S02.E03: Making Friends And Influencing People

[blackwing]

I'm actually liking the Lance Hunter character.  I think he's funny in a droll English way.  Loved when Skye called him "Trainspotting" and he just mutters "I'm not Scottish!"  And then when he says "Agent May SHOT me" and Tripp is all "Man, I wanted to be the one."  I think he adds some muscle to the team that was missing last year.  Glad to see that the team is actually functioning as a tactical strike team, which seemed a bit unbelievable last year with only May and Ward as the real fighters.  Now they have May, Hunter, Tripp and Skye, who must have really boned up on her training to become a full fledged field agent.

[anna0852]

I think the fact that she hit him in the shoulder is proof she's notan expert. May would have taken his head off.

[KirkB]

I watched the episode again and paid particularly close attention to Skye shooting at the Hydra guy and Simmons saving him. After Skye shoots Donnie the Hydra guy is sort of hunched over. Simmons looks up and around and sees Skye. Skye pulls her eye away from the scope and sees Simmons. They share a moment if what appears to me to be genuine surprise. Then Simmons makes a scene of pushing the Hydra guy out of the way and there is a notable delay before Skye very deliberately shoots a part of the ship nowhere near either one of them. Skye didn't actually miss and Simmons didn't really save him.

Edited October 10, 2014 by KirkB

[Cranberry]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear that Skye and Simmons both thought fast to maintain Simmons' cover.

 

You know what I liked a lot? Skye didn't think for one second that Simmons had actually joined HYDRA. I thought that maybe Skye had heard May tell Coulson that Simmons was there over the comms, but she seemed genuinely surprised to see her. Their friendship and trust was strong enough that she didn't automatically believe that Simmons had turned, even when she could have been extra-paranoid after the whole Ward thing.

[Sakura12]

I figured Skye deliberately missed so it would look Simmons saved the Hydra guy to maintain her cover. They couldn't have it look like SHIELD came to save her or got the intel from her. 

Edited October 11, 2014 by Sakura12

[Actionmage]

I just hope Agent 33, the agent undergoing conversion at the top of the episode, is faking out HYDRA. I am already tired of HYDRA kicking SHIELD in the nads in almost everything. She managed to get a hand free once, maybe her mind is stronger than HYDRA gave her credit for?

[jhlipton]

The brainwashing wall of lights reminded me of a brainwashing room from an old Mission:Impossible episode where Jim Phelps himself (! I know!) was to be brainwashed

I just hope Agent 33, the agent undergoing conversion at the top of the episode, is faking out HYDRA. I am already tired of HYDRA kicking SHIELD in the nads in almost everything. She managed to get a hand free once, maybe her mind is stronger than HYDRA gave her credit for?

 

It reminded me of an old Michael Caine spy-thriller called The IPCRESS Files. The Big Bads are trying to brainwash Harry Palmer (Caine’s character) v ia sleep deprivation and flashing lights. When Agent 33 grabbed the hinge or whatever, it was like Palmer

shoving a nail into his palm

to fend off the brainwashing.

 

May handed her the sniper rifle and said something like "I want you to get used to the weight

 

I believe she said that Skye had to get used to the recoil. Although there didn’t seem to be much when Skye fired it.

[HistoryGirl]

I just hope Agent 33, the agent undergoing conversion at the top of the episode, is faking out HYDRA. I am already tired of HYDRA kicking SHIELD in the nads in almost everything. She managed to get a hand free once, maybe her mind is stronger than HYDRA gave her credit for?

I think so too.  Bakshi made a point of noting to Whitehall at the end of the episode that the brainwashing thing didn't really work properly (as evidenced through Donnie, I suppose) and he was surprised that they were continuing with it.  To me it was a hint toward the audience that maybe 33 isn't fully under or at least is breakable.  The other thought I had was that if/when Simmons gets brainwashed, she can be saved. 

[sinkwriter]

 

The other thought I had was that if/when Simmons gets brainwashed, she can be saved.

 

Then she and Fitz really will be quite the pair, both brain damaged from their traumatic experiences.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

Ditto. To me it reads almost like a parody of a redemption arc. He's so creepy and has yet to even acknowledge that what he did was wrong. He's still giving speeches about how Evil will triumph and SHIELD is weak because of its pesky concern over right v wrong. We're just one step away from a supervillain monologue here. Also even though Ward has a laundry list of excuses, no one seems to be buying them.

Plus he never actually said. I am a good guy. He is trying to manipulate Skye so she will listen to him long enough for him to bring up the topic of her parents which she is avoiding like the plague but will probably be a mid season story arc and what gets Ward out of his cage. After that the direction of Wards arc is open for debate but that isn't retcon either.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[paramitch]

Next Week: An homage to 'True Lies', complete with dancing.  Really ?

