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Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

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11 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Does Ava do anything besides cook? 

This kind of annoyed me today, but then I thought about it, and it's the show's own stupid fault since the only set for Rafe's house is the kitchen. There are other things to do in the kitchen besides eat or cook, but the show doesn't seem to want to have them do realistic things like cleaning or just sitting there looking at their laptop at the table. They also seem to want to lean into some stereotypical 'Ava's Italian so she must cook a lot' thing.

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1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

This kind of annoyed me today, but then I thought about it, and it's the show's own stupid fault since the only set for Rafe's house is the kitchen. There are other things to do in the kitchen besides eat or cook, but the show doesn't seem to want to have them do realistic things like cleaning or just sitting there looking at their laptop at the table. They also seem to want to lean into some stereotypical 'Ava's Italian so she must cook a lot' thing.

There's not a whole lot one can do in that 10 square foot kitchen besides cooking or putting groceries away. Maybe next time she can wash the fruit.

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6 hours ago, bannana said:

I am just happy I never have to see Ciara again.

I like your optimism! I expect VK will be back within the year, unfortunately.

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8 hours ago, bannana said:

I am just happy I never have to see Ciara again.

We can hope.  I don't think I've seen anyone leave the hospital wearing a spandex minidress either... that was a tacky touch.  (In my sabbatical from watching the show, I also seem to have forgotten how much I dislike some of their wardrobes.  I remember now.)  

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2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:
8 hours ago, bannana said:

am just happy I never have to see Ciara again.

I like your optimism! I expect VK will be back within the year, unfortunately.

I think we will see her back even during the rest of the shows that have been shot through August. 

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12 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Theo's the only one really acting sane here

On the contrary, he is written as acting at least as dumb as everyone else, and then some. He knows the facts Ciara has forgotten and he must expect there is a good chance she will regain her memory. So he is willing to bet on a flimsy common future based on a lie.

And in truth, Ben seemed to be the one thinking and acting the most sane today. Of course that may last only until he gets another fever dream about his wife, or unless he once again takes the bad advice from marriage counselor extraordinaire Jake.

So Chloe can get an appointment with a specialist at the drop of a hat, the "best one in the field" according to her? She has some remarkable pull, even for a part-time opera singer (in fact, she is more of a dilettante than a professional). She can even get him on the phone and talk directly without any wait time to try and reschedule.

Lucas is such a putz.

Shouldn't a red flag have been raised in Trask's mind when Jan mentioned the recording was "some sort of a session". Unless medical privilege does not apply in Salem this week. Of course, an aggressive DA might take a chance on milking that piece of evidence for all it's worth until a judge declares it inadmissible.

 

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53 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

So he is willing to bet on a flimsy common future based on a lie.

I haven't seen today yet.  What's the lie?

Edited by Irlandesa
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Sorry even people w memory loss or brain damage are allowed to have consent. Ciara doesn’t seem to be mentally incompetent or finished other than her feelings for Ben and irl feelings can change, it doesn’t matter they were married or she said she loved him once.

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Does anyone in real life knock on the door and yell "Is anybody home?" on the first knock?

Why would Belle immediately jump to Sami being the person framing her instead of Jan? And doesn't she have millions of dollars of DiMera money that Sami just gave her out of the blue?

Why is Jan just hanging around the cop shop with nobody commenting on it?

Does Trask think she can use a recording of a psychiatrist's sessions in court?

Rafe was able to get a copy of Marlena's session recordings without having her in the office at the time? Did he listen to every other recording in her office till he found the one he wanted?

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Sorry even people w memory loss or brain damage are allowed to have consent.

Quite, and it was surprising (even refreshing) that Ben seemed to accept her choice and would not stand in her way (for now anyway). Theo however seems to be exploiting her diminished capacity to encourage her to embark on a course that can only be doomed to fail.

14 minutes ago, Petunia13 said:

Ciara doesn’t seem to be mentally incompetent

She has amnesia covering a long period of her life. I would describe someone in that situation as having diminished capacity and not making decisions based on a full set of facts. When her memory comes back (it is a soap, so we know it must at one point) and her feelings are restored, how will she feels about the choices she made? I can already picture her screeching at Theo for having dragged her out of her husband's embrace and at Ben for not having stopped it and perhaps having moved on.

