Continuity, Nitpicks, and Science FAILs

[KirkB]

On a similar note, I found this article  http://www.fastcoexist.com/1681662/the-real-freeze-ray-we-can-now-use-lasers-to-drop-temperatures which, while sort of the opposite of what Cold was doing (ie he froze the lasers and this is talking about using lasers to cool) sort of hints at the basic concept is not quite as ridiculous as it appears. Not that I think the Flash show runners have anything this science related in mind. They just wanted an interesting looking event.

Edited October 21, 2015 by KirkB

[Delphi]

What bothers me more than the science of freezing lasers is Barry force hacking his way through the key pad. It's not an AOL account, this is 2015 you get locked out eventually.

[zannej]

Hi, I'm new here and I wanted to comment on a few things.

About the issue of the time paradox and why Eobard poofed into nonexistence but the changes he effected in Barry's life were not undone: Someone pointed out that maybe the past was already established and any changes then would only affect the future from that point on and from that point on, Eobard had not yet been born. So, Eddie killing himself would not reverse past events but could effect the present in that way. Its a stretch, but I think it kind of makes sense.

 

I can't figure out why Eobard was so nasty to Eddie and basically made him depressed/suicidal in some ways. I know he's a sociopath, but why be so cruel to a family member? Did he have some reason to dislike Eddie? (I like to fanwank that the reason Eddie didn't have a hugely successful career was because he put his family before his career-- or Eobard was just being an ass).

 

There didn't appear to be beds, toilets, or showers in the pipeline. How did they take care of business and bathe?

 

I think I spotted a continuity error, but maybe someone can straighten it out for me. When Joe first comes back to talk to Wells about Tess Morgan, Wells said something about how they were married to the work as much as to each other. The real Wells was shown wearing a wedding band and Eobard referred to her as the wife. But later Joe refers to Tess as a "girlfriend" and I think someone later mentioned that Wells was going to marry her. Did they forget that he seemed to be already married (hence the wedding ring?) Or did Tom forget to take off his wedding band for a scene?

 

How the hell would the tires popping make the vehicle flip like that and why did it seem like Tess was killed instantly? I have a friend who survived a much worse crash (albeit he had a concussion, swelling on the brain, punctured lung, bilateral subconjunctive hemorrhage, fracture to C7 vertebrae with bulged disc, multiple breaks in his arm/hand/wrist, and all of his teeth broke/cracked)- although just barely. His truck rolled 7 times and his passenger barely had a scratch on her.

 

Now I have some little minor nitpicks about filming inconsistencies:

episode 2: Barry's glove at crime scene disappears. Dr Wells (37 min in) has feet apart & then right foot is tilted and over near left foot)
episode 3: West brings in file box- nothing on top. They talk and suddenly there are papers and a photo on top.
episode 12: 6:10 Barry was wearing gloves and suddenly they are gone. 8:45 Wells reaches for the control on his wheelchair and misses twice.

Can't remember the episode now because I forgot to take notes, but Caitlin rang the doorbell at Wells' house and they showed the wheelchair but the image was flipped so the controller was on the left and tablet was on the right.

 

A couple of plot nitpicks: Why the hell did Barry agree to attempt to go back in time after he found out that there was a chance it could create a singularity and wipe out the entire galaxy or more? Why would he take that risk? And why would he agree to send Eobard back when he could have just said "Thanks for the info, have fun rotting in the pipeline" and then gone back in time? Since he didn't say hell no and did allow a time machine to be built, why did he end up coming back and stopping Eobard from returning (other than just pure rage that his mother died) after Eobard held up his end of the bargain. Did he not realize that Eobard would be enraged and want to kill him? On Eobard's end, why didn't he just tell Barry what transpired to make him hate Barry in the future? Maybe he could have changed things so that Barry wouldn't do the things in the future that pissed him off.

Based on what I vaguely recall from LEGION and Legion of Superheroes comics in the 90s I think its possible that Barry disappears during the crisis of infinite earths in April 2024 and goes forward into the future and then meets Eobard Thawn and inadvertently cockblocks him when he's about to score with a girl or is so disoriented he accidentally pisses in Eobard's gluten free cereal...

 

Also, the whole keeping the secret from Iris to protect her thing never made sense to me.

