S04.E08: Under Color of Law

[maraleia]

 

Cullen makes a decision to ensure his family's safety. Campbell hires a new federal marshal to clean up the streets.

 

[RealityGal]

 

Is the decision to send Naomi and the child to the Mormon camp?  I do so hope thats what it is!!!!

[leisawoo]

Fingers crossed!

[RealityGal]

Fingers crossed!

toes too!

[leisawoo]

Oh, yeah while making the sign of the cross, hee!! We should be friends in real life, lol!

[Ohwell]

Oh please, please, let them be gone tonight!

[TheRabbi]

This season has been an absolute mess in my opinion.  I'm only still watching because I don't really give up shows in the 4th season, and there's only a few left this season.  I was not remotely interested in anything happening in this episode.  Billy the Kid (or whatever his name is) as the marshal, the Swede going on his little pilgrimage, Bohannon dumping his dead weight at the Mormon camp, Elam's prisoner trying to adjust to life no longer as a prisoner, etc. Yawn.

[Ohwell]

I agree this episode was kind of a dud, but the previews for next week look much better.  So I guess you could say this one was the calm before the storm.

 

I hope we don't see any more of Sidney Snow after next week, courtesy of Cullen.

 

I'm actually happy that Naomi and the baby are safe and sound.  I just hope they're gone for good. 

 

At this point, I don't even care or get upset that the Swede is still there because it seems the writers are hellbent on keeping him around.  I just get up and go to the fridge or the bathroom when he's on. 

Edited September 21, 2014 by Ohwell

[beesknees]

Pretty much yawned thru this episode.  Now to the things that bug - WHY the (bleep) is the Swede getting a pass from Brigham Young?  Uggh, I thought the Swede's storyline was dead but obvi not ... :(

 

Naomi leaving was good.  I hope that when Cullen goes back to retrieve her she's remarried or something along those lines.

 

[NorthstarATL]

Pretty much yawned thru this episode.  Now to the things that bug - WHY the (bleep) is the Swede getting a pass from Brigham Young?  Uggh, I thought the Swede's storyline was dead but obvi not ... :(

 

Naomi leaving was good.  I hope that when Cullen goes back to retrieve her she's remarried or something along those lines.

Exactly why I hate when real people interact with fictional characters! I'm going to assume that Young delivers the Swede to justice simply because having him turn a blind eye to murder does a disservice to the man's memory.

  I only hope that Cullen manages to wrest his son away from the judgmental shrew at some point. Both she and Psalms again this episode! Cullen did not intenionally murder Elam, and they both know it!

    I was surprised about Sara Canning's character's direction, though. From what she had said a couple of episodes ago, I would have thought she had connections, and that, once freed, we'd find out what those were, and perhaps it would have an impact upon the town power dynamic. I don't get the purpose of adding her, epsecially as Eva's inhabiting a similar role. (I guess the two Indian women went back home or opened a nice boutique in town. They probably won't keep in touch.)

     Even though it looks as if

it's going to bite them in the tail next week

I was happy with Ezras bravery in hiding Mickey and staring down Snow! Ditto the reporter's look when Cullen said he'd asked nicely before retrieving his gun.

[DoctorK]

 

I guess the two Indian women went back home or opened a nice boutique in town.

That gave me a good laugh, thanks.

[Dowel Jones]

Something I have been wondering over thepast few episodes:  The Palmer House sure is one fine bit of craftsmanship for the still basic semi-tent city that is Cheyenne.  Where did she get the labor force and the materials for such a fine building?  They would be equally adept at whatever rough carpentry that the railroad required.  Plot requirements aside, it would have benefitted Durant far more to just try and hire replacements rather than try and fight it out with the Marshal.  But that's a moot point, now. 

 

In real llfe, I'm pretty sure that Brigham Young preached the doctrine of "blood atonement", so I don't think this is going to end well for the Swede.  Of course, with as many lives as he has, that could end up being his epitaph should he actually perish sometime.

