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The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

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Was her pregnancy a WTD? I forget. No, right? I like to think Jax just remembered to use some damn protection.

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I think Sam's pregnancy with Baby Girl McCall was a WTD, at least in the early stages.  They must have known towards the end it was Sonny's because that came into play with sick Kristina.

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There was at least a brief WTD on that one, if I remember correctly, because of the night she slept with both of them.  I think Jax believed (or wanted to believe) that he was the father for a brief time, until the paternity test (which Jason or Sonny messed with, I think, to show neither man was the father so that Sam could believably claim Jason as the dad).  I may be a little fuzzy on the details, but it was something along those lines. 

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Yes, it was a WTD, Jason changed the paternity test to read that neither was the father so he could claim the kid. Carly told Jason if the baby was Sonny's, she'd leave him and take the kids. Sam, Sonny, and Jason knew the truth shortly after the test, and everyone else found out a few months later.

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Hey, he got to bang Sam first! :)

 

Ooh, that's right! But then lost her to Sonny, because Sonny ruins everything. :/

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Jason: I guess the people you love are the reason you're alive.

Robin: I love you, too.

Jason: I can feel it.

Robin: Are you happy?

Jason: Not when I think about never being with you. Other times, yeah.

Robin: Good. Because I want you to be happy.

....

My young self ate this up so much, y'all.

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Is this the place where I can bemoan the great romance that never got the chance?  ...  But seriously writers, did you not see the spark the first time Carly saw her first baby daddy on the docks?  Did you not see the Alan/Monica redux potential in all the times they interacted?  Did you not see how hot they were together with their hate sex?  And the number of places they could have hate-sexed around PC?  Did you not see the history they have together and the growth potential they had together?

 

Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

 

I like LW and I can enjoy her Carly but she's not great at generating chemistry with love interests. The fact that she and SK had instant crackling chemistry and the benefit of Carly/AJ's soapy history was completely unexpected.  The fact that all of that potential was completely wasted so TIIC could pursue the tepid chem generated by RH/LW in a futile attempt to recreate the infinitely superior  Blair/Todd dynamic? One of the most inexplicable, wasteful, painful writing decisions that I've seen on this show

Edited by Oracle42
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I don't think I was watching GV's Lucky and Maxie when they were together, but IIRC, there were some scenes with JJ's Lucky and Maxie that I liked.  Might have been the pill staring contest s/l.  Something about a lamp, I can't remember.  But for a hot minute it looked like they were testing them. I liked it. 

 

 

I didn't really enjoy GV's Lucky with Maxie but YES! to the lamp scenes with JJ's Lucky and Maxie. I thought they had so much potential and watching this boring relationship with sweet, dim-witted Nathan makes me wish that the Lucky/Maxie pairing had been pursued.

 

Edited by Oracle42
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JnR, man. Will always love them. And Ron hasn't ruined them, so yay!

...

Jason: My dreams are different from yours, but if I never saw you again, you'd still be the most important thing in my life.

Robin: You dream?

Jason: Yeah. Now. About you. Living for years, being a doctor. Sometimes I dream about us going to Switzerland.

Robin: And I would go, believe me. I want to be in your future, Jason.

Jason: You will. No matter what. Because we're a part of each other.

Robin: Always.

Jason: Always.

Edited by HeatLifer
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Today's episode was trash. The worst was seeing stalker nurse and Jakeson acting all stupid and nauseating. Barf. STFU.

--------

I can't even take it seriously. Ron has the inability to write a captivating love story. It's all fake and for shock value. Jake/Liz. Ric/Liz. Nik/Liz. Sam/Patrick. Maxie/Fill-In-The-Blank. Morgan/Kiki. Michael/Sabrina/Rosalie.

Where is the real fucking relationship!?

And please no one say Dante/Lulu. They barely speak.

 

Wellll I think they have a real relationship. And I don't think they're fake or there for shock value (not that they're there for anything really, like you said they barely speak). At this point though, I don't think they have a captivating love story. I don't know if anyone can be captivating after the newness of a relationship wears off. Bear in mind I mean "captivating", and not "interesting" or "romantic". I think a couple can still be the latter two qualities many years into a relationship.

