Continuity, Nitpicks, and Science FAILs

[Sakura12]

I don't think she did; as far as I can recall.

 

He was talking to her while she was in her cell as Barry Allen and told her BF was gone. I'm assuming she could put it together that he was the one that caught her in the car. 

[Trini]

Right, but she couldn't see him because she was behind mirrored glass (so she couldn't see to escape). So I don't think she'd be able to ID Barry.

[bettername2come]

She's never seen Barry unmasked.

[Oscirus]

1. Cisco never called Tony Girder, that was the name of the thing he used to train Barry.

2. If you're going to have Iris ask questions mainly for exposition to the audience then don't label the screen anyway and make her look like a dumbass for asking these questions.

3.  Somebody really needs to regulate those trains. If it wasn't for that train hitting Grodd, those trains were due for a horrific crash.

[Oscirus]

If Flash was hiding his secret identity from Golden Glider, why was he using his regular voice?

Captain Cold killing the person who owes you money is not a smart way to get said money

Does erasing Cold's crimes from the computers and regular files suddenly erase his face from the minds of the police and people he robbed?

[MarkHB]

(Partial repost from the Rogue Air episode thread)

 

Not a complaint, but we've had the "where the hell is Central City" discussion in here before. Although the ZIP Code 74912 (from Iris's return address labels) does not exist, the prefix region 749 does... and it would seem that Central City is in eastern Oklahoma, probably on the Arkansas River near the border with Fort Smith, Arkansas.

[KirkB]

Not a complaint, but we've had the "where the hell is Central City" discussion in here before. Although the ZIP Code 74912 (from Iris's return address labels) does not exist, the prefix region 749 does... and it would seem that Central City is in eastern Oklahoma, probably on the Arkansas River near the border with Fort Smith, Arkansas.

 

 

So where might that, theoretically, put Starling?

 

Barry doesn't need to disguise his voice around Lisa. She doesn't know Barry Allen.

Edited May 13, 2015 by KirkB

[ottoDbusdriver]

So where might that, theoretically, put Starling?

 

Per the Arrow episodes when Thea and Malcolm were returning from Corto Maltese, a flight path back to Starling City was shown on Felicity's computer and it looked like Starling City was on the edge of Lake Michigan north of Milwaukee.

Edited May 13, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[quarks]

Yeah, but I think that bit was a production error. Everything else in Arrow seems to indicate that Starling City is in the Pacific Northwest, on the Pacific coast - the show even had a scene where the Queen's Gambit was heading off to the west for China.  Even if the Queens had decided to sail to China from Lake Michigan - which could theoretically be done, granted - they were sailing in the wrong direction.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Yeah, but I think that bit was a production error. Everything else in Arrow seems to indicate that Starling City is in the Pacific Northwest, on the Pacific coast - the show even had a scene where the Queen's Gambit was heading off to the west for China.  Even if the Queens had decided to sail to China from Lake Michigan - which could theoretically be done, granted - they were sailing in the wrong direction.

 

Completely agree that a Pacific Northwest location is what has been shown or implied throughout the series, so why they made that blunder with the flight info I have no idea.

[Trini]

Continuity issue:

With all the crossovers, anyone binge-watching this series is kinda screwed, right? If they don't also watch Arrow at the same time? For instance: Deathbolt was never introduced on The Flash, but then he's there in episode 22 as a Pipeline prisoner.

[Sakura12]

I don't watch Arrow anymore (haven't since the first ep of season 3) and none of that matters to me. I can just assume another meta was captured during a time I didn't see. 

[Actionmage]

I know that Barry and Co. had their hands full just as the ARGUS plane crashed, but...did Barry ever go check to see if there were survivors?  A throwaway line from Joe, as he entered the scene at the end, about how he just heard that the pilot and co-pilot  had burns but were expected to live. Or Ms. Waller thanks you for saving her agents.  Something.

 

Yes, I do wonder about this with many shows, but especially shows where people who can create sonic booms and time warps by jogging too fast are people who supposedly care about people.  For a guy who tried to save five criminals, the show  (which I am actually blaming), not addressing the unnecessary potential deaths of at least two agents should merit a line. 

