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MaryHedwig

S03.E01: Enough Nemesis To Go Around

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If she turns out to be Sherlock's surprise love child, I could forgive her insertion into the show.

Love this!  Or maybe she's Mycroft's love child...or Alistair's...or, heck, Papa Holmes' making her the half-sister...  Let's hope for a good backstory here...but we better hear it quickly, I have a feeling poor Kitty is not long for this world.

 

We never heard about the five-line I'm-leaving-you letter last year did we?  Seems like new writers took over and did not follow through with the heroin packet and Mycroft's disappearance (except to say he did not use it but no wrap up story here.)

 

I was counting the months, eight I think since Mycroft's disappearance.  I think we saw enough of Joan from the front to know she is not carrying Mycroft's child...but I wondered what was up with those exact time frames.

 

So Joan's separation from Sherlock includes unlimited access to the Brownstone?  Boundary problem, Joan? Or was she stopping by to feed the bees.

 

I thought the hanger house-warming gift was interesting.  Sherlock had been in Watons's closet enough times selecting clothes...maybe he remembered that she always had recent impulse buys bunched up in a corner on the floor.  They do know each other that well.

 

Also didn't get Gregson's coldness to Sherlock, didn't really believe it either....seemed like an "I'm a man and can't be intimate" speech which is probably the kind of talk that dissolved his marriage.  I did like Gregson's line about "spare me the parlor tricks" when Sherlock was deducing about his new girlfriend.

 

I watch this show for the deep connection scenes between Watson and Sherlock...this episode better have just been a set-up for that in episodes to come.  Work provides all the hostility I need in my life.

 

What was up with the darkness in the Brownstone?  Was Joan always the one to pay the electric bill?

Edited by MaryHedwig
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maybe she's Mycroft's love child...or Alistair's...or, heck, Papa Holmes' making her the half-sister...  Let's hope for a good backstory here...but we better hear it quickly, I have a feeling poor Kitty is not long for this world.

Again, in their usual awkward way, this show is loudly telegraphing that Kitty is not what she seems.  By default I went to the "she's there to spy/subvert Holmes" idea, but I suppose her instead simply not being WHO she seems to be is another idea they might have gone with (she's squirrely, but it's hard to tell if the agenda is against Holmes, for him or neutral but her own).  

 

I don't know if I buy her as Mycroft's kid, although I suppose that's possible with this weird version of Mycroft.  Since we don't really know Papa Holmes, it would kind of annoy me if he was just an easy out for her existence--Mycroft at least wouldn't be as much of a cheat on us.  If her actual last name was Lestrade?  I dunno.  I guess it would make a certain amount of sense.  

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I thought this was a solid premiere, enough to keep me coming back for more. I dropped this show around the midpoint of last season...partly it was RL getting in the way, but partly it was because Mycroft was awful and forced and had no chemistry with either Joan or Sherlock, and I couldn't take the Mycroft Show any more. They were trying to replicate the lightning in a bottle they caught with Natalie Dormer in S1, but while she was sublime, Mycroft was awful. I can see the appeal of splitting Holmes and Watson up, but Mycroft was absolutely the wrong tool with which to do it. At any rate, this was a pretty good soft reboot for the show, with Watson being the one who needs to thaw instead of Sherlock this time. jmo, but I didn't think there was anything OTT about Joan being pissed at Sherlock--especially because it seemed obvious to me that her anger came from a place of deep hurt. If my best friend took off for 8 months and left me a 5-sentence note? I'd be pissed and hurt as f*** too. I also didn't see anything untoward in Gregson's speech to Sherlock. He's never particularly adored Holmes, and has gotten burned by him several times (Sherlock torturing Moran comes to mind). I can totally see why Gregson would say gaining Holmes wasn't worth losing Watson. Watson is dependable and isn't going to up and leave with a 5-sentence note, works well with others, isn't someone who's going to go torture someone on a whim.... With that said, I do hope that the show can drop the antagonistic aspect and now just focus on how Watson and Holmes come back together.

 

I didn't adore Kitty, but I didn't hate her, either. The actress did a good job with a character that is pretty much designed to be disliked by the audience. And thanks to whoever posted that she was in Guardians of the Galaxy! I would have racked my brain for days and never come up with where I knew her from.

 

In Joan's defense, the whole I-realized-that-I'm-an-awesome-mentor-and-that-you-can-be-replaced thing was pretty obnoxious.

And also kind of untrue...granted we've seen like five minutes of it, but I'm not particularly impressed with his mentoring of Kitty. Though awww when Kitty said that he never shuts up about Joan.

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I hated it. I completely  hated it. And it isn't a bad episode, quite the contrary.  But why would I want to see Sherlock Holmes, who's always been one of my favourite characters, groveling after Watson? Asking Watson for permission to work with the police? WTF is this?

    And yes, good friends say goodbye in person. Do you know  something else good friends do? They don't bang your brother if you have a bad relationship with him.

    If they want to make Watson fantastic and awesome, of course, by all means. But if they can't do that without turning Holmes into some submissive lap dog who needs to be taught some manners, I'm out.

 

That seems to cover a lot of my reaction.

I was nearly ready to drop the show after the train wreck I considered last season to be. I hated Mycroft and even more hated Joan's relationship with him; I wanted to give the show another chance with Mycroft gone - I won't give it much more time.

