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Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

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34 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

@peachmangosteen SN/Stevano is 69 years old. Crazy. 

I that episode w rumpled hair in bed w Kate and goofying around in the apartment he looked a cool late 40s.

Wow.  Just... wow.

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I was proud of Maggie for working so hard to make things right--admitting to the drinking and driving, wanting Will to be released as quickly as possible, needing to speak directly to Justin to apologize for the pain she caused--and she has shown genuine remorse and I hope she's able to recover from all of this pain,  DAMN!

She's making the most of her bail.  For a person like Maggie, being able to express remorse to those she's wronged is VITAL.  And her words reflected how realistically she understood the impact of the pain she caused each person.  I hope I never do something so wrong that requires this kind of apology but if I do, Maggie sets a great example.  

2 hours ago, buffynut said:

I know a lot of you hate CIN and are probably ff-ing through all the related scenes, but for a CIN fan, it's really a good story right now.  Watching Ciara desperately try to find Jordan's baby daddy / probably killer, while Ben's like "Babe, we're down to hours before my execution". Plus Rafe finding out about Evan changing his name to the same name as the DNA found on Jordan's body.  It's really good. Honest. 😄

 

@buffynut There is nothing more thrilling than have your OTP get a freaking great storyline.  I might side-eye some of the visuals but this is some ooey-gooey dessert for others and I am delighted by that.

 

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2 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

SN/Stevano looks great for his age dude’s almost 70 and is handsome and fit enough to pass for 50 something. 

For real! I mean, I loathe this story but mmm boy SN looks great. This week especially with that black suit and red tie..mmm I had to remind myself he's old enough to be my father😂

 

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I hate watching live. I really need to ff these Clyde/Ben scenes. Clyde is a child abuser and I am tired of seeing him get all these scenes with his poor baby murderer son. Ben should be hating him, his abuse is likely what caused issues in his children. I don't care about his pity party. He did NOT do the best he could and breaking Ben out of prison does not make up for his abuse.

This show keeps making Ciara look selfish. Once again Rafe is handling business about his kid and Ciara dismisses it. They should have let Rafe say he just got off the phone with child welfare and ask her whats going on. If Ben only has a couple hours left, how does Ciara expect to force a confession out of a murderer that has kept quiet for a year?

There is no way Davids DNA would be an exact match for his father. The lab should have been able to tell from the beginning that someone elses DNA was on Jordan.

Rafe is on the stupid side. He rushes home because a liar has weazeled his way into taking care of his son and instead of keeping David with him or following Christian while he got his belongings, he just lets this man freely walk around his home.  Now that Ethan has ran off with David, I need to know why he didn't do that to begin with?

The Sonny and Will reunion is just so lack luster. It is like they are living in the land of lollipops and roses. Sonny wasn't allowed to actually move on so there is no obstacles in there way. They don't have Maggie and Victor, every thing is just perfect. How was Will planning on taking Ari out of school if he was also planning on going to Bens execution?

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I am not sure I believe that Stefano would believe Justin could persuade Marlena to want him. Marlena would know something was up the moment he even brought it up. Stevano is better off kidnapping her again and running off.

I laughed when John looked at Justin like he should have known Marlena was with Ben. I hope Justin tells John what Stevano wants. He can't trade one victim for another.

Kayla should have hit Rolfe over the head when she had the chance.

I muted the Marlena/Ben scenes but i couldn't get to the remote fast enough and heard her say he has done bad things but has done everything he could to make up for it. You cannot makeup for killing people. Paige, elephant jewel thief, and Abby's nurse are all still dead.

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Show was interrupted at the beginning for a brief news break. Then for the rest of the show, they couldn't get their commercials and Show lined up.  They would interrupt commercials to go back to the show, and they would interrupt Show to go back to commercials.

I think Jordan may disagree with Ben's assertion that Clyde was the best father he knew how to be.

Wow, this was a busy episode.  But still, I would have liked to have had Marlena make ONE comment about Will being let out of jail.

 

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3 hours ago, Thatoneshow said:

I hate watching live. I really need to ff these Clyde/Ben scenes. Clyde is a child abuser and I am tired of seeing him get all these scenes with his poor baby murderer son. Ben should be hating him, his abuse is likely what caused issues in his children. I don't care about his pity party. He did NOT do the best he could and breaking Ben out of prison does not make up for his abuse.

