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S04.E02: White Out

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Juliet and sister Rachel (from Lost) are reunited as the Snow Queen and Warlord Bo Peep. Love it. 

 

I'm loving this season so far having only seen part of last season. Frozen characters are bringing life into this series. Elsa has some serious emotional issues to work though but she did in the movie too. I'm glad she acknowledges that she's putting people in danger so she shouldn't be thanked for saving them from that danger. Character growth in 2 episodes, while Regina's still stuck in the beginning.

 

Anna's cute and annoying which is how I found her in the movie too. That's just her character trait, she's an eternal optimist and that's what Elsa the emotionally unstable downer needs in her life. I liked that she said her parents were no help, because they weren't. Did think that having their daughter locked in her room forever was going to solve the problem? It was easy to see her powers are tied to her emotions, help her with that could help her with control. 

 

Since everyone is related to one another I'm going to assume the Snow Queen is Elsa and Anna's aunt or something. That's why Elsa has the same powers. 

Edited by Sakura12
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While I liked it better than the first one (almost no Regina and almost no Rumbelle is always good), I'm not  big fan of the episode. This time I liked the Storybrooke stuff more than the flashback (Bo Peep was so over the top). Anna is starting to get on my nerves, but I still like Elsa.

 

I loved the hug between Hook and Emma, it was beautiful.

Edited by RadioGirl27
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Didn't watch the credits but I was hoping Elizabeth Mitchell would be the evil snow queen and voila!

 

Mmm Snow can't get the weight off, I know the actress had a baby in real life I guess it's justified but the double chin is a bit distracting..

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But oh no, the writers have her off being Mama Mayor so everyone's TVs will work instead of dealing with the life and death situation her daughter was facing. They don't even try to hide that couldn't care less about the mother/daughter relationship.

I give them more of a pass on this just because it's so obvious Goodwin is on really reduced duty (I bet she filmed all her scenes for this episode in like half a day). Plus, they've so messed up the Snow-Emma relationship at this point, that maybe not trying to force it for a bit will be better (a la Regina being backburnered in 3A).

 

And I try to give kid actors some slack, too, but Jared was actually really good in the first season! I don't know if it's puberty or what, but this emo tween phase is not fun to watch.

I think it's a combination of things--though I actually found him better last night than I have since he was Panry, oddly enough. The first season asked him to be cute and perky, which a lot of kids are naturally--now the show is asking him to stretch beyond himself, and it's not going so well. Not sure they're playing to his strengths (he comes across much better when he does normal family stuff with his family). Also, the terrible writing doesn't help; the writers just don't know how to let Henry grow up, so part of it, for me, is just that he looks 15 but is acting 12.

 

(I like the flashback hair...I thought it was far better than his other flashback hair)

Yeah, oddly enough, while the wig was lolarious, the long hair suited him way better than that middling length in 1x06. Makes me think Josh Dallas could rock, like, shoulder-length hair if he let his grow way out.

 

That cut scene was terrible--not that it was a bad scene in and of itself, but it would've tanked a lot of the rest of the episode to show it. Absolutely the right call to cut it.

 

Though I know they won't, I hope they keep Bo Peep around. The show really lacks a recurring not-really-magic antagonist--King George had a lot of potential in that role, but he hasn't been seen in 1.5+ seasons, so. But some low-level people who can make trouble for the Charmings every once in a while is kind of just what this show needs (it makes me laugh that they're all Charming's enemies--he has a bigger rogues' gallery than anyone else on the show), and the actress was a hoot.

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I love that they dressed Bo Peep like a pastel Scarlet O'Hara. It was very much a "Hee!" moment for me. I love when this show goes all out on the ridiculousness.

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Guess I'm in the minority, but the FROZEN stuff is leaving me, well... COLD. (Pun intended, as Emma says).

It isn't the actors playing the FROZEN roles, they're fine. it's just the whole insertion of that film (which is not based on any actual fairytale, folktale, or classic children's tale -- it certainly bears no resemblance to The Snow Queen) just doesn't work for me in context with the other characters and set-ups in the OUAT world. It just feels like a commercial gambit to me -- the film made (is still making) mega-bucks, so let's throw it in the mix.  (Of course, I really didn't care for the Wizard of Oz stuff either. Also seemed shoe-horned in).

I don't know, call me "Grumpy", but I was bored last night (and so were the people watching with me). 

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I love this fandom so much (or hate it, I don't know). There's already a ship for Anna and Charming!

 

Anyway, someone else thought that when Emma is talking to Henry about Regina at the beginning, she is also talking about her and Hook? It was the impression I had, but I don't want to rewatch it (I can't stand Henry, and he used to be my favourite in season 1).

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Anna calling David's father weak was pretty rich coming from a girl with parents so afraid of their daughter's powers they locked her up and told her to repress repress repress and thus created a monster out of her. I also found it pretty insulting to have Princess Sunny Mary Sue pass ANY judgements on someone struggling with alcoholism -- which, y'known, unlike evil queens and fairies, is a real thing real people struggle with. Super rubbed me the wrong way.

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Hardly any Regina puts me in the best of moods.

I know! It was like someone read my Christmas list. This is an occasion for a handwritten thank-you note. I should get out my good stationery.

 

I liked how he was trying to dig her out even thought it was impossible. To me that is  human.  Hook is not afraid of the impossible fight.

Ooh, I hadn't even thought of that parallel. I wonder how intentional it was to have the flashbacks of David learning how important it is to fight the impossible fight juxtaposed with Hook refusing to give up and continuing to fight, just because he can't make himself give up and not do anything.