What I liked the most about the show was the relationship between Sherlock and Joan. As closed off emotionally as they both are, as undemonstrative as they are, the friendship always shone through. The genuine affection, the enjoyment they seemed to have in each other's company was a pleasure to watch. I don't understand the pissy, bitchy,cold Joan who seems to have lost any and all caring for Sherlock.  I also don't understand the punitive attiude, both Joan and Gregson display toward him. Is the point of the show, to bring Sherlock down?  Sherlock is not going to be a warm, fuzzy character with high emotional intelligence, but he is not without feelings, nor unable to care about others. Others who care about him could nudge toward emotional appropriateness without always punishing him.

I could pick at many other things, but they've killed the heart of the show and unless a heart transplant is going to happen, I just don't care very much about those things.

Surprisingly, I didn't mind Kitty. She at least seemed full of life.

Edited by Suzn
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And also kind of untrue...granted we've seen like five minutes of it, but I'm not particularly impressed with his mentoring of Kitty. Though awww when Kitty said that he never shuts up about Joan.

Very creepy (and not impressive) that Sherlock handcuffed her and left her unattended.  Shouldn't you be close enough to the handcuffed person to hear the safe word and stop the game if they are panicking?  Didn't Sherlock learn anything from Mistress Felicia?

Edited by MaryHedwig
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I just feel like getting mad over these adaptations is like getting pissed over all the crazy things people are doing with Shakespeare. Sherlock Holmes is THE trope codifier, if not the trope maker, of the detective procedural, and Shakespeare is motherfuckin' Shakespeare, man. I guess purists are gonna be purists, but it’s such a futile endeavor when we’re talking about something as influential and widespread as Holmes/Shakespeare/etc. Whenever the subject comes up, it’s like I hear Adele Dazeem far off in the distance.

 

ETA: I get not caring for a specific change. Like setting Elementary in NYC? So many procedurals are already set in NYC, it feels like such a boring/conventional choice. I live in NYC and I’m sick of seeing so many shows set here haha. But that’s different from thinking that the show’s NYC setting is an insult to the Holmes universe. 

It's funny you say that about NYC. As someone who lives in the Midwest, I prefer to watch detective shows set in NYC or London. Maybe it's the big city thing that fascinates me.

Edited by Writing Wrongs

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Count me as someone who likes Watson's clothes. They don't need a lot of care, they're comfortable, easy to put on or take off, easily fit over the combination of long tshirt and boxers she usually sleeps in, and don't restrict movement. Perfect.

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First, I never said BBC's Sherlock is the only one - but, the reason for getting a "modern" Sherlock as CBS has coughed up with a female Watson (taking what I consider one of the coolest male friendships in literature and altering it drastically to this version), set it in NYC, made her surgeon who lost a patient/sober companion vs what Watson was in the stories (a soldier home from war, traumatized, addicted to the thrill of the chase) - was all done because they were denied rights to replicate Sherlock here and to go forward with some modern version of Holmes, they needed to change it up - so they twisted it into what they produced: Elementary.

No. They did not "need" to change it that much. Sherlock Holmes is in the public domain, so anyone can do pretty much anything they want with it. CBS could have made a modern Sherlock show with a military Dr. Watson and set it in London and as long as there were enough differences, there's not a lot the BBC could have done about it. Making Watson a woman and sober companion, setting the show in New York-- these are deliberate creative choices by the creators of Elementary.

Edited by Minneapple
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Count me as someone who likes Watson's clothes. They don't need a lot of care, they're comfortable, easy to put on or take off, easily fit over the combination of long tshirt and boxers she usually sleeps in, and don't restrict movement. Perfect.

For the most part I think her clothes really suit her, but I am still trying to get used to the white top over a black bra combo?  Is that some big city thing?

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I was also suspicious of how she met the boyfriend.  When she turned away from him he put his hand behind him, I thought he was going to pull out a gun.  He's not long for this show.

I kept waiting for him to be revealed as one of the bad guys. Didn't like the actor when he appeared in Smash, and don't like him in this show either.

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For the most part I think her clothes really suit her, but I am still trying to get used to the white top over a black bra combo?  Is that some big city thing?

There were comments about the same combination on Madam Secretary, and then I started to see it elsewhere, so I think it's a thing.

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Many problems with this episode, which have already been well elucidated on this thread, so I won't repeat.

 

I have a question, though: Did the brownstone move? I thought in previous seasons it was looking out over the river, but now Joan was walking away from it down a leafy street...

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Many problems with this episode, which have already been well elucidated on this thread, so I won't repeat.

 

I have a question, though: Did the brownstone move? I thought in previous seasons it was looking out over the river, but now Joan was walking away from it down a leafy street...

You'll have to explain your impressions a bit more, since I deleted my recording.  

 

Riverside Drive on the West side of Manhattan, is mostly trees/park-land and then a stone wall blocking a cliff on one side, and Brownstones (or more likely these days on most blocks, entire apartment buildings) on the other.  If that's what you saw, it's matches the reality of the street.

 

So it would indeed be a very leafy street--the key thing is if you saw buildings on one side of the street or both. In previous seasons I vaguely recall there being buildings on both sides of Holmes' street.  But I could be remembering wrong.

Edited by Kromm

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I think I've see Joan's boyfriend recently on Homeland as a probable bad guy, so it automatically made me think he'll be a villain or something, but in retrospect, I doubt that.