16 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Rafe was able to get a copy of Marlena's session recordings without having her in the office at the time? Did he listen to every other recording in her office till he found the one he wanted?

You forget he is the detectivest detective who ever detectived, so he has the ability to home in quickly on what he is looking for.  😉

17 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Why is Jan just hanging around the cop shop with nobody commenting on it?

Does Trask think she can use a recording of a psychiatrist's sessions in court?

Much like the Salem hospital, the police station seems to have an open door policy so lax that anyone can walk in and just hang around where other people insist on having confidential confrontations within earshot of every passer-by (very unprofessional on the part of Trask).

As for the recording, she could use it as a pressure tactic on Belle until, as I posted previously, a judge rules it inadmissible. The content could even be leaked to poison the mind of prospective jurors.

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Only on this show would we be meant to take issue with Trask for daring to think the suspect's husband shouldn't be working the case lol.

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4 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Only on this show would we be meant to take issue with Trask for daring to think the suspect's husband shouldn't be working the case lol.

What, like, is that a conflict of interest? 

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19 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

She has amnesia covering a long period of her life. I would describe someone in that situation as having diminished capacity and not making decisions based on a full set of facts.

Then John has been diminished most of his life. The only memories that he has (except for a limited few from his childhood) was all Roman's memories implanted by Stefano. That didn't stop noted pyschiatrist Marlena Evans from marrying John a millions after it was discovered that he was not John and he couldn't remember his life no matter how many sessions they had together.

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2 minutes ago, nilyank said:

I would describe someone in that situation as having diminished capacity and not making decisions based on a full set of facts.

She does have all the facts. 

I don't see this as an instance of Ron's inability to understand what consent is at all. Now, sure, it's probably not super wise for Theo to be doing this because there's the possibility that Ciara will remember and he'll lose her, but he isn't doing anything morally wrong imo.

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3 hours ago, wurdalak said:

And in truth, Ben seemed to be the one thinking and acting the most sane today. Of course that may last only until he gets another fever dream about his wife, or unless he once again takes the bad advice from marriage counselor extraordinaire Jake.

Or has an "oopsie daisy" and strangles a college girl.

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4 hours ago, wurdalak said:

On the contrary, he is written as acting at least as dumb as everyone else, and then some. He knows the facts Ciara has forgotten and he must expect there is a good chance she will regain her memory. So he is willing to bet on a flimsy common future based on a lie.

And in truth, Ben seemed to be the one thinking and acting the most sane today. Of course that may last only until he gets another fever dream about his wife, or unless he once again takes the bad advice from marriage counselor extraordinaire Jake.

So Chloe can get an appointment with a specialist at the drop of a hat, the "best one in the field" according to her? She has some remarkable pull, even for a part-time opera singer (in fact, she is more of a dilettante than a professional). She can even get him on the phone and talk directly without any wait time to try and reschedule.

Lucas is such a putz.

Shouldn't a red flag have been raised in Trask's mind when Jan mentioned the recording was "some sort of a session". Unless medical privilege does not apply in Salem this week. Of course, an aggressive DA might take a chance on milking that piece of evidence for all it's worth until a judge declares it inadmissible.

 

Chloe's father is a well respected doctor so I'm guessing through him is how she got this doctor(one of the few things that makes sense on this show)

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7 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

We can hope.  I don't think I've seen anyone leave the hospital wearing a spandex minidress either... that was a tacky touch.  (In my sabbatical from watching the show, I also seem to have forgotten how much I dislike some of their wardrobes.  I remember now.)  

I was thinking the same thing! did she have her hair and make up done in her room  & have someone bring over one of her sluttiest  outfits to leave the hospital?!

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1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

She does have all the facts. 

She has indirect knowledge of them. But not direct experience of them. Hence she is acting on an incomplete picture, which Theo is written as taking advantage of.

1 hour ago, Damian said:

Or has an "oopsie daisy" and strangles a college girl.

But you forget: he is written as managing his condition with meds and counselling (the show can however choose to write him as skipping all of this because of... whatever reason is expedient).

Anyway, I do not see how such an action would propel him back towards amnesiac Ciara.

