The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

[HeatLifer]

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

Remember Jason saying, "how much more is Sonny supposed to take?" lol. I forget when he said it though.

Remember when Robin always had to be the one to make the asswipe feel better? Sometimes I hate that KMc and Mo were fucking magical bc maybe the show would have stopped that shit.

[SlovakPrincess]

The scene where Brenda runs into Jax's arms after Jax and Sonny escape a burning building is comedy gold, though.  

Robin jumps on Sonny, thrilled he's ok.  And he just stands there while she hugs him, making Eeyore faces while Brenda and Jax embrace.   You can almost hear him thinking "whatever, Robin, I wish I were dead.  Ugggghhh.  Why isn't Brenda hugging meeeee?" 

Such a whiner, that Sonny.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

The scene where Brenda runs into Jax's arms after Jax and Sonny escape a burning building is comedy gold, though.  

Robin jumps on Sonny, thrilled he's ok.  And he just stands there while she hugs him, making Eeyore faces while Brenda and Jax embrace.   You can almost hear him thinking "whatever, Robin, I wish I were dead.  Ugggghhh.  Why isn't Brenda hugging meeeee?" 

Such a whiner, that Sonny.

I legit crack up during that scene. Robin/Sonny OTP, y'all.

[HeatLifer]

22 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

The show always wanted it both ways with Jason/Sam, and anyone mob-related in their circle, which is why they always lost me. The criminals should never be the moral centers of a show, IMO. There's a difference between "OK, these are gray characters and they do bad things, but they're good, too" and literally trying to portray Jason as a GOOD man who deserves all happiness in the world more than anyone else. Like, no, I'm sorry.

Had to respond to myself after Carly literally said that Jason deserves happiness more than anyone else today. This running theme that Sonny/Carly/Jason/Sam "deserve happiness" is SO funny to me.

[ulkis]

16 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Had to respond to myself after Carly literally said that Jason deserves happiness more than anyone else today. This running theme that Sonny/Carly/Jason/Sam "deserve happiness" is SO funny to me.

It's Carly saying it though. She's been saying shit like that to Jason for forever. Classic hits like, "you are the best father this baby could have."

[HeatLifer]

Yeah, it's Carly. And it's Emily, Monica, Robin, Brenda, Spinelli, etc, etc. He is so freaking coddled. But, like I said, this isn't just Jason. It's all of them in the group. I will never get over when practically every character told Sam she "deserves happiness." Keep in mind that the character has legit been  in no-conflict relationships and stories for years now.

[SlovakPrincess]

LMAO at that Carly / Jason clip, when Jason goes "Michael turned out great?!  Come on!"   He knows they fucked that kid up permanently.

And I am reminded, as always, that LW is a good actress, but her Carly fucking exhausts me.  Even more than SJB's Carly exhausted me.  Carly is just looking for a conflict all. the. damn. time.   

[HeatLifer]

I'm glad the writers allowed Jason to finally wake the hell up. 'Cause it sure as hell was never going to be Carly or Sonny.

It was LW's yelling that exhausted me. With SJB, it was the crying. 

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

LMAO at that Carly / Jason clip, when Jason goes "Michael turned out great?!  Come on!"   He knows they fucked that kid up permanently.

Too bad the show has avoided that ever since. Now Michael is a paragon and the savior of the Corinthii. And so, so boring.

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Too bad the show has avoided that ever since. Now Michael is a paragon and the savior of the Corinthii. And so, so boring.

Oh, it definitely never avoided that ever since. It wasn't until Chad got cast that he became paragon Mikey.

[dubbel zout]

Exactly: That scene was when Drew Garrett was still Michael, and he was a nightmare. CD took over in 2010, and basically since then, no one has mentioned how messed up he is because the writing completely changed. 

And on a different topic, typical Carly to blame Liz for getting pregnant, as if Jason had no clue how conception worked. UGH.

[TeeVee329]

What about later when, after walking in on the "rutting like farm animals" fight at Casa Liz, Carly ran right to Jason convinced he could use this ammo to get custody of Jake.  Because Carly's never cheated on someone before. #eyeroll

[Oracle42]

Didn't Jason already know about Liz/Nik by then?

