S03.E08: Into the Light

[chitowngirl]

With a rival threatening to divulge her secret for money, Penelope chooses the best path forward as her relationships and livelihood hang in the balance.

[mledawn]

I steamrolled thru the episodes and will have more upon a rewatch but I really liked how they had Penelope own up herself. That was a great change from the book. I’m going to miss these goofy characters in the next TWO YEARS.

[TheOtherOne]

That. Was. SO GOOD. And so much more satisfying and enjoyable than how it played out in the book. The fact that it was Penelope who had agency and took control over the narrative and revealing herself.  That it was her cleverness in pulling everything together and solving all their problems. The fact that Colin came to appreciate Whistledown was a part of her all along.

Lady Danbury in the chess game with the queen early on.

Penelope giving her sisters their ball and letting her mother take the credit.

Quote

 

"So I turn the floor over now to the scribe herself..."

Finch sneezes.

"Not him."

 

Quote

 

"You...are a genius!"

"I know!"

 

Danbury after Penelope's speech, revealing she suspected it was her and looked forward to the next edition.

I loved Benedict and Eloise bonding.

So so good.

[TheOtherOne]

Okay, the one thing I didn't love... After setting up such an unconventionally romantic love story for Francesca and Stirling in the first half of the season, they were clearly setting up seeds for discontent for Francesca in this half--the pensive look she gave Colin and Penelope outside the church in episode 6 when they looked happy, all the pensive looks in this one when Violet was going on about how she was wrong about love needing to be a certain way, that moment where she was unpleasantly surprised that he might want to dance, the reluctance over the wedding kiss....

I don't mind the gender swap for Michael/Michaela, but it does bum me out that they basically had Francesca fall in love at first sight for her

Spoiler

instead of vice versa. In the book, Francesca at least had a love match with her husband before she had to find a second love with his cousin. It was Michael who fell in love at first sight while Francesca was oblivious, and it was only after John was dead, she fell for his cousin. Why lessen Francesca and Stirling's relationship? Why not have her truly love him in their own unique way, Michaela fall in love at first sight, and Francesca only develop feelings for her after his death? Instead Michaela seemed to have no reaction and Francesca was doing googly-eyes mouth-agape. It's just kind of sad. It always seems so lazy when first relationships have to be diminished to make a second one seem stronger. Plus after seeming like the show was doing a nicely unconventional romance in how she and Stirling fell for each other, nope--love at first sight is "real" romance.

 

Edited June 13 by TheOtherOne

[TheOtherOne]

Also, out of everybody in this episode, Varley may be my favorite.

 

Edited June 13 by TheOtherOne

[RachelKM]

Lord love Phillipa and her bugs!  That was excellent and exquisite timing. 

I kinda loved everyone's reactions to Pen saying she could pay the £10,000. Like, girl, that is sort of a big deal. I did appreciate that she used her earnings it to help her family, both with the ball and the plausible basis for Portia's sudden income.

3 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

I don't mind the gender swap for Michael/Michaela, but it does bum me out that they basically had Francesca fall in love at first sight for her

I have very mixed feelings about the Francesca story shift.  But I mostly fall on this side of the line. I like John and I don't care for the undermining of what seemed to be a story in which people with a slightly different approach to interactions than the standard Ton dictates found each other and love. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Lord love Phillipa and her bugs!  That was excellent and exquisite timing. 

So much better than the Dalek opening at the other ball!
I loved Prudence Featherington telling her sister that her butterflies/bugs made her a genius. And I liked in general that the 2 Cindrella-wicked-stepsisters turned out to be not half bad.

[TheOtherOne]

Also, as ever, Mr. Finch, I'll miss you most of all.

[braziliangirl]

Amazing part II. And congratulations to Luke Newton. He totally won me over. 

And great job with Cressida storyline too. Because I did felt bad for her and wanted her to be friends with Pen and Eloise. I was rooting for her. 

Edited June 14 by braziliangirl

[scarynikki12]

Pen giving some of her money to her sisters for their ball was sweet and she saved Portia's ass in the process. The ball looked beautiful. See, Portia? This is how you take the colors, fashions, and general preferences and make them something truly beautiful.

Everyone called Pen having the next Lord Featherington* but I love how her sisters are both delighted with their daughters. Small bone to pick: tell us the baby names! We got little Philomena but nothing for the other two? If you're going to show me some adorable babies (thank you by the way) then I need to call them something!!!

I LOVE Eloise joining Francesca in Scotland and I hope we get to see some of it before everyone returns for Violet's masquerade ball. Poor Ben, sad to see his BSF (Best Sister Forever) go but I know we'll get more Swing Talk next season.

I'm so mad it's going to take two years before season 4.

*They didn't dwell on it but I love that Varley's forging skills are so good the inspector was totally unable to prove the documents were fake. The true hero of this show. 

[braziliangirl]

10 hours ago, TheOtherOne said:

Okay, the one thing I didn't love... After setting up such an unconventionally romantic love story for Francesca and Stirling in the first half of the season, they were clearly setting up seeds for discontent for Francesca in this half--the pensive look she gave Colin and Penelope outside the church in episode 6 when they looked happy, all the pensive looks in this one when Violet was going on about how she was wrong about love needing to be a certain way, that moment where she was unpleasantly surprised that he might want to dance, the reluctance over the wedding kiss....

I don't mind the gender swap for Michael/Michaela, but it does bum me out that they basically had Francesca fall in love at first sight for her

  Reveal spoiler

instead of vice versa. In the book, Francesca at least had a love match with her husband before she had to find a second love with his cousin. It was Michael who fell in love at first sight while Francesca was oblivious, and it was only after John was dead, she fell for his cousin. Why lessen Francesca and Stirling's relationship? Why not have her truly love him in their own unique way, Michaela fall in love at first sight, and Francesca only develop feelings for her after his death? Instead Michaela seemed to have no reaction and Francesca was doing googly-eyes mouth-agape. It's just kind of sad. It always seems so lazy when first relationships have to be diminished to make a second one seem stronger. Plus after seeming like the show was doing a nicely unconventional romance in how she and Stirling fell for each other, nope--love at first sight is "real" romance.