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1 hour ago, CanaryFan98 said:

Chloe's father is a well respected doctor so I'm guessing through him is how she got this doctor(one of the few things that makes sense on this show)

Chloe is also a cancer survivor so she and her parents most likely are up to date on those kind of resources and contacts.

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4 hours ago, wurdalak said:

Theo however seems to be exploiting her diminished capacity to encourage her to embark on a course that can only be doomed to fail.

She has all the facts.  She doesn't have the emotions but she has the facts.  Life experiences bring us to different places.  Our feelings change.  We only know she and Theo are doomed to fail because this is a soap and, until writing and opinion shifts, CIN is end game.  But in real life or a well written soap? Things aren't so easy or clean cut.  She and Theo aren't leaping into a relationship.  They're taking things slowly.  If they continue to build a relationship, having her memories come back aren't going to immediately erase where she's going to develop between now and where she'll be when she inevitably comes back.

Theo is giving her that choice without manipulating her.  Ben is only giving up after people have told him that his extraordinary methods were wrong. 

While Theo deep down would rather not have her get her memories back, he's not the one making that choice for her. 

And Ben has already stated that having her alive but nor remembering him is worse than having her dead so even in "bad thoughts Ave." he's still the worst.

Edited by Irlandesa
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2 hours ago, wurdalak said:

can already picture her screeching at Theo for having dragged her out of her husband's embrace

This is exactly what is going to happen and why I think Theo is being stupid.  Although, was he even around when Ciara was all about defending Ben Westin to everyone? My memory is crap. If he wasn’t, I can cut him some slack. 

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3 minutes ago, DanaMB said:

I think Theo is being stupid.  Although, was he even around when Ciara was all about defending Ben Westin to everyone?

In some sense, Theo is a bit as diminished as Ciara in this situation. He has the same indirect experience of the facts as she does since he was in South Africa when most if not all of the Ciara-Ben romance occurred, including the wedding. Which could excuse in part the fact he is making such a stupid choice. Or at least explain somehow why he is willing to take such a risk and take advantage Ciara's present psychological circumstances.

He's still exploitative of Ciara's condition, whereas Ben is behaving in the destructive obsessive manner lovelorn males are usually portrayed on this show.

11 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

She has all the facts.  She doesn't have the emotions but she has the facts.

Feelings are important, even crucial, in how humans interpret facts. Especially when, like Ciara, you know about things that happened to you (in this case a whole chunk of your life), but you do not have the emotional memories that are usually associated with the direct experience of those events. So her interpretation of facts that have been related to her by family and acquaintances is necessarily incomplete and faulty. Her current life choices are therefore rather less than well-informed.

That is assuming a fictional character reacts the way a real person would.

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6 hours ago, wurdalak said:

On the contrary, he is written as acting at least as dumb as everyone else, and then some. He knows the facts Ciara has forgotten and he must expect there is a good chance she will regain her memory. So he is willing to bet on a flimsy common future based on a lie.

And in truth, Ben seemed to be the one thinking and acting the most sane today. Of course that may last only until he gets another fever dream about his wife, or unless he once again takes the bad advice from marriage counselor extraordinaire Jake.

I said sane, not necessarily smart. And what lie? Theo hasn't lied to her. But, as I already said, I think it is entirely sane to not want a loved one with a serial killer. "Former" or not. If Theo is willing to risk heartbreak than that's up to him. Ben was only acting sane because Claire talked sense into him, and probably because he knew he could be arrested if he tried to kidnap Ciara in the middle of a hospital.

3 hours ago, wurdalak said:

Quite, and it was surprising (even refreshing) that Ben seemed to accept her choice and would not stand in her way (for now anyway). Theo however seems to be exploiting her diminished capacity to encourage her to embark on a course that can only be doomed to fail.

Theo's not bonking Ciara head and kidnapping her. Going to Africa was her idea. Her having memory loss doesn't mean she's not allowed to make her own decisions.

3 hours ago, wurdalak said:

She has amnesia covering a long period of her life. I would describe someone in that situation as having diminished capacity and not making decisions based on a full set of facts. When her memory comes back (it is a soap, so we know it must at one point) and her feelings are restored, how will she feels about the choices she made? I can already picture her screeching at Theo for having dragged her out of her husband's embrace and at Ben for not having stopped it and perhaps having moved on.