[TeeVee329]

I'm not sure, but "rutting like farm animals" is when Carly found out.

[Melgaypet]

1 hour ago, Oracle42 said:

Didn't Jason already know about Liz/Nik by then?

Yeah. I think not long before that he found her crying outside Kelly's or someplace and she confessed her sins, as is appropriate when one encounters a deity.

As always, Carly needed to take an amphitheater's worth of seats.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Melgaypet

[OnceSane]

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Didn't Jason already know about Liz/Nik by then?

Yep.  After his Carnival Walk of Pain, Jason went to the hospital to check on Jake and saw Liz & Nik kissing.  

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Yeah. I think not long before that he found her crying outside Kelly's or someplace and she confessed her sins, as is appropriate when one encounters a deity.

As always, Carly needed to take an amphitheater's worth of seats.

Liz didn't do her "Save me, Savior, for I have sinned" until after Lucky confronted Liz & Nik.

[Oracle42]

Ha! 

8 minutes ago, OnceSane said:

Yep.  After his Carnival Walk of Pain, Jason went to the hospital to check on Jake and saw Liz & Nik kissing.  

Ha! I knew I remembered that. He went and told Sam and then got annoyed when her first thought was for how hurt Lucky would be

[HeatLifer]

This speech will forever SLAY. And it still applies. HOW. HOW. And call me sappy as shit, but I miss this kind of dialogue.

Jason: I don't even know what five years feels like. All I know is it's five times as long as I've been alive. I mean, it seems like forever. It seems like...who could want more than that? Until I look at you. Until I think of you. You have to be alive, Robin. I don't. But you have to be. Because if you were to walk away from me today, I'd be all right just as long as I knew you were somewhere. Happy or upset...just somewhere. If you had somebody who had never been to Canada and never will, would they mind if it was gone? They'll say yeah. You see, 'cause it has to be there. It's how they know where north is, it's how they find themselves on the map. That's what you are for me. So if you want a sure thing, there it is. No, the medications might not work. Yeah, I might get shot, I might get arrested. You might meet somebody else. Whatever happens...whatever happens...if we're in the same room or not or the same state or whether I'm here at all...I will always love you...just that way.

[dubbel zout]

I cannot imagine Billy Miller's Jason ever being able to say that sort of thing to Robin. The dude says "I love you" through gritted teeth to the woman who's supposed to be his soul mate. (I mean Sam.)

That dialogue really shows how far the show has fallen with writing, stories, and characters.

[HeatLifer]

20 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

That dialogue really shows how far the show has fallen with writing, stories, and characters.

And relationships. Romantic or otherwise. There's not love like that anymore on this show. The all-emcompassing "I would die for you" love. A love that could last decades, that could get past break-ups and separation. 

Now we have Morgan and Kiki. We have "ILY" scenes where the characters just say...."ILY." I'm bored. I'm a romantic at heart. I want more.

[dubbel zout]

25 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

We have "ILY" scenes where the characters just say...."ILY."

And they say it three minutes after they've gotten together. How am I supposed to take it seriously?

[HeatLifer]

18 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

And they say it three minutes after they've gotten together. How am I supposed to take it seriously?

It's quick AND there's no substance AND the actors just don't care anymore like they used to. It's so many factors that create a pile of crap.

[Oracle42]

11 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

It's quick AND there's no substance AND the actors just don't care anymore like they used to. It's so many factors that create a pile of crap.

What are they supposed to care about? There's no there, there

[HeatLifer]

22 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

What are they supposed to care about? There's no there, there

Well, yeah, there's nothing to care about. That's a problem. Part of it isn't really their fault in a sense. The genre has been dying, for starters.

[dubbel zout]

It's hard to care about a relationship that's slapped together and is given no depth, or is written simply to be a spoiler for someone else (but has the characters saying ILY instantly).

I think Julian/Alexis were given a decent build (grading on a curve, as always), and WdV and NLG did care. I don't think we've had anything similar since. 

