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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

Character Thread: Bashing on the Bravermans

Inquisitionist

By Inquisitionist
in Parenthood [V]

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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

Let's start with Zeek.  (my god, does anyone actually spell it that way?)  What exactly has this guy done to earn all the affection his kids and grandkids seem to have for him?  He always come across to me as not only curmudgeonly but downright mean and possibly misanthropic.  Was he the "bad boy" dad that let them get away with things, and they still warm to those memories?  Ugh.  Not a fan of Zeek (or, for that matter, of Craig T. Nelson, who famously proclaimed, "I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Did anyone help me out?  No.")

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TVForever

TVForever

 I agree with you. I've always considered Zeek as loving his family, but in  "my way or the highway"

fashion. He seems to have backed off a bit (prior to the surgery), but only because Camille was really starting to take the "highway" last season, after years of giving in to Zeek's tantrums. I attribute most of his crankiness right now to the aftereffects (physical and emotional) of such a big surgery. 

 

Oh Crosby. I was hoping that after seeing him and Adam almost switch places regarding the Luncheonette, that Crosby was becoming the more mature Braverman brother. Now I realize it will always be one step forward, two steps back with this guy. You have a wife and two very young children who depend on you-enough already with the motorcycle obsession. I get it- you still want to flex your testosterone and that's tough to do in a minivan, but surely there's a happy medium? A sportier car, perhaps? Pickup truck?

 

Poor Amber. She's become a hot mess, just like her mother has presumably always been. Thank goodness for Drew, who has always been more sensible, to the point that he now seems almost like the older sibling. Yes, his advice about Amber getting back to drinking and "toking" shortly after giving birth was bizarre, but I'll attribute that to his age, and just trying to make his sister feel better in the moment. Overall, it's been his advice that has kept her from making bad situations even worse.

 

I liked Camille's change of direction last season- please don't let her spend the final season with nothing to do but play Zeek's nursemaid/mother hen. 

 

Just some random musings on the show I love to hate. I'll miss it when it's gone.

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Cattitude

Cattitude

Let me unload my Julia baggage. I loathe her. ugh! She is so very controling, and judgemental and hateful and she NEVER appreciated having JOEL as a husband. Most women would die to have a manly man who happily raised his child while his wife made the money, but could also roll with all the punches being married to a she-devil involved.

I dislike her snarl and her bossy way and how when Victor turned out to be more trouble than love she wanted to GIVE HIM BACK and Joel had to force her to work through the hard stuff.

 

Can you tell I really don't like her.

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MaryPatShelby

MaryPatShelby

Let's start with Zeek.  (my god, does anyone actually spell it that way?)  What exactly has this guy done to earn all the affection his kids and grandkids seem to have for him?  He always come across to me as not only curmudgeonly but downright mean and possibly misanthropic.  Was he the "bad boy" dad that let them get away with things, and they still warm to those memories?  Ugh.  Not a fan of Zeek (or, for that matter, of Craig T. Nelson, who famously proclaimed, "I've been on food stamps and welfare.  Did anyone help me out?  No.")

I'm in agreement with everything you said. I hate his hair (surely there is a more flattering age-appropriate hairstyle for the actor). I hate the way he spells his name. He IS mean, and he comes across as a control freak a lot of the time. He just does not seem like a person the grandkids would be crazy about.

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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

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Someone asked in an episode thread if Crosby is the youngest.  In the movie, Diane Weist's character was the oldest sibling, followed by Steve Martin, Harley Jane Kozak, and Tom Hulce.  Their characters are very roughly the models for Sarah, Adam, Julia and Crosby, but I don't know if the birth order was maintained.  Anyone know for sure?

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AnythingCanBe

AnythingCanBe

Someone asked in an episode thread if Crosby is the youngest.  In the movie, Diane Weist's character was the oldest sibling, followed by Steve Martin, Harley Jane Kozak, and Tom Hulce.  Their characters are very roughly the models for Sarah, Adam, Julia and Crosby, but I don't know if the birth order was maintained.  Anyone know for sure?

