The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

[HeatLifer]

Maybe if they could talk about something other than Jason, they could generate some heat. That's what I mean about Jason being front and center. He doesn't have to physically be there to dominate things.

Trust me, I'm certainly on your side here. But, at the end of the day, I don't think JT and KeMo have romantic chemistry, regardless.

[Oracle42]

I thought they had potential but I've never seen much besides friend chem - I do think the writing really let them down but I don't know whether it would've made an appreciable difference chem-wise

[dubbel zout]

I do think the writing let them down, given that Jason/Sam was clearly a placeholder relationship. If it had been given a chance to develop on its own, maybe KeMo and JT would have worked harder. 

 

Who knows at this point? It's moot, given that Jason is back and endgame.

[HeatLifer]

Eeeeee. Someone uploaded this whole clip of Jason and Robin in Paris. IT GIVES ME LIFE.

 

[ulkis]

I've never thought Sonny and Carly were a good love match. Even if they were at one point, as time goes on, the constant redux of them just gets more desperate and nonsensical. What kind of woman puts up with a man who shot her in the head, and constantly puts her kids in danger? Then again, Laura made a life with Luke, who had a known mobster bent on revenge against him. She stayed with the man who raped her and subjected her first child with that man, to a life of assumed names and living on the run. It was accepted and cheered on because of their great wub. But in it's own way, it was every bit as dysfunctional as S&C's life.

 

 

I don't think - and someone can correct me if I'm wrong cause I wasn't watching then - when Luke and Laura left the show in 1984 they gave any indication that they were going to live life on the run. That was a 90s retcon. And in the 90s Laura wasn't a fan and wanted to live that life.

 

I'm not great defender of Luke and Laura, but Luke has never called her a whore or a slut or told her she was trash or threatened to kill her. Luke has always regret the rape. I don't even remember Sonny apologizing to her for threatening her or for the way he treated her in general back in the day. To him it was just always them giving each other shit, equally.

 

But then you could say that Carly and Sonny have never been presented as overtly openly romantic as Luke and Laura, so maybe in the long run, Luke and Laura is more dysfunctional after all. 

[SlovakPrincess]

I will say the very beginning of Carly and Sonny worked for me ... because they are both dysfunctional, destructive jerks and they basically deserve each other. Which is not to say Carly deserved the demeaning way Sonny has treated her, just that they are both toxic and it was good - at first - that they removed themselves from the dating pool.

The point of that whole thing should have been Jason coming to his senses, realizing that Sonny and Carly are users and that he had allowed them to ruin the good in his life - and turning his life around. And Sonny and Carly should have destroyed each other, or at least burned through their toxic relationship quickly and moved on.

Instead, we got Jason coming back to still do their bidding. And Sonny and Carly destroying AJ. :(

[IWantCandy71]

But then you could say that Carly and Sonny have never been presented as overtly openly romantic as Luke and Laura, so maybe in the long run, Luke and Laura is more dysfunctional after all.

 

 

 

I think they are both horrendously dysfunctional. But you kind of nailed it with your observation in quotes. Luke and Laura were the ones everyone after them was compared to.

There are very few people out there voluntarily comparing their couple to Sonny and Carly's "great love". S&C are, and never have been anything but, a huge hot mess with two horrible people doing horrible things to each other.

 

If I'm going to pick a couple as an example of one to aspire to, I'd pick someone like Steve and Audrey or even Edward and Lila in their later years.

Edited September 2, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[UYI]

Sonny & Carly as a couple actually kind of fascinate me, because when you think about it, despite their status as a supercouple and the fact that they DO have fans out there, I don't think either of them would have much trouble dropping each other for someone else, and generally when you have competing supercouples in a love triangle or quad, you have a group of people who are genuinely torn about leaving one person for another. But despite their shared history together, I don't feel that's as much of an issue for S&C.

