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The Musketeers

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5 minutes ago, justmehere said:

I could be wrong, but I believe that "All Episodes Talk" means all episodes and no spoiler tags needed.

What led me here this week was a notification stating that someone had quoted my post of May 15, which I made before the series started on Hulu, before there were episode threads here.   I clicked on the link to see if I needed to reply.   Spoilers didn't occur to me.

That said, is it so difficult to put things in spoilers, even if just for the first month?   Not everybody binge watches, you know.  

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I enjoyed this episode for many reasons.  I wasn't sure how it would fare overall by separating the Musketeers but by the end of the episode, I felt it had done a good job of getting the Feron arc wrapped up (though I wasn't expecting it to end mid way through this season) and Louis & Aramis at a point of absolute truth.  Louis is dying and I'm glad that he knows all.  How he proceeds will be done with the full weight of knowing everything.  He's never been an intelligent leader but things look better for his legacy with Treville at his side, IMO.

I half expected Aramis to lie to the king, if only to protect Anne from more of Louis' coldness and hate.  Interesting choice of how that whole scene played out.

Feron being extremely and silently mobile is nonsense - no way should he have been able to sneak up on anyone in such a quiet place.  But plot...

Grimaud also seems to be uber fast with no explanation.  There was no fog to hide him this time either. 

The Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid stuff with Porthos and d'Artagnan was well done, I think.  A great blend of humor, action and heart.  D'Artagnan and Constance work solidly for me, but I would have liked to have a scene where they talk about their hopes for a family. They don't seem to be on the same page in terms of having kids?  Kind of a big thing in a marriage.  Also, why not have a scene of them happy that he didn't die in the crumbled heap of stone? 

Porthos' wistfulness for his own future. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...............................

Athos being able to be snuck up on.  At first I thought I was rolling my eyes at this but changed my mind quickly.  His developing relationship with Sylvie indicates that he can walk away from his job at times, and that may be healthier for him.  Except when he gets snuck up on by thungs and they beat him up.  Still, it was interesting to see him vulnerable but not knocked completely down and out.

Grimaud and Marcheaux consistently underestimate how durable and persistent the Musketeers are - with the theme of this show, that satisfies me.

Not looking forward to more Gaston.  He's not a character that I enjoy on any front yet.  He and Marcheaux seem very one dimensional and cartoonish.  Feron was layered and more compelling to watch. 

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Episode two has finally aired in the UK!

I enjoyed that we were shown how rusty Aramis is without anyone coming out and saying it - we were shown that he was training with Porthos and Athos and not coming off too well, without either one pointing out his lack of recent training to him, and we saw Sylvie getting the better of him, again without anyone calling him out for being out-of-practice; the audience was trusted to grasp the point.

When Louis made that little comment to Anne about the Musketeers being back in Paris, "all four of them" - either there are only four left of the entire regiment, or he was simply trusting her to know which four he meant! The latter being the case, of course. I was intrigued by his little dig about the life of a celibate monk not suiting Aramis - that sounded very pointed, but in last season's finale we saw Louis accept and seemingly truly believe that Rochefort's accusations against Anne and Aramis were entirely unfounded. So either that little dig didn't mean what it sounded like, or a grain of uncertainty has been quietly festering all these years after all. Perhaps that at least partially explains his obsession with the Dauphin. He's clinging to his son against all doubt.

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10 hours ago, Llywela said:

Episode two has finally aired in the UK!

I enjoyed that we were shown how rusty Aramis is without anyone coming out and saying it - we were shown that he was training with Porthos and Athos and not coming off too well, without either one pointing out his lack of recent training to him, and we saw Sylvie getting the better of him, again without anyone calling him out for being out-of-practice; the audience was trusted to grasp the point.