That's not diminished capacity. She doesn't have a few years of memories. Every other part of her life she does remember. Her brain hasn't been impaired in any way that she can't make legal decisions for herself. Are you suggesting someone who has memory loss is no longer able to think for themselves and decide what they want?

It's Ciara. Of course, she'll screech at anyone within spitting distance when she regains her memory. Screeching, self-righteous harpy is her default setting.

12 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

Feelings are important, even crucial, in how humans interpret facts. Especially when, like Ciara, you know about things that happened to you (in this case a whole chunk of your life), but you do not have the emotional memories that are usually associated with the direct experience of those events. So her interpretation of facts that have been related to her by family and acquaintances is necessarily incomplete and faulty. Her current life choices are therefore rather less than well-informed.

Feelings matter, but it doesn't make someone with memory loss incapable of moving on with their life because those feelings may never return. They don't have to stay in stasis to appease someone else. If they don't want to get those memories back, that's their choice.

Ciara has the facts. That's the most important thing. She knows she loved Ben enough to marry him and she doesn't care. As someone else brought up, does that mean that John has been taken advantage of all of his life by Marlena and others?

35 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

She has all the facts.  She doesn't have the emotions but she has the facts.  Life experiences bring us to different places.  Our feelings change.  We only know she and Theo are doomed to fail because this is a soap and, until writing and opinion shifts, CIN is end game.  But in real life or a well written soap? Things aren't so easy or clean cut.  She and Theo aren't leaping into a relationship.  They're taking things slowly.  If they continue to build a relationship, having her memories come back aren't going to immediately erase where she's going to develop between now and where she'll be when she inevitably comes back.

Theo is giving her that choice without manipulating her.  Ben is only giving up after people have told him that her extraordinary methods were wrong. 

While Theo deep down would rather not have her get her memories back, he's not the one making that choice for her. 

Exactly.

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Lucas has no home, why is he living in EJs family house while complaining to Sami about EJ? Then Sami waltzes into Abby's home? 

Theo should be punched for opening his mouth when Ben is trying to speak to his wife. Theo has no right. Ciaria didn't look like she feared for her life in that scene.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Are you suggesting someone who has memory loss is no longer able to think for themselves and decide what they want?

If that is what I had meant to say, I would have said it. This interpretation is entirely yours.

Having diminished capacity (and I still maintain that is an apt decription for her condition as portrayed on the show) does not deprive her of the ability to make choices. But these choices are by necessity based on an incomplete and less clear knowledge of her own history, which means their overall rationality and validity are also diminished.

And it means their decision to move to Africa is based on a lie and self-delusion, although not necessarily for identical motives.

26 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

If they don't want to get those memories back, that's their choice.

That is assuming amnesiacs have control over what they get to remember and whether their memory does or does not come back. Her present choice is disregarding the reality of what her life was during the period she has forgotten, because she has no direct experience of them, only what has been related to her by others.

14 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Theo should be punched for opening his mouth when Ben is trying to speak to his wife. Theo has no right.

He is behaving like most male characters are portrayed on this show, i.e. as retrograde Neanderthals when it comes to "protecting" their feeble wimmins.

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6 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Lucas has no home, why is he living in EJs family house while complaining to Sami about EJ? Then Sami waltzes into Abby's home? 

Theo should be punched for opening his mouth when Ben is trying to speak to his wife. Theo has no right. Ciaria didn't look like she feared for her life in that scene.

 

 

EJ doesn't own the house. Gabi does. And given that Lucas is her daughter's grandfather, I don't think she has a problem with him living there. I like Abby, but again, she isn't the DiMera mansion's owner so, yeah, Sami can go there without Abby's permission.

Yes, how dare someone else speak up for someone else's property, I mean, wife. Ciara didn't fear for her life then, but she's fleeing her own hometown because she's worried Ben might lunge at her with another syringe.

5 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

If that is what I had meant to say, I would have said it. This interpretation is entirely yours.

Having diminished capacity (and I still maintain that is an apt decription for her condition as portrayed on the show) does not deprive her of the ability to make choices. But these choices are by necessity based on an incomplete and less clear knowledge of her own history, which means their overall rationality and validity are also diminished.

