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S04.E01: A Tale Of Two Sisters

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I thought it was an okay episode. I couldn't stand any of the sad Regina crap. I was literally raging on twitter and scaring my non-obsessed friends. lol Regina did not just forget Sydney, but she enslaved him yet again. I just can't... Comparing Regina to Elsa was a real insult to Elsa. And I wash my hands off Robin. He's a douche. He was probably an axe-murderer or something before. 

 

I loved all the Elsa/Anna scenes, although it's rather odd for Anna to go on a quest just before her wedding. I doubt she's in Storybrooke though. She probably did not get swept-up with the second curse.

 

All the Rumbelle stuff was meh. But the Fantasia hat, though! I am intrigued.

 

I mostly liked the CS moments, but I felt irritated that Emma's avoiding him just after letting him in the night before, whatever the reason may be. It's like she's doing the bare minimum to keep him from protesting too much. And of all things from guilt over Regina! 

Edited by Rumsy4
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The whole thing with Robin seeing Regina as two different people because he used to be a bad guy and staying with Marian because he made vows and not because he loves her works my last nerve.

 

I can sort of, if I squint, handle Robin dealing with Past!Regina and Now!Regina, due to actually seeing her fight with Good Guys and wrestle with her past. It's the "I made a vow "/ ""I have rules" that has me rolling my eyes. If you have fallen out of love with Marian, that's not wrong or evil. Yet, staying with Marian solely because Robin married her first (in essence), is pretty douche-y. For Marian, it's like she hasn't been away for long at all, so I get her being more emotional about the Robin/Regina sitch. Maybe Marian and Roland should stay together at Granny's until the three adult persons can figure out what's what.

 

Where the squinting falls apart is the whole Regina was thisclose from executing Marian before Emma rescued her.  We may not have seen it but based on what we did see, I have no doubts that Marian told Robin about it.  But it doesn't come up?

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Seeing the positive (so far) responses to the Frozen parts of the episode tells me that my spec from last spring was correct: that Disney was letting the show use the characters with an insane list of caveats.  Elsa was sympathetic, Anna was a hoot, Kristoff and Sven were awesome, Arandelle was lovely, and, most importantly, the relationship between the sisters was spot on.  I think the show has a designated Frozen consultant sent over from Disney who goes over each script, reports back to the studio heads, and then gives approval before they can proceed.  No way will the current golden goose be allowed to look bad and, so far, the reactions are looking good.

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I wonder if Sidney wrote the book since it was Yensis in Fantasia. That would get the Disney anagram in there.

I like the Frozen stuff although I wonder how it will fit with the other elements of the show. Hard to tell when no one has met the characters yet.

I half expected Emma to start singing "Do You Want to Build a Snowman?" when she talked to Regina through the door.

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Where the squinting falls apart is the whole Regina was thisclose from executing Marian before Emma rescued her.  We may not have seen it but based on what we did see, I have no doubts that Marian told Robin about it.  But it doesn't come up?

 

No one is allowed to bring up anything bad Regina ever did. IF they do, they're toast.

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I've never jumped on the bandwagon to start loathing Woegina, but this episode pushed me much closer to the borderline. It was so ridiculous. I just couldn't with this one. I didn't even understand it, to be perfectly honest. No one on the show made sense when it came to Regina at all. I didn't get what the writers were trying to sell me - Is she redeemed or not? The mixed signals were constant. I don't believe she's redeemed at all, but I couldn't tell what the show was attempting to say.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Robert Carlyle continues to out act the lot (of course, he can out act most folks) I actually loved the first dance.

The Frozen characters were fine but having no investment in Frozen I would have preferred to stick with the core group and spend time on their struggles. Strangely, I didn't find the Neverland story line a tangent. Maybe because Neverland was so entwined with the core group. OTOH I found Wicked to be a tangent and the relationship with Regina to be insufficient to justify its screen time.

The snow creature looked a lot like the hulk. 'Course without the Frozen storyline we would have been spared that character.

I'm fine with Regina (and Rumple) swinging between good and evil. Realistic.

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Also, can someone explain to me why Emma of all people was the one to say "Regina has worked so hard to be good"? If it was Snow, I could maybe buy it (especially given her Stockholm Syndrome), or even Charming or Henry (because he wants so bad to believe in Regina), but Emma wasn't there for the Missing Year. Emma's last experience with Regina is working with her in Neverland to save Henry...and before that, Regina trying to kill the entire town. That was another line that took me way out of the moment. It didn't make sense for the character saying it.

 

 

It's Emma's last experience if we omit the time travel. Since I don't buy the bullshit that Regina and the Evil Queen are two different people, Emma's last experience with Regina was Regina killing her mother, or at least trying to. But hey, what's a little murder between two people?

 

I need a drink. Or three.

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I'm fine with Regina (and Rumple) swinging between good and evil. Realistic.

 

That's very much in-character, I agree. It's the other characters' perception of them that I find unnatural.

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I've never jumped on the bandwagon to start loathing Woegina, but this episode pushed me much closer to the borderline.

Welcome, KingOfHearts.

 

There are no badges or costumes, but I promise you won't have to recite a loyalty oath and I make a mean brownie.  Meetings happen daily.

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I'm fine with Regina (and Rumple) swinging between good and evil. Realistic.

I'd be fine with it if the show let the other characters acknowledge it and act appropriately. And also if it stopped acting like Murderer Regina is the world's biggest victim. She's not even the show's biggest victim.

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I find I don't have much to say about this episode.  The Frozen stuff, which I was dreading, was ok but I doubt I'll be particularly interested in it until they start crossing paths with the main characters.  I spent a lot of time thinking, well CGI is pretty good compared to Pinocchio and whether they got more money so Frozen didn't look stupid or if they've blown the entire season's budget.