When he was on Homeland, I recognized him as Karen's cheating boyfriend on Smash (don't judge me!) so when he asked Joan if she had seen a lizard and he had one hand behind his back as she walked down the hall, I was convinced he was reaching for a hidden weapon.

 

Does anyone else have trouble hearing the dialog on this show?  I have my volume dialed almost all the way up and still have a hard time.  The characters seem to whisper a lot.  Frustrating!
I noticed this last season.  Holmes speaks in a very low voice, and Watson isn't much better.  I always have to turn the volume way up.

I agree - JLM has a lower pitched voice so usually when he is speaking in a calm voice, it's hard to hear him. When he gets a little more excited, the pitch of his voice is slightly higher and the volume is a little louder, it's slightly easier to hear him but I really do have to turn up the volume for this show.

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You'll have to explain your impressions a bit more, since I deleted my recording.  

 

Riverside Drive on the West side of Manhattan, is mostly trees/park-land and then a stone wall blocking a cliff on one side, and Brownstones (or more likely these days on most blocks, entire apartment buildings) on the other.  If that's what you saw, it's matches the reality of the street.

 

So it would indeed be a very leafy street--the key thing is if you saw buildings on one side of the street or both. In previous seasons I vaguely recall there being buildings on both sides of Holmes' street.  But I could be remembering wrong.

 

That's what I'm remembering differently from you. My memory from previous seasons is of trees/houses on one side of the street only, and then the river (I thought it was supposed to be the East River, as Sherlock's house was supposed to be in Brooklyn) in front of it. But in this episode, the brownstone is on a street with trees/houses on both sides of the street. Screenshot below:

 

2w4go6x.jpg

 

I may be misremembering if from previously, so just checking if this looks new to anyone else.

Edited by Big Bad Wolf

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I agree the dialogue is too quiet, but Holmes and Watson also both mumble and are often facing away from the camera, so you can't even lipread them. I use the captions as well as the volume control.

 

I also felt confused by why everyone was so upset about Holmes leaving. What did he say in his 5 sentence note? I could understand if he had disappeared without any note at all, because they'd be legitimately worried he'd been killed. But unless the note was terrible, I don't understand the thoroughness of everyone's disgust. I imagine him saying he's gone away to sort things out for himself, that he realized he needed to clear his head after recent events, and that he'd taken a secret job he could not discuss. It's not what you want to hear if you're depending on him, but it's not totally impossible to forgive. Joan just said she was moving out, after having declared her right to date his estranged brother. Everyone knows Sherlock has a tenuous grip on sobriety and is emotionally volatile. How could they not have a clue he might go off the rails?

 

It looks to me like the network realizes the positive relationship between Watson and Holmes is the appeal of the show, though, based on the way they've been advertizing Joan standing in the Brownstone kitchen saying she wants to hug him. I don't know why they set up the hostility or how they'll get from that to the hug stuff, but clearly they know they can't keep the main characters at odds for long.

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I also felt confused by why everyone was so upset about Holmes leaving. What did he say in his 5 sentence note? I could understand if he had disappeared without any note at all, because they'd be legitimately worried he'd been killed. But unless the note was terrible, I don't understand the thoroughness of everyone's disgust. I imagine him saying he's gone away to sort things out for himself, that he realized he needed to clear his head after recent events, and that he'd taken a secret job he could not discuss. It's not what you want to hear if you're depending on him, but it's not totally impossible to forgive. Joan just said she was moving out, after having declared her right to date his estranged brother. Everyone knows Sherlock has a tenuous grip on sobriety and is emotionally volatile. How could they not have a clue he might go off the rails?

 

He'd also just been through the insanity of Joan being kidnapped and nearly killed, as well as finding out his brother had essentially been coerced to join MI6 because of Sherlock's past behavior, as well as then finding his brother (and likely the rest of the trio) were being set up and likely going to be killed by people inside of MI6. If ever there were a time to work from within the agency and get some info on exactly who was up to what, it was pretty much following an invitation to join. Now, Mycroft basically limped away and forced himself into some kind of witness protection thing for life, but I'm not clear as to whether that was more about him trying to keep everyone else safe, or not having the patience to wait for Joan and Sherlock to clear his name. Either way though, it seems like a less-forgivable offense.

 

It was some sort of a boundary violation for Joan to get all up in Mycroft's business from her visit to London and on, but the show did such a poor job of making their connection believable, that the entire story line got bogged down in the ha?whaaa?why? aspect instead of supporting Watson's right to a personal life.

 

In my mind, Sherlock didn't really go off of the rails, but this whole thing reminded of the awful end of the Cuddy/House relationship back in the day: Who knew that an addict, while under times of great stress, might relapse?! Not that all addict behavior is acceptable, but it's rare that someone enters recovery and, ta-da, that's the end. The I-never-liked-you-anyway! and the It's-our-department-now-and-you-can't-play! were stupid reactions and the type of thing you'd expect to see from people either covering their own asses or who think addiction is a choice, and we've been told for 2 years that they are not those kinds of people. 

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Does anyone else have trouble hearing the dialog on this show? I have my volume dialed almost all the way up and still have a hard time. The characters seem to whisper a lot. Frustrating!

I always have trouble hearing the dialogue on this show and I can never get my closed captioning to work. It's really frustrating and does interfere with my enjoyment of the show.