 

Upon further thought, I'm glad that someone finally brought up the fact that Snow is the rightful ruler and she and David won back her kingdom. So why the heck hasn't she been in charge? They kicked Regina out of office early in season two, and she took it back over with Cora not long afterward. They've all been okay with that since then? And, really, way to be a ruler, Regina. Abdicate all responsibility at the first crisis, just because you went through a breakup. She's making my nineteen-year-old self look like a real trouper in comparison (and at least that was a nearly year-long relationship in which we were talking marriage after college). Seriously, this was a relationship that started maybe a week ago, and she's quitting her job and telling her son she doesn't want to see him. If I'd flipped out like that after every two-date relationship I've had that fizzled at that point, I'd either be in jail or an asylum by now.

 

I can buy that Anna learned swordfighting from the palace guards. She was a lonely, bored kid, so I could see her wandering into the place where the guards were practicing, saying, "Whatcha doin?" and them starting to teach her, just for fun. I'm less okay with her teaching David to be a master swordsman and find his inner courage in one day. I took fencing for a whole semester and could barely move after the first class, and was still very much at "novice" level after the semester. There's no way you can learn to fight with a heavier sword in one day. I guess you can handwave that away with the idea that Bo Peep has been ruling by fear and intimidation, and it's been so long since anyone challenged her that no one knows she's been hiring cut-rate henchmen. But these lessons do explain how David was able to learn enough to fight a dragon after essentially one lesson later, and he wouldn't have learned enough this time to already be an expert at that time (especially if he didn't keep practicing).

 

While I do want to get some kind of insight into how Hook is picking up all the stuff from our world, I can see how he might have figured out the space heater. Chances are good that he would have had to avail himself of the facilities while working with Team Charming to fight Zelena, and there was snow on the ground during part of that time, so the heater might have been on, and he'd have noticed that this little box in the bathroom gave off warmth. As for the bit about being old-fashioned, I think he was referring more to his time period in their world vs. David's, not necessarily comparing their world to ours.

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So I really wonder if David even knows anything about the Jolly Roger and why he would think Emma would be just a conquest for Hook given the whole time travel bit and the chat around the camp fire.  I don't mind David wanting to make sure his daughter is fine, but he named his son Neal!

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I enjoyed this episode. When they brought the Frozen characters in I thought they had jumped the shark but so far it has been a much needed storyline.  I am sorry to say it but this show has to get rid of Rumple and Regina. They have long since outlived their usefulness. I am sick of seeing their faces. They could come back as guests but they have to leave the main story. Sorry to say. Last night was amazingly fun without them. Focusing on the people we want to see, Emma, David, Elsa, Anna, Granny and even Juliet from Lost...

 

Did I miss it, I was most looking forward to Elsa's -- wft - at seeing David was who Emma's father was.

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Ironically, as Hook was desperately hacking away at the ice wall with his hook, David kept telling him to stop because it wasn't doing any good. Yet when Elsa finally blasted a hole through the ice wall, it didn't end up being that thick. Maybe six inches or so. Meaning if Hook had just kept hammering at the ice he would have eventually broken through on his own. Heck, where were the dwarfs with their mining picks?

 

The show has always had a problem with magic - it works when they need it to and it doesn't when they need it not to. Emma trained with Regina last season to use her powers and ultimately learned they work best reflexively. She even managed to open a damn time portal, albeit with the aid of a magic wand. Still, it doesn't make much sense that she couldn't have used her powers to break through the ice wall.

 

Worse, it didn't make any sense that Elsa couldn't break down the ice wall. She'd learned the secret of undoing her magic by the end of Frozen. Are we now to believe she cannot control this power without Anna at her side?

 

While I still enjoy the show, it feels like they are struggling needlessly to keep it going. Too much time coming up with shiny new villains to terrorize the Storybrookers, too little time hitting the emotional beats. A lot of people have pointed out the lack of concern - or perhaps even awareness - Snow seemed to have about Emma's predicament in this episode. They keep trading these things off for flashbacks with new villains like Bo Beep and revelations about this new Ice Cream Queen. 

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I liked this episode well enough for a second watch (which I'm currently in the middle of). However, I definitely feel the fairy backs were waaaaay too long, and I'm simply skipping over them this time. I like Anna, and I think Elizabeth Lail is doing a good job of capturing her hyper manner. However, teaching David to be a competent swordsman in a day is ridiculous. I kept expecting him to say, "Just kidding, my dad taught me when I was a kid."

 

I loved Emma and Elsa, especially Elsa trying to be the big bad when she's actually terrified she can't undo her mess. I enjoyed the Captain Swan bits, but I felt like Hook is normally more calm in a crisis than he was in this episode. Also, it seems like he suddenly shifted from saying "Swan" to "Emma." I don't really recall from 4x01, but he definitely still called her "Swan" at the end of last season.

 

Belle continues to be useless. Regina's raven annoyed me--just use a freaking phone, woman! Her rejection of Henry bothered me, and I don't even like Henry much. You don't get to be a mom only when it's convenient for you. I did enjoy the minimal Regina in this episode, though.

 

I only watched about half of that deleted scene, but I think some of that info was needed. I kept wondering why they were trying to restore power with a downed line and only when we got to the fuel bit at the end did I realize it was an emergency generator. I just thought they were all monumentally inept (though Snow's outburst was funny).

