S01.E08: Both Sides Now

[Athena]

Frank searches for his missing wife; a life-changing opportunity arises for Claire as she attempts to come to terms with her marriage to Jamie.

 

No book talk please.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbGIdZXR_uk

[Petunia846]

There's another promo they're showing on the Starz channel I'm watching right now that has different clips. I can't find it online yet, not even on their website. Keep an eye out, it's a good one.

[romantique]

Of course I cannot help but think of the song when seeing this episode title, but of course Joni Mitchell and Judy Collins sang this song many years in the future of the show!

[Nidratime]

I thought of that Joni Mitchell song too. It's true. None of the characters would know it but everyone behind the camera would.

[WaltersHair]

Instant Joni Mitchell inside my head. And now she just won't shut up!

[mybabyaidan]

There's another promo they're showing on the Starz channel I'm watching right now that has different clips. I can't find it online yet, not even on their website. Keep an eye out, it's a good one.

 

This one?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7K_Wi0sFho

[Petunia846]

That video is down now.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

New promo:

 

And larger version of the preview in the original post of this thread:

[Petunia846]

There, that's the one! It's so much more exciting than the other one. I'm psyched.

[mybabyaidan]

Whoops, sorry!

 

I was so excited when I found it I didn't look to see who uploaded it.

[Nidratime]

They tweeted a clip from the next episode. Obviously, if you are trying to remain unspoiled, I wouldn't watch it.

 

http://outlandertvnews.com/2014/09/clip-from-outlander-episode-108-both-sides-now/

[taanja]

Thanks for the warning Nidratime. I almost clicked on the link. I find I enjoy the show so much more when I have no clue what to expect! I took a chance by coming to this thread! whew!

[Keeta]

Another clip from the upcoming episode: 

 

(You guys, the way he says "my bride"... *dies*)

[Tif]

New sneak peek

 

https://tvline.com/2014/09/26/outlander-season-1-video-claire-angus-fighting-lesson/

[Nidratime]

Another clip for the episode was released. Obviously, if you don't want to be spoiled for tomorrow night's episode, you won't want to watch it.

 

http://outlandertvnews.com/2014/09/third-clip-from-outlander-episode-108-both-sides-now/

[WatchrTina]

Oh My God!  I KNEW IT.  I just knew that was how it was going to end.

 

Sooooo gooood.

Edited September 28, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Tif]

I knew that's where it was going to end too.

Tooooo much Frank. Oh how I loved wee Roger and Hugh Munro.

[annlaw78]

Way too much Frank "Pee Break" Randall.  I could have gotten his torment at the Stones without having to see half a dozen other scenes dedicated to his moping around.  

 

April 4th.  Geez.  

[redsox7819]

That was great. Even though I knew it would end in a cliffhanger and have read the books waiting to April sucks!  Now I am trying to remember the fine details of the book at this point.

Edited September 28, 2014 by redsox7819

[WaltersHair]

Ha! I got my scene of BJR reacting to news of their marriage. April is a hella long time to wait for the series to continue.

 

Poor Frank

[Nidratime]

They should've called that episode, "Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch!"

[SanLynn]

I know a lot of people don't give a fig about Frank but my heart broke for him this episode... And I suspect that's the last we'll see of him. At least for a long while. I thought showing his side of the story was necessary but I wonder if I might be in the minority on that.

 

And, again, juxtaposing Frank with BJR in the same episode really showcases Tobias Menzies. He is so freaking talented.

 

Everyone stepped up their game this episode. The acting was fantastic all around. Catriona, especially in the aftermath of the attack on her and Jamie was wonderful.

 

And that scene with Claire and Frank at Craigh na Dun together but not really together? Oh my God. That was so intense.

 

I knew as well that would be our cliffhanger. Sure won't make the next 6 months of waiting any easier! Great way to sign off for now though!

[Petunia846]

Roooooooger!

 

I loved almost all of that. Just would have preferred more of the Reverend and Ms. Graham over the useless detectives and the lying woman, but whatever.

[Tif]

The scene with Frank and Claire at the stones was fantastic and I felt Frank's grief. But I didn't need the 15 minutes worth of scenes with him in the beginning.

Jamie in the window. My heart was going to burst and I knew what was coming.

