S02.E05: Close Enough to Touch

[taanja]

11 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

I’m starting to wonder if it’s Miss Beaton who is playing Oscar. She’s clearly very intelligent but when it comes to business it’s all ‘I just can’t understand all these business words and I must bring Oscar to help me’. And it just happens the investment needs just a bit more money.

 

She is TOTALLY scamming Oscar! She is sharp and witty and very intelligent .. except when it comes to business and banking. She just can't seem to wrap her pretty little brain around such complex matters! She needs a MAN -- aka = Oscar to explain things to her. Haha!

i thought for sure something was going to happen to prevent the wedding. I was glad to see Agnes lend her support -- whether willingly or not -- at the end. The dramatic == stop the show! entrance was perfect!

I am thinking Gladys is destined for the Duke.

[taanja]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

I knew nothing about this and would have liked to have had this story expanded rather than "worry" about whether a conspiratorial waiter would spill soup on a Duke. As with the scene in a past episode with Edison lighting downtown for the first time, I don't get why this series continues to tease these far grander stories and then just lets leaves them fallow and instead focuses on ultimately meaningless drivel. There's only so much drama to be ringed out of "will the soup taste bad.

Ummmm.... because it's NOT a documentary?

it's historical drama! yo!

 So ... ramp up the angst please!

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The only thing that just doesn't make sense about this theory of Maud Beaton being in on the scam to me, if there is a scam, is that she didn't ask Oscar for help. She didn't ask him to come down to the office. She didn't ask Oscar for money.

No, but she told him about it and her concerns about it.

2 hours ago, AntFTW said:

Oscar is throwing himself into it. Nobody asked Oscar for his money, or even implied that they needed his money.

The man mentioned that they were this close to getting fully invested.  That's what good con men (and women) do.  They lay out a trap and wait for the rat to bite.

Edited November 27, 2023 by sugarbaker design

[iMonrey]

Quote

They were told by Booker Washington that they would be hidden in a safe place for the night, and would be put on the first train in the morning.  

A barn is a safe place? Which the local lynch mob just happened to pass right by? Lucky they didn't think to look inside. We needed another scene showing Peggy and Fortune being pursued, ditching the horse and buggy and hiding in the barn. Or something.

Quote

I think they said Schneider already works for the Wintertons, so if that's the case, he'll just go back to working for them.

When Turner said "he's working for me" I think she meant as a paid saboteur. Otherwise she would have said "he works for me." I don't think the chef would knowingly hire the Winterton's chef to help out.

Quote

Usually, I would ask why the Rev had to leave New York - wouldn't that be like almost a demotion? - but I don't think they'll go that route.

Do you mean why he had to leave Boston? Because the Bishop reassigned him. Which contradicts his promise to Agnes that he would never leave New York and take Ada away, since he'd already been forcibly reassigned so there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.

Quote

The only thing that just doesn't make sense about this theory of Maud Beaton being in on the scam to me, if there is a scam, is that she didn't ask Oscar for help. She didn't ask him to come down to the office. She didn't ask Oscar for money.

If she's in on a grift then why did she have a scene with Aurora asking if Oscar was just a fortune hunter? Fellowes isn't really subtle or clever enough to throw us off with a scene like that.

[chaifan]

I rewatched the scene with Aurora and Maud, and the scenes with Maud, Oscar and the "banker".  I am positive that this is a scam, and I'm about 95% sure Maud is in on it.  In the first scene, the banker makes Oscar promise to keep everything he knows a secret.  There wasn't anything as obvious in the second scene.  But just the tone of it screams scam.

In the scene with Aurora, there's nothing telling about it, but you could interpret the conversation as Maud fishing for information about Oscar's finances, or looking for an easy "out" for when she has to skip town. 

I'm going to go back to what I said upthread - if Maud and family are established NY, I don't think they're directly involved, also being scammed.  But if they aren't, and I honestly can't remember either way, then my guess is that they're elite grifters and go from big city to big city with this railway scam. 

And, one thing to add...  Aurora's husband needs to be on screen more.   He's rather dreamy.

[RachelKM]

49 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

When Turner said "he's working for me" I think she meant as a paid saboteur. Otherwise she would have said "he works for me." I don't think the chef would knowingly hire the Winterton's chef to help out.

I believe there was a mention in the kitchen when they realized he was doing something shady that he worked part time at the Wintertons'. Of course, this begs the question of why they were not concerned about him before. They all know turner and how vindictive she is.  She would have blocked any employee of her household from taking a job at the Russells' unless he was, at minimum, her spy.  Even if he was only a part time employee, she would have threatened him into not participating.

