S04.E27: The Understudies

[Lemons]

Everyone needs to remember that it's just A tv show. Reality show, yes, but edited and loosely scripted. The mothers are in this 100 percent, so either they are agreeing to this "abuse" of their children for money and fame, or it's not as bad as it looks. Maybe it's a little of both. Nobody is forcing any of them to participate in this reality show. What does that tell you?

As for the comment of Nia having flat feet? She does. Every dance teacher would tell her that, every dancer knows her body flaws with regard to dance. Go into a serious ballet class at this age and the girls could even describe each of their classmates feet In detail.

A lot of hate on Maddie, but she is a talented dancer. That solo was stunning. She needs more ballet to help her posture though.

Nia, on the other hand, not such a natural when it comes to dance. She has some strengths but if it wasn't for the show,she wouldn't be part of this team. Neither would the little one, Mac .

Edited September 13, 2014 by Lemons

[Lemons]

So why are these parents allowing it to continue? It's not the dance teacher, it's the parents at fault! My son was involved in one activity where the teacher was insulting and rude. I immediately withdrew him from the situation and got all of my money back. Zero tolerance for that sort of thing.

And the point of Nia being old enough to have babies and even marry in some countries? Crass, but her point was stop babying these soon to be teenagers.

Stop seething with jealousy over Maddie. Either accept that style of teaching or move on. This is the fifth season that these same parents have been complaining about the same things. What kind of ineffective parenting is that?

Edited September 14, 2014 by Lemons

[Lemons]

I think there are some defending the parents by claiming they have a "contract."  Not true.  I'm just saying that if I witness a teacher mistreating my son/daughter or don't like their style, I will complain at the same time as I leave.  And that's the end.  I hope nobody believes that they have ALL been enslaved by a 5 year contract.  The mothers clearly like the fame/money more than the supposed mistreatment.  I wish at least one of the them would walk away and say they have had enough. 

[WimminWinning]

I think there are some defending the parents by claiming they have a "contract."  Not true.  I'm just saying that if I witness a teacher mistreating my son/daughter or don't like their style, I will complain at the same time as I leave.  And that's the end.  I hope nobody believes that they have ALL been enslaved by a 5 year contract.  The mothers clearly like the fame/money more than the supposed mistreatment.  I wish at least one of the them would walk away and say they have had enough. 

 

There are reports that these families are under a six season contract. And we see what happens when they try to leave. Christi tried to leave and couldn't because of the contract. Kelly filed a lawsuit claiming emotional distress and breach of contract due to the demands of the show, but the judge threw out the emotional distress claim. So no, they may not have the legal right to leave based on Abby's behavior because not all judges believe that Abby is inflicting emotional distress, thus these moms don't have legal cause (depending on the judge, of course) to break contract.

[Stella MD]

At what consequence, though? It's not like breaching the contract will result in their knees being broken, or their relatives being squirreled away in the night, never to be heard from again. Presumably a breach of contract means they have to pay back some money. Possibly a lot of money. Likely they won't be able to keep their current standard of living and have to sell their McMansions (boo-fucking-hoo). Only a completely negligent asshole would run the risk of their children being permanently fucked up from daily verbal abuse for some cash. Either the events of the show are overblown, or Child Services needs to be called on the whole lot of them. And again, where are the fathers? What deadbeat watches this shit and casually thinks 'oh, so that's what my family's been up to'?

[Absolom]

The breach of contract terms are a severe financial penalty.  True it isn't death, but it could be more than they have earned.  Not everyone can face financial debacle calmly

 

While I would have run about a minute or two into meeting Abby as I did from a local dance studio owner with a similar attitude, for some reason there are mothers who believe their egotistical hype.  I'm not defending these mothers either, but not everyone sees Abby the way that I do or has the same personality. 

