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Hollidaysburg and Not Cool: The Movies Thread


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As much as it pains me to do so, I have to agree with Shane that Anna had producer connections before joining the show and making her movie.

Yes, Shane has a larger fanbase, but Anna already knew Neal & Co. One could argue that she shouldn't have been able to participate on that alone.

To me, Shane still doesn't get it.

 

1. How could Anna's connection with Zach and Neal be considered an advantage when they have no say in who wins? He also leaves out that he himself was working on a seperate product with Chris Moore before being selected for the Chair, so this whole thing about producer connections is a non-issue.

2. I can't believe he is trying to play the victim just because a couple of producers hated his film and decided to campaign and promote the other person.

3. Shane always talked about how his audience consists of mostly teens (even mentioning that in the test screening episode that their opinions on his film mattered most) so the producers reiterating this isn't them insulting an entire age-group, but more about how Shane's narrow focus ended up hurting the end-product. Entertainment aimed towards kids doesn't have to be juvenile.

Edited by quangtran
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3. Shane always talked about how his audience consists of mostly teens (even mentioning that in the test screening episode that their opinions on his film mattered most) so the producers reiterate this isn't them insulting an entire age-group, but more about how Shane's narrow focus ended up hurting the end-product. Entertainment aimed towards kids doesn't have to be juvenile.

Shane seems to have an ambivalent relationship with his established audience. He likes to be liked, but seems a little embarassed by who likes him and how little their regard matters. (His speech in episode 10 about going from an adoring audience of tweens to a gas station where he was still a nobody was very telling). He contradicted himself several times about what he really wanted, but I do think he wanted a broader audience and was dismayed that it didn't happen.

 

Does anyone think that $4.99 was too steep for the online streams? I paid it for Hollidaysburg without regret, but I do wonder if they would have gotten more than twice as many paid rentals if they had cut that price in half. I know iTunes is pretty rigid about pricing, I wonder if they had to charge that to get on iTunes (it was the Amazon price as well).

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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To me, Shane still doesn't get it.

 

1. How could Anna's connection with Zach and Neal be concidered an advantage when they have no say in who wins? He also leaves out that he himself was working on a seperate product with Chris Moore before being slected for the Chair, so this whole thing about producer connections is a non-issue.

2. I can't believe he is trying to play the victim just because a couple of producers hated his film and decided to campain and promote the other person.

 

Then again, #2 answers #1 : the producers Anna was friends with ended up hating Shane's movie (what a surprise !) and campaigning against him, publicly stating that his movie was shit, and that Anna should win the competition. It clearly can be seen a biased behaviour. Whereas Chris Moore didn't went one way or the other post-competition. (granted, it had no effect on the competition, but still)

 

As far as Shane goes, though, I really have trouble figuring him out. On his podcasts with Lauren, he seems fine, if a bit snarky ; on Youtubers react, he acts like a self-entitled, cynical & sarcastic douche, always playing the "i'm above all that" card ; on The Chair, he appeared either relatively competent & professionnal, or a childish brat ; in interviews, he seems more poised & reined in ; on his youtube vids, he's loud, obnoxious, and trying to go South Park by offending everyone ; and supposedly, IRL, he's a shy, introverted guy.

 

One thing is sure, though, he's giving me a headache.

Edited by Kaoteek
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is speech in episode 10 about going from an adoring audience of tweens to a gas station where he was still a nobody was very telling

 

Yes, exactly. I thought that statement distilled his personality and goals into one strange story. He wants to be famous first and a film maker second. Maybe he does want to be Bieber.

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Then again, #2 answers #1 : the producers Anna was friends with ended up hating Shane's movie (what a surprise !) and campaigning against him, publicly stating that his movie was shit, and that Anna should win the competition. It clearly can be seen a biased behaviour. Whereas Chris Moore didn't went one way or the other post-competition. (granted, it had no effect on the competition, but still)

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I think that's a little unfair. Quinto expressed reservations about Shane's taste level early on, and stressed the importance of making Pittsburgh look like a good place to make movies, which he had to feel was completely ignored. That's an embarrassing conversation to have to have with the local people he went to for contributions/investment (not sure what the exact funding model was). And objectively, Shane's movie is terrible, people do take their names off projects that go to shit, and Neal Dodson's controversial blog entry was not a personal attack on Shane and encouraged people to see both films, make up their own minds, and vote. 

