S04.E05: The Way You Make Me Steal

[AntFTW]

Quote

A power move backfires in spectacular fashion. A top veteran's losing streak puts their alliance in danger when an enemy gains control of the vote. Ex-lovers give in to their chemistry, but one party instantly regrets it.

Air date: May 1, 2024 on Paramount+

[Writing Wrongs]

I can't stand Kam and LeRoy and I'm tired of hearing about their kid.

I can do without the Laurel/Nicole soap opera as well.

This season sucks.

[AntFTW]

The Challenge DJ is the winner in this episode. Every track was perfect and had the perfect timing. I should send a nicely worded letter to BMP because that person deserves a raise.

I liked this episode. I didn't care for the daily challenge but I liked the episode overall.

 Brandon has the cutest little girl!!! 😭

Brad always hulks or muscles his way through challenges. He acts before he thinks.

Cara, Kam, Leroy and Brandon sat down for a chat to move past whatever conflicts in game play that they have. I'm not sure why Cara agreed to this if she was just going to dismiss any reason they gave as a "fake reason" for going against her. Cara says that Kam got what she wanted anyway so she shouldn't be mad at Cara. Cara stubbornly misses the point. The point isn't the result, but rather Kam asked a friend and ally to vote with her and that friend and ally didn't come through. The conflict is not in the result.

IMO, I'm not quite understanding the "game animosity" that Cara has toward Kam and Leroy. Kam didn't actually do anything (unless she did and it wasn't shown) to go against Cara. Kam didn't vote her in. As far as we saw, Kam didn't whip vote to throw Cara into elimination. Kam didn't actively do anything that jeopardizes Cara's game as far as I recall.

Laurel and Nicole.... (sigh)... whatever.

Cara is has power and is able to get her lick back. Leroy and Brandon go into elimination. Unlike Cara, they seemingly took it on the chin. I recognize that people process their emotions differently so I'll give some wiggle room for that.

I knew Brandon would lose. Everything about that elimination says Brandon would lose. Production follows the same formula to create a suspenseful and tense buildup.

[WInterfalls]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

IMO, I'm not quite understanding the "game animosity" that Cara has toward Kam and Leroy. Kam didn't actually do anything (unless she did and it wasn't shown) to go against Cara. Kam didn't vote her in. As far as we saw, Kam didn't whip vote to throw Cara into elimination. Kam didn't actively do anything that jeopardizes Cara's game as far as I recall.

All Cara did was play her own game. She never said Leroy's name or Kam's name and she never intended to. Kam was the one that pushed Jasmin and Brandon to go against Cara. Kam pushed Cara's name the same terrible offense that Ayanna had done to Kam. Kam wanted total control over Cara's vote or no Cara to go against. That was Kam's decision. I say this as some who likes both of them a lot but Kam started the war not Cara. 

[AntFTW]

17 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

All Cara did was play her own game. She never said Leroy's name or Kam's name and she never intended to. Kam was the one that pushed Jasmin and Brandon to go against Cara.

I just rewatched the last episode. I didn’t realize that she threw out Cara’s name in the previous episode. I missed that part so it threw me off as to how it got to this point.

17 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

Kam pushed Cara's name the same terrible offense that Ayanna had done to Kam. Kam wanted total control over Cara's vote or no Cara to go against. That was Kam's decision. I say this as some who likes both of them a lot but Kam started the war not Cara.

Kam may have overreacted to Cara not voting her way, but it did signal that Cara might not be playing or aligned with her… but that’s a good thing to me. Kam is willing to take a shot. I appreciate that. Cara’s willing to shoot back. I also appreciate that.

I just didn’t appreciate Cara whining about it.

Edited May 1 by AntFTW

[WInterfalls]

15 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I just rewatched the last episode. I didn’t realize that she threw out Cara’s name in the previous episode. I missed that part so it threw me off as to how it got to this point.

Kam may have overreacted to Cara not voting her way, but it did signal that Cara might not be playing or aligned with her… but that’s a good thing to me. Kam is willing to take a shot. I appreciate that. Cara’s willing to shoot back. I also appreciate that.

I just didn’t appreciate Cara whining about it.

