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S29.E06: Make Some Magic Happen


Tara Ariano
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I think it is all about alliances and they felt more comfortable with Missy and Baylor.  Jon knew Missy from his tribe and clearly Jackie  mended her fence with Baylor.  No one liked Dale so Kelly was expendable since no alliance with them was possible.  Better to get her out first since she is an comp threat.

 

 

I understand this, but I was very irritated with Jacklyn's logic.  Dale's an asshole, so Kelley must be too.  Yet Baylor already betraying Jacklyn did not reflect on the possibility that her mother Missy lacked loyalty as well.

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Probst alluded to losing the rice in Australia.  Interesting that he didn't bring up Brandon Hantz throwing all his tribe's food away.  That got replaced.

 

The whole thing with the rice reminded me that I don't remember what happened when J'Tia poured out the rice. Was it replaced?

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The whole thing with the rice reminded me that I don't remember what happened when J'Tia poured out the rice. Was it replaced?

 

They replaced it but at the same cost of losing everything except the things they started with and that happened in Australia, as well.  

Edited by wings707
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I don't remember it that way. J'Tia left a little bit of rice in the bag (probably not intentionally) and at least once in the days following they showed them talking about how little they had left. The shift from three to two tribes happened less than a week later, so I think they just made do with what was left until the new tribes were formed.

Edited by fishcakes
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I don't remember it that way. J'Tia left a little bit of rice in the bag (probably not intentionally) and at least once in the days following they showed them talking about how little they had left. The shift from three to two tribes happened less than a week later, so I think they just made do with what was left until the new tribes were formed.

 

 

I googled this and that is what I found.  I don't remember. 

Edited by wings707
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I think it is all about alliances and they felt more comfortable with Missy and Baylor.  Jon knew Missy from his tribe and clearly Jackie  mended her fence with Baylor.

 

Didn't Jon and Jacklyn also talked about wanting to align with someone who would do better in challenges?  Or maybe they wanted someone who wouldn't do well in challenges down the line.  I don't really see much of a difference in Dale/Kelley and Missy/Baylor's abilities though, so maybe I am thinking of someone else.

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You can survive a looooooong time without food, like around 20 days.  You can't go very long without water.  Jeremy was 100% right.  Plus, based on what they've shown, the Hunapoos haven't even been looking for food.  Try to fish, look for edible plants (Sue Hawk and her tapioca quest), bugs, crabs, clams, birds, etc.

Exactly. Jeremy said something in one of his confessionals about how they could get by without rice by foraging or catching food. I don't know how much they had done up to that point (though relying on rice as their sole food source would certainly explain how they blazed through it so quickly), but the fact that he seemed to think it was an option and the fact that John Rocker caught fish for his tribe (without fishing gear, though he was on a different beach) says to me that it probably was.

 

Keeping the tarp & hoping to win rewards is a gamble. Not all rewards are food. What would have happened if they didn't win or the reward wasn't food. I think food trumps comfort, you can live without a blanket & hammock, you can't live with out food.

The way I see it is that if they lost the reward or it wasn't food, then they'd be—at most—about eight days from the merge and would either have to go without food (not pleasant, but they could do it) or get their own during that time. The producers of the show aren't going to let anyone die of starvation, much less seven people and if things got really bad, my guess is that they'd merge the tribes sooner than planned (while waiting until the originally planned point to start the jury) and replenish food supplies then. I agree that the hammock and blankets are expendable, but I think the tarp makes a major difference to everyone's quality of life out there—more than a few scoops of rice per day does.

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You can survive a looooooong time without food, like around 20 days.  You can't go very long without water.  Jeremy was 100% right.  Plus, based on what they've shown, the Hunapoos haven't even been looking for food.  Try to fish, look for edible plants (Sue Hawk and her tapioca quest), bugs, crabs, clams, birds, etc.

 

Probst alluded to losing the rice in Australia.  Interesting that he didn't bring up Brandon Hantz throwing all his tribe's food away.  That got replaced.

 

I watched a show earlier in the day called Dual Survivor.  It featured two US Senators (Flake from AZ and Heinrich (?) from NM) who spent a week marooned on an island in the Marshall Is.  They got in late and in a few hours before nightfall managed to make a waterproof shelter by weaving palm fronds together.

 

You lose your tarp and rainclouds are on the horizon, get off your duffs and get a roof over your heads.  

