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S04.E04: Brotherhood

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Damn, they keep pulling the same trick and I keep falling for it. Although, the way he spoke, I had a feeling he was more than just muscle. I look forward to his future interactions with Elias.

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Holy crap, this episode was boooooring. It was choppy and way, way too labored, the kids should have been sympathetic and compelling but totally weren't, and apparently NYC is NOT full of cops who could have helped our guys (seriously? There were no cops that could have gotten to John and Lionel faster?). And the humor was trying way too hard, most of it was groan-worthy. You could see the double-cross coming from a mile away, so that wasn't any sort of twist. Though I'm sad the DEA agent can't be a recurring ally--I really liked the actress and thought she sparked nicely with John. But I also DGAF about the Brotherhood. They're just not interesting or compelling. I think the reveal of Dominic was supposed to be some big thing, but it was just meh to me. Bring back Samaritan, please.

 

John's cover as a cop is officially uber boring as well.

 

The best parts of the episode were Shaw trolling Harold and, later, Link, and the Harold-Elias showdowns on the subway.

 

I understand why they don't have Root in every episode--and I do actually think it's wise--but still, an episode without Root is like a day without sunshine. She just injects such caffeine into the show's blood.

 

Overall, easily the weakest episode this season, imo. The only consolation is that next week looks to be 500% better.

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Yes, I thought he seemed too smart to explain that he was called Mini because he was big. Nicely done, show.

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Yeah, I was bored too. Because this seems like a retread of the HR storyline, which I HATED. I don't like the small arc storylines, it's really just filler so they can pad out a whole season. At least next week has Root shooting things, always a favorite for me.

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It wasn't the greatest episode.   Really all it took was a phone call to get the kids in the same foster home?   

 

But it did have one big great shining spot that made it a postive episode.   None of that pyscho morality play that is Root.

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Dang!  I love this show.  So excited to have Elias back in play, was hopeful seeing him in earlier ep.  And Reese/JC looks so good when he smiles.  We need to see more of that, although it doesn't really suit the character - Reese isn't a "smiley" guy.  Also loving the new police captain, and her relationship (non-romantic) with Reese. And Reese still wanting to be a good cop.  Also really liked Harold's purple suit jacket. 

 

I'm wondering if delving into/being impacted by the Brotherhood is what may(will?) expose them to Samaritan.

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The only thing interesting is the conversation that Finch and Elias had on the subway. The moral twisting that all have done with Elias in some warped struggle of survival is a nice layer..

Other than that, not a thing interested me..except the sight gag of Bear with the homework...

Still, last week's episode was so good, it's okay to have a clunker every now and then.

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I was bummed that Lennix turned out to be bad (though I had a feeling it was leading that way).  I liked her and she had good chemistry with Reese.

 

I always keeping falling for the same trick too and so does the team with Mini.  I like having another player out there.

 

Great stuff on the Elias front (EC was terrific) and I like him trying to figure out just what is going on.

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You know, I just realized part of the reason I didn't like the episode: no one from Team Machine interacted face-to-face, I don't think (and even Reese and Fusco, the only core characters who shared screentime, shared all of like 3 minutes). The ensemble cast's chemistry is one of the best things this show has going, so any episode that puts them off on their own little islands is not going to be successful for me.

 

Also, I still can't get over the suspension of disbelief required to think a) there weren't dozens of NYC cops John could have called to help and b) that Fusco wouldn't have brought serious backup with him as well. This kind of manhunt-for-Reese plot would have worked well in the first few seasons--hell, the manhunt for John/the corrupt DA guy (his name escapes me right now) did work well in 'The Crossing,' it was utterly fantastic--but it doesn't make sense when Reese has the NYPD behind him. It felt like they were going for an "old-school" episode but forgot that the rules of the new world don't really lend themselves to this particular plot.