When Louis made that little comment to Anne about the Musketeers being back in Paris, "all four of them" - either there are only four left of the entire regiment, or he was simply trusting her to know which four he meant! The latter being the case, of course. I was intrigued by his little dig about the life of a celibate monk not suiting Aramis - that sounded very pointed, but in last season's finale we saw Louis accept and seemingly truly believe that Rochefort's accusations against Anne and Aramis were entirely unfounded. So either that little dig didn't mean what it sounded like, or a grain of uncertainty has been quietly festering all these years after all. Perhaps that at least partially explains his obsession with the Dauphin. He's clinging to his son against all doubt.

I enjoyed Aramis' skills being rusty as well without it being highlighted blatantly.  He clearly has skills a plenty (as seen in the previous episode) but he needs practice and training. 

I wasn't sure what to make of Louis' comment about the Musketeer's return to Anne either - it certainly felt and sounded like a dig.  Which makes no sense given the last we saw in the season 2 finale.  There was a distinct coldness from him towards Anne throughout the episode, so I could only assume that Louis has been festering for 4 years or so.  Based on what, though?  Will we find out?

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I've been wondering when this was coming back and  just found out about this Hulu bullshit today.  What the fuck, BBC America?  This was one of the few things besides Orphan Black, Dr Who, and Graham Norton that were worth watching.  So what does this do?  Free up more time for reruns of the Fox version of Kitchen Nightmares?  I could do the Hulu trial of course but I HATE bingewatching - I enjoy the breather between episodes, partly to talk about it online, or IRL for that matter.  I am pissed.

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I can't tell you how upset I was to have to get Hulu to see the series.  The best thing about it though is I was able to go back to Series 1 and 2 to recall some details. I was also able to see "Line of Duty," which was amazing. I am so disappointed in BBC America, similar to the decision to discontinue Law and Order UK.  Kept it beyond the free trial, but don't really see anything else on Hulu that is worth watching.  They also canceled Copper, so I am wondering what I actually watch on that channel. 

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I ended up binge watching the 3rd season on Hulu during the free week trial and then went out and bought seasons 1 and 2 on Amazon streaming, since I think my whole family will end up enjoying the series and rewatching favorite episodes from time to time.  We'll purchase Season 3 when it's available.

I don't know what the ratings were in the UK but I suspect they weren't good - the network doesn't seem to be promoting the show at all.  And there's been no mention that I can find that it's even on Hulu for American viewers. 

The show's official Facebook page hasn't been updated since June 2015.  The scheduling on BBC One appears to be a confusing mess (I'm in the US and only saw some tweets and FB comments about it).  It feels like the show that the network made and then forgot about.  Which is a shame, because it's a well done (and expensively made) series and could be generating far more revenue on this side of the Atlantic if the BBC and Huly even attempted to promote it.

I only heard about the 3rd season on Hulu from some friends on Twitter who were also fans of it.  I had lost track of when Season 3 was coming and then was disappointed that it would be the last season.

Such an odd way to end a series...

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I don't know if it was specifically done to age the characters, but everybody's beards seem longer this year. Not sure whether I like that or not, though Ryan Gage's beard is (dare I say this about Louis the Wimp?) downright hot. (As is Tom Burke. He's always seemed like a pleasant enough chap in the things I've seen him in before, except when the part called for him to be nasty like in Casanova, but slap a little facial hair and an unkempt coif and...ROWR!) I did like Athos' complex reaction to Sylvie's kiss at the end. Tom Burke did a great job of showing about a dozen different emotions in the space of 30 seconds or so, "Well, gohhh-LEE!" not being the least of them. I really hope we don't see some kind of rivalry with Aramis develop over her. In fact, though I didn't really mind her that much when she was fighting the bad guys, I could do without seeing her at again at all.

I also hope this season doesn't turn into "Musketeers: Boy Detectives," which it seemed to threaten to do when they discussed Porthos being out looking into "a hunch." 

Seeing Louis flat on the ground because of what seemed to be some kind of fainting attack that he faked his way out of when everybody came running last week makes me nervous--it seemed a definite projection of poor health, at the least, for the poor boy king. I haven't read the book, and I don't know that I've seen a film production in the last 20 years (the '70s Richard Lester films is what's always stayed in my mind) but I seem to remember the whole thing ends rather tragically. This being the last season of the TV show makes me kind of dread what may be coming. 

