout" (shut up Jen) which was doubly stupid because it occurred off camera, other than the fact Jack wasn't there. This is what happens when you let Jen raise your kids, Jack.

 

It was later revealed that Jack wasn't on a walkabout, but was in fact chasing a story about drug dealers. He was held captive and tortured for months on end before finally escaping. That is why he wrote the book about his experiences which was accepted for publishing right before he "died" again.

 

I refuse to believe Jack is dead. My theory is that Steve and Roman worked together to whisk a coma bound Jack out of town to save him from the drug dealers. Or from the horror that was getting back together with Jennifer. I didn't see the body - he is not dead. I believe that he has amnesia and is living a new life as Billy with a woman who actually deserves him.

 

So little to care about right now. I hate Abby. If someone doesn't want their picture taken, show a little f***ing respect for their feelings. Is she supposed to be a heroine? She's not.

 

Just tell us what the deal is with Jordan and her brother. This has drug on for way too long.

 

Skate - heaven help me, I still have hopes that these two will actually fall in love again.

 

Count me in as thinking that Sami is well aware of the affair and just biding her time. My speculation is that she will expose them at the wedding but than EJ will fake his death. Sami won't know and will realize he truly was the love of her life. She goes to his grave and tells him - he overhears and they reunite and she and the kids go off to live with EJ in some foreign country.

 

Brady needs a real story. Teresa is fun but needs to grow up. I am hoping that big sister Eve takes Brady away from her.

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I watched the clip on Youtube where Sami admits that Alan raped her, and even then Marlena seemed to give weird praise to Carrie for saving Sami from.... what? I'm not sure exactly. Marlena seemed to take Sami's moment of bravery and make it about Carrie.

 

Marlena is a strange psychiatrist. That clinically detached tone she uses with her biological children is a bit odd.

Edited by bantering
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I refuse to believe Jack is dead. My theory is that Steve and Roman worked together to whisk a coma bound Jack out of town to save him from the drug dealers. Or from the horror that was getting back together with Jennifer. I didn't see the body - he is not dead. I believe that he has amnesia and is living a new life as Billy with a woman who actually deserves him.

Is anyone in Salem ever really dead?  As much as I’ve disliked Jack’s character since the day he showed up on screen and became a throne (and much more) in Kayla and Steve’s side, it would make a good storyline to finally bring back Steve, Bo, and Jack in an epic adventure that better explains their absences and in the end reunites them with their families as heroes (Steve and Bo) and Jack decides he likes being Billy better because his Horton wife and kids have become such pains in the asses.

 

So little to care about right now. I hate Abby. If someone doesn't want their picture taken, show a little f***ing respect for their feelings. Is she supposed to be a heroine? She's not.

YES

 

Just tell us what the deal is with Jordan and her brother. This has drug on for way too long.

Yes, Yes

 

Count me in as thinking that Sami is well aware of the affair and just biding her time. My speculation is that she will expose them at the wedding but than EJ will fake his death. Sami won't know and will realize he truly was the love of her life. She goes to his grave and tells him - he overhears and they reunite and she and the kids go off to live with EJ in some foreign country.

I could live with that. I’m a sucker for sweet HEA moments between a couple when they have chemistry together. (So that statement does not apply to Dannifer should they ever leave the screen together...or Eric and Nicole)

 

Marlena is a strange psychiatrist. That clinically detached tone she uses with her biological children is a bit odd.

I’m surprised she’s never blamed that on Stefano. Technically due to all the years she was “dead” she didn’t do much of the raising of her kids. Roman/John floated around testing out various step-mommies as he smelled the farts of Olivia Reed, Diana Colville, Bianca Torres, and Isabella Tuscano during most of the kids’ formative years. Sami and Eric would have only been like two when Marlena began being kidnapped and “murdered” (paraphrasing the various plots where Marlena was out of their lives).

Edited by Peanut6711

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Marlena also kind of looks like she's smelling a fart whenever she has to listen to someone's problems. Her nose does this seemingly weird upturned thing where it seems like she's trying to register a scent of some kind rather than listen to what the person has to say.

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Marlena also kind of looks like she's smelling a fart whenever she has to listen to someone's problems.

Perhaps it's a contagious nose disease that Stefano afflicted John with and Marlena has caught it too. Brady would probably have it except his drug addiction has given him immunity--he's snorted so much cocaine that he can't smell at all!