This show keeps making Ciara look selfish. Once again Rafe is handling business about his kid and Ciara dismisses it. They should have let Rafe say he just got off the phone with child welfare and ask her whats going on. If Ben only has a couple hours left, how does Ciara expect to force a confession out of a murderer that has kept quiet for a year?

There is no way Davids DNA would be an exact match for his father. The lab should have been able to tell from the beginning that someone elses DNA was on Jordan.

Rafe is on the stupid side. He rushes home because a liar has weazeled his way into taking care of his son and instead of keeping David with him or following Christian while he got his belongings, he just lets this man freely walk around his home.  Now that Ethan has ran off with David, I need to know why he didn't do that to begin with?

The Sonny and Will reunion is just so lack luster. It is like they are living in the land of lollipops and roses. Sonny wasn't allowed to actually move on so there is no obstacles in there way. They don't have Maggie and Victor, every thing is just perfect. How was Will planning on taking Ari out of school if he was also planning on going to Bens execution?

Thank you for mentioning the scenes between Clyde & Ben....I found those appalling!  Was I supposed to feel all warm & happy about Clyde apologizing to Ben for being a 'bad father"?!  Clyde is a horrible person, I don't buy that he suddenly is feeling all 'fatherly" towards his son that he abused(so much so, that Ben & Jordan ran away from home).  That scene was icky(and the food Ben was eating looked terrible!)

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18 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

But still, I would have liked to have had Marlena make ONE comment about Will being let out of jail.

 

You must have missed it with the interruption

image.png.8860085410141159e19a194ebd19fc17.png

 

Edited by buffynut
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3 hours ago, Thatoneshow said:

I hate watching live. I really need to ff these Clyde/Ben scenes. Clyde is a child abuser and I am tired of seeing him get all these scenes with his poor baby murderer son. Ben should be hating him, his abuse is likely what caused issues in his children. I don't care about his pity party. He did NOT do the best he could and breaking Ben out of prison does not make up for his abuse.

This show keeps making Ciara look selfish. Once again Rafe is handling business about his kid and Ciara dismisses it. They should have let Rafe say he just got off the phone with child welfare and ask her whats going on. If Ben only has a couple hours left, how does Ciara expect to force a confession out of a murderer that has kept quiet for a year?

There is no way Davids DNA would be an exact match for his father. The lab should have been able to tell from the beginning that someone elses DNA was on Jordan.

Rafe is on the stupid side. He rushes home because a liar has weazeled his way into taking care of his son and instead of keeping David with him or following Christian while he got his belongings, he just lets this man freely walk around his home.  Now that Ethan has ran off with David, I need to know why he didn't do that to begin with?

The Sonny and Will reunion is just so lack luster. It is like they are living in the land of lollipops and roses. Sonny wasn't allowed to actually move on so there is no obstacles in there way. They don't have Maggie and Victor, every thing is just perfect. How was Will planning on taking Ari out of school if he was also planning on going to Bens execution?

He did not do it to start with because he needed shelter and food.

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From the managing editor at our own Primetimer:

I love them, and I loved their too brief reunion today, but you bet your ass I was howling at some of the dialogue in their scenes. I don't know how the guys got through some of their lines! 🤣

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In his own twisted way, Clyde has been trying to change/make up for his past behaviour towards Ben back at least to when Abigail first got pregnant and Ben thought he was the father, and Clyde bought Ben and Abigail a house.  

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This was actually a super entertaining episode. I did obviously skip the scenes where Marlena tells Ben he is a saint/Jesus Christ incarnate or whatever and the ones where they tried to redeem a child molester though so that helped.

I forgot to comment on this yesterday but what in the fresh hell is Ciara's whole look? This poor girl is being abused by the costume/makeup department!

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Where is David?  If you're REALLY his father and care enough to kidnap him (even if only for the leverage) wouldn't you want to make sure he stays alive?  Is he supposedly in the car?

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5 minutes ago, DaphneCat said:

Where is David?  If you're REALLY his father and care enough to kidnap him (even if only for the leverage) wouldn't you want to make sure he stays alive?  Is he supposedly in the car?

That was my first thought as well lol. Like seriously, what did Evan do with him? Maybe he's with whoever Evan called and asked for help.

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I agree SN has aged like fine wine. 

That being said if I thought Ben was going to die I'd be a lot more excited that he's going to be executed but its all FF material for me except the stuff with Clyde as I think that's his best relationship on the show but I make sure to play the tiniest violin I can find...