Was that a lump of opium Feron was slicing into his wine? I assumed it was some kind of seed at first--in fact, I assumed it was an innocent spice at first, like nutmeg--until he got obvious about the pain-killing aspect of it. It definitely wasn't a poppy seed, though I wonder if that's what they were trying to suggest. (Ironically, I saw this on the day I read a Washington Post feature about the astonishing rate of opiate addiction in the rural parts of America, and the toll it's taking, so it was on my mind.)

I know they used variants of poppy products in the 17th century, but I don't know about classic Chinese opium paste in France at that time. Though the more I get curious and look up the history they're supposed to be depicting, like Wikipedia biographies of Louis XIII and XIV, and the Wars of Religion, the more I realize this show is historically hopeless. Which is fine, since it doesn't make any promises otherwise, but I do have to remind myself of that sometimes when I'm watching it. 

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23 minutes ago, DCWash said:

I also hope this season doesn't turn into "Musketeers: Boy Detectives," which it seemed to threaten to do when they discussed Porthos being out looking into "a hunch." 

Seeing Louis flat on the ground because of what seemed to be some kind of fainting attack that he faked his way out of when everybody came running last week makes me nervous--it seemed a definite projection of poor health, at the least, for the poor boy king. I haven't read the book, and I don't know that I've seen a film production in the last 20 years (the '70s Richard Lester films is what's always stayed in my mind) but I seem to remember the whole thing ends rather tragically. This being the last season of the TV show makes me kind of dread what may be coming.

But the show has been CSI: Paris 1632 since season one - the Musketeers have always gone around playing detective, there was nothing new about the scenario here.

I have read the book (the first one anyway) quite recently, and can assure you that it would not help to predict future plots - the show has never made any attempt to follow book continuity, it's a 'based on' production, rather than an 'adaptation of' and has followed a completely different storyline and continuity, the only resemblance it bears to the book are basic set-up, character names and a few personality traits. My hazy knowledge of 17th century French history is what makes me nervous for Louis! And yes, the beard really does suit Ryan Gage :D

I'm not sure either what Feron was slicing up as his pain relief, but I'm certain I've seen something similar before, I just can't put a name to it.

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Word on the street, as it were, is that Season 3 only was greenlit thanks to international viewership -- and I don't mean American; there's probably a reason it aired in Turkey well before it showed up on BBC. They dropped the ball with promotion in the second season and only seem to have gotten worse in the third, and it sounds like there was significant viewer dropoff. With all that, I'm not entirely surprised it went to streaming rather than cable in America, especially if Hulu was willing to pay and BBC saw that as a way to recoup some of their losses.

(There were some announcements about it going on Hulu, writersblock51 -- I remember seeing them linked on Tumblr -- but I can't recall specifics, and while I've long since dropped my Hulu subscription and have no interest in reviving it, I also don't recall seeing any promotional material related to this.)

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That would make sense, @charis - that it was shown in its entirety in Turkey first.  I've seen a few comments here and there about it.  Whatever announcements had been made about it going to Hulu went unnoticed by me.  That's not a problem for me since I ended up doing the 1-week free thing. 

I'm just disappointed that the show seemed to do poorly enough that the BBC made it then dumped it, so to speak.  The efforts of the cast and crew to put together a visually stunning, well acted and fun on many levels show seems to be unappreciated by the BBC.  That's a shame.  I'm enjoying Season 3 and glad it was made. 

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I enjoyed season 3 as well. It is a shame that the BBC is treating it so poorly with the scheduling issues. I am sorry that there has been a lot of negative reaction to Season 3 

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What's interesting to me is that this is the year The Guardian has really been praising the show in it's TV section, despite the mess the BBC has made with scheduling, etc. Well, not PRAISING as in calling it the best thing since sliced bread, because it's not like this is "Happy Valley" or "The Hollow Crown" or anything, but talking about the high production values and saying things like "solidly entertaining and smarter than it has to be." 