[annlaw78]

Was Claire raped by the deserter before she shanked him?  I couldn't tell if she was in shock due to having killed her attacker, being assaulted herself, or both  

[absnow54]

I don't mind that they did the 1940's bits. I just wish it weren't so choppily interlaced with the Highlands. Every scene seemed to cut away a few beats too soon, and it sort of messed with the pacing. I guess they were trying to play it off as "Claire's life is here now and it's all business as usual for her now." But the almost rape scene especially, the tone and the heaviness of that scene was sort of lost to me because of the abrupt shift to the 1940's in between.

 

This was a really horrifying episode for Claire though. I was cheering for her to get to the stones to elude all those rapists around every corner. *shudder*

Edited September 28, 2014 by absnow54

[Nidratime]

Jamie in the window. My heart was going to burst and I knew what was coming.

 

 

That reminded me of a 1940's movie! I expected to see Errol Flynn or Tyrone Powers in that window. Very cool.

 

And Black Jack Randall looked ecstatic to discover he had Jamie's wife in his clutches.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Nidratime

[romantique]

I too felt bad for Frank and was glad he was more than capable of handling himself with the scammers - something of his ancestor in him.

It was different to see Claire so vulnerable, but understandably so: to go from one horrible situation to an even more dangerous one with knowledge of who would be her tormentor. Despite this, she showed nerves of steel, especially when lying to BJR about the Duke.

I am glad the episode did end with Jamie intervening. I was worried it was going to end with Claire in BJR's clutches with no hope in sight. April is too far away!!!!!

[bluebonnet]

Hmm.  Something felt off about the episode for me.  Maybe the pacing?  It felt like they were trying to shoehorn too many things.  I think we already had enough commonalities shown to us with Frank and Jack and didn't need this extra one.  I mean, Claire already discussed how Frank wouldn't talk about stuff he did in the war and his war job was enough to let us know that there was some darkness there.  It felt like retreading.  I also wasn't impressed with the editing on the flashFrankback on the stuff about the Duke of Sandringham.  It felt like they were including a "previously, on Outlander" smack in the middle of the episode rather than a smooth transition to a callback Claire has.  

 

I did really like their near meeting at the stones.  It was chilling.  I have to grudgingly admit that the build up of the rest of the Frank stuff made that scene worth it.  

 

Two sexual assaults in one episode seemed a bit much.  They first was really well done- camera work, acting, everything.  I felt Claire's shock at killing a person.  The next one with BJR just came too soon.  There weren't enough minutes between each assault.   

 

Pacing issues aside, I still enjoyed the episode.  And omg, wee Roger!!!!!

[redsox7819]

I agree with all of you, Roger was so cute.

[dustoffmom]

Add me to the viewers who shouted with delight when that young man walked into the scene carrying the plate of biscuits!  And I especially loved that they made a point of saying his full name....wee Roger Wakefield....

although those of us who 'know' already knew who it was.

 I hid that "just in case", no wish to incur Athena's mighty pen.  LOL  Overall while some of my favorite scenes were well done I did not enjoy the amount of filler time they devoted to back story/forward story with Frank et al. I fear they are going to totally convice non-book readers that Frank is the one true love and leaving Jaime an unknown character sort of missing a good part of his story/attraction. 

[Nidratime]

Why would the authorities think that Claire had run off without any of her belongings? She just drove up to Craig na Dun wearing a lightweight dress and a shawl and nothing else. No identification, no suitcase, no nothing.

 

I fear they are going to totally convice non-book readers that Frank is the one true love and leaving Jaime an unknown character sort of missing a good part of his story/attraction.

 

 

Except Claire is not spending anytime with Frank anymore. They have flashbacks but all the action -- so to speak -- is with Jamie.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Nidratime

[absnow54]

Why would the authorities think that Claire had run off without any of her belongings? She just drove up to Craig na Dun wearing a lightweight dress and a shawl and nothing else. No identification, no suitcase, no nothing.

Where they were alleging she was going, she wouldn't need clothes. ;-)

[dustoffmom]

Yes, but it seems to me it is being shown that she is not spending time with Frank...not through any choice of her own and with her endless mental moaning about him it appears that she is having no real conflict between her feelings for the two.  I don't know really as I have read all the books multiple times now but just trying to see it through the eyes of a nonbook reader.  Thus far it appears to be all Frank all the time?

