Dragon's Den (Canada) - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Dragon's Den (Canada) here!

[Amarsir]

I ran into someone trying to get into the show, but a bit put off by the Season 1 episodes.  Season 1's not a strong memory for me, though I think Jennifer -> Arlene was an upgrade.  (Lawrence -> Brett I'm not sure I could say the same.)

 

It made me wonder what people think was the best season.  In terms of the Dragons, I really liked the mix in season 8.  Bruce was kind of boring when he first got there, but when David showed up and they started getting buddy-buddy I think it was just a fun group.  But how does it compare to some of the Robert years?

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

A married couple try to get a rise out of the Dragons; an entrepreneur hopes that he's got enough material; a major solution to a minor problem.

 

Also, two new dragons!

[Taeolas]

The Dragon's are back. The new guys are OK; I might be missing Kevin a bit for now, but I think I'll get over it. 

 

The Gong show section is always a fav. The non-standing standing rake LOL. I think they're all wishing Kevin was still there for the zit popper. :) And I think I might want a Hillow for travel at least. Might be better than the neck pillows.

 

As for the serious proposals, let's see...

 

Cookie trays (extendable to hamburger trays) could be a good idea. It's gotta be out there somewhere already though.  Still, Vij would get a deal in the first ep, that was a given. 

 

The energy addon, I was surprised was being as considered as it was. It might be the next RedBull, but I think the Dragon's were wise to avoid it. 

 

The Book App sounds interesting; but they pushed too hard. On Shark Tank, or with Kevin that might have worked but these Dragon's are too chummy to accept hard deals like that against one Dragon. 

 

And the Cover-gals, that's a great idea. The Dragon's Den has helped with women's products for male industries before so Covergals fits in great. The Dragon's jumped on it. She was a great presenter and made a fantastic counter offer, and nailing the 3 dragons she did was a great deal. 

[Taeolas]

I don't remember much of the first season, but I agree Arlene is a great Dragoness. I do wish they had another female Dragon to mix things up like on Shark Tank, but she's fantastic as is. 

 

I'd probably pick a middle season as a favorite, before Kevin nailed his Mr Wonderful persona. Later Kevin seasons he was too much of a characature, but even in the end he seemed more relaxed on DD than Shark Tank. 

[Pollock]

The Book App sounds interesting; but they pushed too hard. On Shark Tank, or with Kevin that might have worked but these Dragon's are too chummy to accept hard deals like that against one Dragon. 

Sounded interesting* but the guy really shot himself in the foot. I couldn't believe how insulting he was with Arlene. Even if David is well connected in the book industries, it's ludicrous to think that any of the others couldn't have interesting contacts. 

Greedy imbecile, that's what he was. 

 

* even if I hate that those internet/apps people keep treating me like an amount of datas for them to sell. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Pollock

[EverCat]

The gardening rake that works best on concrete was hilarious lol funny, as was the pillow helmet (where can I get one of those?).

[Amarsir]

Good new season, though it will be some time before the dragons are all as comfortable with each other as the previous set was.

 

Michael Wekerle rubbed me the wrong way at first, from the initial presentation of "rock star financier" through the first pitch.  I sense a risk of too much ego that could be a turnoff.  However I was impressed with his insight on the energy drink pitch, offering facts and considerations that never would have crossed my mind.  Is he going to be "the new Kevin"?  (Inasmuch as there could ever be one.)

 

The Book App sounds interesting; but they pushed too hard. On Shark Tank, or with Kevin that might have worked but these Dragon's are too chummy to accept hard deals like that against one Dragon.

 

Yeah, and I think it's a good example of a minor misstep that turns into a major faux pas.  He did have a fair point that David's royalty comes only out of the publishers he acquires, while Arlene's came from across everything.  Plus David has the clear experience with books, and he was partnering with Jim on top.  There was plenty of room to negotiate.  But he needed to put Arlene in a position of selling herself, and instead it was an attack where she needed to defend herself.

 

The app might do well, though.  I don't have a ton of books, but for the ones I do have it'd be great to have digital copies.

[Kel Varnsen]

Sounded interesting* but the guy really shot himself in the foot. I couldn't believe how insulting he was with Arlene. Even if David is well connected in the book industries, it's ludicrous to think that any of the others couldn't have interesting contacts. 