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My speculation is that she will expose them at the wedding but than EJ will fake his death. Sami won't know and will realize he truly was the love of her life. She goes to his grave and tells him - he overhears and they reunite and she and the kids go off to live with EJ in some foreign country.

I don't want Sami and EJ to end up together, but I do like the part where Sami exposes him at their wedding. It would be a nice change to have Sami be the one to ruin her wedding day---by choice.

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I guess the show must be really slow/bad if that's all  that's left to talk about is the character's  mannerisms. So sad

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I don't want Sami and EJ to end up together, but I do like the part where Sami exposes him at their wedding. It would be a nice change to have Sami be the one to ruin her wedding day---by choice.

 

I would love for this to happen.  I really wanted Sami and Kate to be working together against EJ and Stefano, but I don't think that will happen because these writers seem to thrive on making the women fight each other when it's the men they should want to shove off a cliff, or shoot in the head.

 

It's sad to see Marlena and Roman now.  I loved their original story when they first got together.

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If either one of those stupid donkeys gets pregnant their annoying, out of control, batshit crazy behavior will reach unprecedented levels and Salem will spontaneously explode.

 

Now that's really unfair to donkeys. Actually, I can't think of any animals that are boring, nosy, lazy, entitled, and self-absorbed like Jen and Abby, so there probably isn't a fair comparison to be made in the whole animal kingdom.  I agree with the rest of your sentiment, though.  Those two hags are horrible. 

 

There has got to be more interesting preople the show could bring back and focus on instead.  I like Peanut6711's idea of a Steve, Bo, and Jack adventure.

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I have nothing to back this up but I just feel like one of them is going to get pregnant.

 

NO MORE PREGNANCIES!  NO MORE BABIES!!  Enough with the pregnancy/baby storylines!  I can't think of anything more boring than a baby storyline.  Oh wait, yes I can - the Jordan and Ben "secret" storyline that has gone on for centuries now.  Unless their secret is a Flowers in the Attic kind of thing, I don't care.  There's no secret in the world that would make those two interesting.  I'm calling it now - they were abused by their father and Ben killed him.  And they are on the run and Ben plucks his eyebrows into interesting shapes so no one will recognize him. 

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Count me in for an 80s-style adventure with Steve, Bo, and Jack. How I loved Jack back then. And Jennifer was a great comedic heroine with heart in those romps, too. Hard to believe she's the same actress and character. 

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Can Nicole at least have the decency to admit she was never going to tell the truth on her own.

 

Are they trying to turn Bev into another Nicole? The desperation is unattractive.

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Show is pissing me off, because I completely agree with Jen, and I really want to smack Nicole.  And it is so obvi that they are setting up a Jen/Eric pairing....

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And it is so obvi that they are setting up a Jen/Eric pairing....

 

The Mrs. Rachel Lynde in my head is knitting furiously in anticipation.

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As far as Jen getting preg, it's interesting nobody has mentioned Jen is probably ten years older than Dan. He fits better with Nicole. Not that there's anything wrong with dating younger men, hell no.

 

 

Is this an in-show assessment, based on whenever it would have been that Maggie attempted in-vitro? I just ask, because the actor who plays Daniel is about a year and a half older than Missy Reeves.

Edited by CindyMcLennan

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Who is Mrs. Rachel Lynde?

 

ok, is Daniel going to break up with Jen because the story was his to tell?  I broke up with someone for that once.  It was in the 4th grade.

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Heh. I'm only half-way through and came in to talk about Jennifer before I forgot to. Aside from her beigeness, she finally had a point and is nailing Nicole. Atta girl. You can see these couples realigning as we speak. But Nicole -- why did you wear gold lame flats with that outfit? I'm not giving her much slack these days. 

 

I think Arianna Grace has a thing for NuBen. She could hardly pull her big blue eyes away from him and then it was to look from nuWill to Sonny as if to say, "Can we have him, too?" Adorable baby. 

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Because of how haggard Daniel's face is, I thought he and Jennifer were the same age.

 

The problem with Jennifer is her beige make-up, but considering how much work Daniel puts into his abs I have no idea why his face and hair look like that.

Edited by bantering

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There is something seriously wrong with this show and the writing when Nicole points out all of Jenn's major personality flaws (that were spot on) in the first 15 minutes and yet Jenn still makes more sense than Nicole. 

