Rose Wilder Lane

[juneday]

So I've been reading the Little House on the Prairie book thread, and also re-reading my beloved set of LH books.

I have always loved Laura Ingalls Wilder and her books, and even the articles in local newspapers that she wrote. She seemed to have a keen eye for detail and a feisty spirit not put out by a hard life. I've also read the Rose series of books by Roger Lee McBride. Apparently he was Rose's lawyer and close friend, and wrote the books about her after she died. I liked them up until the last few books where Rose became a teenager-she seemed to rebel from the way she was raised and her parents and just really not appreciate her mother. I know these books are not autobiographies, so you can't take everything as fact, but that always bothered me.

Also, people have long speculated on how much involvement Rose had in her mother's famous books. Was she just an editor? A consultant? Or did she have a heavier play in the books, even inputting her political and social views?

I've always found Rose Wilder Lane a fascinating but sort of sad person. Let's talk about her & her life & the books/short stories she wrote or that have been written about her!

[BatmanBeatles]

Rosa said she had an unhappy childhood. Her humble upbringing humiliated her in school. She said she had to sit next to the hillbilly types and she blames her bad teeth on malnutrition. She also said she never felt loved by her parents.

[juneday]

That's terribly unfortunate and sad that she felt that way. Whenever I read something like that about Rose I always wonder if Laura ever told her the stories of her childhood and young adulthood and all the hardships she and her family faced, so that Rose maybe could get a sense that her life wasn't "that bad" comparatively. And I wonder why she didn't feel loved by Laura and Almonzo?

[henrysmom]

I haven't had much sympathy for Rose since I ran across what I think of as the "fat letter" in the book West from Home.  If you haven't read this book, it is a collection of letters that Laura wrote to Almanzo when she visited San Francisco to see Rose and her husband in 1915.  In the middle of the collection is a letter Rose wrote to Almanzo, in which she told him that "Mama Bess" had gotten fat. She goes on to describe how her mother has been overeating. It is not a pleasant letter to read--I'm not quite sure why on earth Rose thought her father needed to be informed her mother had put on weight during her trip.  It just shows a nasty, spiteful side of Rose that I hate.

 

Overall I have little sympathy for Rose.  On the surface, she seems admirable.  Here was a woman ahead of her time, somebody who because a famous writer, who traveled the world, lived an independent life when it was still hard for women to do so.  But what I've read of her makes me think she must have been a difficult person to be around.  She seems a lot like Eliza Jane, somebody who wanted her own way, always thought she was right.  Fine for them, but not pleasant for the people who have to deal with having decisions thrust upon them.

Edited October 6, 2014 by henrysmom

[juneday]

I haven't had much sympathy for Rose since I ran across what I think of as the "fat letter" in the book West from Home. If you haven't read this book, it is a collection of letters that Laura wrote to Almanzo when she visited San Francisco to see Rose and her husband in 1915. In the middle of the collection is a letter Rose wrote to Almanzo, in which she told him that "Mama Bess" had gotten fat. She goes on to describe how her mother has been overeating. It is not a pleasant letter to read--I'm not quite sure why on earth Rose thought her father needed to be informed her mother had put on weight during her trip. It just shows a nasty, spiteful side of Rose that I hate.

Overall I have little sympathy for Rose. On the surface, she seems admirable. Here was a woman ahead of her time, somebody who because a famous writer, who traveled the world, lived an independent life when it was still hard for women to do so. But what I've read of her makes me think she must have been a difficult person to be around. She seems a lot like Eliza Jane, somebody who wanted her own way, always thought she was right. Fine for them, but not pleasant for the people who have to deal with having decisions thrust upon them.

I've read that letter and was very put-off by it! I agree that it did seem very spiteful. What was the point in writing back to your father to tell him that your mother had gained weight? I imagine Laura would have been embarrassed if she had found out, as most anyone would.

Yes, she did seem ahead of her time, but she also seemed unwilling to budge in her opinion of anything and narrow-minded. Which might seem like an odd thing to say since she was so ahead of her time, but she seemed very stubborn. She also seemed to not like the way her parents lived-a simple life out in the country (why would she have a problem with this?) and tried to force modernizations on them, IMO.

Edited for typos.

Edited October 7, 2014 by heckyeahheartland

[HeySandyStrange]

As to Rose not feeling loved by her parents... wasn't it sort of normal back then for parents to be more formal and stern with there kids? I remember Pa Ingalls was unusually playful and loving with his children, but not many adults were portrayed that way in Laura's books. Hell, Ma Ingalls was very much proper and outright cold sometimes. I got the impression parents weren't loving and huggy back then as they are now. So I could see how she was being a little over dramatic with that.