[HeatLifer]

49 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It's hard to care about a relationship that's slapped together and is given no depth, or is written simply to be a spoiler for someone else (but has the characters saying ILY instantly).

I think Julian/Alexis were given a decent build (grading on a curve, as always), and WdV and NLG did care. I don't think we've had anything similar since. 

But even with Julian/Alexis, it became more about their OTT sex scenes. And obviously that has a place and that's fine, but that just doesn't do it for me. And, actually, that type of stuff never did. I'm probably in the minority about this.

[WendyCR72]

I admit I loved the pairing. But, objectively, I do think Scrubs was one of the last pairings to get good/at least decent, fleshed-out writing, characterization, and build up before the ILYs. Maybe Jason/Sam, too. But the pairings have all been on a fast track downhill since with shitty writing, zero characterization, and absolutely no build to speak of.

Soaps forgot there is something just as important as couples: The pacing behind them.

As Agnes Nixon was quoted as saying: "Make them laugh, make them cry, make them wait."

[HeatLifer]

Does anyone else have any fave romantic type speeches? Please share! I want to be in a puddle of my own feelings.

[Oracle42]

55 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

After both Jason debacles? I don't think Patrick would have ever wanted anything to do with her personally. Not that he would walk around angry at her, but there were too many negative memories for me to believe he would be hanging out with Sam, chatting it up. I still don't even know what those two characters talked about on a daily basis. They had nothing in common but loss. And Patrick's loss was directly linked to Sam's husband.

Yeah, every time I saw them together I remembered Sam hounding him down the hallway about Jason's surgery immediately after Robin "died" trying to save Jason

I think any legitimate conversations that they had would just have underscored how ill-matched they were as a couple. I could maaaaybe buy them bonding over loss, but moving past that to a relationship with Sam as Emma's mother? No. And not because I think she's a bad mom, but because I'm pretty sure Patrick/Robin and Sam do not share the same child rearing philosophies. Of course, we never saw any conversations about that despite constant references to Danny/Patrick/Sam/Emma as a "family"

Edited September 20, 2016 by Oracle42

[WendyCR72]

I think Sam/Patrick were put together strictly because they were in the same age range and, at the time, there was no Jason or Robin, and the show's idiots in charge didn't care diddly squat about actual character history and just figured, "Hey. they're single with kids. They already know each other. Less work for us!" Especially since zero depth was ever put into this "romance".

[HeatLifer]

17 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Yeah, every time I saw them together I remembered Sam hounding him down the hallway about Jason's surgery immediately after Robin "died" trying to save Jason

I think any legitimate conversations that they had would just have underscored how ill-matched they were as a couple. I could maaaaybe buy them bonding over loss, but moving past that to a relationship with Sam as Emma's mother? No. And not because I think she's a bad mom, but because I'm pretty sure Patrick/Robin and Sam do not share the same child rearing philosophies. Of course, we never saw any conversations about that despite constant references to Danny/Patrick/Sam/Emma as a "family"

I can't even buy the loss aspect. Patrick thought Jason was a worthless mobster who didn't deserve to live. He believed he lost Robin because of him! How could Sam even BE with someone who thought that? There's a reason why the writers had to completely erase that aspect of Patrick's character, so much so that they had him tell Sam "I don't look at you and see Jason" or whatever. Like, I'm sorry, COME again? So Patrick had yeaaaaaaars of problems with Jason and Robin but sees Sam as SEPARATE from Jason? SAM? The one character who had been ALL JASON, ALL THE TIME since 2004.

And I won't even get started on their fake ass family that had zero screentime. I can't do it.

[Oracle42]

11 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Have you ever seen a storyline where a man comes back from the dead and he and his wife feel nothing for each other? For a YEAR? No connection, no pull, and even after he finds out who he is, he chooses to stay with another woman until he finds out he's been lied to. That is not a well-written love story. At all.

 

ATWT Jack/Carly and SBr's character. I don't remember how long it went on but it felt like forever. I believe JP wrote that story as well

[ulkis]

40 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

ATWT Jack/Carly and SBr's character. I don't remember how long it went on but it felt like forever. I believe JP wrote that story as well

I think that might have been Hogan. Not sure. I don't remember what happened when Jack saw Carly again, but he was holed up with Julia 2.0 (I think that was her name?), so it wasn't quite like Sam and Jason, because they had seen each other.