Edited September 14, 2014 by Absolom

[Stella MD]

I'm not suggesting that anyone can face financial debacle calmly. However, if the psychological well-being of my underage child were at stake, no finances in the world would be worth it to me. Then again, I'd also never agree to allow my kids to appear on reality television to begin with, so it's hard for me to convince myself that any of these adults are capable of good judgement.

[Uke]

I've been reading this forum for a while now, but haven't commented before.  But I'd like to weigh in on this discussion.

 

First, from everything I've read, the nature of the show changed once filming began. The focus was originally supposed to be on the moms with minimal focus on the girls. Then apparently tptb realized how Abby was a lightning rod for "drama" and so the focus changed to Abby and the girls with the moms reacting to Abby's behavior.

 

Second, for the network, millions of dollars are involved - not just in production but also in advertising revenue.  For the network, more "drama" means more media and viewer buzz and likely more viewers leading to more ad revenue.  They have to be able to control their cast (Abby, moms + the girls). They control them by locking the cast into very tough contracts designed to bankrupt the cast members if their contracts are broken. It's not simply giving back earnings-to-date or selling their mcmansions. The moms (and their families) could be on the hook for all they have PLUS future earnings (from any source).  I think in one of the meet & greet videos, one of the moms mentioned $1million penalty if they walked.  That's why Kelly had to make a good faith effort to be put back on the show despite the lawsuit/countersuit, so she wouldn't be held in breach of contract.  My guess is that none of the families were wealthy before signing on to the show, and probably are still not wealthy so a million dollars would be a pretty hard lump to swallow.

 

The contracts tend to be very one-sided in production's favor. The show can drop someone or use someone only occasionally but the cast members don't have the right to control how, when, how often, etc. they are included. 

 

Personally, I don't blame the original moms. They were sold on a concept, signed standard reality show type contracts, not realizing the show would not eventually turn out to be what they were expecting.  I'm sure that the moms explain these things to the girls and they just have to suck it up till the contract ends.  The new moms + daughters signing on have no excuse. They have had every opportunity to know what they're signing up for.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Uke

[Alapaki]

First, from everything I've read, the nature of the show changed once filming began.

First of all things weren't nearly as bad the first couple of seasons as they are now.

 

 

I agree.  I think it's very possible that the parents suffered from a frog-in-the-boiling water problem.

 

When the show started, the "controversy" was over Abby over-sexualizing the girls with risqué coshtumes.  There's even an episode from Season 1 that Lifetime vowed to never re-air because of the outfits the girls were wearing.  That seems almost quaint now.  Because, IMO, those outfits were nothing compared to the abuse that Abby inflicts on these girls, and that Lifetime apparently takes great joy in airing.

 

I assume that most, if not all of the original Moms and girls had some preexisting relationship with the Dance Studio (even if they weren't on a "team" together).  I doubt they anticipated the direction the show would head into.

 

I also agree that the contractual penalties for "just walking away" may be substantial.  There's probably a significant financial penalty.  And I seem to recall from reading about Kelly's lawsuit that there is some sort of non-compete clause that would prevent the girls from performing at/for/with any other studio.

 

I say none of this to excuse the Moms from allowing their kids to continue to be subjected to Abby.  Rather, merely to explain that there is probably more to it than meets the eye.

 

I don't see the parents as victims.  The kids are the only victims here.  The Parents' sins are ones of omission, by failing to take a stand against Abby.  Abby's sins are, IMO, much worse, because she affirmatively acts in a destructive way towards these kids simply to make money for herself.  I think she's a disgrace.

[The Closer]

I think Abby's comment about Nia having children and how she could get married in some countries one of the most vile things I've heard on television so I completely understood Holly's reaction. A 12 year old having chidren and marrying is child abuse and trying to normalize that in an attempt to tell Holly that Nia wasn't a "little kid" an incredibly sick way to go about it. And, if you were the parent of a child in which that comparison was being made, well, let's just say that I think Abby is lucky that the only thing that happened was that Holly walked away.