 

I find I'm just exhausted by the billionth time Regina is lamenting about how everything that happens to her is unfair.  I don't even want to analyze it anymore.

 

That leaves me with...I thought it was cute that Hook was so eager to do Netflix with Emma even though he doesn't know what that is and I wonder who will be the first to wear Mickey's hat? 

Edited by ParadoxLost
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The writing is so bad that I cannot even dislike Regina. I spend most of the episodes shaking my head at the rubbish that the writers churn about the character. It always amazes me that the writers of this show lack this awareness. This show should have much higher ratings, but the writers constantly let down the story down.

Edited by SimoneS
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I really liked this episode. It flew by. Then again, I'm so glad the show is back that I don't think it was very hard to please me.

 

I actually quite liked Regina's SL right until that scene were she was crying against the door. I know we're supposed to feel sorry for her, but she has made so many people miserable that I just can't. I mean, even in this episode she had completely forgotten about Sidney and forced him into the mirror even though it made him miserable. At least it's believeable and I liked that scene when she saw the past and changed her mind. It's the other characters "love" of her that doesn't make sense. Emma needs to stop caring about what happens to her, it's not her responsibility for Regina to get a happy ending, neither it's the book's fault. Look Regina, Rumple is in his honeymoon and Hook is kissing Emma on a daily basis, so villains can get happy endings. Maybe if you stop blaming everyone and everything else you could be happy. You have Henry.

 

I liked the Frozen stuff but Anna annoyed me a bit going with the wedding dress everywhere. I was waiting for a disaster to happen and it distracted me LOL. I like how all the frozen characters were portrayed.

 

I love how much Emma smiled in that last scene with Hook. That line "She lost someone she really cares for because of me" though. Oh Emma, if you only knew the truth about Graham. Oh and you recently thought you lost your mother too. Because of Regina. But I agree with Hook and it's not only because of Regina that Emma can't let herself have a happy moment.

Edited by MaiLuna
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But I agree with Hook and it's not only because of Regina that Emma can't let herself have a happy moment.

 

Yeah. It's like self-sabotage taken to a whole new level. I'm getting tired of it. 

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I actually quite liked Regina's SL right until that scene were she was crying against the door.

 

Regina's actions were believable and in-character, imo. What bothers me is the excessive screen time dedicated to her sadness, then the other characters revolving around her. Regina herself was okay until the door scene... her book logic is super wonky.

 

I just didn't like watching her drama. It was slow, illogical, and just not going anywhere. It was dreadfully boring.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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MaiLuna, I cannot believe that someone else remembers poor Graham. I know that the writers don't. Every time someone goes "poor Regina," I think her cruelly crushing Graham's heart. The writers act like everyone Regina has killed mean nothing. Does Snow remember her killing her nanny in front her? I find this very annoying.

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I was pretty spoiled for this, so my reactions were somewhat tainted. Nevertheless.

 

Liked:
- Frozen. I liked the film well enough but didn't necessarily expect to love Once's version. But I thought they did a great job in casting and writing, and I'm sufficiently intrigued to see what happens next in that storyline. Georgina Haig especially has really great screen presence as Elsa.
- Emma telling Regina she won't apologise for saving a life. Though I wish that's all she had to say on the matter.
- Hook calling Emma on her shit.
"I don't know what that is but sure!"
- Sidney's back! Just in time, too, because it looks like the Storybrooke Daily Mirror has really gone downhill if the front-page story is "Mr Gold to Marry Belle French"
- Rumple seems to be getting a storyline that isn't his relationship with Belle thank god. And I'm intrigued to see where the Sorcerer's Apprentice thing goes.

 

Didn't like
- Just about everything Regina. Like others have said, I want to be able to handwave a lot of stuff, but they're making it so. damn. hard.
- I found the Beauty and the Beast dance totally cringe-y. Did they have to replicate the '80s cartoon outfits exactly?
- Charming's wig. Honestly, Jared Gilmore has half finished puberty and Ginnifer Goodwin has gone down many sizes since the finale. I would barely have noticed if they'd just gone with whatever the Josh Dallas's hair looked like at the time of shooting.

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You know, the more I think about the episode, the more impressed I am with Georgina Haig, Elizabeth Lail, and Scott Michael Foster. I've never seen Frozen, so am predisposed to neither like nor dislike the Frozen stuff, but I found it really intriguing--certainly more intriguing than the Storybrooke half of the episode. I'm actually really looking forward to Anna's time in the Enchanted Forest, and the storyline that develops from it (far more than I'm looking forward to 99% of the upcoming Storybrooke stuff, tbh). And that's all on Haig/Lail/Foster. In the space of one episode, they made me care a lot about them. Bravo, you three. A lot of this episode was on your backs, and you delivered.

 

Regina herself was okay until the door scene... her book logic is super wonky.

I'm really hoping that the show is actually going to have Regina just go full-on crazy, and this is the prelude. Sadly, I'm 99.9% sure that's not the case.

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I'm really hoping that the show is actually going to have Regina just go full-on crazy, and this is the prelude. Sadly, I'm 99.9% sure that's not the case.

 

If Regina goes Evil Queen psycho mode crazy in Storybrooke, then so be it. I'd like to see that. It would show everyone who she truly is. But that's not going to happen because a thousand Evil Regals will cry bloody murder. I absolutely hate how much they keep having her toe this line of good and evil. This episode just highlighted how twisted the writing for her is. It's a never ending circle.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Regina's actions were believable and in-character, imo. What bothers me is the excessive screen time dedicated to her sadness, then the other characters revolving around her. Regina herself was okay until the door scene... her book logic is super wonky.