[Oracle42]

I thought it was still going on when she took over for Hogan - but if she had enough sense to end it on ATWT.....W.T.F? 

I'm pretty sure Jack/Carly encountered each other because I remember him getting pissy about her wanting her husband back.

I miss ATWT.  I miss having other soaps to watch when GH got boring or shitty

Edited September 21, 2016 by Oracle42

[KerleyQ]

9 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

 

ATWT Jack/Carly and SBr's character. I don't remember how long it went on but it felt like forever. I believe JP wrote that story as well

On AMC, Maria returned from the dead with amnesia, and she had zero fucks to give about Edmund (or her kids) for a while.  (Of course, to be fair, I would have focused on Aidan, too, over Edmund).  She started gradually spending some time trying to bond with her kids until she eventually regained all of her memories in a rush when her daughter fell off a boat and she dove in to save her.  

[UYI]

2 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

On AMC, Maria returned from the dead with amnesia, and she had zero fucks to give about Edmund (or her kids) for a while.  (Of course, to be fair, I would have focused on Aidan, too, over Edmund).  She started gradually spending some time trying to bond with her kids until she eventually regained all of her memories in a rush when her daughter fell off a boat and she dove in to save her.  

When Cristian came back on OLTL in 2005, he and Natalie didn't wind up together again. Not it bothers me... (Yes, it does. Jared or no.) 

[HeatLifer]

3 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

On AMC, Maria returned from the dead with amnesia, and she had zero fucks to give about Edmund (or her kids) for a while.  (Of course, to be fair, I would have focused on Aidan, too, over Edmund).  She started gradually spending some time trying to bond with her kids until she eventually regained all of her memories in a rush when her daughter fell off a boat and she dove in to save her.  

I thought the way this story was done was awful, too. I guess I just don't enjoy having couples feel no connection, especially when the show had previously tried to sell it as "soulmates." And that's related to JaSam, too. How can TPTB claim these two have some love for the ages and then have them feel nothing? Have them both not feel any ounce of familiarity? I guess I'm just a romantic, like I said. 

[UYI]

12 hours ago, ulkis said:

I think that might have been Hogan. Not sure. I don't remember what happened when Jack saw Carly again, but he was holed up with Julia 2.0 (I think that was her name?), so it wasn't quite like Sam and Jason, because they had seen each other.

It was Julia 2.0. Because giving Jack's next love interest the same name as his psycho ex-wife who raped him is SO hilarious. Except, you know, it's not.

Anyway, topic:

"I am not your PATIENT, Dr. Quartermaine, I'm your WIFE!"

[Oracle42]

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

I thought the way this story was done was awful, too. I guess I just don't enjoy having couples feel no connection, especially when the show had previously tried to sell it as "soulmates." And that's related to JaSam, too. How can TPTB claim these two have some love for the ages and then have them feel nothing? Have them both not feel any ounce of familiarity? I guess I'm just a romantic, like I said. 

I think it was badly done - on GH, AWT and AMC. I do think that KeMo tried  but there was nothing to be familiar with. - I think a large part of that was the writing and I could excuse it by saying that on AMC/ATWT the physical recognition wasn't an issue, but some of these writers had to be around when recast!Todd was introduced. They have no excuse

[HeatLifer]

58 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I think it was badly done - on GH, AWT and AMC. I do think that KeMo tried  but there was nothing to be familiar with. - I think a large part of that was the writing and I could excuse it by saying that on AMC/ATWT the physical recognition wasn't an issue, but some of these writers had to be around when recast!Todd was introduced. They have no excuse

It wasn't on the actors to TRY, though. There was nothing in the script! Remember that BM interview where he was like, "Well, Jason and Sam can't feel anything 'cause they're dating others." And I was like, THIS is what Frank/writers told them. THIS was a flat-out choice to play it as complete strangers who can't feel anything deeper. It was the wrong choice, IMO. If you want me to believe this couple has this unbreakable connection, that's not the way to go. 