[henrysmom]

I suppose a lot of it depended on the family, and maybe on their situation.  I know that all four of my grandparents grew up in what would today be called dysfunctional, maybe even abusive, homes, but it wasn't given a second thought back then.  You took what you were dealt, and that was that. All the families were poor (two lived in the city, two on farms) and all the kids were expected to work from a very early age.  

 

Unfortunately, there was also a lack of the love and support that shines through in the Little House books.  Even though Laura did go to work early, at least she knew her parents loved and supported her, and she appreciated them.  Rose?  Not so much.

 

I was struck by how Rose felt humiliated by having to go to school in old clothes when living in Missouri, patched and worn, and how she held onto that feeling of humiliation for the rest of her life.  Contrast that to Laura's attitude when Nellie Olsen gets snooty when she first seems Mary and Laura and calls them country girls.  So what if they are country girls, they are still just as good (if not better) than Nellie.  But Laura had the calm dignity of Ma to support her, and Pa's fun loving nature to give their hard life a little joy.

 

Maybe Rose did feel a lack of love from her parents.  The first 8 years of Laura and Almanzo's marriage were a living hell.  I honestly can't imagine living through all they did. Rose spent at least some of those years separated from her parents.  That had to leave a scar of sorts.  

 

And Laura comes across as more of a dignified Ma type figure, maybe lacking the open warmth Rose needed.  Add to that the fact that Almanzo came out of those first years crippled from his stroke, and struggled just to do his farm work.  He always came across as a taciturn man, and I am more than a little haunted by an answer he gave to a questionnaire Rose sent him as she was gathering background info for one of her fiction books.  He said "My life has been mostly disappointments."  I can't imagine he was able to give Rose much in the way of love and support if he felt that.

 

Maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into feeling some sympathy for Rose, because she does come across as a hard-headed, unsympathetic person, especially in contrast to the wonderful portraits of the Ingalls family painted by her mother.

[juneday]

. Add to that the fact that Almanzo came out of those first years crippled from his stroke, and struggled just to do his farm work. He always came across as a taciturn man, and I am more than a little haunted by an answer he gave to a questionnaire Rose sent him as she was gathering background info for one of her fiction books. He said "My life has been mostly disappointments." I can't imagine he was able to give Rose much in the way of love and support if he felt that.

Maybe I'm just trying to talk myself into feeling some sympathy for Rose, because she does come across as a hard-headed, unsympathetic person, especially in contrast to the wonderful portraits of the Ingalls family painted by her mother.

Oh yes, I remember reading that and having to read it again because it just struck me as so sad. And admitting it out loud to your daughter was even more sad. I know that at least the first years of Laura and Almonzo's marriage really was terrible in terms of all the struggles they went through-financially and physically. But I have to wonder what made Almonzo feel that his whole life had just been a disappointment.

Rose's attitude towards being poor was very different to Laura's. While Laura always seemed to have a spunky, I'm-still-just-as-good-as-you attitude towards it, Rose always seemed deeply ashamed & like she blamed her parents for their lack of luck and prosperity in life.

Also, I also wondered about Gillette Lane, the man she married. We never heard much about him. Who was he exactly?

[henrysmom]

I don't think people know much about Gillette Lane.  You can read a little bit here:

http://www.liwfrontiergirl.com/rose.html

 

That site has a link to the full text of the book Diverging Roads, which Rose based on her life with Gillette Lane.  I haven't read the book because, quite frankly, I don't care for Rose's fiction.  Just this morning I happened to read her short story "Innocence" and throughout the whole thing I kept muttering "this won awards?  was a standard inclusion in school anthologies?  Why?"  

 

Though "Innocence" might be interesting to those who want a little more insight into the Rose/Laura relationship, since the story portrays the Laura character as a snob who looks down on the woman her brother (cousin in real life) married.  

 

Also, the New Yorker had a great article about the mother and daughter, with some interesting bits about Gillette Lane.

 

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/08/10/wilder-women

Edited October 13, 2014 by henrysmom

[smittykins]

From what I've read, nobody is sure exactly when Rose's son(who died at birth or shortly afterwards) was born; the best guess is around 1910).

[Pickles Aplenty]

I don't particularly like Rose, but I don't blame her for being so frustrated with her parents.  Clearly, they were not cut out for farming, yet they kept doing it and losing everything.  I know that's what they were both raised with and that's all they knew, but if Rose was as bright as people said she was, I can totally understand how she would be baffled at her parents' insistence that they continue to live in poverty and wear raggedy-ass clothes, just so they could be farmers.  Ugh.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Billina

[henrysmom]

Rose's son's death certificate was recently found.  Here is a link:

http://archives.utah.gov/indexes/data/81448/2229322/2229322_0000278.jpg

 

He was stillborn on November 23, 1909.