 

Yes, I hated this too. I loved John. 

[Thalia]

1 hour ago, braziliangirl said:

Yes, I hated this too. I loved John. 

Me too.   And they'd spent seven and 1/2 episodes telling/showing us that John and Francesca had an instant connection and a quiet, but intense, romance.  His musical arrangement was such a romantic gesture.    I thought Violet's worries about the match were using Violet's maternal feeling as 

Spoiler

a foreshadowing of the fact that John would not live long and that Francesca would be devastated and have to rebuild her life.  

 But then Francesca kisses John and gets that "oh fuck" look on her face.  It disappointed me for both John and Francesca.  

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, Thalia said:

Me too.   And they'd spent seven and 1/2 episodes telling/showing us that John and Francesca had an instant connection and a quiet, but intense, romance.  His musical arrangement was such a romantic gesture.    I thought Violet's worries about the match were using Violet's maternal feeling as 

  Reveal spoiler

a foreshadowing of the fact that John would not live long and that Francesca would be devastated and have to rebuild her life.  

 But then Francesca kisses John and gets that "oh fuck" look on her face.  It disappointed me for both John and Francesca.  

That was the only thing that disappointed me. 

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I kinda loved everyone's reactions to Pen saying she could pay the £10,000. Like, girl, that is sort of a big deal.

So big that it would be impossible IRL - £10000 in 1815 would be over 743 000 today.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Pen giving some of her money to her sisters for their ball was sweet and she saved Portia's ass in the process. 

I hope Pen stops to preserve her money under the floor (what if there was a fire?) and puts them in a bank or, better still, invests them (but not in one object). 

[KatWay]

I agree with everyone, re:Michaela. I don't mind the genderswap in theory though it means Francesca's storyline will have to be completely different from the book, but I HATED that they are basically diminishing the John/Francesca connection. They were so cute in the first half and lovely representation that love can look different. Only to go, well actually Francesca isn't into him she's into his cousin. Who asked for that. I've always hated love triangles with related parties, it's gross (I would have hated it too with a male Michael). Is Francesca going to make googly eyes at her husband's cousin all of next season? Yikes.

[quarks]

Well, this was delightfully fun. 

Highlights:

1. Queen Charlotte: "Not him."

2. Penelope apologizing and explaining herself.

3. Philippa saving the moment with CGI butterflies.

4. Both Colin and Penelope becoming writers.

5. That talk between Portia and Penelope.

6. Eloise gets to leave London and travel a bit!

7. Lady Danbury and Lady Violet Friends For Life.

8. That scene between Colin and Cressida - and Cressida pointing out to Colin that he's jealous. Somebody had to.

9.  And aww, Philippa is happy to have a daughter and wants her daughter to grow up to be a writer.

Questions:

1. I get that they probably wanted to reach India before Kate went into labor, and, hey, Francesca didn't show up to some of the other family weddings, but still, Anthony and Kate leaving for India before Francesca's wedding? Really, Netflix? 

2. I also get that real butterflies would have been too expensive and difficult to work with (and possibly illegal), and that this show uses CGI very heavily as it is, but as much as I enjoyed the butterflies is it honestly too much for me to ask that Shondaland invest in better rendering software? Tell Netflix to give you access to whatever Dreamworks Animation is using these days, because that was awful and threw me out of what was otherwise a lovely moment. 

3. What on earth did that one poor debutante do to deserve a life with Lord Cho, a lord who in three seasons has not exactly been the marrying type?

(I know the marriage came up in earlier episodes, but they briefly appeared in this episode which made me remember this question. And yes, I will give Cho a nod for saying that he disliked Cressida but admired Whistledown's writing in earlier episodes, but....he's also spent two and a half seasons making anti-marriage comments and making more than one unkind statement, so....good luck, debutante!)

4. I'm kinda surprised that after going to all that effort to show us the context for Cressida's behavior, and even make us (ok, me) feel sorry for her, the show did.....kinda nothing for her other than send her to Wales?

I mean, I get it - she took credit for Penelope's work, tried to trick the Queen, and then tried to blackmail Penelope. Not great! But she also had her moments with Eloise, and was insightful enough to pick up on Colin's jealousy, AND she had the courage to wear those sleeves AND those hats, so....Good luck in Wales, Cressida. You were mostly a not-great person, but good luck in Wales.

Bad thing:

1. Penelope, you do not just leave a huge pile of money under the floorboards like that. TAKE THE CASH TO YOUR NEW HOUSE seriously what was that?

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

4. I'm kinda surprised that after going to all that effort to show us the context for Cressida's behavior, and even make us (ok, me) feel sorry for her, the show did.....kinda nothing for her other than send her to Wales?

I mean, I get it - she took credit for Penelope's work, tried to trick the Queen, and then tried to blackmail Penelope. Not great! But she also had her moments with Eloise, and was insightful enough to pick up on Colin's jealousy, AND she had the courage to wear those sleeves AND those hats, so....Good luck in Wales, Cressida. You were mostly a not-great person, but good luck in Wales.

You forget that as lay Whistledon she (or rather her mother) smeared Bridgertons. Although she wasn't wrong by hinting why they had married in haste, it was only a guess. And claiming that all Briudgertons weren't such, was pure defamation. Before all, she misused her position as Eloise's friend. 

A person can have understandable motives for her bad behavior and she can sometimes even be friendly and do some good things, especially when it doesn't cost her anything - BUT her true character and values are shown when she has to make an important decision where she must chose between two things and can't have both. 

Cressida's earlier actions could perhaps have forgiven but she failed in her final test by answering to Colin's plea for mercy and even demanded two times more money.

As she said, she was used to trust only in herself. But the only way for her to have avoid for sending Wales would have been to get allies. 

