Dealing With Shows "Aging"

[Kromm]

Some shows age better than others.

 

Here's a place to talk about all aspects of that. Effective strategies for dealing with an aging show. Mistakes shows make in dealing with getting old. Examples of shows that aged well. Examples of shows that aged badly.  Should a show ever bow out due to age, even if it's still getting good ratings? Does a show risk damaging it's future legacy if it allows itself to go on past it's prime (and I mean in terms of later marketability--long term dollars vs. short-term ones)?

[GreekGeek]

Effective strategies for dealing with an aging show.

 

Well, it helps to be a cartoon, a la The Simpsons, so that actors can't age out of roles. If Bart Simpson were played by a live actor, he'd be in his 30's by now.

 

New characters can keep a show fresh (even though they can also kill it). A show that aged well through the years was Law and Order (original recipe), I think largely because of the changing cast. The characters were just different enough to mix up the dynamics, but not so different that the whole tone of the show was changed.  M*A*S*H also had some excellent replacement characters. I wish there had been a way to combine the less cartoonish characters of the later episodes with the humor of the earlier ones. ER handled new characters smoothly for a while, until all the newer guys became the same "goofy maverick" type and Maura Tierney took up waaaaay too much screen time. 

 

Shows that aged badly? Too many to name.What not to do, I think, is to make the plots increasingly weird and gimmicky--thus the infamous "Jump the Shark" phrase.

 

[ParadoxLost]

I think the obvious mistake is the family show that tries to introduce a new kid when they original adorable, precocious child grows up and the role of little darling is vacant.

 

Brady Bunch and cousin Oliver (to replace Cindy/Bobby)

Cosby Show and Olivia (to replace Rudy)

Full House and Uncle Jesse's twins (to replace Michelle)

[Kromm]

Well, it helps to be a cartoon, a la The Simpsons, so that actors can't age out of roles. If Bart Simpson were played by a live actor, he'd be in his 30's by now.

It's funny you mention The Simpsons, because it's a big part of the reason I created this topic.  Overall I think they've dealt with their show aging damn well, and of course reaped the benefits of being animated, but I started to wonder if they hit some kind of creative threshhold all of a sudden when not one, not two, but THREE crossover-gimmick episodes were announced for early this season.

 

1.) Family Guy/Simpsons crossover (Sept 28)

2.) Simpsons cross over with their own earlier Tracy Ullman show selves (Oct 19)

3.) Simpsons cross over with Futurama. (Nov 9)

 

Any ONE of those may have been a good idea (especially the second one).  But all three?  It feels like they're pushing to come up with ideas.

 

EDIT - Okay, I stand slightly corrected.  The Family Guy crossover will actually air ON Family Guy, not The Simpsons.  So maybe that lessens the repetitive nature of this a bit.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Kromm

[Wings]

Mad About You was a good show until they had a baby.  Introducing a baby on any show kills it.  We have to struggle through the cliches of pregnancy (we don't waddle), birth and sleepless nights.  ugh  I have kids (grown now) and have never liked shows with babies.   They had nowhere else to go with the plot, I guess.  

Edited September 11, 2014 by wings707

[Kel Varnsen]

Well, it helps to be a cartoon, a la The Simpsons, so that actors can't age out of roles. If Bart Simpson were played by a live actor, he'd be in his 30's by now.

The only time it becomes an issue with something like The Simpsons is when the voice actors pass away. Marcia Wallace died last year at 70. Most of the other actors are younger than her, but at the same time things happen. It just seems weird that Hank Azaria has been doing voices on the show since he was in his mid 20's and now he is 50.

 

In the show it gets a bit weirder. I mean Abe will always be a WWII vet, but of course that part of his character means he would have to be a lot older than he was when the series started. Then again old people I think generally look a lot younger than they did in decades past so I guess that is kind of ok.

[kiddo82]

The only time it becomes an issue with something like The Simpsons is when the voice actors pass away. Marcia Wallace died last year at 70. Most of the other actors are younger than her, but at the same time things happen. It just seems weird that Hank Azaria has been doing voices on the show since he was in his mid 20's and now he is 50.

 

In the show it gets a bit weirder. I mean Abe will always be a WWII vet, but of course that part of his character means he would have to be a lot older than he was when the series started. Then again old people I think generally look a lot younger than they did in decades past so I guess that is kind of ok.