[maraleia]

Did anyone else have weird edits during the show? It's like the transmission was all wonky.

[Puffaroo]

I'm actually happy that Naomi and the baby are safe and sound.  I just hope they're gone for good.

 

I'm guessing until the series finale, when Bohannon will go back to get them.

 

Both she and Psalms again this episode! Cullen did not intenionally murder Elam, and they both know it!

 

He did kill Elam on purpose, though.  He saw what was happening and did what he felt had to be done.  Some would call that murder.

[NorthstarATL]

I'm guessing until the series finale, when Bohannon will go back to get them.

 

 

He did kill Elam on purpose, though.  He saw what was happening and did what he felt had to be done.  Some would call that murder.

Or self defense. I suppose Naomi would rather he had died instead? (Judging from her general sour demeanor I'd hazard a guess that she would.)

[bentley]

Count me in the "glad the wife is gone or sidelined" club. My guess is we won't see or hear much from her ever again, but her mere presence will prevent Cullen from ever finding complete happiness with any other woman.

Eva looked jealous of how much easier a time the woman Elam took was having transitioning back into society. I'm sure she's resentful that she never had a wealthy patron keeping her off the streets when she first showed up. And I too thought the white woman (what's her name?) had powerful connections, so I was confused when she said she had no family and no help. Maybe she means they won't help her or acknowledge her now that she's "damaged goods"?

I just sighed when I saw we were going to spend at least part of another episode at Fort Boredom. Enough already. I hate it when the episode only starts to get good with just minutes to go. Any time Cullen leaves the railroad town, the show suffers. Now I cannot wait for next week, to see how Cullen is going to take on the carpetbaggers, plus his old frenemy Sidney.

Ezra has learned some lessons from Cullen. He's a total badass in training.

[beesknees]

I love me some little Ezra.  And I suppose he'll be killed off too at some point soon because I am liking him and his storyline is becoming more complex.

[Ohwell]

Eva looked jealous of how much easier a time the woman Elam took was having transitioning back into society. I'm sure she's resentful that she never had a wealthy patron keeping her off the streets when she first showed up.

Yeah, Eva was looking pretty cutthroat at her.  I'm glad the woman had a heart to heart discussion with her about Elam and I thought it was nice of her to tell Eva that Elam was thinking about her.  I think Eva's going down a dangerous path, with the gambling and drinking.  Maybe she can become friends with the woman and go down a different, less dangerous path.  The thing I wonder about is since Eva took the woman to the hotel lady for a job, why couldn't Eva have gotten a job there herself?  Did she think the woman wouldn't want her because of her past, or is it because she doesn't want to do respectable work?  At any rate, I'm tired of "bitter" Eva and I hope she's turned the corner. 

 

Ezra has learned some lessons from Cullen. He's a total badass in training.

Loved his staredown with Sidney.  I'm still holding out hope that Ezra is the one who is instrumental in taking the Swede down.

[Ailianna]

Where did she get the labor force and the materials for such a fine building? They would be equally adept at whatever rough carpentry that the railroad required. Plot requirements aside, it would have benefitted Durant far more to just try and hire replacements rather than try and fight it out with the Marshal.

But the town of Cheyenne only exists in any meaningful fashion because of the railroad. There is no one else to hire without sending back East for people--weeks at least of delay, and aside from the obviously skilled workers, like the blacksmiths who were taken, it takes a while to learn the "brute" labor of the railroad. How to lay track, how to properly secure ties, all sorts of things that aren't "educated" but aren't farming or picking cotton or whatever else people were doing before the war. There was some of that in the first season, showing how people were learning the railroad trade. So that's weeks or months of slow down. Why would he (before he was arrested--in that few hours) try to get new people instead of trying to get the people he already has released. Plus, we've already seen how the loyalty of the men working can make an enormous difference in the work they do.

I like the politics and the personality conflicts of the story, so I did like this one, though I'm also hoping the Swede (Norwegian!) is walking into a nice demonstration from Brigham Young of exactly why you shouldn't kill a preacher's family.