[AmandaPanda]

(Partial repost from the Rogue Air episode thread)

 

Not a complaint, but we've had the "where the hell is Central City" discussion in here before. Although the ZIP Code 74912 (from Iris's return address labels) does not exist, the prefix region 749 does... and it would seem that Central City is in eastern Oklahoma, probably on the Arkansas River near the border with Fort Smith, Arkansas.

 

I've always read that Central City is supposed to be a stand-in for Kansas City. Doesn't quite fit with the ZIP code since KCMO is 640 and KCKS is 660. 

[AyChihuahua]

How can RF speedstervibrate the nanites out of himself when the nanites prevent him from speedstering?

[MarkHB]

I haven't watched Arrow long enough to have a handle on where they imply Starling City is, but most of the skyline establishing shots are of Boston.  The Queen Consolidated / Palmer Technologies building is 100 Summer Street.  There was at least one nighttime shot of a helicopter ride this season that went out along Back Bay, and the Prudential Tower and Hancock Tower (which isn't nearly as distinctive from the narrow sides) were visible.

 

I do realize that putting Starling City on the East Coast makes the Nanda Parbat shuttle train even more ludicrous, of course.

[Delphi]

Starling City uses multiple cities for the skyLine including Vancouver. In season one it was shown multiple times to be near Seattle. But I'm not sure if that is the case anymore. In season three it was hinted to be near Wisconsin.

Central City uses Portland as establishing shots, but in comics is supposed to be in Missouri.

With Central 600 miles from Starling in the arrowverse, the only logical way to see it is Starling in Wisconsin and Central in Missouri, which is a distance of 530 miles. Which also explains Starlings relative closeness to Bludhaven.

But visually I could never see a metropolis like Star City in Wisconsin.

[tarotx]

MG commented that Starling was based on Seattle. Other than zip codes and small things I think everything Works better if these shows take place on the West Coast. And Nada Parbat must be some obscure Island instead of a mystery Middle Eastern hidden city.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/110510547654/whats-more-possible-adapting-on-the-show-from-the

Edited May 19, 2015 by tarotx

[Delphi]

MG commented that Starling was based on Seattle. Other than zip codes and small things I think everything Works better if these shows take place on the West Coast. And Nada Parbat must be some obscure Island instead of a mystery Middle Eastern hidden city.

http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/110510547654/whats-more-possible-adapting-on-the-show-from-the

Then the whole 600 miles thing is complete bull. There is no way to rectify that in the slightest.

[tarotx]

Yeah Imo the 600 miles doesn't logistically work for any of the non powered people cross overs. I try to forget that number when fanwonking...

[Samsnee]

How far into the future is Eobard from? How can Barry still be old enough to be his enemy and yet Eddie Thawne is a distant relative? Clearly Iris is alive too since she wrote the article.

[rtms77]

How far into the future is Eobard from? How can Barry still be old enough to be his enemy and yet Eddie Thawne is a distant relative? Clearly Iris is alive too since she wrote the article.

He said 136 years which given that people can live much longer now doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  The professor said Eddie was his great gandfather about 6 times none of that makes sense either. And the supposed article is just 10 yrs in the future.

[Samsnee]

I don't read the comics. So I assume he traveled back to our future, became enemies of the future Flash, then traveled back even further to the beginning of the series?

[kikaha]

In the last episode Barry had to run at a speed of over Mach 2, to have a chance of going back in time.  Mach 2, as I understand it, means twice the speed of sound.  1300 mph or so.  Isn't that way too slow?  I would have thought the speed of light.  As it is, plenty of objects already travel much, much faster than that, without going back in time.  Yet Barry already did go back in time, several episodes ago -- running at less than 1400 mph? 

 

 

How far into the future is Eobard from? How can Barry still be old enough to be his enemy and yet Eddie Thawne is a distant relative? Clearly Iris is alive too since she wrote the article.

 

Maybe Barry's near-instant healing gives him a much longer life span as well.