 

Also, wasn't Linda Park the woman who married Wally West? Hey, didn't Barry puke up that ghost pepper before she kissed him?

 

Ok, so Eobard pretends to be paralyzed and they said it was to throw off suspicion as well as charge himself, but wouldn't Caitlin be concerned about his health and want to examine him? Did he actually originally have a spinal injury or some sort of injury that healed because of his superspeed? I guess maybe with him being the boss, Caitlin might not want to question him, but you'd think she would be looking in to modern tech and want to offer him solutions for his paralysis. Scientists have already implanted a chip in a paralyzed man's brain that allowed him to move his arms with thought. You'd think she would be trying to encourage him to get something done to restore his mobility.

 

Another thing, if Barry has to eat a ton of food, how much is his food bill? Can he afford it? How does Star Labs have any finances left? Wouldn't there be major lawsuits because of the wrongful deaths and damages caused?

 

Since it was established that Grodd liked Caitlin, why didn't they send her down into the sewers to try to talk to him?

 

Do you think that Eobard watched Forest Gump and was somehow making fun of Barry every time he said "Run, Barry, run!"?

 

Another thing I forgot to mention: If Barry went back in time and changed the past, why would he forget all of the events? When he changed the past when he went back one day he still remembered everything. What if he saved his mother and then returned but still had all of his old memories and none of the new ones? Or what if the memories combined?

 

Oh yeah, and I timed it and Barry was gone for over 2 minutes (I think they said he had like 1 min 58 seconds to save Nora)-- but maybe he just had to return before the two minutes had passed in the "present" time?

Edited November 8, 2015 by zannej

[zannej]

I had a few more thoughts that I forgot to mention: Barry can run so fast that people can't see him, right? So why does he have to run around dodging bullets and dodging the freeze and cold guns when he can just zip in and disarm everyone? He's done it when convenient in other episodes. He could have just zipped in and taken the cold and heat guns away, hogtied Captain Cold and Heatwave, and gone home to eat several pizzas before anyone knew what happened.

 

Then we have the bit of superspeed not changing how far he has to run. Ok, so the world slows down around him, but some things are somewhat stationary (unless you factor in the rotation of the earth) and Barry is able to run vast distances that he would not normally have the stamina to run without needing a break. The world seems to slow down around him, but he still has to run across the entire city. So, does the superspeed also give him more stamina so he can run farther? Or is it a question of how long he is running and that being able to go so fast means he doesn't have to maintain a run for as long since he can somehow cover the distances so quickly?

 

As for people he is carrying not burning up and his clothes not catching on fire, IIRC, at some point in the comic books about 20 years ago or so, they established that The Flash could extend the speed force or whatever it was that protected his own body around other people and objects that he held close to him. I wonder if this is something he has to do consciously.

 

When Barry got low blood sugar and passed out so they had to give him IVs, it looked like he had hours or even days worth of IVs and unless his superspeed accelerated the drip, there is no way they would all be emptied that fast. Speaking of which, since his cells repair so rapidly, it would be hard to keep an IV going since a film would form over where the IV went in. I had a family member who had to have a PICC line in to get IV antibiotics. A syringe would be used to inject the antibiotics into a port that went through the tube. But before the antibiotics were delivered, another syringe of fluid would have to be used to unclot and clear any possible obstructions-- since a film could form or blood could clot around the IV needle. That could potentially be a problem for Barry when receiving IV fluids (unless his speed extended to the IVs).

Edited November 8, 2015 by zannej

[arc]

I had a few more thoughts that I forgot to mention: Barry can run so fast that people can't see him, right? So why does he have to run around dodging bullets and dodging the freeze and cold guns when he just zip in and disarm everyone? He's done it when convenient in other episodes. He could have just zipped in and taken the cold and heat guns away, hogtied Captain Cold and Heatwave, and gone home to eat several pizzas before anyone knew what happened.

They're often pretty bad about figuring out how to write a superspeedster's superheroics. =/

 

Hey, I'm only just catching up a bit here and there; I faded out from watching halfway through last season.  But... the s1 finale had Barry reverse-tornado a black hole?  Really?  Sweet merciful crap.