Greedy imbecile, that's what he was. 

That guy was terrible. It was weird not seeing Kevin but during that segment I totally wished he was there to tear into that guy for being a greedy little pig. I mean sure David might know more about the publishing but it is not like the publishing industry is some secret society where you need to know a handshake and a password before someone will talk to you. Arlene also had a best selling book. I am sure that if she called just about any publishing company and said she would like to set up a meeting to discuss a product that was on Dragon's Den, they would all take that meeting. Plus the fact that he went back and made her an offer that was worse than the one he started with was really weaselly.

[Kel Varnsen]

I ran into someone trying to get into the show, but a bit put off by the Season 1 episodes.  Season 1's not a strong memory for me, though I think Jennifer -> Arlene was an upgrade.  (Lawrence -> Brett I'm not sure I could say the same.)

One thing I always thought was funny about Brett, was he obviously was at least an order of magnitude richer than any of the other dragons (he is a billionaire). So he had a lot more of "do not give a crap" money to play with, and would often buy in on pitches that were crazy long shots to make him any money, just because he thought they were cool.

 

I'd probably pick a middle season as a favorite, before Kevin nailed his Mr Wonderful persona. Later Kevin seasons he was too much of a characature, but even in the end he seemed more relaxed on DD than Shark Tank. 

It always seems like the people on Dragon's Den were Kevin's legitimate friends while the people on Shark Tank are just his work friends.

[Taeolas]

That probably comes from how concentrated the Canadian Investor market is compared to the US one. Kevin (and Robert) started in Canada, and the pool of investors is a lot smaller than in the US, so they'd be seeing the same people in the same circles all the time. Plus, despite Vancouver and Montreal's aspirations, Toronto IS the Market heart of Canada, so everyone tends to orbit in TO. 

 

Down in the States, while NYC is the market heart, LA and Chicago are big enough, plus the markets are huge enough in general, that you don't get as much closeness as you do in Canada. Kevin's gone from a Big fish in a small pond to a Medium fish in an Ocean basically. While he (and Robert) know, and have probably become friends somewhat with the Sharks, they are still outsiders (even with all their successes with US companies) who play in the US-ocean and not really investors who grew up in the US markets. 

[Amarsir]

I didn't really get the first two pitches.  Maybe I wasn't playing close enough attention.

 

The nursing shirts was such a Shark Tank moment. I was sitting here thinking "there's no way they'd get away with treating Jim like that in the US."  And then there he went.

 

They were right on the restaurant guy.  He wanted a lifestyle job, and he has one. But it's not investment-worthy with him running it like that.

 

And I really felt bad for David on the gum offer.  I definitely would have gone with him. But I could tell they valued the more visible expertise of Jim and Arlene more.

[Miss Scarlet]

I feel so bad for David. He seems like the best Dragon to me, but has the hardest time making deals. I think it's because he probably has less money than the other Dragons and people see his area of expertise as only being publishing, which is irrelevant to most of the products being pitched.

 

I laugh really hard whenever Mike Wekerle starts up with his cool/wannabe rock star act. Enough with the "chopping" and weird hand motions. I also can't understand a thing he says. He needs subtitles. I still like him though. There's an extra on the CBC website where Dianne Buckner is talking about the new dragons and refers to Wekerle as sexy. Hopefully his ego doesn't get too big from all of this.

 

Is it just me or do the Dragons seem meaner this season? Like they're trying to make up for Kevin not being around?

 

Not looking forward to the male Dragons being pervy next week, as per the preview. 

[Amarsir]

I laugh really hard whenever Mike Wekerle starts up with his cool/wannabe rock star act. Enough with the "chopping" and weird hand motions. I also can't understand a thing he says. He needs subtitles. I still like him though. There's an extra on the CBC website where Dianne Buckner is talking about the new dragons and refers to Wekerle as sexy. Hopefully his ego doesn't get too big from all of this.

Lol.  He acts ridiculous, but also makes good incisive points.  So I can't dismiss him or respect him. It's weird.