 

It would go a long way if they would cut down slightly on Regina's screen time and allocate it to a few characters pragmatically discussing how to deal with her if she goes evil or how to stop that from happening.  It was a good choice that everyone jumped immediately to worry that she is going to go evil again.  Giving a few scenes where they discuss the bad consequences of rejecting Regina's lasagna would let them have these supportive scenes for Regina, but make them layered with ulterior motives so it doesn't come across as either all these characters are idiots or the writers are.

 

Really, Regina acts completely in character all the time.  Its how everyone reacts to Regina that makes no sense. 

Edited by ParadoxLost
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Wasn't sure what to expect with the Frozen stuff, since I never saw it and kind of got tired of all the media hype over it.  Also, I still suspect that part of the reason they are doing this is trying to ride the wave of hype.  And, yet, it was probably the best part.  Anna is charming and likable as hell, and Elsa seems like we could finally get an interesting antagonist.  I like that she isn't evil, but seems to be on a quest to find Anna, and it's her fear that is accidentally causing harm to everyone else.  I hope they keep it up, and don't falter ont that.  As for the guy, he was cool, but it was a little weird seeing Scott Michael Foster as a nice guy again, after his scumy role on Halt and Catch Fire this summer.

 

Everything else though, dear God.  I've had it with this Regina shit.  I used to enjoy her.  I still love Lana Parilla.  But, this is too ridiculous.  The whole idea that I'm suppose to feel sorry for her is stupid, stupid, stupid!  She killed Marian!  Had it been someone else like Cora or Rumpel, the pity party would make sense.  But, it doesn't, because she caused all this, and the rest of the characters treating her with kid gloves is such bullshit!  This show is the worst at this, when it comes to giving Regina and Rumpel passes.  But, at least with Rumpel, I get the sense he knows that he is a horrible person and everyone but silly Belle, at least treats him with levels of disdain.  Regina just gets pass after pass after pass, with this group.  Ugh!  Just, ugh.

 

So, of course, this means that she's decided the book is evil, and has released Gus Fring... I mean Sidney the Mirror to find whoever wrote it, and kill them.  I already don't care, because no matter what happens, she'll be forgiven.  At this rate, I think the only thing she could do that will turn them off for good is kill Henry.

 

Between Hook's bitching about how monster just keep popping up, and Charming's "Well, no one's been incinerated yet!" retort, I do hope we get more Hook/Charming stuff.  I could watch scenes of just those two, making remarks at all the silly stuff that keeps happening in Storybrooke.

 

All the stuff with the snowmonster was campy, but I laughed.  Especially at Grumpy.  Credit to Lee Arenberg for completely embracing the "Monster, run!!!" lines, and having fun with it.  He would fit right in a Godzilla movie.

 

I hope that was the Fantasia hat.  I would love to see a CGI Mickey Mouse in this joint.  Also, I really hope the author of Regina's evil book is Walt Disney himself, and he's played by Tom Hanks.  I can dream.

Edited by thuganomics85
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I didn't hate the episode.  I wasn't happy about the Frozen stuff (never saw the movie and probably never will), but I thought it was well done.  The episode seemed very fast paced.  I couldn't believe that it was over so quickly.
I thought so too, the episode flew by.

 

I just watched on the DVR, and I think there were more commercials than usual. I wouldn't know until I see the minute count on my Amazon tomorrow, but, as I was fast-forwarding, it seemed like the ratio of show to ads was closer than normal. My guess is ABC is using the "Frozen" story to push for more ad revenue.

 

I thought it was decent. I agree with most of you about Regina's "redemption". But for me, it is what it is, and I've "let it go". (I can't believe I just wrote that.)

 

Kristoff being Kristoff, I'm a little surprised he didn't go with Anna. Why is Elsa being alone worse than Anna being alone? The latter is his fiancee, after all. But if it gives us more Kristoff scenes, cool.

 

I was intrigued by the Fantasia hat. "Fantasia" might not be as well known these days. I think it was put in the Disney Vault, next to "Song of the South", due to some other segments that could be offensive. I'm sure all the scenes are accessible online somewhere, but I bet there are a lot of people who haven't even seen "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" short. The hat was an intentional choice, so I'm curious what the writers have up their sleeves (can't believe I wrote that either).

 

ETA: Just looked on Amazon, and I guess most of Fantasia is accessible on DVD, etc. right now. I don't know why I thought otherwise.

Edited by Dust Bunny
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That she saved Marian in the clinch tells me she's going to waffle in going evil again.

Of course she will.  Then at the end of the season she'll have Robin again, but then she'll trip over a coffee table and break her ankle. And because this is Regina, who can't stand to have one little thing ruin her idea of perfect happiness, she'll seek bloody vengeance against any and all coffee table makers. She'll murder a few innocents and then decide murdering present coffee table makers isn't enough and she has to go back in time and murder the first person to ever make a coffee table. But then Henry will make a tearful speech saying she's not a villain, Regina will shed a few tears, save a few people's lives, which is apparently all the writers think it takes to show a character's redemption. And then it's going to be lather, rinse, repeat all over again.

 

The writer's need to look up the word redemption and really figure out how to write an actual one or just give up the ghost and just write Regina (and Rumple) as villains.

 

It was mostly a meh premiere for me. I didn't see Frozen yet, so I wasn't really excited about the story coming to the show. Nothing in the premiere really changed my mind. I think Else can be a good foil on the show, but I was too pissed about having characters I don't care about taking up 70% of the episode, while Snow and Charming were horribly side-lined. Plus, I thought the character of Anna was kind of a little much. I think they were going for cute, but her rambling kind of annoyed and felt like they were trying to hard for adorable. Plus, she reminded me a lot of Ariel, and I'd just prefer Ariel if we're going to get that character.