 

I mean, I can MAYBE see it being an issue for Sonny--I definitely believe that Brenda is his true love, but I also believe him seeing Carly as that too (albeit in part because he probably feels they are too dysfunctional to be with anyone else--and he wouldn't really be wrong about that). But Carly's love/obsession with Jason is so pronounced that it clouds almost any relationship she's in. Despite the years they've spent in each other's lives and the fanbase they have, it's hard to look at what she has always felt for Jason and see Sonny as anything but a substitute (the fact that Jason would NEVER go there with Carly (again, if you count how they met as some sort of "relationship") is a moot point--I don't think that it will ever truly register in her brain that they just aren't meant to be). The Tamara Braun years probably helped lessen that aspect, but LW's tenure has certainly brought it back in spades. Frankly, it's hard to think of a less romantic supercouple than these two. And again, not because of the fact that they are disgusting human beings, which is definitely true, but because for a so-called "supercouple", I don't think either of them--particularly Carly--would be too broken up to throw the other over for someone else.

 

I don't know, I just can't think of another supercouple/triangle with that kind of aspect lingering over it. It seems pretty unique to me.

Edited September 3, 2015 by UYI

[dubbel zout]

It's interesting (to me) that Sonny has never been jealous of Carly and Jason's relationship. I wonder if he realizes that Carly would drop him like a hot potato if Jason gave her even the slightest indication he's interested in a romantic relationship with her. It won't ever happen—and I really hope the new HWs don't change that—so maybe that's why there's no jealousy. But Jason is definitely at the top of Carly's list of priorities, with Sonny a clear second.

 

One reason I don't think of Sonny and Carly as a supercouple is that all of their problems have been self-created. They haven't had to unite against outside forces to get together or stay together. 

Edited September 3, 2015 by dubbel zout

[ulkis]

Oh, I think Sonny has been jealous of Jason. 

[Oracle42]

I think they're both to narcissistic to really ever love another person. That was actually the thing that fascinated me with SJB's Carly and Sonny - it felt like they were both so selfish that they forced the other person to give them what they needed and I think they really were as loving as they were capable of being after the miscarriage

[dubbel zout]

I think they're very mercenary about romantic relationships: What can this person give me? For Carly, it's power, money, and position; for Sonny, it's someone who reinforces his worldview and will fuck him whenever he's in the mood.

[HeatLifer]

Sam's pause when she said she loves Patrick was verrrrrry interesting. Show is so much more interesting when they're not beating the audience with "Look how happy we are!" The relationship quad is finally getting watchable.

[33kaitykaity]

Full disclosure, I'm Jarly all the way.  I only started watching GH because of SJB's Carly.  And I will always, always, always believe that SBu put up the walls to working with Sarah "closely" because he couldn't stand that she was a smoker.  I also believe the PTB/TIIC were always looking for a way to "connect" Sonny and Jason to capitalize on the homoeroticism going on there -- what better way than to have them both "love" and share the same woman?  And since SBu was leaving the show for a while back in 2000, bam, we get the Hate Sex! and S&C is born and off we go and we're into the 15th fucking year of the nightmare.  

 

Okay, taking tinfoil hat off now.  

Edited September 10, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[HeatLifer]

Oh, yeah. He is the reason. But SJB did leave. And then came three different Carly's. And he still didn't want that coupling to happen. So there's that.

[33kaitykaity]

I think it continued through the subsequent Carlys because the reasons Jason couldn't be with Carly even though he loved her made sense.  She could hurt him, I mean, really hurt him, and he didn't want to go through that anymore.  

[dubbel zout]

I think there's also some value in the idea that there's still something Carly desperately wants and will never have: Jason as a love interest.

[HeatLifer]

I think it continued through the subsequent Carlys because the reasons Jason couldn't be with Carly even though he loved her made sense. She could hurt him, I mean, really hurt him, and he didn't want to go through that anymore.

We part ways here, though. Because I don't think Jason was ever romantically IN LOVE with Carly.

[33kaitykaity]

We part ways here, though. Because I don't think Jason was ever romantically IN LOVE with Carly.

Because you liked him with Robin?  And I hated/detested/loathed Robin for what she did with the Michael paternity reveal, so, yeah, there's a friendly parting of ways there.  

[HeatLifer]

Because you liked him with Robin? And I hated/detested/loathed Robin for what she did with the Michael paternity reveal, so, yeah, there's a friendly parting of ways there.

I did like him with Robin (at the time; I only love their friendship now) but that's not why I think he wasn't in love with Carly.

[dubbel zout]

I don't think Jason was ever in love with Carly. He loves her as a friend only. There's never been any longing for her. 