And this is your interpretation. Ciara not remembering a couple of years of her life doesn't make her rationale diminished or that it lacks validity. Ciara has the requisite information to make informed decisions.

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3 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Ciara has the requisite information to make informed decisions.

She has the information but not the ability to process it correctly or efficiently enough.

And yes, it is indeed MY interpretation; it is the basic principle of boards such as this one and of everything posted on them.

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43 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

She has the information but not the ability to process it correctly or efficiently enough.

She can process it correctly. She doesn't have to remember it, or have the feelings attached, to be able to process the information. Is she supposed to sit and wait for her memories to come back before her decisions be considered valid? She knows the major events that happened in the missing 2 or 3 years of her life and she's made the valid choice to not pursue those memories further for now. If they come back, she's decided to deal with it, but for now she wants to move on. Not wanting to be with a serial killer is the sanest, most rational decision she's made in years.

Quote

And it means their decision to move to Africa is based on a lie and self-delusion, although not necessarily for identical motives.

Your definition of lie and mine don't match up. Theo is not lying to her.

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That is assuming amnesiacs have control over what they get to remember and whether their memory does or does not come back. Her present choice is disregarding the reality of what her life was during the period she has forgotten, because she has no direct experience of them, only what has been related to her by others.

Right now Ciara has the control by deciding not to pursue hypnosis, which she has decided not to. Her memories might come back to her, and they may not (knowing this show they probably will) but if she doesn't want to pursue those memories that's up to her since no one should force her into that, if it's not what she wants (meaning no one should sneak into her room and try to drug her against her will and then lunge at her with a syringe.)

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4 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

If they come back, she's decided to deal with it, but for now she wants to move on. Not wanting to be with a serial killer is the sanest, most rational decision she's made in years.

I agree. And if not having memories makes Ciara in capable of being in love, couldn't the same be applied to Ben?  The show doesn't even argue Ben is "cured" of his mental illness but rather he has to manage it.  And John shouldn't be with anyone. 

Ciara has to manage her memory loss because there's no guarantee it'd be back.  She has to manage her life with that possibility. 

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1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Theo's not bonking Ciara head and kidnapping her. Going to Africa was her idea. Her having memory loss doesn't mean she's not allowed to make her own decisions.

Stefan didn't bonk Abigail over the head and force her to have sex with him.  It's still not consent.

 

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48 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Theo is not lying to her.

They are each lying to themselves. Hence my use of the word "self-delusion".

As for the rest, our views and interpretations of this sub-plot and its implications do not "match up" indeed on any aspect, and it looks as if it will remain so.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Stefan didn't bonk Abigail over the head and force her to have sex with him.  It's still not consent.

 

Comparing Stefan raping Abigail to Theo and Ciara going off to Africa is quite the leap IMO. First of all, Theo and Ciara aren't going to Africa to start on some instant sexual affair. They talked about going there as friends and slowly seeing what relationship might develop. If they do end up having sex, it will be consensual because Ciara is not of diminished capacity and is capable of making her own decisions. Or is she supposed to be relegated to a home and have others make decisions for her because she can't remember two years from her life?

Abigail's situation was completely different. She had a serious mental illness where her brain was out to lunch and she turned into a different person. Abigail wasn't able to consent to sex because she wasn't in control of her own mind at the time. 

I mean, if having memory loss (which you are aware of) means you can't consent to sex will someone please stick up for poor John who's been raped by Marlena for decades.

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6 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

They are each lying to themselves. Hence my use of the word "self-delusion".

You specifically used the word lie. You said the move to Africa was based on a lie AND self-delusion. Ciara and Theo are not lying to themselves or to each other. Being deluded is not the same as lying. Theo is well aware of the situation. He talked about it with Ciara and with his family. He knows she can get her memory back. Ciara knows she has memory loss. She knows it could come back. They've been pretty open and honest with each other.

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Bye, Ciara. Have fun in Johannesburg. Theo is hoping that you never get your memories back. But hey, she can attract a different dude in South Africa and you are nowhere ahead, Theo. Realistically, how can she afford to go there? Who is footing the bill? I can see her going to Chicago or somewhere closer to home and her family. Such a dumb decision.

Nice to see you move on, Rafe. And of course, Nicole is jealous.