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I actually did like the premiere episode. A bit boring at times, sure, but I think it has some plotlines being set up that will be infinitely more interesting than last season's. I was worried with Regina's plotline and her going back in time. I literally rolled my eyes when I heard her tell Sidney that she wanted to travel back. However, this new direction with wanting to find The Writer is so much more interesting, because it's a plot point many people have been wondering about since season 1, especially with August rolling into town and changing the book and people wondering if he was The Writer. Ok, clearly not, but we might get a cameo from Eion Bailey (if he so chooses to come back) and that's a plus. I liked season 1 August, hated season 2 August but I am more than happy to solve the mystery of the storybook.

 

I really loved the Frozen storyline. I was really worried because, you know, it's a new Disney film, very popular and I just didn't think I wanted it. But with Scott Michael Foster (swoon worthy), Georgina Haig and Elizabeth Lail perfecting their characters thus far, I really could love this storyline the best. I loved Anna's quirkiness, Elsa's worry and Kristoff's humour. Also, Sven, especially when he was shaking his head at Kristoff. At least his CGI was better than the Snow Monster, though. I am very underwhelmed by the creature, to be honest. It was just ok but nothing great. 

 

I really appreciated Rumple being at Neal's grave. We finally get something with Rumple/Neal and him actually being honest and remorseful toward him. It literally takes his death for him to really start talking to him, which is sad. But this whole Sorcerer's Hat thing, I am curious to see what that's about and whose story it'll connect to. Probably Regina's. 

 

I'll admit to not being much of a fan of Captain Swan. I can see the appeal for others, but I just really don't care all that much. With that being said, their scene in the woods was cute enough and I am glad Emma's finding her own happiness, and Hook seems to be a good fit for her at the moment so whatever. I might fast forward through their scenes mostly because of the heavy handled dialogue, but overall they're just ok for me. 

 

I was really hoping Charming and Snow would come to their senses and rename the kid. I'm sorry, I like Neal, but their child should not be named Neal.

 

Marion's an ok character. I don't particularly like her and don't like this storyline with her, to be honest. I think we do need a lot less Regina and her having the main/major subplots, though.

Edited by jessied112
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BTW, did I understand correctly that Anna caught a ship and sailed away to investigate her parents death on her wedding day and no one found it odd or did I mishear the timing of the wedding?

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BTW, did I understand correctly that Anna caught a ship and sailed away to investigate her parents death on her wedding day and no one found it odd or did I mishear the timing of the wedding?

 

No. You did not mishear. She figuratively left her groom at the altar to go on a vague quest for her sister. 

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If Regina goes Evil Queen psycho mode crazy in Storybrooke, then so be it. I'd like to see that. It would show everyone who she truly is. But that's not going to happen because a thousand Evil Regals will cry bloody murder. I absolutely hate how much they keep having her toe this line of good and evil. This episode just highlighted how twisted the writing for her is. It's a never ending circle.

 

Especially a certain sect of Evil Regals (you know the ones I'm talking about!).

 

This episode will pop up on Hulu later in the week, right?  That's the only way I'm going to be able to watch it, since I no longer have cable and rabbit ears only bring in a religious station that is so over-the-top that it would make even the Religious Right cringe.

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I'm really hoping that the show is actually going to have Regina just go full-on crazy, and this is the prelude. Sadly, I'm 99.9% sure that's not the case.

I really think this is the conflict can she find a way to become good and deal with the ups and downs that normal people face or will she once again resort to what she knows best.  Regina is a very fun villain and in the world of fairy tales good and evil is black and white and without any grey.

 

I liked how they want to help Regina and think that they should react like they would with a normal person but she isn't normal and her first instinct will always go to a quick fix.

 

I did watch Frozen and actually liked it much to my surprise.  It reminded me of Beauty and the Beast and the Little Mermaid and I really liked what they did.  I also enjoyed the twists the came up with.  But I also doubt that Disney would give them permission to change the costumes too much if they are in period piece dress, now in the modern time, I think they can get away with it and I wouldn't mind them exploring that.

 

As far as the snowman and special effects, I didn't have a problem, but then again, I grew up when special effects were pretty bad.  Watch the first Star Trek show and you can still see the ship being pulled by a string.  However, we the viewer were asked to use our imagination and play what if this could happen.  I think it is sad that some will never know how to use their imagination while watching a show.

 

I really liked the show and I found this story far more interesting than I did when they went to Neverland.  But then again I'm not looking for  a deep show, just the enjoyment I experienced in season 1 when they mixed up the old fairy tales with a splatter of today.

 

Since I teach middle school, you can't deal with how a young person will grow up, the growth spurts are unpredictable and I didn't have a problem with Henry.  Of course for me, he's always been a weaker actor, so my expectations are low to begin with. 

 

I did laugh when I realized they had sleepy driving, duh how stupid can you be grumpy?  lol

So I enjoyed it and I'm really looking forward for more

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I had to run off right after the episode, so its just now that I can get all my thoughts out...

 

The Good:

I enjoyed all the frozen stuff. The characters were all pretty spot on and likable, especially Anna. I loved Frozen, so I was a little worried about this, but if they keep this up, I should be pretty happy. Plus, Cappie from Greek!

Captain Swan! I loved when how just as Hook was complaining about how there's always some emergency (I feel ya Hook) Grumpy runs by screaming "we`re under attack!", and you just see him get this "Oh for the love of God, here we go again" look on his face. It was just awesome. Pretty much any scene with him and Emma was 100% golden.

The effects actually looked pretty good, and I love that this show gives characters excuses to say things like "we`re being attacked by an evil snowman!"