53 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Do you mean why he had to leave Boston? Because the Bishop reassigned him. Which contradicts his promise to Agnes that he would never leave New York and take Ada away, since he'd already been forcibly reassigned so there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.

He's on the older side and mentioned that he planned to retire in NY.  If that's the case, he could retire rather than move again even if a year or two earlier than initially planned. He may have also requested a guarantee that he be permitted to remain through retirement. 

55 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If she's in on a grift then why did she have a scene with Aurora asking if Oscar was just a fortune hunter? Fellowes isn't really subtle or clever enough to throw us off with a scene like that.

I agree.  It might be a scam. But I doubt very much that Maud is in on it.  Fellowes doesn't do complex and he generally uses broad trope signals for pretty much every character he rights.  The depth and/or complexity occasionally onscreen is entirely to the credit of the amazing actors he has the fortune to attract.  This is never more obvious than when one of the actors is not strong enough to elevate what's on the page and we're left with the barely more than outline of a person actually written.

[rollacoaster]

14 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The scene felt off. It was like the two white guys didn't belong in the scene. It felt like they were doing too much in the part.

Rather than appearing as convincing characters, they seemed like characters portrayed by actors who are trying to be convincing characters, and I wasn't convinced.

As a Black woman who grew up in and still lives in the south...that scene didn't feel off or contrived. It felt very true. That boorish behavior and the placating reactions to it felt pretty spot on. 

Sure, there was racism in New York, and Peggy has definitely experienced it. Black people in the south lived with a different kind, the violent, deadly kind that could erupt at any moment, for the slightest reason or no reason at all. 

Someone mentioned that Peggy is this series Edith, and I agree. This feels like, as the main Black character, she is burdened with carrying all the harshest realities of life and I don't like it. 

[ofmd]

3 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

See, I think Marion and Larry are fine by Bertha's standards:  ...

Oh, I agree. Romeo & Juliet was a bit hyperbolic on my part. Bertha would be thrilled, as it would give her what she desperately seeks: access to the IT girls, I mean the old money circles. Of course she may hold some resentment for being snubbed...

Now, Agnes otoh... She'd throw a fit. Maybe Larrion are lucky and Oscar somehow gets outed to her at the same time, so their union doesn't look as bad in her mind.

As for Oscar, would he be able to 'invest' the family money, not just his own? Because that would be interesting to watch: Agnes losing much of her wealth, maybe finding crafty ways to recover...

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by ofmd

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

The man mentioned that they were this close to getting fully invested.  That's what good con men (and women) do.  They lay out a trap and wait for the rat to bite.

Yes he mentioned it after Oscar asked about it. He didn’t come to Oscar with how much they raised. Oscar first asked if they had all the money they needed. Oscar went looking for that information.

14 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

As a Black woman who grew up in and still lives in the south...that scene didn't feel off or contrived. It felt very true. That boorish behavior and the placating reactions to it felt pretty spot on. 

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think the behavior of the white characters was unrealistic, but the portrayal of the characters were just unconvincing. I couldn’t see past the fact that I’m looking at actors, rather than racist Southern “good ole boys.”

When Armstrong does her coded racism in NY, I don’t feel like I’m looking at an actor playing a part. It feels like I’m watching an actual person from the 1880s rather than an actor playing a part.

[ofmd]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Do you mean why he had to leave Boston? Because the Bishop reassigned him. Which contradicts his promise to Agnes that he would never leave New York and take Ada away, since he'd already been forcibly reassigned so there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.

Yes, Boston, sorry. I know they get assigned/ reassigned by the Bishop, but I assumed they wouldn't do so without a reason, e.g. dissatisfaction with his service, or a scandal, if he is happy where he is (and not that young anymore).

I'm probably overthinking this, but good point about the chance he might get reassigned again! I have no knowledge about the actor's post-Dead Poets society, but still believe he might not be up to staying for several more seasons.

Then again, I can't imagine this show without Ada and her dynamic with Agnes, nor do I want the couple to break up... Maybe he retires before he can be reassigned.

I'm trying not to spoil myself about Bridge Architect Lady, so I won't look her up just yet.

Edited November 27, 2023 by ofmd

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

I know!  Marian is pretty but such a dull dishrag.  I can't see how any of these men are interested in her.

 

I believe it with the guy with his daughter, because he seems to be just looking for a wife and daughter and Marian's an obvious choice. He's not in love, but she's been showing herself to be a good mother.

3 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The only thing that just doesn't make sense about this theory of Maud Beaton being in on the scam to me, if there is a scam, is that she didn't ask Oscar for help. She didn't ask him to come down to the office. She didn't ask Oscar for money.