 

I'm pretty sure Julia is the youngest.  I can't remember the context, but I remember Crosby making a comment to Jasmine a few seasons back about how Julia likes to boss him around even though she's younger.

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Literata

Literata

 

but I don't know if the birth order was maintained.  Anyone know for sure?

Birth order is Adam, Sarah, Crosby, Julia. They're in order in the opening credits. 

 

In the first season, which I just finished watching again, Crosby remarks that Julia is "younger than I am, but you'd never know it, the way she tries to boss me around." 

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joelene

joelene

Sharing the Zeek hate! I can't stand him. I've felt bad for Camille for five seasons now. It's kind of felt like an abusive relationship since the start. I was cheering for a divorce last season, but of course it wouldn't happen. No doubt the Braverman siblings would rally against Camille if she would've started those proceedings, so in that regard I'm happy I didn't have to endure that abuse as well. Doesn't help that I've had an irrational dislike of Craig T. Nelson since The District. And I never even saw that show, I was only bombarded with constant previews.

Joel used to be lovely but I really hope Julia gets to stay together with Hot Lawyer Guy.

Sidney is the worst. I doubt she'll get the comeuppance she deserves, though.

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alexvillage

alexvillage

 

Doesn't help that I've had an irrational dislike of Craig T. Nelson since The District.

I don't like Zeek either. My dislike of the actor is not irrational, though. I dislike him for his politics. Not that we are from different ends of the political spectrum but because he actually said pretty ignorant things just because he dislike the President. I thin that if you want to make an argument fine. Just make one that makes sense.

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jb1183

jb1183

(edited)

When this show started, I saw the Bravermans as a boisterous but ultimately more grounded and realistic television family than the Walkers from Brothers and Sisters. As the seasons have gone on, though, the Bravermans have proven much more obnoxious and over the top than the Walkers, IMHO. As prone to squabbling amongst themselves and making scenes as the Walkers were, they were mostly charming and likable people in their own right and were generally able to conduct their professional lives without flipping out at everyone they came into contact with.

Edited by jb1183
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AnythingCanBe

AnythingCanBe

Why is Ruby a m*****?  Ray Romano is almost 6'2" and Betsy Brandt is almost 5'9".  Meanwhile, Courtney Grosbeck tops out at 5 feet, even.  The height disparity is startling.

 

I've always thought it was equally hilarious that we're supposed to believe 6'4'' John Corbett and 5'9" Lauren Graham somehow produced Mae Whitman.  None of the Bravermans really look alike, but it sticks out more when it comes to height for some reason.

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backformore

backformore

Zeek is manipulative and controlling.  I can't stand him.   If MY father called one of my college student sons and encouraged them to skip classes and drive him around, or help him plan a trip, I KNOW my kids would respond, "sure grandpa, I have a week off at the end of the semester.  I can spend that saturday with you."   and then give him the date they are available.   Zeek is so used to being the center of the universe, and it's because everyone caters to him.     

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MaryPatShelby

MaryPatShelby

Just marathoned the last 3 episodes, and words cannot describe how much I hated Zeek during all three, and had a hard time mustering up any sympathy at the end. I can't imagine that's what the writers intended but I do question that storytelling arc.

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HyacinthBucket

HyacinthBucket

For some inexplicable reason, I waited until the last few minutes of the series finale to watch Parenthood.  It caught my interest, and I was delighted to find that Netflix had the earlier seasons.  I flew through Season 1 and loved it, but felt the first rumblings of irritation for Sarah, and now that I have completed Season 3, I can honestly say that I can't stand her.  While nearly all the Braverman family members have trouble with boundaries, (except poor, adorable Drew), Sarah is the WORST!  There is no bedroom, bathroom, or office that she hasn't barged into without an apology.  She doesn't care if the boss is there, or if someone is in the middle of an important meeting or telephone call.  Whatever stupid-ass problem she has, the whole world has to know about it, and it has to be NOW!  It's all about HER.