[nodorothyparker]

There better be some serious payoff for this protracted Campbell and the carpetbaggers vs. everyone in town story.  I originally thought Campbell an interesting addition but I'm having serious doubts now about his ability to Big Bad with his decision to name a psychopathic child killer as a federal marshal to impose order.  Because giving power to someone as unhinged as Sidney Snow can't possibly end badly.

 

I swear the story grinds to a complete halt every time we have to revisit the Mormons or whatever bit of raving the Swede is up to this week.  I got my hopes up we were about to see an interesting railroad story when Cullen moved the freedman crew to making parts but of course all that was abandoned while we had to catch up with this week's installment of Snitty Mormon Wife either running away from or back home.  I can't even bring myself to try to follow whatever the Swede-Brigham Young plot is.  You want know why you lost your 9 p.m. viewing slot in our house, show?  This crap is why.  It's a show about the railroad and the people building it.  Maybe try giving us a glimpse of that every couple of weeks or so.

[Babalooie]

NODOROTHYPARKER, maybe the show is actually about Westward Expansion in general, which would include the building of the railroad affecting the Natives, the farmers, the Mormons, etc.

 

Re:  Sidney and his out-of-character huge white teeth and flowing blonde locks, here are some doppelgangers.

        http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=greg+allman&id=D68CF12666D75641F0D4DE02BBD8D51C380BB7B2&FORM=IARRTH#view=detail&id=A8F8DD781276C3FC483D43ADD5591B6D7F931779&selectedIndex=32

 

 

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=johnny+van+zant&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=0CB4356E5D2D50A3089548E91A350E9E01A77080&selectedIndex=1

Edited September 22, 2014 by Babalooie

[ikmccall]

Yeah, Eva was looking pretty cutthroat at her.  I'm glad the woman had a heart to heart discussion with her about Elam and I thought it was nice of her to tell Eva that Elam was thinking about her.  I think Eva's going down a dangerous path, with the gambling and drinking.  Maybe she can become friends with the woman and go down a different, less dangerous path.  The thing I wonder about is since Eva took the woman to the hotel lady for a job, why couldn't Eva have gotten a job there herself?  Did she think the woman wouldn't want her because of her past, or is it because she doesn't want to do respectable work?  At any rate, I'm tired of "bitter" Eva and I hope she's turned the corner. 

 

Loved his staredown with Sidney.  I'm still holding out hope that Ezra is the one who is instrumental in taking the Swede down.

 

 

I think that because of her face tattoos, it would be hard for her to get a respectable job.  Back then, they would see the tattoos and know that she had been kidnapped by a Native and most likely raped. 

[justmehere]

her mere presence will prevent Cullen from ever finding complete happiness with any other woman.

 

 

And effectively keep romance out of the show, which some will like. I know Cullen is still driven and doesn't have time or inclination for it really, but I'd like to see a real relationship be part of his eventual healing (I hope healing is where they're headed). I don't see it with Naomi, though. Having the Mormons OK a divorce (it does happen) so she can be back in the community with a husband would be good. I'm tired of death being the primary way characters leave the show. Joseph didn't die at least.

 

I hoped that the Swede heading off to Utah meant he was just going to fade out. Guess not. I have a hard time believing that there would be no repercussions for killing the bishop and his family. I don't even care anymore if they kill him off or not. He's completely mad but is such a survivor... I don't know. It just needs to end somehow. I liked how his Norwegian accent started coming through at one point though. Nice touch.

 

I love Jake Weber generally and think he's doing well with Campbell, considering what he's given, but there's is something missing in this story. It feels one-note and not even logical at times. Who is this guy really? Hiring Sidney makes so little sense, and I definitely hope he's gone after next episode, but does Cullen really have to kill another friend? Not that he'd mourn this one much, but still. Anyway, there's got to be more to Campbell than we've seen, and it's about time for a reveal.