 

Course if this show was smart it would've been better if JJ and Eve were there watching Ben get executed and enjoying it but I digress.

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Full disclosure: CIN fan here..
 

However....

Fuck you, Marlena, for telling Ben he “did some bad things.”  He murdered people! Ugh. I don’t care if they try to redeem him, but to white wash it completely is absolutely ridiculous.

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Clyde is scum, but James Read is a very good actor.

Too good for this crap.

Once again, I feel the need to point out that Illinois. Does. Not. Have. The. Death. Penalty! I know, it's a soap, blah, blah, suspend reality and all that good stuff. I just can't with this particular storyline.

Once she's free from her latest kidnapping, Kayla really needs to rethink her hairstyle.

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Ben, your father did NOT do the best he could.  He're a better line if you are trying to have 'closure': I know you care for me, and despite what happened in the past, I will go to my death knowing that you tried to save my life.  I mean, it's accurate and doesn't white-wash the past. It's not forgiveness either. 

Rafe, you SHOULD lose custody of David.  YoSu should have taken David out of his room and held him while Evan/Christian packed.  *dumb*

I actually don't mind Will bonding with Ben.  Because I think Ben had Will's back in prison and Will can see this is not the same psycho that tried to kill him.  I agree it's weird but it makes more sense than what Marlena was saying.  

I was also glad to see Ben basically say he had it coming.  He's not wrong (although I personally don't believe in the death penalty as a moral choice or effective deterrent).

I thought Justin agreed just to keep negotiations open, I don't think for a minute he's going to offer Marlena for Kayla.  It's why he went straight to John.  Justin is going to play this straight - he's going to look for the 'exchange' with Marlena as a way to trap Stevano.

Sonny MUST stay married to Will because otherwise he's a walking disaster at relationships.  First Leo and now Evan.  Dude has NO survival skills.

 

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6 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Where is David?  If you're REALLY his father and care enough to kidnap him (even if only for the leverage) wouldn't you want to make sure he stays alive?  Is he supposedly in the car?

Considering the shit storm that was this episode, David is probably driving the car.  I bet he's behind the wheel, smoking a Marlboro and cracking open a beer while Daddy Dreariest is in with Sonny.

Just a few changes I'd make with the Sonny/Will scenes.

When Will asked Sonny about Evan, instead of telling Will that Evan was a really good guy, he should have said he was just with him for the sex.

When Will said he was going back to be with Ben at his execution, Sonny should have offered to make popcorn.  Do you think there's a concession stand in the execution chamber?  Maybe an ice cream bar?

When Evan showed up and there was that awkward silence between them, somebody should have broken the ice and suggested a three way.

What??  None of this is ANY worse than the crap we saw.

6 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This was actually a super entertaining episode. I did obviously skip the scenes where Marlena tells Ben he is a saint/Jesus Christ incarnate or whatever and the ones where they tried to redeem a child molester though so that helped.

According to Marlena, Ben made amends and he even apologized.  Yep, he went the whole nine yards.  Of course, he should probably have found some sort of card, maybe 

like this,

giphy.gif

It would have made all the difference with Eve and Serena and Wendy's families.  Tis' the little things that count, Marlena!  (Right now, as far as I'm concerned, if Stevano wants Marlena he can have her).

I was hoping - and it still might happen - that Paige, Serena and Wendy will appear in ethereal form at Ben's execution and beg his forgiveness for being in his way.   It's not all HIS fault now, is it?  After all, it takes two to murder.

Dear, sweet, lovable old Clyde, what a wunnerful Gwampaw he'll make some day, whittlin' knifes and carving guns for the young'uns, telling them stories about the old days when he abused his kids.  If only Jordan was still around to tell him that raping her was no big deal since he wished he'd not been so bad.  

All I can say is that Ben is having a fairytale ending, finding the love of a good woman.  Of course, he had to kill three women first before he found Ciara.  Must be that old Men are Mars, Women are from Venus thing.

Tiny thing, but I'm surprised Ben had pizza and fried chicken as a last meal.  He's not going to keep those abs by eating like that!  Besides, he's going to be very embarrassed if he passes gas while he's strapped down for his botox injections.

Oh!  One last thing.  I found this picture of Ron C., taken when he got the idea for this storyline.

giphy.gif

Man is a genius, I tell you, a genius.

Edited by boes
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Not much to say that hasn't already been said.