 

(Speaking of which, they've done long credits for both episodes so far in order to introduce the new Dragons.  That's fine, but I hope it doesn't last too long.  4+ minutes to get to the content is way too much.)

 

Is it just me or do the Dragons seem meaner this season? Like they're trying to make up for Kevin not being around?

I didn't get that vibe yet, but I'll watch for it.  Arlene and Jim both have potential to be fierce if provoked, but I haven't seen anything this season compared to some of their past highlights.

[Pollock]

There's an extra on the CBC website where Dianne Buckner is talking about the new dragons and refers to Wekerle as sexy

He creeps me out because he reminds me of Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs.

[Miss Scarlet]

He does look like Buffalo Bull!! Ahhhh! I don't think I'll be able to un-see that whenever I look at him now.

[Amarsir]

"I spent $75k on a mini version of something every car already has. And didn't notice it has sharp edges. And completely botched the pitch by starting out with welder's glasses and cane because they have something to do with blindness."

 

And yet that's the only pitch that really stands out to me.  The others I have to think for a minute to remember what they were.

 

Gorilla Cheese: I like the name. But if their lines are that long, they should be doing more than $375k.  They should work on increasing speed of service before expanding.

 

Underwear: Crowded space. Silver in clothing is nothing new.  But it seemed well done and the concern is valid.  Could be something.

 

Parking meter app: Like Uber, this is something that could be huge but which I never need to use in the suburbs.  I like that if you get the lots, the meters will advertise themselves to customers.  

 

I don't know what I'm complaining about, really.  It was a competent, professional episode.  Just nothing too exciting or fun, which is what I was hoping for this week.

[Kel Varnsen]

"I spent $75k on a mini version of something every car already has. And didn't notice it has sharp edges. And completely botched the pitch by starting out with welder's glasses and cane because they have something to do with blindness."

 

And yet that's the only pitch that really stands out to me.  The others I have to think for a minute to remember what they were.

 

Gorilla Cheese: I like the name. But if their lines are that long, they should be doing more than $375k.  They should work on increasing speed of service before expanding.

After watching that visor thing, I have never wanted to have Kevin back more than during that pitch. That thing was terrible, and I can only imagine how awesome Kevin would have ripped into him. 

 

The foodtruck was interesting. How the hell can you have 2 hour lines though? Who is going to go anywhere for lunch at 12 and then be cool with waiting until 2 to get there food? Plus the huge lines and the low amount or profit would seem to indicate that either you are really slow or you are not charging enough for the food.

 

As for the new guys, Michael totally seems like someone who really wants to be on reality TV. With his look and all the hand gestures it is like he is trying to be some mini-Trump kind of guy. Not necessarily the same personality but more trying to market himself as a character rather than a person. I am surprised he doesn't have a catch phrase yet.

[Amarsir]

The foodtruck was interesting. How the hell can you have 2 hour lines though? Who is going to go anywhere for lunch at 12 and then be cool with waiting until 2 to get there food? Plus the huge lines and the low amount or profit would seem to indicate that either you are really slow or you are not charging enough for the food.

Not unheard of for unique stuff.  In the last few years we've seen insane lines for the "cronut" in New York, or the "pumpple cake" in Philadelphia.  And then there was the famous Soup Nazi made famous by Seinfeld.  I don't know how people do it, but they do.

 

I think they mentioned their prices though, something about $8 sounds familiar.  For grilled cheese you can't get that much more expensive (even if it is gourmet).  That's why I figured they must just be slow.

[Kel Varnsen]

Not unheard of for unique stuff.  In the last few years we've seen insane lines for the "cronut" in New York, or the "pumpple cake" in Philadelphia.  And then there was the famous Soup Nazi made famous by Seinfeld.  I don't know how people do it, but they do.

 

I think they mentioned their prices though, something about $8 sounds familiar.  For grilled cheese you can't get that much more expensive (even if it is gourmet).  That's why I figured they must just be slow.