[paulvdb]

I can't explain the first time Barry went back in time, but in the season finale he not only had to run that fast, but he also had to collide with a super-accelerated particle to create a wormhole.

[cambridgeguy]

According to Stein the wormhole had an energy of "at least 6.7 tera electron volts".  1 electron volt is equal to 1.6 E-19 joules and tera is 10E12 (i.e. a trillion) so that's a millionth of a joule.  One food calorie is the equivalent of over 4000 Joules so no problem, Barry can take care of that without breaking a sweat!

Edited May 20, 2015 by cambridgeguy

[nksarmi]

I don't read the comics. So I assume he traveled back to our future, became enemies of the future Flash, then traveled back even further to the beginning of the series?

This bugs me as well.  So is Barry still alive when RF comes into his power so they can become enemies?  That doesn't work for me.  Is it really Barry's grandchild (Bart right?) that RF is enemies with?  If RF travelled back in time to 10 years in the future (the article Gideon keeps showing), why does he want to get back to his time (136 years in the future) so badly? 

 

And what happens in 2024 when Flash disappears?  Is that the first time they both time travelled?  So 9 years from now, they time travel and that Barry knows his mom can't be saved?  That makes me believe Barry's mom always died but Wells keeps saying she didn't and that he speed up Barry becoming the Flash.  Yes sometime in that 10 year period, Barry still became the Flash so how much did Wells speed it up by?

 

And IF Wells/RF is telling the truth and he speed up Barry becoming the Flash - shouldn't Barry lose his powers when Eobard is erased from the timeline?  How does Barry even have powers at the end of the episode?

 

And why has no one talked to Gideon about anything???????

[DrSpaceman10]

And IF Wells/RF is telling the truth and he speed up Barry becoming the Flash - shouldn't Barry lose his powers when Eobard is erased from the timeline?  How does Barry even have powers at the end of the episode?

 

Exactly, how is Barry still The Flash in 2015? Eobard sped up Barry becoming The Flash, so if Eobard ceases to exist then Barry shouldn't have his powers yet. Eobard is also the reason that Barry met Caitlin/Cisco, so shouldn't Barry cease to know them? Shouldn't Barry's mom still be alive, because Eobard didn't exist to kill her?

 

So many questions, so few answers. 

[KirkB]

Exactly, how is Barry still The Flash in 2015? Eobard sped up Barry becoming The Flash, so if Eobard ceases to exist then Barry shouldn't have his powers yet. Eobard is also the reason that Barry met Caitlin/Cisco, so shouldn't Barry cease to know them? Shouldn't Barry's mom still be alive, because Eobard didn't exist to kill her?

 

 

Yes and yes. That's the mind twisting wonder of paradoxes. Without Eobard, Barry should have grown up with both parents, he probably wouldn't have become a forensic scientist, and the particle accelerator wouldn't have exploded for years. Though I suppose you could make the case that the temporal black hole at the end of the episode is keeping things from changing or unraveling.

[kikaha]

 

Exactly, how is Barry still The Flash in 2015?

 

 

Yes and yes. That's the mind twisting wonder of paradoxes. Without Eobard, Barry should have grown up with both parents, he probably wouldn't have become a forensic scientist, and the particle accelerator wouldn't have exploded for years.

 

All we know is what did happen in the previous timeline.  We don't know how things changed, if there is no Eobard.  Perhaps Barry's mother still dies, his father still goes to prison, and some other agency gives Barry his Flash powers. 

 

In fact, if Eobard has been wiped from existence, and Barry is still the Flash, doesn't that imply something else HAS to turn him into the Flash?  No shortage of possibilities for the writers to play with. 

[KirkB]

Actually, Barry having powers isn't an issue. He always got his powers from the particle accelerator. It was the real Wells who built it, that just happened years later. Eobard needed it to happen sooner.

 

On the other hand, Eobard killed Nora. Could she have died some either time instead of that night if Eobard never existed? Sure. Car wreck. Mugging. Hell, for all we know Henry could go crazy in the future and actually kill her. It's just that in the timeline we were given, Nora Allen was only dead because of Eobard Thawne and his never existing should have prevented that.