Found it interesting that Kayla wanted to see Rolf's notes on how to capture the consciousness/soul of someone and stick them in to someone else. Too bad she wasn't smarter to wait a little to see if anyone else was coming in the door.

Marlena's jacket's buttons were glaring. Maybe she's on an 80s style kick?

For my last meal, I would want more than pizza and fried chicken. Maybe a nice steak, roasted potatoes or even Tater Tots, strawberry shortcake for dessert, and maybe a nice Chianti.

Rafe, you should have picked up David while Evan/Christian was packing up his stuff. It kinda is your fault for not following up with Child Services when your letter didn't arrive within 10 business days. At least Ciara connected a few dots for you. Really sloppy work of the Salem PD to not notice the DNA when the case was being investigated.

James Read is too good for this show. He can use a few therapy sessions to deal with his stuff. Unlike a lot of Salem, Ben owned his stuff. He and Gabi have that in common. Yes, Marlena, he did some bad things. They should stay with him for a very long time.

Sonny, you could have simply told Evan that what was going on was physical. I thought I had bad luck in dating. Guess with the Kiriakis name and the stupidity, you gets what ya gets.

Where is the baby?

 

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On 2/25/2020 at 4:17 AM, CanaryFan98 said:

A theory on why Gabi would be the match. One of Gabi's eggs was used to create Mickey in the first place. So while we're told the baby is Brady/Kristen's its at the very least not Kristen's with this theory.

Huh?  Say what?  Seriously? 

Oh great, This is a cheap ripoff of Nicole /Chloe/Holly .

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9 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Unlike a lot of Salem, Ben owned his stuff. He and Gabi have that in common.

I don't really equate Gabi saying "I'm the victim" with owning your stuff.

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8 hours ago, Rafael said:

Huh?  Say what?  Seriously? 

Oh great, This is a cheap ripoff of Nicole /Chloe/Holly .

I just wouldn't put it past this show

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I could have slapped the compound shit out of both Marlena and Will. Marlena's granddaughter is about to undergo surgery, and where is she? Will just got out of  prison, but it was more important to be there for his new bff instead of his husband and daughter. It's ridiculous.🙄

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22 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This was actually a super entertaining episode. I did obviously skip the scenes where Marlena tells Ben he is a saint/Jesus Christ incarnate or whatever and the ones where they tried to redeem a child molester though so that helped.

I forgot to comment on this yesterday but what in the fresh hell is Ciara's whole look? This poor girl is being abused by the costume/makeup department!

The NAILS!!!! I didn't even notice what she was wearing, I couldn't tear my eyes away from the FUGLY White nails.

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7 hours ago, Sidney said:

I could have slapped the compound shit out of both Marlena and Will. Marlena's granddaughter is about to undergo surgery, and where is she? Will just got out of  prison, but it was more important to be there for his new bff instead of his husband and daughter. It's ridiculous.🙄

Marlena doesn't get to be with her own family most of the time, and it's a legit miracle she gets to be with Will on Monday, because more than one person in charge at Days believes it's not fair that Marlena (and John) get so many family interactions and that they should have to share those interactions with others. I wish I were making that up.

And haven't you heard? Ben is our new lord and savior! Who wouldn't want to be near him for his cult of personality alone?!?! 😉 But really, Ben is one of Ron's favorites so everyone else is receiving some very odd characterization to apparently sell to viewers that Ben is accepted within Salem now. I'm just glad Will went to see Sonny, and mentioned their daughter, but they basically needed to get Will out of there to be able to get Evan/Christian alone with Sonny.

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I need someone to hand me a tissue because those Ben/Clyde were seriously heartwarming. *shakes head* Sorry, replace "tissue" with puke bucket and "seriously heartwarming" with seriously enraging. For a second there, the writers attempt to repeatedly hit us over the head with a hammer to get across the WESTONS ARE REDEEMED message got to me.

My eyes rolled so far in the back of my head when Ben talked about "the bad stuff." What a way to gloss over severe child abuse and molestation. Abuse so severe it's supposedly to blame for whatever the hell mental illness Ben supposedly has. How low has this show gone when they're trying to elicit warm and fuzzies over the connection between a child abuse/molester and a serial killer? At least, they gave Ben his unnamed mental illness as an excuse but they haven't gone that far for Papa Clyde...yet. 