Why is Jan Spears hanging around the police station? Shouldn't Rafe have gotten a search warrant for Marlena's office and then retrieved the tape recording? Why go to her home after the place has been searched? Shouldn't Trask be concerned that a woman with severe mental health issues is pushing for that recording? How does she just overhear something? Given her obsession with Shawn Brady, you'd think they would suspect Jan's sudden interest.

Chloe, you just don't hand someone something to drink. Ask Lucas if he wants the juice. Nice of you to find some specialist, but he hasn't asked you to do anything. Offer and see if he will accept.

Belle, Sami is not the person you should blame. Keep thinking.

Ben, you should keep the washer ring.

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Boy, the plot holes regarding Charlie's murder just keep getting bigger and bigger don't they?  First hole -  Jan would have been on machines if she was in a coma.  There is NO WAY she could have come out of it, committed murder, come back and pretend to still be in the coma for a few more days.  You can't fake being in a coma - but apparently in Salem you can?

Second hole - Jan told Trask that the recording was during "some kind of session."  No judge in hell would EVER issue a search warrant for a psychiatrist's recordings/files because they suspected the patient had witnessed something connected to a crime.  There is this little thing called doctor/patient privilege - no judge can violate it simply to get evidence to charge someone else.

Did the writers have someone else in mind as the murderer and then changed the plot at the last minute, or did they just keep writing crap until they could get the parts to make the spinning wheel thing they used to decide Jan did it?

And how did Rafe execute the search warrant without notifying Marlena?  Apparently, in Salem, the police can just go through your effects without even bothering to show you the search warrant.

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2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

EJ doesn't own the house. Gabi does. And given that Lucas is her daughter's grandfather, I don't think she has a problem with him living there. I like Abby, but again, she isn't the DiMera mansion's owner so, yeah, Sami can go there without Abby's permission.

It's the Stefano Dimera mansion, it is EJ's house. Just like it's Chad's and Tony's when he shows up in town.  Their father's portrait is on the wall, Lucas can't afford an apartment? Even Ben can afford an apartment. 

He runs around attacking the Dimera's and cheating with EJ's wife but he has no problem living in their house?  

1 hour ago, RedElf said:

Stefan didn't bonk Abigail over the head and force her to have sex with him.  It's still not consent.

 

Which is why everyone in town except Theo who has his own selfish motives tried to stop Ciara from leaving town and tried to explain Ben. Everyone knows how Ciara would react if she was in her right mind and knowing it'll end up with being disgusted/horrified with herself is what makes this not ok with Theo, but icky. 

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4 minutes ago, Artsda said:

It's the Stefano Dimera mansion, it is EJ's house.

Nope.  It's Gabi's house.  She could have anyone she wants thrown out for trespassing on her property.  EJ could try to steal it from her but it's still Gabi's house.  That doesn't mean the show won't write someone as living there due to the limited amount of sets.  .  

1 hour ago, DaphneCat said:

There is NO WAY she could have come out of it, committed murder, come back and pretend to still be in the coma for a few more days. 

It wasn't even days, though.  Charlie had been dead for weeks before she "woke up" from her coma.  It's all so stupid that I almost don't even care if Charlie never comes back from the dead.  

 

Today was the Sami that I know and love.  Taking down Belle with her hands tied behind her back.  Bullying Lucas into keeping up the lie about dying.  It's only taken about two months for me to finally enjoy her return.  

Ava and Nicole could be fun sparring partners, and I even like the idea of them both needing an outlet for the darker aspects of their psyche, but it pains me that this is happening over Rafe.  I mean, I don't hate Rafe but he's such a dud as a romantic partner.  

While I'm still going to lean towards Theo having every right to take Ciara wherever the hell she wants to go, it was fun to read the lively discussion here.  It's nice to see you all get fired up about something, regardless if it's over one of my least favorite storylines of the moment.  

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42 minutes ago, Artsda said:

It's the Stefano Dimera mansion, it is EJ's house. Just like it's Chad's and Tony's when he shows up in town.  Their father's portrait is on the wall, Lucas can't afford an apartment? Even Ben can afford an apartment. 

He runs around attacking the Dimera's and cheating with EJ's wife but he has no problem living in their house?  