Oscar is throwing himself into it. Nobody asked Oscar for his money, or even implied that they needed his money.

That's how a con is supposed to work. You don't ask, you lay things out and let the other person think it's their idea to get involved.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Do you mean why he had to leave Boston? Because the Bishop reassigned him. Which contradicts his promise to Agnes that he would never leave New York and take Ada away, since he'd already been forcibly reassigned so there's nothing to prevent it from happening again.

I think he'd be able to reject it at this point because of his wife and her sister. Plus he seems like he might be able to retire if he had to.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

If she's in on a grift then why did she have a scene with Aurora asking if Oscar was just a fortune hunter? Fellowes isn't really subtle or clever enough to throw us off with a scene like that.

It would be a good way for her to fish around for how deep Oscar's pockets are, and also whether he's going to jump at the chance to earn money.

35 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

As a Black woman who grew up in and still lives in the south...that scene didn't feel off or contrived. It felt very true. That boorish behavior and the placating reactions to it felt pretty spot on. 

I didn't think the behavior was fake, it just felt like those guys were waiting outside for their cue to come in and start racist-ing so Peggy would get a wake up call. And being Peggy it seems like this is the type of thing that will ultimately make her more of an activist. Because she'll be able to run away back home but that poor woman running the restaurant is still getting sexually assaulted.

35 minutes ago, rollacoaster said:

Someone mentioned that Peggy is this series Edith, and I agree. This feels like, as the main Black character, she is burdened with carrying all the harshest realities of life and I don't like it. 

Yes, even those that aren't race related, like the baby story. I think it would be interesting for Ada to get interested in injustice, actually. She's got an Edith Bunker temperment, which makes her open-minded and believably someone who would care, and as a reverend Forte might do work that would bring it to her attention and get her out of the bubble she lives in now. 

[Haleth]

31 minutes ago, ofmd said:

I have no knowledge about the actor's post-Dead Poets society, but still believe he might not be up to staying for several more seasons.

He was on House for (I believe) the entire 8 season run. 

[tennisgurl]

I'm so relieved that the wedding actually happened, I was waiting for it to be called off until the very last possible second. Ada was absolutely glowing she looked so happy, and I'm really glad that we have already established that Reverend Forte doesn't care about money, he really just fell for Ada. He even called Agnes out for selfishly wanting to keep Ada with her even if its not the best thing for her, which takes some guts. Ada looked lovely in her wedding attire and she was so pleasantly surprised to see so many people at her wedding. 

I did feel a bit for Agnes, she's always had Ada with her and now she's looking at a much lonelier life, especially as Marion and Oscar are on the market for spouses. She did come around at least, I love that she showed up all dramatically late for a big entrance, because of course that's how Agnes will give her reluctant approval. 

I would like to see more of Auroras family life, her husband is quite dashing and they seem to have a nice relationship. 

I hope that Peggy gets back to New York soon, it feels like she's in a totally different show. I also hope her thing with the editor ends quickly, she deserves better than to be the Other Woman. 

I had never heard of Emily Roebling before this so I had to look her up, she's such an interesting lady! 

This is why there is no way that Turner can ever beat Bertha in this rivalry, while Bertha is manipulating the whole of high society she's playing middle school pranks to make her soup taste bad. She's playing hopscotch while people like Bertha and Mrs. Astor are playing chess. 

[AntFTW]

27 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

That's how a con is supposed to work. You don't ask, you lay things out and let the other person think it's their idea to get involved.

But it literally was Oscar's idea to get involved. If it wasn't Oscar's idea, I'm being conned too. 😂

[Roseanna]

6 hours ago, ofmd said:

I'm realizing now that Ada was never this show's Edith, Peggy is!

First the baby plot, now the "getting involved with a married man" plot... sigh. And I don't like Mr Fortune. There, I said it. Real Mr Fortune may have been nice and historically important, but show Fortune sucks.

I think this storyline, apart from the detachment of the rest of the show (both in geography and in tone), suffers most from being just there to get them to kiss (and maybe more). Mean racist scene, check. Heroine in distress, check. Hero coming to the rescue, check. Both being alone and in danger, check... "romantic" barn, check....

Well, some here have earlier written that, unlike Marian, Peggy has life experience but I haven't seen her learning of it. I don't of course think she whould have betrayed Marian's plan to elope with Raikes, but she shouldn't have encouraged it, either. An experienced woman would have at least asked: Why on earth does he want to rush things? 