 

I'm at the end of the road with this show. Even if it's largely scripted, we're participating in creating a culture in which pretty extreme verbal and emotional abuse of children is seen as okay because it's for "entertainment". Is that really where we're at? I have enjoyed watching the dance aspects so all I can hope is that someone will come along and create a new show focused around dance. That's not this any longer.

[Mkay]

Did the children know that Abby was going to pull their dance? Was that part of the "scripted" reality show drama? I agree with the posters above that this is a horrible environment for those children. I think the moms are keeping them at the school because they're on TV and will gain valuable exposure. But at what cost? In my opinion, these girls are being emotionally abused--by Abby and their mothers.

I haven't read all the replies but I'm working on it. :)

 

I have read that if you youtube the routine "Playing with Matches" it is on youtube.  They were disqualified because they used fire in their routine which you can not do. Apparently, the story used on tv is well, just a story line. :/  

 

I keep watching because to my knowledge Chloe only has until nationals, and then she is done with the studio for the show.  (She is already at another studio, just finishing her contract with Lifetime) Once Chloe is gone, I'll be done with the show.  My daughter and I met Chloe (and Christie) and they were both super nice.  I have a soft spot for Chloe.  I'll be done when she is.

Except that the number wasn't actually pulled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2RNUYEeWkQ  So the little scene with them standing in the wings confused and Gianna blaming their mothers was obviously staged.

Correct.  it was disqualified but still preformed at least once.  I think it was preformed for the judges and disqualified.  It didn't get preformed the 2nd time like they usually do. I read this on some comments from some people who were there. (or so they said)

[RedheadZombie]

At this point I believe 100% that Abby is racist.

And beyond the Maya Angelou remark, I really think the "she can have children" comment was racially motivated. I highly doubt she would've made that comment about Chloe, Kendall or Maddie (and I don't think that has anything to do with their relatively pubescence).

Abby made a despicable crack about Chloe, last season I think. She was arguing with Christi about missing class, and Abby suggested that Chloe has been sneaking out meeting boys. She all but called her a whore.

[sevenatenine]

What kind of allegiance do the producers have to Abby?

 

Does she have editorial control?

 

If not, why don't the producers understand that what the viewers want to see is 

 

A.) Abby lose, so by extension, Maddie lose?  Why would they allow Abby tamper with the results in the fashion that she does?

 

B.) Abby look bad (even at her worst, sometimes I feel like she's getting a pretty good edit).

 

C.) The kids win!

 

Why not send Chloe to her another dance teacher that would give her better choreography than Abby does and see how she really does?  Why not make Abby put Maddie up against the kids from Studio Bleu?  Surely they have the control to make that happen, so why don't they?

[Stella MD]

That's an excellent question. I assume it's because they're under the misapprehension that viewers will want to continue watching this miserable cow and her dance studio indefinitely, and thus they want to keep her happy enough to re-sign her contract so that this dreck of a show can continue after the original kids are set free. The irony is that it's precisely this mentality that is driving viewers away and will eventually result in cancellation. Setting Abby up for a weekly public humiliation (the same way that Gargamel, Wile E. Coyote, the Wicked Witch, and every other cartoon villian used to get their weekly comeuppance on Saturday morning cartoons of yore) would probably send the ratings through the roof. 

[sofiah]

 

 

If not, why don't the producers understand that what the viewers want to see is

A.) Abby lose, so by extension, Maddie lose?  Why would they allow Abby tamper with the results in the fashion that she does?

 

Well, actually, as a long time viewer I can say that I don't necessarily want to see Maddie lose, and I don't think "all" viewers do either, although I know some do.  I hate Abby, I'd like to see her brought down a peg (or ten), I'd like to see all the girls do well.  Although  what I would like to see is Maddie genuinely competing with people who are at her level and/or better.  We all know these people exist, she knows they exist… I don't understand why Abby won't let it happen on air.  If she was intelligent at all she'd realize that people would actually like her precious Maddie a lot more if she let her actually compete rather then withdrawing her whenever there is someone who she could potentially lose to. 