Marian actually made a good impression, yelling at Regina about how she was evil, and asking why everyone was just hanging out with her. Like, thank you Marian! Iv been yelling that at my TV for two freaking seasons!

Acting was all pretty good. I even thought the scene where Robin tells Regina he has to go back to Marian was well done.

I like that they are talking about the book again. The whole storybook thing has been kind of lost in the shuffle, but I`m still curious about it. Who's the author? How are they stories in this world, and also real?

 

The Bad:

SHUT UP REGINA! I just, it took every fiber of my being not to scare my neighbors by screaming at the TV. I must have scared the crap out my Twitter followers, I was raging so hard. This is ridiculous! So now she's evil? Or not? Or she`ll just cry more crocodile tears, whatever. News flash Regina: Being a good person, a really good person, means you stay a good person even when the going gets tough! You sacrifice for the greater good, and for the people you love. You should be at least a LITTLE happy that the man you claim to care about was reunited with his dead wife, and the little boy she clearly wants to raise as her own now gets his beloved mother back. But NO, its all about Regina. AND she's been keeping Sydney locked up all this time? Even after her supposed turn to the light? Where she used freaking LIGHT GOOD SPARKLE MAGIC!?!?! GOOD GUYS DONT IMPRISON PEOPLE FOR STUFF THEY DIDNT DO REGINA! GOD!

*clears throat* anywho...

Very little Charmings, and little from the rest of the supporting cast. Don't you dare skimp on my beloved Charming!

Emma, don't feel bad about saving someone from Regina! Not Ever!

Not the most exciting opener ever

Still don't know how I feel about Rumple and Belle. I find them kind of interesting, but also kind of creepy.

 

All in all, if you cut out all the Regina crap, it was a pretty solid opener, albeit a little slow. 

Oh, and I swear, if that hat means that the author, the mastermind pulling all the strings, is Mickey freaking Mouse, I will take back every bad thing I have ever said about this show (ok...not really) because that is such an insanely, bizarrely awesome idea. Come on, bring on the Disney Mythos!

Edited by tennisgurl
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No. You did not mishear. She figuratively left her groom at the altar to go on a vague quest for her sister.

I love how Kristoff was so mellow about it, though! He was like "nbd, it's cool, she just went off to get icing for the wedding cake!" He just cracked me up. And I actually love that, with Anna and Elsa, the show is returning to familial love as a major theme. It's been all about romance for way, way too long--and the writers are so bad at writing romance, yet so good at writing family stuff when they really put their minds to it. I'm pretty sure half the reason the Frozenbacks were so charming for me is that they were all about family (and I double-loved that Kristoff totally got that Anna had to help Elsa--he didn't get pissy at all). Honestly, the Frozen stuff is the kind of stuff the show should be doing with Emma, Snow, and Charming (and even Henry, if they must, sigh). This just shows that they can do it...they have no excuse for not.

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BTW, did I understand correctly that Anna caught a ship and sailed away to investigate her parents death on her wedding day and no one found it odd or did I mishear the timing of the wedding?

 

That was a plot point I didn't really get. When Anna first talked about going on her quest, I assumed she meant that she'd do it after the wedding since the wedding was the next day. I don't know why she had to take off before her wedding. I know that she wants to help put her sister's mind at ease, but it wasn't exactly an emergency situation and it wasn't as if the wedding was weeks away. Plus, if she'd done it after the wedding she and Kristoff could have just gone to wherever she was going in and Else wouldn't have suspected anything because she'd just assume they were on their honeymoon.

 

 

But, it doesn't, because she caused all this, and the rest of the characters treating her with kid clothes is such bullshit!  This show is the worst at this, when it comes to giving Regina and Rumpel passes.  But, at least with Rumpel, I get the sense he knows that he is a horrible person and everyone but silly Belle, at least treats him with levels of disdain.  Regina just gets pass after pass after pass, with this group.  Ugh!  Just, ugh.

 

Ugh, this! I'm not a huge fan of Rumple, but I can tolerate him a hell of a lot more than Regina because the show doesn't try to portray him as anything less than the fuck-up he is. Rumple knows damn well he's the biggest reason that he can't find any happiness. And while the others tolerate him because he's "family" now, they don't go out of their way to hang out with him and sing his praises or bend over backwards to cheer him up when things go wrong. Hell when he "died" I think most of them barely batted an eye. 

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So putting in my two cents of the episode for what it's worth.  I'm sure it is the minority since many here hate Regina.

 

The good:

-I'm actually rather relieved they didn't try to retell the Frozen story and instead just picked up where it left off.  Probably done more for legal reasons than anything else but I took it as a sign of continuity.

-Loved how Regina and Emma's scene was done as a parallel to Anna and Elsa's scene.  (I cringe at what SQ fans will say on that though).

-THANK YOU for finally letting Rumple mourn Neal properly.  I didn't care for Neal's character at all but since he was the whole reason Rumple created the damn curse in the first place they really ought to let the guy mourn his son.

-I thought the CGI effects were very good.  The trolls and the ice monster.  At least for TV.  

-So far I like the casting of the Frozen characters.

-Robin.  I know he's going to get shit for telling Regina he loves her but he made a vow to Marian.  But I expect someone like him to say that.  He's not lived in this world and I think the EF was the sort of place where divorces were not done.  I believe it was pretty clear he is staying with Marian out of obligation (and probably for Roland too).  If he had gone the other way and said he would leave Marian for Regina he'd get shit for doing that too I imagine.  I do love OQ and not afraid to say it (here).

-I just loved Regina's costume fighting the snow monster.  Lana does wear corporate ladies apparel well.  

-I honestly did not see Regina going to find the storybook writer coming.