Like many others, I disliked the cold estrangement. The Holmes/Watson friendship is the reason I watch this show. While I appreciate that Sherlock's assiness leads to both consequences and growth unlike most of these types of characters, appreciating it isn't the same as enjoying it. I hope they get back together soon. There's only so much strife between friends that I can take before I start wondering why they would want to be friends again in the first place. I hate it when TPTB ruin a central relationship and thus their entire show with that kind of unnecessary toxic drama. I'm looking at you, White Collar.

Edited by cynic
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That's what I'm remembering differently from you. My memory from previous seasons is of trees/houses on one side of the street only, and then the river (I thought it was supposed to be the East River, as Sherlock's house was supposed to be in Brooklyn) in front of it. But in this episode, the brownstone is on a street with trees/houses on both sides of the street. Screenshot below:

 

2w4go6x.jpg

 

I may be misremembering if from previously, so just checking if this looks new to anyone else.

There are real areas in both Manhattan and Brooklyn that look like this street.  In Manhattan, the side streets along Central Park West, for example.  In Brooklyn I guess there are areas like Park Slope and Cobble Hill. If we could better make out what that area down by the traffic light looks like, it would be easier to tell.

 

No idea if they've changed the external location or not.  If you remember a Brownstone overlooking a River, I suppose it could be Brooklyn, but my memory of the Brownstones in Brooklyn is that they'd be in-land a bit--immediately next to the river there's parks and an Interstate Highway (the BQE) and all kinds of moldy old warehouses and docks and piers (in Manhattan, if it HAD been Riverside Drive even that's not really near the Hudson River, but it's on the edge of a cliff so that the land still further West of it doesn't obscure the River views).

 

Hmm.  This site about filming locations doesn't narrow it down much: http://onthesetofnewyork.com/24122012.html

 

 

Unlike some New York based TV shows, this one is actually filmed in New York with locations such as Central Park, Gramercy Park, the courthouse at 60 Centre Street and areas of Brooklyn.

It doesn't specify if "Central Park" includes the area near the Brownstone (if that's where it is, I mean), or if that's why Brooklyn is cited.

 

This source claims though: http://cbselementary.wikia.com/wiki/The_Brownstone

 

 

The house consists of at least four floors, including a basement,[1] and a terrace on the roof. The roof has a view of Queensboro Bridge and Manhattan, and is also where Sherlock keeps his bees.[2]

Note that they say the ROOF is what has the view of the Queensboro Bridge and Manhattan though, not from the street. But it's called "Queensboro Bridge" for a reason--it's in Queens (the neighborhood is Long Island City), not Brooklyn.  There is the odd Brownstone street there, I think, but it's certainly not where I would have pegged them having him living.

Edited by Kromm

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What has happened to Sherlock's hair? I hate to sound shallow but it distracted me from the storyline. All I could think about was his majorly receding hairline.

 

I liked seeing Competent Joan. Did not need to see Kitty.

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I liked the twist of Moran's air gun (even if it was Moran). The Empty House, Holmes's return in the books, also featured a closed room mystery with interesting bullets and a weird gun. So, I enjoyed this adaption. And if Kitty is loosely based off Kitty Winter, most definitely petty criminal, though keep her away from the acid. She threw vitriol at Gruner's face in front of Holmes and Watson.

 

I got the feeling it wasn't just the note that Joan was pissed about, it was a slow burn last season of Sherlock and Joan figuring out each other's boundaries. Especially the last half of the season. I think this is just the culmination. And I got the feeling that Joan was working towards warming back up to him. I can't imagine that they'll keep up the distance forever, but I can see Joan saying she needs her apartment and her own work to feel as if she's accomplishing something other than being a sounding board. Sherlock knows she wasn't but I can see how she would feel that way. Also, in the stories, Watson did continue to practice medicine, so can see Joan being pulled into one of Sherlock's while she's working a completely unrelated case, and I'd be fine with that.

 

As much as I love their friendship, I was pleased to see that they can succeed and grow without each other. They are still Joan and Sherlock, and the one may be better with the other, but their well being and happiness is not solely dependent on one another. I appreciate that.

 

But now I want to see them friends again.

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Also it is in character that the Capt. would "choose" Watson over Holmes.  The Capt. has told Holmes before that they we solving cases before Holmes arrived.  So, of course, he would want his help but not above all other things, like loyalty to and respect for Watson.

Can we assume that Gregson is paying Watson and Holmes is still willing to work for free?  If Watson is working for free, who is paying for that tony (by New York standards) apartment?

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As much as I love their friendship, I was pleased to see that they can succeed and grow without each other. They are still Joan and Sherlock, and the one may be better with the other, but their well being and happiness is not solely dependent on one another. I appreciate that.

I actually like this part, too, and I think it's a good point in that they were kind of co-dependent before, and that's not good any way you look at it, but particularly if Joan was supposed to help Sherlock with his recovery, not become a crutch so he wouldn't have to complete it. I think they could have achieved this without having Joan be pissed off, though. They could have written it so that they realized the separation had been good for both of their growth, were proud of each other for managing solo, and happy to see each other, having worried about each other during their separation. This show seems to be invested in the idea that Sherlock is a pain in the ass to the people around him, though, and they seem to want to keep it angsty. It's kind of weird, because I don't remember the original stories being so emo. They've taken the fun adventure feeling out and given the series sort of a gloomy tone.

