S01.E07: New York Kids

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: Dr. Tyler Forester, founder of a free medical clinic and the son of a Wall Street billionaire, is awarded one of the city’s highest honors for his humanitarian efforts. A few hours later, he is found dead in his tiny apartment. Henry and Jo discover that Tyler's life of privilege and those of his thick-as-thieves Hamilton School classmates took a fateful turn one night many years ago. Now, the nightmare they thought they buried deep within themselves has come back to haunt them. Meanwhile, Henry recalls being faced with the terrible dilemma of being forced to decide between saving a man's life and protecting his own secret. Now, he is faced with the same predicament, but will he come to the same conclusion? And Abe shares a deeply held secret of his own with Henry.

 

[Netfoot]

When Det. Jo says "Drop the gun!" and the guy says "No, I don't think I will," and starts to raise the pistol?  That's the moment she should have double-tapped him.

[sonyab]

This was a great episode. I was thinking Henry wanted to get shot in the woods, to protect Jo, and then she sees him dying, and then poof he is gone. Then the truth comes out.  I love how young Abe in the flashback says mom and dad hehe awww! Well, I have started to detach myself from this show. I am still going to watch it, it's just that I know this show will be cancelled, so I am preparing myself. I have no idea when we are going to find out.

[RealityCreator]

I enjoyed this episode too.  I like how the relationship between Henry and Abe is being fleshed out.  The mythology of the show gets more complex and interesting every episode, but it's probably being rolled out too slowly for the average viewer.  I feel that last week and this week the overall story became much more intriguing.  They probably should have introduced the mystery person who knows Henry's secret earlier than episode 5.  I'm watching until its cancelled too, even though I'll be sad about it when it's done before it's time.

[theatremouse]

Did not enjoy for one main reason: establish that rich high school kids went on a weekend away and clearly covering up some secret=they killed someone. Gas station guy, I guy, maybe, theoretically, writers thought they were putting in some effort there to make this not entirely predictable, but this was just about as straight out formulaic as it can get, save the Abe/flashback details, which I like. I mean, I think the heart of the show is more in the characters than the procedural stuff. But if it's going to largely be procedural, this is so not sufficient. If the COW is just a guise for exploring and relating to the flashbacks or Abe or Henry in general, they're not doing enough to make that the focus. If the COW is going to be this front and center, it's got to be less "figure it out in ten seconds".

[dubbel zout]

I'm out. I just can't with Henry anymore. He really has to instruct CSU how to look for a gravesite? And then of course he's the one who finds it anyway.

 

Maybe Alana de la Garza is okay with Jo basically being Henry's chauffeur, but I'm not.

 

Bummer, because I really wanted to like this show. Ioan Gruffudd and AdlG are so appealing, and the supporting cast is good. But there is too much disbelief for me to suspend.

[HalcyonDays]

I liked this episode. I guess I just like the cute fluffy nature of the show. Love Abe and Henry's interactions and also Henry and Jo's. I really like how Alana de la Garza portrays Jo. I don't know what it is - she just seems like a normal human, not a super human cop character. I love that about her. I also like her asking Henry little questions, just trying to get to know him, figure him out.

 

Even the scene when the Captain is telling her story about when she shot someone, and Jo answers exactly the way I would expect a person to. First, by answering in a way she expects the Captain to want to hear (but then she is wrong), but then just trying to appease the Captain while getting the heck out of there because she doesn't want to deal. It seems really real to me and I think partly because I can totally relate to her. Even her story about her in boarding school and the rich kids rang dead on true for most of us normal minions growing up.

 

I really like her character and her chemistry/friendship with Henry and I like how she's slowly bringing Henry out of his shell, so to speak. It's a good entertaining show that I enjoy.

[sonyab]

I'm out. I just can't with Henry anymore. He really has to instruct CSU how to look for a gravesite? And then of course he's the one who finds it anyway.

 

He wasn't doing that. He was showing them where the body was buried, because he knew where it was.

[La Tortuga]

I don't understand why the word "vector" became this bone of contention between Henry and Jo. Surely she's taken a high school physics class and heard the word in its proper context before. And if she thinks it's just an unusual word to hear at all, why not just assume that it's because Henry is from a different country (as the accent would indicate)? And then, as dubbel zout said above, Henry has to tell CSU how to find a body, in spite of that being what they've all been professionally trained to do.