I guess that makes sense for unique things. But I guess then you have to decide if you want to be the truck where people check it out because it is something unique and try it once for a special occasion or something where people hit it up regularly for lunch. Because it would seem to me that if you go for the unique option, and you are only making what they were making now, once a certain portion of your customers have tried the sandwiches once, I am not sure you would get a lot of repeat business. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I have to say that whenever there is a pitch with half naked women, I pretty much always cringe at Jim's reaction. Last week with the tops for nursing mothers, his tongue was literally hanging out of his mouth, looking at the women in their bras. While the pitchers may have screwed up by not taking his offer, they may have been eeked out as well.

 

As far as the underwear pitcher goes, I was disappointed that Arlene said that as part of her offer she would endorse the product, when she said herself that the underwear did not feel that user friendly. And it did not look like it fit that well, if the model wearing the purple number was any indication.

 

It seems like Jim often makes offers on women related items which is great, but they also are usually (always?) attractive pitchers. I wonder if it was an unattractive woman if he would be as interested?

[Kel Varnsen]

Just watched the parking pitch and it seemed like something that would have been huge like three years ago. But I live in ottawa and most places I go already let you pay for parking on your phone. Including every city owned parjing space.

[Taeolas]

As for the parking guy, seems like he's a bit late to the game. As mentioned a lot of cities already have similar apps in play. 

 

In New Brunswick, it's HotSpot Parking, that started as a UNB project I think and is expanding now. 

 

The Visor guy, yeah that was a major strike out. Ignoring the sharp edges risk (which are hard to ignore), it seems like it would be as distracting as anything else out there. And in an accident, it's a head level object ready to be blown right into your skull. 

[The Crazed Spruce]

I always used to think that the reusable pizza box from a few seasons back was the dumbest idea ever pitched on the show.  But thanks to that visor thing, we now have a new benchmark.

[Miss Scarlet]

UsernameFatigue, I've always been kind of creeped out by Jim too. I don't think he would make the same offers to unattractive pitchers. He doesn't even try to hide his pervy-ness and the other Dragons just laugh at it. Mike Wekerle and David are starting to do the same thing, which is disappointing, especially because David is my favourite current Dragon. I guess people think of it as an even playing field because Arlene tends to objectify attractive male pitchers too, but I think both things are unfortunate. 

 

It's still early in the season, but Vikram hasn't really added much to the show so far. It seems like he'll only go in on food deals and won't go in for deals in other areas. I feel like this case of Dragons has no chemistry. I miss the dynamics between them when Kevin, Robert and Brett were there.

 

 

As for the new guys, Michael totally seems like someone who really wants to be on reality TV. With his look and all the hand gestures it is like he is trying to be some mini-Trump kind of guy. Not necessarily the same personality but more trying to market himself as a character rather than a person. I am surprised he doesn't have a catch phrase yet.

Definitely. He tries waaaay too hard. If he stays on for several seasons it will probably get super annoying.

 

Also, $30 is too high for one pair of underwear. I guess it'd be fine for somewhere like Holt Renfrew, but I would never pay that when I can get 5 pairs of underwear for $30 at other stores.

Edited November 5, 2014 by wudpixie

[Amarsir]

UsernameFatigue, I've always been kind of creeped out by Jim too. I don't think he would make the same offers to unattractive pitchers. He doesn't even try to hide his pervy-ness and the other Dragons just laugh at it. 

I disagree in that I don't think it affects his offers.  Yes, Jim's very much on the surface about liking eye candy. And it's both honest and potentially off-putting.  But because he's up-front about it, I think he's able to put attractiveness aside when it comes to an offer.  I would much more distrust someone who pretends they don't care but wants to subtly send a message.

 

I agree with you on the rest, especially regarding chemistry.  I'm trying to give the new guys a pass until they get warmed up, but so far it's definitely not the interactive group I'm used to.

[Amarsir]

I think that rupture sealer pitch indicates something about the current Dragon dynamic.  Both new Dragons said they didn't get the valuation and went out. All 3 experienced Dragons found ways to make varying orders.  Vikram might have been out anyway because it's not a food product, but Dragons who want to participate find a way to at least make an offer. Kevin always did.

 

Kevin also would have chased the Gift Card guy out of there with a lot more energy than this group showed.

 

That said, the end of the show had a bit of personality.  Michael and Arlene were playing around on that car wall short, and Vikram was front and center on the oil pitch.  