 

I think Arianna Grace has a thing for NuBen.

If NuBen is lucky they will SORAS Arianna Grace before Abigail gets her claws into him. 

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Who is Mrs. Rachel Lynde?

 

 

Marilla Cuthbert's friend. Sorry. Anne issues.

 

Because of how haggard Daniel's face is, I thought he and Jennifer were the same age.

 

 

 

Well, they basically are. He's a year or two older than she, not 10 years younger (at least actor-wise). I also don't think his character is supposed to be 10 years younger, but I've been wrong about this show more often than not, so who am I to say?

Edited by CindyMcLennan

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Ok I guess I never bothered to look up Dr Grope's age but I always felt he was playing 40's with Chloe and Nicole, and Jen was playing early 50's because I remember when she had her kids. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I sort of understood he was almost40 when he conceived with 30something Chloe. So yeah, in-story assumption so no problems.

And yes, I remember it wasn't really a "walkabout" I was talking about how Jack left the family with an excuse and Jen kept repeating that word.

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Jennifer was born on the show - we literally saw Laura deliver her on a kitchen table.  Per Wikipedia, this was in 1976, but she was sorased so her birthdate was changed to 1970.  So she is 44.  Which makes no sense since she was out of college and married by the time Abigail was born and she got married at a normal age, not in high school.  And now Abigail is out of college.  But I had a feeling Dan was around 44 and Chloe was much younger.  She came back to town for her 10 year high school reunion and got involved with Dan shortly thereafter.

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So Jenn told Eric because "HE'S MY FRIEND!!"  Oh WTF Haggie, what a load of crap, Eric's no more her friend than her overused eyeliner is.  She's hung around with him a time or two and that's it, since he got back.  Nicole may be  pathetic - and she is - but Jenn did what she most enjoys and that's interfering in other people's lives.  And it was an extra added thrill for her because she was able to get a dig in at Nicole at the same time. 

Oh, Jenn was right, Nicole wasn't going to tell Eric, not until she had to and probably not then.  But Jenn didn't tell him because she gave a rats ass about Eric.  It's about getting Nicole and it's about putting Daniel in his place.  Looks like Dirty Dan just might be moving on from the Virgin Queen.  Fine with me - when they show Dan less, and not with Jenn, I don't mind him as much.

 

And I see Abigail has a reason to be happy again.  Someone else has betrayed, this time it's Gabi.  Nothing makes her happier than feeling that someone isn't up to her standards.  Maybe she can get together with Ben and pluck eyebrows together.

 

And now I need me some Pop Up Victor - stat!

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Jenn seriously looked weird today, the way she was holding her head, the flesh tone lip gloss, just everything. Today showed me that she's not that good of an actress either. She strains very hard when she's getting all emotional, you can see it in her neck. It's sad when I'm paying attention to her neck more than her face.

 

Kate looked a little different today, her face isn't as tight as I'm use to seeing it, which I like. 

 

Abby, girl please sit, she can't even make her crying believable. WTF, why was she asking Gabi to stay when the police officer just came in there and told them that Gabi's case is next. Geez Abby quit being so damn self-centered.

 

Does Jenn even have any "friends", cause I know I laughed when she said Eric is her friend. In your imagination he is. Jenn & Eric are gonna have some sex down the road. I really think Jenn being with Eric would make MR happy because she's religious and Eric being a religious character, it'll work out for her. 

 

I missed a few days but did we see Kayla at all? Why aren't they putting her on more since she has a thing for Aidan. It would be nice to see Kayla try to at least ask him out or flirt with him or continue to ask Hope questions about him. Writers are missing the boat because I bet there is more chemistry between Kayla and Aidan than there is between Hope and Aidan.

 

Poor JJ stuck in this stupid story and now he's gonna have back problems. I hope I'm wrong on this, I really hope they're not gonna have JJ addicted to pain killers because he hurt his back and drag him down into another drug related story.

 

NuBen and his over plucked eyebrows is funny. Ben doesn't do anything for me, still boring.

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So Jenn told Eric because "HE'S MY FRIEND!!"  Oh WTF Haggie, what a load of crap, Eric's no more her friend than her overused eyeliner is.  She's hung around with him a time or two and that's it, since he got back. 

 

Don't forget, Kristen was her friend, too.  She thought.