[Llywela]

59 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

You forget that as lay Whistledon she (or rather her mother) smeared Bridgertons. Although she wasn't wrong by hinting why they had married in haste, it was only a guess. And claiming that all Briudgertons weren't such, was pure defamation. Before all, she misused her position as Eloise's friend. 

A person can have understandable motives for her bad behavior and she can sometimes even be friendly and do some good things, especially when it doesn't cost her anything - BUT her true character and values are shown when she has to make an important decision where she must chose between two things and can't have both. 

Cressida's earlier actions could perhaps have forgiven but she failed in her final test by answering to Colin's plea for mercy and even demanded two times more money.

As she said, she was used to trust only in herself. But the only way for her to have avoid for sending Wales would have been to get allies. 

I agree, and find Cressida's story this season to be rather tragic. She tried, but in the end she couldn't escape who she was, the person she had been raised to be. Her mother tried to support her, but also couldn't escape who she was or the situation she found her family in. Neither was able to grow beyond the confines of the life they knew. Ultimately, Cressida was completely trapped by her circumstances, and her upbringing did not provide her with any of the tools that might have enabled her to at least try to find a genuine way out. She was entirely at fault for the predicament she ended up in, but her situation was nonetheless tragic.

Especially since at the moment Cressida needed a friend most - when she was telling Eloise about the awful old man her parents wanted her to marry and asked for her help in evading the match - Eloise was too distracted to even listen, and just walked away and left her all alone with her woes. No wonder she felt she had to save herself and couldn't rely on anyone else to help her. Unfortunately, she wasn't in any way equipped to succeed and so ended up making everything worse. There were no good outcomes for Cressida, outside of perhaps snagging Lord Debling, for whom she'd have been perfect. Unfortunately, Penelope rather unwittingly ruined her chances there.

Meanwhile Penelope, after all the damage she has caused as Lady Whistledown, being a lead character and therefore touched with stardust, ended up with the picture perfect fairytale happy ending - right up to giving birth to the first son of the next generation, so that her child out of all the Featherington grandchildren is the one that will inherit the title. You know, as the cherry on the cake of her already happy ending. God forbid anyone outside the Bridgerton clan be allowed to have anything good!

Edited June 14 by Llywela

[Harvey]

6 hours ago, quarks said:

4. I'm kinda surprised that after going to all that effort to show us the context for Cressida's behavior, and even make us (ok, me) feel sorry for her, the show did.....kinda nothing for her other than send her to Wales?

I think it is setup for season 4, where it is necessary for her to be on bad terms with the Bridgertons. That is why the friendship with Eloise had to end.

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, Harvey said:

I think it is setup for season 4, where it is necessary for her to be on bad terms with the Bridgertons. That is why the friendship with Eloise had to end.

I don't think we have seen the last of Cressida. 

[shapeshifter]

Great posts upthread, and I agree that this seems to be the origin story for Cressida to become something like Cruella de Vil. 
Will her heart grow 3 sizes or will she disappear in a poof of her own making?
Or both?
Stay tuned, Dear Readers Viewers…

[Artsda]

The bugs being butterflies was funny. 

Anthony couldn't stay for his sister's wedding like 2 days later? The lack of keeping characters throughout takes away the strong family dynamic. 

Penelope getting no fall out at all after all she's said and done seems cop out. 

 

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Anthony couldn't stay for his sister's wedding like 2 days later? The lack of keeping characters throughout takes away the strong family dynamic. 

I guess converting the books into a live-action medium requires sweeping a lot of relevant characters off the stage to serve scene blocking?
IDK. Would it have been better to show the others in the background dancing and just not given them speaking parts?

 

10 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Penelope getting no fall out at all after all she's said and done seems cop out. 

Pen used the money she made from her writing to essentially buy herself out of trouble, which is kind of cool WRT gender roles and norms then and now. 

But would it have helped to have a couple of throwaway lines from some Bridgertons about how it had been kind of cool to be talked about in the Scandal Sheet???
Probably not.

Edited June 14 by shapeshifter

[libgirl2]

Thinking about Francesca and John.... sorry about the double spoiler! 

Spoiler

I have no issue with them turning Michael into Michaela but I would rather 

Spoiler

They have a  happy marriage but he passes away. Michaela shows up and Francesca develops feelings for her and so on. To have had her practically recoil from John was very disappointing. She was so into him. And all of a sudden she is taken with a woman. Where there no other women in the ton she might have been attracted to at one time? 

 

Edited June 14 by libgirl2

[quarks]

4 hours ago, Llywela said:

Meanwhile Penelope, after all the damage she has caused as Lady Whistledown, being a lead character and therefore touched with stardust, ended up with the picture perfect fairytale happy ending - right up to giving birth to the first son of the next generation, so that her child out of all the Featherington grandchildren is the one that will inherit the title. You know, as the cherry on the cake of her already happy ending. God forbid anyone outside the Bridgerton clan be allowed to have anything good!

 

Well, in all fairness, we also have the Mondriches.

Back in season one, Will Mondrich deliberately threw his final fight - a decision that ended up benefiting him financially, but which also led directly to the death of Lord Featherington Number One. That led to the introduction of Lord Featherington Two, who proceeded to scam several members of the Ton - including, apparently, the Cowpers. 

Will Mondrich isn't directly responsible for the scamming, of course, and he made up for at least some of this by pointing out that Lord Featherington Two was not overly honorable. But still, we have someone who did something ethically questionable back in the first season, who was rewarded for this in the second season with a successful business, and this season with getting more or less elevated to the nobility, without, as he himself pointed out, doing anything to earn this.

Well, assuming that he and Alice haven't secretly formed an alliance with the Daleks, using that to climb the ladder of society. I feel the jury is still out on that and we may need some clarifications in future seasons. 