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Thanks, Kromm. I actually lived in NYC for several years, so I'm very familiar with the geographical layout. I think this is very useful:

 

The house consists of at least four floors, including a basement,[1] and a terrace on the roof. The roof has a view of Queensboro Bridge and Manhattan, and is also where Sherlock keeps his bees.[2]

 

Because it basically confirms what I remembered from last year: the brownstone they were using overlooked the East River (although there was definitely a wall/parkland etc in between). I think it was meant to be around Brooklyn Heights. I think they've changed the external location they're using this season. HOWEVER, the roof terrace location was never on top of any real brownstone in Brooklyn or anywhere. They used the top of Silvercup Studios in Queens (where they film the episode interiors), hence the views of the 59th Street/Queensboro Bridge and Manhattan. I suspect they won't change that this season.

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Thanks, Kromm. I actually lived in NYC for several years, so I'm very familiar with the geographical layout. I think this is very useful:

 

 

Because it basically confirms what I remembered from last year: the brownstone they were using overlooked the East River (although there was definitely a wall/parkland etc in between). I think it was meant to be around Brooklyn Heights. I think they've changed the external location they're using this season. HOWEVER, the roof terrace location was never on top of any real brownstone in Brooklyn or anywhere. They used the top of Silvercup Studios in Queens (where they film the episode interiors), hence the views of the 59th Street/Queensboro Bridge and Manhattan. I suspect they won't change that this season.

I guess so.

 

I believe Brooklyn Heights is actually around 6 miles from Silvercup, and so of course overlooks the Brooklyn Bridge (and downtown Manhattan as opposed to Midtown).  So I guess it's those rooftop vistas from the episodes that are confusing trying to track the supposed location of the Brownstone.  The street level and rooftop represent two totally different areas, and they just assumed (maybe with some justification) that nobody would really care.

 

In the actual Brooklyn Heights though I don't think any actual local streets face the river directly (the way Riverside Drive does in Manhattan).  Actually wait..  here, you can see it yourself (the order is River, Brooklyn Bridge Park/Riverside Piers, Brooklyn Queen Expressway, then trees backing up buildings, THEN streets--from the actual street level you'd never see the River... (the image below is just one patch, but it's the similar both north and south of it).

 

yljmd9P.jpg

 

So buildings on both sides of the street at street level actually seems realistic.

Edited by Kromm

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As long as Mycroft doesn't come back, I don't care who they introduce.

 

I despise Joan's wardrobe and find it impossible to take a woman dressed like that seriously. At least she's not as bad as Belle on Once Upon a Time, but that's a low bar indeed. Kitty's outfit seemed much more practical and comfortable to me.

 

The new boyfriend...is he an Arkin?

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Well, I did like the episode, although I think it has more to do with the acting than the writing, because I think a lot of this episode just didn't make any sense.

 

I need to echo what others have said about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Season 1 was an absolute gem because every character seemed to have their own layers and personal struggles and yet they interacted and weaved in together seamlessly. The writers had a central goal- crafting a redemption story for Sherlock- and it worked out masterfully in the end, with Holmes bettering his archnemesis Moriarty in the end. It was wonderful, all of it, making the season as classic a season of TV as there ever was one.

 

Then it seems like they wanted S2 to be more of a procedural than a story. This might not have been a bad idea in principle, and I think we had quite a few "classic" cases, but doing that contrasted with the character-based stuff we got last year. Especially considering what happened in this episode, what could have happened in S2 was make it the story of Watson's growth as a detective- sure they paid quite a bit of lip service to it last year but I don't think they did enough. They just haphazardly put that story together in between other haphazard stories (the ones with the Commissioner and Mycroft), providing no coherence and kind of just pulling an independent Watson out of their behinds without really properly establishing it.

 

So then we get to this episode, and it's pretty clear from the outset they've stylized it so that we know that Watson still needs Holmes, without actually saying so. Last year, Watson and Holmes solved the most elaborate and impossible of cases in mere days yet here Watson seemingly can get no leads in months. Seriously? Where did all of her skills go? Hunting lizards? Then Holmes solves the case so easily...how come Watson didn't come up with any of those clues? It seems like to me they want us to know that Watson is just as arrogant as Holmes is only that she's overconfident on her own abilities, the implications of which I'm not sure I would enjoy. However, if this comes with some growth for the characters where they're both able to check their egos and aren't afraid to ask each other for help I'll be okay with it, since arrogance is a very human trait and if it's written well, Watson's arrogance can be a good story. I just need to see how it would play out first.

 

(Corollary...kind of rolled my eyes at the "stick fight" between Watson and Kitty, since I wondered how long it would take for "martial arts" Lucy Liu to show up...although it was a nice way to reveal who Kitty was really working for)

 

Kitty...she was cute, and tougher than she looked. I also think it's obvious what kind of "dark secret" she's hiding- she's a former junkie, and Holmes took her in to help her get clean. Why else would Sherlock take an interest? He wouldn't gain a sense of selflessness in six months, would he? No, Kitty reminded him of himself, so he took her in. I see no other explanation.

