S05.E20: The Devil You Know

[DittyDotDot]

Crowley offers to help the Winchesters.

 

It's really a shame they had to make Brady Sam's bestest best friend ever who toasted Jessica on the ceiling, but we've heard nary a word about in five seasons, only so that Sam can get his revenge here. There's really a lot of good stuff in this episode, but I can never get past that little detail to come out feeling ahead in the end. And, it's not because I don't think it makes sense that Yellow Eyes would've have had demons keeping an eye on Sam over the years, it's just so egregious they revealed Brady killed Jessica--sorry never, ever going to believe it, Yellow Eyes did the deed and nothing they say will ever convince me otherwise. Probably doesn't help that I find the actor playing Brady pretty typical over-the-top fare also.

 

Anyhoo, Mark Sheppard is absolutely fabulous (as he generally is) and the stuff at the beginning is pure gold at times. Edlund always had a unique and fabulous voice for Crowley. I love how Crowley doesn't lie to Dean exactly, but just doesn't tell Dean everything. Crowley's always best when he's got his own game plan and doesn't really feel the need to inform anyone else of it. I also love how when Dean's finally just has enough of Crowley's lack of sharing, he literally hits the brakes. And Crowley and his little doggy never fails to amuse me. Plus, They actually shot a scene where two hellhounds--invisible animals--fight and I find it interesting and fascinating.

 

So not at all bad here, just the bad was really, really bad, IMO. And not Man's-Best-Friend-With-Benefits-offensive bad, or Season-Seven,-Time-For-A-Wedding-cheesy bad, but screw-up-the-five-year-story-that-I've-invested-in bad. But hey, I could be worse, right? ;)

 

I'll just leave you all with a few delightful Edlund lines...

 

DEAN Who would say that, huh? Crazy people.

SAM Exactly.

DEAN Yeah, which we are not.

SAM No.

 

 

DEAN Shut up for a second, Sam!

CROWLEY Shut up, the both of you! Look...I swear... I thought the colt would work. It's an honest mistake. It's all part of the learning process. But nothing's changed. I still want the devil dead. Well...one thing's changed. Now the devil knows that I want him dead. Which, by the way, makes me the most buggered son in all of creation.

DEAN Holy crap. We don't care.

 

 

CROWLEY Your ignorance and misinformation --I mean, completely authentic. You can't fake that. What? I-it went like clockwork.

DEAN Not for me, you son of a bitch!

CROWLEY That's what you get --working with a demon.

 

 

CROWLEY God. The day I've had. Good news. You're going to live forever.

BRADY What did you do?

CROWLEY Went over to a demons' nest --had a little massacre. Must be losing my touch, though -- Let one of the little toads live. Oops. Also might have given said toad the impression that you left your post last night because you and I are --wait for it --Lovers in league against Satan.

 

 

CROWLEY Stay!

DEAN You can control them?

CROWLEY Not that one. I brought my own. (Crowley amusingly pats the hellhound beside him) Mine's bigger. Sic him, boy!

Edited October 26, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[ElleMo]

Was rewatching this but a local report breaks through and no I cannot see the end.  boo.   I know Sam kills him in the end.  Is it explained why Sam kills him and doesn't just exorcise him?  I Know he won't die if you exorcise him, but Brady was supposed to be Sam's good friend, so it would be nice to let him live.   

[DittyDotDot]

41 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

Was rewatching this but a local report breaks through and no I cannot see the end.  boo.   I know Sam kills him in the end.  Is it explained why Sam kills him and doesn't just exorcise him?  I Know he won't die if you exorcise him, but Brady was supposed to be Sam's good friend, so it would be nice to let him live.   

I think the idea is, since Brady has been possessed for a demon for over five years now, there wouldn't be anything left to save. Demons do tend to ride their meatsuits hard.  And, exorcising the demon doesn't stop the demon from possessing someone else and doing more horrible things. At this point, killing the demon was saving Brady, IMO.

Edited October 28, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[ElleMo]

3 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I think the idea is, since Brady has been possessed for a demon for over five years now, there wouldn't be anything left to save. Demons do tend to ride their meatsuits hard.  And, excoriating the demon doesn't stop the demon from possessing someone else and doing more horrible things. At this point, killing the demon was saving Brady, IMO.

 

Thanks. That makes sense. It was something that bugged me ever since I watched it the first time.