[tennisgurl]

That was overall a very satisfying ending for the season, even if things did wrap up a little too neatly with Penelope outing herself as Whistledown with the queens approval. I am guessing we will explore more fallout in the future, unless Penelope and Colin disappear like every other main couple does after their season ends or we spend all of next season in Scotland. I do think that this was the best way to play it, now there are no secrets without the family, Penelope can cover up her moms dubious funds, and the best way to beat a blackmailer is to make sure everyone already knows about the thing they're trying to blackmail you about. Its certainly going to be interesting seeing how the next seasons play out now that Penelope is writing under her own name, I imagine that people will be reacting very differently to her. 

I loved everyone's "damn girl" reactions to finding out how loaded Penelope is. I also really came around to her and Colin by the end of the show, even if Anthony and Kate continue to be my favorite couple. I am glad that they cleared the air about Penelope lying about her writing and Colin being jealous, 

Benedict and Eloise bonding is always nice, they have such a special bond as the two most adventurous "bohemian" members of the family. I am also relived that Penelope and Eloise have fully made up, them not being friends was too sad. 

Cressida might have ended up staying Cressida, but I do feel bad for her and understand her more. She's the person she was raised to be and while she flirted with being something else when she was friends with Eloise, she fell back into her old habits when she lost her support. I really wish that Eloise had shown her some more sympathy about her situation instead of getting pulled into her own stuff, then things probably could have gone differently. 

The one thing I really disliked was how things were handled with John, Francesca, and John's cousin Michaela. I really loved them together, I thought their quiet, sweet, but uniquely passionate romance was a great contrast to the more dramatic enemies to lovers and highly visible passion of the other couples, but I guess they felt like people wouldn't be interested in two cute introverts being in love. I really hate the idea of spending next season watching Francesca making heart eyes at her husbands cousin instead of being in love with him, both John and Francesca deserve better than such a crappy end to their love story.

At least they'll be safe from the Daleks in the Highlands, too many mountains for them to attack!

Edited June 14 by tennisgurl

[libgirl2]

37 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The one thing I really disliked was how things were handled with John, Francesca, and John's cousin Michaela. I really loved them together, I thought their quiet, sweet, but uniquely passionate romance was a great contrast to the more dramatic enemies to lovers and highly visible passion of the other couples, but I guess they felt like people wouldn't be interested in two cute introverts being in love. I really hate the idea of spending next season watching Francesca making heart eyes at her husbands cousin instead of being in love with him, both John and Francesca deserve better than such a crappy end to their love story.

At least they'll be safe from the Daleks in the Highlands, too many mountains for them to attack!

Not every couple falls in love surrounded by drama and intrigue. It was nice to see a couple "normally" fall in love. Like you, I'm not sure I want to see that either and might FF those scenes. They were done a disservice and that was my only real complaint of the season. And not only did they deserve better, so did we. 

[Thalia]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:29 AM, Artsda said:

Anthony couldn't stay for his sister's wedding like 2 days later? The lack of keeping characters throughout takes away the strong family dynamic. 

This is why I'll always be peeved at Rege-Jean Page for refusing to do even one damn cameo per season.  While the love stories are central to the story, the Bridgertons are family.  I don't even remember seeing Daphne this season, which makes sense because I thought her inclusion in season 2 without Simon was awkward.  

And I enjoyed seeing a happy Anthony and Kate this time.  And will happily spend time with Colin and Penelope in season 4.  

On 6/14/2024 at 1:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

Benedict and Eloise bonding is always nice, they have such a special bond as the two most adventurous "bohemian" members of the family. [cut]

Cressida might have ended up staying Cressida, but I do feel bad for her and understand her more. [cut]

I really hate the idea of spending next season watching Francesca making heart eyes at her husbands cousin instead of being in love with him [cut]

 

I am not sure they can go much longer without giving us Eloise's story given the age of Claudia Jessie.  (Don't get me wrong, she was luminous this season. Like Penelope she was dressed in much more appealing outfits).  Plus the end of this season just made it seem that they were tying together Eloise and Benedict, and Eloise and Francesca's fates together. 

On 6/14/2024 at 1:47 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am also relived that Penelope and Eloise have fully made up, them not being friends was too sad. 

Honestly, my favorite part of the entire season might have been watching Eloise and Penelope hanging out on the couch, falling back easily into their old routine.  Peloise Forever! 

 

Edited June 16 by Thalia

[Snazzy Daisy]

A rushed finale. It’s unfortunate that Colin and Penelope don’t have the chance to be the memorable part of this finale.

The Michaela’s reveal and twist steal all the thunder. Could this be a hint that Francesca is next?

But then there’s a mention of masquerade ball. This might be a hint that it’s Benedict’s turn next season. Obviously the show doesn’t know what to do with him this season. The “self-exploration” arc is rather tasteless and it doesn’t make Benedict more interesting.

Francesca or Benedict - both don’t excite me TBH. 😣

S03 couldn’t live up to S02. This is my least favorite season among all.

 

[Harvey]

11 hours ago, Thalia said:

.Based on the way episode 8 played out my suspicion is that the show will feature three couples/books.  (I will try and be cryptic for non-book readers.)  Book 3, Benedict's story with a female parter   Book 5, Eloise and her her male book partner.   Book 6, Francesca and Michaela, with Michaela substituted for Michael Stirling.   

! 

 

The showrunner confirmed in a recent interview that they are not doing this, next season will focus on just 1 book. 

Shonda also said many times she intends to do 8 seasons for the 8 siblings. 

[Roseanna]

21 hours ago, Llywela said:

I agree, and find Cressida's story this season to be rather tragic. She tried, but in the end she couldn't escape who she was, the person she had been raised to be. Her mother tried to support her, but also couldn't escape who she was or the situation she found her family in. Neither was able to grow beyond the confines of the life they knew. Ultimately, Cressida was completely trapped by her circumstances, and her upbringing did not provide her with any of the tools that might have enabled her to at least try to find a genuine way out. She was entirely at fault for the predicament she ended up in, but her situation was nonetheless tragic.