Edited September 16, 2014 by sofiah

[wanderwoman]

So why are these parents allowing it to continue? It's not the dance teacher, it's the parents at fault! My son was involved in one activity where the teacher was insulting and rude. I immediately withdrew him from the situation and got all of my money back. Zero tolerance for that sort of thing.

And the point of Nia being old enough to have babies and even marry in some countries? Crass, but her point was stop babying these soon to be teenagers.

Stop seething with jealousy over Maddie. Either accept that style of teaching or move on. This is the fifth season that these same parents have been complaining about the same things. What kind of ineffective parenting is that?

[snip] The moms are beholden to two contracts: an ALDC contract and a filming contract. Sure. They could probably walk away from the ALDC contract with minimal financial losses, but the production contract (were it enforced) would come with significant penalties. Even the ALDC contract signed by non-stop members has punitive damages such as a one year exclusivity clause that would prohibit a child from competing with another studio or taking class elsewhere for the year after the contract is signed. So, look at Paige and Brooke- they left and can't dance elsewhere under the threat of the two contracts. These are children with talent and because adults can't act like adults, they're penalized. Abby's subjective enforcement of the contract is pathetic. She didn't stop Maddy from performing with other companies or using an alternative choreographer. She never penalized Maddy for having a dad who called Abby abusive on air. She didn't penalize Maddy with having her solos taken after a bad competition. No one is jealous of Maddy. Especially no one on this forum. Calling a spade a spade isn't jealousy. I've never even heard any of the moms say "Maddy sucks!" They simply want their daughters to be corrected without the constant comparison. My cousin was an Olympic class gymnast on the National Team. I sat through hundreds of practices. At no point, in her ten years of training, did her coach use such destructive criticism as Abby does. Sure. Kids were used to demonstrate correct technique and each child had strengths and weaknesses. But, there's a way to use one child's success to encourage another child. Abby uses one child's success to SHAME and DISCOURAGE the other children. Have you ever heard Abby publicly admonish Maddy for posture or lack of flexibility? Nope. But, those are two things Maddy could improve to the level of Brooke's flexibility and Chloe's turns and other dancers' posture. Again, every dancer has things they can improve on. Why is that eagle eye reserved for private corrections to Maddy while the other kids receive it very publicly?

[snip]

What's so heinous about Abby is that she doesn't even respect the autonomy of the girls. She wants them to "stand up to their moms" and be independent. She constantly reminds them that choosing their moms side over hers will have consequences. But, Abby still punishes the girls for their mother's behavior. That's not the act of someone who truly believes the girls are autonomous. In fact, Maddy is the only one who doesn't get grief for her mother's flaws.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Rhondinella
being snarky toward another poster

[Mkay]

I googled 2014 ALDC competition results. If you look at all the competitions, Maddie isn't always number 1.  Sure, she wins and that is the one that gets put on camera.  But she has also places 2, 3rd, and 4th and those results are not aired.  The other girls are winning on their own too.  Chloe's name has been missing on most of the results which seems to confirm she is no longer dancing with ALDC.  Good for her!

[rainsunmoonshine]

I'm not suggesting that anyone can face financial debacle calmly. However, if the psychological well-being of my underage child were at stake, no finances in the world would be worth it to me. Then again, I'd also never agree to allow my kids to appear on reality television to begin with, so it's hard for me to convince myself that any of these adults are capable of good judgement.

How would the psychological well-being of your child be helped by becoming homeless?

 

I just watched this episode and I have to say it was horrible- I can't wait until they're out of contract and the show hopefully ends!

[Higgins]

Microagressions are a type of racism - it's called aversive racism.

I don't buy that. She is an ignorant insensitive bitch but, I don't see her express racism. [snip]

Edited September 17, 2014 by Rhondinella
criticizing another poster

[Absolom]

I think Abbie is a rascist because she treats Nia differently.  She's done almost everything except dress the child as Aunt Jemima.  That speaks volumes to me. 