 

But I agree with you about your overall point, for the most part, Ron is not a great romance writer and he definitely can't write, at least hasn't on GH, a new romance off the ground, not one that gets you all excited, not being able to wait for them to have their first kiss. Although that's just my opinion. I know a lot of people were excited for Naxie's first kiss.

Edited by ulkis
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I know that people still have their faves and that's cool, but no relationship on this show excites me bc, to me, it's obvious Ron doesn't care about romantic relationships. Even the couples who are together, where's the realism? Where's the fire and passion and arguing and making up? And not Alexis/Julian "fire" where they fight about the same damn thing in every episode and then have sex.

I dunno. I'm in a mood about this right now.

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Oh, no, I agree with that. Like, since we named them take Dante and Lulu. After everyone thought that Dante was sulking and that's why he didn't show up on the Haunted Star you could have had him be pissed at Lulu about that, like gee thanks for drastically misjudging my entire personality. Instead he just tells Michael, "eh no big he fooled everyone."

 

Or like we've mentioned before, why not bring Patrick's hatred of Jason into play already with Sam and Patrick? (I know, because Ron doesn't actually care about Sam and Patrick, but you know what I mean.)

 

One of the main problems is there are too many freaking characters. Not that I necessarily think Ron would do the beats even if this show had a mere 20 characters, but having all these characters doesn't help.

 

I guess Sonny and Carly (surprise surprise) are getting the most nuanced couple writing right now, except even Carly is letting Sonny pass on too much where before she would have not gone along with him on a lot of this stuff.

Edited by ulkis
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I thought RC did a pretty good job with romance on OLTL. There were a few romantic duds (All of the Fords) but there were some romantic relationships that were done really, really well. He was also good at writing friendship/family scenes - I don't know what happened to that on GH

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We have had some nice family scenes in the past couple of days, I will give them that. but yes, like heatlifer said, overall romantic relationships are not very fleshed out.

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It's ridic. I can't even remember the last time a couple on this show talked about something or did something that was just about them and the relationship. There's SO much drama and evullll on the show. How do you not show someone happy? And I don't consider Sam to be happy, even though she says it to someone every other second. Because that's the problem. Saying not doing.

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I'm not really a fan o any of the couples but I've thought for awhile its ashame couples dont just go out and have fun anymore.

 

This, I think, is a problem for soaps in general, that no couple just decides to see where things go in a casual way. Like, two or three dates in and they're engaged, or at least seeing one another exclusively. On GH, where there are so many characters, no relationship gets the development it deserves, not just the romantic ones but the friendships too. As for having fun, this is also a problem. I said back on TWOP that even things like Lante getting their kid back ends up getting bogged down in unnecessary angst, that when they should have been celebrating they were worrying about the missing embryo instead. It's just stupid writing.

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I think some actors- DZ, Billy Miller, BC (surprisingly ) to name a few- are great a romance and non romance. Some aren't. It vastly affects coupling. KSt is great in romances and out. But she's constantly paired (lately) with RP who does his best work with FH and DZ in cop scenes or BA who does better with KeMo, LW, or MB in friendship scenes. But imo she kinda sparked with CD and BC in random scenes. Not exploring this like good soap writers do affects the show negatively, but Ron looks big picture, not small picture. If writers never took chances on small sparks, we'd never have had a lot of great soap couples. Which is what current GH is missing out on imo.

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Michael Easton to me is a guy thats good at playing non romantic relationships, and terrible at playing romantic ones, None of his romantic couples, on both GH and OLTL, did anything for me. He has good "bro chemistry" with his male co stars.

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But imo she kinda sparked with CD and BC in random scenes. Not exploring this like good soap writers do affects the show negatively, but Ron looks big picture, not small picture. If writers never took chances on small sparks, we'd never have had a lot of great soap couples. Which is what current GH is missing out on imo.