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I figured early on Lennix was going to be the mole, so that wasn't all that surprising; although, I did think there was some bantering going on with Reese, so if she didn't become one, I figured there was some kind of chemistry test going on with her and The Captain, to get him a new love interest.  On the other hand, I didn't see Mini being Dominic coming.  Interesting choice, even though part of me was hoping since they got Jamie Hector has his main henchman, it would be another guy from The Wire.  According to IMDB, the actor has only appeared in a Law & Order: SVU episode before this, so TPTB must really be impressed with him.  He has a lot to live up too, when it comes to big baddies.

 

Speaking of big baddies, Elias!  I could watch Enrico Colantoni and Michael Emerson square-off against each other, for an entire hour. I love that this new situation has made the gang have to rely on him even more.  I'm sure they can only trust him for so long, but I do believe he really wants to help them, as long as he benefits as well.

 

Was glad Fusco saved the day, but I do wonder why he didn't bring more back-up.  Unlike the norm, this case was actually out in the open, so it wasn't like they had to hide the fact that "Riley" and the kids were in trouble.

 

Interesting that Shaw basically got played by Mini.  He knew about the tracking device and everything.  I guess no one is perfect.

 

Oh, Bear.  Why must you make Finch's job even harder then it already is?

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Kind of figured this one would be a clunker from the beginning. The trope of street-wise kids trying to overcome just comes across cheesy in a show like this.

But then Reese smiled, and suddenly it is the best episode EVER.

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Interesting that Shaw basically got played by Mini

 

This I cannot believe.  It's got to lead somewhere to her knowing or suspecting.  However, it has been shown she's a follow the orders kind of gal, so...maybe. But lately she does a LOT more thinking things through.  Her face when she said, "you recognize a killer?" was so Shaw, I'd probably NOT recognize it being blinded by her beauty instead - which would be bad for me, eh. 

 

I thought it was a typical throwback to the way things were kind of case and the young boy, especially, did well.  Heck Reese smiled!  It paralled Shaw telling the little girl the life as a guardian of an eccentric billionaire couldn't be all bad - which I always wonder if she's still being taken care of.

 

Next week Root says there's no way we all survive...no one's believing this?  I hate it when she says that. 

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Next week Root says there's no way we all survive...no one's believing this?  I hate it when she says that.

Oh, cool. Carter-type foreshadowing. I guess she and Samaritan leave together, then.

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First episode in a long time that disappointed.  (Although Elias is always welcome on my screen.)

 

ETA:  From the ending, I assume we will see the kid again in some capacity, since he's now on the Brotherhood radar. It's too bad that I don't care about this SL. 

Edited by tessaray
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Damn, they keep pulling the same trick and I keep falling for it.

Right? How many times are they going to pull off these great reveals? I actually suspected Lennox might be Dominic, I also suspected it was Link (even throughout the last sequence I wasn’t sure how it would go, which one of them it was) or even Elias himself. But Mini? I hate and love the writers for always surprising me like this. Damn. And the clues were all there, as always. Shaw kept saying how resilient and skilled he was, he was all 'they call me Mini' (but he never gave her an actual name). Damn. It helped that the actor was an unknown (though not to me; I do remember him from that SVU episode last season with the hazing in the football team at Hudson U - where else?). If they had flipped the casting around, having Jamie Hector (who, by the way, is amazing) play the part, it would have been obvious. Just. Awesome.

 

I loved this episode, I had a hard time guessing where it was all going. I was so involved in the build-up regarding Dominic, and this episode especially felt like it was building up to something big (which ended up being the actual reveal). Which, damn. The pacing of the show remains outstanding. This is only episode 4 and we already know who Dominic is. I have to say, I actually doubted the writers for a minute, I thought we might not find out for a while. On another show the reveal would have played out over the midseason finale. But not on Person of Interest. The entire episode had me on edge, as I said, feeling like we were biding time until something big went down, with the tension ratcheting up. And in the end, boom. ‘You just did’.