[HeatLifer]

At the end of the day, they're BFF. Some may argue that's even stronger than whoever he was romantically involved with.

And I seriously can't wait until Carly loves Robin. It's going to be hilariously beautiful.

[33kaitykaity]

It's always been this kiss for me.  He kissed her.  He loved her.  

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[HeatLifer]

SJB was so good. Now I feel like watching old Carly stuff.

[33kaitykaity]

SJB was so good. Now I feel like watching old Carly stuff.

Yes, she was.  Oh, you'll have fun.  There's years and years and years of it, all in sequential order.  Yeah, I've gone back and watched them all.  ;)  

[HeatLifer]

Yes, she was. Oh, you'll have fun. There's years and years and years of it, all in sequential order. Yeah, I've gone back and watched them all. ;)

'90s GH is one of my favorite decades of TV like, ever. One of the best things to rewatch, for sure!

[ulkis]

I don't think Jason was ever in love with Carly. He loves her as a friend only. There's never been any longing for her. 

 

I think there was a time when he was on the brink. Like that kiss the night Lucky "died". But I don't think he ever went quiiiite all the way for the reasons he said, because she was too self-destructive. I think he could have loved her if he let himself, but he didn't. There's kind of a misogynistic taint to it, probably cause of whatever the heck Steve Burton had against the pairing.

[HeatLifer]

Let's be real, Jason loved women who didn't question him. So, yeah, it was misogynistic in a way.

[33kaitykaity]

Jason misogynist?  I don't think so.  Of the four women who carried permanent torches for Jason, the only wilting flower I see is Slizabitch, who couldn't/can't handle the realities of Jason's life.  Robin was his teacher when he first came back from the accident, but Sam and Carly never had a problem telling Jason exactly what they thought.  I don't count SWMNBN because she wasn't really around long enough to make an impression.  

 

I need to find the video of Carly/Robin's conversation about the fur coat when Carly was moving in with Jason again.  

 

ETA -- 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by 33kaitykaity

[ulkis]

Jason misogynist?  I don't think so.  Of the four women who carried permanent torches for Jason, the only wilting flower I see is Slizabitch, who couldn't/can't handle the realities of Jason's life.  Robin was his teacher when he first came back from the accident, but Sam and Carly never had a problem telling Jason exactly what they thought.  I don't count SWMNBN because she wasn't really around long enough to make an impression.  

 

I need to find the video of Carly/Robin's conversation about the fur coat when Carly was moving in with Jason again.  

 

I didn't mean that Jason was misogynist, although I certainly wouldn't say that Jason is a great respecter of women, but that Steve Burton's attitude gave the whole situation a misogynist air. Steve was always like "Jason is too crazy for Carly" and his (imo) attitude of "ugh! cooties!" kinda leaked onto the character.

[33kaitykaity]

I didn't mean that Jason was misogynist, although I certainly wouldn't say that Jason is a great respecter of women, but that Steve Burton's attitude gave the whole situation a misogynist air. Steve was always like "Jason is too crazy for Carly" and his (imo) attitude of "ugh! cooties!" kinda leaked onto the character.

I can't/won't argue the flaws of Steve Burton.  That'll lead to a whole another me.  Lol.  

[HeatLifer]

I didn't mean that Jason was misogynist, although I certainly wouldn't say that Jason is a great respecter of women, but that Steve Burton's attitude gave the whole situation a misogynist air. Steve was always like "Jason is too crazy for Carly" and his (imo) attitude of "ugh! cooties!" kinda leaked onto the character.

It was both, for me. If Sam and Carly didn't accept his way of life, they'd both be out of his life. You were either in or out with Jason.

[33kaitykaity]

It was both, for me. If Sam and Carly didn't accept his way of life, they'd both be out of his life. You were either in or out with Jason.

Not Sam.  Sam had a past, bouncing from bed to bed to bed.  Sam was a grown-up girl.  Sam could see with Jason.  She knew from the off what she was getting into.  It's why she was so strong about making Carly go the fuck away, not intruding uninvited on her home with Jason, and so on.  

 

Re-watching the clips that made me HATE Robin, boo-yah.  