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I forgot to mention the best part of today's show and that was Kate.  Kate's cheery doesn't give two fracks about dead Nick, but fierce in telling Gabi that she did a righteous kill.   That's a little too strong of a pat on the back to Gabi IMO but I do like Kate being who she is and not giving two shits whether anyone else likes it or not.

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I missed a few days but did we see Kayla at all? Why aren't they putting her on more since she has a thing for Aidan. It would be nice to see Kayla try to at least ask him out or flirt with him or continue to ask Hope questions about him. Writers are missing the boat because I bet there is more chemistry between Kayla and Aidan than there is between Hope and Aidan.

Nope, as usual, no Kayla. And I totally agree she has more chemistry with Aiden than Hope does. And now that Hope is realizing that Aiden isn't such a bad guy, doesn't she owe Kayla an apology for trashing him???   What irritates me about the casting on this show is that TPTB don't seem to know when they have characters that the audience relates to/likes and when they don't. If they did, they'd quite relegating MBE to recurring status and cut KM from her contract. 

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Who is Mrs. Rachel Lynde?

 

Ever since I got a whiff of Eric/Jennifer being a possibility, I've transported them to Avonlea a la Anne of Green Gables where all they do is attend church picnics together, make various types of cordials and jams, and engage in a courtship that involves nothing more than walking side by side... perhaps the scandalous part would be if they loitered at the ice cream shop after 7pm. Mrs. Rachel Lynde in the Anne books is the resident busybody and has plenty to say about everyone, particularly if she doesn't approve.

 

And she'd have a lot to say about a handsome, young, unwed minister and the trouble he can cause in a small town!

 

This is already formulating in my head, much like the Marlena who is performing experiments on everyone in Salem. This is how I amuse myself through the stupid.

 

Now, seriously, what is the deal with Jennifer's hair?! It's bad enough that she's all taupe but what is that? A wee little bump-it or something to give her some volume but not enough to be scandalous or something? And, also seriously, was she whining about Nicole tearing Daniel apart? She was doing just fine in the argument with Nicole until that point. (Sidenote: Nicole, shut up. You weren't going to tell Eric. Ever. You can bleat all you want about how you were going to tell him 'in your own time' but Jennifer was absolutely right to not believe a word of that.) Once she had to invoke the majesty of Daniel and his deep and powerful compassion that run so so very deep... forget it. What we ended up with was an argument where both people sucked. Daniel Jonas: The Doctor Who Feels Too Much (But Doesn't Bathe Enough)

 

I hope Daniel/Nicole totally fuck because that's usually what anger and holding back of slaps and such result in. At the same time... that would just further the Eric/Jennifer Avonlea Love Carriage. I'm torn. I really am.

 

So... are we done with everyone in Salem visiting Gabi yet because I am so beyond over it at this point.

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So... are we done with everyone in Salem visiting Gabi yet because I am so beyond over it at this point.

Apparently not. Julie’s back to demand her turn. If Doug has any balls he’d put three bullets in her to finally shut her big bossy mouth up.

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I see Eric's story still isn't about him.

 

The writers are idiots.  Put Kayla with Aidan, and put Hope with Rafe. 

 

Have Kate and Sami kill Stefano and EJ, and get away with it.  Kate can have DE, and Sami can have CW and run it from Chicago.

 

I see what people have been saying about JS looking ragged.  Is it because EJ is supposed to be stressed, or does JS just not give a damn how he looks anymore?

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The writers are idiots.  Put Kayla with Aidan, and put Hope with Rafe.

YES! Both pairs have hints of some chemistry; they need to explore that. They also need to give up on the long and winding road to Jordan's secret reveal and produce an anonymous loaded donor for the Catholic school so they don't have to worry about fundraisers. End of both stories. 

 

Sami should turn out to be Kate's daughter. 

 

Is Marlena--the woman once possessed by the devil and responsible for the fake death of half of Salem really going to pass judgement on what Kate and Sami did? Has she been hanging out with the Hortons lately?

Edited by Peanut6711
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I couldn't even dispute what Jennifer was saying during the Jennifer and Nicole conversation. Why does Nicole keep lying??? Nonetheless, when Jennifer went a bit berserk about how much Daniel cares about Nicole, I started looking at her the way Nicole was looking.

 

Abigail's crying reminded me of the crying she did when Chloe shut her down. Weird.

 

I wish I could care that Paige is being punk'd.

Edited by bantering
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scarynikki12

Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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