I really wanted to full enjoy Sonny and Will's reunion because it was kind of cute how giddy they both were but I think Sonny might have been a little too giddy. I hated how he glossed over some stuff that shouldn't have been. I HATED either of them expressing any concern for Victor's health. I get neither of them are ghouls and Victor is Sonny's family, but they should both be beyond pissed at what he did to both of them and what he did to their daughter.

I think Sonny was far too understanding of Will being willing to stay in prison. It was nice but such a dumb thing to do because again, HELLO, they have a daughter who kind of needed both of her dads. He was also way, way, way too cool with Will just skipping off to go to Ben's execution. He just got reunited with his husband after over a year and it's more important he attend his would-be killer's execution - not to cheer it on but weep over him and lend support.

I did have to laugh at how many times Sonny had to say how he only broke up with Will because he thought he killed his mom. Only on a soap do you have to say a line like that. I wondered what was going through FS's mind when he read the script. His facial expression when Evan whipped out the gun was also amusing.

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Am I really the only one on this forum who was moved by the scenes between Clyde and Ben.  James Read is such a good actor, that I believed he felt remorse for his past. 

I also believe if they kept him on the show, he could easily become the new "big bad" and be much more threatening than ridiculous Stevano, and poor geriatic Victor and love-sick Xander.

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49 minutes ago, buffynut said:

Am I really the only one on this forum who was moved by the scenes between Clyde and Ben.  James Read is such a good actor, that I believed he felt remorse for his past. 

I'm sure if I had watched them they probably would have pulled me in just because yea JR is great but then I would have remembered what Clyde has done and I would have just been utterly enraged. You can't redeem a child molester with one fucking heartwarming scene! I mean, honestly, you shouldn't even try to redeem a child molester (or a serial killer!) but if you're going to, you gotta put in just a little bit of effort lol.

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2 hours ago, buffynut said:

Am I really the only one on this forum who was moved by the scenes between Clyde and Ben.  James Read is such a good actor, that I believed he felt remorse for his past. 

 

I'm glad you got something out of it.  I agree that Read is a good actor, it's just that he's playing a horrible character.  Him expressing remorse about the past just made me dislike him more.  It was sentimental clap trap with no meaning since we've seen not one jot of difference in his behavior, just words regretting the past.  It's not that long ago he had his kid shanked and tried to kill Will, and his conversation with Ciara dripped with contempt.  Talk is cheap.

He didn't even have the decency of telling Ben WHAT he was sorry about.  Clyde is a like a guy who kicks a dog and then wonders why it doesn't come running when he has a treat.  

I was moved, but in the opposite direction.

But Show always does this, good actor or not.  It gives us some sentimental drivel with nothing to back it up and expects us to lap it up.  

Edited by boes
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1 hour ago, buffynut said:

I also believe if they kept him on the show, he could easily become the new "big bad" and be much more threatening than ridiculous Stevano, and poor geriatic Victor and love-sick Xander.

I agree that Clyde could truly become an evil force.  We were always supposed to believe that underneath Stefano's and Victor's nasty exteriors was just a soft gushy center.  They loved their families.  With Clyde, you can believe that while he feels momentary twinges of guilt or regret, they are not strong enough to make him really want to be a better person.  He could just be evil.

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/rant (but polite) on see bold for summary:

I've been thinking about something. WHAT could Ben do, what attitude could he take, what could the show do to make it seem like he's atoned for his heinous crimes?  I actually believe in forgiveness. And "cured Ben", while overly codependent on Ciara, is a pretty standup guy.

I compare him with Maggie.  Who is currently expressing remorse to everyone, know matter how much they don't want to hear it.  Maggie is following the AA steps.  

Of course it's easy for me to say that drunk driving is negligent homicide (or is it Murder 2?) while being a serial killer who commits premeditated murder (multiple Murder 1) is not the same thing.  But we've got the whole 'raised by a psycho' background and we've SEEN Ben's mental hallucinations without his medication. So.... here's what I would say would be things the show could do that would help to lessen the 'redeemed serial killer stench" that clings to Ben:
1) Show he's truly remorseful -- I think they've done that
2) Show him ostracized by the town - they did that but had Ciara on his side
3) Have him keep his nose clean - they've done that
4) Have him be seen continuing to go to his therapist - spotty at the start, he needs to still be in therapy
5) Give us an update on his meds - is he still taking anti-psychotic meds?  That would keep him one step away from murdering again.  Somehow they need to show him continuing treatment and titrating him off the meds so we aren't worried that one missed trip to the CVS won't mean dead bodies piling up.  I'm saying that a bit in jest, because I think he's clearly better, but we need at least a throw-away line on that. 
6) Show him raising funds for victims of violent crimes, or working at the Horton center, or some other life-long charity work to show he will actively keep the burden of the lives he's taken (Serena, Wendy, Paige) as part of his daily existence.  