 

Maybe Quinto was biased, and even a prude, but at the end of the day, Shane did not make another American Pie.

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And I never said he did or that Not Cool is even a good movie.

 

But Quinto & co knew perfectly well what Shane was bringing to the table with his work : crude, offensive humor, and tons of fans. They read his script, they knew how the movie would turn out, and suddenly, right when the show needs some publicity to drum up votes & media attention, they disavow the movie as if it was much more offensive than what they had signed for, and they start campaigning for their friend Anna.

 

All that tells me is that Quinto & co tried to have the best of both worlds : on one hand, launch Anna's career, make some cash with the tv show & the movies, capitalize on Shane Dawson's online popularity, and promote the city... and on the other hand, keep their hands clean of potential Dawson-related racism/homophobia/etc controversy by denouncing the movie just prior to its release, thus drumming up even more publicity for the project.

 

Without even taking the quality of Shane's movie into account, there's something that feels very disingenuous in that last-minute outrage & controversy.

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But Quinto & co knew perfectly well what Shane was bringing to the table with his work : crude, offensive humor, and tons of fans

No, I think they thought with Cris Moore's guidance that Shane would turn out this generation's American Pie.  Or maybe the art house style disgusting that John Waters used to make Baltimore famous.  When the first cut was done - they saw what it was.  I think the article was an attempt to distance themselves from Shane in the real movie community.  They want to work again.

 

Disingenuous is Shane still acting like he doesn't have a prior relationship with CMoore.  He says that on twitter all the time.  Anna knew the producers.  Yes Shane and you knew CMoore.  Now he's cut and edited a piece where Quinto is saying  something was funny along with Quinto saying something was disgusting.  And THIS is proof!  Yeah right Shane.  Stick to 13 year olds because reality tv has taught me about edits so I don't know what you're selling.  And cyberbullying?  There was one joke by Victor at Shane's expense.  One tweet deleted.  Kinda like the joke IN Shane's movie about Quinto's eyebrows.

 

He's an entitled little boy.  He needs to grow up.  He needs to be self-aware enough that when he sees his selective memory telling him lies, 'I never yelled at anyone', that he attempts better.  And right to the final cut he wants everyone to pinkie swear not to say anything bad to him about what he wants.  Let's just give all the little kids a medal for participating.  Winners make losers feel bad.

 

Ack, I just can't with him.  And all this is after I watched 9 episodes.  It was his twitter behavior, his shading of the truth, his juvenile whining that turned me off.

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If it was for a film that isn't currently sitting at zero on metacritic, then I could accept the Quinto and co's rejection of Not Cool could be due to bias. But given the scathing reviews from everyone who wasn't friends with Shane, it seems like Quinto was the only person on that table with any sense to not want this film on their resume. Besides, him taking his name off the film really isn't any different from the many other people who we saw reject the project out of sheer disgust, from the actors who refused to audition or the tattoo parlor owner who didn't want her shop name in the credits.

 

Also, it doesn't seem like Quinto was ever a fan of Shane's work (and Shane could sense this despite their limited interactions), and I get the sense that if it was completely up to him, he wouldn't have chosen Shane for this project.

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But that's the whole point, isn't it ? Shane wasn't chosen because anyone behind The Chair was a fan of his work, he was chosen because he's popular online, and the production team hoped it would translate into tickets sales, online buzz, and media attention.

 

Now that they got those ticket sales, that online buzz, that media attention, pretending that "OMG his work is so vulgar and offensive we had to take our names off of this project" strikes me a insincere ploy to create more buzz & controversy. Cos, again, from the beginning of this project, everybody and their mother, whether online, on these boards, IRL, in the movie business, knew what Shane Dawson was gonna end up delivering. Pretending otherwise just feels bogus to me.

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His speech in episode 10 about going from an adoring audience of tweens to a gas station where he was still a nobody was very telling.