Or when they flashback to when Bart or Lisa were born in the early to mid 80s. Now, to be the age they are at present, we're talking they should have been born in the mid 2000's. It amuses me to think about, but it's a cartoon so that stuff doesn't bother me.

[Kel Varnsen]

Or when they flashback to when Bart or Lisa were born in the early to mid 80s. Now, to be the age they are at present, we're talking they should have been born in the mid 2000's. It amuses me to think about, but it's a cartoon so that stuff doesn't bother me.

Yea the flashbacks like that don't usually work either. The reason I brought up Abe though is that the flashbacks are usually one episode things that can easily be retconned. Abe being a WWII vet is a main part of his character so to me it stands out a bit more. Same thing though, it is a cartoon so it is not like it is something I am upset about.

[Kromm]

Actually I doubt Abe being a WWII vet is set in stone.  Simpsons has rolling continuity, even if it's not as obvious as it would be on a show like The Family Guy.  Every episode is a reset.  They may refer back to earlier episodes at times, but until the moment they do, you can assume each episode is happening independently of every other one.

[tribeca]

I think Friends during the later seasons were pretty bad at this.  There was time watching it where all could think is these characters are too old to be acting like this.

[ParadoxLost]

Competitive reality shows can become a problem as they age because fans that have studied every aspect of the game start playing.  Survivor really bugged me early last season because there were a couple players openly whining that the others weren't playing the game or letting them play Survivor the right way.

[BoogieBurns]

Competitive reality shows can become a problem as they age because fans that have studied every aspect of the game start playing.

 

This happened with America's Next Top Model. I'm not ashamed that I watched it, the show used to be good. But all the girls started playing the villian role because that got the most air time. The contestants admittedly were only doing the show to get more TV roles, not to become a model. 

 

So You Think You Can Dance had a similar issue, but the producers were at fault. They kept having great contestants, but the majority of dancers who stayed in the competition were 18 years old, super fit, and classically trained. The first seasons had so many different types of dancers represented, it's sad to see how predictable it became.

 

It happens in a lot of shows, but these are the only ones I watched over several years.

[lucindabelle]

Oh agree about SYTYCD. It's all modern modern modern. The tap is so not respected, ditto ballroom.

[DittyDotDot]

I think the obvious mistake is the family show that tries to introduce a new kid when they original adorable, precocious child grows up and the role of little darling is vacant.

 

Brady Bunch and cousin Oliver (to replace Cindy/Bobby)

Cosby Show and Olivia (to replace Rudy)

Full House and Uncle Jesse's twins (to replace Michelle)

 

How about Little House On The Prairie replacing it's entire aging child cast for new versions? Or was it more ridiculous when the Ingalls hit the road and the entire town went with them? That's some serious showing-your-age-ness right there. But it seems a show could get away with this kind of stuff back in the days when there weren't so many options to watch. I think people don't put up with this kind of crap anymore because there's so many options and we've changed the way we watch television for the most part.

 

I think shows that show their age more now usually are shows that are somewhat serialized and there's only so many times you can watch the same characters have a that "defining" moment and/or get in and out of the same danger; shows like Supernatural and Bones. But I think shows like Law And Order (original recipe) could probably keep going and going as long as they keep changing up the cast and finding interesting cases to bring forward. It's too bad that The X-files had gotten so alien-wonky before they introduced the new team, I could have watched some more stories of the weird and creepy for a couple more seasons (minus the alien conspiracy plot, of course). Doctor Who is probably the best example of how having a complete changing of the guard (cast and show runners) every few years can help keep a show from looking it's age.

 

As far as The Simpsons, I don't watch it regularly and haven't for over 10 years, but I seem to catch one episode a year and am always surprised how after over 25 years they still manage to put out something enjoyable and funny. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I watched it regularly, though.

Edited September 12, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[blueray]

The star trek spin offs aged well I think. The shows are well written and acted and the special effects are good for the 80's/90's.

[Kromm]

The star trek spin offs aged well I think. The shows are well written and acted and the special effects are good for the 80's/90's.

