S02.E05: The Book of Carol: Vouloir, C'est Pouvoir

[Mr. Sparkle]

A new faction of survivors hunt down Laurent; Carol's lies come to a head.

Sunday, October 27 on AMC and AMC+

[Morrigan2575]

I liked this one, we wrapped up some storylines/characters but, obviously we still have to find a way back. Plus that crazy lady survived and she was worse then Losang. I really like Codron and his talk with Laurent about anger and fear. I don't know if Laurent is a super special boy or not but, he certainly brings out the best in people. 

The fight scenes in the crypt were really well done. Although the whole club scene made me think of John Wick. I wonder if those catacombs were real or created for the show; they have them in Rome, the Capuchin Crypts.

I love Ash. I really do, I hope he survives, and they have a grand adventure all 4 of them.  He was right to call Carol out, especially because the lie she used was designed to manipulate him due to his son's death.

I like Laurent,  he's a sweet kid, I partly want him to continue his adventures with Carol/Daryl. The other part of me wants him as far away as possible because he's so sweet and Carol/Daryl/Crew are like the plague.  😆

Edited October 28 by Morrigan2575

[Sailorgirl26]

10 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

The fight scenes in the crypt were really well done. Although the whole club scene made me think of John Wick. I wonder if those catacombs were real or created for the show; they have them in Rome, the Capuchin Crypts.

The catacombs in Paris are indeed very real.

https://www.catacombes.paris.fr/en#

There's many, many steps you have to take to get down into the catacombs. Unrelated to the convo but what I think of every time I see them in a show or movie . . .  I had a ticket to tour them but blew out my knee and spent the day with an ice pack on my knee. I was really upset as the catacombs were one of my absolute musts on that trip. . . they apparently are quite something to see, and easy to get lost in (but they don't allow tourists into a lot of the areas. 

This was a good episode -- they moved the plot along nicely and Coudron is a good addition to both the badassery and redemption themes that define Carol and Daryl's character arcs. 

Edited October 28 by Sailorgirl26

[tv echo]

I liked this episode overall as well. I'm glad that Carol finally came clean about her lies to Ash. I liked how Daryl and Carol rescued Ash from that car in such a matter of fact manner - fighting through dozens of walkers, no panicking about being trapped inside the car. The fight scenes in the catacombs were so dark on my screen that I had trouble telling who was fighting or what happened.

Clearly, someone is going to have to stay behind. Ash is the pilot so he has to go on the plane. Most likely, Laurent will be convinced to go with Ash. Daryl and Carol will each volunteer to stay behind, but neither will want to leave the other behind alone. So, again most likely, Daryl and Carol stay behind together to search for another way back to America (cue next season). I also read some speculation that Ash could take in Laurent, which is the reason he had the whole back story of having lost a son. Again, all just speculation.

Alternatively, Ash is killed and the plane is destroyed. Laurent goes with Daryl and Carol as they search for another way back to America.

Edited October 28 by tv echo

[nodorothyparker]

This was a pretty well done episode once you get past the whole wait, why are all these people still willing to get themselves killed over this one kid who very clearly does NOT want to be part of your cult after you've already gotten most of your cult killed over him? I mean, really, they've mostly wiped themselves out and very plainly moved on from the whole peaceful nonviolence they were preaching and the kid obviously can't survive a walker bite to be your new messiah, so what's the point? Some vague concept of "hope?"

The thing that made this episode so interesting is something that's been talked about over the run of various shows in the franchise: That as the remnants of Rick's wrecking crew they've left a pretty long trail of bodies and destruction behind them while they keep on keeping on and if they weren't the people we've been following all the way along, we might not be so quick to recognize them as "the good guys." This episode really felt like it was leaning into that idea and that even Daryl and Carol weren't fully sure of the answer. This, after they of course blithely assumed Le Kid Jesus would be jumping at the chance to chuck every last thing familiar to him to go to America with near strangers, where everything would be better and possible for a real childhood. As if Carol and Daryl don't both know all too well how lethal ZA America has been to kids not named Judith too. Carol talked about Ash as if he was another kid to be smoothed over and reasoned with and not a grown man who'd seen his entire post ZA life go up in flames to almost literally fly blind across the ocean on the basis of a lie. And she and Daryl just assumed without even talking to him that of course he'd be just fine with everything to fly whoever they decided to bring along for the ride. It never once seemed to cross either of their minds that he might pull a Cartman screw you guys, I'm going home alone after all your bullshit.

Ash has been a great addition, so hopefully he survives to stick around for whatever adventure they end up in next. He deserves to be more than just a plot conveyance. I could almost understand Carol's initial thinking that he didn't really need the details, that dead Sophia is still dead Sophia and what difference did it really make, especially in the wake of Ash saying that the trip had actually been good for him in finally getting him unstuck to start living again. Carol's confession read more like a unburdening to make herself feel better than because it was the right thing to do, and I briefly wondered if she would have done it if Daryl wasn't now a part of their entourage and probably would tell him at some point if she didn't. The actor did a tremendous job of turning on a dime after the reveal and letting us see just how big the betrayal felt to him, and Carol just standing there and taking it felt very in character with her history.

I weirdly find myself rooting for Codrone to make it. His talk with Le Kid Jesus about what anger and fear do to people was lovely.

 

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

Alternatively, Ash is killed and the plane is destroyed. Laurent goes with Daryl and Carol as they search for another way back to America.

This is what I'm afraid will happen. I really don't want Ash to die but, if they are keeping them in Europe it's a possibility 

 

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

also read some speculation that Ash could take in Laurent, which is the reason he had the whole back story of having lost a son. Again, all just speculation

Given his reaction to seeing Laurent and that he lost his son, the idea did cross my mind last night.

[Sailorgirl26]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

This is what I'm afraid will happen. I really don't want Ash to die but, if they are keeping them in Europe it's a possibility 

 

Given his reaction to seeing Laurent and that he lost his son, the idea did cross my mind last night.

Quoted the wrong comment. I like the idea of Ash taking Laurent to fill the void of losing his son -- we know that D & C are headed to Spain next season and it would be a good way to close the book on the messiah child story. Funny, because I hated the kid the first season but he's finally grown on me the past two episodes, because he's acting like a normal kid and not some all-knowing, all-feeling whatever. . . . 

Edited October 28 by Sailorgirl26

[iarwain]

I think the nice thing about this episode was that you could see the light at the end of the tunnel.  The bad people are getting really thinned out, and you can see that maybe the heroes will finally get somewhere.  I would really like to see Laurent back in Alexandria, if they decide to allow us a happy ending.  Figure the odds.

[iMonrey]

Anna is the one who is running the club, right? I can't remember what her backstory was last season. She apologized for something unspecific. I have a vague recollection she was jealous of Isabelle and maybe ratted out Daryl or something? It's all a blur.

[iarwain]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Anna is the one who is running the club, right? I can't remember what her backstory was last season. She apologized for something unspecific. I have a vague recollection she was jealous of Isabelle and maybe ratted out Daryl or something? It's all a blur.

I don't quite remember her either.  For a minute, I thought she was the club owner from the Maggie/Negan show lol.

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Anna is the one who is running the club, right? I can't remember what her backstory was last season. She apologized for something unspecific. I have a vague recollection she was jealous of Isabelle and maybe ratted out Daryl or something? It's all a blur.

According to the Wiki she was jealous of Isabelle who moved in with Quinn (Anna's boyfriend/ex) she sells out Quinn which put Luarent in danger.

So you were right.

Edited October 29 by Morrigan2575