[Taeolas]

I was surprised at how the LARP pitch was received. Usually you get those types of skits and they get completely roasted by the dragons. (Granted those types of pitches are trying to pitch the latest Dinner and a Show scheme). But these guys surprisingly had a decent plan and pitch. The dragons were seriously considering them, but in the end couldn't make it work reluctantly. 

 

The card scheme is a decade late and 10$ short. Plus he missed the point of those cards (like so many of those "Combine reward cards into 1" pitchers). Companies WANT you to have a full sized reward card in your wallet so that when you're searching for someone else's card, you see it and remember "Oh yeah, I'm low on X, I should go get some." or "I haven't been to Y in awhile, I should go tonight...." Really I'm surprised no one pointed out that obviousness (I'm pretty sure Robert or Kevin called that out on an older pitch), even if the industry is shifting to online accounts.

 

The plug kit looked like a good idea, and he seems to have a solid foundation to build off of, and some great deals already set up. Plus it doesn't just work on cannisters; if you burst a pipe it could work on that too. Given time the new Dragons will figure out how these pitches will fit in their own industries, but in the mean time the older ones are snatching up some great deals. 

 

The Oil kit, she made a good deal in the end, but I suspect when we get the update, we'll see Arlene in there somehow. That's in her bailiwick on multiple fronts. But in the mean time, those three Dragons get a nice no-strings attached  karma boost. 

 

I'm beginning to think Vikram will be a 1-season dragon. Unless he diversifies by the end of the season, he doesn't seem as interested in the deals as the other ones. I can see why he joined on, but he doesn't seem to be working out as well as Michael is. 

[Amarsir]

I'm never a fan of these, but the % of investable businesses seems lower lately anyway so how bad could it be?

[Kel Varnsen]

The plug kit looked like a good idea, and he seems to have a solid foundation to build off of, and some great deals already set up. Plus it doesn't just work on cannisters; if you burst a pipe it could work on that too. Given time the new Dragons will figure out how these pitches will fit in their own industries, but in the mean time the older ones are snatching up some great deals. 

That plugged kit thing was good. Plus it was smart of the guy to make it a product for use in an industry rather than trying to adapt it for a consumer product (although I am not sure you could. I mean companies in big industries will pay a lot more for a product like that (as his margins showed) than someone trying to buy this as a gadget at Home Depot. 

 

Kevin also would have chased the Gift Card guy out of there with a lot more energy than this group showed. 

That is one thing I really miss about previous seasons. Not only did Kevin have a lot more energy, but he was a lot more witty and would have some pretty awesome comments for that card guy. 

 

Also was this the first time that David has mentioned that he has a girlfriend? I am not sure why, but for some reason I always figured that he wasn't interested in women.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[Amarsir]

Also was this the first time that David has mentioned that he has a girlfriend? I am not sure why, but for some reason I always figured that he wasn't interested in women.

David lives very modestly and has two grown kids (whom he home-schooled for several years).  I think he just embodies the "Wealthy Barber" lifestyle and isn't showy about what he wants, whatever it is. Though it's nice to hear he has a girlfriend, as one could get the impression he's a little lonely if you saw that behind-the-scenes stuff last season.

[Oinky Boinky]

The two business majors should have spent some of their education money buying a clue. 

 

I didn't think what they were selling was that special - maybe I didn't get it. 

 

Is this like my fitness pal but you hook it up and it counts reps?

 

Their biggest delusion was thinking how much they had spent collectively on their education was value added to whatever they were shilling.

[Amarsir]

Yeah, they were a huge flop. Everyone thinks they have the next great fitness idea, despite being indistinguishable from the last 5000 great fitness ideas.

The rest of the show was surprisingly good though. I don't know if the whole apple sticker progress board thing is an effective way to get kids to eat their lunch, but even my cold heart was impressed that the 6yo did the entire pitch herself. None of these really felt like the "parents have a weak idea and pretend its the kid's business" stuff we see way too much.

[UsernameFatigue]

That six year old was adorable! And while the idea does have flaws (like any kid could dump or trade any of the parts he doesn't want to eat) her idea was as good as at least 50 percent of the adult pitchers. And way better than the two fitness guys who spent $100,000 on their education. I doubt Mya (I think it was - apologies to her if I have her name wrong) will need to spend that to be a success in the world.