 

The case was strange- I wondered about the mechanics, and I think the show has gone from "somewhat plausible" to pure science fiction. Really? Super magnets behind an elevator? With bullets that get released at the press of a button? In an elevator car that has no wireless reception to speak of? I get that the guy transported the magnet in pieces, but I kind of doubt he'd be able to fit the magnet in two suitcases and then carry them (even if they're wheeled, one ton is a lot to wheel). Not to mention the other implausibility, that no one noticed some guy putting together a magnet inside the elevator well. The thing weighed one ton, it's not exactly something you can haul and build discreetly. Wouldn't it take at least an hour to build? I'm also surprised no one noticed him hiding bullets inside the elevator itself...even if he was careful not to do his work with others in the elevator, he'd have been in that elevator for a while and someone would have noticed.

 

...and one other thing...what hotel has only one elevator? That's an awful amount of luck that the intended target hit the elevator the assassin needed her to hit. Oh, and that she wouldn't go in said elevator with bodyguards surrounding her...too many coincidences to be believable.

 

Main thing, though, is how this show will play Sherlock/Kitty and Watson...I think it's a dangerous proposition to have two cases on the show each week, because then neither will get the development it deserves, and I'd hate for the show to prefer one side over the other. Why can't Sherlock and Watson just be equals, working together? Makes more sense than to have some contrived separation that we know won't last.

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 I don't understand the pissy, bitchy,cold Joan who seems to have lost any and all caring for Sherlock.

I don't think it's at all that Joan lost any caring for Sherlock - very much the opposite. She thinks he doesn't really care about her, so she's not going to let on that she still cares for him. She has too much pride for that. He completely dropped out of her life for eight months, and then when he came back he kept saying things that implied that she was disposable, replaceable. She asked him at the end why he's back in New York, and again the answer she got was one that had nothing to do with her. But of course, he has his pride too.

 

They'll sort it out. I'm not worried.

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(Corollary...kind of rolled my eyes at the "stick fight" between Watson and Kitty, since I wondered how long it would take for "martial arts" Lucy Liu to show up...although it was a nice way to reveal who Kitty was really working for)

So two women can have a stick fight in the middle of New York City without a crowd circling around them? and without a 911 call and the police arriving? isn't every New York street now surrounded by survilleance cameras?  If not, what a country!

Kitty...she was cute, and tougher than she looked. I also think it's obvious what kind of "dark secret" she's hiding- she's a former junkie, and Holmes took her in to help her get clean. Why else would Sherlock take an interest? He wouldn't gain a sense of selflessness in six months, would he? No, Kitty reminded him of himself, so he took her in. I see no other explanation.

This.  But I would add that there is a reason that Sherlock adopted this particular junkie.  Guilt because he botched something, maybe during his using days. and left her widowed or orphaned?  My guess (and I already mentioned this upthread) is that she is somebody's love child. Watson would probably get most hooked in if it was Mycroft's, so I am routing for that.

 

Sherlock misses Watson and her presence in the Brownstone.  That was clearest to me in the scene where Sherlock threw Kitty's filed papers on the floor and said, "do it again."  That's what Watson said to Sherlock when she threw his rack of padlocks on the floor (which, by the way, he was fiddling with this episode.)

 

I loved that Watson had a wall of crazy in her living room.  Sherlock noticed it, right?

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Count me as someone who likes Watson's clothes. They don't need a lot of care, they're comfortable, easy to put on or take off, easily fit over the combination of long tshirt and boxers she usually sleeps in, and don't restrict movement. Perfect.

 

Joan has worn some very attractive outfits and they are very on-trend, but I can't stand the dresses that look like baggy, extra-long t-shirts. The outfit she was wearing when she and Sherlock were in the hotel room is a perfect example. Especially with bare legs, I get the feeling that a slight breeze will show us if she's got a belly button piercing. At least throw a belt on it.

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I agree that Mycrof/Watson shenanigans were stupid and good riddance of him. However, to be honest, I'd treat someone who stopped being a client, claimed to be a partner and a friend if they pulled such an act on me, even colder. It must have hurt (2 years) and Sherlock already has this "I am amazing, i can do no wrong, everyone will grovel at the sight of me" attitude for which some cold shoulder is the needed reaction. Also... if someone said "I didn't need you... I needed to have to teach someone" I'd be even more pissed, not mollified.

 

The means to the killing were ridicolous but it was entertaining. The Kitty business was a bit forced but there is time to develop it better.

Gregson has a lot of sound reasons to prefer to work with someone like Watson: calm, reliable, intelligent, people person, who knows how to act around people. Yes, ok, not Sherlock genius, but she manages the job just fine. I think that the reaction was quite natural and normal. I have worked with people similar as attitudes to that of Holmes... people don't like to be dependant on such people, it is irritating as all hell and the fact that you are not sure where you stand with them and that you can't really rely on them is a serious reason to turn to someone not as spectacular. :)

 

This is only the 1st episode, so, let us see.

 

Sherlock, the BBC show, sorry, no... the racism, the sexism, the fact that S.M. is the writer pushed me away and the train-wreck that the last season was... just no. I do no understand how anyone could like that abomination but oh, well... people are different but why not abstain from the whole comparison betweens shows, especially since the two shows have very different interpretations of Holmes. Also... boohoo, spare me the "one of the greatest friendships". Most of the stories/tv shows are about great male friendships, I can't be bothered to see ONE interpretation where the gender is changed and see it as this huuuge canon-break. I so don't understand why people can't have competent and intelligent and even backbone having Watson. Watson in Sherlock is such a push-over, I can't believe it. It is not healthy nor is good... the fact that it is treated as funny does not mean it is funny.