[Trini]

Updating the "Who Knows The Flash's Secret Identity" list:

Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:
Jay Garrick/Flash - Earth 2

Harrison Wells - Earth 2
 
Unconfirmed, but more than likely:
Henry Hewitt/Tokamak

Jefferson Jackson/Firestorm

Probably the Entire Staff of Iron Heights Prison (forgot to add this before)

[Trini]

And now Linda Park joins the list. (How soon until Patty knows?)

 

---

And I guess we shouldn't be surprised at Zoom catching that lightning bolt since a few episodes ago, we saw laser beams freeze and shatter. Although, I was expecting him to redirect the lightning, not launch it like a javelin.   :-/

[zannej]

And now Linda Park joins the list. (How soon until Patty knows?)

 

---

And I guess we shouldn't be surprised at Zoom catching that lightning bolt since a few episodes ago, we saw laser beams freeze and shatter. Although, I was expecting him to redirect the lightning, not launch it like a javelin.   :-/

The special effects for the lightning bolt that Zoom caught just made me laugh. It was so incredibly bad. He might as well have just caught a giant foam lightning-bolt shape and chucked it. They could have done *something* to make it look less cheesy. Like if it had been much slimmer and less solid-looking.

Edited November 11, 2015 by zannej

[Oscirus]

I forgot to add this from a few weeks back. When Flash illegally took blood from those two firestorm candidates, how did those two vials fill up so quickly?

[zannej]

I forgot to add this from a few weeks back. When Flash illegally took blood from those two firestorm candidates, how did those two vials fill up so quickly?

My headcanon is that when Barry interacts closely with objects, he can extend his speedforce to them to make them move faster as well-- that is the only explanation that would make sense-- aside from writers not thinking it through). I mean, he was rebuilding stuff in the middle of the night at superspeed-- adhesives take time to set up-- concrete can actually take a full month to cure if it is going to hold weight and not crack.

[Sakura12]

I want to know how Barry can catch bullets with his bare hands? He's not Superman. Slowing down time to push the bullets elsewhere sure, but catching them mid flight, they should still rip through his hands since he didn't in fact stop time. 

[bettername2come]

I want to know how Barry can catch bullets with his bare hands? He's not Superman. Slowing down time to push the bullets elsewhere sure, but catching them mid flight, they should still rip through his hands since he didn't in fact stop time. 

Would grabbing them from the sides work? As long as he doesn't put his hand directly in front of them, it seems like he should be fine if plucks them out of the air. At least in comic book world.

[KirkB]

I suppose Barry, and now Zoom, could somehow be absorbing the speed of the bullets when they catch them.

[quarks]

I want to know how Barry can catch bullets with his bare hands? He's not Superman. Slowing down time to push the bullets elsewhere sure, but catching them mid flight, they should still rip through his hands since he didn't in fact stop time. 

 

I thought this was a nod to one of the original Jay Garrick comics, where Jay Garrick does catch a bullet. The comic then stopped to provide an elaborate explanation of just how Jay Garrick could do this - something along the lines of since Jay was running very very fast he didn't get the impact from the bullet.

 

For what it's worth, the explanation made PERFECT sense to a six year old.

[zannej]

Well, if Barry is traveling at the same speed or faster than the bullets and he grabs them from the side it might be sort of like catching a football or some small projectile that is going slowly. To the rest of the world the bullets are going fast, but to Barry they are slow so he can grab them.

[paulvdb]

Or maybe we're just thinking about it too much. After all, this is a show where you can freeze laser beams. So it should not come as a surprise that other things also don't make sense to viewers with some knowledge of science.

[zannej]

A minor nitpick upon re-watch of some scenes. In season 1, Barry was reading the book about Wells. It said "A biography" not "autobiography". And Eobard mentioned that in the biography he was described in unflattering ways. It sounded like someone else had written the book.

 

But when E2 Wells read the book he said it was strange to be holding his autobiography that he didn't write and that wasn't about him. Did they forget that it was apparently not an autobiography?

 

Edit to add: I found an image of the cover for the book and it says "From the Author of the Besteslling Biographies of Bill Gates and J.D. Salinger, this is the exclusive Biography of Harrison Wells."

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/arrow/images/d/de/Wells_-_A_Biography.png/revision/latest?cb=20150906031954

 

As a fun thing, the letters HG are somewhere on the cover. HG Wells. LOL.