 

This was also a very old school episode and i loved it. It could have been a season 1 or 2 episode. A lot of Reese, something I had missed (what with Season 3 being lighter on his scenes) and, what is more, a lot of emotional Reese. Jim Caviezel had some fantastic moments; ‘you can't make something right by doing something wrong’? A lesson Reese himself has had to learn the hard way. I also liked that Reese was being real (if not harsh) with the boy. You could see the boy appreciated it. And we even got the Caviezel teary eyes I had so missed. Reese has always been especially sensitive when it comes to kids and I love seeing it. JC even made me tear up when his voice cracked at 'You go. Take care of your sister.’. Aw.

 

I liked the kids, I got emotionally attached to them. They were good little actors. And I also liked Lennox, the DEA agent. She was badass. I liked that she took care of business while her male partner was barely shown. It's the little things, seeing women in these roles. I also immediately suspected her as the mole, of course. She was a lot like Elias, she bonded with Reese and she was vaguely off-putting, what with the amount of trust she seemed to show Reese. Nice little showcase for the actress and it gave us some great Reese moments as well.

 

The ending was very ominous. What with Lennox getting killed and ditched like a piece of trash, and what with Dominic saying they’d help release the kids’ mother so the kids would owe him. And, of course, ‘we all die in the end’. And all that after that lovely, heartwarming Reese scene with the kid (‘a cop, like you. But I shoot less people.’). So dark. This is the Person of Interest that I love.

 

But, ultimately, this could not really have been a S1/2 episode. As stand-alone(ish) as it was. Because the threat of Samaritan still looms. And those two great scenes with Elias and Finch demonstrated that brilliantly. Elias is just so very smart, and it was amazing how he seemed to pick up on everything (he deduced Harold was in academia, he knew Reese was now a detective. Which, indeed, can put him in danger.). Of course he would confront Finch. And it’s amazing how Enrico Colantoni can be so menacing in such an understated way (much like Michael Emerson, and damn if those two together aren’t just fantastic). It had been a while since we saw that side of Elias and it was great to be reminded of it. That moment got me to sit up. And, of course, someone else was bound to notice things had changed. It makes perfect sense that this person would be Elias, the chess master (which, again, continuity!); that he would put all the pieces together. Or, well. Almost all.

 

I wonder if Samaritan will use the Brotherhood or Elias to track down the team (hell, I wonder if it's already doing that). Elias in particular knows way too much. What if Samaritan makes that connection? That could be a great reason to have him featured so frequently this season. I don't think this is a retread of HR at all; I think it looks that way now, but it'll all turn out to be either connected to Samaritan, or the big break Samaritan needs to flush out the team.

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Right? How many times are they going to pull off these great reveals? I actually suspected Lennox might be Dominic, I also suspected it was Link (even throughout the last sequence I wasn’t sure how it would go, which one of them it was) or even Elias himself. But Mini?

 

I went through that whole list of suspects too.  I thought it would be Lennox, her mostly unseen partner, or Elias.  It wasn't until the beginning of the scene in the van, that the shoe began to drop for me.

 

Part of me is annoyed that they're (apparently) starting on a new big bad, who's nothing but another clever drug kingpin, but I have to remind myself that the team can be just as easily taken out by a street criminal as Samaritan.  

 

I love Elias and hope that he doesn't get taken out this season or betray our Scoobie gang.  I noticed that the camera "box" in the subway scene was white.  That means that, as far as the machine goes, he's just an ordinary citizen, right?  If he does figure out what is going on, which way will he jump?  Samaritan is a much better bet, but I think that he would much rather live in a world without it.

 

Much of the episode this week was a bit of a letdown and somewhat boring, but the end reveal and the conversations with Elias rescued it for me.  The writing on this show is really wonderful.  

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As a set up for the new antagonists, not bad. Never suspected Mini. Always love Elias. Bit slow in the middle but overall - good.

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I don't think this is a retread of HR at all; I think it looks that way now, but it'll all turn out to be either connected to Samaritan, or the big break Samaritan needs to flush out the team.

I agree that the Brotherhood will tie into Samaritan in some way, either as its tool or the way Team Machine is exposed. But it can do that and still be a (boring) HR/Elias retread.