-oh and small detail.  I noticed Robin mentioning a bit about his own past and I hope they dive into that.  I think Robin's character needs to be built up and I'd like to find out that Robin might have been extremely dark for a time.  (Actually my dream story for him is to find out the man he thought was his own father didn't actually father him biologically, and when the secret came out he kicked his son out of his home and inheritance.  I love this idea because I think it might help explain why Robin would be so impressed at Regina's love for Henry-her adopted son.  Just an idea).

 

The Bad

-When did Rumple's hair get silver?

-I didn't notice until rewatch that Anna and Elsa go to visit the trolls on her wedding day AND while wearing her wedding dress.  And I agree with many here, couldn't this have waited until after her wedding?  Did she really need to leave her groom at the alter to go search what happened to their parents who died a decade or more before?

-Marian.  I don't hate her for hating on Regina.  I get it.  I really do.  But I was very annoyed that she thought she should ask for help from Regina after calling her a monster the last time she saw her.  I don't know.  I just thought that was poorly done.

-Actually the snow monster scene was poorly done.  The show really needs to come up with a better action form when everyone is supposed to get taken out by a bad guy.  I was watching with a friend and she said, "The guys on this show really are useless in a fight."  And what can I say?  Every time they go up against anyone they get knocked down.  Also, I love Regina but I thought it awkward the way she just randomly walked into the scene.  Why?  How? Last we saw her she was working with Sidney.  Please tell me there was some kind of cut scene of Snow finding Regina and telling her that everyone has gone to fight some snow monster.

-Not enough Snow.  

-I seriously am annoyed that Regina's family/friends just basically shrugged and let her walk home alone.  And then left her alone for hours.  I think from the missing  year it was obvious Snow was in Regina's face a lot to check on her after losing Henry so why wouldn't they do the same?  

-I don't mind Regina being tempted to go back to the dark side.  Old habits are hard to break.  But I don't want this to continue for too long.  Even if they are apparently starting down a new (possibly interesting) story arc on who wrote the book.  And while I am a Regina fan, I think it's more important she stop trying to rewrite her own story and live from this point on as a hero.

-Please tell me Micky Mouse from Fantasia isn't going to make an appearance.

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I desperately hope the next "land" they get thrown into is the Marvel universe. Regina get tossed into a land where she's like the 57th most powerful supernatural being in the world, and literally EVERYINE has a tragic backstory, so whenever she starts her poor sad Regina tears, there will be a lot of "Yeah yeah, mean mom dead boyfriend, been there done that".

 

Then Spiderman shoots her with webs, and wraps her in a cocoon. And there will be much rejoicing.

 

The more I think about Regina hunting down the books author, the more meta it gets. Adam and Eddie better watch their backs. They might be presidents of the Regina Fan Club, but they done pissed her off now...

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I HATED that Marian begged Regina to save her life from the Snow Monster, and Regina did. Not a good sign for the writing of Marian.

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I HATED that Marian begged Regina to save her life from the Snow Monster, and Regina did. Not a good sign for the writing of Marian.

What exactly was Marian supposed to do at that point though?

 

I kind of like how she said, "Okay, maybe you're not a monster" instead of "Wow! You're not a monster after all!", because there was still some apprehension in her voice. She didn't run in Regina's arms and start singing praises like most people on this show.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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This episode was pretty much a mess.  But like everyone else, and surprisingly since I wasn't hugely impressed with the animated "Frozen", the flashbacks were the most enjoyable part of this episode.  They did a good job of finding a mystery from the movie, and going with it.  I liked the angle with the parents going on a mysterious journey (though now I'm worried this mystery will evaporate when we find out the "surprise" that they were planning to go see... Rumpelstiltskin, and they had made a deal a long time ago and Elsa's powers was the "price" they paid).  It was a smart way to have Anna go off on a journey to separate the sisters and to create a mystery of what happened to her.

 

The actors for Elsa and Anna were likeable and engaging, though I wasn't a huge fan of the way the actor played Kristoff.  I was actually impressed with the CGI Troll.  The Snow monster not so much, but Grumpy did have the funniest line of the episode with "Evil Snowman... Run!!!!!!".  

 

Elsa sure took the long route walking into town since it apparently took all night.

 

The rest of the episode though, was a downright replay of every problem from 3B which we had discussed over the summer, played out AGAIN.  

 

Once again, all of Emma's time was monopolized by Regina and Hook.  There was no need for Granny to be in this episode, since we got Snow White dressed like she's going on an excursion from her retirement community.  As expected, no follow-up about Emma's conception of home, no conversation with Snow and Charming about her plans now that she decided to be in Storybrooke.  Hook's line at the end to Emma that all the crises is a reason to enjoy the quiet moments, should have come from Charming, considering that was pretty much the exact line he had in the Medusa episode, and that line was originally from Snow. 

 

Once again Regina got to defeat the Snowman and save the day.  When Emma said she felt too guilty and pushed Hook away, I actually thought that might have been about not being able to deliver with her magic, but it was never mentioned or followed up.  I actually hoping she would go and have a chat with her parents, but it was to do a door convo with Regina.

 

Once again, Regina was in deep victim mode and the audience got to hear about how things were soooo unfair for villains.  As stealinghome said above, it was such a weird dichotomy that on the one hand, Emma/Snow/Charming/Henry treated Regina like a normal person and considered her redeemed, yet on the other hand, the first thing that came into the mind of Henry, of all people, was "You don't think she'll become evil again?"  A few hours before, he had proclaimed that Regina was now a hero so she can do light magic.   Did A&E already forget that little gem they wrote for Henry?