 

She has brothers; did she stop to think for a moment that whatever poor Drew was doing in the shower might be normal before she got Adam involved?  Did she stop to think of the awkward situation she put Adam in when she started batting her eyes at his boss?  People got laid off and she asked for a RAISE?  It seems as if there has been no situation where she can't win over someone by invading their space and insisting on telling her sob story.  Dating the teacher whom she knows her daughter is crushing on?  Kissing him in front of the school?  She constantly takes, takes, takes.  Demands, demands, demands.  Her children are allowed NO privacy from her spying and snooping, and she won't hesitate to read an entire embarrassing text out loud from someone else's phone.  (Poor Joel.  He sent a private, sexy text to Julia, but Miss Sara-I-Don't-Need-No-Stinkin'-Boundaries reads it to everyone.)  I've come to the point where I can hardly stand her. 

 

As I begin watching Season 4, will someone please reassure me that it's possible for me to like Sara once again? 

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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

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Continuing into S2, Kristina is bugging me a lot, too.   Ya know, "babe," sometimes your spouse's work commitments mean you have to reschedule "date night."  Deal with it.  And stop trying to run your teenaged daughter's campaign.  It's not about you.

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HyacinthBucket

HyacinthBucket

Continuing into S2, Kristina is bugging me a lot, too.   Ya know, "babe," sometimes your spouse's work commitments mean you have to reschedule "date night."  Deal with it.  And stop trying to run your teenaged daughter's campaign.  It's not about you.

 

 

Wait until Season 5 and her mayoral campaign!    

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takalotti

takalotti

As I begin watching Season 4, will someone please reassure me that it's possible for me to like Sara once again?

I don't remember which season had which Sarah storyline, but I'm sorry to say in general it just gets worse.

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HyacinthBucket

HyacinthBucket

(edited)

I don't remember which season had which Sarah storyline, but I'm sorry to say in general it just gets worse.

 

 

I'm getting lost in the seasons and story lines, too, but she has definitely gotten worse since I posted my last rant.  I feel sorry for her kids, who have to put up with her impulsiveness and her ever-present Boots of Righteous Indignation.  I hated it when she made up some stupid excuse to follow Drew to his then-girlfriend's house and their family dinner, and proceded to plant herself in the midst of them.  There must be something magical in her squinty-eyed smirk that make handsome men fall all over her, but I certainly can't see it.  And how did she become a building superintendent, of ALL things?  There must be a deleted scene somewhere in which she sleeps with the starry-eyed owner.

 

I've already cringed my way through S5!  I think I must have skipped a lot of seasons 2 - 4, so I'm catching those online.

 

 

 

I know I cut Christina a lot more slack than I do Sarah, but this campaign for mayor is ruining my love for Christina.  What has bothered me the most has pretty much taken place in one or two episodes:

 

She suddenly decided that she was going to run for mayor, and got angry at Adam (The World's Most Supportive Husband) when he didn't instantly support her, even though he raised a very valid concern about her health issues.  Furthermore, she didn't stop to think about how such a campaign would affect her family.  She didn't think how her house would literally be taken over with her campaign committee, and perfect strangers would be helping themselves to the contents of their fridge, cupboard, credit card numbers, every available space, etc.  She didn't think it was crossing a line to INSIST that Adam hit up some of his clients for donations to her campaign.  Ugh!  What a dreadful story line, and I haven't seen the ending yet! 

 

There is still a lot that I love about this show, so I will definitely stick it out until the end.  One of the things I have loved is Joel and Julia's strong marriage, so I am not too thrilled about where it appears to be heading.  Is NOTHING sacred??

 

Oops!  Another quick question.  Does ANYONE in this family have locks on their bedroom doors?  Sheesh!

Edited by HyacinthBucket
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cooper

cooper

Hello all you people outthere (excuse my english)

 

I´m german and watching "Parenthood", just now reached S3/E4. And more and more I get the feeling I had to kill one or two or I don´t know how many of these horrible members of this terrible family. Everyone proceeds against common sense. Everyone. Primarily the wifes (may be somtimes excepting Grandma and Jasmin). I ask myself how stupid they will be yet. Electrocution is all what wandering through my brain. - But nevertheless I´m watching. Am I masochist?