Especially since at the moment Cressida needed a friend most - when she was telling Eloise about the awful old man her parents wanted her to marry and asked for her help in evading the match - Eloise was too distracted to even listen, and just walked away and left her all alone with her woes. No wonder she felt she had to save herself and couldn't rely on anyone else to help her. Unfortunately, she wasn't in any way equipped to succeed and so ended up making everything worse. There were no good outcomes for Cressida, outside of perhaps snagging Lord Debling, for whom she'd have been perfect. Unfortunately, Penelope rather unwittingly ruined her chances there.

Meanwhile Penelope, after all the damage she has caused as Lady Whistledown, being a lead character and therefore touched with stardust, ended up with the picture perfect fairytale happy ending - right up to giving birth to the first son of the next generation, so that her child out of all the Featherington grandchildren is the one that will inherit the title. You know, as the cherry on the cake of her already happy ending. God forbid anyone outside the Bridgerton clan be allowed to have anything good!

It's a good analysis about Cressida, but it's based on the assumption that a person is *wholly* a product of circumstances and can't make choices independently. 

I have severely criticized Pen, but she had much worse starting points than Cressida: she was no beauty and had no dowry and her mom and almost everybody else belittled, ridiculed or ignored her. True, unlike Cressida, she had a talent of writing, but it took a lot of courage to use her skills publicly.  Power went to her head and she did some bad things.

No doubt being loved by Colin and him seeing her beautiful gave her assertiveness, but even then she kept the big part of her identity secret although Eloise warned that Colin would eventually find out it. But finally she did the right thing and she did it all herself, even when she wasn't sure about the consequences. She was even ready to annulment in order to save  Colin and his family.

[Conotocarious]

I think Benedict’s season will be next because of the voiceover about looking to the future while the camera was lingering on Benedict, having just had the masquerade ball discussion with Eloise. I feel pretty confident about this. And I think they really really need to get his season done because his “journey” this season was just more treading water as he sleeps with everything that moves. They have no idea what to do with him, just give him his HEA already, jeez.

I mean, he just discovered his freedom THIS year? (or so he tells Tilley). WTH was he doing the other two seasons? He’s always gallivanted around doing whatever he pleases. I felt actual sympathy for Tilley in that scene and I was generally bored to tears by the entire wasted subplot.

[libgirl2]

52 minutes ago, Conotocarious said:

I think Benedict’s season will be next because of the voiceover about looking to the future while the camera was lingering on Benedict, having just had the masquerade ball discussion with Eloise. I feel pretty confident about this. And I think they really really need to get his season done because his “journey” this season was just more treading water as he sleeps with everything that moves. They have no idea what to do with him, just give him his HEA already, jeez.

I mean, he just discovered his freedom THIS year? (or so he tells Tilley). WTH was he doing the other two seasons? He’s always gallivanted around doing whatever he pleases. I felt actual sympathy for Tilley in that scene and I was generally bored to tears by the entire wasted subplot.

I agree... please just 

Spoiler

bring on Sophie. It was all I kept thinking about! 

 

[maddie965]

On 6/13/2024 at 12:27 PM, TheOtherOne said:

Okay, the one thing I didn't love... After setting up such an unconventionally romantic love story for Francesca and Stirling in the first half of the season, they were clearly setting up seeds for discontent for Francesca in this half--the pensive look she gave Colin and Penelope outside the church in episode 6 when they looked happy, all the pensive looks in this one when Violet was going on about how she was wrong about love needing to be a certain way, that moment where she was unpleasantly surprised that he might want to dance, the reluctance over the wedding kiss....

I don't mind the gender swap for Michael/Michaela, but it does bum me out that they basically had Francesca fall in love at first sight for her

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instead of vice versa. In the book, Francesca at least had a love match with her husband before she had to find a second love with his cousin. It was Michael who fell in love at first sight while Francesca was oblivious, and it was only after John was dead, she fell for his cousin. Why lessen Francesca and Stirling's relationship? Why not have her truly love him in their own unique way, Michaela fall in love at first sight, and Francesca only develop feelings for her after his death? Instead Michaela seemed to have no reaction and Francesca was doing googly-eyes mouth-agape. It's just kind of sad. It always seems so lazy when first relationships have to be diminished to make a second one seem stronger. Plus after seeming like the show was doing a nicely unconventional romance in how she and Stirling fell for each other, nope--love at first sight is "real" romance.

 

This. Why did they have to go and blemish the most original and sweet love story of the show? I mean, they could have even introduced Michaela and showed a little glimpse of interest from Francesca. She could be totally in love with John, but a little intrigued by his cousin. Now that might work. 

As for Penelope, as much as I was rooting for her, I wish they had showed some real regret there. And some recognition that words can really hurt people. She could have written letters to the people she hurt the most - Marina would be the first - telling them how sorry she was. And Collin should be more reticent in forgiving her, instead of giving this overwrought speech about how brave she was. Everything about that fight was too rushed and the ending, although beautiful, was not earned.

Still, we had butterflies. That was perfection.

 

[quarks]

I'm also fairly confident that Benedict's season is next. Not just because of that comment about the masquerade ball, but because they did drop various hints this season that he is ready to do more: Anthony points out that Benedict did a great job running the estate; Colin clearly now finds Benedict trustworthy; there was that moment where Benedict was close to calling himself an artist again before backing away from that - hello, upcoming plot point!; he took on a somewhat more older brother/parental role after Anthony left, indicating that he's ready for that, too; and of course Benedict now recognizes that he's not entirely straight. He's ready.

[violet and green]

Three seasons in, and I still can't tell Benedict apart from Anthony, unless the one with the wife whose story was told in season 2 is there with his wife. Then I am able to say, oh that's Anthony and whatsername (and hope they go away again).

[maddie965]

I don't think that's in the books, but do you think they might make Benedict totally gay (or bi), and pair him with a very handsome guy? Now that would be a great story to tell. Would Violet approve?

[Conotocarious]

7 hours ago, violet and green said:

Three seasons in, and I still can't tell Benedict apart from Anthony, unless the one with the wife whose story was told in season 2 is there with his wife. Then I am able to say, oh that's Anthony and whatsername (and hope they go away again).