 

I did like Bohannon talking to Psalms and telling him that was the end of the conversation.

 

I have no idea what's going on with Mickey or Ruth; they've barely had a part lately  -- although I guess Mickey was out of town. This felt like: Oh yeah, those two. Better have a scene for them. Louise has been on the fringes too. I appreciate that they haven't had nothing but scenes of Ruth mourning Cullen's marriage, but instead, she's barely been in the picture. Couldn't they think up anything else for her? How about having her actually helping people in the town? And who, even, is Durant anymore? He seems all over the place.

 

This season just feels disjointed. Certain individual elements have been good, but it doesn't flow or hang together like it used to.

 

I do kind of like Eva's reinvention of herself as a gambler and don't mind her bitterness about the easy acceptance of the other woman (Charlotte). Both were kidnapped, but Eva will always have limited prospects thanks to the tattoo. She did take Charlotte in and help her, and Charlotte has shown gratitude; it would be nice if they became friends. I keep thinking that the women who aren't whores would interact and support each other more.

[Ohwell]

I think that because of her face tattoos, it would be hard for her to get a respectable job.  Back then, they would see the tattoos and know that she had been kidnapped by a Native and most likely raped.

Yes, but the thing is, she's well-known in Cheyenne now.  It's not like she's some tattooed whore who just rode into town.  The hotel lady seems fair enough, and it just seems to me that Eva could get a respectable job if she wanted one.  Gambling and excessive drinking (and it does seems as if she drinks too much) are bad enough for a man, and I can imagine it was even worse for a woman back then. 

[xyzzy]

Exactly why I hate when real people interact with fictional characters! I'm going to assume that Young delivers the Swede to justice simply because having him turn a blind eye to murder does a disservice to the man's memory.

 

Brigham Young wasn't particularly opposed to violence if my memory of American history is correct. He engaged in a war against federal troops (the Utah War) and has been implicated in a massacre. Historians argue about the extent of his involvement in the massacre, but there's no doubt that he sent his militia after federal troops arriving to install a new governor in Utah. After the massacre (by LDS people), he allowed a bunch of dead people to just rot in the prairie, leaving it up to the feds to bury them.

[RealityGal]

well, now I have an end of the season death to root for!  Here's looking at you Sidney Snow!

 

So glad Naomi and the child (William?) are safely packed off at the Mormon camp, she even had time to give one last disapproving, disgusted look to Cullen.  She really knows how to make a man want to finish his railroad business so he can rush back to her!  What man doesn't want a lifetime of looking at that pinched and angry mug every morning?

 

The minute you start messing with Psalms is the minute you cross the line with me.  Although, I side with the camp that wonders how the governor ever thought giving Sidney Snow a badge and a gun wasn't going to end poorly.  Its a huge, crappy gamble.  

 

Re: the Swede.  I find it awfully suspicious that he and Brigham Young have the same general look.  I'm wondering it he is gonna try to go all Bishop Dutson on Brigham Young at some point.  I just feel like something is going to happen there, and they do have the same general look, older white guys, full beards, white hair, on the taller side.  I can't see where else they might be going with this, but you can't sleep on the Swede!

[Jeebus Cripes]

So glad Naomi and the child (William?) are safely packed off at the Mormon camp, she even had time to give one last disapproving, disgusted look to Cullen.  She really knows how to make a man want to finish his railroad business so he can rush back to her!  What man doesn't want a lifetime of looking at that pinched and angry mug every morning?

 

It's as if they go out of their way to make her as unlikable as possible with the constant nagging and dour disposition. I can't stand her. Also, am I imagining things or does baby William never cry? That is the quietest infant, I swear. 

[Ailianna]

Yes, but the thing is, she's well-known in Cheyenne now. It's not like she's some tattooed whore who just rode into town. The hotel lady seems fair enough, and it just seems to me that Eva could get a respectable job if she wanted one.