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Anna calling David's father weak was pretty rich coming from a girl with parents so afraid of their daughter's powers they locked her up and told her to repress repress repress and thus created a monster out of her. I also found it pretty insulting to have Princess Sunny Mary Sue pass ANY judgements on someone struggling with alcoholism -- which, y'known, unlike evil queens and fairies, is a real thing real people struggle with. Super rubbed me the wrong way.

Yes.  Adding in--girl who has regular palace guards and might be brave, but isn't exactly a fount of wisdom?  And, apparently, has little to no experience with magically enhanced enemies?

 

Could David stand up to the Warlord Bo Peep?  Yes.  But, your average peasant farmer might not fair so well against magic and minions, and might want his mother to live.  So, him being lectured in bravery by someone who is, well, impulsive, thoughtless, and dim, as well as usually having armies to do her defending?  That was annoyingly self-righteous.

 

ETA:

I do mostly like Anna.  But, she's childish and David usually isn't.  Having him being lectured and "fixed" by essentially a sweet but over indulged, naïve child?  Yeah.  No.

Edited by Mari
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Ironically, as Hook was desperately hacking away at the ice wall with his hook, David kept telling him to stop because it wasn't doing any good. Yet when Elsa finally blasted a hole through the ice wall, it didn't end up being that thick. Maybe six inches or so. Meaning if Hook had just kept hammering at the ice he would have eventually broken through on his own. Heck, where were the dwarfs with their mining picks?

 

I thought he thought it was useless since it was a magical ice wall, so not your normal wall.  That it would be useless to dig at it, it would be impenetrable due to the magic.

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Juliet and sister Rachel (from Lost) are reunited as the Snow Queen and Warlord Bo Peep. Love it.

 

I would never have realized that was Rachel.  Wow, they are sure mining that Lost cast. 

 

Anna also rubbed me the wrong way with her preachiness, and I think she used a stronger word than weak in describing David's father, not sure.  Not so very diplomatic to insult your host's father, I could stand to see her turned down a notch.

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As it's not a spoiler, I guess this is the place to post the deleted scene from this ep that was on GMA this morning. I'm glad they cut this.

That has generally been my experience with "cut scenes".  I've stopped watching them on DVD extras.

 

 

The Real Chon

So we took that left at Albuquoikey and ended up in ... Narnia? Mmmkay.

It is when one does NOT take the left at Albuquoikey (or Albuquerque for those who can't read Bronx-accent ;0) ) that one winds up somewhere unplanned.

Edited by elle

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Anna reminds me of Snow White (although Snow is pretty PC), but on steroids.  I can't deal.  The fairybacks were the weakest thing this episode (still loved it though and got me totally excited for next week).  That sword looked too heavy for her and I was glad I was watching by myself when she started tumbling.  Because that was totally WTF for me.

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I enjoyed the Captain Swan bits, but I felt like Hook is normally more calm in a crisis than he was in this episode.

This made total sense. He loves Emma and he has had really bad experiences with his loved ones dying in his arms, so I think that him being so distressed was logical and in character.

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Also, it seems like he suddenly shifted from saying "Swan" to "Emma." I don't really recall from 4x01, but he definitely still called her "Swan" at the end of last season.

 

If I remember correctly, they both kinda bounce back and forth between "Swan"/"Hook" and "Emma"/"Killian." I like it, though; it's like little pet names. [/CS shipper]

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Worse, it didn't make any sense that Elsa couldn't break down the ice wall. She'd learned the secret of undoing her magic by the end of Frozen. Are we now to believe she cannot control this power without Anna at her side?

 

I was disappointed that Elsa had lost control of her powers as well but, I thought they fixed this at the end. Showing us that Elsa's powers were being controlled / pushed by Julliet.  I would have been much more cross with this show if it went back on what Elsa learned at the end of the movie... that love was the key to controlling them (and I thought part of that was her loving herself). But I think they are ok with someone else being the cause or the contributing factor.

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I liked this episode. Thought the stuff with Emma and Elsa was awesome. It really makes sense those two would connect. I am looking forward to seeing their interactions going forward.

 

Loved the Hook and Charming stuff. I remember thinking they played well off each other in Good Form and felt the same here. Also; loved Hook's desperate attempts to save Emma by hacking at the ice with his hook. You could tell he was terrified of losing her.

 

Practically laughed out loud when Little Bo Peep showed up. Who would hear Little Bo Peep and think "dangerous evil-doer?" I am still not exactly sure what he was doing. Does she just go around and make people pay money to her so she doesn't harm them? Did Charming and his mom have some sort of business agreement with her? If they explained it, I missed it.

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I liked the episode but I had to watch it twice because I spent the entire first run wondering why Emma's red jacket looked brown.  It was only during the second watch (which I did on my iPad) that I realized it was just a brown jacket. 

 

I think that having minimal Rumpel and Regina was the smart choice.  The only way it could have been better is if they were completely gone.  Rumpel would be off on his honeymoon in someone else's house while Regina was locking out the world and ignoring the son she so desperately wanted back.  Keeping them out of it allowed the Charmings, Hook and Emma to figure things out without having to beg the villains for help.  It was nice.  It also allowed Emma and Elsa to bond and I already love their fledgling friendship.  More of this and less villains saving the day.