Well, Benedict looks the oldest, IMO.

[quarks]

6 hours ago, maddie965 said:

I don't think that's in the books, but do you think they might make Benedict totally gay (or bi), and pair him with a very handsome guy? Now that would be a great story to tell. Would Violet approve?

I have no idea what gender his endgame love interest will be, but Benedict is bisexual/pansexual, not gay.  We've seen him enjoy sex with both men and women. So he's bisexual/pansexual, not gay. 

The showrunner and Shondaland have confirmed this, using the term pansexual - that is, noting that for Benedict, gender doesn't really matter. For him, the key is connection.

[Conotocarious]

49 minutes ago, quarks said:

I have no idea what gender his endgame love interest will be, but Benedict is bisexual/pansexual, not gay.  We've seen him enjoy sex with both men and women. So he's bisexual/pansexual, not gay. 

The showrunner and Shondaland have confirmed this, using the term pansexual - that is, noting that for Benedict, gender doesn't really matter. For him, the key is connection.

He even says as much to Lady Tilley, that it could have been a Paul or a Patricia. Doesn’t matter.

[Agalea Charis]

Colin and Penelope- Nicola Coughlan is a smoke and she really is a talented performer. Penelope really spent a whole episode on the verge of hyperventilating. That being said, something about the Colin and Penelope romance feels rushed. I would have preferred a Benedict season while Colin and Penelope took over the B-plot where Colin realizes his feelings for Penelope. There could have been more pining from him rather than another season of Penelope mooning over him. Then in Season Four, these two took over the main plot. The audience was told rather than shown their deep friendship. Penelope's perpetual unrequited crush was not compelling. The wedding was beautiful. Luke Newton is a few years older than me and he has such a baby face and sometimes came across like high schoolers going to the dance. I liked how Colin defended her to her mother. I understand that Colin has a right to be upset with Penelope over what she's written about him and his family but I didn't expect the “entrapment” line. I wish his feelings would have been better explored other than his supposed jealousy. I felt we got character development with Simon and Anthony but Colin was underdeveloped. This was Penelope's season. Not Colin and Penelope’s. Colin, though he is a Bridgerton, the season felt lopsided to Penelope. None of his plots came full circle. Colin and Penelope are cute and fun to watch but last season set the bar high in terms of that lightning in a bottle. 

Anthony and Kate- These two actors really sell this relationship no matter what they are given. They truly make a handsome pairing. Simone Ashley is otherworldly stunning and Disney should invent an original princess movie for her to star in. Jonathan Bailey is such a captivating actor with a lot of range. It really shows that these two actors are committed to these characters. I would watch an entire spin off of Anthony and Kate as they grow their family. They steal every scene they are in. They have the best chemistry on this show. I love seeing Anthony completely obsessed with his wife and Kate handling her duties as Viscountess. It is nice to see them more relaxed. But it is strange that these two duty bound individuals would be in and out of their household so regularly. They have responsibilities. It's very out of character. Multiple honeymoons and now a very long voyage to India. While it is wonderful they have incorporated Kate's background into the show, a pregnant woman who is showing, traveling that great a distance does not sound like a good plan. There's no Suez Canal yet. It was such a weird way to explain why the actors weren't in the last episode. They could have just gone to have the baby at Aubrey Hall, then in the finale, Violet mentions their travels in India. The babies of all the Featherington sisters were shown but for some reason Anthony and Kate's was not, the Bridgerton heir, even. On a show called Bridgerton. Everyone else gets onscreen weddings and babies but not Anthony and Kate. It was also odd that the head of the household missed his own sister's wedding considering he is also a father figure. Weird. Speaking of Violet, she seems absolutely happy with Anthony's choice of wife. 

John and Francesca- I have no strong opinions about these two. But I do like how the show highlights different kinds of love. Not every romance needs dramatic confessions. I did like how Violet saw how Francesca reacted to John telling the boots story. Her scenes with her children are the best. But it was such whiplash when she began questioning it. I am not sure how they are going to work in the Michaela character as I am aware of the source material. I hope they don't go down the route of an emotional affair as that would be such a disservice to the quiet love story they spent time building on. It would be very discontinuous to have Francesca have an understated romance to instantly fall in love/lust with her husband's cousin. 

The Featheringtons- This would have been the season to have the cousin husband come on the show instead of last season where it hijacked a lot of screen time. That storyline, as silly as it was, would have made more sense this season as Penelope's family was a central focus. The sisters are funny and the usage of them this season makes more sense. Their housekeeper remains the best part of that family. 

Eloise- With a lot of characters in this show, their motivations and actions are understandable even if they handle them poorly. Eloise isn't my favorite character but I completely understand her wanting to put up boundaries when came to Penelope. I appreciated how even though she didn't want to be friends with her, she wasn't catty towards her. Eloise didn't seem to have a storyline this season other than to give ultimatums. She is a lot of talk but joining Francesca in Scotland will be interesting for her.

Benedict- It's almost as if the show didn't know what to do with him but needed to be kept around because he's waiting in the wings for his love story. I didn't care for his relationship with the blonde lady with the 1940's hairstyle or his throuple situation. I am not sure what it added to the story. Benedict is best when interacting with the family. The actor has great chemistry with all the Bridgertons. His storylines this season just felt contrived and didn't go anywhere. It makes the most sense for his season to be next.