Things they've done that did NOT work IMO but they THINK it did
1) Execute him for a crime he didn't commit
2) Get words of praise from Marlena without some additional work on his part
 

So... IF Ben survives this execution, I want to put an end to my personal 'twinge' regarding him.  And realistically, I'm going to home he does the following:
1) Do some life-long charity work (time, not money) in the name of his victims
2) Show continued therapy and titration off the anti psychotic meds (or at least mention he's been taken off after X amount of months based on doctors order).  

What I don't want:
1) Ben to have a 'dark side' that comes out as serial killer psycho when it suits the story.
2) No attempt to put his remorse into action.  
3) "Poor Ben" statements.  I can handle acceptance of his innocence in Jordan's death, but even Ben agreed, he 'had it coming'.  Just tacitly acknowledge he didn't deserve to die for Jordan's murder.

Anyway... sorry for the rant.  I am NOT anti-Ben.  I think he's here to stay and I'm okay with it.  I just would like a few actions that are redemptive in the name of his victims (Serena, Paige, Wendy).  Saving Ciara for the 23rd time doesn't count, saving Julie, etc... is good but not enough.  

/rantoff

Edited by SueB
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Quote

He didn't even have the decency of telling Ben WHAT he was sorry about.

Exactly and of course the writers do this so the audience doesn't get a full run down of his crimes so the scenes seem more heartfelt. Puke. Certainly JR is a good actor but that sure didn't make me feel anything close to heart warmed during those scenes. I rolled my eyes so hard I was afraid they were going to roll right out of my head.

Quote

I think he's here to stay and I'm okay with it.  I just would like a few actions that are redemptive in the name of his victims (Serena, Paige, Wendy).  Saving Ciara for the 23rd time doesn't count, saving Julie, etc.

I know he's here to stay and sure actually showing him do something redemptive in the name of his victims might help. That's fair. However having seen and read enough things about actual serial killers, I don't think fixing and redemption are really a part of their makeup. So this entire enterprise is just nonsense. Yes I know it's a soap so sure I can yada yada soap life and real life if I chose to but the serial killer thing irks me. Irks I tells ya!

Plus the blatant saving this persons life and that persons life thing the writers insist on doing is annoying. Just give me a break.

I'm not a fan of rapists on soaps either, but at least this show took the time with Jack. And to this day Kayla is never completely at ease with him.

People in Salem should be allowed to be uneasy around Ben and should be allowed to have negative reactions to him. Will should be allowed to be a normal human and not be buddies with the person who killed him! I mean come on!

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With Jack he never was that man ever again he's a completely different person in that the Jack of today wouldn't have raped Kayla or threaten any woman.

 

It also helped that they showed Jack as a screw up that the folks of Salem found a nuisance above all else. WIth Ben he's an exalted hero now who has that psycho side show up when its convenient(like when he threatened Rory, kidnapped Gabi etc)

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7 minutes ago, hypnotoad said:

Exactly and of course the writers do this so the audience doesn't get a full run down of his crimes so the scenes seem more heartfelt. Puke. Certainly JR is a good actor but that sure didn't make me feel anything close to heart warmed during those scenes. I rolled my eyes so hard I was afraid they were going to roll right out of my head.

I know he's here to stay and sure actually showing him do something redemptive in the name of his victims might help. That's fair. However having seen and read enough things about actual serial killers, I don't think fixing and redemption are really a part of their makeup. So this entire enterprise is just nonsense. Yes I know it's a soap so sure I can yada yada soap life and real life if I chose to but the serial killer thing irks me. Irks I tells ya!

Plus the blatant saving this persons life and that persons life thing the writers insist on doing is annoying. Just give me a break.

I'm not a fan of rapists on soaps either, but at least this show took the time with Jack. And to this day Kayla is never completely at ease with him.

People in Salem should be allowed to be uneasy around Ben and should be allowed to have negative reactions to him. Will should be allowed to be a normal human and not be buddies with the person who killed him! I mean come on!