Exactly. They all know her. They know she slept with the Cherokee (is that who had her?) rather than kill herself like a respectable woman. They know she was a whore and many of the men in Cheyenne have probably had sex with her. They know she slept with and married a black man, and a former slave, instead of keeping her white body for white men. And now they know she's going into the casino with men, gambling with men, drinking with men. It's important not to overlook the time period in which Eva is living. She's not going to get a "respectable" job. Ever. She's probably not even really able to go to church if she wants to, which respectable women have to do every week. Elam was not only her love and her husband, he's probably as close as she is ever realistically going to get to a happy ending.

And at the hotel, they can't afford to hire her. No respectable people would stay at a hotel with someone like her working (or staying) there, and that would leave rough trade from the railroad or nothing. While we don't think these things are important and think people can change and better themselves, at that time, a woman really had only two choices--stay pure and good and on the level she started on, or spiral down. WOrking hard and raising herself to a better position really wasn't realistic, especially in a small place like Cheyenne. Maybe in San Fransisco, but she would need not only a way to get there, but seed money. Or she's back on her back trying to stay alive.

[NorthstarATL]

Brigham Young wasn't particularly opposed to violence if my memory of American history is correct. He engaged in a war against federal troops (the Utah War) and has been implicated in a massacre. Historians argue about the extent of his involvement in the massacre, but there's no doubt that he sent his militia after federal troops arriving to install a new governor in Utah. After the massacre (by LDS people), he allowed a bunch of dead people to just rot in the prairie, leaving it up to the feds to bury them.

There is a difference between acts of war and murder. Having Young condone the murders the Swede took part in would unfairly portray an actual person, and would seem beyond the bounds of what he may have perpetrated while he lived.

[Ottis]

I think Brigham Young views the Swede as his own "Reek" (GoT reference). He can enjoy the clear craziness, and use someone he views as both crazy and capable to achieve his goals. And when BY is done with The Swede, assuming The Swede lives through whatever BY has him do, then BY kills The Swede.

 

I was not remotely interested in anything happening in this episode.

 

 

I actually liked this episode a lot. Things finally happened. The chess pieces were put in place.  Naomi and baby are gone, Cullen is fired up, Campbell made a move on Durant by giving Sidney a role that he will almost surely screw up and/or regret, the white lady hostage has a home for now (not sure this will amount to anything given her desperation - I had expected her to be related to Grant or someone similar in some way, and that to help Cullen), Mickey is back and ready to help Cullen (and Durant, an unlikely threesome who needs each other). Next week should be good.

 

The larger question of whether Durant, Cullen and Mickey have any future in the evolving West remains open. As it becomes more civilized and regulated, people like those three have to move on, because they don't thrive in civil and regulated places. In that sense, Campbell is just executing the inevitable step in what will happen one way or another (he is just a dick about it).

 

I was surprised that Campbell didn't arrest Cullen. He could, for a variety of crimes (real or suspected).

Edited September 22, 2014 by Ottis

[RealityGal]

Exactly. They all know her. They know she slept with the Cherokee (is that who had her?) rather than kill herself like a respectable woman. They know she was a whore and many of the men in Cheyenne have probably had sex with her. They know she slept with and married a black man, and a former slave, instead of keeping her white body for white men. And now they know she's going into the casino with men, gambling with men, drinking with men. It's important not to overlook the time period in which Eva is living. She's not going to get a "respectable" job. Ever. She's probably not even really able to go to church if she wants to, which respectable women have to do every week. Elam was not only her love and her husband, he's probably as close as she is ever realistically going to get to a happy ending.

And at the hotel, they can't afford to hire her. No respectable people would stay at a hotel with someone like her working (or staying) there, and that would leave rough trade from the railroad or nothing. While we don't think these things are important and think people can change and better themselves, at that time, a woman really had only two choices--stay pure and good and on the level she started on, or spiral down. WOrking hard and raising herself to a better position really wasn't realistic, especially in a small place like Cheyenne. Maybe in San Fransisco, but she would need not only a way to get there, but seed money. Or she's back on her back trying to stay alive.