Lady Whistledown- The back and forth blackmailing and crisis over this identity got tedious. Having Penelope actually confess this to Colin would have been worth the payoff. It didn't seem believable that the Queen would devote so much time and energy into uncovering the identity to then shrug it off so easily. Cressida was way overused. That time could have been spent developing the friendship of Colin and Penelope. It would have been great to see flashbacks to them meeting for the first time. It's weird to have gotten Simon flashbacks in the first season, but none for Kate or Penelope in the following seasons. Cressida should have been shipped off with Lord Debling who randomly disappeared. Colin's Whistledown discovery might have worked better as the cliffhanger for the split season. While neither are my favorite characters, the show's treatment of Penelope getting the fairytale ending after spreading gossip about the Ton and Cressida's vilification assuming that identity, was an unusual juxtaposition. I didn't buy Penelope feeling bad about Whistledown. I didn't buy the Queen's response to that. It really seemed as if Penelope was only upset about getting caught, not the terrible gossip she spread around. Other than her husband and best friend being upset with her, Penelope faced no real consequences for her actions. It took away from the story. 

Other side plots- This show has a lot of side stories. I like the older ladies of the show such as Charlotte, Lady Violet, and Lady Danbury. This might be an unpopular opinion but I didn't care too much for the Mondrich family story or Lady Danbury's brother. The actors are fine but these stories don't advance the plot. It would have been great to get more Penelope and Lady Danbury scenes or more of Violet with her children. Lady Danbury has great one liners and I do like her scenes with Violet. The Bridgerton family scenes are some of the better parts of the show. Daphne and Simon weren't even mentioned with a throw away line which disconnects with the closeness of this family.

Overall, this season had some good moments despite the pacing being clunky at times. It felt hurried. It's such a shame that the actors went on a giant press tour, hyping up the show, when the finished product was a little lackluster. They all did well in their roles; it just seemed like they were promoting a different show. The network advertised something that did not come to fruition. The characters just didn't feel like themselves. The main love story just didn't feel earned in a way the two before it did, the first season sans that one episode the writers decided to include. On a shallow note, the Regency Era costumes flatter no one even if the dresses are beautiful in themselves. Everyone looks pregnant. I wonder if the great Julie Andrews will return. A two year wait for the next season... Game of Thrones, a show with a bigger scale with more episodes didn't even take that long. 

Season Two remains the far superior season out of the three. 

[JenMD]

I went in to this season with as open mind as possible but Luke Newton still does nothing for me as Colin, even with the glow up.   I adore Nicola and probably care more about Penelope than I would otherwise.  Together, they're just kind of there; I can't say I bought their whole romance as presented.  One of those "different strokes" things.  I mean, I'm happy they're happy, on to the next one.  Penelope looked fabulous this season, lovely job by the  hair and costume folks (although, her hair being down so much was giving me odd 1940s vibes, which I just read was intentional, so good job there).

Lovely seeing Violet getting a new romance of her own, so cute to see her all flustered.  And dancing! 

Got to throw some love to Cressida's hair and costumes because I LOVED them.  Sure they were wackadoodle, but dang if her maid and Madam Delacroix don't deserve raises.  I think my favorite was the red dress with her hair in round discs dripping in crystals.  She was very Regency Barbie Goes To the Met Gala all season and I was here for it.   I admit to being surprised that I felt bad for her; her home life is terrible.  Sure, she's old enough to have to take responsibility for her bad decisions but I though the show did a pretty good job showing us her desperation.  I'm actually interested to see how she comes back, cause you know she will.

Regarding Daphne, the showrunner said in an article that the writers couldn't figure out how to mention her absence without it coming off sounding wonky so they decided to just not mention her.  Not the most creative choice, imo.  But then again, if I had a dollar for every time I wished a show included "just one sentence" to explain something, I'd have a lot of dollars.

Speaking of questionable writing decisions: Anthony and Kate, admittedly my faves, got short shrift, again, imo.  I know there were scheduling and production considerations, and  it's "not their season", etc, however, I can't help but question the creativity, or lack thereof, in how the writers chose to deal with those challenges.  I mean, I loved seeing them on screen and Simone and Jonny were fantastic, but Anthony missing his sister's wedding because he wanted to take his wife to India to give birth will never make sense to me.  It's six months each way on a merchant ship, not two weeks on Royal Caribbean.  Nice thing, I guess, about the epilogue being about a year in the future is they can, theoretically, be on their way home. 

6 hours ago, Agalea Charis said:

They could have just gone to have the baby at Aubrey Hall, then in the finale, Violet mentions their travels in India. The babies of all the Featherington sisters were shown but for some reason Anthony and Kate's was not, the Bridgerton heir, even. On a show called Bridgerton. Everyone else gets onscreen weddings and babies but not Anthony and Kate. It was also odd that the head of the household missed his own sister's wedding considering he is also a father figure.

I didn't want to quote the whole thing, but yes, all of this.

Overall, I thought the season was beautiful, it just looks stunning, from the locations to the people.  And there are so many people!  It's really wild to me how many extras there are and they all get these elaborate outfits.  Kudos to the show for that. And now we wait for more.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I came into the season knowing that it would not likely make me happy because of my disdain for Whistledown and my knowledge that it would likely end with the happiest of outcomes for Pen and no real comeuppance or negative consequences for her sins as Whistledown. I didn't exactly need to be Nostradamus to get there, but I think I'm still surprised at how easy she got off.

Cressida as fake Whistledown probably absorbed more negative consequences than Pen. No one shunned Pen for being Whistledown for long. Colin and Lady F, were mad at her for less than an episode each and then were all "You're the most wonderful, special person." She immediately got absolution from the Queen, and everything else she could ever have wanted. She has her man, her best friend, the Bridgerton name, public credit with apparently no blame, her money, the admiration of her mama and her sisters, and she's mother to the heir of the Featherington estate. Yes, each of our heroes and heroines get a HEA by genre convention, but it seems like Pen's was less earned and her journey put her in a far better position than she could have hoped. 

it seems unlikely that anyone is going to take her to task for what she has done. The show wrote this off as Pen finding her voice and such. And it really seemed to focus on her cleverness, her vulnerability and all those sorts of things, and to overlook that she's essentially a sociopath. 

Yes, there were some perfunctory acknowledgements that LW hurt people, badly.

But the show tried really hard to gloss over the fact that Pen was a bully who publicly humiliated her family and the Bridgertons, not to mention countless others, on a regular basis for years. That there were numerous ways for Pen to find her voice, discover her power, etc. without being LW. 