[Miss Scarlet]

I have a cold, black heart and don't like the student episodes. They're just too precious. For that reason I couldn't enjoy Mya's pitch.

 

I thought the nanotips was an interesting idea. I hate having to take off my gloves to switch my music on my MP3 player. Arlene didn't seem to get that the liquid only left a black smudge if you try to swipe while the glove was still wet.

 

There was too much fawning over the women pitching the boots. Yes, it's incredibly hard and admirable to come to a new country and do what they're trying to do and I think they should be commended. It just felt a bit over the top. Maybe the dragons were trying to make up for the fact that the knew the women weren't going to get a deal.

 

I got second-hand embarrassment from the fitness pitch. There are sooooo many websites like that and them insisting that their education put them above the competition/should count as part of their valuation was totally wrong. Also, I thought they were a lot younger than they were and so cringed when they took their shirts off. After I found out they were in their 20s it was fine, but before then it felt weird. I think Arlene thought so too.

 

I loved how in the Screamin Brothers pitch the kid that sat on Arlene's lap just kept eating ice cream the whole time and looking like he didn't give a crap. I felt badly for the other brother when Mike Wekerle told him he had a great smile and the kid seemed to become self-conscious of it and only smiled with his mouth closed for the rest of the pitch.

[Miss Scarlet]

Yes, David acts as though he lives a very isolated life, with little contact with people other than his parents, so I was surprised he mentioned a girlfriend too. I could see someone thinking that he wasn't interested in women and was sort of asexual-ish. I used to see him that way too, but he's gotten excited about female pitchers a couple times this season. The weirdest time this happened was a few weeks ago when the pitchers were coming down to t he den and the Dragons could only see their shadows. Arlene asked him if the woman coming to the den was his favorite model and David goes "no, that's not her profile". 

 

David and Arlene do so many deals together that I'm starting to think they should get married.

[Amarsir]

I thought the nanotips was an interesting idea. I hate having to take off my gloves to switch my music on my MP3 player. Arlene didn't seem to get that the liquid only left a black smudge if you try to swipe while the glove was still wet.

 

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten how dense she was being about that.  It was weird, like she was only using 20% of her brain on the pitch.

 

Gloves that work with touchscreens have been around for a while now.  I don't know if that's better or worse than his make-your-own liquid, but certainly there's room for the product.  (Incidentally, there are also gloves with a speaker in the thumb and a microphone in the pinky.  You can answer your phone by miming yourself talking on the phone.)

 

There was too much fawning over the women pitching the boots. Yes, it's incredibly hard and admirable to come to a new country and do what they're trying to do and I think they should be commended. It just felt a bit over the top. Maybe the dragons were trying to make up for the fact that the knew the women weren't going to get a deal.

It must be that last bit.  Dragons Den always tries to be encouraging unless the product is a ridiculous dead end.  But I also thought it was over-fawning which they only did since it's free.

[Kel Varnsen]

Yes, David acts as though he lives a very isolated life, with little contact with people other than his parents, so I was surprised he mentioned a girlfriend too. I could see someone thinking that he wasn't interested in women and was sort of asexual-ish. 

After the behind the seasons episode awhile back when they showed how simple and isolated his life was I sort of figured he was either a sort of asexual type of person or a very very private gay man.  Which is why I mentioned above that I was surprised that he mentioned his girlfriend. Then again if he can keep his life that private while being on a successful reality show and being a best selling author (with his picture on the book) then that is very impressive.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[The Crazed Spruce]

Sorry, couldn't find a description of the episode.

[Taeolas]

I'm really beginning to think Vikram is going to be a 1-season Dragon. He doesn't seem to be fitting in with the rest of the dragons. He sat out on a big deal that had 3-4 Dragons in it this time. And more tellingly, he lost a food deal to Jim and Arlene that should have been an easy one for him to seal. Has he made any deals yet this season other than the token First episode deal? 

 

Michael seems to be fitting in better now at least, so I suspect he'll be around next year.