I've almost given up complaining about the absurdity of where people live on this show because I know it has to do with the show's limited budget. It drove me mad that Will and Sonny continued to live at Victor's after he sent Will to prison. Lucas should be able to afford his own place. Sami, who is supposed to be wealthy, should be afford to not have to live with her parents when she comes to town and yet...

As far as who owns the DiMera mansion - currently that's Gabby. I'm not exactly sure how that worked out. When I started watching the show again, Chad and Abigail lived there because Chad was CEO of DiMera. Then Stefan came along and when they made him CEO he got the house. I assumed that meant whoever was CEO of DiMera retained ownership of the mansion, so when Gabby was ousted, I thought Chad owned it again. But it was stated - including recently when Gabby moved back in - that Stefan gave Gabby the house in his will, so it's hers for right now. So if she wants her daughter's grandparents to live there or visit, it's up to her.

As for Lucas, yeah he hates EJ (with good reason) but EJ doesn't live there currently and Lucas's mother does so it at least makes slightly more sense he's there than some of the other living arrangements.

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I have to give Ron his props. The John/Marlena/Belle scenes were perfect old school soap. The moment they are celebrating no one knowing the truth and their ability to search for the framer and real killer in private without any more damning evidence coming to light, Rafe informs them that he has the tape recorder. I loved the reaction shots. Marlena, even after all this time, still knows how to carry and steal a scene.

I agree with everyone regarding Ciara's attire. What annoys me more is that it was just inappropriate for the somber, sad tone that the scene was going for. Something more conservative and natural really could have heightened the emotions in the scene. That being said, while I have a lot of issues with how VK plays Ciara at times, I thought she played yesterday's scenes perfectly. There was just enough sadness, regret, with a pinch of what if that left the door open for Cin in the future. Also, it's so obvious that Theo is signing himself up for a world of disappointment and pain. The last scene with Cin at the elevator reminded me of the 50 Shades of Grey film. That was my favorite moment in that film, and Cin did almost as good a job.

Sami/Lucas/Chloe/Jan. There's just something about the 90s and original Last Blast Crew that can really make this show. Sami/Lucas reminded me of their teenaged selves, Chloe fit in perfectly with them, and Jan was a master manipulator with Trask. The people who did the casting for the show at that time truly knew how to cast Soap stars with chemistry, magnetism, and charisma. I root for all of them even when I know I shouldn't. Nicole needs to be added to this bubble immediately because she is being wasted with Ava/Rafe.

It's funny how the Charlie murder case finally got interesting once all the original players were removed from the story and now it's basically a Evans/Black and Jan storyline. I hope someone somewhere is taking notes as to which cast members elevate material and which cast members do not.

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10 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Who is footing the bill [for Ciara to go to SA]?

Ciara's entire family is wealthy so her being able to just go to SA is one of the more realistic things the story has going for it lol.

10 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

I think Jan just to cover bases should kill Rafe

When they showed Jan killing Charlie it was giving me serial killer vibes so I'm hoping they just go all out and have Jan kill a few more people (specifically Ben lol).

10 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Did the writers have someone else in mind as the murderer and then changed the plot at the last minute, or did they just keep writing crap until they could get the parts to make the spinning wheel thing they used to decide Jan did it?

It could easily be either of these things. I think all we know for sure is the writers 100% had no idea who Charlie's killer was going to be when they initially wrote Charlie being killed lol.

8 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Today was the Sami that I know and love.  Taking down Belle with her hands tied behind her back.  Bullying Lucas into keeping up the lie about dying.  It's only taken about two months for me to finally enjoy her return.

YES! I loved it all so much!

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I'm enjoying the crap out of most of today's show, even Kristen's ridiculous ass.  I especially liked the Gabi/Abigail scenes and how the actresses played them--they tell each other the ugly truth about their lives and underneath the layers of anger, there's still a tinge of their old friendship.  They know each other too well to be anything less then honest.

I also liked the Gwen/Jack scenes and Gwen's resolve to protect her child from feeling like he/she was unwanted was wonderfully heart-breaking.

Edited by kitmerlot1213
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18 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

You specifically used the word lie. You said the move to Africa was based on a lie AND self-delusion.

So I did, deliberately. I used two related notions so that they would play with each other and amplify each other. A common rhetorical device, I thought.