Truthfully I think Kam was just looking for an excuse because Cara is strong and has a really good chance of winning the season. That's fine and I'm here for the drama. I would prefer for Kam to just admit that though instead of trying to make it seem like not voting for Rachel was some great betrayal. It feels a lot like Jay thinking Nurys had to vote his way every time during 39. 

I think Brandon and Leroy both knew they were going in before voting. Cara felt blindsided. She even asked Brandon before the vote and he lied to her. I think it's okay for her to be upset by that though it might have been a little much. 

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

Truthfully I think Kam was just looking for an excuse because Cara is strong and has a really good chance of winning the season. That's fine and I'm here for the drama. I would prefer for Kam to just admit that though instead of trying to make it seem like not voting for Rachel was some great betrayal.

Maybe… but I can’t read minds so I can only take her word for it for now. Kam has never really given me the impression that she’s scared of other “strong women” in finals. It’s not like Cara is unbeatable. She’s lost 7 finals.

I think Brandon and Jasmine were much more vocal that they’re not trying to have Cara in a final.

1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

It feels a lot like Jay thinking Nurys had to vote his way every time during 39.

Sure, but you’d think you’d vote together if you’re allied with someone… which Jay and Nurys were initially.

1 hour ago, WInterfalls said:

I think Brandon and Leroy both knew they were going in before voting. Cara felt blindsided. She even asked Brandon before the vote and he lied to her. I think it's okay for her to be upset by that though it might have been a little much.

I don’t blame her for voting Brandon and Leroy in. This is exactly how I would want her to respond, to play the game and throw them in elimination.

I do think Cara is trying to have it both ways and excusing her own behavior. Cara’s telling Kam she has no reason to be mad or upset for Cara playing her game, but Cara got upset with Jasmine and Brandon for them playing their game. That’s an unreasonable expectation from Cara that she gets to be upset, gets to pout about it, and tell everyone her feelings that she felt betrayed but Kam shouldn’t be mad about feeling betrayed by Cara. Also, Cara being dismissive about it saying Kam got what she wanted completely misses the point. If Brandon and Jasmine said “our vote didn’t even matter because you’re still in the game so you shouldn’t be even mad at us. This is pointless,” Cara wouldn’t like that. The betrayal was in their vote, not in the result.

If we’re allies, I do expect you to vote with me. That’s not an unreasonable thing to ask from an ally. If you don’t, that’s a red flag to me that we’re not allies like I thought we were.

*My Kam voice* : If you get to be mad about feeling betrayed by people you thought were allies, then so do I. I get to be mad that I trusted you to vote with me and you didn’t. I get to be mad that we’re allies and you chose prioritized a rival’s (Rachel’s) game over mine because you didn’t want to vote for her, and we’re supposed to be friends and allies.

Edited May 1 by AntFTW

[WInterfalls]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

Cara’s telling Kam she has no reason to be mad or upset for Cara playing her game, but Cara got upset with Jasmine and Brandon for them playing their game.

I think there is a pretty big distinction between between not saying Rachel's name even though she was going in regardless and people she trusts saying her name and putting Cara into elimination. I have no problem with Brandon or Jasmin making the move they did it's good tv and they should be trying to get out good players, but they can't act like it shouldn't affect Cara.

Cara has always been emotional and she had her emotions, expressed them, and moved on. Then she did what she needed to which was get to the bottom of what was going on with Kam and proved that coming for her is not going to be without consequences. I don't know how I ended up the Cara apologist here haha I just feel like she's being judged too harshly for having feelings. 

Also I can enjoy both Kam and Cara for the game play even if they are on opposite sides of the game. 

[AntFTW]

12 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

I think there is a pretty big distinction between between not saying Rachel's name even though she was going in regardless and people she trusts saying her name and putting Cara into elimination.

The scenarios are different… but the feelings aren’t. Kam felt betrayed by Cara’s actions and Cara’s dismisses them and says Kam shouldn’t be upset. Cara felt betrayed by Brandon’s actions and gets upset.

Kam wanted Ayanna out because Ayanna said she wanted Kam out. Kam expected Cara’s help in getting rid of a person that threatened her game, and didn’t get it.

If Cara gets to be mad, then Kam also gets to be mad. If Cara believes Kam shouldn’t be mad at Cara for a game move then Cara shouldn’t be mad at Brandon for a game move.