Edited by Eneya
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Yes, ok, not Sherlock genius, but she manages the job just fine.

Well, it appeared that she could manage the job just fine, but she had been working on the case for months and had not noticed the 2-ton elephant-magnet in the room.  It took Sherlock sitting in the bathroom to figure that out. 

 

Above poster, I agree with you, in real life, I try to rid myself of people who suck out my energy and always leave me unsure of where I stand' however, I am thinking that the powers here want us to believe that Watson and Gregson are better off with such a toxic, damaged character in their lives.

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Sherlock, the BBC show, sorry, no... the racism, the sexism, the fact that S.M. is the writer pushed me away and the train-wreck that the last season was... just no. I do no understand how anyone could like that abomination but oh, well... people are different but why not abstain from the whole comparison betweens shows, especially since the two shows have very different interpretations of Holmes. Also... boohoo, spare me the "one of the greatest friendships". Most of the stories/tv shows are about great male friendships, I can't be bothered to see ONE interpretation where the gender is changed and see it as this huuuge canon-break. I so don't understand why people can't have competent and intelligent and even backbone having Watson. Watson in Sherlock is such a push-over, I can't believe it. It is not healthy nor is good... the fact that it is treated as funny does not mean it is funny.

 

You know, I totally disagree about BBC Sherlock, but I appreciate this point.  I just started watching Elementary, and one of the things that fascinates me about this whole Sherlock Holmes story template is experimenting with what you can change and what must stay the same to actually have a Holmesian story rather than just a police procedural.  It seems Elementary might be riding the line, but it is just enough inside of it that I recognize that I'm watching a Sherlock Holmes story even if the main character were not named Sherlock Holmes.

 

One of the things I quite enjoyed about this episode was the fragility that seems apparent in Miller's portrayal of Holmes.  Even without having yet seen the previous two seasons in their entirety, I sense that this is a Holmes that has metaphorically fallen off the tightrope and doesn't want to do so again.  Very different from BBC Sherlock, who I don't think has yet had a dramatic failure that he needs to incorporate into his psyche.  

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I really enjoyed the first season of this show, and it lost me in the second season.  I tried to watch this first episode but the bitterness between Sherlock and everyone else is a turn off.  

 

I won't argue if it's warranted or not.  All I can hope is that it can lead to where they were at the end of season 1 and where I thought they'd go, which is some equal partnership where they both recognize that the other makes them a stronger person and investigator.  I'm not convinced that their partnership needed to devolve as it did because their relationship was the reason I started to enjoy this show more than BBC's Sherlock and it does feel like they broke something that didn't need fixing.  Or fixed something that didn't need fixing or however that saying goes :) I'll keep an ear to the ground hoping for spoilers that indicate that this tension will not last most of the season.  I'll be glad if they don't make it last more than a few episodes.  It's good for Watson to be independent and for Sherlock to be on his own.  I don't mind the idea of Kitty either, but I'm not keen on watching shows where there's prolonged tension between the two leads.  

Edited by Betweenthisandthat

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To be honest... this thing with the magnes was so absurd that there is some logic behind her not spotting it. Would YOU think about magnets? Also, I think Joan is the type of person to literally check the whole thing inch by inch, so I don't see it as Holmes sitting on the bench for her to look at it. :)

 

One miiinor nitpick... THAT is not how a baton fight goes. :) One aims to hit the other person... they were hitting their batons waaay too far away from their bodies... I know, I know... it is just kind of pissing me off. :)

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Maybe the boyfriend was on Homeland (I'm only up to Season 3) but he was also Katherine McPhee's boyfriend on Smash.  I had read that Joan would have a boyfriend but I wanted to see some buildup to the whole thing.  I hope he's not her boyfriend just yet.

 

I don't like Kitty either.  I don't like it when they bring in new girls to mess with relationships; especially since I loved Joan's and Sherlock's platonic friendship.

 

I also have read all of Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes.  I never compare tv/movies to the original source material.  As far as I am concerned it's apples and oranges.

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I am a bit curious to the whole "I hate newcomers, especially if they are female" attitude and I have observed in many, many shows... There is this idea that there could be only one cool female character and if there are more, they will steal the cool chick's thunder. It is extra irritating and quite sexist to be honest. Why not having more female regulars? Because outside of Mrs. Hudson, who kind of appeared twice in all... there are no other female characters outside of Lucy Liu but we have had a lot of male characters (or Moriarty counts since she was for a few episodes as well and there was this... pitting between the two, which I do think it was handled nice but I was a biiiiit iffy), regulars as well.

 

Any ideas?

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I'd totally go for this "Awesome Ladies Fight Crime" show, actually. The only thing I don't get is why the show is called Elementary and is featuring some hapless dude everybody hates named Sherlock Holmes in the first place.

 

So we had Moriarty that was brilliant enough to fool Sherlock Holmes himself. And we have Joan Watson who's obviously more awesome version of Sherlock Holmes (not only she's a genius detective but she has perfect social skills!) and it was her who brought Moriarty down, not Sherlock. And now we have another awesome female character that probably would be even more awesome that those ladies combined.

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Joan's outfits were the bomb, but the ankle boots and was that tennis shoes?  did her no favors. Her calves were really bulked up. Last season's were cuter and less minimalist to me.

 

I'm struggling with the ankle boots. As a short woman, I can say it only makes you look shorter and your legs stubbier. If they want to winter up her outfits, put her in real freaking boots.