 

Once again, we needed to hear characters explain how Regina does not equate to the Evil Queen.  The most ridiculous line was Robin to Regina, "You are like me.  I was once long ago quite different."  Stealing from the rich to give to the poor is rather "different" from massacring villages and sending children into the house of a witch to be eaten with gravy.  The whole Robin/Regina scenes felt so much like I was watching a daytime soap opera.

 

Once again, the plot was all over the place with no consistent attention to world building.  In the course of a single episode, Regina changed her plans twice.  The fact that Regina even considered going back in time and murdering Marion before Emma returned to the past showed that she did not change at all.  It was just sickening that the writers thought saving Marion from the Snow Monster somehow negated that Regina even fathomed such an immoral course of action.  Plus time travelling was suddenly so easy?  How was Regina going to enact the Time Travel spell?  She would need someone's baby, someone's heart... did the writers even remember Zelena's ingredient list?  And then, Regina got the brilliant idea that the book's author could write her a happy ending?  WTF?  That doesn't even make sense!  Yes, I had always wanted to find out the mystery of who wrote the book, but this was just stupid.  That would be really weak if the entire season hinged on something that actually made no sense.  Regina's reasoning in this episode reminded me of how she acted in the aftermath of being accused of Archie's murder in 2B.  Be scared, be very scared...

 

And finally, I actually found the Rumple/Belle stuff just as bad as Regina for once.  Robert is a good actor, but no one can make a scene work when it's meant to provide exposition for new viewers.  That long-winded explanation at the gravesite about how he switched daggers and lied to Belle?  Telling some made-up story about Baelfire we never saw?  That was an extremely clunky way to get new viewers up to speed and completely took me out of the scene, much less made me feel for the loss of his son.  Freezing Belle like that was just sick.  It reminded me of Regina mind-wiping Henry.  And then following that with the Beauty and the Beast dance almost sullied that iconic scene from the animated movie.  Ick!

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but thank goodness for "Frozen".  The episode wasn't horrible, but it demonstrated that A&E learned NOTHING from 3B.  Nothing at all.  And it makes me sad and also kinda angry, since it looks like we'll be getting 3B-quality plotlines this season.  

Edited by Camera One
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What exactly was Marian supposed to do at that point though?

Honestly, play possum might've been a good idea. She, Marian, hacked if off  and was knocked down by whichever response the Snowman gave out. Instead of standing up and remaining The Target of it's anger, maybe see if it's interested in just going deeper into the woods and leaving the town, and the Merry Men, alone?

 

 

Then at the end of the season she'll have Robin again, but then she'll trip over a coffee table and break her ankle. And because this is Regina, who can't stand to have one little thing ruin her idea of perfect happiness, she'll seek bloody vengeance against any and all coffee table makers. She'll murder a few innocents and then decide murdering present coffee table makers isn't enough and she has to go back in time and murder the first person to ever make a coffee table. But then Henry will make a tearful speech saying she's not a villain, Regina will shed a few tears, save a few people's lives, which is apparently all the writers think it takes to show a character's redemption. And then it's going to be lather, rinse, repeat all over again.

FilmTVGeek80? That (^) made me giggle. Thank you.

 

With Emma noting that if she doesn't understand what she's feeling, how can she tell Henry? I hope that he has sussed out that Hook is sweet on Emma and vice versa; he's seen how his grandparents look and act. For Henry, it translated directly to Hook and he's wondering what Emma's holding back is. Which could lead to nice scenes between the three principles in that dynamic.

 

I love Grumpy and Mr. Clark and now Walter. I cannot recall if all of the Storybrooke names for the dwarves were mentioned. Yes, having a narcoleptic Designated Driver seems ill-advised. I hope the title is rotated, except for Sleepy/Walter.

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Were Regina and Sidney even in the same studio when they were filming that scene?  Horrible editing.

 

We've had the snowman and Sven and the trolls, when will we get Olaf?

 

Anna needs to cut back on the caffeine.  Jeez.

 

I guess Regina has conveniently stowed away anybody in the hospital that they need to resurrect.

 

It's probably not a good idea to have Sleepy drive the car.

 

I thought Pinocchio wrote the book?

 

Why doesn't Regina just go back to the past to prevent Emma from coming to Storybrooke?

Edited by Rick Kitchen

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I thought Pinocchio wrote the book?

 

He added a story to it, but I'm not sure he wrote the whole book. It's an interesting thought though, since August was a writer. Huh. Not sure how the timeline would work out though. He was at that island (or at least elsewhere) when the book showed up in Mary Margaret's closet.

 

I like the idea upthread about how Regina could realize that she writes her own happy ending. I think there could be a cool message of free will as part of redemption, instead of the fate/destiny that many fairy tales have suggested. But I'm not sure how that could play out with the whole "tattooed guy is your soul-mate" thing.

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The more I think about Regina hunting down the books author, the more meta it gets. Adam and Eddie better watch their backs. They might be presidents of the Regina Fan Club, but they done pissed her off now...

Anyone else think that Kitsis & Horowitz are poking fun at a certain portion of their fanbase with this storyline? Regina being the people who yell at K&H on twitter when the story doesn't go according to their desires, and K&H being the book author?

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I went in with low expectations and was somewhat spoiled but not completely.

I liked it overall but as others have said I am so done with Regina, I'll just hum to myself during her scenes.

I am ok with the slight delay for captain swan and Emma's step back, very typical emma and not unexpected. Hook obviously wasn't too perturbed so I shouldn't be. :) I really liked Anna and Elsa, I enjoyed them a lot.

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I enjoyed most of it but what I'd give to get Regina and her whiny ass off my screen. Her character is beyond repair.

Really liked the Frozen characters.

I guess I'm easy though. Give me Emma (and Hook, Charming) and I'm pretty much a happy camper.