Yes, exactly. I thought that statement distilled his personality and goals into one strange story. He wants to be famous first and a film maker second. Maybe he does want to be Bieber.

When he started that story, I thought he was finally showing some mature self-awareness. When he got to the gas station part, I thought he was going to talk about the loneliness or isolation of having fans. But then he just said that he's "nobody" at home, or out pumping gas. Oh, Shane. Stick to YouTube. You're somebody there. Bieber indeed.

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Now that they got those ticket sales,

What sales? Not Cool is not a financial success. The shows without a personal appearance by him did not sell many tickets. It's not clear that Shane's fans even helped the Chair's ratings. 

 

Moore himself said, that Shane's status as a you tube success was a new approach to try and get a financially successful film out of the series, and it didn't pan out. 

 

Shane got to make a film, with final cut, and a $250,000 payday at the end. He was not ill-used by this process.

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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But that's the whole point, isn't it ? Shane wasn't chosen because anyone behind The Chair was a fan of his work, he was chosen because he's popular online, and the production team hoped it would translate into tickets sales, online buzz, and media attention.

I don't know if it's accurate to say the producers weren't fans of his work. There were a lot of producers involved in this, and as I remember, a lot of them were shown yucking it up at the screening, giving positive comments afterwards. Only Quinto and Dodson disliked the movie so much they asked to get their names removed, but even their partner (was it Corey Moosa?) said he liked it and was proud of it. To me, it was drek, but if they didn't think so, maybe they like his YouTube stuff, too.

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@ Latverian Diplomat :

 

He wasn't ill-used. He was used, though, for his status as a web celebrity, with everything that entails, as you yourself mention in your post.

 

Now, given that both films bombed (which was, honestly, predictable), the experience has clearly failed. But - and that's I've been arguing all this time - the outrage from Quinto & his partner, in the last leg of the competition, just felt disingenuous, forced & manipulative, and it bothered me.

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Now, given that both films bombed (which was, honestly, predictable), the experience has clearly failed. But - and that's I've been arguing all this time - the outrage from Quinto & his partner, in the last leg of the competition, just felt disingenuous, forced & manipulative, and it bothered me.

I thought Zachary's reaction was real. And how can I not, when I felt the exact same way, as did so many critics. Even though he read the script and knew of Shane's background and taste level, isn't it possible that he expected Shane to use this opportunity to do more mature work? Esp. since Shane stated this as one of his goals? To not be stymied and stuck to making YouTube videos forever.

I will say, however, that his partner's campaign to vote for Team Anna was totally inappropriate. I understand all the reasoning behind wanting their names removed from Shane's movie. But they (at least Neil) went a step farther by trying to get the win for Anna. It might have been ok if all the producers said that this kind of support (or lack of support) was part of the process and experiment from the beginning. But of course it wasn't.

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@ Latverian Diplomat :

 

He wasn't ill-used. He was used, though, for his status as a web celebrity, with everything that entails, as you yourself mention in your post.

 

 

I don't call that used, I call that having something on your resume that gets your foot in the door. The only time he was ever treated any differently than Anna was when Quinto and Dodson pulled their credit and made their preferences known publicly (which the documentary made inevitable anyway). He got the same budget, the same resources, the same support from the producers that were actually involved in making the films. He had incredible artistic freedom. He was a fully-fledged participant, not a side-show to help draw attention to Anna's work.

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I will say, however, that his partner's campaign to vote for Team Anna was totally inappropriate. I understand all the reasoning behind wanting their names removed from Shane's movie. But they (at least Neil) went a step farther by trying to get the win for Anna. It might have been ok if all the producers said that this kind of support (or lack of support) was part of the process and experiment from the beginning. But of course it wasn't.

I actually thought Dodson's blog entry was an improvement over what was coming across from the documentary. In particular, he made it clear that Shane was not gaming the contest, was treating Anna with respect, and that he just didn't like Shane's movie and thought the better movie should win the contest. There was no way to keep the dispute under wraps, sometimes it's better to spell things out in a thoughtful way than to trust people to put the pieces together on their own.