To be clear, when making the thread I didn't mean "aging" in the sense of "how have they held up being viewed years later" (I think somewhere we already have another thread for that), but instead meant "how has the show dealt with being around and producing new episodes for a large number of years".

Prime example: Bones.  This is a show that barely seemed to have enough gas in it for three years, but is still lingering around (fairly unwatchably) heading into a tenth season.  IMO the only good thing they ever did to extend the show a bit was when they milked some humor out of Dr. Brennan having a different assistant every episode or two (after a really uber-lame plot with her previous assistant helping out a serial killer--a plot that in of itself was a sign of how far the show had already fallen), and even THAT assistant thing got old pretty quickly.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Kromm

[blueray]

Oh I see, yeah there is a thread for that. But I could say ST: DS9 just got better as the show went on. Season 7 is probably the best season.

[Kel Varnsen]

Prime example: Bones.  This is a show that barely seemed to have enough gas in it for three years, but is still lingering around (fairly unwatchably) heading into a tenth season.  IMO the only good thing they ever did to extend the show a bit was when they milked some humor out of Dr. Brennan having a different assistant every episode or two (after a really uber-lame plot with her previous assistant helping out a serial killer--a plot that in of itself was a sign of how far the show had already fallen), and even THAT assistant thing got old pretty quickly.

Is that assistant thing still going? I stopped watching Bones before last season and even then it was stupid. I mean they were supposed to be people doing doctoral work right? But none of them ever graduated, even though it seemed like they were working the same assistant job for years.

[ParadoxLost]

Shows that have a set plan for the narrative or myth arc suffer the most from aging.

 

How I Met Your Mother basically destroyed their intended ending by caving in to money and adding several filler seasons that built up the relationship between Barney and Robin and convincing a lot of people that Robin was absolutely wrong for Ted.

 

Sometimes I watch Supernatural and marvel that this show is still going on 5 years after the apocalypse.  Not because its terrible (well sometimes its not exactly good), but that was the arc, the point of all the Winchester history.  Now every time they die or end up in hell or whatever its really not that big a deal. 

[manbearpig]

I never really got Supernatural when people actually thought it was good, so the fact that it is still on the air, and will probably be on the air for the next few years if Padelecki and Ackles renew their contracts, kind of baffles me. Crazy to think it's about to reach the two hundred episode milestone, but for me the great myth arc episodes were always surrounded by Supernatural's take on urban legends or horror movies, which never really interested me and it got to the point where I just couldn't watch the ordinary episodes of the show because each time an important episode rolled around the show usually nailed it and then followed up with a bunch of filler that never interested me. I do kind of love that it seemed like the show the CW kept around just because they were struggling and it had a devoted, if small, fanbase and now it's one of their bigger hits despite its age.

 

I know a lot of people still love it though and maybe one day I'll finally finish season four. I watched most of season four at the beginning of the year. I only have three episodes left but haven't watched the show in months.

[Raja]

All of the lawyers on JAG got promoted twice and held the exact same jobs. Double rank inflation in the US Navy. Yet somehow the enlisted sailors got stuck in rank for the duration.

[Actionmage]

but instead meant "how has the show dealt with being around and producing new episodes for a large number of years".

 

I think that's why the medical and police procedurals fare so well, generally. Their settings, as Law & Order proved, cast changes don't have to hurt a show and said cast changes can spur good growth. er also proved how an ensemble can withstand multiple cast changes over time.

 

I watch Bones sporadically, but that's because I feel the characters have been "too long at the fair." I like the characters, but when Sealy and Brennan left the lab at the end of last season, it felt right and in character.

 

Another good example of "aging", imo, is Doctor Who. The creators built-in an excuse for why the Doctor could look different, so the show wouldn't be ham-strung by much. Companions could come and go, as they were supporting to The Doctor. Time and Space were available, so anywhere/-when was a possibility. There is a continuity, but it's not exactly straight and linear. (Though, I guess arguments could be made for it being so, in some context.)

 

Another couple of good examples are America's Funniest Home Videos and Dancing with the Stars.  The former has had various hosts, but since they aren't really the "stars", it's just a matter of who can segue from video to video smoothest. As for Dancing, while Len Goodman left the judging panel just this last season/cycle, the pro dancers have rotated on and off the show throughout it's run. New dancers help keep things hoppin', in terms of viewership. How else can you know if a favorite/hated pro is as good/bad as you think unless there is fresh folks in to compare?