[UsernameFatigue]

It is hard to say with Vikram. He lost the food deal (I thought it was to David and Arlene) because they offered more than the pitchers asked for. Hard to say if they had two offers at full ask rather than one over ask if they would have gone with Vikram. He does seem to stick with businesses he knows, but then he has a much narrower range. I wasn't surprised that he went out early on the disc jockey board pitch - he was out before the rest of the dragons offered from what I remember.

 

I didn't understand the big deal about the website guy. I was shocked that he got a deal with basically no presentation. I have bought a few houses and never used a realtor website. I did my own reseach on MLS as to which houses I wanted to see, then contacted the realtor to show them. I have no idea why anyone would pay big bucks for a website - webmasters are a dime a dozen. What did I miss that was worth a 2 million dollar investment?

[Amarsir]

"She can't get out of her own way." [Camera shows her tripping over a dog.]   Sometimes I really love this show's editors.

 

I'm really beginning to think Vikram is going to be a 1-season Dragon. He doesn't seem to be fitting in with the rest of the dragons. He sat out on a big deal that had 3-4 Dragons in it this time. And more tellingly, he lost a food deal to Jim and Arlene that should have been an easy one for him to seal. Has he made any deals yet this season other than the token First episode deal? 

I think you might be right.  Losing out on the deal is understandable, as it he was going against two experienced dragons who underbid him.  Vikram was surprised too, and with experience losing out he might try harder next time.  But I do agree that his reluctance on other things is an issue.

[Amarsir]

I didn't understand the big deal about the website guy. I was shocked that he got a deal with basically no presentation. I have bought a few houses and never used a realtor website. I did my own reseach on MLS as to which houses I wanted to see, then contacted the realtor to show them. I have no idea why anyone would pay big bucks for a website - webmasters are a dime a dozen. What did I miss that was worth a 2 million dollar investment?

I don't get it either.  A guy claiming to be an expert in SEO comes in and values his company at 50 million, and they take that seriously?  Nonsense to me.

 

That said, there's a TON of money in real estate sales.  (Agents split 6% of sale price, which I have always found outrageous.)  An agent making well into 6 figures can easily afford $10k to be competitive, and he's smart to get a piece of that.

 

But Arlene was right.  That segment didn't make me want to invest in him.  It made me want to go compete against him.

[UsernameFatigue]

I hate to quote Kevin (and I only miss him when we see pitches like this) but there is nothing proprietary about a website business. I have a friend who is one of the top realtors in my city - she has an employee whose full time job is maintaining her website. I am on the board of local charity -we received a grant for $3000 to hire someone to create a new website for our charity, and we update it ourselves. I am shocked that any dragon would jump on the bandwagon (and at two million dollars - yikes) for a business that pretty much anyone could start up. It is mind boggling to me.

 

Realtors are a dime a dozen. Many can hardly afford to pay the monthly rental of space at the agency, and put in long hours with nothing to show for their work. Obviously this guy has convinced a certain number to buy his services. But many would not be able to afford it, and realtors like my friend employ their own dedicated webperson. So I don't know why someone watching DD wouldn't just think 'Geez, I could do that' and like you said Amarsir, become his competitor.

Edited November 21, 2014 by UsernameFatigue

[Amarsir]

Realtors are a dime a dozen. Many can hardly afford to pay the monthly rental of space at the agency, and put in long hours with nothing to show for their work. Obviously this guy has convinced a certain number to buy his services. But many would not be able to afford it, and realtors like my friend employ their own dedicated webperson.

Well said, and it makes me want to expand/correct my previous statement. Even if we assume his sites do something special that a regular web designer can't do, there's still a mismatch.  The realtors making enough to pay his fee don't need it because they're already doing very well.  The ones who would need it to generate links can't afford to get in.  If he got paid off leads then it's an easy "what the heck" for anyone, but that's not what they're doing.

 

And by the way, did he say "expand to 1000 employees"?  Did that guy think he's the next Facebook?

[UsernameFatigue]

So Jim has invested in another business that involves half naked women. Big surprise. I did not see what was so special about the idea/suits. Also it seemed to be highly edited because the cardboard pictures in front of every model went from being up to down to up to down. They should have been on stands and up permanently since the body types was the jist of her idea. Personally, I know I have known since I was 13  years old that I have an hourglass figure and have known since then what suits suit my body type. Plus many lines already have labels that indicate which body type they would suit. And her price point was outrageous. I did once just for fun try on a very expensive suit and felt like I was wearing a spanx bathing suit - it was extremely uncomfortable and would be very hot to boot.