 

The blurb on the back says the author is John Gallagher. I'm transcribing the blurb on the back cover and will later post it in the section about Wells.

Edited November 17, 2015 by zannej

[Trini]

I'm really surprised that there was no follow-up about Dr. Light's escape. I know there are other evil metahumans loose, but at least they belong in this dimension!

[KirkB]

I'm grasping at straws here, but I think Barry and the others may be treating Dr. Light kind of like Captain Cold. Yes, she's a thief, and now a murderer, but she's not usually inherently violent. A case could be made killing what's his name was an accident. And without her hand blasters she may not be much of a threat anyway. So unless she does something to get their attention again they are probably more focused on Zoom.

Edited November 20, 2015 by KirkB

[zannej]

I'm grasping at straws here, but I think Barry and the others may be treating Dr. Light kind of like Captain Cold. Yes, she's a thief, and now a murderer, but she's not usually inherently violent. A case could be made killing what's his name was an accident. And without her hand blasters she may not be much of a threat anyway. So unless she does something to get their attention again they are probably more focused on Zoom.

I think she was able to generate blasts from her hands without the gloves. It was Earth1 Linda who needed the hand blaster gloves. But I tend to agree that she is probably laying low to hide from Zoom and is not a threat so they are leaving her alone. They have had larger concerns than her. :P

[Trini]

I know Zoom is the bigger issue, but it was odd to me that they didn't mention her at all. Dr. Light could still be a threat to Linda.

[Trini]

An anti-nitpick: Glad that Cisco apparently created a Distress Call AKA "Come save me, now!" phone app. I hope they use this again in the future.

[Trini]

Update to 'Who Knows the Flash's Secret Identity' List:

 

Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:
Thea Queen /Speedy

Friends of Friends:
Kendra Saunders /Priestess Sheyira /Hawkgirl

Carter Hall /Prince Khufu /Hawkman

Villains/etc:
Malcolm Merlyn /Dark Archer (confirmed!)

Vandal Savage

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Update to 'Who Knows the Flash's Secret Identity' List:

 

Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:

Thea Queen /Speedy

Friends of Friends:

Kendra Saunders /Priestess Sheyira /Hawkgirl

Carter Hall /Prince Khufu /Hawkman

Villains/etc:

Malcolm Merlyn /Dark Archer (confirmed!)

Vandal Savage

 

"Everyone on Flash & Arrow [and soon to be LoT], but Patty" is probably a more succinct way of stating said list.  ;)

Edited December 3, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Trini]

Essay about the ethics --or lack thereof-- in The Flash. Talks anout some issues that have been brought up here.

However, as much as I've found myself enjoying the adventures of Barry Allen and his comrades, I can hold my peace no longer. It's time for someone to say it: Science in Central City is in desperate need of some ethical oversight.

Time and again, the Flash and his team—all trained scientists—ignore fundamental protections of research subjects and a disregard for human rights. That's no small quibble for a tentpole superhero supposedly interested in justice and doing good. But, as I'll explore, there are real-world historical precedents for many of these transgressions.

[Trini]

The 'Who Knows The Flash's Secret Identity' list:

 

Family/Friends:

Joe West

Henry Allen

Nora Allen [dead]

Iris West

Felicity Smoak

Oliver Queen/Arrow

Linda Park

Patty Spivot

Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:

Cisco Ramon

Caitlyn Snow

Eddie Thawne [dead]

John Diggle

Roy Harper/Arsenal

Ray Palmer/ATOM

Jay Garrick/Flash - Earth 2

Harrison Wells - Earth 2

 

Friends of Friends:

Lyla Diggle

Ronnie Raymond /Firestorm [dead]

Martin Stein /Firestorm

Clarrissa Stein

Laurel Lance/Black Canary

Thea Queen /Speedy

Kendra Saunders /Priestess Chayara /Hawkgirl

Carter Hall /Prince Khufu /Hawkman [dead... for now?]

 

Villains/etc:

Reverse Flash/Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne [dead... except not, because time travel wackiness??]