[Anna Yolei]

South Park,for me,is one of the rare shows that I can count the number of bad seasons on one hand with digits to spare (namely season three, but the talent was spread out between the show and the movie and arguably the direction of the latest season).

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia hit a noticeable slump in season six before turning it around midway into season seven. Seasons eight and nine were pretty much on point.

[Chaos Theory]

I am not sure if this is the place for it but it mostly fits here. With MW leaving NCIS it once again got me to thinking about a longstanding issue I have with long running procedurals. Characters stay forever often well past the point of it making sense. DiNozzo should have been promoted and gotten his own team a long time ago and hell even McGee and Palmer should be chafing at the seems. I know that might mean them leaving the show but that at least make sense.

On Criminal Minds half of not all the team members should have been offered there own team by now especially Morgan. The fact that he is still playing third and even fourth fiddle makes no sense: Hell even JJ should be running her own team (and yes I know PTV hates her with the power of a thousand suns).

CSI and L&O original recipes despite there mutual flaws at least did a good job of swapping in and out cast as needed. Very few characters staid past their "Sell by" date.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Ujio]

I think shows that aged successfully dealt with cast changes gracefully and intelligently. Simply replacing a character with a younger version of the same character NEVER seems to work (like, you know, bringing in Nancy in Nellie's place on Little House on the Prairie). 

 

A show like M*A*S*H introduced completely new characters, not mere clones of the departed ones (a good example of that would be Frank vs. Charles), and that added depth to the series. 

 

Of course, taking a miniseries approach to a series helps because it practically "resets" the show every season. I'm not talking about the shows like Hotel and even Fargo. Instead, the approach that The Wire took, IMO, really helped refresh the show, while still allowing the viewers to get to know the existing characters even better. Brilliant.

 

That said, I personally think that shows should always strive to quit before "aging" becomes an issue (i.e., while on top). It seems that the shows whose names always appear in the "Best of" discussions seldom went over 7 seasons. 

[zxy556575]

I'm quite fond of limited run series these days. Ten episodes should be enough to tell a good story, start to finish. No aging!

 

The Good Wife has done some things well and others poorly. Having Alicia leave the firm was gutsy and opened up a lot of new story possibilities, but apparently the showrunners were reluctant to lose popular characters like Eli and Diane so they've twisted themselves into ridiculous knots keeping them in Alicia's orbit for no good reason. Viewers are also pretty tired of Alicia staying married to Peter, why exactly? Because of the show's title?

 

Justified was one of the few series that kept me interested over multiple seasons, because they stayed true to their mission. There were single episode plots as well as story lines that ran through entire seasons or even the whole series. The main character had romantic entanglements, including serious ones, but they never bogged him down into romcom territory. None of the women worked out in the end, anyway, which left Raylan to be true to his character of lawman first, everything else second. From beginning to end, it was about Raylan and the complicated demons that drove him. The show also had some great supporting characters, many of whom didn't live long enough to become tiresome.

[zxy556575]

I guess we should mention Seinfeld. It lasted and didn't really age because it never changed its formula. Nobody got married, had kids or evolved in any way. The four main characters may have been 9 years older but you could have taken many of the later plots and put them in the first season without changing much.

[BW Manilowe]

I am not sure if this is the place for it but it mostly fits here. With MW leaving NCIS it once again got me to thinking about a longstanding issue I have with long running procedurals. Characters stay forever often well past the point of it making sense. DiNozzo should have been promoted and gotten his own team a long time ago and hell even McGee and Palmer should be chafing at the seems. I know that might mean them leaving the show but that at least make sense.

On Criminal Minds half of not all the team members should have been offered there own team by now especially Morgan. The fact that he is still playing third and even fourth fiddle makes no sense: Hell even JJ should be running her own team (and yes I know PTV hates her with the power of a thousand suns).

CSI and L&O original recipes despite there mutual flaws at least did a good job of swapping in and out cast as needed. Very few characters staid past their "Sell by" date.