 

She worked directly for Durant, who was in charge of the entire town.  She has shown her skill as a nurse/healer, and I have to think that no matter what, people enjoy living, even if the person helping them has slept with a black man.  I think Durant offered to get her another job as well.  Ruth seems like a person hellbent on not being judgmental, and I think I've seen Eva in church.  But she did work directly for Durant and is someone he has always looked out for.  I think gambling is her preferred profession, for her own reasons.  While I think the time period is important, I think its also important to remember that it was the West, and the laws were not as strict, and a lot of people who decided to head west did so because they simply could not be in the East, or they wanted a fresh start away from the South.

Edited September 22, 2014 by RealityGal

[Ottis]

While I think the time period is important, I think its also important to remember that it was the West, and the laws were not as strict, and a lot of people who decided to head west did so because they simply could not be in the East, or they wanted a fresh start away from the South.

 

 

True, but for women then this was exceptionally problematic. Even freed slaves had more going for them, for the exact reason you cite: a fresh start, in a place more distant from slavery and the Civil War. And freed slaves had the added advantage of being men (at least the ones we have seen so far are all men). Their basic value, as human machines, was clear because they had the strength to handle jobs that required strength. There was little or no "virtue rules" attached to men, as there were women. What is Eva's value in a place like that? Perhaps she will prove to have an exceptional business mind, and raise herself to the role of running a casino (either out front of if need be, behind the scenes). But the odds are stacked against her, for no fault of her own, even in a place where people sought a fresh start.  

[Ohwell]

If Eva actually likes what she's doing now, drinking and gambling, then I take no issue with her.  However, she always has this "woe is me and I'm bitter" look on her face like she feels she's been given a bad hand (pardon the pun).  Cheyenne is full of people who have had it rough and are trying to make a new start in life.  And who's to say Louise had it easy as a woman during those times?  Or the hotel lady?  Plus, they might not have had a Durant in their life to help them.  The point is, they overcame obstacles, and if Eva thinks her life sucks, then she needs stop looking like she's about to go to the gallows, and do something about it.  And stop blaming Cullen.

[RealityGal]

True, but for women then this was exceptionally problematic. Even freed slaves had more going for them, for the exact reason you cite: a fresh start, in a place more distant from slavery and the Civil War. And freed slaves had the added advantage of being men (at least the ones we have seen so far are all men). Their basic value, as human machines, was clear because they had the strength to handle jobs that required strength. There was little or no "virtue rules" attached to men, as there were women. What is Eva's value in a place like that? Perhaps she will prove to have an exceptional business mind, and raise herself to the role of running a casino (either out front of if need be, behind the scenes). But the odds are stacked against her, for no fault of her own, even in a place where people sought a fresh start.  

She proved that she was a capable health care provider, which is why she worked directly for Durant.  What is any woman's place in an area like that.  Except for the job of hooker every other job was set up for men, but women have found a place.  When Ruth showed up on the scene, her father was in charge of the church.  I think newspaper lady showed up with a man, and then just fell into staying and starting a newspaper.  Lilly Bell came with her husband.  So I don't think its really been who Eva is, her place/challenge is the same as with any woman in the area as far as I can see.  I think Eva is doing what she wants to do, and if she wanted to do something different she easily could.  She has the backing of Durant, and that would be enough.

 

I think if there was a strong "virtue rules" attached to women, I don't think Durant would have ever hired Eva to do anything on his behalf.  I also don't think Eva's husband would have agreed to marry her after she had been with Elam.

Edited September 22, 2014 by RealityGal

[TwoSocks]

Looks like well be getting the old Cullen back at least for a while. Don't think weve seen the last of Naomi though. That seems to be the direction the writers are going with Cullen.