Girder/Tony Woodward [dead]

Pied Piper/Hartley Rathaway

Capt. Cold/Leonard Snart

Plastique/Bette Sans Souci [dead]

Blackout/Farooq Gibran [dead]

Gen. Wade Eiling

Everyman/Hannibal Bates [dead]

Grodd

Malcolm Merlyn /Dark Archer

Vandal Savage

Zoom

 

Other Random People:

That Dude Who Tried to Mug Barry in Season 1, Episode 7

Several League of Assassins Minions

Unconfirmed, but more than likely:

Tokamak /Henry Hewitt

Jefferson Jackson/Firestorm

Probably the Entire Staff of Iron Heights Prison

Probably Some People on That Train with Patty

 

29 people, plus 9 people who are dead.

-------------

And we may add some more Earth-2 people in the next few weeks.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Trini

[quarks]

I think Carter Hall is now on the "dead" list.  

 

Didn't a couple of LoA people show up flanking Malcolm Merlyn? They know too.  

[Trini]

Noted! I was iffy on labelling Carter 'dead', because I assume he's still going to be showing up (in the past) on Legends; and of course they might even undo the death.

I'll add the LoA goons, too.

[zannej]

Ok. Here's something that I just thought of with a recent episode but didn't remember to post: Jay said that he couldn't use DNA from his doppelganger because his own DNA was mutated and thus would not be a match. I believe he said it was mutated by the speedforce. So, wouldn't that have meant that Eobard/Wells would have had mutated DNA as well? Thus, wouldn't he have been somewhat different from Earth 2 Wells? If the change is genetic, then why did it not show up in Eobard/Wells' DNA? Or did he just sub something else for his DNA? Or maybe use an old sample or something? Was he able to shut off the speedforce powers to make his DNA look normal? Did he start to get sick when he didn't have the speedforce working? (Remember how he fell down when he lost his speedforce while running when Hartley was loose?)

 

How would Jay know that Hunter's DNA wouldn't help him if he didn't at least try?

[Trini]

From the past few episodes:

 

a) The Turtle shouldn't have even been in the Pipeline since Iron Heights Prison can hold meta-humans now. They could have taken samples and sent him off.

 

b) I'm guessing Harry isn't going to be held responsible for killing Turtle. (Which brings up whole other issues worse than the ethical mess that was the Pipeline last year. )

 

c) I think that it was weird that Patty (/the writers) didn't bring up all the other evidence that pointed to Barry being the Flash. Because I don't think that you can conclude that just from his case files, as Patty stated. A really easy explanation for that would be that Barry (or even via Iris) has an "in" with the Flash, and that's how he gets the extra details. I thought they would have brought up the stuff with Turtle from the previous episode, with him taking something precious from the Flash -- which they clearly put there for this reason.  Seems like a writers room (editing?) fail.

[zannej]

Some more thoughts: When Eddie died, it stopped Eobard from being born and thus he poofed from existence (although a remnant of him was able to return)-- it seems that things that had already happened were not undone (such as Eobard killing Barry's mother + Harrison Wells + Tess Morgan and creating the particle accelerator). So, why is it that when remnant Eobard was being held in the pipeline, Cisco was retroactively being erased/destroyed? And why was Cisco the only one affected?

 

And if Barry told Eobard "You killed my mother", then why was it that last season he said he killed Barry's mother out of anger and to stop him from becoming the Flash? Did he forget that tidbit?

 

Don't they have cameras in the pipeline? Wouldn't there have been footage of Harry killing Turtle? Or can we assume that Harry doctored the footage?

Edited February 9, 2016 by zannej

[bettername2come]

And why was Cisco the only one affected?

 

I think that had to do with the nature of Cisco's powers. He can "see through the vibrations of the universe" so screwing with the balance of the multiverse screwed him over. Can't tell with the rest.

[Jenesis]

Why wasn't Deathstorm's power always on? I thought that's what happened when him and Martin merged?

[zannej]

Jenesis, I think he was able to turn his powers off for awhile. Not sure though. I wonder exactly what Zoom did to him. I couldn't quite tell. And I wonder why Zoom left E1 Cisco alone (other than plotforce).

 

People mentioned the meta-human detecting apps and how they don't seem to work all the time. It seems rather convenient that they don't work all the time, but maybe they are buggy. I noticed two types of alerts: 1. Active beeping when metahumans are using their powers, 2. Flashing/glowing red when in proximity to a passive metahuman.