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, ElleMo said:

I Know he won't die if you exorcise him, but Brady was supposed to be Sam's good friend, so it would be nice to let him live.

Also while capturing Brady, Crowley pretty much bashed his skull with a crowbar - hard enough to knock the demon out even. I'm thinking if Brady's human body wasn't already dead, that likely would've done it, or perhaps at least caused some brain damage since that head wound wasn't given medical attention in any way.

In addition, Crowley did even more damage by carving into the host body to do a spell to lock the demon in Brady's body. So I'm not even sure if exorcism would've been possible without some damage. I don't know if the spell was like the brand Meg used to lock herself in Sam that could be broken, or if it was even stronger. My guess is it was stronger, or otherwise Brady could just reverse it. So I'm guessing that Crowley made it nearly impossible for the demon to be exorcised from Brady. That was part of Crowley's plan. To make it so the demon would be trapped - and therefore torture-able - in that body forever. It was one of Crowley's bargaining chips to get Brady to tell where Pestilence was, because now he had little to lose. Especially after Crowley also started the rumor that he and Brady were "Lovers in League Against Satan." That pretty much sealed demon Brady's fate.

[DittyDotDot]

13 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

In addition, Crowley did even more damage by carving into the host body to do a spell to lock the demon in Brady's body. So I'm not even sure if exorcism would've been possible without some damage.

Oooh, that's a good point too. I'd forgotten about Crowley's little sigil to keep the demon from smoking out.

[Hanahope]

Pestilence is sure icky.  I'm glad they reminded who Brady was as I didn't recall him.  It does make sense yellow eyed would watch him .

[DittyDotDot]

14 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I'm glad they reminded who Brady was as I didn't recall him.

That's because we never saw him--or heard of him--previously. That's kinda the fail of the whole thing for me. This random dude we've never heard about before did all this betrayal nonsense....really?

Although, I do sometimes wonder if originally they were hoping to get back the guy who was at the bar with Jessica and Sam in the Pilot?

[Hanahope]

Ah ok.  I just figured he was only briefly in the Stanford scenes.

[bettername2come]

I would've preferred if Brady had been that guy hanging out with Jess and Sam at the bar. Continuity, people, come on. I've never seen him in anything else, so maybe he doesn't act anymore. "They ate my tailor!" I keep finding new old favorites. "Position in communications" and "cutthroat world." Brady had good puns. Bobby and Sam on the phone talking and drinking liquor is nice. "Are you idjits tryin' to kill me?!" I appreciate Sam not wanting to make the call unless Team Free Will makes a unanimous decision. Character growth. I also appreciate Bobby calling Sam out on his self-control issues. Crowley killing off the human shields. This is why we don't trust demons, Dean! Okay and having the demon basically quote my complaint back to me creeps me out. "You son of a bitch! You introduced me to Jess!" Why must they bring out the Sam/Jess shipper in me? Eric Johnson has really improved since his stint on Smallville. "I told you!" "Oh, well good for you!" Winchesters sniping at each other is funny. Crowley coming back with the hellhound is a good character establishing moment. "Get the hell off my property before I blast you so full of rock salt you crap margaritas!" "Let's just say when they're getting their Grammys, they shouldn't all be thanking God!"

[DittyDotDot]

29 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I would've preferred if Brady had been that guy hanging out with Jess and Sam at the bar. Continuity, people, come on. I've never seen him in anything else, so maybe he doesn't act anymore.

Jamil Walker Smith is indeed still acting. I don't know in what currently, though, but I do know at the time they were making this episode, he was working on Stargate Universe. I believe he also dabbles in writing and producing.

I would've preferred they get him too. At least then I maybe could've forgiven them for the egregiousness of Braidy killing Jess just so Sam could have some revenge all these years later. 

Edited July 9, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Sam is just not very good at keeping up the lie once he gets caught - even behind a mask.  

