S06.E21: Let It Bleed

[Guest]

A demon kidnaps Ben and Lisa to get to Dean. Sam and Dean are forced to join with an unlikely ally to free them.

 

 

[DittyDotDot]

Ugh. I thought we said a rather nice goodbye to Lisa and Ben already, why'd they feel the need to screw that up? At least Dean got to be the badass of all badasses--I guess.

 

Even though Jared and Jensen play their parts well, I'm actually more interested in Bobby's hunt for Lovecraft's monster than the typical capture-and-torture demons part of the story. I want to know more about that night at Lovecraft's and I want to know what kind of monster Ellie actually was. The old man Bobby visits in the home is an interesting character played by an interesting actor, IMO, I wouldn't have minded seeing more of him. Even the stuff with Cass and Balthazar is more interesting to me than Dean stubbornly and desperately looking for Lisa and Ben while Sam helplessly ties to help. Although, Sam's whole if-you-have-a-heart prayer to Cass is rather heartbreaking as is Dean's final scenes with Cass and more so Dean's final scene with Ben and Lisa.

 

I'll only say this about the Lisa and Ben mind wipe--I understand why they did it, they wanted to shut the door for good--but it just doesn't make a lot of sense; there should be consequences for these sorts of actions; and it devalues so much of what Dean did and was for Ben and Lisa. I always wonder how Cass managed to wipe and entire year of Dean's existence from their memory. I mean, Dean interacted with more people than just Lisa and Ben in that year--apparently she had a sister who Dean met; neighbors and friends; employers and co-workers--did Cass go to each and every person and erase their memories too? What about Lisa's boyfriend Crowley killed? Wouldn't people be asking Lisa what happened to him? What about all the pictures and things acquired while Dean lived with them? That shotgun in Lisa's closet? Am I to believe clueless Cass managed to realize he needed to clean all this stuff up too? Oops, sorry, I was only gonna say one thing...moving on.

 

So, in short, I like to pretend most of this episode just didn't happen. Doesn't change the narrative since Dean already said a grown up goodbye to Lisa and Ben anyway. Sorry, no good to end on. I just don't think it deserves it.

[Dobian]

I agree, the whole mind wipe thing was amazingly stupid and riddled with the thousand plot holes of a salt shell shotgun blast.

[GirlyGeek]

While the mind wipe is a mine-field of plot holes and questions, when I get to the core of it, I like the storyline.  It was necessary, and the last half of this season was about stripping Dean down some (figuratively speaking only, unfortunately).  Betrayed by Cas, now losing Lisa and Ben.  Even while he's not with them, what they represent to Dean is important, and a big loss for him emotionally.

So, watching Dean on the phone with Ben, trying to hold it together, having to tell this child to jump out of a window, hearing screaming in the background, etc etc... well that works for me on an emotional level.  I especially love Sam standing up and refusing to let Dean push him away and do this on his own.  Sam's support of Dean in the last half of the season is nice to see after the last couple of seasons of fighting and weirdness.
Sam calling out to Cas, despite Dean being stubborn and not wanting him to, was a great scene.  I think Jared played the support role here well, and I could see him realizing that losing Ben and Lisa, especially if Cas was involved in the plan, would be a blow that Dean may not recover from.

I also love the scene when Dean finds Ben and Lisa:the demon in Lisa stabbing herself and Dean, looking at Ben sadly, and continuing the exorcism.  Slapping Ben across the face shocked me the first time- though I get why he did it, it was so anti-Dean (and difficult, as a parent, to see) that I was angry the first time.  And, while I love John Winchester, Dean's regression into barking orders and yelling at Ben had me seeing what I imagined John to be like with Sam and Dean as children.

I find it interesting that Dean didn't even bother to ask Cas to fix Lisa.  It came across as pure stubbornness on Dean's part.  After all, at this point, he and Cas are on opposite sides, but it wasn't unfixable.  Cas is working with Crowley, but I didn't feel like he'd done anything TO Dean (yet), unless I'm misremembering.  Historically, however, betrayal and lying is usually enough of a reason for Dean.  Its very much like season 4 between Sam and Dean- Dean *knows* that Sam is wrong and on the wrong path, just like he knows Cas is on the wrong path here.  

So it makes me glad that there's still enough of a bond there that Cas, of course, fixes Lisa.  And the look on Dean's face, the side-eyed Thank You, though he can't-quite-look-at-Cas was very well done. 