 

I think a story which writes itself, because CD and KSt have sparked in random scenes, is Michael and Maxie getting together this way: Maxie needs a job, Michael does lose ELQ by Nik's machinations, but somehow, don't know how, ELQ has ownership of L&B and Deception and they get to keep those 2 companies.  Instead of giving up, sadly like AJ would do, Michael and Ned decide to run the 2 smaller companies, Ned, of course, L&B, and Michael, Deception, with all the irony the title of the company entails. He knows nothing about beauty products, etc.  He decides to hire Maxie to do creative, and maybe a fashion line, out of Deception.  He hires Molly as an intern.  Brenda comes back to model for the relaunch because she was the first model.  An organic way for her to come back for a short term visit. 

 

But, Maxie and Michael, over the course of working together fall in love.  Maxie is older, is Carlyliteish, has her own daughter, which is interesting because of Avery/AJ, who I assume Michael will lose along with ELQ.  This is the story developing, he only lets go of his rage to move on and take care of himself and not fall into the trap his father AJ did.  He still really has nothing to do with his Corinthos Family, but he finds peace in rebuilding a smaller company, which makes more sense with his lack of experience and falling in love with crazy Maxie.  I love Maxie, but I hate the writing for her.  I think it would be perfect.  move on from Spinelli/Nathan, share M&M (obviously their shipper name) tragic history, she with heart transplant from cousin, losing her sister, also 2 dads, and we all know Michael's history. 

 

I could on, but this is getting long.  Isn't it perfect? 

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I think Maxie would also rally him to get ELQ back. Micheal needs a few strong people to believe in him. I can see Maxie and Micheal making Deception a success, then Maxie rallying him to get together with Tracy, Ned, and the other Q's to get ELQ back. Georgie and Dillon were a thing, so it would matter to her.

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Michael Easton to me is a guy thats good at playing non romantic relationships, and terrible at playing romantic ones, None of his romantic couples, on both GH and OLTL, did anything for me. He has good "bro chemistry" with his male co stars.

 

Nicely put.  I really liked his mentor/mentee rapport with Fish on OLTL and he was also bearable in scenes with Bo or his brother Michael.  And on GH, his best relationship was his platonic, mentor/mentee rapport with Anna.

 

Meanwhile, Silas has no friends and his relationship with Kiki is an afterthought.

Edited by TeeVee329
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I don't like seeming to advocate cheating for them, but I'm bored with this pretty, sweet, safe couple.   Even the greatest - especially the greatest - couples in the past have had separations and such separations don't always have to involve third parties.

 

You and I have had this discussion before, so I know you're referring to couples like Luke and Laura and Sonny and Brenda, and while I have enjoyed some aspects of those couples I don't really think you can compare Lante to them, totally different couples, apples and oranges. Even if Dante, or Lulu cheats, I just never want to see Dante treat Lulu, or another woman, like Sonny and Luke treat women.

 

They also did nothing during that stupidly brief time period of them thinking Ben/Rocco was just Dante's.

 

Seriously! I thought Lulu was at least gonna hold the hospital daycare hostage. instead it was just all "I'm so glad for you Dante". It reminds me of Patrick's attitude with Sam now. "I'm so glad you can still cherish your hitman husband, Sam."

 

Meh ... I like that Dante isn't a cheater, but I also like messy, complicated stories.  I live in a world of shades of gray and I like my entertainment favorites to be the same way.

 

Well, yes, that's why I said I liked "the fantasy". :) I do recognize it might be a little too saccharine for people.

 

To be honest - and I know you probably didn't mean this - it hits on a bit of a sore spot for me when I say, "I don't want so-and-so to do this bad thing" and someone replies to me that the world is shades of grey, etc etc. I agree, I don't think everything should be perfect or that characters shouldn't have any flaws, even the best ones. that's not what I'm disputing. My favorite novel is Les Miserables, and I've watched every adaptation out there, and when I come across a film that does not have (spoiler alert I suppose) Jean Valjean dying at the end, I feel like throwing rocks. And the character of Jean Valjean himself is a good example actually - he is a very good character, but he's not perfect. (Don't ever read the novel if you want to just straight out enjoy "Bring Him Home" ever again, heh. In the musical, he accepts this man as his surrogate son pretty much immediately. In the novel, he's happy at the thought that Marius might have already died in battle and so he doesn't have to do anything to get the boyfriend "out of the way".) And I get annoyed as well when they smooth his flaws out in a movie adaptation.