 

Have all a nice weekend.

Cooper

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cooper

cooper

Yeah, Joelene, It might be. I´m an autor, means a wrighter of Comedies for the theatre. And I ask myself, what the intention was from Jason Katims? To show americans or to caricaturar them. Now I´ve got S4 E11 -  I have made me to be strong and want to stay... @greenscreen: then we are two. When I see her (Kristina), I slowly turn me in Dexter. Let the sunshine in. Greetings Cooper

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cooper

cooper

Hello people. I know exactly whether I will now give the following from me or a spade fell in Wyoming, it comes out the same. Anyway I got to increasing due to my psycho-hygiene. And so read, who enjoys it:

 

You can judge a series by three criteria: a) the story, b) the staging, c) the actors. OK, this "Parenthood". 

 

To a) The story is so easy to see through, and predictable what's going to happen. Inexperienced members of Bravermans (I can no longer hear this name) show professionals, how is a thing to manage. This is of course nonsense. Looks and gestures tell from the outset how the action continues. This is no suspense but in the long run it is bored. Yawn. No suddenly surprises. And again, and again happy ending. Want to puke. Note for the story: below average, 1 star.

 

To b) Each of the directors leads the actors constantly on the same mental path. None of the characters evolved mental. That is unrealistic and stupid. There are too many scenes that are similar. Always, you have the impression that you have a perpetual Déjà vu. These directors have dialogues which are superfluous because they describe what we have just seen. For what? Note for the staging: average, 2 stars.

 

To c) Oh, man. Here, I don't know where to start. Why, everything in the world, chooses Peter Krause always roles of men who have no balls? By the way included a hallmark of all male members of the Bravermans. Joe included. So, you must really have a box of calmative agent on the Chair to not wake up with scream cramps the neighbors, when you see the female actresses. One dumber than the other. The worst of all Kristina. This woman is a pain. A misfortune. A punishment of God. In each episode, there is at least one reason to kill Kristina. This also applies to Sarah and her daughter. Sarah builds ever shit only in their whole life and so screwed up the lives of their children, but constantly confronts them with smart shits. Unbearable this. The only tough women seems (!) to be Jasmin and Heddie.

The grandparents are the cause of all evil. (Or Vietnam?) Zeek, a typical american?  No! All over the world are Zeek´s. This intolerable and annoying species of better knowledgeable crab. Only congratulations at this point to Craig t. Nelson for the appearance of Zeek.- Totaly 3 Stars.

 

Again to Peter Krause: I hope he has not ruined his career with the role of Adam. This was not a serious spectacle of him. What a pity.

 

Conclusion: I've watched the final episodes only with time jumps because I could no longer see the faces and hear the words. It was a trip with the ghost train. On a formula: I've seen before yet never such a big bullshit.

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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

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I'm currently watching S2 for the first time and have just reached the point where Amber scores 2250 (out of 2400) on the SAT exams.  Yeah, right.  She must have had incredible luck when she randomly completed the multiple choice questions in the math section.

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HyacinthBucket

HyacinthBucket

(edited)

Cooper, I couldn't stop laughing through your comments!  I enjoyed Season 1 so much, but then certain characters (and actors) began to irritate me to the point where I felt I had to fast-forward through their scenes or go crazy!  Sarah was the character I could not tolerate, followed closely by Kristina. It's just as well you did a time jump to get to the ending.  I'll have to admit that I loved the series finale, although part of it was because I never have to see Sarah again.

Edited by HyacinthBucket
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Irritable

Irritable

I've seen before yet never such a big bullshit.

 

 

This is one of the very best things I have ever read and I want to start incorporating it into my daily conversations.

 

I have been marathoning this show on Netflix, and it has taken me all the way to the middle of Season 5 to finally hate Zeek a little less.  Like others, I also strongly dislike the actor, but I've been able to set that aside for other people if their characters are endearing, so I think most of my problem is with Zeek himself.  Ugh.