 

It all smacks of the writers thinking the audience is too stupid to understand what a vector is or have a basic idea of how forensic science works unless they spell it out for us. Because obviously this is the first procedural crime drama any of us has ever seen before. It's not like it's a popular genre or anything.

[dubbel zout]

He wasn't doing that. He was showing them where the body was buried, because he knew where it was.

 

No. At the beginning of the scene, Henry was telling the CSU people what to look for—mounded dirt, etc. We saw everyone looking around for a few seconds. Then Henry saw the tree, knew it was likely the spot because of the unusual growth for its position, and told CSU to start digging there.

[rho]

I don't understand why the word "vector" became this bone of contention between Henry and Jo. Surely she's taken a high school physics class and heard the word in its proper context before. And if she thinks it's just an unusual word to hear at all, why not just assume that it's because Henry is from a different country (as the accent would indicate)? And then, as dubbel zout said above, Henry has to tell CSU how to find a body, in spite of that being what they've all been professionally trained to do.

 

It all smacks of the writers thinking the audience is too stupid to understand what a vector is or have a basic idea of how forensic science works unless they spell it out for us. Because obviously this is the first procedural crime drama any of us has ever seen before. It's not like it's a popular genre or anything.

 

I particularly liked this episode because it reminded me of a Kevin Williamson movie but I've also never taken the show too seriously. That said, the vector conversation was so grating. It's been a loooooooooooong time since I last took physics and I still know what vector means. I think it's a matter of the writers having limited knowledge and their attempt to impress the audience backfired royally. Cut to the next scene where Jo flaunt her NYPS education and now we're supposed to think she's smart. From a technical standpoint the show hit all the marks when it introduced this literal twist on Chekhov's gun with the bullet fever but the writers really need to reel in Jo and flesh her out a bit before Forever becomes the poor man's Castle.

[dargosmydaddy]

Did I hear Abe say he missed the Don Larsen game on his tenth birthday? In October of 1956? Which would mean he was born in 1946, over a year (by October) after the end of World War II/ the Holocaust?

[KaveDweller]

i was super obvious the rich kids had killed someone back in high school, but I really did think the woman friend was the one who killed him.  So, the gas station guy was a surprise, but I didn't totally get his motivation.  Was he still getting paid money in exchange for the secret, as opposed to just one payment?

[dubbel zout]

Yes; as long as the gas station guy kept his mouth shut about the accident, he'd keep getting paid.

[theatremouse]

Did I hear Abe say he missed the Don Larsen game on his tenth birthday? In October of 1956? Which would mean he was born in 1946, over a year (by October) after the end of World War II/ the Holocaust?

Mmhmm. Also significantly after, I think, the year displayed on screen when they previously flashed back to him being found. Although I don't think he said it was his tenth birthday. I thought he just referred to himself as a 10-year-old, but I might've zoned out on that a bit. Still bad math either way I think. If you're going to do a show involved ever-living beings, you'd think one would want to keep a real tight lid on any dates that get thrown out.

I didn't totally get his motivation.  Was he still getting paid money in exchange for the secret, as opposed to just one payment?

He was getting regular payments, and murdered-guy was going to confess, as well as stop paying, therefore murdered, which is dumb because dead men can't pay up. Unless he was also concerned about being caught for the hush-money all along and roped into the murder conspiracy, in which case it was murder to not potentially be caught up in association with the cover up. Because, you know, why not commit a much more serious crime in order to not get caught for an earlier lesser one, and continue not to be paid off by anybody.

[shapeshifter]

Did I hear Abe say he missed the Don Larsen game on his tenth birthday? In October of 1956? Which would mean he was born in 1946, over a year (by October) after the end of World War II/ the Holocaust?

Mmhmm. Also significantly after, I think, the year displayed on screen when they previously flashed back to him being found. Although I don't think he said it was his tenth birthday. I thought he just referred to himself as a 10-year-old, but I might've zoned out on that a bit. Still bad math either way I think. If you're going to do a show involved ever-living beings, you'd think one would want to keep a real tight lid on any dates that get thrown out.