 

I disagree that a tango automatically equals a "True Lies" homage -- not least because that tango itself was an homage with tongue firmly in cheek. There have been tangos for decades (centuries) when it comes to suspense and romance.

 

All of which means that I will totally and gleefully watch a Phil/May tango in the line of duty (besides, I always love their chemistry going way back).

 

While the plot continues to meander, I thought this was better than last week.  Excellent acting by Iain and Brett in the prison scene.  I thought Fitz would forget how to turn the oxygen back on and needed help from Mack.  Speaking of which, really loving that Fitz and Mack are becoming friends.  Mack's little "We'll figure it out" instead of putting all of it on Fitz was really sweet.

 

I've been surprised by how poignant I've found Mack's friendship with Fitz. More, please.

 

I felt so bad for Fitz. And wanted him to punch the hell out of Ward for his "I saved you" bullshit. If I were Fitz, I would have wanted to say, "It would have been kinder to put a bullet in my brain! Yeah, I found 'a way out' - I was supposed to die, and Simmons was supposed to live! Instead you've left me searching for words! Do you know how hard that is for a brainiac like me?? You bastard." Maybe I should have felt disturbed that Fitz was turning down Ward's air, but I didn't feel much of anything. Ward did something horrible. Maybe he should feel a few seconds or more of what it felt like for Fitz. And Fitz didn't kill the guy, so +1 for Fitz.

I was right with you, and I loved every terrible moment between Fitz and Ward, and it was what this show needed to keep the stakes as high as possible. 

 

I always loved the FitzSimmons friendship so part of me is sad that they have been separated (mostly because Fitz seems to really need her and now that Coulson has told him that she's gone, he feels abandoned) but I think it will be good for them from an acting as well as a story standpoint to have them apart for now.

 

I was a FitzSimmons shipper last season, I remained one at the gorgeous and heartbreaking finale (the kiss killed me), and I remain one to this day. Sniffle.

 

Hydra got a bulk deal on logo-print clothing. Even SHIELD had Hydra logos on the targets, which seemed stupid to me. If you're a cash-strapped organization, you just buy the plain ones. It could have just been a hand drawn one, like someone was making a statement. 

 

I've been enjoying this entire thread, and laughed out loud at all the Hydra signage, Hydra logos, Hydra graphics, Hydra merchandise. I kept picturing a Hydra Cafepress or Zazzle store, or Hyydra sales on merch each month. Just ridiculous and funny and all-too-believable.

 

Iain DeCaestecker needs to win all the awards. And I mean all of them. Even like Best Picture or whatever because he deserves them. Every single one.  He and Tatiana Maslany need to get together and have a brood of actor babies who just blow up TV.  Iain has just been selling Fitz's frustration and disability this season.  I'm glued to the screen when he's on.  When Fitz confronted Ward, you really got a sense of his PTSD and it was just perfection.  It's a shame this is a niche show because he really should be nominated for his work these past 3 episodes. 

 

I have thought Ian was the bomb ever since the AoS episode when Simmons almost killed herself from the electro-virus (saved at the last minute by Ward, of all people). The scene of her trapping a screaming Fitz as she decided to kill herself for me remains the high point of this show in terms of moments and acting, and it broke my breaking heart. That one moment deserved all the awards for everyone and was so moving. Right then and there, I would have forgiven Fitz and Simmons anything and they became by far my favorites on the show.

 

That said, I wish I liked Skye more. I just don't. I don't think the actress is bad so I have to blame it on writing and characterization. Every time she shows up, even now, it feels like she's playing dress-up as some kind of badass. I just don't buy it. I'd far better prefer a character who was already a SHIELD agent and who was already the product of years of training. Special Snowflake Skye is just utterly uninteresting to me (not least because she is so super darn special that her character doesn't evolve, she just discovers "new abilities"). Gah.

[ChelseaNH]

Every time she shows up, even now, it feels like she's playing dress-up as some kind of badass. I just don't buy it.

 

She reminds me of a puppy dog, figuratively wagging her tail as hard as she can to get you to like her.  Which is consistent with Skye's background, but I don't think that particular bit of subtext has ever been made text (so to speak) and I think the character would be the better for it.

[HistoryGirl]

I have thought Ian was the bomb ever since the AoS episode when Simmons almost killed herself from the electro-virus (saved at the last minute by Ward, of all people). The scene of her trapping a screaming Fitz as she decided to kill herself for me remains the high point of this show in terms of moments and acting, and it broke my breaking heart. That one moment deserved all the awards for everyone and was so moving. Right then and there, I would have forgiven Fitz and Simmons anything and they became by far my favorites on the show.

 

ICAM on everything you've just said.  Same goes for me.  