 

Yes, people are messy, but there are also some decent people. And fiction is so filled with assholes, especially men, that we're expected to see as having hearts of gold, and this is true especially on GH, where our main character is violent, misogynistic, unrepentant murderer Sonny, that I think having a good character appear is actually more a representation of reality at this point than fantasy. It's like, seriously, everyone is not that big of an asshole. I mean it takes effort for some of these characters to be as big of jerks as they are, heh. Being evil is not for the lazy.

 

And people being messy is why I like the character of Dante, and why I don't particularly care for Nathan. DZ can bring out the conflicts that good person can feel, and the struggle they feel to do the right thing. RP can't. He's just there.

 

This quote sums it up pretty well for me:

 

"I don't see what's horrible about it, when she's doing so well," said Mrs. Lynde emphatically. "Fred Wright has a fine farm and he is a model young man."

 

"He certainly isn't the wild, dashing, wicked, young man Diana once wanted to marry," smiled Anne. "Fred is extremely good."

 

"That's just what he ought to be. Would you want Diana to marry a wicked man? Or marry one yourself?"

 

"Oh, no. I wouldn't want to marry anybody who was wicked, but I think I'd like it if he COULD be wicked and WOULDN'T. Now, Fred is HOPELESSLY good."

 

"You'll have more sense some day, I hope," said Marilla.

 

And this has turned less about Lulu/Dante and more into a rant about a general/fictional tv archetype, sorry :)

 

ETA: If he does cheat, this is the way I would do it

 

I would do it like he immediately feels guilty and he can't eat, sleep, he works all the time to get away from his guilt and he doesn't tell Lulu, partly because he is afraid and partly why should he get to unburden his conscience and get to feel better about himself? And we see him tell this to Nathan or something. Nathan blinks and nods in sympathy. Finally he collapses or something and when he wakes up Lulu is like, the doctor said the only thing wrong with you is exhaustion, you cheated on me, didn't you? or did you kill someone by accident? because what else could it be? and he admits it and says yes and then she comes with some food and says okay. you'd better eat every damn bit of this because I want my damn chance to get to ream you out for this without feeling sorry for you

and then I don't know where it would go after that. Plus if I went any further it would belong in the fic section :)

Edited by ulkis
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"I don't see what's horrible about it, when she's doing so well," said Mrs. Lynde emphatically. "Fred Wright has a fine farm and he is a model young man."

 

"He certainly isn't the wild, dashing, wicked, young man Diana once wanted to marry," smiled Anne. "Fred is extremely good."

 

"That's just what he ought to be. Would you want Diana to marry a wicked man? Or marry one yourself?"

 

"Oh, no. I wouldn't want to marry anybody who was wicked, but I think I'd like it if he COULD be wicked and WOULDN'T. Now, Fred is HOPELESSLY good."

 

"You'll have more sense some day, I hope," said Marilla.

 

[OT]ulkis, you win the internet for the day. Possibly the entire week. Anne of Green Gables is one of my favorite books.[/OT]

 

As for Dante and Lulu, although I do have my issues with his fondness for Sonny, Dante is still the only normal person in Port Charles. There's also Mac, I guess, but Mac is barely around. I like that he seems to devoted to Lulu, tiny bumps in the road aside. There ought to be some kind of happy medium between the endless sturm and drang of Maxie's relationships and the abusive dynamic of almost every relationship Sonny has ever had. If Lante isn't mega-exciting, I prefer that to the ridiculousness of every other "romance" on the show right now.

Edited by Cobalt Stargazer
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Emma: My mom told me about Alan Quartermaine. He was her friend Jason's dad. But he died.

I totally missed this line the first time today due to my Spencer hate. But awww. I'll take this off-screen Rob telling Emma about Alan and Jason. <3

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Yeah, totally different.  :-)

 

But I see both sides of the Dante/Lulu debate: Those who are sick of the clichés and wonder why one couple can't defy the odds. But the other side, I get that, too. Why should D/L get special treatment when other couples got so spectacularly destroyed because...reasons? Why should they be in a special bubble?

 

But that's the thinking these hacks have fostered.