Edited May 20, 2015 by KirkB

[nksarmi]

Though I suppose you could make the case that the temporal black hole at the end of the episode is keeping things from changing or unraveling.

Ok sure - let's go with that!  I can use that to wait until Barry closes the black hole, but then they better explain how he still has powers, who knows who, etc....

Actually, Barry having powers isn't an issue. He always got his powers from the particle accelerator. It was the real Wells who built it, that just happened years later. Eobard needed it to happen sooner.

 

On the other hand, Eobard killed Nora. Could she have died some either time instead of that night if Eobard never existed? Sure. Car wreck. Mugging. Hell, for all we know Henry could go crazy in the future and actually kill her. It's just that in the timeline we were given, Nora Allen was only dead because of Eobard Thawne and his never existing should have prevented that.

We can handwave some of this away with the idea that Eobard lied about what the future was suppose to look like.  But I think the only way that worked was if Gideon provided those answers before things changed. 

 

So why in the world do you take a super villain at his word rather than consult that AI you apparently create in the future???????

[KirkB]

Maybe Gideon is the real villain here and she has been playing Barry and Thawne all along for...reasons?

[bettername2come]

This is the one that bugs me so much: Iron Heights. Okay fine, it could be some equal distance between Starling and Central and I'd believe it's a federal prison they both sent inmates to. But it's in the Glades! Because prisoners escaped during the Undertaking. And in Central City! Because Henry Allen is watching the black hole.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I do my best to overlook stuff in shows like this - and it usually works for me - but I've been wondering lately... just how in the world did that specific lightning bolt hit Barry at that specific time?

 

I get that the floating liquids indicate that RF was there in some way, to IDK, 'tag' Barry in some way so that the lightning hit him... but at the end of one of the earlier episodes, it shows him (as Wells) watching the event (in the Time Vault) from a hidden cam as if he was watching to see if indeed the PA-fed lightning hit Barry, and he had no hand in making sure it did happen like it was supposed to. 

 

So, did he indeed 'tag' Barry to get the lightning strike, or was it just "right place, right time" lucky for ET/RF?  It wasn't ever explained by ET/RF, was it, and I missed it?  I sure don't remember it, if so.

[KirkB]

The floating liquid thing is, I think, an indication that something time travel related is happening, not RF specifically.

 

It wasn't explained but I'll give it a shot. Thawne built the particle accelerator. It was designed specifically to 'explode' and give off energy he knew would turn Barry into the Flash. He may have programmed it, somehow, to fire a bolt at the spot where his cameras told him Barry was standing.

Edited May 21, 2015 by KirkB

[shrewd.buddha]

And why has no one talked to Gideon about anything???????

It seemed as if every episode during the first half of the season ended with Wells consulting with Gideon. Barry, Cisco and Catlin all know about Gideon and know how to access the 'time cave'  -- but everyone has conveniently forgotten about the A.I. from the future. 

 

To be fair, they have also forgotten about the super Gorilla Grodd living in the sewers and the four or five super powered criminals they allowed to escape from their illegal prison -- who they repeatedly said "would destroy the city" if they were ever free. 

 

The thing about planning to go back to the past to change the future .... there's really no rush.. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Trini]

I'm pretty sure Wells/Thawne took Gideon with him when he was found out. So they wouldn't have access to it.

[Samsnee]

Where does Barry's chin guard come from when he puts on the cowl? You don't see a chin guard when he the cowl is off.

[Sakura12]

Maybe it disappears when he removes it like Oliver's green makeup before he got the mask. All he had to do was take his hood off and the make up was gone. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Maybe it disappears when he removes it like Oliver's green makeup before he got the mask. All he had to do was take his hood off and the make up was gone. 

 

Not to mention the dark green paint, that shades the areas around Oliver's eyes, that the little domino mask doesn't cover - that we (the audience) are supposed to pretend we don't notice its blatant non-obscureness and imagine its just the mask or shadows from it.