[HeatLifer]

Not Sam.  Sam had a past, bouncing from bed to bed to bed.  Sam was a grown-up girl.  Sam could see with Jason.  She knew from the off what she was getting into.  It's why she was so strong about making Carly go the fuck away, not intruding uninvited on her home with Jason, and so on.  

 

Of course Sam knew. That's what I'm saying. She accepted his lifestyle and was OK with it. If she wasn't, Jason would never be with her.

[ulkis]

Honestly, I think Liz is fine with it too. She's just not fine with being fine with it, like Alexis. 

[dubbel zout]

Jason's sparkling personality and amazing penis trump his work choice.

[Tiger]

I think it continued through the subsequent Carlys because the reasons Jason couldn't be with Carly even though he loved her made sense.  She could hurt him, I mean, really hurt him, and he didn't want to go through that anymore.

Wasn't there a scene with Jasus & TB!Carly during the hotel fire where they both addressed this very fact and both basically closed the door on them ever actually being together?

[HeatLifer]

Honestly, I think Liz is fine with it too. She's just not fine with being fine with it, like Alexis.

I think Liz has this, "I don't understand my connection to Jason" party-line.

[WendyCR72]

Jason, Carly, and Sonny should have been - and should still be - daytime's first menage a trois "couple". All three are disgusting and are a contaminant to anyone else they come into contact with, and that is beside the obvious point of the two guys being career criminals. They should have their own dwelling, sort of like The Island of Misfit Toys for the criminal set.

 

And as one who used to really like Alexis before she got mixed up with Sonny and the mob, if she and Sam want to condone it, they can join the other three.

 

This show is so fucked up.

[HeatLifer]

Jason, Carly, and Sonny should have been - and should still be - daytime's first menage a trois "couple". All three are disgusting and are a contaminant to anyone else they come into contact with, and that is beside the obvious point of the two guys being career criminals. They should have their own dwelling, sort of like The Island of Misfit Toys for the criminal set.

And as one who used to really like Alexis before she got mixed up with Sonny and the mob, if she and Sam want to condone it, they can join the other three.

This show is so fucked up.

This. Like, they made me hate a BABY. Stupid Michael.

[ulkis]

Agreed.  My issue is that, if they just go right back to Jasus the Holy Hitman, then what was the point of the amnesia and all that, other than to trash Liz's character?  Even if he gets his Jason M memories back, he's still been a different person now.  I don't want to see him become a goody-goody or anything, because, yes, he's clearly comfortable with the gray areas, but he should be disillusioned to find out that he was a hired hitman, and that Sonny, Carly, and Sam were all, to varying degrees, perfectly happy with him being a cold-blooded killer.  The character should absolutely evolve somewhat out of this, or the past year has meant absolutely nothing and has been a huge waste of time.

Wait, is "The past year has meant absolutely nothing and has been a huge waste of time" already one of our t-shirts?

 

I don't think Sam was perfectly fine with Jason being a hitman, per se, I mean she was, but I think she would have been fine with whatever Jason wanted. Carly, on the other hand, I felt like she rah-rahed Jason in the mob. She did it back in 1999 for sure, I'm pretty sure she was cool with Jason taking over the mob in 2006 form Sonny (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) and I think a part of her enjoyed being somewhat involved in the business. I never got the same sense of "yeah! Jason is so hot and awesome for killing!" from Sam. More a muted "whatever Jason does is okay-by me". I don't think Jason's reaction to Sam should be "how could you be okay with me in the mob?!" but more "you crazy woman, is that what you really wanted?" 

[HeatLifer]

I think the trashing of Liz's character isn't going to have some deeper meaning if Jason remembers and decides to hate Sonny, Carly, Sam, the mob, and become a Q. Liz isn't keeping the lie out of his safety or to keep him away from his old work. She wants him to be with her romantically.

And, I say this with sadness, but Sonny, Jason and Carly are not the bad guys on this show. Jason isn't going to have some revelation that he was evil and how dare these evil people enable him to be evil.

Edited September 11, 2015 by HeatLifer

[Oracle42]

I don't think Sam was perfectly fine with Jason being a hitman, per se, I mean she was, but I think she would have been fine with whatever Jason wanted. ... I don't think Jason's reaction to Sam should be "how could you be okay with me in the mob?!" but more "you crazy woman, is that what you really wanted?"