I'm very sorry to hear about the ratings, but yes, this is problematic.

Let's see. According to this web page from the Holocaust Museum site, the British liberated camps in April and May of 1945. If we let Abe be only a few months old at the time, he could be 11 in October of '56. Maybe they always told everyone Abe was a year younger than he was so they didn't have to say he was adopted? IDK.

ETA, one more possibility: Brits say they are "in my 10th year" when Yanks would say they are 9. Maybe the writer knew it was a year different, but got it backwards.

When Henry told the H!ITG from the gas station, "Shoot me," Henry was walking toward him at an angle so the guy would have to aim away from Jo. That would make it easier for her to shoot, right? Also, Henry might have thought she would feel better about shooting to save his life than her own. And, finally, I thought it was a teeny bit romantic, because Henry was willing to share his secret with her if he got killed.

Anyway, the gas station guy trying to make them choose which one for him to shoot was pretty melodramatic and silly to me without the significance it had for Henry.

Edited October 30, 2014 by shapeshifter

[theatremouse]

And, finally, I thought it was a teeny bit romantic, because Henry was willing to share his secret with her if he got killed.

I didn't find it romantic so much as a mirror of the other guy who got shot in the 50s, which also got Henry shot, and his dismay he expressed to his wife about how he couldn't be a doctor if he were going to hide to save his secret rather than save a life. So I thought it was more like him making the opposite choice, not necessarily because of who Jo is, but because they were doing a clunky two sides of the same decision thing. Not that it can't be both...

[KaveDweller]

He was getting regular payments, and murdered-guy was going to confess, as well as stop paying, therefore murdered, which is dumb because dead men can't pay up. Unless he was also concerned about being caught for the hush-money all along and roped into the murder conspiracy, in which case it was murder to not potentially be caught up in association with the cover up. Because, you know, why not commit a much more serious crime in order to not get caught for an earlier lesser one, and continue not to be paid off by anybody.

 

Right it doesn't make sense.  But it sounded like he was just intending to threaten the guy into not confessing and it got more serious.  I am not sure what you threaten a guy who is going to confess to killing someone with though.

[sonyab]

No. At the beginning of the scene, Henry was telling the CSU people what to look for—mounded dirt, etc. We saw everyone looking around for a few seconds. Then Henry saw the tree, knew it was likely the spot because of the unusual growth for its position, and told CSU to start digging there.

Ohhh okay. Well, nobody complained ROFL!

[dubbel zout]

Do we know baby Abe was in a concentration camp and not a displaced-persons camp? Regardless, I agree that the show need to keep a tighter rein on dates in Henry and Abe's pasts.

[attica]

Couple of things that made me smile: 1) the scene where Lucas asks the assemblage if they'd miss him post-abduction and Henry asides to Jo that he'd told him they would --- if the office wasn't busy. Hee. 2) Henry's stated love of Jaguars --IG did voiceovers for Jag's commercials for a few years a few years ago.

 

Please, show: make IG shave. I do not endorse the stubble.

 

Nice work by JH capturing the 10-year-old's whine complaining to his dad about missing the big game.

[dubbel zout]

2) Henry's stated love of Jaguars --IG did voiceovers for Jag's commercials for a few years a few years ago.

I love those sorts of inside jokes.

[HalcyonDays]

Please, show: make IG shave. I do not endorse the stubble.

 

Oh god no - I fully endorse the stubble. I think Henry looks so much better now than in the flashbacks where he is cleanshaven. So much better. My preference, obviously.

 

Which makes me wonder - the "stubble" on IG looks like real hair - not "shoepolish" colouring, so how do they film this. It takes time for him to grow in some hair nicely, so did they plan out some of the episodes, film the flashbacks first then had him grow the facial hair??

 

I am very interesting to see how fast the show is going to have Henry reveal his secret to Jo. I bet it'll be accidental in her presence, but wondering how long they will drag it out.

[caprice]

That was a little too obvious with the "I Know What You Did Last Summer" vibe. I was amazed that, the way Cassie was macking on everyone in the car while she was driving, that they didn't end up flipping it, as well as hitting the poor pedestrian.