 

If they only needed to survive, perhaps so.  But they also need to play the game.  They need energy to perform challenges.  Without that, they can get Pagonged, which is pretty much what happened to Coyopa.  Editing made Missy look bad because of this.  First she apparently was one of the food gluttons at Hunahpu, giving her tribe and herself a big advantage; then, just when their food has about run out, instead of having to pay the price she gets shuffled over to the other tribe, where she continues on with her big-eating ways. 

 

I strongly disagreed with Jeremy.  Food is the number one item IMO.  Hard though that night was, it was better than not having the energy to do well at challenges, or even think as clearly. 

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I googled this and that is what I found.  I don't remember. 

 

You might be right and it may have happened off-screen. If it's true that they replaced the rice that Brandon dumped in FvF without showing it, it's possible that it happened in Cagayan as well.

 

As for this season, I'd rather have had the tarp than food, though. They're close to a merge, and I assume there's something out there they can eat until then. In terms of nutrition, there's not much difference between eating a little rice every day and eating nothing, and even with the rice, they're still hungry all the time. Just in terms of how they feel, I would think sleep is more important in the short term than food. Without the tarp, they're getting rained on and not sleeping and, if the rain is really bad, they wouldn't be able to cook rice anyway. Granted, I might be giving these people too much credit when you consider how lazy they seem to be. If they can't even throw a few palm fronds on the big hole in their roof, they're probably not going to be doing much foraging.

Edited by fishcakes
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I think Natalie might be MVP material. I'm biased because she was a Racer, but think about it: she sacrificed herself to Exile Island after gorging on the rice as a Hunahpu regular. She kept Julie in the game for Jeremy to use as a pawn. I know that I shouldn't give anybody too much credit, but I'm hoping Natalie did all that on purpose.

 

I have to agree that she's making some good moves. I detested the "twinnies" on AR, and came into this season hoping they were the first ones off the island. But, without her sister around, Natalie has been much more bearable to watch. As a result, I find that sometimes she surprises me with her game savvy. 

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I agree that no one's going to die out there for a week without food (and I fast regularly myself).  But I think the show would be open to lawsuits if they didn't guarantee (as in provide) at least 800 calories a day to the contestants because below that is considered to need medical supervision and supplements and can cause gall bladder damage. 

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I think Jeremy was annoyed that Reed and Josh were being so affectionate because it meant that they weren't at all scared about being targeted or seeming like a threat.

 

This is my personal interpretation of "They walk around like they own the place."  They're not scared to be seen as extremely tight and lovey dovey.  They're not worried about being voted out.  Jeremy says that if he and Val were together on the same tribe, they'd make an effort to not be overly affectionate towards each other, so people would kind of 'forget' how tight they are.  I tend to believe him.

But that doesn't make rational sense.  It would be better for Jeremy that they are acting immune from elimination because that helps to make them targets, which would be to Jeremy's betterment (since he has given up on Reed as an ally now that he's playing with Josh).  I think Jeremy has been hypersensitive to power dynamics throughout the season and is very threatened by not feeling in charge- whether over his wife, his perception that Rocker asserted control by voting out his wife, the rice situation, and the Reed/Josh dynamic.  How dare they feel so in control that they're not hiding their relationship!  I think Jeremy's insecurity in these moments compels him to act like a classic contrarian.  He is always going to disagree with the consensus because it insulates him from blame if things go wrong- he was right!  If things go well, no harm no foul.  This appears to be his personality, which would make him very difficult to live or work with.  At least it would to me.

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I'm not a huge Jeremy or Reed fan, but have we've seen any proof that they are allies? We saw almost none of the tribal dynamics in the original blue tribe. The one episode they went to tribal council Reed and Jeremy voted for different people.

Reed thought that Jeremy was an ally, and Natalie, as well, until they joined Missy, Kelley, and Julie in voting Drew out.  Till then, he'd thought that he, Drew, Jon, Jeremy, and Natalie were Hunahpu's main alliance.

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Man, screw Missy, she's got to go.  Seeing the price her former tribe had to pay for burning through their rice so quickly, while she skated off to another tribe where she proceeded to decimate their supply as well really, really pissed me off.

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This season has mostly bored me... none of the contestants interests me... so I didn't really follow why Jon/Jaclyn chose to stick with Missy and daughter over Dale and daughter.  Is anyone willing to explain the reason? 

 

 

Or the higher Goatential of Missy and/or Baylor?