 

I still hate that every episode is the day after the previous one (I know Snow said it had been a week since Snowflake's birth, but that's simply not possible since Elsa showed up and broke into the shop the day after his birth and she didn't just hang out waiting for the show to progress in time).  At this rate the show could go six more seasons and Snowflake will only age a few months while Henry ends up the oldest looking twelve year old in history.  I get that some parts of the story need to be only a day between episodes but this should not be the norm especially when one of the prominent characters is an actual growing child.  In general it should be following real time and the show should be four years removed from Emma's arrival in Storeybrooke rather than a year and a half or two at most.

 

I think the reason Elsa is having so much trouble controlling her powers, at least for this episode, is because she's been in a constant state of terror since she escaped that urn.  We don't yet know the circumstances of her imprisonment, but we do know that it was more than thirty years since Rumpel had it in his possession long before the Curse was cast, so she was even more isolated than when growing up.  Now she's in a completely foreign world and environment and still has no idea where Anna is.  That's a perfect combination for emotional instability, especially since that was her default far longer than being in control. 

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The Bo Peep character was genius! More of that, please!

Was Ginnifer Goodwin so...um...heavy last week? I didn't notice. But his week, yikes. Is she pregnant IRL?

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Was Ginnifer Goodwin so...um...heavy last week? I didn't notice. But his week, yikes. Is she pregnant IRL?

 

This episode was filmed when Ginny was less than six weeks from giving birth. I think she looks pretty good. I will say that I don't think her outfit did her any favors though. 

 

I'm very annoyed that someone who is one week from having a baby is suddenly thrust into the role of full time mayor. She should first consider her own health and that of her baby before being dragged off to some power plant or whatever. Whatever happened to maternity leave? And Snow not wanting to miss her baby's firsts? And since when do Grumpy, Granny & Happy make decisions as to who is mayor? Shouldn't there be an election? Aren't there people in town who might like the option of running? I really dislike how this mayor thing came about. 

Edited by KAOS Agent
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I think they're trying to be topical; they had Snow asking Regina how she could balance the baby and running a town and Regina snaps at her that she'll figure it out.  Sure, she will, but they are pushing this too fast, I agree.  I'll bet that somehow, at some point, Regina ends up coming to the rescue. 

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Snow just said she's only had eight hours of sleep for a week. It's only been two days utmost since she gave birth, so she was probably not sleeping well before that either. Which makes it even more strange that the dwarfs and especially Granny wanted her to take on the mantle of responsibility so quickly. Really, where was the Town Electrician? Engineer? Maintenance Person? At least they gave Ginny something to do than fall for EM's Snow Queen's/Zelena's schemes, I guess. :-p 

Edited by Rumsy4
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Practically laughed out loud when Little Bo Peep showed up. Who would hear Little Bo Peep and think "dangerous evil-doer?" I am still not exactly sure what he was doing. Does she just go around and make people pay money to her so she doesn't harm them?

 

Yes. It's a standard protection racket. In our world, it's usually some kind of organized crime group that runs it. You pay them something every week or month. If you don't, your son gets a broken leg or your store burns down. Nominally, it is for the protectors to protect you from other bad guys, but everybody knows it is just you bribing the "protectors" not to harm you. If you try to organize your local business men to stand up to the organized criminals, you usually end up dead. It generally requires a corrupt or inept police force to exist, but can also occur in communities where the police are traditionally not trusted.

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Whatever happened to maternity leave? And Snow not wanting to miss her baby's firsts?

Hehe, I don't think Snow will miss anything Snowflake does because that baby is permanently affixed in Snow's arms at all times (I'm actually surprised she puts him down to sleep...on further thought he may never need to learn how to walk if this keeps up :-P ). I mean, Snow took the kid to a power plant instead of, I don't know, getting a babysitter for a little while. At this rate baby Snowflake is going to be the worst Mama's Boy there ever was.

 

The peasant folk demanding Snow fix what was going down didn't actually bother me too much 'cause they kinda had a point. Maternity leave issues aside, Snow did cast this curse not to protect everyone, but because Zelena popped up and said "Boo!" to her and threatened her baby. As far as I can tell Zelena only threatened Regina and Snowing, and yet Snow cursed an entire world to try and save themselves. Which as it turned out was pointless because Regina saved the day anyway, and arguably, re-casting The Curse was actually counterproductive because if anything it gave Zelena leverage over the situation. That's why I don't have too much of a problem with the peasantry demanding Snow take some responsibility in Storybrooke -- they're all back there because of her actions. TBH, if it had been Regina who had re-cast The Curse I'd expect her to take some responsibility and get shit to work as well, but we all know there's a Regina Responsibility Distortion Field in this show which allows her to literally get away with murder, so...

Edited by FabulousTater

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I still hate that every episode is the day after the previous one (I know Snow said it had been a week since Snowflake's birth, but that's simply not possible since Elsa showed up and broke into the shop the day after his birth and she didn't just hang out waiting for the show to progress in time).

I think the two-part finale took place a few days (at least) after the baby was born, not on the day after the birth. I don't recall anything that was said that indicated it was the very next day. Mom and baby were home from the hospital, and I'd think she'd need at least a few days to recover before wanting to go out in public and have a party. Emma was finding it odd that the baby still hadn't been named, and that shouldn't have been anything too odd the day after the birth when so much happened that day. So I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that it's been a week since the baby was born, and even if it's only been four or five days, she probably didn't sleep well the last few days before the birth, especially with everything that was happening.

 

I wonder if we'll get to see the "so, how'd you get to Storybrooke?" conversation with Elsa. She seemed to be aware of the urn, since she made a point of blasting it, so at some point the penny is going to have to drop and Hook and Emma will realize what happened.