Instead, Ada who was first presented nice enough but not so sharp as Agnes, made the right conclusion about coffers (whereas Agnes had no idea what was going on, not even after Marian came  back and Ada reacted oddly). Ada was also quite right when she said that Marian should talk openly to Agnes. 

[Roseanna]

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This is why there is no way that Turner can ever beat Bertha in this rivalry, while Bertha is manipulating the whole of high society she's playing middle school pranks to make her soup taste bad. She's playing hopscotch while people like Bertha and Mrs. Astor are playing chess. 

Yes, she is just silly. I wonder if Bertha may revenge on her after learning her tricks?

She is also so cold that it's difficult to understand why her husband married her.

 

[txhorns79]

7 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, she is just silly. I wonder if Bertha may revenge on her after learning her tricks?

I'm sure Bertha's page on Turner in her Burn Book is epic. 

[chaifan]

32 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

But it literally was Oscar's idea to get involved. If it wasn't Oscar's idea, I'm being conned too. 😂

Go watch a season or two of Leverage.  Then you'll know exactly how the con works.  OK, all the cons!  😁

But, yes, that's the point of a money/investment con.  You find your mark, someone that you know will want in, you don't make an ask, you wait for them to say they want in, you reject them, then reconsider, waffle a bit, then let them in.  They think it's all their idea, because no one specifically asked them to invest.

Seriously, watch Leverage.  It's silly, but it lays these things out pretty well. 

 

[AntFTW]

7 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Go watch a season or two of Leverage.  Then you'll know exactly how the con works.  OK, all the cons!  😁

But, yes, that's the point of a money/investment con.  You find your mark, someone that you know will want in, you don't make an ask, you wait for them to say they want in, you reject them, then reconsider, waffle a bit, then let them in.  They think it's all their idea, because no one specifically asked them to invest.

Seriously, watch Leverage.  It's silly, but it lays these things out pretty well. 

 

I'm aware of how financial scams work, but I'm not convinced that Maud Beaton is in on the scam, if there is a scam.

I don't disagree with anyone that something is off. It feels like Oscar will ultimately lose his money.

I'm just not convinced (yet) that Maud Beaton walked him into it. I'm convinced Oscar, being the fortune hunter that he is, walked himself into it. That's all. That's the only distinction I'm drawing.

Edited November 27, 2023 by AntFTW

[Carolina Girl]

55 minutes ago, Haleth said:

He was on House for (I believe) the entire 8 season run

Also played Daniel Day Lewis' grown son at the end of "The Age of Innocence" which is about the same period. 

I seriously doubt Turner gave two shits about the immediate consequences to either the footman or the chef.  Sure there was money involved.  But had the sauce gone out, the chef would have known who sabotaged it, especially since he had tasted it before serve.  He would have immediately singled out Schneider.  Same for the footman.  I imagine Church has authority to hire and fire male staff (except for the valet, which would be George's choice) and the footman would be gone.  

The difference between Bertha and Turner is that Turner is r

Turner is impulsive.  Bertha sees the long-term goal and plans.  

[AntFTW]

I really don't understand Turner's dislike of Bertha, specifically.

Sure, she was fired and sure, George rejected her advances... but she didn't like Bertha before any of that. I'd like to understand why.

Is it jealousy that Bertha experienced that upward mobility before she did?

[RachelKM]

23 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

I really don't understand Turner's dislike of Bertha, specifically.

Sure, she was fired and sure, George rejected her advances... but she didn't like Bertha before any of that. I'd like to understand why.

Is it jealousy that Bertha experienced that upward mobility before she did?

Essentially, yes.  From jump, it seemed apparent that Turner viewed Bertha as unworthy of her elevation in status. She was obviously jealous. But she also seemed to think that she would have made a better society woman because Bertha needed Turner's knowledge of the old money set's rules and her assistance to navigate her new and anticipated position in society.

Turner often sneered behind Bertha's back for what she perceived as Bertha's lack of polish and smugly (and wrongly) predicted Bertha's failure more than once.

Edited November 27, 2023 by RachelKM

[AntFTW]

12 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

Essentially, yes.  From jump, it seemed apparent that Turner viewed Bertha as unworthy of her elevation in status. She was obviously jealous. But she also seemed to think that she would have made a better society woman because Bertha needed Turner's knowledge of the old money set's rules and her assistance to navigate her new and anticipated position in society.

Turner often sneered behind Bertha's for what she perceived as Bertha's lack of polish and smugly (and wrongly) predicted Bertha's failure more than once.