 

But I will say that what made me realize that DeCaestecker was a genius actor was watching him in a terrible Scottish film called "Not Another Happy Ending".  He was the highlight of the film (Glasgow being the other).  Even as a bit player he stole practically every scene he appeared in and I found myself laughing at his antics (the film is a romantic comedy and he plays the best friend of the main guy).  I knew that if he was making me ache with scenes like those found in FZZT or 1x22 and then laugh hysterically in NAHE, he was truly brilliant.  

 

Season 2 has just proven it tenfold. 

[ae2]

I know I'm late to the party here (always a week behind, err)... but the non-FitBit plot was not product placement( especially since it never remotely identified a product).

 

This episode, and that particular story, was trying to show us that Hydra and Shield aren't that different in their goals, only in their means. Skye keeping her heart rate in check, even while shooting a person, is her being "brainwashed" in parallel with Agent 33.

 

You say brainwashing, and I say training. Let's call the whole thing off.

 

They are both trying to bring in an asset. If Hydra can't bring in an asset, they terminate them. 

 

Which is exactly what Shield did, despite gasping in horror as they realized that's what Hydra would do.

[rujasu]

What?  Skye is choosing to follow May's training.  She's not being brainwashed because it's not against her will, it's her decision to train herself that way.  So yes, they are that different.

[ohjoy]

You say brainwashing, and I say training. Let's call the whole thing off.

 

They are both trying to bring in an asset. If Hydra can't bring in an asset, they terminate them. 

 

Which is exactly what Shield did, despite gasping in horror as they realized that's what Hydra would do.

I thought this was referring to Donnie. Shield was trying to get to Donnie before Hydra, because they understood that if Hydra couldn't bring him in, they would kill him to avoid the threat of him not being on Hydra's side. But Shield (Skye) actually did kill him (or she thinks she did), to avoid the threat of him not being on Shield's side.

[Sarahastro]

I thought this was referring to Donnie. Shield was trying to get to Donnie before Hydra, because they understood that if Hydra couldn't bring him in, they would kill him to avoid the threat of him not being on Hydra's side. But Shield (Skye) actually did kill him (or she thinks she did), to avoid the threat of him not being on Shield's side.

 

Donnie was also in the process of freezing the ship and everyone else. Skye had to shoot him in order to keep him from killing everyone. This is not the same as Hydra's M.O., as described in Ward's gleeful speech about how only losers bother worrying about pesky things like "right" and "wrong."

[Kel Varnsen]

What kind of bastards are SHIELD where they have a holding cell where someone can remove the oxygen in it, in about 30 seconds by hitting a few buttons on a tablet. That is not a holding cell that is a gas chamber. 

 

 

Not familiar with that one, but it reminds of the V reboot brainwashing wall.

I was kind of waiting for text to pop up on the brain washing screen saying  "Jacob loves you" or something. 

[KirkB]

What kind of bastards are SHIELD where they have a holding cell where someone can remove the oxygen in it, in about 30 seconds by hitting a few buttons on a tablet. That is not a holding cell that is a gas chamber.

 

I don't think it was intentional. I doubt anyone else in the base, with the possible exception of Koenig, would even know it was possible to do that, much less actually do it.

[Kel Varnsen]

I don't think it was intentional. I doubt anyone else in the base, with the possible exception of Koenig, would even know it was possible to do that, much less actually do it.

But just cutting out the oxygen to a single room like that is extremely difficult. I suppose you could close off the supply air to the room and have a very strong exhaust fan. It would have to be very strong to empty the air from the room fast enough for Ward to feel the effects. And what other reason would you build a system like that other than to suffocate people in the holding cells?

[JayKay]

And what other reason would you build a system like that other than to suffocate people in the holding cells?

Fire protection, possibly? Water can mess up devices, documents and pressed suits. If they lock up an 084 like the Human Torch and he turns hostile, it would be nice to have a system like that in place.

Not that it doesn't seem like it was custom-designed for torture, like the interrogation airlock on the Bus.

[KirkB]

That, and it would be a way to quell violence in the cell. If the detainees were fighting or one of them was trying to hurt themselves and it wasn't safe to go in and stop them you could cut off the air to make them pass out. It doesn't need to be meant to automatically kill them, though now that I think about it I wouldn't put it past some of the SHIELD people (or even more likely the Hydra among them) to have designed it as a torture/murder system.

Edited October 24, 2014 by KirkB

[Sandman]

Perhaps the venting system wasn't originally designed to do that, but Fitz re-engineered to suit his purpose?

[Llywela]

Perhaps the venting system wasn't originally designed to do that, but Fitz re-engineered to suit his purpose?

Fitz didn't re-engineer anything for any purpose in that scene. He had no idea who or what was in the cell until he walked in there, and switching off the oxygen was very clearly a spur of the moment decision made when he was unable to verbalise what he wanted/needed to say. There was no premeditation. He just used the controls that were already in place.