 

I'll have to rewatch, but it didn't sound so much like David's dad was all that bad a dad when he was sober. He was talking about how his parents didn't know he overheard their arguments, and he mentioned getting his dad "back." So it may have been one of those cases where he was a good dad when he was sober and had occasional binges, then the binges got more frequent and longer. So that doesn't clash too much with anything else he's said. His background would be a good reason for him to be wary of rum-swilling Hook, though Hook doesn't strike me as an actual alcoholic who has a physical addiction. He spent too much time in Neverland with only that little flask (that he shared) and with no signs of problems. His problem seems to be more that he uses alcohol as an emotional crutch when he's unhappy. When he's happy, he barely drinks at all.

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I was surprised when I got to the end of this episode and found that I had not been enraged at any point. Probably because there was no Regina and Belle kept her mouth shut (very uncharacteristically under the circumstances) - so nice. 

I see on this forum that Jane Espenson wrote it so that may have something to do with it but I usually LOVE her episodes and didn't particularly love this one.  

 

However, poor Jane has to work with what A&E have done to the show. I always rant about what I hate but here is what I liked last night:

  • Jane's creation of Bo Peep was pretty awesome and awesomely dressed (but I did think, "2 guys is an army??"). 
  • I don't care what you people say; I loved David's wig.
  • Any Grumpy screen time is good for me.
  • Snow and Charming got lines and none of them were excuses for Regina.  Nice to remember that they CAN act.
  • Frozen isn't taking away from the main characters as I feared (at least, so far) and is actually giving them more to do.
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I think the two-part finale took place a few days (at least) after the baby was born

 

I'm not so sure about that.  Zelena was jailed and murdered the same day Snowflake was born (Regina and Rumpel were wearing the same clothes) and that's also when the portal was opened.  Everyone seemed to notice the portal's beacon soon after it started (the next morning) and, while it took Emma and Hook a reeeeeeeeeeally long time to get back to the barn from Granny's, it didn't take them days.  They weren't gone very long from Storybrooke's perspective and it's been two days since they returned so that kid is only three days old.  Hopefully the next episode will explicitly state that a month has gone by so my head will stop exploding from the timeline issues.

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Zelena was jailed and murdered the same day Snowflake was born (Regina and Rumpel were wearing the same clothes) and that's also when the portal was opened.  Everyone seemed to notice the portal's beacon soon after it started (the next morning)

Oh, right. Then poor Snow, having to drag herself out to have a party the day after giving birth. That's stacking episodes day-to-day for no good reason. Zelena could have sat in jail for a few days before Rumple killed her, and everyone could have taken a break. And then how did Rumple and Belle get an engagement photo taken and in the newspaper the next day? But I think it still works that Snow wasn't sleeping well a few days before the birth, so she can still say she hasn't slept in a week, and she's got even more reason to be crabby if people are expecting her to fix stuff two days after giving birth. Even if casting the curse did make her mayor, there's nothing in the mayor's job description that says "start the emergency generator."

 

Seriously, people, calendars. Chart your timeline as you go.

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I like that GG is being allowed to look like a mom who just gave birth. Too often tv/movie pregnancies end with the new mother leaving the hospital looking exactly as she did before the pregnancy (100 lbs, flat belly) despite the fact that it has been 24-48 hours since the baby was born.

Are they afraid to kick Regina out of office? I guess we all have to tiptoe around her precious feelings to avoid inciting her magical wrath. Mary Margaret will probably suggest being co-mayors or something equally silly since Regina is so fragile and distraught over Robin.

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Seriously, people, calendars. Chart your timeline as you go.

Actually, it made me laugh and laugh that Anna and Charming's flashback took place "A long time ago." I felt like the writers were announcing "yeah, we've given up on even PRETENDING that we have a workable timeline anymore!"

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While I still enjoy the show, it feels like they are struggling needlessly to keep it going. Too much time coming up with shiny new villains to terrorize the Storybrookers, too little time hitting the emotional beats. A lot of people have pointed out the lack of concern - or perhaps even awareness - Snow seemed to have about Emma's predicament in this episode. They keep trading these things off for flashbacks with new villains like Bo Beep and revelations about this new Ice Cream Queen.

 

What is the point of this show anymore, except to promote other Disney movies and characters?

 

Charming made such a big deal to Anna about not being able to go up against and defeat Bo Peep's army. It was suppose to be insurmountable odds. Then when he actually did go confront her, it wound up that she apparently had only an army of 2. It was such a letdown. It also diminished the moral of this particular story.

 

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I mean, Snow took the kid to a power plant instead of, I don't know, getting a babysitter for a little while. At this rate baby Snowflake is going to be the worst Mama's Boy there ever was.

I liked that Regina commented on this when Snow breaks into the house. "It was the stroller that threw me. If you're going to break and enter, get a nanny." 

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I enjoyed the episode greatly.  Fast-paced, a lot happened, and I continue to enjoy Elsa and Anna on the show.  And I found it absolutely adorable when Emma said, "Cool. . . . Pun intended" to Elsa and she responded with a wonderful little smile.  Also liked that she had some time with Charming.

 

I liked the David/Anna flashback scenes, and I enjoyed Bo Peep.  Did not see it coming they'd make her a villainess.

 

Looking forward to the Snow Queen next week! :)

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Okay, so they find the locket from Elsa's missing sister in Rumplestiltskin's store, keeping in mind that he is/was a known villain, and yet nobody ever considers that maybe he had something to do with Anna's disappearance, and instead go running off after Bo Peep, who has no evident connection to the present-day case?  Charming and co. fail at being detectives.  And then the episode ends with the reveal that Anna is off to meet...Rumplestiltskin!  Duh.  That should have been the obvious line of inquiry from the start.