 

So, I'm guessing that the latter requires being up close to work, but the beeping alert can work from a distance because using powers actively can trigger it somehow.

 

I mentioned in the episode thread that my biggest WTF from the episode was Jay's loss of speedforce and the reasons for it. If I recall correctly, he told them that Zoom stole his speed and there is talk about how Zoom must be defeated to give him his speed back. But now he's saying he had speed powers from the particle accelerator but he got greedy and used "velocity 6" (which, it sounds like he developed his own?) but it made him sick and actually caused him to lose his speedforce. WTF?

So, my questions:

*Did he have a supply of the serum that he brought with him and did he continue to use (thus explaining how he was there for like 6 months without being noticed) and then ran out and realized it was killing him?

*Did he realize the serum was making him sick before or after he went through the breach?

*Did he just not have any serum on him when he went through the breach and that is why he lost his powers and got sick and then he figured out it was the serum?

*Did he previously work with Harry on making the formula?

*How the frack was he taking velocity 6 when it seems that Harry only recently developed it while on Earth1? (Wouldn't he have been taking previous versions-- like Velocity 5?)

*Who did Harry test the previous 5 versions of the serum on? Jay, himself, or some other random person? Did he make some for Zoom to try? Could that be why Zoom is trying to gather speed from other speedsters (to counteract damaging side effects from one of the serums?)

*If the serum was so dangerous, why didn't Jay just outright tell people that? If he told Harry that the serum caused him to be sick and lose his powers, that might have made a difference.

*Why did Jay lie about how he lost his powers by saying Zoom took them? I personally suspect the writers changed their minds about Zoom being able to steal powers so they are doing some retconning. The only plausible reason I could find for Jay to lie about that is if he's either working for Zoom and is misleading them or he is Zoom and is taking something to suspend his powers and it makes it look like he's dying. But I'm still leaning toward the idea that Henry Allen is Zoom.

*Why couldn't they have just tuned up Cisco's glasses to try to make them tap in to the frequencies on Earth2?

*They have a time crunch but Cisco and Barry decided to dick around & waste time. /facepalm

Edited February 10, 2016 by zannej

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, you're telling me that between CC and SC [& elsewhere], over 30 people - including enemies - know that Barry is The Flash??

 

Now that's what I call a super Secret Identity!

[zannej]

Yeah. Although, I think they made fun of how bad the team members are at keeping secrets. Hence neither Barry nor Cisco being able to keep their pieholes shut about E2. On one hand, I understood Dr. Wells' point. On the other, they are adults and what happened there still affected them. I wonder if part of it is that Wells is trying to detach himself and accept that he might never be able to go back and also that he feels a great amount of guilt over what happened there.

 

On a side note, I sort of wish that at some point someone had called Eobard/Wells "Professor" since he was in a wheelchair and his team was trying to find mutants/metahumans. Plus, since Eobard was actually a professor, it would have been funny to see his reaction.

[Trini]

So, you're telling me that between CC and SC [& elsewhere], over 30 people - including enemies - know that Barry is The Flash??

 

Now that's what I call a super Secret Identity!

 

I was actually going to update the List soon. Since the last update there's :

Vixen

Jesse Wells E-2

Iris E-2

Barry E-2

Killer Frost E-2

Death Storm E-2

Reverb E-2

ETA: Samantha ???

 

I might create a different section for Earth-2 characters; I'm not sure they should count the same as the others, if they are off in a completely different universe.

 

And then of course, the Supergirl crossover is coming up, so maybe I'll wait until then.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Trini

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Barry should have a T-shirt made that says I can neither confirm nor deny I am The Flash he can wear casually whenever he's out of the house. 

Edited February 28, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[slanoue]

Hi! I've been reading this thread. Very interesting. I've just finished re-watching the first season. Only a couple of storyline nitpicks bothered me. The science stuff I really don't care about. It's a comic book. I grew up reading it and never cared about science stuff, so why should I now? As they said in the "Mystery Science Theater 3000" theme song:

If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself 'It's just a show,
I should really just relax'"

 

It struck me as odd that Harrison used Hannibal Bates to pretend to be him, even though Bates could only LOOK like him and not have his powers. Why would Hannibal even go along with that, when he knew that it was a risk to his life?