12 hours ago, WInterfalls said:

Cara has always been emotional and she had her emotions, expressed them, and moved on. Then she did what she needed to which was get to the bottom of what was going on with Kam and proved that coming for her is not going to be without consequences. I don't know how I ended up the Cara apologist here haha I just feel like she's being judged too harshly for having feelings. 

To be clear, I’m not judging Cara’s feelings. I don’t like to watch nor appreciate that Cara whines about getting the shitty end of a game move but fine, I recognize that’s how she expresses her emotions. I don’t like watching it from anyone (e.g. Josh). As much as I like drama, I’d prefer them put those emotions into gameplay, which is what Cara did this episode and what Kam did last episode. I want some petty revenge and retaliation. The part I’m judging her for is what I believe to be hypocritical behavior.

Edited May 2 by AntFTW

[WInterfalls]

25 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

If Cara gets to be mad, then Kam also gets to be mad. If Cara believes Kam shouldn’t be mad at Cara for a game move then Cara shouldn’t be mad at Brandon for a game move.

Kam is entitled to her feelings jus as much as Cara even if I don't personally feel they are on the same level of "betrayal" or whatever. I do also think it's fair to say that Kam is not that far removed from postpartum, away from her child and still pumping. It's natural for her to be more emotional and take slights more personally than she might otherwise. It's also why she could be more gung-ho about getting out big threats.  I doubt Cara could really empathize with that much. I doubt it would even occur to her. 

[peachmangosteen]

I need Kam or Leroy to go asap because I can't take anymore of them. But they're dominating the edit so much I figure one or both of them must get to the final. Sigh.

Edited May 2 by peachmangosteen

[Jobiska]

On another subject--interesting re Nicole telling Laurel (the next day) that coming to her bed was crossing a boundary.  Laurel seemed to be intentionally trying not to "get" it.  Like the other Challengers, I'd hate to be witnessing that whole mess in person!

I don't remember the challenge from before--I wish they would pause longer on the silly helmets so I could truly appreciate them.

[bunnyface]

I was kind of surprised that Nicole was the one setting boundaries and Laurel is coming off as so "needy."  I kind of thought of Laurel as a stone statue, wall of silence kind of person.  To see her so grasping was kind of a shock.

[lasu]

I do not believe that Nicole was setting a healthy boundary.  I think Nicole is being manipulative and everything about Laurel screams "abuse victim." I actually like Nicole overall, but I don't like her at all in relation to Laurel, who I'm mostly indifferent to.  If Nicole does nothing further this season that seems to be sending mixed signals, I'll take back what I said.  I haaaaaate seeing a strong ass woman like Laurel get played for a fool by this person yet again.  I hope I'm wrong and this is nothing more than foolishness between exes, but (to me, and definitely because of baggage I bring to the table), this looks incredibly toxic and I want Laurel to run as fast as those eight foot legs will take her.

[AntFTW]

5 hours ago, bunnyface said:

I was kind of surprised that Nicole was the one setting boundaries and Laurel is coming off as so "needy." 

She says that after the boundary is broken. 😂

She says that after she spent all this time giving Laurel all of this lovey-dovey affection, cuddling, "play fighting", etc... and then after all of that says "the boundary was broken."

Edited May 2 by AntFTW

[bunnyface]

Okay.  I don't have experience with that type of situation, so I'm willing to admit possibly I'm missing something.  

I also didn't understand why Jasmine said Cara just handed her a final.  I think when it comes time to steal stars, Jasmine isn't looked at as a strong opponent and they will come for hers first before Cara's or another opponents.  She might have trouble hanging onto that star.

Edited May 3 by bunnyface

[Jobiska]

Well, I'm not fond of either Laurel or Nicole, but I think that while she's a strong competitor, Laurel has never been sure of herself in relationships, and has been easily hurt a lot of times (Even with Horacio, one of the sweetest guys that's ever been on the show).  Whether Nicole is abusive, or is even a small percentage genuine in her "boundary" talk (I agree that the timing was convenient, to say the least), I don't know enough of their personal relationship to judge.  But I do know they are both a mess relationship wise and should not be together!  

[aghst]

Daily again worked better for later teams who learned from Brad’s mistake of thinking he could easily grab Al the bags while going full speed.