 

I had no idea who the Olympic gold medal winner was who was part of the mobile bike fixing truck. They never did introduce him, and though David said he is one of the best known athletes in Canada I have no clue who he was. I may recognize his name (didn't his face) but it was very irritating that the show wasn't edited to make sure that his name was included.

 

I like Vikram and have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt as to whether he fits in on the den, but he really doesn't. I think part of the problem is he doesn't appear to have to capital that the others do. Even when he wants to make an offer like he did with the drywall tool, he was outbid. Which brings me to a pet peeve of this season. I don't remember this happening much before (and think it is happening in Shark Tank as well) but I really don't think the dragons should be able to offer over ask. I creates an unlevel playing field where the more wealthy can bulldoze the rest of the field, or two can gang up and offer more. It happened last week with Arlene and David giving more than ask to the family with the basalmic vinegar business. Vikram did make a bid (or was about to - can't remember) but they went with the bid over ask. I think the dragons should have to win based on their own merits, not by flashing more money than the ask.

Edited November 27, 2014 by UsernameFatigue

[Amarsir]

What I was wondering on the bathing suit pitch is to what extent women know their shape.  If they don't, that's too much education for her line to do. If they do, Why would we think her line is unique.  Either way those prices certainly seemed too high to me.  But I'm a guy; I pay $20 for trunks and don't care how they look.

 

 

I had no idea who the Olympic gold medal winner was who was part of the mobile bike fixing truck. They never did introduce him, and though David said he is one of the best known athletes in Canada I have no clue who he was. I may recognize his name (didn't his face) but it was very irritating that the show wasn't edited to make sure that his name was included.

That wasn't the only time this show left out important introductory information.  Only after backing up and then checking Canadian Tire did I get that the drywall product is called "Mastercraft Maximum Drywall Axe".  Part of that is on the entrepreneurs for not putting the info forward, but you'd think that's important information.

 

I disagree with you on overbidding.  I think it's more interesting and allows interested Dragons to compensate for their lack of subject matter expertise so that there are more competitive offers overall.  Maybe Vikram doesn't have the same capital; that's possible.  But I don't think it's so limiting that he couldn't compete on these.  He just doesn't want to.

[Taeolas]

Well not announcing the name of the Canadian Tire version of the product is understandable; they probably didn't get a proper advertising cut/deal behind the scenes, so they ended up skimming over what it really was. (Especially since the Dragons seem to make deals with Home Hardware more often).

 

The Olympian, I could've sworn I heard them mention his name and sport; but I was only half paying attention to the ep so I may have misheard it.

 

Outbidding is just part of the process, and I don't have a problem with it. Most of the times the Dragons (and Sharks) are cooperative enough that if a smaller one would get cut out but has more experience, they'll do a dual deal. The only restriction on the deals is that for a deal to be successful, the presenter has to walk out with at least as much money as they ask for. Everything and anything else is fair game. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I honestly don't remember overbidding to be a normal part of the den in previous years but seems to be this year. And I have never seen someone overbidding bring in a lessor bid.  Usually the person who has offered full price is ticked at the person who has offered overprice. They usually are dickering over the percentage of ownership, not the amount of the ask. So to clarify my point, the Dragons before (and Sharks) have outbid with regards to taking a lower percentage for the amount asked, but not offered more money than was asked for. At least not routinely as it seems to be now.

 

I did rewind a couple of times regarding the Olympian (whoever it was) and while the pitchers were likely planning on saying his name, the dragons and David in particular jumped in before they could, with David calling him one of the best known athletes in the country. Apparently it was assumed that everyone watching would know who he was, and what sport he won a gold medal for.

[Amarsir]

I assumed he was a cyclist.  After looking him up, he's actually a Triathlete, so I'm 1/3 right.  But apparently he won gold and silver at Olympics and was chosen to be the flag carrier in 2012, so I can see why some people would think he's a household name.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Whitfield