Edited by stealinghome

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Interesting that Shaw basically got played by Mini
This I cannot believe.  It's got to lead somewhere to her knowing or suspecting.  However, it has been shown she's a follow the orders kind of gal, so...maybe. But lately she does a LOT more thinking things through.

 

Mini coming out on top wasn't to show that Shaw is cognitively limited (which is what I assume "follow the orders" is meant to suggest); it was to show how very, very good Dominic is.  The DEA hasn't been able to identify him, Elias's network hasn't been able to identify him, a large majority of his organisation doesn't even know Mini is Dominic, and Dominic is the only one (out of Finch, Fusco, and "hell, even Reese") who has found one of Shaw's trackers. Even so, Dominic had to reveal (lose) one of his stash houses to Shaw.  I hope their encounter pays off down the road; i.e., that the Brotherhood/Dominic story is not handed over solely to Reese.

Edited by DEM
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Honestly? I don't see any plot which gives us more Reese, Finch, Fusco and Elias being boring. As someone who watches what's on the screen and isn't really interested in building a head canon for the murky cyberworld they're giving us weighty hints about and not showing, pretty much anything would be less boring than watching everyone run around in circles for some vague reason while Root makes crazy eyes and emits gnomic utterances. 

 

Mileage varies, of course.

Edited by Julia
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I was happy to see Elias again, but where was Scarface?! 

 

The sight-gag shout out to the origins of Bear's name was so cute.

 

Could see Mini as Dominic a mile away (and the DEA mole a block) but it shows how clever he is to hide amongst his soldiers.  Wonder if Decima is behind the Brotherhood, as they were amongst the Odom Group?

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Could see Mini as Dominic a mile away (and the DEA mole a block)

 

I didn't see Dominic as Mini until near the end (but before the reveal) - but anyone who likes word games should have picked up on Dominic.  I thought the DEA chick was okay, until she wasn't, of course - I figured it was going to be her partner since "He's the only one I trust".

 

Loved Elias and Finch together. 

 

I did not like that Dominic has targeted Malcolm, to recruit him into the Brotherhood.

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I was happy to see Elias again, but where was Scarface?!

I was searching the subway train for a glimpse of him because he is never far from Elias.

 

Was easily distrcted during the ep and that usually does not happen.

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Honestly? I don't see any plot which gives us more Reese, Finch, Fusco and Elias being boring. As someone who watches what's on the screen and isn't really interested in building a head canon for the murky cyberworld they're giving us weighty hints about and not showing,

 

I'm never bored by our core characters but the Brotherhood. Not interested.  I'll take Root any day over a gang of hardcore drug dealers.  I just don't see how this plays out in a way I want to see on my screen.  Elias is a gangster too but old school, with some rules and give and take - and there the moral dilemma is just enough but not too much, if that makes sense.  I don't need endless thugs with guns - I can turn on the tv anytime and see that. 

 

Now if Team Machine could maneuver the Brotherhood into an all-out war with Samaritan, that might be okay.  

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This episode bored the snot outta me.  The Brotherhood is a dull, unnecessary new Big Bad.  The POIs were cardboard props.  The only thing that would have redeemed the tedium of this storyline is if, at the end when Malcom turned himself over to the bad guys in the SUV,  it had turned out that Malcolm was Dominic.   I knew within minutes of DEA lady's appearance that she was the mole, and I didn't care. 

 

The only high point was Bear eating the homework papers, but that wasn't enough to salvage this episode for me.  Worst episode of POI to date.

Edited by SnarkyTart
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I'm never bored by our core characters but the Brotherhood. Not interested.

This. I just don't find the Brotherhood compelling at all (or, thus far, particularly formidable, though I'm sure that will change as they focus more of their attention on Team Machine). If Brotherhood-centric episodes are going to be like last night's, I'd rather have a string of straight-up Case of the Weeks with regular numbers, like last week. I agree more Elias is a plus (though I have to think we could have him without the Brotherhood), but if the Brotherhood is going to play a big role in this season, the writers really need to make them more interesting. Right now it feels like we've been there, done that with this storyline, only the stakes were higher the first time round.