That's so irrational. 😭 😭 😭

ETA: I was trying to see if there was anything about Turner that makes sense. She made pretty clear last season that she felt she would make a better wife for a wealthy man than Bertha. I recall that she felt that she would have an easier time fitting in with the Old Money crowd as a wealthy woman than Bertha. I just couldn't understand why does she aim her ire at Bertha, because none of that had anything to do with Bertha specifically, but it had everything to do with Turner. Bertha was not responsible for Turner's station in life so why was Bertha deserving of that hostility? It's just the simple explanation that Turner was/is jealous.

Edited November 27, 2023 by AntFTW

[Carolina Girl]

Now that we're discussing it, I wonder why Turner, who no doubt was a lady's maid to women of the Old Guard, came to find herself in the employ of someone of "new money."  A good lady's maid, as we've discussed before, is a prize among society and are not cut loose so easily (if for other reason than the secrets they know).  Of course, Turner's former employer could have died, or no longer needed tending for a variety of reasons, but certainly the next generation of daughters would need one once they came out. 

Turner saw this position as a step down and I'm of a mind to agree that Turner is indeed pissed as hell that Bertha broke through without her.  

Also, I absolutely don't buy that Bertha had still not engaged a lady's maid at this juncture.  Once Turner had been given the boot, it would have been the prime task for the Housekeeper to get her a new lady's maid.  Not having one was considered declassee and Bertha is all about the appearances.  (Best discussion of lady's maids can be found in the movie "Gosford Park" (also Fellowes) - and this takes place in the 1930's when it was less important).  

[AntFTW]

2 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Now that we're discussing it, I wonder why Turner, who no doubt was a lady's maid to women of the Old Guard, came to find herself in the employ of someone of "new money."  A good lady's maid, as we've discussed before, is a prize among society and are not cut loose so easily (if for other reason than the secrets they know).  Of course, Turner's former employer could have died

I believe that was it. Her former employer died.

4 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Also, I absolutely don't buy that Bertha had still not engaged a lady's maid at this juncture.  Once Turner had been given the boot, it would have been the prime task for the Housekeeper to get her a new lady's maid.  Not having one was considered declassee and Bertha is all about the appearances.

That also makes me wonder who is Turner's lady maid. We're seeing that Bertha is having a difficult time finding a lady's maid, and I wonder if Turner had, or has, the same difficulty.

[Carolina Girl]

3 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

That also makes me wonder who is Turner's lady maid. We're seeing that Bertha is having a difficult time finding a lady's maid, and I wonder if Turner had, or has, the same difficulty.

I doubt that Turner's lady's maid (should she have one) came from the established ranks.  She would definitely have nabbed a newbie since the servant community (and especially lady's maids) all knew one another, and Turner would be outed quickly. 

Turner has to know that Mrs. Astor already knows who/what she was and perhaps is concerned that for that reason she's going to see very few, if any, invitations from the Old Guard once word gets around.  I think this is why the subplot about the valet being an embarrassment to his daughter is being offered this season - we see the fate that awaits Turner - after all,  if there was no "shame" in it, she would have admitted it her husband when he asked.  

I do notice that Mrs. Fish and Aurora Fane have no trouble moving in the Russell's orbit.  And yes, folks, get ready for poor Consuelo Vanderbilt  Gladys Russell being marriage fodder for the Duke.  I only hope that George and Bertha don't follow that other path of the Willie K and Alma story and divorce....

[RedDelicious]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I feel like we learned that the guy Lane is playing actually did talk like that--he hammed up his own accent so in this case it's historically accurate.

I'm not from Boston so can't speak to authenticity but I've really loved RSL's accent. It's very soft and doesn't sound like he's trying to do a whole Boston accent thing like in a Ben Affleck movie. It's endearing and very pleasant!

Laugh emoji because of the Ben Affleck movie reference. Side note, in The Town Jeremy Renner did a better Boston accent than frigging Ben Affleck who has Dunkin running through his veins. You grew up right he-ah, same rules rules that I did!

Seriously though, Robert Sean Rector is doing a lovely job. Perfectly nuanced.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I rewatched the scene with Aurora and Maud, and the scenes with Maud, Oscar and the "banker".  I am positive that this is a scam, and I'm about 95% sure Maud is in on it.  In the first scene, the banker makes Oscar promise to keep everything he knows a secret.  There wasn't anything as obvious in the second scene.  But just the tone of it screams scam.

Does anyone understand what this scam is? Does anyone know what Maud's family does for a living? What kind of business they are in? Does anyone understand who, exactly, she and Oscar went to see? Family business manager? Lawyer? I don't get what's going on here, at all.

The only thing I gathered from that brief scene is that someone (Maud's family? Some other company they invest in?) is buying up two railroads. Then in the 2nd scene Oscar said he wanted to invest. In what? The railroads? Some company?