[RealityGal]

If Eva actually likes what she's doing now, drinking and gambling, then I take no issue with her.  However, she always has this "woe is me and I'm bitter" look on her face like she feels she's been given a bad hand (pardon the pun).  Cheyenne is full of people who have had it rough and are trying to make a new start in life.  And who's to say Louise had it easy as a woman during those times?  Or the hotel lady?  Plus, they might not have had a Durant in their life to help them.  The point is, they overcame obstacles, and if Eva thinks her life sucks, then she needs stop looking like she's about to go to the gallows, and do something about it.  And stop blaming Cullen.

Oh, I don't think Eva likes what she is doing, but I don't think she would like anything.  To some degree, I think she may be trying to punish herself for what she did to Elam.  I hate her constantly blaming Cullen, but I do think that part of that is her trying to shift her own tremendous guilt.

[Ohwell]

To some degree, I think she may be trying to punish herself for what she did to Elam.

That's probably it, but she's just Debbie Downer now and it's grating.

[RealityGal]

That's probably it, but she's just Debbie Downer now and it's grating.

oh, I agree.  I don't care what she is thinking, I'm tired of her constant digs to Cullen about how Elam went after him.  Elam was a grown ass man, how can Cullen be responsible for whatever he did?  I'm hoping something gets her out of her funk.

[Ottis]

I think if there was a strong "virtue rules" attached to women, I don't think Durant would have ever hired Eva to do anything on his behalf.

 

 

If they were back east? Probably not. And if she hadn't basically saved his life? Probably not. But they aren't, and she did. And in any case, Durant has shown himself to be adaptable to anything if it means more money and getting the railroad done (which means money and fame). I doubt the rules of society mean much to him, unless they get him what he wants.

 

I also don't think Eva's husband would have agreed to marry her after she had been with Elam.

 

Is it a bad thing that I can't even remember who Eva's husband was? I had to think for a minute to remember O'Toole. I wondered about O'Toole marrying Eva, too, back when it happened. I chalked it up to 1) O'Toole didn't have a lot going on in his life, nor a lot of spouse options, and 2) given that, having a wife to do what he thinks wives should do was better than having no wife - even if the wife was one with Eva's past. In that case it is true that Eva's "virtue status" wasn't as important to O'Toole as it would have been somewhere else ... but O'Toole didn't want to marry Eva so she could start a business or they could move up in society. He wanted a wife for "wifely duties," including having a baby.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Ottis

[RealityGal]

If they were back east? Probably not. And if she hadn't basically saved his life? Probably not. But they aren't, and she did. And in any case, Durant has shown himself to be adaptable to anything if it means more money and getting the railroad done (which means money and fame). I doubt the rules of society mean much to him, unless they get him what he wants.

 

Is it a bad thing that I can't even remember who Eva's husband was? I had to think for a minute to remember O'Toole. I wondered about O'Toole marrying Eva, too, back when it happened. I chalked it up to 1) O'Toole didn't have a lot going on in his life, nor a lot of spouse options, and 2) given that, having a wife to do what he thinks wives should do was better than having no wife - even if the wife was one with Eva's past. In that case it is true that Eva's "virtue status" wasn't as important to O'Toole as it would have been somewhere else ... but O'Toole didn't want to marry Eva so she could start a business or they could move up in society. He wanted a wife for "wifely duties," including having a baby.

 

Thats the thing, they aren't back east.  If they were, one could reasonably argue that Eva has to accept a lower place in society, especially in terms of the job she has.  But they aren't, they are in the west.  Where no one seems to have that much going on, most residents of Cheyenne are men escaping warrants, or otherwise on the bottom rung of society.  There are still rules for women, but there don't seem to be a ton of them, or at least not as many as there would be say, in New York.  A woman owns the hotel, another one runs the newspaper, a third one runs the local church.  Given that time period, none of that would have been acceptable in the East, but given the fact that the super strict social rules don't seem to apply to the West, someone like Eva has been able to befriend and work for Durant.  So, she doesn't have to sit in a casino all day if she doesn't want to.  But I think she wants to.

[lonestar]

what did brigham young do with thor?