[Bort]

Well, now the episode title makes sense.

I was also feeling like there was too much Frank but yes, it made the near-miss for him and Claire at Craigh na Dun that much more poignant.

Poor Claire had a rough day. I loved that she managed to unnerve BJR with her "cover story," even if it was sadly fleeting.

[Insomnia]

I'm okay with April 4th, since my birthday is on the 7th.

 

And that's the only reason.

[ihartcoffee]

Well, now the episode title makes sense.

I was also feeling like there was too much Frank but yes, it made the near-miss for him and Claire at Craigh na Dun that much more poignant.

Poor Claire had a rough day. I loved that she managed to unnerve BJR with her "cover story," even if it was sadly fleeting.

I had a God laugh when he choked on that wine.

I think I may go through a depression, half a year??! Ugh

[dustoffmom]

Well Insomnia, my birthday is January 04 and I would have been much happier with that myself!  :)

[magdalene]

Hmm. This episode made me feel guilty that I was so into Claire with Jamie at their wedding and wedding night. It is all so awful for Frank - the uncertainty and the not knowing. And quite frankly  while Jamie is a hottie and a sweetheart and their sexual chemistry is fantastic they don't have the history she and Frank have, and there are significant things Jamie does not know about Claire. So I don't really see objectively why she should stay with Jamie. Plus, horrible things keep happening to Claire in the past.

[CrystalKethan]

See ya in April! READ THE BOOKS MATT!! Don't miss out on Diana Gabaldon's lovely, character driven novels.

Edited September 28, 2014 by SilverStormm
Book Talk removed.

[Sharkatefonz]

Now that is how you break away during the season. I felt the urgency and was happy with the way they built up to Claire and Frank at the stones. And I'm extremely curious as to how the show decides to continue (as far as the Frank character is concerned).

I feel like I can picture the opening scene already, but at the same time I expect to be completely surprised by how they execute it. The sign of a brilliant show indeed!

Congrats and many thanks to all with Outlander for an amazing first half ;-)

[jah1986]

Great episode but had to watch through my fingers a couple times.  Two rapes in one episode? Too much.  Claire was trying to be smart with BJR and almost made it. I couldn't blame her for screaming, it couldn't hurt and it maybe helped Jaime know which room to go to.

As much as I love Claire and Jaime, my heart was pounding when she almost made it to the rock and Frank and he could hear her. I so wanted her to make it but knew that would be the end of the show not a mid season finale. Still, felt for both of them.

Loved the scene where they were robbed and everyone knew something was up and Rupert just kept telling his story and everyone got in position. And Ned so proud of his shooting.

Is it April yet?

[maraleia]

Just to be clear Claire wasn't raped by either the deserter or BJR. The director confirmed this in a Hollywood Reporter interview about the episode.

I am still enamored with this show and can't wait until April. Nice work cast, crew and production staff.

[WatchrTina]

 

Why would the authorities think that Claire had run off without any of her belongings?

Because they didn't find her and they'd rather believe that than admit they failed. Wankers.

 

I freakin LOVED this episode.  Yes it was a really shitty day for Claire but OMG the writers and Bear McCreary went to town on this one.

 

THE GOOD

Jamie in the f#@kin window!  How heroic was that!

Hugh Munroe -- well cast and well played.

Seeing Frank get medieval on that dude in the alley and the conversation with the Reverend that followed.

All of the highlanders (especially Angus) pitching in to teach Claire to defend herself.

The way all the MacKenzies realized the Grants were out there and repositioned themselves for the attack while keeping up the pretense of story time around the fire -- such clever boys.

The laughter after the Grant attack.

The look on Frank's face when Mrs. Graham told her story -- such dashed hopes and resignation.

The way Claire could hear Frank clearly but on Frank's side Claire's cry was blended with that of a bird.  Did he hear or or did he not?

The camera swooping from "both sides" of the stones (and the color grading changing to match).

Jamie-and-Claire canoodling (before all hell broke loose, with the Grants)

Jamie-and-Claire sexytimes -- complete with Jamie feeling like a god (what "King of Men" isn't enough for ye?) before, you know, all hell breaks loose again.