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There's a lot to love about S3 for me. S1 took a lot of time to find its stride imo and I liked it better the second time around than the first, so I don't think that S3 was inferior to it.

Out of four Musketeers, I loved the storyline for three of them. 75% of love is quite a nice ratio. My problem was the fourth and unfortunately it hogged way too much airtime for my taste whereas I was unable to involve emotionally, rationally, or in any way or shape. I FFed a LOT of it in the last episodes. If he were my favorite I'd be majorly pissed off but he wasn't so I'm just disappointed and wish he had a more fitting (imo) ending. My favorite OTOH had everything I wanted for them and even more, I loved their storyline, I give a huge big thumb up to this season and the series as whole if only for them.

I don't know if I can be more specific on this thread and I don't want to use tons of spoiler bars if I'm not supposed to so I'll leave it at that.

In spite of the show being mistreated by its own network (oh, yeah it was) I'm glad that it had a proper ending. It felt a bit rushed so the writers might have started the season with the hope to have another one afterwards, but at least it has a beginning, a middle and an end that mostly makes sense. Being able to look back on a show and think you didn't waste your time is very much quite nice as far as TV goes.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Since the show is airing in the UK now and not everyone has caught up with the season on Hulu, I have marked this thread with the spoilers tag which means you can discuss the complete show without tags. I will remove it once the show begins to wind down in the UK. Thank you.

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@Happy Harpy - now you have me wondering whose storyline you didn't like.  I was pretty happy with how things wrapped up in the end (the sap in me liked that things went so differently than in the first book).

All told, I liked how things played out for the main characters and would have ADDED a few scenes but I can't think of any scenes I would have removed.   There is only 1 character that I felt was greatly unused in S3.  If things had been different for that actor off screen, I wonder how season 3 would have transpired.

BTW - I'm confused about how specific to get also.  I don't want to ruin anything for fans who may peek in here and haven't seen the rest of S3 yet.

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On 6/1/2016 at 11:56 AM, atomationage said:

Did anyone get a good view of the cartoon of Anne and her latest lover that was being passed around?   I couldn't figure out who it was supposed to be, and I looked pretty closely.  Maybe it was supposed to be Aramis, but to my eyes, it could have been Treville.

I suppose Grimaud won't die until the final episode.   I want Matt Stokoe's character to go over to the good side, but maybe that's expecting too much. 

I don't think the other person on the flyer was Aramis - he would have reacted differently when he saw it, I think.

I liked this episode a great deal and was surprised at how much was covered in it.  They literally covered a lot of ground in the hour and moved quite a bit of story forward.

The costumes for the women have been lacking all season.  I think Sylvie has 1 outfit.  The Queen has about 3 (the white one for the Dauphin's birthday was gorgeous, though, one of my favorites she's worn all series) and Constance has 2.  Milady looked spectacular, then again, she always does, IMO.

Aramis losing his mind at his brothers because they didn't shoot him AND Grimaud was a bit gut wrenching.  The lying and the frustration of peace NOT achieved AND Grimaud inexplicably escaping made for a very tense and well done scene. 

D'Artagnan seems to have completely lost all contact with his family in Gascony.  I was actually surprised by that.

It was a bit unnerving to see Porthos a bit wobbly on his feet.

Marchaux still seems to have it in for Constance - is he still that upset because of how she humiliated him in 3X01 or was there more to it?  He's a bit fixated on her throughout this season and I'm not sure that 1 incident justifies it.  When D'Artagnan asked her, back in 3X02, about her and Marchaux, she blew it off.  Just seems like an odd thread of hostility Marchaux has for her that the writing hasn't filled in.

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The mod posted that we can talk about details.

If you are referring Maimie McCoy's pregnancy as the reason she was not in this season much, that's been mentioned in the mainstream press.