Edited by SeanC
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no one seemed to bat an eyelid at them nuzzling over by the chair.

It was for body heat because she was freezing and they didn't have a tauntaun to slice open! In retrospect, I am now surprised that Hook didn't pull out that "the best way to stay warm is to get naked in a sleeping bag with another person." Okay, fine, he was being too concerned about Emma to make crass jokes. But I really did wonder why they piled all the blankets on top of her instead of having one person rub each limb or at least crowd around her to give her some warmth.

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Okay, so they find the locket from Elsa's missing sister in Rumplestiltskin's store, keeping in mind that he is/was a known villain, and yet nobody ever considers that maybe he had something to do with Anna's disappearance, and instead go running off after Bo Peep, who has no evident connection to the present-day case?

Welcome to Once Upon a Time logic, where if you decide to question a lead villain's motive (a.k.a. Regina or Rumple), you're actually the villain!

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in all my years, maybe in the part of the country I grew up or perhaps the school or parents I've never heard of Bo Peep before in my life!!!

 

Still baffled why they brought this character to OUAT, froma little jinge to a full blown character? c'mon... 

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Before the episode, I'd been hoping that they'd remember that Hook wears a pretty huge, heavy coat and that they'd make use of it when they got Emma out of the ice cave, but after seeing it, there are logistical issues with that, both in shooting and in the story world. I'm not sure if Colin can get out of the coat while wearing the hook, so it could have been awkward to shoot. In the story world, I'm not sure Hook can get out of the coat while wearing the hook, and taking off the coat would have required him peeling Emma off him, which he wasn't likely to do. She probably was better off with the warmth of his body at that point than with an extra coat around her. If she'd gone into David's arms after getting out, then Hook could have removed the coat offscreen, then entered the frame to wrap the coat around her shoulders while David held her. As it was, it worked with her burrowing against Hook and then him carrying her away.

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Well, don't forget that Rumple has things in his shop from people whose deaths or disappearances he didn't have anything to do with, as well.  So it's not a far cry for me that neither Charming nor Hook put the pieces together.

 

On a side note, is anyone noticing Michael Socha's name in the starring portion of the credits?  Does this mean Will/the Knave is crossing over here down the road?

Edited by Donny Ketchum

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Okay, so they find the locket from Elsa's missing sister in Rumplestiltskin's store, keeping in mind that he is/was a known villain, and yet nobody ever considers that maybe he had something to do with Anna's disappearance, and instead go running off after Bo Peep, who has no evident connection to the present-day case?

Welcome to Once Upon a Time logic, where if you decide to question a lead villain's motive (a.k.a. Regina or Rumple), you're actually the villain!

To be fair, Hook and David were in a situation where every second counted. I can understand why they didn't stop to try to shake down (a totally non-cooperative) Rumpel at that point--he would've just poofed them off to wherever, and being poofed away would've wasted precious minutes. But yeah, I'll call foul if they don't at least ask Rumpel next episode, even if just to do due diligence. (Which, who am I kidding, I'll totally be calling foul next episode.)

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But yeah, I'll call foul if they don't at least ask Rumpel next episode, even if just to do due diligence.

 

They're gonna have to go back to Rumple eventually just because of that look on his face when

  • They mentioned the woman with the ice powers.  That pretty much wiped the snark off his face and he actually looked worried.
  • When David realized he knew who the necklace belonged to and again Rumple didn't look too confident.

 

Whatever happened to Anna, Rumple is likely 95% to 99.9% responsible for it.  She's probably urned somewhere.

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Couldn't help but picture Jane Espenson with a smirk while writing the script for this episode, mumbling once in a while "pun intended" aimed at the fans.

 

All in all enjoyed the episode, for the Elsa - Emma parts, for campy fairybacks (ignoring, it made not that much sense), little Regina and Rumple, and the introduction of Mitchell's character in the last minutes. The balance between comical relief and serious moment, tension was not good. Give it A-

 

The dialogue was unusually clunky at times though for an Espenson episode. Plot!plot!plot! is not so her thing, but she has some good hand for dialogue. It felt though kinda restricted this time, as if some limits were holding her back.

 

A crow as messenger - how melodramatic. The divine messenger, and usually bringer of bad news. Fitting the drama queen Regina. But Maleficent had the bigger bird in the movie, a raven, take that Evil Queen.

 

The Fairybacks - as camp great, as serious story not working.

 

Bo Peep was  the "worst" villain. What didn't work for Zelena though was okay for a one episode villain, all over the top. I loved the costume, finally a colorful villain and not some dark gloomy clothes (normally dislike anything pink, even if its more dusky pink). That she's a butcher in Storybrooke was fun.

 

Anna showing David sword fighting. That had some Buffy ring to it (cute, little girl a vampire hunter, no way, bubbly princess skilled in sword fights, never - her moves reminded me a bit of Xena, which then made me think, that Anna is like first season Gabrielle) Can picture Anna though bugging the soldiers of her father to show her how to fight with sword and other things. But shepherd David fighting an alleged warlord and her minions in a sword fight was still hilarious. In the end it was more about courage and not giving up though than fighting skills.

 

"They found his body in the wreckage of our cart at the bottom of a ravine." I know, that was some serious emotional moment for David, but when he said this line I had a laughing fit, which totally took me out of the scene and the dramatic moment was lost on me. Not saying there had been no car(t) accidents, but still, sounded too much like a modern tale right out of some ABC family young adult drama show.