I think Sam's criminal past is one of the reasons they worked. Sam was a criminal who was raised by a criminal so dating a criminal didn't require some personality twisting, moral compromise.

But she was just as happy to run off with Jason and do something else, somewhere else.

[HeatLifer]

On a kind of different note, in terms of the writers trying to make me believe that Sam would be torn between Jason and Patrick...

I remember a scene back in '05 where Robin asked Sam how she deals with the violence and the fact that Jason might not come home one day. Sam said, "If you live your life waiting for something bad to happen, you're not living at all," and said that Jason "lives in the moment." She liked that and accepted that way of thinking. And that hasn't changed.

If the writers took the story in a different direction, like say...after Jason was killed, Sam hated all things mob, hated Sonny, Carly, hated Jason because he put his life at risk, that would be one thing. Then the story right now essentially could be Safe Patrick Vs. Dangerous Jason.

Ron never really planned for stories and just shot shit up and hoped it would stick.

Edited September 12, 2015 by HeatLifer

[Bringonthedrama]

Carly, on the other hand, I felt like she rah-rahed Jason in the mob. She did it back in 1999 for sure, I'm pretty sure she was cool with Jason taking over the mob in 2006 form Sonny (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) and I think a part of her enjoyed being somewhat involved in the business.?" 

She did enjoy it - she even had a fantasy of running the business as Jason's partner. Carly has always wanted more power. I believe some years ago she gave an order and either said or implied she was doing it on Sonny or Jason's behalf, then Jason found out and they fought about it.

[ulkis]

She did enjoy it - she even had a fantasy of running the business as Jason's partner. Carly has always wanted more power. I believe some years ago she gave an order and either said or implied she was doing it on Sonny or Jason's behalf, then Jason found out and they fought about it.

 

Oh, that was shooting Franco and she told Shawn it was on Sonny's behalf. Olivia got shot by accident and that's when Sonny threatened to kill her if Olivia died. And then he cheated on Olivia and got back together with Carly. Love!

[GHScorpiosRule]

She did enjoy it - she even had a fantasy of running the business as Jason's partner. Carly has always wanted more power. I believe some years ago she gave an order and either said or implied she was doing it on Sonny or Jason's behalf, then Jason found out and they fought about it.

 

 

Oh, that was shooting Franco and she told Shawn it was on Sonny's behalf. Olivia got shot by accident and that's when Sonny threatened to kill her if Olivia died. And then he cheated on Olivia and got back together with Carly. Love!

 

 

No. That was when Brenda got shot in the arm, when she gave the order to shoot--Jason wasn't there, but since Robin was gone, she went full on Mob Moll.  Jason ripped her a new one when he found out what she'd done. It was when Sarah was playing her.

[Bringonthedrama]

No. That was when Brenda got shot in the arm, when she gave the order to shoot--Jason wasn't there, but since Robin was gone, she went full on Mob Moll.  Jason ripped her a new one when he found out what she'd done. It was when Sarah was playing her.

Yes, that's it! SJB's Carly gave the order and then Jason blasted her; LW's Carly had the fantasy about being Jason's partner in the Mob.

[Tiger]

Yes, that's it! SJB's Carly gave the order and then Jason blasted her; LW's Carly had the fantasy about being Jason's partner in the Mob.

And don't forget TB's Carly swinging her bat around during a meeting with the five families when Sonny was "dead" back in '02.

Why couldn't Roy have used real bullets?!?

[33kaitykaity]

Wasn't there a scene with Jasus & TB!Carly during the hotel fire where they both addressed this very fact and both basically closed the door on them ever actually being together?

If there was, I would love to see it.  I would love a link of such.  

 

I went on the Barge after Slizabitch saw TB's Carly in the panic room and didn't free her.  I didn't come back until well after LW had been cast as Carly.  I came back just because Ms.-Everyone's-Business-is-My-Business-Fucking-Bitch-Scorpio chooses to do second paternity reveal of who was John and turned into Spencer, of telling a truth, again, that wasn't hers to tell.  This all fed into my genuine and forever hatred of Robin because of her role in the Michael paternity reveal and how much that hurt everyone, including Michael.  

Edited September 13, 2015 by 33kaitykaity