I thought the romance between Athos and Sylvie took up too much time and was not very interesting. Sylvie was not a compelling character and Athos worked better as the brooding loner..

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I liked Sylvie, and I liked Athos' conflict this season. I don't think I would take any of their scenes out, like I said above. But I would have added some, as I have questions.

I felt that there were missing scenes -

- gaps such as Porthos and Elodie (spelling?) coming together rather quickly (I like them both but it seemed very rushed)

- what did Porthos do with the young king at the end of 3X09 to keep him safe?

- just a few scenes of married D'Artagnan and Constance dealing with how they've both changed during the war (and their very different takes on what they want in terms of a family) - it was nice to see Constance in other arcs that didn't revolve around D'Artagnan but sometimes it was as if they weren't even together

- Louis said he'd make sure Aramis never had contact with the Queen and the Dauphin (which he clearly did not do - so why bother saying it?) - empty threats of that magnitude should be followed up on

- since when did Athos want a life in the country? That puzzled me a bit

and so on.

In the end, I think Milady suffered the most.  She was on a redemption arc at the end of S2, which I'm not sure I bought but I wanted to see what happened to her next.  She's a complex character and I think she was ultimately wasted on S3.  She seemed to be brought in to push Athos closer to Sylvie at the risk of her own characterization.  And I felt disappointment about that.   It just seemed too neat of an ending between her and Athos, and they were anything but 'neat' and tidy.

I know the actress' pregnancy was the biggest factor in how much she was in S3. 

The previous 2 seasons had focused on D'Artagnan/Constance, Aramis/Anne and Athos/Milady. Porthos really didn't have much going on romantically though his relationship with Aramis was always one of my favorites throughout the series.  Season 3 seemed focused solely on Athos/Sylvie with little bits and pieces of Aramis/Anne, D'Artagnan/Constance and then Porthos/Elodie.  Not quite as balanced as the other seasons, I suppose.

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5 hours ago, orza said:

I thought the romance between Athos and Sylvie took up too much time and was not very interesting. Sylvie was not a compelling character and Athos worked better as the brooding loner..

Ten times yes. I'm a sucker for happy endings but in Athos' case this is exactly how I feel.

And I know that Anne and Constance (especially the former) have both been accused of being too nice or perfect back in S1, but Sylvie was probably the biggest female Mary-Sue I have ever seen on TV. The writing for her was worth of a teenager's fanfiction but the actress gave me nothing either and it didn't help that Tom Burke had more chemistry with the bucket in 1x01 than with her. Imho of course.

The writers stopped at nothing in order to earn sympathy for Sylvie (flogging, seriously?) but I found myself FFing the Perils of Sylvie because the ropes were so big that I didn't manage to get involved or care about the character.

4 hours ago, writersblock51 said:

In the end, I think Milady suffered the most.  She was on a redemption arc at the end of S2, which I'm not sure I bought but I wanted to see what happened to her next.  She's a complex character and I think she was ultimately wasted on S3.  She seemed to be brought in to push Athos closer to Sylvie at the risk of her own characterization.  And I felt disappointment about that.   It just seemed too neat of an ending between her and Athos, and they were anything but 'neat' and tidy.

I know the actress' pregnancy was the biggest factor in how much she was in S3. 

The previous 2 seasons had focused on D'Artagnan/Constance, Aramis/Anne and Athos/Milady. Porthos really didn't have much going on romantically though his relationship with Aramis was always one of my favorites throughout the series.  Season 3 seemed focused solely on Athos/Sylvie with little bits and pieces of Aramis/Anne, D'Artagnan/Constance and then Porthos/Elodie.  Not quite as balanced as the other seasons, I suppose.

Hey, writersblock51, nice to see you :) (still missing you in the Arrow forums!). The balance was definitely a problem for me. There wasn't quite enough of D'Artagnan and Constance as a couple, although they had nice moments, and I'm a rabid Anne/Aramis fan so moaaar of them is kind of my motto.