Just an observations here - not trying to make this Sam vs. Dean or anything - although to be perfectly honest, I never even noticed it the first time through and probably never would have picked up on it this time except for the opinions expressed in that particular thread on this forum - and I wonder if the show itself is aware of how these things play out (probably not).  It's probably only for Plot reasons, but here's a good example of 'Dean trusts a demon and he's right to do so' even though it wasn't exactly  how he thought it would go, Crowley still basically held up his end of the bargain.  Whereas Sam trusting Ruby was wrong.  And it's not just Sam, because even later in this ep, Bobby trusts Crowley and he shouldn't.  Hm.  Like I said, part of me wonders if the writers/show even realize what they are doing with that  - even just a little?  Or if it is strictly for Plot.  On the one hand, I could believe that it's strictly for Plot just because sometimes the writers/show does seem pretty tone deaf about things - even the 'King of Pop' joke in this ep.  On the other, it seems hard to believe that the writers/show could be so blind when numerous fans can point it out.

Ah well, anyway...the first time I watched this, I didn't think twice about not having seen Brady previously.  I mean, there's a lot of Sam's Stanford years that we've never actually seen, (likewise a lot of stuff about Dean during that time) so that didn't bother me.  It still doesn't really.  I don't particularly count that as a continuity fail.  

Spoiler

Actually, if we're talking continuity, I like the call-back to the Grammy's line with Crowley meeting up with Russell Lemmons in 12.7 Rock Never Dies.

I think I've mentioned before, in some other thread I can't remember, that I read somewhere that Jess was originally supposed to be a demon.  This episode could still support that's what the showrunners had in mind with the writing.  I mean, DemonBrady introduced Sam to Jess.  So maybe Brady and Jess were collaborating.  And then the part where Brady talks about killing Jess and she thought he was her friend could still mean the DemonJess could have thought that DemonBrady was her friend since they were working together.  Hm...I'm not entirely convinced that Jess wasn't a demon.  

I do wonder though how Sam never picked up Brady was a demon, especially if he spent all that time with him trying to 'get him back on the straight and narrow'?  Was there never any sulfur left behind?  Of course, Sam didn't pick up on Meg right away either, but then he didn't spend as much time with her in close quarters as he allegedly did with Brady.  Also, was The Real Brady still in there when Sam killed the DemonBrady?  He didn't try to exorcise the demon and save his friend?  Wow.  

I liked the Sam and Bobby phone call - particularly the parallel of them both drinking.  I got to hand it to Sam - he's obviously holding his liquor better than he used to if that bottle was empty (or mostly) and he's still sitting upright and not passed out!

[AwesomO4000]

11 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

 Also, was The Real Brady still in there when Sam killed the DemonBrady?  He didn't try to exorcise the demon and save his friend?  Wow.

I'm pretty sure Brady was dead. If the many years of being possessed didn't do it, I'm pretty sure Crowley bashing in his skull - there was a definite "crunch" - did. And that was before Crowley carved into his chest. And since Brady's head was all bloody, Sam likely saw the head/brain damage after the burlap sack was taken off of Brady's head. And if all of that didn't end the chances of saving Brady, the stuff Crowley carved into Brady's chest trapped the demon permanently in Brady's body, so there was no exorcising him. Brady would have continued to be possessed. So basically in my opinion, there was no saving for Brady. His options - if he wasn't already dead... which was likely - were to be killed and freed (hopefully to go to heaven) or to be trapped with the demon, most likely to be caught and tortured for a long, long time by Lucifer.

[DittyDotDot]

6 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

I'm pretty sure Brady was dead. If the many years of being possessed didn't do it, I'm pretty sure Crowley bashing in his skull - there was a definite "crunch" - did. And that was before Crowley carved into his chest. And since Brady's head was all bloody, Sam likely saw the head/brain damage after the burlap sack was taken off of Brady's head. And if all of that didn't end the chances of saving Brady, the stuff Crowley carved into Brady's chest trapped the demon permanently in Brady's body, so there was no exorcising him. Brady would have continued to be possessed. So basically in my opinion, there was no saving for Brady. His options - if he wasn't already dead... which was likely - were to be killed and freed (hopefully to go to heaven) or to be trapped with the demon, most likely to be caught and tortured for a long, long time by Lucifer.

Yeah, the only way to save Brady was to kill him at this point, IMO. I know the point was to give Sam his moment of revenge, but I kinda wish they'd written it more like Sam was "releasing" Brady since the human was his friend before the demon possessed him.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Good point(s) @AwesomO4000!  I obviously hadn't thought it through that much.  :)

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I know the point was to give Sam his moment of revenge, but I kinda wish they'd written it more like Sam was "releasing" Brady since the human was his friend before the demon possessed him.