Why did this guy need Maud's signature? What position does she hold?

If anyone can explain any of this, thanks in advance.

[Sarah 103]

20 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wonder if Bertha would approve of Marian as a bride for Larry. She comes from a good family but might not be as upwardly mobile as Bertha would like.

I think Bertha would approve. Marian is from a good old money family. She is highly unlikely to do anything that would cause a scandal or harm Bertha's social climbing schemes/desires.   

Agnes would not approve of the marriage at all, because she would see Larry as not only new money, but also would think his job is only slightly better than a tradesman.    

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's not like racism didn't exist in New York. It just felt like Peggy was shoved aside into a completely different show.

I wish the series would explore the more subtle racism of New York, and also the world/enclave the educated Black elite managed to carve out for themselves. Most people know the story of the post-Reconstruction South and how awful it was. The story of the educated Black elite in the north doesn't feel like a story we've been told/heard a million times before. Peggy's story in New York is something new and different and something I want more of. 

11 hours ago, Haleth said:

Youza, that scene post dinner with George and Bertha just talking?  There was some seriously steamy chemistry going on there.

Best scene of the episode for me. The way he unhooked her necklace felt so intimate. I loved the way her immediate first reaction when he told her about his business/work problem was essentially "What can I do to help?" I loved the way he looked at her when she asked if he was coming to bed. It was practically a smoldering look. Individually, they are pretty horrible people, but as a couple they are amazing; I root for them and throughly enjoy their scenes together. 

10 hours ago, ofmd said:

All in all, Ada and Dead Poets Rev were my favorite storyline. I would have liked to see a bit more about how society reacted to them. Would the marriage have been considered appropriate? I know expectations were different with a "spinster," but still.

We may get that in future episodes. I do not see why it would be a problem. There's no question Ada was marrying someone beneath her, but it was still a respected educated member of the community. Also, I think Agnes is very "You can't say that about my sister. Only I can say that about my sister." Anyone who tried to snub Ada would experience the wrath of Agnes.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Sarah 103

[AntFTW]

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Does anyone understand what this scam is? Does anyone know what Maud's family does for a living? What kind of business they are in?

Railroads.

The deal that Oscar knows about is a railroad acquisition.

We don't have any details of a scam. It just feels like a scam. The lawyer-person (whoever he is) seems to say all the buzzwords that may suggest its a scam, and gives the feeling that Oscar ultimately is going to lose his money.

All we know is that Maud says she doesn't want to be a apart of it anymore, but she has a difficult time saying 'no' to her father. Oscar then volunteers to help her because he's a banker. Oscar goes down to this office with Maud Beaton and asks a bunch of questions. The guy answers Oscar's questions, and later Oscar comes back and invests money.

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Why did this guy need Maud's signature? What position does she hold?

According to Maud Beaton, her father has businesses and/or assets under her name. Therefore, I imagine that she's either a majority shareholder or sole shareholder, or at the very least, an officer of the company that is under her name.

Edited November 27, 2023 by AntFTW

[cardigirl]

I'm enjoying this season a bit more that last season, but am I the only person who was rooting for Turner's scheme to work? I would love to see Bertha taken down a peg or two.  *evil laugh*

[txhorns79]

9 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I wish the series would explore the more subtle racism of New York, and also the world/enclave the educated Black elite managed to carve out for themselves.

I think they delved into some of that last season.  There was the scene in Bloomingdale's where Peggy very much did not want to go inside the store, and then was probably very close to being asked to leave until (Marian?) or Ms. Chamberlain(?) stepped in to help her.  Also, when Marian went to Brooklyn to see Peggy and brought over old shoes because she decided in her own head that as a black woman, Peggy must come from some kind of poverty and need donations.     

[ChlcGal]

6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I'm enjoying this season a bit more that last season, but am I the only person who was rooting for Turner's scheme to work? I would love to see Bertha taken down a peg or two.  *evil laugh*

Probably not the only one, but my guess would be it's a minority.  Personally, I like Bertha even with her flaws.  Mostly because I can't remember Bertha ever being embarrassed about her humble beginnings.  Turner is just ridiculous, especially with her lies to her husband about her former life.

In regards to Ada and Forte, I don't see an issue with the speed of the marriage nor his possible motive for marrying her.  I think it's all on the up and up.

Edited November 27, 2023 by ChlcGal

[OtterMommy]

There have been some posts comparing The Gilded Age to Downton Abbey.  There is actually a thread for just this conversation: Fellowes Fellows: Comparing The Gilded Age to other Julian Fellowes Shows.