After further thought, I've thought of a more substantial reason that relates to this answer.  We know before the swap, Jon was trying to rally together the people on Hunapu that still had a counterpart in the game and vote out a singleton.  This "pairs over singles" mentality stuck with him when he went to the pair heavy nuCoyopa.  And looking at the two other pairs, Missy and Baylor would seemingly both be easier to lead and beat than both Kelley and Dale.  Dale looked like a decent goat, but not Kelley.  She was more likely to work against Jon and Jaclyn than work with them.  Which also explains why she went first.  She was more of a threat.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Jon and Jaclyn are planning this: get their alliance of 4 to the F4, then one of them gets voted out at the F4TC, leaving the other sitting beside a pair of goats and with one guaranteed vote at FTC.

Edited by SVNBob
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Man, screw Missy, she's got to go.  Seeing the price her former tribe had to pay for burning through their rice so quickly, while she skated off to another tribe where she proceeded to decimate their supply as well really, really pissed me off.

 

Actually I congratulate her on her win-win luck.  Same goes for Jon.  And Kelly had it too until she got voted out.  They came from the smart tribe that used their food wisely to win challenges then lucked into even more food.  Good for them.

 

Rooting for Natalie (liked the Twins on both TARs) and she is playing a good game. 

 

Not just going to Exile Island to work Baylor but also to get a clue to an idol.  It doesn't seem either she or Baylor found one but at the time she wouldn't know that.  Far far better to get the clue for yourself then to have it wasted on Julie.  If Julie had gotten the clue and found the idol and their team had lost then -- according to Jeremy's fears of his alliance standing at only three with Reed possibly jumping ship --  it could have been a 50% chance Natalie would have gone home in that case.  Also she seems more closely allied with Jeremy than with Julie so if not her then her strongest ally, Jeremy, could have been gone in that scenario.

 

Right now Natalie for the win by a wide margin though I also like Jeremy and Baylor as well.  I like Josh too but he will probably be in the "other" alliance post-merge so can't root for him as a result.  Now if he flipped to Natalie's side I think they could rule the season.

Edited by green
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So that gives them Jeremy, Natalie, Missy, Baylor, Jon, Jacqueline and Julie. That's seven versus Josh and company which will only be Josh, Reed, Keith, Wes and Alec.

 

 

It does seem to be lining up that way and if so, then I’m all for the larger alliance.  I think Jeremy, Natalie, Missy and Baylor are all really playing the game and not doing a bad job of it so far.  They probably offer a better chance of this season getting more interesting towards the end.

 

I realize that all four of them can be offputting at times, but not to the point where I just want see them gone.  In fact, I’m actually liking Natalie quie a bit, even though I really disliked the Twinnies on TAR.

 

Baylor amuses me. I guess I can appreciate her dry sense of humor and that she keeps her cool even when provoked.  Her relationship with her mother isn't the healthiest, but it's not hard to figure out why given what her mother's like.

 

As for Jeremy, I didn't like his attitude towards his wife, but he's grown on me.  I guess I agree with both of the following quotes:

 

I don't mind Jeremy's whinging in his confessionals, because it's smart of him to do so instead of constantly acting unpleasant to their faces which would put a target on his back.

 

I do like Jeremy, and I do really like and agree with ProfCrash's analysis of him.  At least Jeremy has passion about something.  At least he has personality.

 

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After further thought, I've thought of a more substantial reason that relates to this answer.  We know before the swap, Jon was trying to rally together the people on Hunapu that still had a counterpart in the game and vote out a singleton.  This "pairs over singles" mentality stuck with him when he went to the pair heavy nuCoyopa.  And looking at the two other pairs, Missy and Baylor would seemingly both be easier to lead and beat than both Kelley and Dale.  Dale looked like a decent goat, but not Kelley.  She was more likely to work against Jon and Jaclyn than work with them.  Which also explains why she went first.  She was more of a threat.

 

Kelly mentioned in her exit interviews that she wanted to get Jon out over Drew and Missy told him. She said this is why Jon and Jacqueline chose to align with  Missy over her and her dad. It seems like we missed out on a lot of the tribal dynamics on the original Hunapu.

Edited by choclatechip45
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Man, screw Missy, she's got to go.  Seeing the price her former tribe had to pay for burning through their rice so quickly, while she skated off to another tribe where she proceeded to decimate their supply as well really, really pissed me off.

 

Why put all the  blame on Missy?  As Jeff rightly pointed out the other night there was a lot of hungry patrons on that tribe who had no problem stuffing their faces. In fact we have only been shown one person who did have  a problem with it and that is Dale who wasn't even on the blue tribe.  People seem to be acting like Missy ate the entire 25lb bag of rice herself when clearly it was a group effort that did the job without any complaints.

 

.  

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That would have been sweet. March the orange team over, let them decide what they want to take. A person, or all the luxury items. It's one thing for Jeff to take it away, would have stung a lot more for the opposing tribe to get it all.