I hope there ARE some.  And not just 'bad guys'.  Rafe, JJ, and Eric should ALWAYS be uncomfortable that he killed their loved one.  They don't have to be actively hating Ben but they should have a low tolerance. 

Will... I get Will (I may be alone in this).  Will has SAMI for a mother.  That's GOT to warp you a bit and make you see life on a different scale.  Plus Ben saved his life and gave him excellent support during his incarceration.  So... after living in a cell with him for a year, I think it's fair to say Will has overcome any physical proximity issue he might have had.  And so long as they occasionally remind us how unusual their relationship is, I'm okay with it.  

And you're totally right about serial killers are not generally redeemable.  I'm reminded of Katie McGrath's comment regarding the show 'Merlin.'  She used to say that whenever things were too far from reality she'd just mutter "talking dragon, talking dragon" (as there was one in the show).  And that would help her live with the disconnect.

So... "talking dragon"="Ben is redeemable".

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11 minutes ago, SueB said:

And you're totally right about serial killers are not generally redeemable.  I'm reminded of Katie McGrath's comment regarding the show 'Merlin.'  She used to say that whenever things were too far from reality she'd just mutter "talking dragon, talking dragon" (as there was one in the show).  And that would help her live with the disconnect.

So... "talking dragon"="Ben is redeemable".

I'm of the opinion that absolutely anybody is redeemable, regardless of what they've done.  But, I'm also of the opinion that sometimes you have caused so much hurt in an area that the best thing you can do is take your redeemed self far away because it's not fair to your former victims.

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13 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I really wanted to full enjoy Sonny and Will's reunion because it was kind of cute how giddy they both were but I think Sonny might have been a little too giddy. I hated how he glossed over some stuff that shouldn't have been. I HATED either of them expressing any concern for Victor's health. I get neither of them are ghouls and Victor is Sonny's family, but they should both be beyond pissed at what he did to both of them and what he did to their daughter.

I think Sonny was far too understanding of Will being willing to stay in prison. It was nice but such a dumb thing to do because again, HELLO, they have a daughter who kind of needed both of her dads. He was also way, way, way too cool with Will just skipping off to go to Ben's execution.

I honestly think both Massey and Smith did the best they possibly could in the circumstances, but, good Lord, the writing for this reunion was uninspired! Just the flattest, most pedestrian dialogue yet.

I might be convinced that Sonny could forgive Victor in time, but it doesn't make any sense for Sonny and Will not to express any anger whatsoever here. The bond Will has supposedly forged with his murderer also makes no sense -- and skipping naked reunion afternoon sexytimes with his beloved to hang out on death row? Not in million years.

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I believe in redemption and I believe in forgiveness but what I don't believe in is having the victims shamed or shushed or bullied into silence, something I think Ciara in particular is guilty of.  People whose lives have been permanently altered by another's actions have the right to their feelings.  They also have the right to not forgive, or trust the perpetrator ever again.  That's why victims and family members of victims have the right to speak out at parole hearings.  And Ben being a serial killer, well, that's a pretty high bar to get past.  

I think his redemption has been clumsy and ham-fisted and Ciara's annoyance at people who don't buy into that narrative has, for me, hurt both characters a lot.

And again, serial killer redemption??  We all know the Horton Christmas ornament is coming.....

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2 minutes ago, boes said:

I think his redemption has been clumsy and ham-fisted and Ciara's annoyance at people who don't buy into that narrative has, for me, hurt both characters a lot.

Perfectly observed.

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1 hour ago, hypnotoad said:

I'm not a fan of rapists on soaps either, but at least this show took the time with Jack. And to this day Kayla is never completely at ease with him.

I agree.  Jack earned his redemption over time.  He wasn't immediately forgiven by all and sundry.  I also like that he went on to a love story with Jennifer instead of Kayla falling in love with her rapist a la Luke and Laura or EJ and Sami.  Both of those couples ick me out.

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@boes you’re right, IRL Ben should have been out if the area out of respect for his victims.  
And Ciara should so explicit sensitivity around those who directly lost a loved one.  
 

But I am also ready for them to stop the hero thing for Ben to ‘prove’ himself. On his meds, and no longer insane, Ben has done the right thing (except when Ciara was out of town — which, let’s not do that psycho-threat thing again).    I want him to have a completely different story.  Have his ‘redemption’ be part of his character but not the big story.   

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believe in redemption and I believe in forgiveness but what I don't believe in is having the victims shamed or shushed or bullied into silence, something I think Ciara in particular is guilty of. 