 

Because not everyone who watches The Gilded Age watched Downton Abbey, please keep the DA/TGA comparisons in that thread.  Thanks!

[rollacoaster]

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I didn't think the behavior was fake, it just felt like those guys were waiting outside for their cue to come in and start racist-ing so Peggy would get a wake up call. And being Peggy it seems like this is the type of thing that will ultimately make her more of an activist. Because she'll be able to run away back home but that poor woman running the restaurant is still getting sexually assaulted.

Yes, even those that aren't race related, like the baby story. I think it would be interesting for Ada to get interested in injustice, actually. She's got an Edith Bunker temperment, which makes her open-minded and believably someone who would care, and as a reverend Forte might do work that would bring it to her attention and get her out of the bubble she lives in now. 

Heh. Your use of racist-ing made me chuckle. I get your point. 

Yes, I'd love to see Ada take an interest in tackling injustice, too. I feel that, last season, she seemed more...worldly? Aware? Slightly more feisty? She seems dumbed down and more sheltered this season. 

[Jodithgrace]

I no longer have any doubts about the reverend’s sincerity. The fact that Ada did have the guts to defy Agnes and marry him, makes me a believer. After all, it would be a terrible plot device to have Agnes proven right! 

When Agnes visited Reverend Luke to deliver her sob story, I was sure that she was laying it on thick, with the barely repressed sobs, but also that she was telling the absolute truth. The reverend handled her perfectly, explaining how much more alone she would be if Ada and her husband cut her out of their lives. 

IMO, Fortune is too handsome, pretty almost. He looks like he was created by AI. And he was a damn fool in that restaurant scene with the OTT racists. I guess it’s too much to hope that Peggy kicks him to the curb once they are safely back in NY.

 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I'm enjoying this season a bit more that last season, but am I the only person who was rooting for Turner's scheme to work? I would love to see Bertha taken down a peg or two.  *evil laugh*

It's like Turner has to be so odious because if it was anybody else we'd all be rooting for them!

[DiabLOL]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I'm enjoying this season a bit more that last season, but am I the only person who was rooting for Turner's scheme to work? I would love to see Bertha taken down a peg or two.  *evil laugh*

I am totally Team Turner and also Team Oscar. I have no problem with them doing what they’ve been doing to get the lives of their dreams in a ridiculous society. George is an actual villain and Bertha supports that. Of course I understand why so many viewers like watching their personal stories though but I find their burning love a bit improbable given how long they’ve been together. 

[RedDelicious]

12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Some young men are charmed by pretty face and have to endure a dull wife during the rest of life (cf. Mr and Mrs Bennett in Austen's Pride and Prejudice).

See also Newland and May Archer in The Age of Innocence!

Couple of other thoughts. The restaurant scene with the two men felt like something out of Little House on the Prairie. The acting itself was a bit over the top, as otherwise serious scenes in Little House often were. Like Laura pushing Nellie in her wheelchair down the hill and into a pond. The overacting is distracting to the point that the viewer loses the gravity (no pun) of the situation. 

Wrapping up my thoughts on Oscar and I put it in a spoiler because I’m not sure about speculation. 

Spoiler

I thought Maud Beaton’s biological father is Jay Gould and I’m going on the assumption that he set up some form of trust fund for her. I thought the banker is her money manager. My guess is he’s mishandling her funds and I’m hoping Oscar discovers what he’s doing and stops it before the banker loses all her money from Gould. 

I’ve had the fortune to be a guest at some dinner parties where the courses were served like the soup ballet. It was really cool.

Edited November 28, 2023 by RedDelicious

[AntFTW]

16 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

Spoiler

I thought Maud Beaton’s biological father is Jay Gould and I’m going on the assumption that he set up some form of trust fund for her. I thought the banker is her money manager. My guess is he’s mishandling her funds and I’m hoping Oscar discovers what he’s doing and stops it before the banker loses all her money from Gould.

 

I like that theory. When Aurora Fane brought Maud Beaton to Oscar's attention, she said the rumor is that her father is Jay Gould, but officially, her father is "the late John Beaton."

Edited November 28, 2023 by AntFTW

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, AntFTW said:

I like that theory. When Aurora Fane brought Maud Beaton to Oscar's attention, she said the rumor is that her father is Jay Gould, but officially, her father is "the late John Beaton."

Didn't Oscar ask about Gould when talking to the lawyer/banker/whateverthefuckheis? He wanted to know if Gould was in. Mr. Mystery Occupation Man said that was confidential. 