 

I get that. I just would like to point out, that while I still like Lante, the recast still was a huge change for me and it kinda sucks to have a favorite actress recast. If this was happening two years ago when I was still bummed about Julie Berman leaving I would have been all over it. I don't know how you would feel if Kim McC was replaced, and I know recasting Julie Berman is no where near the same as recasting Kim would be, but the way Scrubs fans (of which I am one) who are opposed to a recast would feel about Scrubs post-a-recast is kind of the way I feel about Lante. So when people say Lante have been in this bubble - which they have - a part of me is kind of like, yes, but - bland recast! heh. 

 

Why should D/L get special treatment when other couples got so spectacularly destroyed because...reasons? Why should they be in a special bubble?

 

I think a good part of it was Ron not caring but I honestly think it was less about Lante and more about Dante. I'm biased obviously, but I think DZ does a really good job of selling a guy being in love. I think a lot of actors hold back just a smidge and he really hasn't, perhaps to the character's long-term detriment I suppose, when it comes to selling a romance with another woman. And his characterization. I was annoyed when Patrick slept with Lisa but I could buy him having a fear of domestication. Dante from pretty much day 1 was like, "I'd like to settle down, marry a nice girl, and have a family."

 

They do say a large percentage of cops cheat though, so maybe that could come into play somehow. Pressures of the job or something.

 

In addition to all that I actually don't think happy couples should necessarily take up a place on the canvas living in a bubble. I would send them off, lol. I thought Patrick should have gone with Robin and I think Lulu and Dante should leave to (and take Luke and Olivia with them frankly, even though I like Olivia too.) It's not about just giving characters a happy ending though - it's about keeping the characters fresh and keeping the canvas from growing too large. They can bring some of them back in 6 months or a year.

 

But I know that's a controversial opinion. 

 

ETA: I do think a lot of this "but this couple had a baby"/"but this couple had a nice wedding instead of at a restaurant"/"but this couple didnt have a triangle" thinking and comparing is only something that is really fostered online.* I do think the portion of the audience that chooses not to discuss the show on message boards go with the flow more easily but I do think they will be also be like "the heck" if in six months or so Dante and Lulu are gonna be marrying other people or something.

 

*Speaking of Lante having it too good, I have seen some fans complain that Rocco isn't really Lulu's baby and he shouldn't count and Lulu should be able to give birth on her own and it just makes me want to facepalm, a lot, for lots of reasons. One of them being are you really complaining about Lante getting a baby via surrogate?

Edited by ulkis
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What about Luke and Laura when they returned in '93? They weren't happy 100% of the time, and not only were there external problems that made them strong, and fight together and still be interesting and enjoyable (When Laura was framed for killing Damien Smith); some external problems, like Luke getting involved with Sonny, bringing violence into their home...CONFLICT.

 

Then there was Robin and Patrick finally working together to set up Lisa to trap her so they could throw her ass in jail.

 

That and these are the kind of conflicts/problems I can get around and enjoy. Not the stupidass oooh...trouble...oooh, temptation...oooh, I know! X should so cheat! and then Y can cheat too, to get back at X! No fucking thank you.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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What about Luke and Laura when they returned in '93? They weren't happy 100% of the time, and not only were there external problems that made them strong, and fight together and still be interesting and enjoyable (When Laura was framed for killing Damien Smith); some external problems, like Luke getting involved with Sonny, bringing violence into their home...CONFLICT.

 

And Geary still complains Luke and Laura were too happy then. Lord. Actors.

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ulkis, I totally get what you mean about a recast changing a couple/ship. I used to like Lante, but with JMB and DZ's chem. And I'm so eh about them with ER. It makes a difference. That's why I laugh when people talk about recasting Robin for Patrick/Sam/etc. I mean, it's cute that people have faith in JT to have chemistry with others but ... No. I've seen enough to know he fails in that department.
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oh, before I forget, I was talking about how I think couples constantly breaking up was one of the things that led to the decline of the soap genre, and Heatlifer pointed out that couples mostly are never consistly together either on primetime shows, which is true, but I think the main difference is eventually, they do end up together, mostly because the show ends. On soaps, they never do, rarely, because of the nature of the show. Off the top of my head there's Jagger and Karen and Sean and Tiffany who got sent off together. (And I know on Port Charles Karen said she and Jagger broke up and of course eventually Karen died on the show.) Which is why I don't understand why people want them back full-time myself. Your couple escaped! Why would you want them dragged back to where they will die and/or break-up, heh.