 

There was something else that bothered me, but I can't think of it now.

 

I didn't think about this until my husband happened to see an episode, but Iris and Barry are basically brother and sister, so it's creepy that they were in love. Sure, they weren't related, but they grew up for the past 15 years as brother and sister. Joe was their dad.  This was not in the comics so they actually made this decision to make them have this relationship in the show.

 

I thought it was really stupid in the episode where they had to transport the prisoners that they thought it was a good idea to do it all at once (not even to mention trusting Captain Cold). And why freeze them? Why not sedate them as well as put them in chains? Even WITH Captain Cold's help, why not have that extra insurance? And why not transport them in separate trucks so they couldn't work together? I thought that was the stupidest episode of all of them.

 

I also don't like the way Barry's dad just left town so suddenly. That made no sense to me. I would think that he could at least stick around a little while. It's not like they had to show him that often.

 

i agree that it was strange that we never saw Gideon again, especially season 1. Did she disappear because Eobard Thawne did? If so, wouldn't all of Starlabs disappear as well? What about all of the future stuff there?

 

They never explained what Harrison meant when he said that the Flash took everything away from him. He really never explained why he hated him so much. It's hard for me to believe that after knowing Barry so long and guiding his life, and working with him and the others, that he could still hate him. I guess we're just supposed to believe that he was crazy and evil. That's the problem when you try to bring a comic book to life. Most comic book characters are 1 dimensional not just in artwork but in plot and characterization.

 

I really enjoy all of the shows, like Arrow, Flash, Legends, Supergirl, Gotham, et al. I try not to think too hard about plot or other stuff and just enjoy them for what they are :)

 

Suzanne

 

[zannej]

I'm guessing that Bates never thought any of the team would actually kill him and Eobard probably offered him his freedom.

 

I agree about the transporting of the prisoners. My solution: STAR Labs must have had some sort of airfield or some place where ARGUS could land to pick them up. So why did they need to bus all the way down to wherever they were going? And why couldn't they knock them out individually and have Barry transport them at superspeed to a holding cell where they would have their powers dampened?

There were so many other options that didn't involve Captain Cold and being in a circus truck.

 

As for Eobard's hatred of Barry and saying he took everything from him, I have  theory. Remember his speech to Eddie where he said think of your friends, your family, your coworkers, your job-- everyone you love. Now imagine it's all gone. So, I think that he had memories of his life, family, job, etc but that at some point (I'm guessing after he found out what timeline the Flash was from) he returned to the future only to find that the events where Eddie died had taken place and his family was gone. They never existed, therefore he had never existed. He had no job, no friends, no prestige, and no history. He was basically nobody. The speedforce or being in the timestream traveling somehow prevented the younger version of him from outright poofing from existence. And all he knew was that the loss of everything had something to do with the Flash (but he might not have known what) and he blamed him for it and hated him. That would make more sense to me than the whole bit about not being able to be the Flash and being crushed by it. And it would also explain why he thought killing Barry's mother would be justified-- if he believed Barry had killed his family, it might have motivated that level of revenge.

[Trini]

The 'Who Knows The Flash's Secret Identity' list: Special Multiverse Edition!

Earth-2:
Jay Garrick/Flash
Harrison Wells
Zoom
Jesse Wells
Iris West-Allen
Barry Allen
Killer Frost
Death Storm [dead]
Reverb [dead]

Supergirl Universe:
Kara Danvers/Supergirl
Cat Grant
JimmyJames Olsen
Winn Schott
Lucy Lane
Probably the Most of the DEO

Family/Friends:
Joe West
Henry Allen
Nora Allen [dead]
Iris West
Felicity Smoak
Oliver Queen/Arrow
Linda Park
Patty Spivot

Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:
Cisco Ramon
Caitlyn Snow
Eddie Thawne [dead]
John Diggle
Roy Harper/Arsenal
Ray Palmer/ATOM
Mari McCabe/Vixen

Friends of Friends:
Lyla Diggle
Ronnie Raymond /Firestorm [dead]
Martin Stein /Firestorm
Clarrissa Stein
Laurel Lance/Black Canary
Thea Queen /Speedy
Kendra Saunders /Priestess Chayara /Hawkgirl
Carter Hall /Prince Khufu /Hawkman [dead]