I assume with the end of the LW persona, that likely means an end to the Julie Andrews voiceovers. If so, thank you for your work, Dame Andrews.

I am curious if a) Pen stopped being LW in the books as well and b) where her character goes from here. But maybe those questions/that discussion belongs more in the LW: FOF? thread with the appropriate spoiler tags.

In another area: I haven't read the books, and so I didn't pick up that Francesca was having a "thunderbolt" moment when she met Michaela until I saw some of the comments here. I may have been distracted by my searing disdain for LW.

I think Eloise is my favorite Bridgerton, but it sounds like we are not going to get her romance any time soon.

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

I am curious if a) Pen stopped being LW in the books as well and b) where her character goes from here. But maybe those questions/that discussion belongs more in the LW: FOF? thread with the appropriate spoiler tags.

 

 

I'll be heading off to the LW: FOF thread in a bit, but for now, spoiler tagging the answer to your question:

 

Spoiler

After the reveal - which plays out differently in the books - Pen does, indeed, stop being Lady Whistledown. Instead, she helps Colin edit his travel journals and starts writing a novel, and then pretty much vanishes from the later books, even ones where Colin makes an appearance.

 

[Roseanna]

13 hours ago, Agalea Charis said:

the show's treatment of Penelope getting the fairytale ending after spreading gossip about the Ton and Cressida's vilification assuming that identity, was an unusual juxtaposition. I didn't buy Penelope feeling bad about Whistledown. I didn't buy the Queen's response to that. It really seemed as if Penelope was only upset about getting caught, not the terrible gossip she spread around. Other than her husband and best friend being upset with her, Penelope faced no real consequences for her actions. It took away from the story. 

That.

The scene with Eloise in 2nd season showed that Pen wasn't at all sorry for her action towards her. She completely refused to listen how Eloise felt being betrayed by her friend.

More in the book thread.

[Kirsty]

This season was still fun to watch, but I didn't get the sugar-buzz from Penelope/Colin that I get from watching a good tropey romance. I attribute that to the fact that Colin is the dullest Bridgerton.

Coming into this season, I knew both that Colin lacked charisma and that he was under-written. Your leading man can maybe get away with one of those issues, but not with both. So I expected the writers to give Colin a personality glow-up the way the show gave him a physical glow-up. I expected them to give him tons of good material -- like flashbacks to his travels or to his friendship with Penelope over the years -- to fill in the gaps. But they never did.

In this episode, during his scene with Cressida, he has a monologue about himself and his loneliness, and then another about Penelope's invisibility in society. And I was like... Why has he never had scenes like this before? Why didn't we see this in Part One of the season?

I needed the show to sell him to me as the leading man in the first part of Season 3. But I don't believe the writers were aware of that necessity. I guess they thought we had already got to know him and love him (the way Penelope does) in the first two seasons.

What I needed in the first half of the season was to see what made him attractive and what made him tick, so I could see what Penelope is drawn to. Instead I saw him swaggering around in a slightly cringey way that was not attractive. In fact, the fandom seems to be split on whether winking Colin was supposed to be cringe-inducing or not! What a strange choice on the writers' part for their leading man.

I will say that Colin grew on me a little in the back half of the season. I believed that he and Penelope loved each other. And they got some lovely scenes together. But, unfortunately, he was too blank and vacant for too long for the romance to work for me the way Anthony/Kate did or the way Daphne/Simon did. My ranking of the seasons is Season 2, then Season 1, then Season 3, based purely on how well the main romance worked for me.

Edited June 17 by Kirsty

[Orcinus orca]

1 hour ago, Kirsty said:

But, unfortunately, he was too blank and vacant for too long for the romance to work for me the way Anthony/Kate did or the way Daphne/Simon did.

It's too bad the writers didn't allow Luke Newton's actual personality to be used in the series.  I have seen interviews and outtakes and he's much more animated.  Colin was a boring dud.

[nachomama]

I'm fully in love with Penelope (Nicola) not entirely on board with Colin. He's meh. Anthony still my favorite. Here's my question. How is Colin "knowledgeable" we know he's frequented brothels and his marvelous 3 some, however, as a self described "gentlemen" he doesn't go around deflowering virgins. He'd have to marry them...brothels don't give you virgins...where does a gentlemen aquire his knowledge if he's not a cad? And how are any of them actually skilled lovers? I'm old but wasn't alive in the regency period but generally werent' their wives actually not supposed to enjoy the procreation? If their women actually enjoyed it wouldn't the husbands have then suspected they weren't virginal? and I understand this is fiction and not reality.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, nachomama said:

I'm fully in love with Penelope (Nicola) not entirely on board with Colin. He's meh. Anthony still my favorite. Here's my question. How is Colin "knowledgeable" we know he's frequented brothels and his marvelous 3 some, however, as a self described "gentlemen" he doesn't go around deflowering virgins. He'd have to marry them...brothels don't give you virgins...where does a gentlemen aquire his knowledge if he's not a cad? And how are any of them actually skilled lovers? I'm old but wasn't alive in the regency period but generally werent' their wives actually not supposed to enjoy the procreation? If their women actually enjoyed it wouldn't the husbands have then suspected they weren't virginal? and I understand this is fiction and not reality.

In the vast majority of romance novels the heroes all know how to please a woman especially their lady love. How they acquire that knowledge is rarely ever dwelt upon. Romance is a fantasy after all, and most readers do not want to read unsatisfying scenes of intimacy. There are some romance novels where the couple does have bad sex at least in the beginning.

The idea that women were not supposed to enjoy intimacy with their husbands is mostly a myth. The reality of the Ton was that marriages were made for dynastic purposes, and love matches were rare. Sex between husband and wife was a duty, but that does not mean it had to be a burden. It all depended on the husband. Some men did assault their wives, others did not, and then some men really did enjoy sex with their wives and wanted their wives to enjoy it as well.