 

Do we know baby Abe was in a concentration camp and not a displaced-persons camp? Regardless, I agree that the show need to keep a tighter rein on dates in Henry and Abe's pasts.

When we saw baby Abe, someone had tattooed a number on his arm which was discussed at length in that ep's thread. Historically, it makes more sense for him to have been in a displaced-persons' camp. You'd think they'd have a flowchart or something with all Henry and Abe's important dates, right? It's a simple writing tool, people!

 

I'm enjoying how the writers seem to be taking their time in letting things come out between Henry and Jo. While they're doing a great job with Henry and Abe, it's refreshing to see things moving SLOWLY between the male and female leads. I'm not saying that I want to see them hooking up, just that it's nice to see the trust being built before anything else happens.

[topanga]

 

2) Henry's stated love of Jaguars --IG did voiceovers for Jag's commercials for a few years a few years ago.

Ha! That makes total sense. When Henry said "Jag-u-ar" in that lovely British voice, my first thought was that he sounded just like the guy from the commercials.

 

 

Oh god no - I fully endorse the stubble. I think Henry looks so much better now than in the flashbacks where he is cleanshaven. So much better. My preference, obviously.

 

Which makes me wonder - the "stubble" on IG looks like real hair - not "shoepolish" colouring, so how do they film this. It takes time for him to grow in some hair nicely, so did they plan out some of the episodes, film the flashbacks first then had him grow the facial hair??

And yes to the stubble. It makes Henry look sexy as hell. I mean "sexy as heck" --'cause this seems to be a curse-free thread.

[shapeshifter]

Do we know baby Abe was in a concentration camp and not a displaced-persons camp? Regardless, I agree that the show need to keep a tighter rein on dates in Henry and Abe's pasts.

So if he was in the displaced persons camp, he could be 10 at the time of the October 1956 game--unless--does that make the tattoo more unlikely? Oh well, close enough for the show.

[Netfoot]

So if he was in the displaced persons camp, he could be 10 at the time of the October 1956 game--unless--does that make the tattoo more unlikely? Oh well, close enough for the show.

 

Well, if he was tattooed, it wouldn't have happened after VE Day (8 May 1945).  So, assuming he was tattooed at the hour of his birth, and that this was on the morning of VE Day itself (both assumptions unlikely) then his birthday would have to be 8 May 1945.  Very much more likely to have been born some time before that.

 

However, as a random, unidentified baby with no papers, he might well have been "issued" with a name, nationality, and a DoB, for official reasons, so papers could be drawn up for him.  Could this be the case?  Is it possible he'd be given a DoB of the day his case was dealt with?  If so, it would be later in 1945, or even 1946.

 

Would anyone care to estimate the age of Abe the babe, as seen in the flashback?

[caprice]

Oh, Netfoot, I like that. If Abe was this "random, unidentified baby with no papers," maybe the Morgans decided that they'd celebrate his birthday as being the day he joined them.

[theatremouse]

Or he could've just been speaking imprecisely. I rewatched and didn't catch a mention of it being his 10th birthday, just him referring to himself as "a ten year old boy". So, if he were really 11, but just saying it in a whining-about-missing-it way, that's plausible he said "10" to be general. This to me, again, is a "reasonable thing a real person would do" thinking on my part, even though I remain staunchly on the "they should have a master timeline in the show bible for a show of this nature" side of the fence.

I'm assuming he was born sometime between January and May 1945, but may have been "assigned" a different birthday, possibly the day the Morgans found him, which I think would make him maybe 3-4 months older than he thinks he is.

[Netfoot]

I remain staunchly on the "they should have a master timeline in the show bible for a show of this nature" side of the fence.

 

They certainly should.  However, as you said, it would be allowable for a character to conversationally diverge from strict accuracy.  In conversation I might say "...but that was 25 years ago!" when actually it was 23 or 26½.  So, it's OK for Abe to utter a remark that is a year or two off, providing that specific dates/ages are consistent with a realistic timeline.

[roomtorome]

I'm officially bored - it turned out to be just another crime show - they could have made so much of the concept yet they chose the lazy, dull way out.  Network TV really is contemptuous of its viewers.  Feed us the same old stuff over and over and over and they know they will always have an audience. 