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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I actually thought Dodson's blog entry was an improvement over what was coming across from the documentary. In particular, he made it clear that Shane was not gaming the contest, was treating Anna with respect, and that he just didn't like Shane's movie and thought the better movie should win the contest. There was no way to keep the dispute under wraps, sometimes it's better to spell things out in a thoughtful way that to trust people to put the pieces together on their own.

I don't have a problem with Dodson wanting to express his (and Quinto's) POV in a different forum, and I agree it was thoughtful and well-written. My problem was with two things - the timing, and the "vote for Anna" campaign. When he and Quinto signed on to this project, they were in essence supporting two indie films getting made, as well as the contest and doc. Halfway through, they decided to withdraw their support for one participant. You can't change the rules of the game once the game starts! Like I wrote in another post, I understand (and agree) with their reasoning for wanting their names removed from Shane's movie, and even the reasons the doc included this footage, as that's a very truthful reality to movie-making. But entering into the competition aspect of the project wasnt part of the deal, and certainly isn't commonplace in Hollywood, as this kind of thing has never been done before. I think he should have waited to write and post his viewpoint on the dispute 'til the voting was over if his sole goal was to articulate his views. But of course he also wanted to effect the outcome, which I thought was unprofessional, and again, against the rules.

Edited by LotusFlower
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I don't have a problem with Dodson wanting to express his (and Quinto's) POV in a different forum, and I agree it was thoughtful and well-written. My problem was with two things - the timing, and the "vote for Anna" campaign. When he and Quinto signed on to this project, they were in essence supporting two indie films getting made, as well as the contest and doc. Halfway through, they decided to withdraw their support for one participant. You can't change the rules of the game once the game starts! Like I wrote in another post, I understand (and agree) with their reasoning for wanting their names removed from Shane's movie, and even the reasons the doc included this footage, as that's a very truthful reality to movie-making. But entering into the competition aspect of the project wasnt part of the deal, and certainly isn't commonplace in Hollywood, as this kind of thing has never been done before. I think he should have waited to write and post his viewpoint on the dispute 'til the voting was over if his sole goal was to articulate his views. But of course he also wanted to effect the outcome, which I thought was unprofessional, and again, against the rules.

 

This was kind of my whole issue with it. I have no problem with Neal and Zachary wanting to remove their names as Shane's executive producers. I imagine that doing that is not entirely unusual in Hollywood. For what it's worth, I agree with what Zachary had been saying from the get go. I agreed with what Neal wrote, but the timing of it kind of bothered me because it felt unprofessional.

 

I didn't like Shane's movie. At all. I liked two of the actress' performances. Those performances saved Shane's movie from being a complete shitbomb. I knew he wasn't going to pull off another American Pie, but everyone involved knew what he was making. Perhaps he should have let Lauren make more decisions, since she might have been able to "save" it in even the smallest sense. Lauren strikes me as someone who knows what's she doing and it's a shame that Shane was assy to her during half the competition.

 

I liked Anna's movie. I've seen better versions of her movie from other directors, but as a first time director's project and a very limited budget? I think she did very well. She has a voice. One that I'd like to see churning out another film, one with a bigger budget, perhaps.

 

I didn't like Victor's input despite his own professional successes. The triad they had going rubbed me the wrong way. Anna and Shane were chosen to direct these movies. Not Shane and Anna/Victor/Phil. She should aim to be more independent because I can tell she's got the talent and doesn't need to run every decision past Los Quinaz.

 

I haven't paid close attention to the Twitter drama, but from what I gathered Victor was the one who started the bashing, right? I know Shane has hardcore young fans who are passionate about him, but I recall someone here saying that Shane told his fans to lay off Anna & Co. If that's true, then he gets points for taking the higher road. I looked at Anna's Twitter and didn't see any nastiness coming from her either. Also, I thought Anna was a gracious loser. If I had been her and my film lost to that piece of crap film, I'm not sure I could be that cordial.

Edited by Surrealist
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I didn't like Victor's input despite his own professional successes. The triad they had going rubbed me the wrong way. Anna and Shane were chosen to direct these movies. Not Shane and Anna/Victor/Phil. She should aim to be more independent because I can tell she's got the talent and doesn't need to run every decision past Los Quinaz.