Personally, I don't think ankle boots/"booties" flatter very many people.  You have to have really long, shapely legs to pull off that look, and worn with dresses or skirts, they can make even the most gorgeous woman look stumpy.  Ankle boots are a trend, however, and another year or two and they will be out of fashion again, and people will go back to wearing them more appropriately with pants. YMMV, of course.

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I was underwhelmed, but damn it, I missed these characters. Clyde!

 

I liked it for the acting, the styling, and yes some of Watson's wardrobe. I don't think many women can pull it off, but I think Lucy Liu doesn't make it too ridiculous. YMMV of couse.

 

I didn't hate Kitty either, but neither her or the boyfriend are not long for this show.

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Joan and Sherlock's partnership is what I love about this show so I hope that they make up soon, but part of me was glad that Joan did not immediately accept Sherlock's apology and reconcile with him right away. They had a partnership and a relationship and he essentially ran away which is a pretty crappy thing to do. One of the things I loathe on tv is when someone does something inconsiderate and they expect to be forgiven instantly. There are consequences for your actions. When you hurt someone's feelings, they are not obligated to let you back in just because you say you're sorry. It takes time for people to forgive you and get over their hurt. While I didn't love Joan shutting him out, I understand it and I think it's far more realistic than if she had said, "That's all water under the bridge - I'm just glad you're back!"

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I am a bit curious to the whole "I hate newcomers, especially if they are female" attitude and I have observed in many, many shows...

 

I hate this trend and it happens a lot.  It's pretty sick.  As if there can only be one woman on a show and if there are more they need to be ousted as soon as possible.  There can be twenty men on a show but God forbid there are two women.  A man is usually at the center of this.  Sherlock has Kitty and I that's supposed to be a threat to Sherlock and Watson I guess because Watson is the only woman Sherlock should work with.   

 

I'd much prefer all three of them working together.  More women the better as far as I'm concerned.  I don't like that Sherlock and Watson are on the outs because the root of their problem feels inorganic but as much as I want their relationship restored to a balance between then I see no reason why Sherlock can't mentor someone else who can also learn from Watson.  My fantasy would for Kitty to find some way to bond with both of them in different ways.  I don't need a show just about women or just about men.  I'm perfectly happy with a show about men and women and whoever else working together to fight crime and not necessarily each other.

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I could totally picture Joan bonding with Kitty about how crazy Sherlock's training methods can be and eventually becoming a second mentor to her (which could then make Sherlock jealous). I don't think the relationship has to be combative but that right now Joan is standoffish about all things Sherlock so it will take time for her to build any kind of relationship with Kitty.

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Yes!!! This should be A THING. Ahem.. I spend like... 20 minutes on tumblr and damn it is rubbing on pretty quickly. :)

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I got the feeling it wasn't just the note that Joan was pissed about, it was a slow burn last season of Sherlock and Joan figuring out each other's boundaries. Especially the last half of the season. I think this is just the culmination. And I got the feeling that Joan was working towards warming back up to him.

 

Agreed. Though I found it difficult to watch Joan being so cold to Sherlock, it was deserved at first - she was angry with him and this was the first time she saw him in months after being left a 5-sentence note. I did think the full frostiness went on too long; by the time he brought the hangers to her apartment, I thought she could have defrosted a little more than we were shown. But I did think by the end of the episode we'd seen a very gradual softening, enough that I think they'll soon be back to their banter and more comfortable intellectual discourse (I haven't seen this week's ep yet so don't tell me if that's true or not!). 

 

One thing I thought was painful was that Sherlock talked about how he didn't miss her, he missed their mentor-student relationship. I thought that was kind of mean - he was basically saying, I don't really miss YOU personally; I'll just rebuild that kind of relationship with someone else. But as this season goes on and he reconnects with Joan, I'm hoping that Sherlock will realize that he did miss Joan as a person, as a friend and confidante, and that that relationship cannot be recreated. He can create something else, he can be a mentor, but each relationship is different and special (or disastrous, or frustrating, or wonderful) in its own way. What he has with Kitty can be rewarding, but it will not be the same as what he had with Joan.

 

So two women can have a stick fight in the middle of New York City without a crowd circling around them? and without a 911 call and the police arriving? isn't every New York street now surrounded by survilleance cameras?  If not, what a country!

 

In this day and age? People would probably see that going on and think they were watching a show being put on. Only when blood was drawn or if it went far beyond what looks like entertainment would they realize it was real and maybe call the police.

P.S. Gina Gershon reminded me very strongly of Raquel Welch in this episode. Beautiful and elegant. (Though in this character's case, evil too. LOL.)

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In this day and age? People would probably see that going on and think they were watching a show being put on.

Cell phones would be whipped out to video it and post it online.
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Cell phones would be whipped out to video it and post it online.

 

And the audio heard in the background of the youtube video would be something like, "Holy crap, I can't believe you're getting this on film! Isn't anyone gonna help that woman? Keep filming, dude..."

Still... I did think Lucy looked badass wielding that stick. I hope she gets to do more action sequences, as long as they're not outside the realm of what Watson learned in training or basic defense classes - I don't want to see her being all superhuman.

Edited by sinkwriter

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I actually walked by them setting up for the filming of the stick fight.

It was early in the morning. If I was later to work I would have seen the fight!

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