 

I'm sticking with cable for the most part - even there, it can be lazy and redundant but at least there are some interesting stories to tell there.  

 

This show has awful ratings so I am guessing perhaps a lot of people got bored and bailed.  IG is nice enough as an actor but I find him too lightweight to carry a lead on a show - or, anything else.  

 

Oh well - onward.

[Ms. Poly Theist]

I'm going to stick with this show for now, even though Ioan Gruffudd is possibly a show-killer (Ringer, Century City), so I'm sure I will eventually be disappointed when it's cancelled. But as much as I've liked it so far, this week's episode was not my favorite. Two things really stuck out for me: 1) Henry saved Paul by giving him something to make him throw up...but unless my eyes deceived me, he'd overdosed on something he was shooting into his arm. How would throwing up clear something out of his system that he'd injected?! And 2), when Jo and Henry were in Paul's apartment after saving him, Jo says to Henry, "The EMT says he won't be able to answer questions until tomorrow." Since when does an EMT make those kinds of determinations? I guess they couldn't afford a scene change and a hospital room set and an extra to play a doctor.

 

I really hope the show lasts long enough for Henry to reveal his secret to Jo, at least!

[Oscirus]

I actually liked the vector thing. It was a fun bit of teasing between Jo and Henry. Dude, you're in mixed company, keep it simple.

 

The case of the week was alright. It checked off every possible cliché. But the time passed fast enough. I couldn't really get connected to the case or the victim because the people involved came off as cardboard cutouts.  That last bit about the rich kids getting away with it came off as a way to build up cheap heat for the "evil rich kids." They all already admitted to the murder so them getting a cheap sentence could only have happened because the prosecutor was lazy.

 

The show does a great job developing the main cast, unfortunately, it does an awful job doing so for the victim of the week.  There needs to be a better balance.

 

[371012]

EMTs in many states can administer narcan to reverse opioid drug effects. And stopping the drug overdose may cause vomiting, but I thought narcan was injected or given as a nasal spray,,,

[Guest]

Yeah, I was thinking, "Don't try this at home!" when he poured milk down an unconscious guys' throat.  So wrong.  And vomiting doesn't really solve much, if he's already got so much drug in his system that he's not breathing.

 

I also laughed at "vector as in angle and force".  What in the world does 20 degrees have to do with force?  

 

I kind of snickered too at the CSI guys nearly all carrying tool boxes.  I guess they knew Henry would find the grave in 4 seconds.  I missed it-- how did they even know where in the woods to search?  

 

I like IG and his stubble but I sometimes have trouble understanding the brits, and he does feel like a carbon copy of Jonny Lee Miller's Sherlock at times.  Who often feels like a copy of House, which is odd since Hugh Laurie hides his british accent there.  I guess it's the 'genius plus irascible plus stubble' thing, plus drugs in Holmes/House's cases.  

[dubbel zout]

I missed it-- how did they even know where in the woods to search?

 

I don't think they specifically say, but I believe they were in the woods behind the gas station. It isn't too much of a leap to think the body had been buried fairly close by. That was the least of disbelief to suspend for me.

 

ETA: Oh, you're absolutely right, Lovecat.

Edited November 4, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Lovecat]

I don't think they specifically say, but I believe they were in the woods behind the gas station. It isn't too much of a leap to think the body had been buried fairly close by. That was the least of disbelief to suspend for me.

Henry found a trail guide book in OD'd guy's house, along with a pair of boots that had sandy soil that matched what would be found on the trail marked in the book.  Hence, body should be buried somewhere along that trail.

[Netfoot]

Wasn't there something about how green this one tree was compared to the others, obviously with a body at it's roots to provide extra nourishment?

[Lovecat]

Wasn't there something about how green this one tree was compared to the others, obviously with a body at it's roots to provide extra nourishment?

Yes, but they would have had to have gotten to the right general area of the woods first.  The guide book and sandy boots are what got them in the general vicinity.

[shapeshifter]

...I also laughed at "vector as in angle and force".  What in the world does 20 degrees have to do with force?

I wondered about that too.

[Sile]

I don't know if it was intentional, but I liked that they/Henry only figured the gas station guy for the killer because Tyler the Upstanding Citizen was writing off his blackmail payments as a charitable contribution.