The thing about Criminal Minds though, is I distinctly remember that there was a line actually written into 1 episode, seasons back, where then-BAU Section Chief Erin Strauss (this character was killed off, by The Replicator, in 2014)--who always seemed to disapprove of Hotch's team anyway, & was their boss--tells Hotch, apparently after the team's handled a case in some way that she didn't like, that none of his team will ever be promoted within the Bureau outside of where they are now at the BAU. They're basically "stuck" working together until they quit the FBI/BAU or until they die (or until the show ends).

Edited January 7, 2016 by BW Manilowe

[bmasters9]

That said, I personally think that shows should always strive to quit before "aging" becomes an issue (i.e., while on top). 

And two of my favorite comedies of the past (The Bob Newhart Show and Barney Miller) did just that: Bob Newhart quitting in 1978 after 6 seasons, and Barney Miller in 1982 after 8 (technically 7.5, as that one started at the top of 1975). 

[Raja]

I am not sure if this is the place for it but it mostly fits here. With MW leaving NCIS it once again got me to thinking about a longstanding issue I have with long running procedurals. Characters stay forever often well past the point of it making sense. DiNozzo should have been promoted and gotten his own team a long time ago and hell even McGee and Palmer should be chafing at the seems. I know that might mean them leaving the show but that at least make sense.

On Criminal Minds half of not all the team members should have been offered there own team by now especially Morgan. The fact that he is still playing third and even fourth fiddle makes no sense: Hell even JJ should be running her own team (and yes I know PTV hates her with the power of a thousand suns).

CSI and L&O original recipes despite there mutual flaws at least did a good job of swapping in and out cast as needed. Very few characters staid past their "Sell by" date.

And then came Special Victims Unit which even put a line in its pilot episode about detectives not being retained in that position for psychiatric reasons. and now, even with a promotion Sergeant Benson has spent most of her adult life investigating crimes against children and sexual assaults.

[Irlandesa]

I think Friends during the later seasons were pretty bad at this.  There was time watching it where all could think is these characters are too old to be acting like this.

While this is true, I also think Friends is an example of where I thought the quality declined and then they had one of their better seasons before getting tiresome again.  And Frasier had some down years before recovering when their former showrunners came back. 

 

The Good Wife has done some things well and others poorly. Having Alicia leave the firm was gutsy and opened up a lot of new story possibilities, but apparently the showrunners were reluctant to lose popular characters like Eli and Diane so they've twisted themselves into ridiculous knots keeping them in Alicia's orbit for no good reason. Viewers are also pretty tired of Alicia staying married to Peter, why exactly? Because of the show's title?

So The Good Wife should only just be the good ex-wife?  I think The Good Wife did some very interesting things when they got inspired by what was essentially a filler episode and had Cary & Alicia break away.  But yes, they didn't really have a plan after that. And they just repeated it with Alicia solo.  They can talk all they'd like about having a seven year plan but they clearly don't.

 

I do think the show could have shed some people and kept going but it would have been very difficult to create a whole new show. 

 

And then came Special Victims Unit which even put a line in its pilot episode about detectives not being retained in that position for psychiatric reasons. and now, even with a promotion Sergeant Benson has spent most of her adult life investigating crimes against children and sexual assaults.

And everything is so personal to the cops.  And that's why I will tear my hair out if it lasts longer than the original recipe.

[spaceytraci1208]

And then came Special Victims Unit which even put a line in its pilot episode about detectives not being retained in that position for psychiatric reasons. and now, even with a promotion Sergeant Benson has spent most of her adult life investigating crimes against children and sexual assaults.

I listen to music on YouTube at work...and every 3 songs or so, there was an ad for a "powerful" episode of SVU where Olivia is once again a fucking victim. It's just annoying at this point. How the hell is she still allowed to work in that unit?!

[CoderLady]

I listen to music on YouTube at work...and every 3 songs or so, there was an ad for a "powerful" episode of SVU where Olivia is once again a fucking victim. It's just annoying at this point. How the hell is she still allowed to work in that unit?!

 

Your timing is perfect. From TV Insider's "What's Worth Watching" column for tonight's show:

 

Hasn't Lt. Olivia Benson (Mariska Hargitay) suffered enough over the years on NBC's Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (9/8c)? Apparently not. This week, her attempt to stop a home invasion results in her being held hostage.

Edited January 14, 2016 by CoderLady