[AntFTW]

8 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Didn't Oscar ask about Gould when talking to the lawyer/banker/whateverthefuckheis? He wanted to know if Gould was in. Mr. Mystery Occupation Man said that was confidential. 

Yes, Oscar did ask "was Mr. Gould satisfied?" He didn't really answer the question. He just seem pretty annoyed at how much Oscar knows and that he is asking all the questions, and asked not to reveal any information that Oscar was given.

LOL @ "whateverthefuckheis"

[sistermagpie]

40 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

I am totally Team Turner and also Team Oscar. I have no problem with them doing what they’ve been doing to get the lives of their dreams in a ridiculous society.

Welll, Oscar is. Turner got the life of her dreams and now keeps doing things to put it in jeopardy because her true dream is to stick it to the woman she used to work for!

[AntFTW]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Welll, Oscar is. Turner got the life of her dreams and now keeps doing things to put it in jeopardy because her true dream is to stick it to the woman she used to work for!

Only for emotional satisfaction in return.

Spoiler

Looking at the trailer for the next episode, I'm thinking that she's going to try to sabotage Bertha's plans for The Met.

Edited November 28, 2023 by AntFTW

[DiabLOL]

11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Welll, Oscar is. Turner got the life of her dreams and now keeps doing things to put it in jeopardy because her true dream is to stick it to the woman she used to work for!

For sure! She should leave (more than) well enough alone. She is risking it all but I fully understand the spite impulse.

Edited November 28, 2023 by DiabLOL
Grammar

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

For sure! She should leave (more than) well enough alone. She is risking it all but I fully understand the spite impulse.

For me, that's part of what's so weird. Because it's all coming from Turner. She's not spiteful to Bertha because Bertha did something to her, she was trying to destroy her personally and socially just for doing exactly what Turner is trying to do.

It seems like a real bitch eating crackers situation for Turner!

[Tango64]

22 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The entrance of the racist white guys did feel like a theatrical cue, although I'm sure it's realistic that they would do that.

Love the show but alas, it can be a bit heavy handed sometimes. They showed a shot of the restaurant door for no reason as Peggy and the guy were eating, and I said, “Someone’s going to burst through that door soon.” Sure enough, 10 seconds later and here come the racist white men.

in the previous episode where Peggy knocked on his door one morning, I said, “He’s going to be shirtless when he answers.” And yep, he was.

The hay loft scene did a disservice to what it must have been like in that terrifying situation. I doubt many black people went from “Oh my God, we’re going to be lynched and burned alive!” to romantic first kiss and embrace within 60 seconds. 

[buckboard]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:33 AM, BeatrixK said:

But Gladys is so completely uninterested in the Duke - however I can't figure out if they are going to love triangle her or just let her Nope out of courtship with the Duke because she just isn't into him?  George said he would only let her marry for love and Bertha wants to host a Royal Wedding and them get her some of them royal grandkids, so I can see this being a thing unless the Duke turns on the charm PDQ with Gladys.  But there aren't any potential suitors I can see for the poor kid and it's getting late in the season for them to bring in a new dude for her. 

Consuelo Vanderbilt was 18, about the same age as Gladys when her mother forced her to marry a British duke.  Consuelo was vehemently against marrying the duke, but her mother eventually got her way.  (It's a long and fascinating story, but this is probably not the place to go into it.)  It was a loveless marriage for both parties, but considerable money was involved to save the duke's palace.  Perhaps a similar situation will arise with the Russells.  It apparently was pretty common for wealthy Americans in the Gilded Age to marry off their daughters into English aristocracy.
  -- Edited per correction by Roseanna

Edited November 30, 2023 by buckboard

[DiabLOL]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

For me, that's part of what's so weird. Because it's all coming from Turner. She's not spiteful to Bertha because Bertha did something to her, she was trying to destroy her personally and socially just for doing exactly what Turner is trying to do.

It seems like a real bitch eating crackers situation for Turner!

Yes! She was always such an obsessive hater. I love her. In the previous season the rest of the staff was always shocked by the stuff she was saying about Bertha not measuring up. 
 

 

[AntFTW]

11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

For me, that's part of what's so weird. Because it's all coming from Turner. She's not spiteful to Bertha because Bertha did something to her, she was trying to destroy her personally and socially just for doing exactly what Turner is trying to do.

It seems like a real bitch eating crackers situation for Turner!

That's why I Turner doesn't make sense to me. I can't rationalize the shit she does.

It seems like Turner believes she's better than Bertha, and also feels like she's competing with Bertha... but why? It doesn't to have to be a competition. She couldn't just be happy with her box at the Academy and her rich OId Money husband.

Edited November 28, 2023 by AntFTW