Why wasn’t Brad targeted?  I guess Cara convinced everyone to support her revenge votes?

But also, big names aren’t able to avoid the elimination, which seems to happen more often on All Stars than the OG show.

Wow Leroy Came on at the last minute to pull out the win though endurance and strength probably helped as fatigue probably made it harder to control the balls towards The end.

[Lantern7]

Dumb mission. I like that Brad thought he had an edge because he went through something like that in Duel II. Blockhead.

Nicole and Laurel need therapy. And we need to not see it.

[lasu]

13 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Nicole and Laurel need therapy. And we need to not see it.

Individually.  Not together.  Far from each other.  Very.  Very far.

[ljenkins782]

On 5/2/2024 at 3:08 PM, AntFTW said:

She says that after the boundary is broken. 😂

She says that after she spent all this time giving Laurel all of this lovey-dovey affection, cuddling, "play fighting", etc... and then after all of that says "the boundary was broken."

I do not get the appeal of Nicole, but admittedly, I strongly dislike the Boston accent on women. But personality-wise, looks, etc, I just don't find her appealing and this drama is uncomfortable to watch.

Was this challenge filmed at Action Park in NJ? that looked like the old Alpine Slide.

I like Brandon and Leroy so I was bummed to see them both go in. I appreciated the point of view that they both brought to these dramatic conversations. I really don't understand how Cara didn't get her self righteous bubble burst by Brandon listing off the really major life events that have occurred with him since he last spoke with Cara, that was a pretty good indicator that they're not exactly besties.

And honestly, it's a single winner challenge, it's really silly for anyone to be getting so caught up in the alliance/vote off idea, people are going to be coming for you sooner or later.

[AntFTW]

On 5/1/2024 at 4:52 PM, WInterfalls said:

Kam was the one that pushed Jasmin and Brandon to go against Cara. Kam pushed Cara's name the same terrible offense that Ayanna had done to Kam.

On 5/1/2024 at 5:04 PM, AntFTW said:

I just rewatched the last episode. I didn’t realize that she threw out Cara’s name in the previous episode. I missed that part so it threw me off as to how it got to this point.

Jasmine was on the The Challenge podcast to recap episode 6. Jasmine says that her and Brandon came up with the idea to throw Cara in, and afterwards they both told to Kam and Leroy, which I assume led to the scene we saw of Jasmine, Brandon, Kam and Leroy talking about throwing Rachel and Cara into elimination.

[millennium]

On 5/1/2024 at 12:29 PM, AntFTW said:

IMO, I'm not quite understanding the "game animosity" that Cara has toward Kam and Leroy.

Maybe she's tired of hearing about their kid.

 

On 5/1/2024 at 9:25 PM, WInterfalls said:

I do also think it's fair to say that Kam is not that far removed from postpartum, away from her child and still pumping. It's natural for her to be more emotional and take slights more personally than she might otherwise. It's also why she could be more gung-ho about getting out big threats.  I doubt Cara could really empathize with that much. I doubt it would even occur to her. 

This is a very good insight.   Her body is also not what she has been accustomed to on The Challenge so perhaps there is some frustration or insecurity about that as well.

 

On 5/7/2024 at 12:23 AM, Lantern7 said:

Nicole and Laurel need therapy. And we need to not see it.

This!  Laurel is ... well, like a dissociative personality.  Who was that person in the teeny red bikini on the swing?  I was like "Where's Laurel?  Where's her burn book?"  I thought it was also weird (and this is on production) that we have seen little or no interaction between Laurel and Cara Maria until this episode.   Laurel and Cara's non-sexual relationship was more sincere and intense than anything she had with Peanut Butta Nicole, IMO.   Nicole's backing away from Laurel in this episode made me think that Peanut Butta's only objective was to take the upper hand away from Laurel (because I think Laurel's the one who broke it off) and then put her in her place.   The Laurel I know would never put up with that shit.   Teeny bikini Laurel on the other hand ...

[millennium]

Following up on my Laurel comments above:

As I watch each episode I keep reminding myself, "Laurel is a veterinarian."

Is there anybody here who would be okay with Laurel treating your dog or cat?

And what about the people who are clients of Dr. Stuckey?   Do they watch this and think, This is my veterinarian?