Absolutely.  I think this would have come across better for me also.  Although, to be honest, I don't know why they couldn't have done both - written it so Sam was getting his revenge on the demon that killed Jess and acknowledging that he was releasing his friend Brady at the same time.  

[Iju]

On 26/10/2014 at 11:22 AM, DittyDotDot said:

And Crowley and his little doggy never fails to amuse me. Plus, They actually shot a scene where two hellhounds--invisible animals--fight and I find it interesting and fascinating

my mother found them badass as well :)

--------

hooooooly smack...even JESS was planned in sam's life?!? so it's officially set in stone that even if sam had gotten his way, there was no way he could have escaped his hunter life. his life was planned even before he was born.

which makes it all the more disappointing that his psychic powers died with The Demon. i was getting such hype that he would keep his powers but instead it was the demon blood, ugh...

also brady was 100% lying on killing jess because The Demon had made it very clear he was the one by his (gross) line "But your mom walked in on us..." so yeah. i wasn't floored by that but that sam stood no chance of living alone. 

my mother appreciated sam not only staying in the house but sitting on the bed, his legs crossed....she thought he was so cute and pure, obeying dean and not attempt to break his trust.

idk about crowley man...ruby has beaten my trust down to a dead horse at this point. angels are jerks but they at least keep some truth to theirselves to warp your views. demons straight up lie.

P.S. brady looks and even slightly acts like milo yiannopoulus, lol. 

[The Companion]

On 8/6/2017 at 7:43 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, the only way to save Brady was to kill him at this point, IMO. I know the point was to give Sam his moment of revenge, but I kinda wish they'd written it more like Sam was "releasing" Brady since the human was his friend before the demon possessed him.

I agree. I think it would show consistency with the character arc as well. 

On 4/10/2018 at 10:19 PM, Iju said:

hooooooly smack...even JESS was planned in sam's life?!? so it's officially set in stone that even if sam had gotten his way, there was no way he could have escaped his hunter life. his life was planned even before he was born.

Poor Sam. Just like him mom in that respect. Here she is hoping for a normal life while demons and angels meddle.

As we approach the end of this season, the story feels rushed to me, which is a bit ridiculous for a season long storyline. Things like throwing the old friend we have never met into the mix without so much as a flashback or having Dean follow Crowley without some more discussion or hesitation. I think the problem for me is throwing in this last minute item quest and not having it be a goal from the moment they cut off War's finger and saved a town. If you can't get to the dictator, you take out his trusted advisors. You take out his generals. They verified the power is in the rings with Famine. When God says: "no thanks, I am in the bathtub," the next step should be to target Death and Pestilence. So having this become a new hunt feels wrong. And I think that initiating it earlier would have improved a lot of the season. If they talked about the failed hunt for these entities, Dean's decision is better supported. He could have pointed out they were spinning their wheels AND that 99 problems reiterated that even getting the horsemen wouldn't stop the bloodshed.  That they are two humans fighting  a good portion of hell. Then the revelation of the rings' power could renew that mission. 

There is also Crowley. Having them trust him or even follow him should come from a place of desperation. They should feel like they have been hunting these two for a long time and now the stakes are higher. Following a demon this soon after Ruby because he says their interests align? It doesn't work for me as written but I think it could have worked. I know a lot of people seem to like Crowley, and maybe he will grow on me. But I am not feeling him. If we were going to have an untrustworthy ally whose interests temporary align, I would have preferred Bela (unpopular opinion, I know).

The whole thing feels like one person outlined it and the other person wrote it. Maybe it was the assumption the show was ending which necessitated some changes. I don't know. 

Anyway, this episode brought all of that together for me. I just didn't love it. There were some good parts to it, and I actually did like the invisible hellhounds, but I have a feeling it isn't one I will be queuing up again anytime soon. 

[Katy M]

@The Companion.  Interesting. I actually did love this episode.  First of all, I love any pre-series glimpses we get of either or both of them.   Sam's pain at being manipulated once again was very real.  And liked the interaction between Sam and Dean when Sam ended up killing "Brady."  The only thing extra I might have liked was a deal like in Devil's Trap where real Meg was able to talk to them for a few seconds.  Sam could have apologized to Brady for killing him and Brady could have thanked him for setting him free.  Dude was posessed a long time.  But, it seems like most of Sam'e relationship was with Fake Brady anyway.