[cali1981]

How about this scenario: two of the moms decide that, contract be damned, they've had enough and leave, risking a legal action for breach.  The scumbag producers come after them in a lawsuit and the moms then proceed, through their lawyers, to claim that, for the allmighty dollar, the producers are not only aiding and abetting child abuse but are actively encouraging it.  That might put the company and the network in a very tenuous postion public relation and image-wise.  Do they then admit that the entire show is fake and staged or do they still come at the families with all guns blazing?  The network might take a terrible PR beating if that happened.

Edited September 17, 2014 by cali1981

[cali1981]

I think Abbie is a rascist because she treats Nia differently.  She's done almost everything except dress the child as Aunt Jemima.  That speaks volumes to me. 

Absolutely.  Maybe as a follow up Abby can have Nia and the girls recreate the version of Uncle Tom's Cabin from The King and I.

Edited September 17, 2014 by cali1981

[Uke]

How about this scenario: two of the moms decide that, contract be damned, they've had enough and leave, risking a legal action for breach.  The scumbag producers come after them in a lawsuit and the moms then proceed, through their lawyers, to claim that, for the allmighty dollar, the producers are not only aiding and abetting child abuse but are actively encouraging it.  That might put the company and the network in a very tenuous postion public relation and image-wise.  Do they then admit that the entire show is fake and staged or do they still come at the families with all guns blazing?  The network might take a terrible PR beating if that happened.

Doesn't matter if it's 1, 2 or all of the moms (the contracts are individual), if they walk they would still be in breach unless and until a court determined the production/network was guilty of a criminal act. They'd have to get lawyers involved first and convince a judge to issue an injunction to halt production while the complaints were being investigated.  It would be a long and expensive process given that the networks could probably "out-lawyer" any counsel the moms could find in PA* .  If they're nearing the end of their contract, I doubt a lawyer would take it on (on contingency) considering how long all this has been going on and that the moms have been participants.

 

*Since the alleged child abuse took place in PA, the jurisdiction would be in PA.  Lawyers have to pass the bar and be licensed in each state in which they practice. The network would already have lawyers well-versed in entertainment law and on the bar in any state where they're filming.

[Nimm]

Apologies for being late, in the UK we're about 2 weeks behind.

 

Did anyone notice that when they announced Maddie and Gino's places as "overall solo" results they weren't? The man reading out the places announced Gino's as second in the teen solo category and Maddie's as first in the pre-teen solo category but the editing and the words on screen said "overall" and then Maddie said she beat Gino.

[NextIteration]

At this point I believe 100% that Abby is racist.

 

And beyond the Maya Angelou remark, I really think the "she can have children" comment was racially motivated.  I highly doubt she would've made that comment about Chloe, Kendall or Maddie (and I don't think that has anything to do with their relatively pubescence).

 

This right here, which is why I completely understood Dr. Holly's fury.

[Lemons]

I googled 2014 ALDC competition results. If you look at all the competitions, Maddie isn't always number 1.  Sure, she wins and that is the one that gets put on camera.  But she has also places 2, 3rd, and 4th and those results are not aired.  The other girls are winning on their own too.  Chloe's name has been missing on most of the results which seems to confirm she is no longer dancing with ALDC.  Good for her!

One of the shows "storyline" is that Maddie is unbeatable.  It's an ongoing thing, the other mom's react with anger and jealousy.  It's all part of the show.  No one, not even Abby, thinks that one dancer can win at everything or get every part they audition for.  There are too many exceptional dancers.  I think the show goes too far with the whole Maddie obsession and then people start to hate the child.  She is very talented, but of course there are children all around the country that are also talented. 

 

Kendall could also be an exceptional dancer but they are teaching her skills that are beyond her years.  Because of this she has poor posture, raised shoulders, poor feet.  She hasn't been given the chance to develop a solid foundation. 