 

But then it should have been done before the team switch, half of the team that would have been deciding what punishment to enforce were the people eating all of the rice to begin with.

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Reed thought that Jeremy was an ally, and Natalie, as well, until they joined Missy, Kelley, and Julie in voting Drew out.  Till then, he'd thought that he, Drew, Jon, Jeremy, and Natalie were Hunahpu's main alliance.

Interesting thanks! I must've missed that. Both Drew and Kelly said in their exit interviews that Reed started a lot of drama the first few days of camp and would've been one of the first booted if they lost. So Reed has recovered from that mistake.

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It is always interesting what the editors choose to show because hearing that about Reed from Kelley and Drew is especially surprising considering how mute they all but edited Reed as. I can only conclude that he's booted early after the merge and so never really affects the game and because of this the producers figured that storyline wasn't important enough to show. Or, he goes deep in the game and they didn't want to edit him negatively but nah, they've never been against showing the ugly sides of the eventual winner.

 

So yeah I'm going with the theory that Reed is an early boot post-merge. I guess the other reason is that they didn't go to Tribal Council for a long time and seems like by the time they did whatever friction existed between Reed and others didn't anymore, considering his name was never thrown around and this is the tribal council that saw four different people get votes. So when editing for the entire season, they decided it wasn't important because whatever drama that happened didn't significantly affect anything. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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So yeah I'm going with the theory that Reed is an early boot post-merge. I guess the other reason is that they didn't go to Tribal Council for a long time and seems like by the time they did whatever friction existed between Reed and others didn't anymore, considering his name was never thrown around and this is the tribal council that saw four different people get votes. So when editing for the entire season, they decided it wasn't important because whatever drama that happened didn't significantly affect anything.

Yeah it might explain why he was so mute in the beginning because the drama he started was the only interesting thing he had going for him.

Edited by choclatechip45
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"Even one two-day stretch is a long time to go with literally nothing to eat."

 

"You can survive a looooooong time without food, like around 20 days."

 

-- Indeed, I believe the average american can go without any food at all for almost a month with no ill effect.  After a few days of hunger pangs you adjust to it.   The show and it's contestants make it sound like life and death, but that's because we are culturally conditioned to think that way of anything but full satiation.

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This is always my least favorite ranking to do.  If I rank them by tribes, it’s all moot as the previews have revealed that we merge next week.  The tribes haven’t merged, so I have no idea which potential alliance is going to take initial control.  In addition, this was, once immunity was decided, a totally predictable and boring episode.

 

New Hunahpu (blue)
  I don’t remember seeing anything that would change the rankings from last week.  So, refresher:

1. Josh, 2. Wes, 3. Reed, 4. Alec, 5. Natalie, 6. Julie, and 7. Jeremy

 

New Coyopa (orange)
  You know what, no changes here either.
1. Keith, 2. Jon, 3. Baylor, 4. Jacyln, 5. Missy
BYE Dale (6)

 

But, just for fun, let’s speculate about what will emerge as the power alliance, prepared to Pagong off the smaller one.

Here are my main conjectures: Jon has been selling a “Pairs vs Singletons” setup to Baylor, and Josh and Baylor are aligned, (they voted together on the Val and John votes.)  So, I’m guessing that half of the twelve contestants will join together (Josh&Reed, Jon&Jacyln, and Baylor&Missy,) and just need to draft either an idiot singleton (Alec,) or the other remaining pair (Keith&Wes.)  Eight people is too unwieldy an alliance, but it could form for the first couple of tribal councils after the merge.  (Looney theory: Jon told Keith about Dale’s “HII,” and Keith said, “does it look like this?” [Which if they had shown would have made a predictable episode even more so.]  Here, the core six blindside Keith, and his HII, after they’ve eliminated Jeremy and Natalie.)

 

So without ranking all twelve, I’ll go ahead and mention that if I had, Natalie would be eleventh and Jeremy twelfth.

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"Even one two-day stretch is a long time to go with literally nothing to eat."

 

"You can survive a looooooong time without food, like around 20 days."

 

-- Indeed, I believe the average american can go without any food at all for almost a month with no ill effect.  After a few days of hunger pangs you adjust to it.   The show and it's contestants make it sound like life and death, but that's because we are culturally conditioned to think that way of anything but full satiation.

 

I don't know if it is true, but there is a saying I heard years ago - A person can survive 3 weeks without food, 3 days without water, and 3 minutes without air.