Claire pretending to be a spy and playing the Duke of Sandringham card.  You have to give her an A for effort.

The line "All we MacKenzies are loyal to the king."  Note -- I'm betting she told him her married name was MacKenzie.  It's clear he has no idea who she married until the final scene.

Corporal Hawkins again!  Poor Schmuck.  He's going to be scarred for life by this posting.  At least this time he apologized to her.

And last but not least . . . Claire's suitcase.  Seriously that thing was gorgeous.  So sad to see Frank leave it behind.

 

THE BAD

The first assault on Claire -- was that rape or just attempted rape?  That lack of clarity in the narrative is a problem and I'm kind of dreading the discussion that may erupt.  For my part I assume it was only attempted rape -- that his cock did not "break the plane of the goal line" as it were.  I say this because I think Claire wouldn't say "I was angry and I didn't know why" if she'd just been raped.

 

THE UGLY

The redcoat's assault on Claire, BJR's assault on Claire, and the look of surprised sadistic delight on BJR's face when he sees Jamie.  Brrrrrrr.

Edited September 28, 2014 by WatchrTina

[nara]

Another excellent episode!  The Emmys are a long time from now, but I’m anticipating Golden Globes nominations…
 
• My feeling of dread began at the warning at the beginning of the episode, when it was clear that there would be a rape scene, and didn’t lift until the end of the episode.  This episode holds the record for the number of times I yelled at the television screen!
 
• I really enjoyed seeing Frank’s side of things.  I know that others thought there was too much of Frank, but I loved it seeing that he had not forgotten his wife.  It was a good follow-up to wedding night between Claire and Jamie  and a reminder that Jamie is not the only man who loves her.  I did think it was perhaps foolish to antagonize the policemen whom he wants to look into Claire’s disappearance.  I liked the false lead that the woman provided, but I was a little skeptical that an army intelligence officer would be so easily duped.  The idea that he might go to a dark alley with £1500 was driving me nuts. However, Frank proved himself in the fight scene.  I was literally yelling encouragement to Frank as he beat up those bad guys!  It was great to see him as a man of action, and not just a scholar.  I couldn’t quite see the weapon he was using.  Could anyone tell what it was?
 
• Like everyone else, I adore Roger Wakefield.  He is such a cutie.  Between him and Hamish, my maternal instincts are well satisfied.  Am I the only one who hopes he ends up being a descendent of Claire and Jamie?
 
• I liked that the Reverend’s housekeep told Frank about Craig Na Dun, but I was hoping that she would also tell him about Claire’s hand and the curious love line and life line.  Frank has her hand memorized and that would mean something to him.  It would give some credibility to what she said.
 
• I enjoyed the character Hugh and I hope he reappears—he’s too interesting to be a throwaway character.  I thought the dragonfly in amber was gorgeous and the color of it was marvelous against that faded colors of the background and their clothes. 
 
• In the attack scene, I really liked how Rupert continued his story without missing a beat as the men prepared for the fight.  They did not give away the fact that they knew there were thieves until they were ready to go after them.  There’s a good lesson there… I was laughing so hard at how pleased Ned was with himself.  And I’m glad that someone finally thought about teaching Claire to defend herself.  Angus proved himself very knowledgeable and a good teacher.  We also got the pleasure of hearing what was perhaps the world’s first “That’s what she said” joke, courtesy of Rupert.  Somewhere, Michael Scott is happy!
 
• The rape scene was difficult to watch, but very well done.  I felt so terrible for Claire going through that terror.  Claire’s anger and shock were very well acted by Caitriona and Sam did a great job too, with his shaky voice.  I kept yelling at the screen for someone to cover her with a blanket and give her some alcohol.  I also felt so bad for Jamie for once again being unable to defend a woman he loved.  The fact that Claire later reminded him that she had to defend herself absolutely broke my heart.  I had been enjoying how happy they were with each other and their easy affection, and I hope that this doesn’t create a real rift between them.  The fact that he made her promise she would be there when he returned was very telling.  It showed that he realized that he had lost her (at least partially) and there was a good chance she would leave him.  And we saw that she made her choice that she wanted to be Claire Randall and not Claire Fraser when she ran towards Craig Na Dun, though I wonder if that would have been her choice if the rape had not happened.  I thought that Dougal’s comment about what becomes of people who break oaths to king and country was very interesting—although he wants Charles Stuart on the throne and is willing to fight the British, he clearly still respects the authority of kings and the importance of oaths and loyalty.
 