The scene at the end in the car, when Sam says that Dean's pulled a lot of shady crap... that rubs me the wrong way entirely.  It seemed way OOC for Sam to jump on Dean like that when its obvious that Dean is torn up about the decision.  Yes, Sam drops it right away when Dean asks him too, but the line from Sam didn't seem right to me.  Really?  Dean's pulled a lot of shady crap?  Wow, way to be supportive.  And when, exactly did Dean pull all this shady crap?  Ugh, just don't like it

[AwesomO4000]

5 hours ago, GirlyGeek said:

The scene at the end in the car, when Sam says that Dean's pulled a lot of shady crap... that rubs me the wrong way entirely.  It seemed way OOC for Sam to jump on Dean like that when its obvious that Dean is torn up about the decision.  Yes, Sam drops it right away when Dean asks him too, but the line from Sam didn't seem right to me.  Really?  Dean's pulled a lot of shady crap?  Wow, way to be supportive.  And when, exactly did Dean pull all this shady crap?  Ugh, just don't like it

I agree that Sam was harsh here, and he shouldn't have singled Dean out, but I think maybe he was coming at it from his recent - and also previous - experiences of having his memories warped. That is what he seemed get set off by. Sam knows how awful it is to have lost time and memories as well as having his will messed with beyond his control (Meg possessing him)* which is what he told Dean ("Take it from somebody who knows"). As for the "shady stuff," the only thing I can think of is the deal and Dean making a unilateral decision like that. If that's what Sam was referring to, then in my opinion, it would be a somewhat fair criticism. But also in terms of the show, brought up way too late, because that had pretty much been glossed over and swept under the rug (not fairly in my opinion, but I digress), and it was a bit late - and somewhat random - to bring up now... except that maybe Sam's recent experiences had left him with that kind of feeling again. Just last episode, Sam was very shaken by learning that Castiel was the one who brought him back soulless and apparently not maybe caring enough to check on him and/or leaving him that way. So I think the idea of someone having their memories wiped maybe was an open sore spot for Sam at this particular time.

As you said though, Sam did drop the subject and let it go as soon as he saw how upset Dean really was.

* Ironically Dean also knows this. He told Tessa how he felt that he had a hole in his gut for a year because of the lost memories from the time in the hospital after he almost died, so he knows how awful it can be. So even though he was torn up about wiping Lisa and Ben's memories, he did seem to make the decision to do so rather quickly even knowing how badly it can feel.

[catrox14]

I was just rewatching this.

Cas wiped Lisa and Ben's memory at Dean's behest (which I won't rehash all the other things that are dumb about that plot choice) but what I really don't understand is did Cas implant a false memories  that they were in a car wreck?

If so, did Cas and/or Dean put dents in her car to make it be true? Wouldn't Lisa be "Wait, you hit my car, Mr. Stranger Man? What about the insurance? Did we swap information? Who is paying for my hospitalization"

[gonzosgirrl]

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 PM, catrox14 said:

I was just rewatching this.

Cas wiped Lisa and Ben's memory at Dean's behest (which I won't rehash all the other things that are dumb about that plot choice) but what I really don't understand is did Cas implant a false memories  that they were in a car wreck?

If so, did Cas and/or Dean put dents in her car to make it be true? Wouldn't Lisa be "Wait, you hit my car, Mr. Stranger Man? What about the insurance? Did we swap information? Who is paying for my hospitalization"

So, so many things wrong with this mind-wipe, most of which are so egregious they don't even need listing. For me, the biggest and worst is the idea that Dean believed he was protecting them by doing this. Uhh, Dean honey? Just because Lisa & Ben can't remember you doesn't mean the big bads you're afraid will use them against you again won't remember them. Jeez. I think this is probably the single dumbest thing they ever had him do, and it pisses me off to end.

All that said though? Jensen acted the hell out of this episode. One of his best, IMO.

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So, so many things wrong with this mind-wipe, most of which are so egregious they don't even need listing. For me, the biggest and worst is the idea that Dean believed he was protecting them by doing this. Uhh, Dean honey? Just because Lisa & Ben can't remember you doesn't mean the big bads you're afraid will use them against you again won't remember them. Jeez. I think this is probably the single dumbest thing they ever had him do, and it pisses me off to end.

All that said though? Jensen acted the hell out of this episode. One of his best, IMO.

I can only fanwank that Cas somehow ran around and found ALL of the people that ran in Lisa's circles  and wiped their memories of Dean Or her friends that knew Dean just figured she doesn't want to talk about their breakup when they ask about him and she says "Dean who?" .

Then Cas amended his deal with Crowley demanding that Crowley wipe the memories of any demons that knew of Lisa and Ben and then he made Crowley pinky swear to never go after her and Ben ever again or their deal was off.

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I can only fanwank that Cas somehow ran around and found ALL of the people that ran in Lisa's circles  and wiped their memories of Dean Or her friends that knew Dean just figured she doesn't want to talk about their breakup when they ask about him and she says "Dean who?" .