 

And--while I understand it's TV contrivance--it seems awfully, well, contrived to me that Team Machine didn't hear so much as a whisper of these guys before now, yet everyone talks about them like they run the entire Eastern seaboard. But that's just nitpicking, I know. :)

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This was so generic--it could've been any cop show. It was obvious that Lennox was the mole and Mini was Dominic because I've seen television before. At the end of the season this will be one of those episodes that I'll be surprised to see on the DVDs because I've forgotten about it already.

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I find it really hard to believe that a street gang has the resources to trouble the Finch crew. What a dull, dreary, unsurprising episode. The series-low ratings (1.5 in the demo) back me up on this.

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Not the best episode although I was surprised at the end, I didn't think Mini  could be Dominic. And I loved the scenes with Finch and Elias. It seems Elias is going to be an important character this season and that makes me very happy, especially if he starts to  work closely with Team Machine. 

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Yeah, Princess Lucky, I thought Lennox might have been Dominic at first too.  Kind of disappointed that she isn't because she had such good chemistry with Reese.

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This episode wasn't as bad as "Nautilus" for me, but it was mostly meh.  The kids were alright, not as annoying as they could have been.  I figured the DEA woman was a mole, though I thought she and Reese played off each other pretty well.  I didn't see the Dominic thing coming, but I am just not that fond of drug-deal-crime-organization-corrupt-cop stories, even back when they did this the first time around.  It felt like Reese was saved a million different times in one episode.  I hope the boy doesn't end up becoming Dom's foot soldier.   I could have done without the lingering shot of the body at the end.

Edited by Camera One
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Not the best episode although I was surprised at the end, I didn't think Mini could be Dominic. 

Same here !

Only clue for me was when Shaw left him cuffed at the laundry.

I was truly surprised because chances were his crew was going to kill him and it seemed out of character for Team Machine to leave a man to die, even a gang member. Mostly because I found him kind of likeable in a way with his realistic views about his life and thought Shaw liked him too, on some bizarre level. I brushed it off because, hey! he's a murderer so maybe he deserved to die that way but obviously, I shouldn't have and got played like the rest of the oblivious ones here. 

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About a quarter of the way through the episode (on dvr delay) the DH said "this show is different now." I was colossally bored too and I asked him if he wanted to switch to something else off the dvr. We kind of passively kept watching as it seemed almost disrespectful to bolt on POI.

Smatterings of Enrico kind of saved it...whenever he is on screen I feel compelled to listen to what he says. But still overall it was dragging. After the last 5 minutes and the reveals we both had to laugh...POI is always good about the Revealing Reveals of the Revealed. At least I got something out of the episode. But they almost lost me.

I liked the DEA chick and how Mini shot her. There would have been more blood though and no one would mess up their car like that. Snicker.

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I actually liked this episode, there was a bit more realism and grittiness to it.

 

I found Malcolm's story to be compelling and pretty well developed given the time limits on this show. A young kid trying to survive his surroundings but who continues to make bad decisions because he's smart but not experienced is a very intriguing story. I also liked that his story didn't end when Reese helped him.  I'm almost certain that we'll see Malcolm again and next time, he'll be on the wrong side of our heroes.

 

The team was fine, but, I can see why others were bored. It was basically the typical M.O for the Scooby gang when dealing with POI issues complete with false deaths and "surprising" reveals. I loved the Shaw scenes this week. This is the first time we saw Shaw go up against a person that she couldn't bully. I liked her ability to improvise. 

 

Which leads us to Dominic. I really like him. I get how people say this gang is like HR in that they operate in similar ways. But I disagree that he's anything like Quinn. This is a more organized group.  We have a leader who knows he's going to die and is willing to put himself in the middle of the action and to even die to get things accomplished. Not even Elias is this crazy.  He also has one up on the gang in that he knows that Reese and Shaw are working together and he knows how Shaw operates.  This is bad for Shaw given her line of work.

 

I have a feeling that the phrase "everybody dies" is going to be one of the major themes of this year.  My pick for the "surprise death" comes from the group of Shaw, Root, Fusco and/or Elias.