Edited May 23, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[bettername2come]

Why is Wells surprised to learn he killed Cisco in an alternate timeline and that Cisco saw it? Hasn't he been spying on them constantly, watching them plan their trap, and assisting with the dream entering technology that let Cisco understand what was happening? 

[Trini]

From re-watching "The Man in the Yellow Suit":

The "speed mirage" explanation they gave later in the season about how Reverse Flash was able to fight with Dr. Wells(himself), works for that scene; BUT then Reverse Flash goes outside to fight with Flash -- Joe and Eddie are still alive and conscious in that room. Nobody noticed that Dr. Wells had disappeared? I don't think the "speed mirage" holds up with two locations so far apart.

[Trini]

Updating the "Who Knows The Flash's Secret Identity" list:

 

Family/Friends:
Joe West
Henry Allen
Nora Allen [but she died a minute later… in the past]
Iris West (finally!)
Felicity Smoak
Oliver Queen/Arrow
 
Co-workers/Partners in Crimefighting:
Cisco Ramon
Caitlyn Snow
Eddie Thawne [dead]
John Diggle
Roy Harper/Arsenal
Ray Palmer/ATOM
 
Friends of Friends:
Lyla Diggle
Ronnie Raymond/Firestorm
Martin Stein/Firestorm
Clarrissa Stein
Laurel Lance/Black Canary
 
Villains/etc:
Reverse Flash/Harrison Wells/Eobard Thawne [dead]
Girder/Tony Woodward [dead]
Pied Piper/Hartley Rathaway
Capt. Cold/Leonard Snart
Plastique/Bette Sans Souci [dead]
Blackout/Farooq Gibran [dead]
Gen. Wade Eiling
Everyman/Hannibal Bates [dead]
Grodd
 
Other Random People:
That Dude Who Tried to Mug Barry in Episode 7
 
Unconfirmed, but more than likely:
Dark Archer/Malcolm Merlyn
 
20 people, plus 7 people who are dead.

-----

 

I'm guessing there'll be 5-8 more by the end of Season 2.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Trini

[Maverick]

 Did Stein say they were going to inject a hydrogen proton into the accelerator?

[Trini]

Come on, Show. Don't do time paradoxes if you don't want to do time paradoxes. Erasing Reverse Flash should have had more repercussions. It bugs because I've seen at least one other show erase a character, and while it wasn't smooth and perfect, there were still consequences.

[bettername2come]

Netflixing: In 1x07 Wells just said Al Rothstein was killed in the particle accelerator explosion. As of 2x01 he wasn't even in town, and died of murder by his alternate universe self.

[KirkB]

I think the most likely explanation, at least from a comic book standpoint, is that the singularity itself IS the result of all the time travel shenanigans and paradoxes. Thawne not existing means Barry shouldn't be the Flash, Nora Allen wouldn't have been killed, Henry Allen wouldn't be in jail, 'Harrison Wells' couldn't have made a video confession because he was really off somewhere with his wife...and at that point the universe just couldn't handle it, had an aneurysm and tore open a hole in time and space and brought different worlds together because of course it would. 

[Oscirus]

Pardon my lack of science knowledge but is it possible to freeze laser beams?

Flash snatching Iris out of the air like that should've ended badly. I'm pretty sure that Gwen Stacey died in a similar way.

I get that there's a meta human prison but isn't the fact that the cell itself has to be specially adapted to the Meta-human being arrested make the meta jail well a regular jail until an actual meta is arrested?

[quarks]

Laser beams are basically just light. In a couple of extremely expensive experiments that did not involve just shooting a cold gun at laser beams, scientists did sorta "freeze" light using cold atoms, in the sense of making the light not move for a few seconds, but this required sending the laser light through a specially engineered crystal and then "freezing" it.   (Thank you, Google, for teaching me things.)  However, the lasers in the show looked like regular lasers, plus the experiment didn't make the light solid, it just made the light stop going forward for a bit. 

 

That's really not what we saw on the show. I don't understand why they didn't just have Captain Cold freeze the walls - that would have broken the devices emitting the laser beams.