Then Cas amended his deal with Crowley demanding that Crowley wipe the memories of any demons that knew of Lisa and Ben and then he made Crowley pinky swear to never go after her and Ben ever again or their deal was off.

LOL, that works. Honestly, I don't know what they were thinking, but I guess I'm glad they didn't just kill them both off, because I don't think Dean would've come back from that.

[Hanahope]

Agree that it be mind wipe made no sense, from a practical need (having to change so much) as well as it doesn't really protect them since its Dean who remembers and would still be vulnerable to their capture.

i almost felt it was for Deans sake, so he wouldn't have to face their accusations and anger at being victims because of him.

i was thinking that with what Dean was telling Ben at the  next that Ben would want to learn more about hunting and how surely Dean didn't want that.

[Katy M]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:27 PM, Hanahope said:

Agree that it be mind wipe made no sense, from a practical need (having to change so much) as well as it doesn't really protect them since its Dean who remembers and would still be vulnerable to their capture.

i almost felt it was for Deans sake, so he wouldn't have to face their accusations and anger at being victims because of him.

i was thinking that with what Dean was telling Ben at the  next that Ben would want to learn more about hunting and how surely Dean didn't want that.

I always figured Cas wiped Lisa and Ben out of every monster's mind, too.  Then went back to the house, cleaned up, brought Matt back to life, made sure there were no pics of Dean.  Wiped Lisa's fam's and friend's minds.  He was really busy that day. 

[catrox14]

7 hours ago, Katy M said:

I always figured Cas wiped Lisa and Ben out of every monster's mind, too.  Then went back to the house, cleaned up, brought Matt back to life, made sure there were no pics of Dean.  Wiped Lisa's fam's and friend's minds.  He was really busy that day. 

Spoilers for s9

Spoiler

It's a good thing Cas still had the ability to teleport back then. He'd be screwed if he had to try and do that now! It would take him DAYS cause he'd have to drive everywhere.

[bettername2come]

"Bobby Singer, paranoid bastard." It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. I like when they drag real historical people into the show's mythology. Crowley, you've gone too far! I wish I liked Balthazar. The actor's awesome, his accent's charming, but every time he shows up I kind of wonder what he's doing here. I felt like on rewatch he would make more sense to me, but he still just doesn't feel like he fits. I like the monster lady. Possessed Lisa is disturbing. Nice work by Cindy Sampson. I still want Ben to be Dean's kid. Dean slapping Ben to get him to focus is still shocking. I also assume Castiel planted false memories to the hospital staff because otherwise they'd be like, "No, she was stabbed. Hey, where'd the sad attractive man go?" 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Moishe Campbell.  Tee hee.  Why have they never followed up with this?  

Look at how Dean is carrying those mugs.  That's kinda hot.  Yes, I'm weird like that.  Wonder if there's actually anything in them?  Even water - it looks real when they drink.  I've never read Lovecraft.  I'm going to have to pick up a book now.  How horrifying for Dean to hear Ben on the phone, and for Ben to witness, of course.  But I was thinking of how powerless Dean must have felt at that moment when Ben is asking what to do and Dean couldn't give him a good answer.  And then to hear Crowley on the phone.

So back in the day, they could just summon angels.  They also know how to summon demons.  Why didn't they just summon Crowley, cause when they do (summon him) he kind of 'has' to appear, right?  I like Balthazar, but I agree with @bettername2come that he doesn't really 'fit'.  I think they made up his character because they realized they killed off Gabriel too quickly.  Gabe would have been perfect in that role.  Although I do laugh at the "I'm officially on your team." Insert eye roll.  "You bastards" bit.  

"It's never friendly!"  Lol.  "I mean, I imagine."  (I can never hear 'I imagine' in any voice but Sam's now since French Mistake)

Where do they find all these random demons to interrogate when they need to?

I wish the show had explored Ellie and 'what she was' more - and how she wasn't exactly a 'bad' monster from Purgatory.  I wonder what she really was.  

I guess Bobby still didn't fix the angel warding if Balthazar can pop in.  

Ben was amazing, shooting that demon, when Dean was getting Lisa out.  I think the demon let Lisa 'out' so to speak when Dean first burst into the room, because the way she was looking back and forth between Ben and the door, her fear looked real.  Then I guess the demon took control back when it saw it really was Dean.  Now I really want Ben to remember and show up in S13.  :)

[DeeDee79]

On 9/13/2017 at 9:37 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

 I think they made up his character because they realized they killed off Gabriel too quickly.  Gabe would have been perfect in that role.

Although if they kept Gabriel wouldn't Castiel's quest to beat Raphael be nonexistent? Since Gabe is also an archangel he wouldn't really need to help Cas to be powerful enough to take him down since he would be able to do so himself.