I believe in redemption and forgiveness too. Absolutely. But a serial killer is a different animal than someone who just murdered someone. Serial killer indicates someone with a much bigger problem and sorry a little therapy, some meds and hand waving 'mental issues' doesn't really fly.

That for me is the stumbling block and it's one I really cannot completely get past. No matter how many fake hero moments they give Ben.

Ron is a moron. This his second time making a serial killer some kind of romantic lead type character. And I don't think either has been particularly successful.

Quote

I think his redemption has been clumsy and ham-fisted and Ciara's annoyance at people who don't buy into that narrative has, for me, hurt both characters a lot.

Absolutely agree. 'You can't see how wonderful my serial killer boyfriend is? Pffft you suck!'

Anyway, I have really enjoyed the Maggie stuff. Suzanne Rogers has been terrific. I liked Sonny and Will's reunion but I wanted a bit more.

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3 hours ago, boes said:

I believe in redemption and I believe in forgiveness but what I don't believe in is having the victims shamed or shushed or bullied into silence, something I think Ciara in particular is guilty of.  People whose lives have been permanently altered by another's actions have the right to their feelings.  They also have the right to not forgive, or trust the perpetrator ever again.  That's why victims and family members of victims have the right to speak out at parole hearings.  And Ben being a serial killer, well, that's a pretty high bar to get past.  

I think his redemption has been clumsy and ham-fisted and Ciara's annoyance at people who don't buy into that narrative has, for me, hurt both characters a lot.

And again, serial killer redemption??  We all know the Horton Christmas ornament is coming.....

Perfectly said and thank you for posting that...

Edited by Pearson80
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I sure hope Gabi is able to get out of the god awful wedding dress. She’s been in it for three weeks. It must stink by now, right? Also, does Steven-O have a transporter to get him from one place to another so fast? It’s bad enough that this storyline is so dumb but this magic carpet is ridiculous.

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On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 12:19 PM, hypnotoad said:

… but at least this show took the time with Jack. And to this day Kayla is never completely at ease with him.

And no one expected her to be so, as far as I can remember; I don't recall Jennifer (or anyone else, for that matter) telling Kayla she just needed to "get over it" already.

That being said, I thought Rob Wilson's jailhouse scene with Marlena was the most convincing he has been with BOllie's expressions of remorse. 

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On 3/1/2020 at 10:01 AM, DaphneCat said:

I agree that Clyde could truly become an evil force.  We were always supposed to believe that underneath Stefano's and Victor's nasty exteriors was just a soft gushy center.  They loved their families.  With Clyde, you can believe that while he feels momentary twinges of guilt or regret, they are not strong enough to make him really want to be a better person.  He could just be evil.

Why does every villain have to have a soft spot? they could be interesting with great writing and acting. They could be unapologetically evil and let's face it evil people never see themselves as evil. 

I thought Clyde was fascinating when he first came on the show by playing up the preconceived notions that southerners are dumb and unsophisticated, while besting Victor and EJ, Stefano's heir.  I thought his best scenes were with Marlena when he was in therapy. Their cat and mouse interactions seemed to be leading to something good given Marlena's track record of attracting the ire of psychopaths. I also loved his interactions with Aiden. Making him a child molester just ruined his possibilities as a great villain. 

 

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I was hoping Evan would shoot Ciara so her and Benny boy could die together.

The evidence doesn't prove that Christian killed Jordan, just that at some point he was in contact with her. If he hadn't confessed, this would be the serial killers word against his. Unless he is also a serial killer. I feel they are already trying to make him a sympathetic criminal. His crimes as Christian better be big for murder and kidnapping to be his only way to have his son. I really don't want to see Rafe lose yet another kid.

Victor needs to hire better security. It is getting ridiculous the amount of things people get away with in the very room.

I don't like that Hattie is once again being used to trick Stefano. Marlena is not needed in Bens waiting room. Rafe could have contacted Abe.

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I'm doing a lot of eye-rolling during today's show....the whole situation at the 'execution"...Ciara bursting in, etc....Stevano's obsession with Marlena is just weird & unbelievable...

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30 minutes ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I'm doing a lot of eye-rolling during today's show....the whole situation at the 'execution"...Ciara bursting in, etc....Stevano's obsession with Marlena is just weird & unbelievable...

Bad acting all the way around.

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scarynikki12

Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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