• Frank and Claire almost reaching each other was powerful.  I thought it was a great juxtaposition of the two different timelines.  Although I like her better with Jamie, I was really happy that she heard Frank calling her name through the stones.  I thought for sure that the episode would end with reaching towards the rocks, so I was pleasantly surprised when it continued for a while longer, but frustrated when she was stopped just short of touching the stones. 
 
• BJR continues to horrify me, but I do like the fact that he finally mentioned the elephant in the room—the fact that Claire is wearing her gold wedding ring.  It’s about time someone mentioned that fact!  Why on earth does Claire think she can outsmart him?  I knew the moment he mentioned the Duke’s wife that she was toast.  AAARRRGH!  Why couldn’t she have pretended that she got her orders from the Duke (who she knew existed) regardless of whether they really came from his wife (who, as it turns out, didn’t exist). The moment when Jamie arrived at the window and BJR’s glee at seeing whose wife he had was just awesome.  I’m hoping that BJR’s orders to the corporal to not come back regardless of what he hears will work against BJR when Jamie (I hope) kicks his butt in episode 9.  Looking forward to the return on April 4!

[absnow54]

And we saw that she made her choice that she wanted to be Claire Randall and not Claire Fraser when she ran towards Craig Na Dun, though I wonder if that would have been her choice if the rape had not happened.

Claire and Jamie have only been married 2 days, betrothed a day before that, and were friends for 6 weeks. I know we're far more familiar with Jamie and Claire's relationship than we are with Frank and Claire's, but I don't think there's much competition as of yet.

[Glaze Crazy]

Wow, one more step and Claire could have flown into Frank's arms, left all that violent rapey stuff behind and a great big "THE END" could have been run on the screen.  No waiting for April! ;-)

 

Such a good episode.  I liked all the Frank story.  I like that he's being shown as completely devastated by the loss of his wife and the unknown reasons.  I was so sad for him.  I like the bit from Mrs. Graham about the folklore of the stones that mirrors Gwyllyn's song.   And that Reverend Wakefield knows about the legends and that people believe it too.  Of course, after she tells Frank all this she still has no solution except that many folks do return.  How she *knows* that is another question I hope the show answers at some point.

 

I absolutely loved the side by side scenes at the stones with Claire and Frank.  She seemed to hear him, but it looked to me like he only thought he heard her and might have been using logic to convince himself he was imagining it, since he went ahead and left after all.  Again, very sad for that concept of having just missed each other.

 

Claire is showing some serious conflict.  She's allowed herself to get wrapped up in Jamie after a couple of days, while forgetting her plan to get the heck out of the 18th century.  With the deserters being able to get the drop on them, he's already let her down on the "protection of my body" promise.   I really like that I am kind of mad at her sometimes wishy-washy actions, while appreciating that she's still pretty quick on her feet with the banter between her and BJR.  Too bad he caught her out on her lie.

 

Loved the knife wielding lesson and that Angus was the instructor. 

 

Once again, I think Tobias Menzies got the real meat of this episode.  The differences between Frank and BJR and the similarities really showed off his ability to bring both of these characters to life in many layers.

 

This was a very action filled episode and a nice bookend for the first half of the season.  Good place to leave it and everyone in that room at Ft. William is in a tight spot of some sort.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Glaze Crazy

[nara]

Claire and Jamie have only been married 2 days, betrothed a day before that, and were friends for 6 weeks. I know we're far more familiar with Jamie and Claire's relationship than we are with Frank and Claire's, but I don't think there's much competition as of yet.

True, but after all the sex, I needed a reminder of that fact!

[JodhaBai]

 

and with her endless mental moaning about him it appears that she is having no real conflict between her feelings for the two.

 

I get what you're saying.   She chose Frank in this episode.  I would like to see more of Claire's feelings for Jamie.    I guess they are still evolving.