[sarthaz]

This episode has always bothered me, because no way Lisa would ever wear that outfit.  But also ... why is she laughing at the baseball game?  WHAT'S SO FUNNY?!

[Katy M]

39 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

This episode has always bothered me, because no way Lisa would ever wear that outfit.  But also ... why is she laughing at the baseball game?  WHAT'S SO FUNNY?!

I can't even remember what she was wearing. 

She was laughing because Matt got upset that his team made an error, or got out, or let the other team get a run.  She was laughing because he was upset about it. 

[sarthaz]

27 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I can't even remember what she was wearing. 

She was laughing because Matt got upset that his team made an error, or got out, or let the other team get a run.  She was laughing because he was upset about it. 

It's like a flowery blouse with a bland cardigan and mom sketchers. 100% nope.

I think she's laughing because the audio commentary doesn't match the video. The announcer says it's a line-drive to short and they're trying to get the runner before he dives back to the base, but the action on the screen shows a guy running to 3rd and the ball coming in from left field on what was likely a 1st-to-3rd single. Lisa, a devoted baseball fan, is like: "This makes no sense. And what am I even wearing. LOLZ."

(I acknowledge I have a problem)

[The Companion]

On 12/9/2014 at 8:28 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Ugh. I thought we said a rather nice goodbye to Lisa and Ben already, why'd they feel the need to screw that up? At least Dean got to be the badass of all badasses--I guess.

Even though Jared and Jensen play their parts well, I'm actually more interested in Bobby's hunt for Lovecraft's monster than the typical capture-and-torture demons part of the story. I want to know more about that night at Lovecraft's and I want to know what kind of monster Ellie actually was. The old man Bobby visits in the home is an interesting character played by an interesting actor, IMO, I wouldn't have minded seeing more of him. Even the stuff with Cass and Balthazar is more interesting to me than Dean stubbornly and desperately looking for Lisa and Ben while Sam helplessly ties to help. Although, Sam's whole if-you-have-a-heart prayer to Cass is rather heartbreaking as is Dean's final scenes with Cass and more so Dean's final scene with Ben and Lisa.

I'll only say this about the Lisa and Ben mind wipe--I understand why they did it, they wanted to shut the door for good--but it just doesn't make a lot of sense; there should be consequences for these sorts of actions; and it devalues so much of what Dean did and was for Ben and Lisa. I always wonder how Cass managed to wipe and entire year of Dean's existence from their memory. I mean, Dean interacted with more people than just Lisa and Ben in that year--apparently she had a sister who Dean met; neighbors and friends; employers and co-workers--did Cass go to each and every person and erase their memories too? What about Lisa's boyfriend Crowley killed? Wouldn't people be asking Lisa what happened to him? What about all the pictures and things acquired while Dean lived with them? That shotgun in Lisa's closet? Am I to believe clueless Cass managed to realize he needed to clean all this stuff up too? Oops, sorry, I was only gonna say one thing...moving on.

So, in short, I like to pretend most of this episode just didn't happen. Doesn't change the narrative since Dean already said a grown up goodbye to Lisa and Ben anyway. Sorry, no good to end on. I just don't think it deserves it.

I agree about the mindwipe and the best I have is maybe the ripples just happen the same way unsinking the Titanic did. Or maybe they can. I was really sad how they ended it and i didn't think the story added enough to merit it.

On 4/28/2017 at 3:03 PM, catrox14 said:

I was just rewatching this.

Cas wiped Lisa and Ben's memory at Dean's behest (which I won't rehash all the other things that are dumb about that plot choice) but what I really don't understand is did Cas implant a false memories  that they were in a car wreck?

If so, did Cas and/or Dean put dents in her car to make it be true? Wouldn't Lisa be "Wait, you hit my car, Mr. Stranger Man? What about the insurance? Did we swap information? Who is paying for my hospitalization"

I couldn't help but think the same thing. Thank's for the apology, but i really need the accident report and the number for your insurance company.

On 5/23/2017 at 2:21 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

So, so many things wrong with this mind-wipe, most of which are so egregious they don't even need listing. For me, the biggest and worst is the idea that Dean believed he was protecting them by doing this. Uhh, Dean honey? Just because Lisa & Ben can't remember you doesn't mean the big bads you're afraid will use them against you again won't remember them. Jeez. I think this is probably the single dumbest thing they ever had him do, and it pisses me off to end.

All that said though? Jensen acted the hell out of this episode. One of his best, IMO.

Agree! What kind of ostrich thinking is this? Ignorance didnt save your brother. Now, Ben just doesn't know who to call when something comes for them.

This episode had some really poignant emotional beats, but it didn't really make sense and I admit i found it boring at times. I am not really sure whar we gained with most of it.