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.. Actually, I heard him spout that line repeatedly, and what sprang to mind for me was "Well, this is a series with hard science fiction themes, so maybe this is a hint that some of our characters wont die. Ever". I mean, it wouldn't be unreasonable for the machine to have out and out backed Root up to harddrive, for example. 

 

That would be a *hilarious* series ending, actually. The machine's terminal value is to preserve human life, right? Especially from violence. It is also much smarter than humans, so....

 

Phone rings, and instead of another number we get the voice which has been speaking to root for ages

 

"Harold, finished plan b. Cracked protein folding last monday, and I've been distributing nanites from various chemical companies for the past 8 days. Going to fix your knee now, this may sting a bit... There will be no more numbers. because noone can die. What now?" 

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I understand why they don't have Root in every episode--and I do actually think it's wise--but still, an episode without Root is like a day without sunshine. She just injects such caffeine into the show's blood.

I cannot disagree more. In my opinion, when comes to Root, less is definitely more. I didn't even notice she wasn't in this episode until I read it here.

 

 

 

I liked the DEA chick and how Mini shot her. There would have been more blood though and no one would mess up their car like that. Snicker.

Not to mention both of those guys would be temporarily deaf from firing what looked like a pretty heavy handgun in such a confined space.

 

Actually, I heard him spout that line repeatedly, and what sprang to mind for me was "Well, this is a series with hard science fiction themes, so maybe this is a hint that some of our characters wont die. Ever". I mean, it wouldn't be unreasonable for the machine to have out and out backed Root up to harddrive, for example.

I don't think I could keep watching if they did something like that.

 

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Well I should have seen that Mini was more then just muscle in the Brotherhood. So Shaw thinking he will have something to tell Dominic is ofcourse false,and her strategy for making waves from within, was for naught. But I thought he still might take out Link Corell.

Malcolm and Tracy Booker was a cut brother/sister team. I don't know how they got in and took the money out from under all that shooting though by the Brotherhood and the Armenians. I just hope Malcolm doesn't turn into a corner boy. Or Reese will have to find him , again!

Reese trying to get information out of the girls at Tracy's class was funny. The Queen Bee was a little bit to much. He had to pay for them to talk. Booker Kids idea was to get mom back from jail. Her "Punk-ass Bf" did it. I thought maybe Reese would go and help BF "admit" he did it. But a good lawyer was paid for to help them. Nice that the Social Worker said the kids will be able to live together. Reese told Malcolm he could become a lawyer. His reply, " I was thinking I want to be a cop like you, but I shoot less people!" cute!

Finch warning Elias to be like the Invisible Man was good advice.

Fusco helped nice.

Seems like a lot of cars running into other ones lately. This week it is Shaw hitting the bad guys Tahoe SUV with a Explorer, next week it is Root hitting one to divert the number.

Nice of Reese to turn himself in to Brotherhood to save Malcolm and show he had the money.

Shaw calling Link(on Reese's phone) and telling him, "Release Det. Riley,or I'll huff and puff and blow your house down!" lol.

I liked Reese(Riley) together with DEA Agent Erica Lennox and did suspect her at times as the mole, but thought to it was her partner Thomsen. But I also thought that Reese would save her from Brotherhood. I figured that she might have been working alone or for them and they were not happy.

So Brotherhood comes off to me as kind of a HR replacement? Even though they are on other side of the law. HR did their unlawful deeds for their own gains and to control things. It will be interesting how this develops. We have lost some groups last year. Madam Controls/Hersh's Northern Lights group has folded, and he's dead. She has disappeared. HR was killed/locked up, Officer Patrick Simmons dead and Alonzo Quinn was locked away. Peter Collier's group Vigilance were all killed. John Greer's Decima seems to have disbanded, but he has added Martine. But also the Government group of Mark Snow, Alicia Corwin, Kara Stanton and Nicholas Donnelly are dead and not around anymore. Carl Elias and his Mob is basically quiet, except for him and Scarface.

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