 

It fits though with his father carrying the guilt to grave, the guilt of selling the twin to save the farm.

 

Imagined for a moment bubbly Anna with her intrepid optimism encountering dark-minded Evil Queen...

 

Question: How did David and Kristoff meet? I mean, I like that they were friends, but was Kristoff doing some world trip as journeyman to become ice master? Did Pabbie sent him on such a trip to learn some things?

 

Don't care about Captain Swan and never found the dashing pirate that charming, but didn't mind him either. This episode though he started to get on my nerves.  Is he losing it because he lost with his ship his footing? Does he feels useless? He sounds more and more needy. I hope for the best that Hook is brooding, and this is a build up to some moment for him to find something to be besides courting Emma.

 

Let's forget, that Grumpy seemed to be a guy to somehow fix things in the first cursed Storybrooke, a handy guy so to speak, that Granny was someone taking care of things quite well herself, a practical woman, and let them go and annoy for the fun the baby duty sleep deprived Snow. The only thing I liked about it was, that Snow was for once told that she should take charge.

 

Elsa and Emma bonding - about time Emma has someone to connect to aside family and charming lover. It's what she needs more than anything else at the moment. More of that!

 

And applause to Jennifer Morrison and Georgina Haig. The obvious styrofoam (just wrote storyfoam, lol) aside, they did that in studio and it was outside a hot day or so - and these two manage to look like being actually in a cold place, Georgina not sweating, Jennifer even giving some good freezing.

 

By the way, was this filmed before the ice bucket challenged picked up or while?

 

 

Oh and the second I see Jane Espenson has written something I know the logic and plotting will be completely out the window. I'm honestly shocked they didn't grab some dynamite and try to blow up the cavern to get in and rescue Emma. I mean hey last time Jane trapped someone in a cave that was the plan.

 

Blowing it up would have been last resort maybe. Not knowing the statics of the ice mass they could easily have made the ice come tumbling down and crushing them. Not to mention, magic ice wall, who knows if dynamite would even make a dent in it.

 

The deleted scene: A backup generator makes so much sense. I was watching with my resident engineer and the electrical plant really bugged him. LOL  We've been watching this show a long time and THAT bothered him.
 

 

It bothered me too, and I am not an engineer (only spend maybe too much time with some). Although it bothered me more to hear David say, he would get calls from all over town because of the outage. Good thing we have mobile phones, because most of the nifty cordless and even cord phones in the homes would have not worked, the power from the phone line is not enough for most. And lucky that the cell sites mostly have backup battery for a while. it's easier to keep mobile phones charged than the mobile service running. But the sheriff's office should have a backup generator for its stuff, including phone, to work.

 

 

Seriously, people, calendars. Chart your timeline as you go.

 

Which ones? Mayan, Egyptian, Julian, Hebrew, French Republican or Gregorian calendar (to name a few)? Kidding. The timeline drives me crazy at times too. particular the difference between time on the show and time in our world. Makes it sometimes hard to get the feeling for the development of the characters and pacing of the show.

 

 

On a side note, is anyone noticing Michael Socha's name in the starring portion of the credits?  Does this mean Will/the Knave is crossing over here down the road?

 

As regular he is always listed, regardless if he is in the episode. As he as a regular is not getting paid just for the time he is on screen, but even in parts for just being available.

Edited by katusch
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I thought he thought it was useless since it was a magical ice wall, so not your normal wall.  That it would be useless to dig at it, it would be impenetrable due to the magic.

 

Except that the ice Hook was chipping at was coming off, so there was no evidence that some kind of magic prevented him from cutting through. This would have made more sense if we'd seen that it was impossible for him to even make a dent in it. David seemed to be saying, "Don't bother, it's too thick," but it turned out not to be after all.

 

 

On a side note, is anyone noticing Michael Socha's name in the starring portion of the credits?  Does this mean Will/the Knave is crossing over here down the road?

 

Yes, he's supposed to be in the cast this season, and is obviously on contract since his name appears in the opening credits even though we haven't seen him yet. I keep getting my hopes up but so far, nothing. I don't have much hope for seeing him next week either if it's going to be all about Elizabeth Mitchell. 

Edited by iMonrey

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Okay, so they find the locket from Elsa's missing sister in Rumplestiltskin's store, keeping in mind that he is/was a known villain, and yet nobody ever considers that maybe he had something to do with Anna's disappearance, and instead go running off after Bo Peep, who has no evident connection to the present-day case?  Charming and co. fail at being detectives.  And then the episode ends with the reveal that Anna is off to meet...Rumplestiltskin!  Duh.  That should have been the obvious line of inquiry from the start.

 

They thought they could use her giant-hook-cane-thingy to find Anna since Anna had been branded that thing is made to find those with the brands.  It seemed like a quicker option, and they wouldn't have to trade a favor (like they would with Rumple).

 

 

Except that the ice Hook was chipping at was coming off, so there was no evidence that some kind of magic prevented him from cutting through. This would have made more sense if we'd seen that it was impossible for him to even make a dent in it. David seemed to be saying, "Don't bother, it's too thick," but it turned out not to be after all.

 

Doesn't mean it couldn't "heal" it self, or only let it go so far.

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So this episode had a lot of good and a lot of bad: most of which has been mentioned (though people fall into different camps on where they file each).