 

Amber is by far my favorite out of everyone.  Mae Whitman plays her perfectly and her lines are just good.  With another character, the fact that every guy who meets her falls hard for her in 2 seconds would annoy me, but with Amber I'll allow it.  With Sarah, however, all these men that find her so fascinating and amazing...I don't get it. 

 

The kid who plays Drew is endearing because his smile is so sweet, but to be honest, as nice as his character is, he's also incredibly bland.  He's not funny or interesting, he's just nice with a cute face.  Bores me to death.

 

I've come around to Christina.  Monica Potter's scenes with baby Nora were so good and natural that I suddenly saw her more as the image of kind, loving perfection she's supposed to be on the show.  The campaign was stupid and a waste of time, but I guess in a way it was nice that she got to do something besides just be a great mom all the time.

 

Love Jasmine and Jabbar, they make Crosby tolerable for me.  That whole family unit grew on me pretty quickly, and I was surprised because normally the "Guess what, you have a kid you didn't know about!" plot gets on my damn nerves. 

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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

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Amber is by far my favorite out of everyone.

 

Except that I could usually count down to the second when she would start crying, and it happened far too often. 

 

I probably enjoyed Crosby the most.  He was funny and showed some real growth throughout the series. 

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Irritable

Irritable

True, Amber did cry too much, but she always seemed to have a good reason for it.  Mae Whitman has been the best at crying convincingly on cue all the way back since Hope Floats.  I might even have to see "The DUFF" against all my better judgment, just because I love her so much.

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cooper

cooper

OK, people. You can see that so. Or you can see it so. I see it so. - No matter what we and the others watch, listen to or read. You will never get a uniform opinion. Thanks Zeus, I can only say. Of course, the actors have found the characters of their roles. The only problem is, in the course of time they no longer play their roles, they caricature you just yet. And so they rob them the initial (S01E01) credibility. On german, we say: they play punch and Judy show. - But what is it. They do it in the sense of entertainment. And so people like we may grumble a bit. And as we are, we make it obedient. Have a nice weekend everybody. Good luck and good night.


Correction: they caricature them just yet. Sorry, (stupid german)

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Artsda

Artsda

(edited)

 

 

(except poor, adorable Drew), Sarah is the WORST!  There is no bedroom, bathroom, or office that she hasn't barged into without an apology.  She doesn't care if the boss is there, or if someone is in the middle of an important meeting or telephone call.  Whatever stupid-ass problem she has, the whole world has to know about it, and it has to be NOW!  It's all about HER.

She has brothers; did she stop to think for a moment that whatever poor Drew was doing in the shower might be normal before she got Adam involved?  Did she stop to think of the awkward situation she put Adam in when she started batting her eyes at his boss?  People got laid off and she asked for a RAISE?  It seems as if there has been no situation where she can't win over someone by invading their space and insisting on telling her sob story.  Dating the teacher whom she knows her daughter is crushing on?

I found Sarah the worst also and thinks she gets even worse in season for. She is her own worst enemy, she didn't think twice before moving Drew in with the teacher never thinking of Drew first. Then she treats her fiancee like crap, puts Seth first (kisses him) then with Ray Romano and treats the fiancee horribly some more until he can't take anymore. Then Drew has to pack up and move back in with the grandparents when he didn't want to movie to begin with. 

 

 

You have a wife and two very young children who depend on you-enough already with the motorcycle obsession. I get it- you still want to flex your testosterone and that's tough to do in a minivan, but surely there's a happy medium? A sportier car, perhaps? Pickup truck?

 

He did have a sporty car before the minivan, Jasmine made him get rid of it for the van while she got to keep her VW Bug. Despite the fact Crosby had already sold his houseboat and motorcycle for their house. 

 

Jasmine was pretty up there as a worst character for me. She was so controlling and never sacrificed anything, yet Crosby had to be the one to sell his boat, sell his bike, sell his car. While she keeps all her things. I was glad when Crosby finally bought a bike again on his roadtrip with Zeek.