Then again, and I've said this repeatedly, who knows what would have happened if JT never left. This show did not really care about JaSam or any pairing that was created before Frank arrived. We were all so certain it would end with JaSam and maybe it would have. But we never took into consideration how trashed they would be before that.

[HeatLifer]

Watching Pip kiss Franco and Liz's ass reminded me of how much I loved that she couldn't stand Scrubs. I miss the days when couples were together but other characters would treat them normally.

[peachmangosteen]

It's gonna make it really hard for them to do the whole, "Us against the world! Nobody understands us!" thing with Liz/Franco if everyone is squeeing about how perfect and amazing they are.

[dubbel zout]

Oh, I'm sure we'll still get that. Franco's persecution complex is forever.

[Melgaypet]

On 2/17/2017 at 8:20 AM, peachmangosteen said:

It's gonna make it really hard for them to do the whole, "Us against the world! Nobody understands us!" thing with Liz/Franco if everyone is squeeing about how perfect and amazing they are.

Aside from what else I find objectionable about this couple (EVERYTHING), that kind of schtick is only ever attractive in teenagers or twenty-somethings. IF THEN. The serial killer is like 50, and Becky Herbst may bathe in the blood of virgins, but Liz is in her 30's. Possibly late 30's. Come the fuck on.

[ulkis]

@TeeVee329 I'm replying here, since the conversation is no longer about spoilers really:

Quote

I'd say Michael already took his turn at this wheel when Franco was with Carly and he was dating Franco's BFF Kiki.  Let Lulu deal with Franco, it'd be a break from the baby rabies.

Or, here's a thought: instead of Laura approving (!!) of Franco, have her be actively opposed to it. Gives her a bit to chew on and gives the star-crossed lovers a bit of angst.

Quote

There also seems to be a general fear of breaking up the tentpole couples, like what's going on with Sonny and Carly.

Which is funny, because Sonny and Carly being together is a pretty new thing since Laura Wright's Carly has been on. I think there are a lot of Sonny fans, and a lot of Carly fans, but SonnyandCarly? So-so. So this reluctance to really separate Sonny and Carly is odd.

[dubbel zout]

Even when Sonny and Carly aren't a couple, they're totally in each other's lives. Putting them together doesn't change much, IMO. 

[Oracle42]

It prevents the writers from growing the characters or finding actors with whom LW/MB have romantic chemistry

[LexieLily]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Or, here's a thought: instead of Laura approving (!!) of Franco, have her be actively opposed to it. Gives her a bit to chew on and gives the star-crossed lovers a bit of angst.

She always should have been opposed to the mother of her grandsons dating the serial killer rapist that strapped her own daughter to a bomb. The least of the reasons being Laura's own history of rape and how that shaped her life.

[TeeVee329]

I just find these little mini-breakups so boring, they've done three or four of them in the last year.  It was the same when they got married, that it took four tries in the span of a month to get through it.  So tedious.

[MissL]

On 9/21/2016 at 0:30 PM, HeatLifer said:

I thought the way this story was done was awful, too. I guess I just don't enjoy having couples feel no connection, especially when the show had previously tried to sell it as "soulmates." And that's related to JaSam, too. How can TPTB claim these two have some love for the ages and then have them feel nothing? Have them both not feel any ounce of familiarity? I guess I'm just a romantic, like I said. 

Exactly!! There was more build up of the Jake Doe/elizabeth relationship then there was with Jasam. Liz helped him and spent time with him and he felt a connection to her...etc..and then when they put Jasam back together it just felt like it was because they were Jasam with no real story there.  Granted I will forever dislike Sam and resent her being portrayed as one of the perfect heroines of the show who Im supposed to root for to get everything she wants when I can't get over how she was introduced and how much she shit all over Alexis at all times in the beginning (in some ways I feel she ate my show as much as Carly did but at least I found Carly compelling once upon a time) but the Jason return was severely bungled from the get go if Jasam was supposed to be the end result.  Seemed to rely more on nostalgia for what was rather than what you were actually seeing.