The Good:

- Captain Swan at the end (dear lord, that hug..the looks, the hand holding, the cuddling). It's so nice to see Emma with her walls down and

- Captain Charming (I love having David and Hook work together and have sense Good Form), from the "intentions talk" to the end where I think David finally "sees" exactly how much Emma means to Hook

- Very little Woegina (I love Lana, and Regina at times, but the premiere was everything I hate about Regina...),

- Some witty dialogue that made me smile.

- Dairy Queen (though freezing your shop seems counterproductive just to hit the audience over the head that "Yes! She has freezing powers too, in case you missed the cream freezing.. and she's evil! She put her finger IN the ice cream! Only a villain or a three year old would do that!"). This show has no idea what "subtle" means, but still, cool entrance (yes, intended pun... you just can't help it).

-SnowSwan bonding (Emma has needed a girlfriend that wasn't Snow's first forever),

- Bo Peep as a butcher (although her Enchanted Forest persona reminded me more of a madam of a whorehouse). Still, what has kept her from hacking up people that have pissed her off? Contaminating the meet? I wonder if Rumple keeps her in line....

The WTF:

- A crow messenger when texting would suffice.. or an email.

- Hook's accent (which sounded more like the Knave's/Will Scarlet) during the early scenes about "world's largest ice bucket".

- Hook's sudden unexplained grasp of multiple technology things (I mean a simple line about "Guess having Henry teach you how to Google has paid off....").

- Knowing where Snowing's space heater was when David would have been far more likely to grab such a thing. 

- David's wig (I kept wanting him to start belting out Bon Jovi).

- Snow's outfit (about as unflattering as it could possibly be).

- Belle just accepting Rumple couldn't help (I know for plot reasons, but the Dark One IS capable of finesse).

- I'm just going to fan wank that Mary Margaret didn't have a walkie-talkie and there was no cell signal by the back up generator, so while David frantically kept trying to tell MM that Emma was in danger, none of the calls went through but she's going to be like "David, why are there 13 voice mail messages from you?" when she pulls out her phone, b/c she still won't have noticed Emma shivering and cuddling with Hook.

 

The Bad:

- Snow fixing the power without any help. The town has to have someone to do such things (hello, wasn't that Grumpy?) and even if there wasn't, she shouldn't have been left alone to deal with it with a newborn. Postpartum is not a pleasant time, y'all. 

- If Snow is mayor, then she should live in the Mayor's house. Kick Regina's butt out and take the perks with the job. "MY curse, my house."

- Snow's complete nonreaction to Emma in the apartment (she didn't even glance at Emma or ask how she was, or anything, continuing the Snow character assassination that began in season 2 but spiraled out of control in Neverland when one day she swore to spend the rest of her life making it up to Emma and then declared she'd stay in Neverland w/ DreamshadeDavid without even thinking about it (yeah, I'm still mad, and keep getting more so). While David has finally come up to snuff as her dad (they never had scenes prior), the show continues to be unable to have Emma have a good relationship with both parents at the same time. Mary Margaret in season 1 was more of a parent to Emma then then after the memories returned, although their scenes in the Enchanted Forest in season 2 were ok, before Storybrooke killed BanditSnow. Sorry for the rant on this, but Snow was my favorite, and now I usually cringe when she's onscreen (though her rant about lack of sleep and nursing was awesome, cuz I have been there, done that, and lost it so it was remarkably believable for a show that often screws up parenthood). 

- The special effects: Outside of flying monkeys and Pappy Troll, the special effects on this show are so... yeah. I wish they had a cable budget. 

 

And something that I haven't seen anyone mention yet:

- The conundrum that if Charmz and Kristoff were supposedly such bffs, and Charms and his mother were going to his wedding, then since Anna left Arandelle the day of her wedding(or the day before.. I can't remember), that David and Ruth would NOT have been home when Anna arrived in the Enchanted Forest, she'd have found an empty farm because they would've been in or en-route to Arandelle. 

 

You can't be in two places at once, and say you'll be in two places at once, but then suddenly be clairvoyant that a wedding will be called off (I don't see Elsa sending crows a la Regina all across the land so everyone should have shown up as if the wedding was still one) so you can fill in random back story so Charming can know Anna and be able to talk Elsa into using her magic.

I do have to say, I have not been a fan of Rumple or Regina this season (so I'm glad they weren't around this episode). People complain how the cast is large and they keep "wasting time with new villains". Yes, this is a show about fairytales so you need villains, but when you rehabilitate your previous ones that took that time in the earlier seasons, you have to replace it with something (the new ones) or keep Rumple and Regina evil (and you can't because well, they'd either get locked away, trapped, or killed, and A&E loves R&R far to  much to do that. This is why the season 3 finale worked: it was like a season 1 revisit with all the favorite villains in their roles again, deliciously evil. 

It kinda makes me wish we'd spent the first half of the season back in time, because I would've watched the heck out of that show. 

There is also a part of me that wants magic to disappear from Storybrooke again. Needing to find a reason why Regina and Rumple can't save the day "I'll kill your girlfriend." "I'm moping." just makes the plot clunky with ridiculous excuses. I think I would enjoy them again if they lost their "all powerful" nature, with the added twist that Emma's magic CAN still work in Storybrooke (as she's been shown to have magic work outside of SB and thus not in magical land).

I'm a bit worried that the promo has the DairyQueen all out and defeated in one episode... and King George and Bo Peep need to team up. 

 

Still, a good episode even w/ the plot holes, and entertaining to watch.

Edited by OnceUponSomeChaos
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