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What exactly was Marian supposed to do at that point though?

 

 

I donno. It made Marian look bad. A few people on twitter were calling her out on begging Regina for help after just having called her a monster. So, it felt like a contrived moment to make Regina appear the bigger person in the scenario. There are people calling Regina a hero for saving everyone's lives. I cannot look at Regina as a real character when the writers have her flip flop so much and throw other character under the bus so she can look good. 

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Hmm, all the debate about how or if they're having Regina waffling on her way down the path to "go evil" again. Like it's an incomplete, maybe not all the way process? Like everyone notes leaving Sidney locked up and forgetting about him was a bad thing to do during her "redemption". But I think only one person above noted that Regina putting Sidney back inside the mirror is ENSLAVING him. And she said she was only doing it so he could show her what she needed but then shocker, she didn't let him out after he did that.

 

So Regina, exactly, right this moment, and while she's leaning against a door feeling sorry for herself is holding Sidney as her SLAVE. Like, that's not waffling on evil. That's not "on the way to evil". It IS evil. Like honestly I can believe Regina FORGOT about people she has locked up because she just has no sense of compassion anyway, and maybe she'd release them if she remembered because she knows that'd make her look bad. But there's absolutely no question that Regina's currently keeping Sidney enslaved against his will right this very second. She knows he hated being put back in that mirror. She KNOWS she left him in there. She might as well have put shackles on him with a chain that she's got attached to her belt. I know that's how I'm gonna picture her from this point. Just imagine THAT in the corner every time Regina's crocodile tears are falling or she's curled up against a door trying to look like a lost child.

 

Since when does Regina sit against doors like that anyway? Like she'd risk one of her pants suits like that. Oh right, since Elsa did it in Frozen, so we're supposed to feel like aw, poor Regina. Even Emma's falling for it and that's my least favorite thing about this whole episode. GUILTY Emma? Seriously? Every time you feel guilty just picture a few of the people you know Regina personally killed. See if it helps. Oh and Regina's still a sadist. When she thought of how she could possibly kill Marian and get away with it she got almost as big a smile as she got in the flashback where she captured Marian and ordered her death. Yeah, nothing like the thought of someone's head on a spike to brighten your day, huh Regina?

 

Oh, meanwhile, when Rumpel's not giving cheesy, let me mention the plot points the "Storybrooke is Frozen Over" special missed, Rumpel's breaking in his first day with his new bride with some domestic abuse. Let's just freeze Belle whenever right? I mean that's not at all unlike knocking your wife unconscious when her presence isn't convenient for you. Her own free will to be in charge of when her body is moving and when it's not? Pfft, forget that. Also, apparently Rumpel also is not expecting Belle to just spontaneously hug him huh? "What's this weird thing in your jacket, Rumpel?" Oh right, if she leans in, he'll just freeze her again.

 

Marian was awesome for the first 10 seconds. "What's wrong with you people? Did you let her near my son?" But it was all downhill from that. A  person as strongly convicted to her thoughts on Regina as Marian shouldn't have asked her for help. She should have seen her and thought oh no, Regina's gonna kill me before the snow monster does or she's gonna let it have me. Her shock upon being rescued would have been so much better, having never expected her help.

 

Elsa's awesome. Georgina Haig is awesome. in every single way possible. In every way that I knew she would be since I knew her from Fringe. Love, love, love her. ANd her interaction with Anna/Elizabeth Lail was awesome. So was Sven. The dead-on copying of the CGI animation from the movie for the trolls and snow monster. Kristoff's demeanor didn't match up for me at all. He was more earnest and more bumbling really in the movie.  So he was my only disappointment from the Frozen half. I like Elsa's wariness of him though. Well and that no one has gotten to see or talk to Elsa yet in Storybrooke. I want that. (I LOVE the preview of her upcoming actions though.)

 

I knew that every single moment they spent on Frozen would be a second less to be spent feeling sorry for Regina. So more Frozen please, less Regina. And get Emma off this feel sorry for Regina kick FAST, show before Roland's the ONLY character left that I like.

 

Speaking of, when the snow monster was attacking in the forest, where WAS Roland? 

Edited by Aliasscape
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So maybe it's because it's my birthday and I'm in a good mood, but this episode wasn't as horrible as I thought it would be. The Frozen parts were mostly entertaining although I could have done with less Anna/Elsa and more Charmings. I get that Ginny was less than 6 weeks from having her baby when this was filmed, so I understand that availability was limited, but seriously, couldn't we have at least gotten some more David (preferably without the wig)? 

 

I was also seriously annoyed that Emma was sidelined again and I dislike that she feels responsible for Regina's happiness. That's entirely up to Regina. Although bonus points for her twice telling Regina that just automatically assuming her happy ending was gone was dumb and that she needed to fight for it. Hasn't this show told us time and again that happy endings aren't always what we think they are?

 

I felt really bad for Hook. He was so smiley and happy when Emma invited him home to check out Netflix and next thing you know, she's pulling away and running off to do whatever that was with Regina. The guy hasn't gotten laid for thirty years, Emma. Patience is not going to be his strong suit. And good for him for calling her out on whatever it is that's really bothering her is not about Regina. I wonder if he thinks it's about him and his not so nice past?

 

Does anyone wonder who has been feeding and taking care of Sidney for the last year? And why hasn't that person reported this guy stuck in the basement to someone? I'm not at all surprised that Regina forgot about Sidney, but forcing him back into the mirror was very sick and not at all cool with me. At this point, Regina can claim all she wants that she's not the same person she was, but her current persona is pretty messed up to imprison him like that. I also had to laugh at the idea that she now blames the book for all of her problems. The book! Self awareness has left the building.

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