Villains/etc:
Reverse Flash/Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne [dead... in one timeline??]
Girder/Tony Woodward [dead]
Pied Piper/Hartley Rathaway
Capt. Cold/Leonard Snart
Plastique/Bette Sans Souci [dead]
Blackout/Farooq Gibran [dead]
Gen. Wade Eiling
Everyman/Hannibal Bates [dead]
Grodd
Malcolm Merlyn /Dark Archer
Vandal Savage

Other Random People:
That Dude Who Tried to Mug Barry in Season 1, Episode 7
Several League of Assassins Minions

Unconfirmed, but more than likely:
Tokamak /Henry Hewitt
Jefferson Jackson/Firestorm
Probably the Entire Staff of Iron Heights Prison
Probably Some People on That Train with Patty

41 people, plus 11 people who are dead.

[zannej]

I think Hartley is no longer a villain and is now considered a friend or co-worker or sorts.

So, Barry made changes that resulted in good things for Hartley somehow, but we don't know what else changed.

But, they know that it is possible for Barry to just keep running so fast in the pipeline that it opens up a portal, so, why would he need the thing that created the singularity? I'm guessing the time machine for Eobard was partially to protect him from the time wraiths but also because his connection to the speedforce could drop at any moment and that could be very bad for him.

 

Do we think that Rip Hunter and his time master associates know Barry's real ID?

[bettername2come]

We can add Quentin Lance to the ever-growing list of people who know Barry's identity. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by bettername2come

[Trini]

What happened on Arrow?

I want to leave Hartley where he is for now; maybe the next update I'll move him.

[bettername2come]

The Bee person from last season came back. Oliver told Quentin that last year Felicity helped Barry Allen take her down.

Edited April 1, 2016 by bettername2come

[Trini]

After reviewing the episode, I'm going to put Quentin Lance under 'Likely, but Not Confirmed', in the next update. I don't think it's certain that he knows Barry Allen = The Flash.

[slayer2]

Okay, help please, somebody. I don't understand how Jay Garrick is Zoom. Who was the other guy and how did Jay Garrick effectively kill himself? Are two of the Jay Garrick innocent victims and the one (Zoom) Jay Garrick evil? What is going on? S.O.S

[Trini]

The show hasn't fully explained yet. The next episode (April 19th) is supposed to tell Zoom's origin. There are so many theories; I don't want to tell you something and then be proven wrong 2 weeks from now.

[slayer2]

Ah cool, okay thank you! Nice to know I'm not alone in the dark.

Edited April 5, 2016 by slayer2

[zannej]

Slayer, from the promos they have indicated that Zoom is actually Hunter Zolomon-- a convicted serial killer on Earth 2. My pet theory is that there were two sets of twins on each earth-- Hunter and Jay. I think Earth2 Jay became the Flash but that Hunter captured him and put him in the mask and has possibly been harvesting DNA or blood from him to keep himself alive. I think the Earth1 twins were non-powered and that Jay was the bad guy-- a con artist and Hunter was just a normal guy. Hunter may have enlisted Jay to help him dupe team Flash in exchange for some reward.

 

My nitpick is about the inconsistencies with what they keep saying about the Velocity serum. When it was first mentioned, "Jay" was dead set against it. Harry said he had tried "five times" with the serum but it hadn't worked out. Then Jay said taking the serum is what made him sick. But he didn't show cellular degeneration until he took V6. But later he said he'd been taking V6 and it was what made him lose his powers. Uh... V6 didn't exist at the time he claimed to have lost his powers.

 

Fastforward to Velocity 9 and it seemed to be healing Jay (unless Jay and Hunter kept switching places and one of them had healthy DNA while the other didn't). But then in the Trajectory episode, they said V9 was what was causing illness. I don't think the writers were keeping things straight from one episode to the next. This is where a script coordinator is key in making sure continuity is preserved. Also, why would they call the stuff Trajectory made V9 if it was made independently and probably wasn't the same stuff? Also, Jesse collapsed and foamed at the mouth because the V9 was too pure? Uh, what did the do with the V9 they gave Jay originally? Does not compute.

 

Oh yeah, and unless they were giving Harry some blood back, how was he able to just give Jesse a bunch of blood and have it make her better? Did they do some form of dialysis?