I feel exactly the same way. In fact, even though I was firmly on Team Anna, one thing that really bothered me was how Victor claimed how much the win would mean for "them," and about all the things that "they" could do in film with the prize money. Wait a minute - Los Quinaz won? I thought I voted for Anna Martemucci! Yea, yea, I know they're a team, and maybe a good one, but I felt it was another of The Chair's misrepresentations. Since I'm an over 30 y.o. that Shane doesn't care about, I tuned into the show not knowing who either of them were, and buying the premise that it was two first-time directors at the helm of the same script, etc., etc... Turns out it was really YouTube superstar Shane Dawson vs. a writing and directing team from L.A., and Anna was picked because she's the lone female of the team.

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I know Shane has hardcore young fans who are passionate about him, but I recall someone here saying that Shane told his fans to lay off Anna & Co. If that's true, then he gets points for taking the higher road.

Yea, but in a really passive-aggressive way. Similar to how he said in the last episode that he was going to take the high road in regard to Quinto's withdrawal, and then proceeded to rip him apart, all in the same breath.

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Shane waited for a bit as well. You know like 8 hours after they started yipping he told them to stop it. Then the second Victor made a joke at his expense Shane started with the cyber bully and we're too classy for that. Victor just wasn't sophisticated enough to see the set up. There was a lot of the standard stuff you see when folks think they're entitled and you're not. Before the finale he warned all his girls that people were going to be really mad at him and say hateful things but they should not engage cuz they were classier than that. I watched and I didn't see anything on Shane's feed. It looked like no one cared.

Just out of no where, anyone skeeved at 25 year old Shane signing boobs on 15 year olds?

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Just out of no where, anyone skeeved at 25 year old Shane signing boobs on 15 year olds?

 

I was skeeved out that that many teens like him. I'm picturing myself as a teenager and I would have completely ignored his crap.

 

I'm not sure how to take Shane. Sometimes he bugs me and sometimes he doesn't.

 

As much as Anna's anal retentive nature annoyed me, in the end, I liked her the best.

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 Turns out it was really YouTube superstar Shane Dawson vs. a writing and directing team from L.A., and Anna was picked because she's the lone female of the team.

Very minor nitpick. Anna & company are from NYC. Shane lives in LA (he grew up in Long Beach).

 

I also think that Anna had every opportunity to fly solo, but chose not to. A major theme of the Chair was depicting that choice in a very unflattering way--not that I disagree that it should have been unflattering.

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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They might orginally be from NY, but I think they've been in LA for a few years now. Plus, didn't we see Anna flying to and from LA a few times over the course of the series?

I think the only feature film Team Quinaz has done is "Breakup at a Wedding," and that was directed by Victor. They've done a lot of shorts, though, so maybe Anna directed some of those. If Anna prefers working with her husband, or with a team, there's nothing wrong with that. It was just a little off-putting to read Victor's tweets or comments about how much the win would mean for "them" as future filmmakers.

*originally, not ordinarily! Sorry.

Edited by LotusFlower
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They might ordinarily be from NY, but I think they've been in LA for a few years now. Plus, didn't we see Anna flying to and from LA a few times over the course of the series?

 

Yeah she edited in NY but their house was definitely in LA. According to her twitter they split time between NY and LA.

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Not Cool...I have to agree with most.  A gross raunchy, unfunny bottom of the barrel movie.  The worst I have seen this year and deserves it's zero rating.

 

I have to agree with most of the negative comments about Shane, so I won't dump on him anymore.  But, it would interesting to see him direct a PG movie.  It seems like to me he hides behind all the raunchiness, to hide all his insecurities.

 

Hollidaysburg...I did like it.  Miles better than its competition.  I liked the look and the actors were competent.  And I thought Anna did a good job directing.  I'll give it a 5.5.

 

It really is a travesty of justice that Not Cool won.  I don't think the judging process was explicitly stated before the competition began and their system was bad as American Idol when competitors like Sanjaya were in the top 10.

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