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-- Indeed, I believe the average american can go without any food at all for almost a month with no ill effect.  After a few days of hunger pangs you adjust to it.   The show and it's contestants make it sound like life and death, but that's because we are culturally conditioned to think that way of anything but full satiation.

That is what really bugged me. I mean back in the early seasons they at least tried to make it seem like you actually had to worry about survival when you were on the show Survivor. Now it is just like build a shelter then lie around for 39 days. if you run out of food just ask and you can get more. What's next, the show providing the teams with pre-built shelters if they say they can't find anything to build theirs with?

 

Although I do wonder what would have happened if the team didn't have anything good worth trading for? 

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Honestly, to each his own but what appeals to me about the show was never "let's watch a bunch of people starve" so I'm not going to be bothered that they no longer "suffer enough as opposed to earlier seasons" or that they get enough food to get by. What I enjoy about Survivor is more the outwitting, alliances, challenges, etc. And as noted, yes a person may be okay to not have enough food for a month but how many times would they then be expected to do challenges that may be incredibly physically taxing while starving. And I think it's clear that no matter how much the rewards have gotten better in later seasons and they may not be starving as badly as previous seasons, the show does still take its toll based on how the contestants look by the end of the season. Tony who won last season, during the reunion said he was still having trouble building any muscle when he got back from the island and he had some parasites in his stomach.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I see your point about the outwitting, alliances and challenges. But at the same time trying to figure out how to balance that while figuring out how to keep yourself and your team in good shape is what made this show unique for me. I mean I mentioned earlier that back in the day being the person who could fish or could climb trees and get coconuts used to be a viable strategy to keep from getting voted out. Plus watching people trying to figure out how to find food, or what they are willing to eat is a lot more interesting than watching people lie around in a shelter and wait for challenges to happen. If I wanted to just watch people strategize and be taken care of by the producers I would watch Big Brother.

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I see your point about the outwitting, alliances and challenges. But at the same time trying to figure out how to balance that while figuring out how to keep yourself and your team in good shape is what made this show unique for me. I mean I mentioned earlier that back in the day being the person who could fish or could climb trees and get coconuts used to be a viable strategy to keep from getting voted out. Plus watching people trying to figure out how to find food, or what they are willing to eat is a lot more interesting than watching people lie around in a shelter and wait for challenges to happen. If I wanted to just watch people strategize and be taken care of by the producers I would watch Big Brother.

 

You beat me to it.  Every word of this, right down to the Big Brother reference.  :)

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I mean I mentioned earlier that back in the day being the person who could fish or could climb trees and get coconuts used to be a viable strategy to keep from getting voted out.

 

 

People still do that, the editors just don't focus on it. We saw Coyopa roasting crab more than once, so someone was clearly catching them and I'm sure if there is vegetation around, the tribes have had some. But as others have also noted, depending on the location of the season, sometimes that is not an option. Not every island location is filled with coconuts and other vegetation and even if it is, sometimes the tribe's location may not be in a vicinity where it is readily available. I guess I just personally did not think the rice thing was a big deal. They lost all their comfort items and had to sleep in torrential rain and Julie sure as hell looked like she was suffering because of that.

 

If I wanted to just watch people strategize and be taken care of by the producers I would watch Big Brother.

 

 

I guess I just don't see getting some extra rice as being taken care of and people casually sitting around strategizing largely because I don't view hunger as the only discomfort of competing on Survivor. It's a big one yes but there's also the sleeping in uncomfortable conditions which is why many contestants have talked about not sleeping well the whole time they're out there and lack of sleep takes its toll on your body. There is also the bug bites, the tropical weather that can mean heavy rains for days at times as we've seen in some seasons, etc. Again, ymmv but as people starving has never been a particularly huge appeal of the show to me, I just don't think the rice thing was that big of a deal. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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This reminds me of Russell Hantz's rank a couple of years ago about all the faults he saw with the game's current mode of execution (aka "all the reasons I lost when I should've won").  Probst's response was priceless, and right on target:

 

"That would definitely be an interesting game - but it wouldn't be Survivor."

 

:)

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Another point on the rice verses tarp debate is that being in shape for the challenges depends on many things other than how much food they just ate.   A night spent sitting up in cold rain burns far more calories than a night spent sleeping under a tarp, and the sleep deprivation alone would make me much more mentally fatigued than not having anything for breakfast.

 

As for Missy.  It's not just that she helped pig out on her tribe's rice, it's that she appears to control how much is cooked, in spite of what others say.  If she cooked a lot on the old tribe it's hard to blame her tribe for eating it, since it can't keep after it has been cooked.

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