[RalyWilmy]

Kendall could also be an exceptional dancer but they are teaching her skills that are beyond her years.  Because of this she has poor posture, raised shoulders, poor feet.  She hasn't been given the chance to develop a solid foundation. 

 

Very good point.  Kendall has absolutely no "pop" to me and I haven't been able to figure out why.  This makes sense.  I've seen this in the ballet world...girls are placed in levels above where they belong (mostly due to pushy mothers :)) and, while they could be fantastic if placed in the proper level, they end up looking awkward and ungraceful because their bodies are just not ready.

[Lemons]

Very good point.  Kendall has absolutely no "pop" to me and I haven't been able to figure out why.  This makes sense.  I've seen this in the ballet world...girls are placed in levels above where they belong (mostly due to pushy mothers :)) and, while they could be fantastic if placed in the proper level, they end up looking awkward and ungraceful because their bodies are just not ready.

Right.  When Kendall and Maddie did the same dance, Maddie had an easier time because she is more advanced even though she's the same age.  Maddie is the exception when it comes to this.   It was so advanced for Kendall that she couldn't really "dance" it, she was too busy trying to keep up with it.  She looks almost frantic sometimes.  She's a beautiful child, no doubt about that.

[takalotti]

I agree with the theories that have been suggested here about why Holly said that Abby had crossed a line.

But I also wonder if it had to do with Abby's comments about "You know this is how I teach, and you keep coming back year after year. If you don't like it, don't come back." In normal life, that's a reasonable comment. But on a reality show, where (a) you're under contract to keep coming back and (b) you're not supposed to talk about the fact that you're on a reality show, it's an unreasonable comment.

By saying that, Abby gets to shut down Holly's complaints and make her look irrational for always coming back, and Holly isn't allowed to defend herself because she can't talk about how her hands are tied on the show.

[Banshee]

On 09/10/2014 at 9:21 PM, BluishGreen said:

I am not a regular viewer and a first time poster on this thread, so forgive me if this is subject has been done and done.  Having seen this show now and then,  it seems quite clear that every time Nia gets any sort of featured performance, the music and theme is always, for lack of a better word, "ethnic."  The most recent examples were the Native American dance, an acro number that had some sort of "urban" vocal behind it and the "Maya Angelou number" Abby took away to punish NIa's mom for speaking up (yeah, she did that to her own student.)  Is Abby such a dolt that she can't see that dance isn't race-specific?  For heaven sake, one of the most beautiful, accomplished and talented dancers ever is Misty Copeland, who is African American and dances classical ballets.   Am I wrong to find Abby, along with her other horrible traits, to be  a narrow-minded idiot or, perhaps, a racist? 

Abby is the Queen of Inappropriateness,  so I wouldn't put anything past her.  And yeah,  she sees Nia as an "ethnic" dancer.  I remember when Nia was still a little kid.  Of all the dancers in a routine,  she dressed Nia in an animal-skin costume with a HUGE Afro wig.  Holly's face said it all. 

Misty is beautiful.  I haven't seen ABT in years,  so I never saw her in person,  but there is always YouTube. The ads she does make her look muscular,  but I saw her as a guest judge on SYTYCD,  and I was struck by how petite she really is.  Lovely dancer. I don't know if Abby is racist or not,  but she should give Nia some different solos.

[Fiero425]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 8:34 AM, RealityCowgirl said:

Actually, that's not a terrible leap with this one. Especially if intended to put her highly educated (and completely intimidating to the witch) mother "in her place." Good point.

On that topic, I can't help but imagine making Holly completely lose it might be the biggest thrill of all for the beast. The fact Holly usually can't be provoked in the same way the others can - and responds in ways that Beasty can't handle - seems to really get to her.

I'll give you "racially insensitive" because of how and where Abby was raised! I'm not ready to call her a racist! Nia just wasn't up to her standards which was why she got few solos or featured roles in groups! That's on Nia, not Abby! ;-)