Edited by Artsda
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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

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Did the show ever address where Crosby's first name came from?  The other siblings have such traditional first names (Adam and Sarah are Old Testament names and there is a St. Julia in the Catholic canon).  Crosby sounds like someone's surname was usurped.

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chocolatine

chocolatine

On 3/18/2015 at 0:24 PM, Inquisitionist said:

I'm currently watching S2 for the first time and have just reached the point where Amber scores 2250 (out of 2400) on the SAT exams.  Yeah, right.  She must have had incredible luck when she randomly completed the multiple choice questions in the math section.

I started watching the show on Netflix and am into Season 2, and I just had to comment on this. I hate the "kid with average grades gets a surprisingly high SAT score" TV trope, but what made it so much worse here is that Amber - who supposedly scored 770 out of 800 in math - needed to do carry-over addition out loud to add up her individual scores. I mean, come ON! That's the math equivalent of mouthing the words when reading.

Another reason I just had to post is Adam and Kristina's abominable parenting of Max. They've created a monster. I have a younger brother who's on the autism spectrum, so I have quite a bit of experience with this. My brother was also prone to tantrums and meltdowns at the slightest deviation from his routine, and the way we got him through that is that he was held accountable for his behavior and we didn't let him get away with anything just because he was "special". He had to learn to manage his feelings in a calm and constructive manner. It's not enough for someone like Minka Kelly's character to come in once in a while and try to get Max to behave like a decent human being. The whole family needs to reinforce those concepts with him all the time.

My dislike for Kristina culminated in the incident when Max wasn't invited to a classmate's party. Kristina confronted the girl's mom, who explained that the girl didn't want to be around Max because he's disruptive of other children's play. You'd think that would have motivated Kristina to take a hard look at her and Adam's parenting, but no. Instead she guilted/bullied the mom into making her daughter spend time with Max, even though she wouldn't dream of making Max do anything he doesn't want. What a piece of work!

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bonete112

bonete112

I started watching this show recently and I am at S4 Ep. 1. I really like it, but I have to admit that all of the characters irritate me at some point or another and recently Sarah got on my nerves. I don't know if it is LG or the character... I liked Gilmore Girls but I always thought that Lorelai's character was a little over the top and LG plays Sarah the same way, the same quirks, the same "oh-I'm-so-cute-everybody-likes-me" attitude and I think that there are certain things that stop being cute when you are a grown woman. She just comes across like an immature and annoying kid.

I also started noticing what many people say: these people talk over each other ALL THE TIME. I understand that it usually happens when you're having an argument but not all the time... they don't stop and it is so irritating...

And I also don't like very much how self righteous Adam and Kristina can be, especially her...

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chocolatine

chocolatine

On 1/12/2017 at 10:16 AM, ByTor said:

Kristina and Max became SO horrible as the series went on that I had to quit during season 4.  

 

On 1/15/2017 at 4:24 PM, MaryPatShelby said:

Yeah, just wait.  By the last season, well, let's just say that Kristina learns nothing over the years and the parenting of Max makes the show nearly unwatchable.

Yep, I'm out. Just watched the episode where Max physically attacked Jabbar for not wanting to eat lunch together, and Adam and Kristina not only don't discipline him but continue to molly-coddle him and tell him that the punishment imposed by the school (detention & writing a letter of apology) is unfair.

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Trace

Trace

I have been binge watching this show on Netflix.  Wow - where to begin.  I will begin by saying this show should have been called THE ASS BURGERS.  The adults yell and scream at each other.  No one listens to anyone else.  The children are spoiled, entitled little shits whose favorite phrase is, "It's not fair!".  It literally took FOUR FREAKING SEASONS for Craig T. Nelson to utter the words, "life's not fair". I shut down my kids at age two with this wisdom and it worked liked a charm. I did it consistently, every time, and it sunk in with them.  This show is Parenthood Gone Bad.  Gawd.

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