 

 

[CherryAmes]

Clearly, they were not cut out for farming, yet they kept doing it and losing everything.

 

Laura though did know what she was doing around a farm, at least from everything I've read about her life once they settled in Missouri.  I'm not so sure it's that they didn't know how to farm so much as it was that they had a series of bad breaks and didn't always make the best choices in terms of where they farmed.

[henrysmom]

If you haven't read the book Little House Sampler, I highly recommend it if you have questions about why Laura and Almanzo continued to farm. This morning I read a series of short essays Rose wrote in which she addressed the question of why on earth her parents insisted on staying on the farm, when she was more than willing to help them relocate to the city and "civilization".  

 

Summed up and simplified, it was basically that they were happy on the farm.  They loved it.  Rose didn't understand that when she was younger, and pressuring them to leave, but eventually (at least for the purposes of the essays) she realized that they wouldn't be happy anywhere but on their farm.  

 

Rose mentions how Laura didn't want curtains covering her windows--those were her pictures, and they were constantly changing.  She could see and enjoy the sunrises and sunsets, she didn't have to rush and hurry.  She and Almanzo answered to nobody but themselves.  There is also a nice little word picture of Almanzo and his great pride in a Jersey cow.  

 

Yes, farming is hard and incredibly unrewarding at times.  You can work hard, as Laura and Almanzo both did, and still fail because you are at the mercy of the weather and other things out of your control--fire, grasshoppers, tornadoes, and anything else nature can throw at you.  But if you want to farm, nothing on earth is going to stop you.  I've seen that in my own family--my farmer grandfather did everything he could to keep his kids from farming.  The youngest son wanted to farm.  He needed to farm.  No argument could stop him.  Outsiders can't understand it.  I'd rather work for a steady paycheck.  But I'm also in an office 8 1/2 hours a day, and have an 1/2 commute each way every day.  I'm sure to some farmers, that is crazy.  Eventually you just have to accept that what works for you doesn't work for everybody, which I think Rose did accept, in a fashion.

 

[Stargazer3]

Henrysmom, thank you for the link to the baby's death certificate. They were in Utah at the time staying in a hotel. Her pregnancy was only 6 months along. That's too bad. I wonder what went wrong and what they were doing there.

[juneday]

Thank you for the links, henrysmom! I've yet to read Diverging Roads but I think I will start tonight.

The death certificate was interesting but sad. One thing I've always found a little strange was how mothers and fathers didn't pick out names for their babies before they were born. I know they didn't have the technology to tell if they were a boy or girl but you would think they would have potential names picked out. "Infant Lane" is so sad.

I am also of the opinion that Almonzo wasn't necesarily a *bad* farmer, just that he had a lot of back luck and maybe not the best brain for finances. Sort of like the Ingalls, except I always got the feeling that Almonzo was a lot harder worker than Pa was.

[juneday]

Thank you for the links, henrysmom! I've yet to read Diverging Roads but I think I will start tonight.
The death certificate was interesting but sad. One thing I've always found a little strange was how mothers and fathers didn't pick out names for their babies before they were born. I know they didn't have the technology to tell if they were a boy or girl but you would think they would have potential names picked out. "Infant Lane" is so sad.
I am also of the opinion that Almonzo wasn't necesarily a *bad* farmer, just that he had a lot of back luck and maybe not the best brain for finances. Sort of like the Ingalls, except I always got the feeling that Almonzo was a lot harder worker than Pa was.

Is Innocence the short story about the little girl going to Florida with her parents? And there is a lady named Aunt Molly there who tries to poison her with a gumball or something? If so, I've read that multiple times in The Little House Sampler and found it intriguing but very odd.

[henrysmom]

One thing I've always found a little strange was how mothers and fathers didn't pick out names for their babies before they were born. I know they didn't have the technology to tell if they were a boy or girl but you would think they would have potential names picked out. "Infant Lane" is so sad.

 

 

I think a lot of that is a sign of the times they lived in.  Many babies died soon after birth, many more were stillborn or miscarried.  Women didn't have access to the prenatal care they do now, and doctors and midwives who actually knew anything about the importance of cleanliness were rare. Heck, most women, especially those in pioneer areas gave birth with just their husband's help, or a neighbor's.  If that. You have to wonder how any child survived.

 

That said, I think a lot of women just didn't want to "jinx" themselves by selecting names.  Or they wanted to save names for the child/children that did live.  Rose may have had a name picked out, but wanted to save it for a future child.  But since she rarely talked about this baby, we'll never know.

 

Is Innocence the short story about the little girl going to Florida with her parents?

 

 

Yes, that is the one.  Odd story.  I'm still trying to figure out what was going on there.