Edited by ulkis
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You almost have to be lucky as shit to get a happy ending for your couple on soaps. Most of the time it comes down to two actors coincidentally leaving at the same time. The other "happy" ending is if one half of the couple dies on the show. 'Cause then you just tell yourself that your ship would obvs be together if they were both, you know, living. LOL.

Edited by HeatLifer
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(And I know on Port Charles Karen said she and Jagger broke up and of course eventually Karen died on the show.) Which is why I don't understand why people want them back full-time myself. Your couple escaped! Why would you want them dragged back to where they will die and/or break-up, heh.

 

That was ALL Guzasshole, and I think one of the reasons he broke them up (having him cheat, cheat on her was because he wanted the character of Karen for Port Charles, but not Jagger. Either because he created a history with what'shisface, Joe? so they could get together, because clearly, there was no room for Jagger on that show and I suppose he needed/wanted a common link between the two shows? Or mebbe Sabato, Jr. wasn't available? Who the blazes knows?

 

That said, I did enjoy the first year or two of the show, how the characters would cross over--when Jason saved Robin from Tony and brought her to GH, Joe was there, and then the Nurses Ball, it was a cornucopia of a good show. At least for me. That Broadway number they did, which included Brenda, I think.

 

Whaaat? Not all the numbers were cheesy!

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I hate to take it up for Guza but I don't think he had anything to do with Port charles.I can't remeber the EP after WR but she ws the one who came up with vampires and crap.I liked PC the first few years.I never understood why Jagger wasn't brought back though they never seemed to know what to do with Karen.

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I think Julie Hanan Carruthers was the EP on Port Charles after WR. She went to AMC later on.

 

I can understand ASJ not coming back later on. He was doing Calvin Klein ads and shows like 90210 in the late 90's, wasn't he? His star was probably hot enough that he wouldn't have come back (he's campaigned to the point of desperation to come back to GH in recent years, though).

 

That said, Jagger & Karen DID come back in 1995, when Stone was diagnosed with AIDS (but strangely, not when he died). This is the first of about 5 parts:

 


 

That said, I did enjoy the first year or two of the show, how the characters would cross over--when Jason saved Robin from Tony and brought her to GH, Joe was there, and then the Nurses Ball, it was a cornucopia of a good show. At least for me. That Broadway number they did, which included Brenda, I think.

 

Whaaat? Not all the numbers were cheesy!

 

Replying in the history thread.

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Eh? Sabato, Jr. was on 90210? How come I don't remember that? I do remember Vanessa Marcil showing up near the end of the show, but not Antonio. Then again, I pretty much stopped watching after Brenda left.

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I could have picked the wrong show. I do know he had some fame later after GH, with CK ads and things like that. 

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Thanks. I was pretty sure he was on one of those shows, I just couldn't remember which. 

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I think he might have been a worse actor than Paevey from what I've seen to be honest.

 

Of course I also think he was a smidgen hotter than Paevey.

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Eh? Sabato, Jr. was on 90210? How come I don't remember that? I do remember Vanessa Marcil showing up near the end of the show, but not Antonio. Then again, I pretty much stopped watching after Brenda left.

 

That was actually my first exposure to Vanessa Marcil, as mediocre Valerie replacement Gina.

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Jason giving money for the bridge so Robin has a place to remember Stone is still one of the best things ever. Their relationship/friendship is >>>>>>>>.

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Dante and Lulu's behavior today was so completely OOC. They both look like they're being forced to work on their relationship while they look devastated that Val and Dillon are going on a date.

Also, LMAO @ Sam saying "I'm thinking about Jake" while IN BED with Patrick.

The so-called romance on this show is dead.

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Sam is ALWAYS thinking about Jake/Jason while in bed with Patrick. You'd think he'd object at some point

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