I still consider Theo and Ciara to be lying to themselves (and ultimately to each other) by persuading themselves that their "arrangement" is a credible foundation for building a solid and lasting relationship. That being said, we know that it is simply a scriptwriting expedient for creating drama.

16 hours ago, Artsda said:

Which is why everyone in town except Theo who has his own selfish motives tried to stop Ciara from leaving town and tried to explain Ben. Everyone knows how Ciara would react if she was in her right mind and knowing it'll end up with being disgusted/horrified with herself is what makes this not ok with Theo, but icky. 

Exactly. Selfish and not very bright considering the predictable outcome. The writers appear to have morphed Theo's autism into inspissated stupidity. It does not help that the portrayal is so bland.

17 hours ago, DaphneCat said:

Jan told Trask that the recording was during "some kind of session."  No judge in hell would EVER issue a search warrant for a psychiatrist's recordings/files because they suspected the patient had witnessed something connected to a crime.

As I posted yesterday, that should have raised a red flag in her mind. Assuming the writers understand the concept of medical privilege. But an aggressive prosecutor might still go ahead with it to influence public opinion and prospective jurors with leaks about the recording or to pressure Belle. Trask might even make the argument that privilege does not apply in this case because this was not a true doctor/patient relationship. Considering Belle is represented by Justin, the DA might well win that discussion, especially in Salem with the consistently flexible legal standards applied by its judges.

A few weeks ago, Gabi wore samples from the "too vulgar for cheap whores" line of GabiChic apparel, with at least one boob constantly threatening to pop out. Today she was wearing a piece from the "two size too small is still much too large" line.

I still wonder how anyone can surrender so easily to Sami's weak bullying and clumsy improvisation of an explanation. I suppose it helps that Lucas has no spine and Chloe is in full Florence Nightingale mode, which blinds her to anything else.

 

Edited by wurdalak
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19 hours ago, wurdalak said:

A few weeks ago, Gabi wore samples from the "too vulgar for cheap whores" line of GabiChic apparel, with at least one boob constantly threatening to pop out. Today she was wearing a piece from the "two size too smal is still much too large" line.

These are the only two lines that GabiChic has, I think!  Maybe a third is "streetwalker in the shadiest part of town" when they want a more relaxed and casual look.  

Edited by FnkyChkn34 · Reason: fixed typo
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The mask stupidity notwithstanding, this Kate/Kristen storyline works for the same reasons the Sarah/Kristen doesn't. Kate totally could hold up a middle finger, pack her things, and leave forever with no one questioning it. Sarah could not.

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Have they ever explained how Kristen always the correct life mask ready when she needs to impersonate someone? Does she keep a complete stock of all of Salem's prominent faces, just in case? And who makes them; does she have a handy kit always at the ready? If so, it is extremely fast and efficient.

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43 minutes ago, wurdalak said:

Have they ever explained how Kristen always the correct life mask ready when she needs to impersonate someone? Does she keep a complete stock of all of Salem's prominent faces, just in case? And who makes them; does she have a handy kit always at the ready? If so, it is extremely fast and efficient.

She told Sarah she learned the skill from Dr. Rolf.  And yes, apparently they're pretty much the equivalent of baking cookies - pretty soon Holly will come home with a Girl Scout badge for mask making. 

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1 hour ago, wurdalak said:

Have they ever explained how Kristen always the correct life mask ready when she needs to impersonate someone? Does she keep a complete stock of all of Salem's prominent faces, just in case? 

Yes like Arya and the hall of faces on Game of Thrones or Khloe Kardashian.

https://youtu.be/_zQ3K-ylk-4

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Why is Jake befuddled that Abby has more than one grandmother?

Speaking of Jake, has anyone ever mentioned that John is Jake's cousin by adoption?

What did Tripp say instead of acetaminophen?

That was funny that Kristen called Kate's outfit hideous, considering Lauren picks her clothes out herself.

I can't wait till Julie finds out she'll be living under the same roof as Gwen.

 

Edited by RedElf
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scarynikki12

Spoilers are not allowed in this thread. Period. Any posts that include spoilers (and casting information qualifies) will be removed. There are several other threads that allow spoilers so take that discussion to one of them.

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