Edited October 16, 2014 by henrysmom

[juneday]

They certainly had bad luck in that family with baby boys!

I think Rose had a dark sense of humor or just a dark way of writing. I've heard somewhere that it was speculated that she had depression.

[BatmanBeatles]

She was suicidal after her divorce.

[juneday]

She was suicidal after her divorce.

And physchaitrists were looked at like "kooks" or frauds at that time, right? So she probably never got any substantial help for her mental problems.

[Stargazer3]

Am I mistaken or is RWL's Diverging Roads the almost the same, slightly changed book that was published as Bachelor Girl by Roger Lee McBride? It's been a long time since I read his series of books about Rose but I know I've read that storyline before. Does anyone know how true those books are? I've wondered about them. The two boys taken in by the family, (one named Swiney, I think), and the two brothers Rose "adopts" named Turner I think, seemed very similar to me and I wondered how much of Rose's life had been embellished. We do know that Laura's books were not the absolute truth, so I might think the ones about Rose might have been too. And of course she wasn't alive when these books were published to dispute the truth in them.

[henrysmom]

I have yet to read either, but a review on Amazon puts it like this:

 

 

As true Laura and/or Rose fans know, "Bachelor Girl" is simply a redress of Roger MacBride's 1977 "biography" of Rose Wilder Lane, which in turn was a rip-off of Roses's 1919 'semi' autobiographical novel, "Diverging Roads".

 

Another reviewer says this about Bachelor Girl, which only makes me want to read it more:

 

 

And in terms of this being a book for girls -- never! The book gives practical instructions for how to learn to drink alcohol, stay out all night partying, and deal with low self esteem by wearing racy styles and flirting. Rose's highly moral fiance is treated with contempt and presented as a foolish and selfish, while the careless, money-grubbing rival wins out in the end. Roger Lea MacBride, Rose Wilder Lane and Laura Ingalls Wilder would be spinning in their graves.

 

[juneday]

I remember reading Bachelor Girl when I was younger. It was very different from the themes of the other Rose books by Roger Lee McBride and I remember not liking Rose in that book and thinking she was being quite the rebel.

I haven't gotten past the first chapter of Diverging Roads (I found Rose's writing style hard to get through tbh) so I don't know if they're similar or not.

[Katy M]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2014 at 4:02 PM, CherryAmes said:

Laura though did know what she was doing around a farm, at least from everything I've read about her life once they settled in Missouri.  I'm not so sure it's that they didn't know how to farm so much as it was that they had a series of bad breaks and didn't always make the best choices in terms of where they farmed.

Yes, farming success really depends on more than your skill.  The weather, the soil, bugs, plant disease.

[dargosmydaddy]

Just finished reading RWL's novel Free Land, which was fairly enjoyable. Kind of like a retelling of Laura's later books (from The Long Winter on) from an adult perspective. The main character is clearly based on Almanzo and his experiences, though strangely the woman he marries is not based on Laura, yet the neighbor family is reminiscent of the Ingallses and there's some weird sexual chemistry between the Almanzo character and the neighbor girl who is clearly based on Laura.

[Queena]

I don't want to make a new topic... But I'm reading Prairie Fires and I'm not liking Rose at all. The way that she treated her parents bother me. She wouldn't even visit her father before his death. She was not a nice person. 

[Starleigh]

I definitely got the impression that Rose suffered from mental illness from Prairie Fires. The intense lows, manic highs (those crazy spending sprees and impulsive jaunts to Europe for years at a time, etc) point to bipolar, imo. It would explain so much.

But you know who really comes across as greedy and opportunistic in that book? Roger Lea MacBride, her heir.

[Prairie Rose]

I just checked out The Young Pioneers from the library and am going in with absolutely no expectations. After I finish, I will check out the two TV movies from the late 1970s that the book was based on starring Linda Purl.

[Prairie Rose]

I just finished Young Pioneers (which was originally published under the title Let the Hurricane Roar). Supposedly, it was based on the early married life of her grandparents, Charles and Caroline. It's not a masterpiece like the Little House books, but it was good in its own right. 

RWL described the grasshopper invasion in graphic, vivid, frightening detail. I have a major bug/insect phobia and nearly lost my dinner reading it. Seriously!

It was also a very brief read (175 pages). I may check out more RWL titles if my local library system carries them.

[Snowball II]

I just started reading Prairie Fires.  I don't like adult Rose, but I feel kind of bad for child Rose.  She describes a very lonely, isolated childhood, where her parents are too wrapped up in everything else that's happening to give her much attention or love.  I can believe that happened, even if Laura and Almanzo never intended it to be that way.  Too many awful things happened to the family in such a short amount of time, it wouldn't be the least bit surprising if little Rose was emotionally neglected as a result.