I wasn't a Milady/Athos shipper in the sense that I didn't think they could have a non-toxic relationship or a happy ending (their chemistry is off the charts though) but if I had been I would be livid. As a fan of the character of Milady, whose complexity I love whereas I'm initially not a fan of the "vixen" type, I wasn't happy indeed that she was used to prop Athos/Sylvie, which automatically made it go from "meh" to "dislike" in my book. She was on a redemptive path and suddenly she was all evulz again. She deserved better. Nevertheless, I loved Anne and Milady's scene at the end and I didn't dislike Milady's ending. I don't think she could ever escape her past and working for the Queen is kind of the best thing she could hope for imo. Can I have a spin-off where the Musketeers' wives kick ass?

I love that d'Artagnan was the captain in the end (although I'm this close to thinking that Constance would have made an even better one) but imo Athos should have kept his place or gone to war. I couldn't agree more about not knowing where the "life in the country" aspirations came from. I saw him as replacing Treville not as First Minister but as a military man entirely devoted to his mission/the garrison. Plus, he would have crossed paths with Milady again and things wouldn't have been neat and tidy since no, I don't think they'd ever be...ah, well.

OTOH Treville/Constance working together is one of the things I loved about S3, as well as the young musketeers and how D'Art and Constance related to them. And I also loved indeed that Constance had her own story going on.

Porthos' storyline did feel rushed, but somehow I was rooting for him to find a family more than for any other character so I was glad he had his happy ending. I liked Elodie and Daddy Porthos was the sweetest thing. I can fanwank that with his past, he aspired to a peaceful life and yet was afraid he'd never be able to have one...but I must say that seeing him going to war and ready to kick ass on the battefield was more fitting the character imo.

I might be completely wrong, but I think that Louis' threat might have had more resonance if there had been a fourth season. I could see a more developped Fronde storyline with Anne isolated at court and struggling to rule and it would have taken more time for Aramis to become First Minister. I never liked Louis, although Ryan Gage did a great great work with him and gave him layers, so I was ready for him to die earlier in the season and get this Fronde scenario. That said, I loved everything Aramis/Anne this season, and I also loved the evolution of each character. Anne paid for her indiscretion, so did Aramis and I thought they were wiser and less selfish (Aramis was with Marguerite) for it imo. Not always, of course. They were written as a couple to root for, imo, but it was more complex, they weren't portrayed as perfect and still made mistakes. And the Aramis/Louis confrontation was fantastic, easily the most memorable scene of the season for me.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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9 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I wasn't a Milady/Athos shipper in the sense that I didn't think they could have a non-toxic relationship or a happy ending (their chemistry is off the charts though) but if I had been I would be livid. As a fan of the character of Milady, whose complexity I love whereas I'm initially not a fan of the "vixen" type, I wasn't happy indeed that she was used to prop Athos/Sylvie, which automatically made it go from "meh" to "dislike" in my book. She was on a redemptive path and suddenly she was all evulz again. She deserved better. Nevertheless, I loved Anne and Milady's scene at the end and I didn't dislike Milady's ending. I don't think she could ever escape her past and working for the Queen is kind of the best thing she could hope for imo. Can I have a spin-off where the Musketeers' wives kick ass?

The showrunners have been trotting out Mamie McCoy's pregnancy as an excuse for her storyline, but TBH I don't see any way in which that adds up; even if they'd had the limited time for her that her airtime suggests, there are multiple story paths and scenarios that would've leveraged that to an ending that made more sense after where Season 2 left her. It felt as if what time she had was explicitly being used to paint her as unequivocally villainous, thereby freeing up and whitewashing Athos' character. (I might be a little bitter about this; Milady is and always has been my favourite character in the source material and adaptations, and I especially enjoyed her on this show. And I do ship it (especially in this adaptation), but while it makes me angry as a shipper it makes me even more angry as a fan of Milady.)

(I wanted to like Milady's ending, but I have so many problems with it because of how it was presented, as opposed to the strictly factual situation -- she's still being used as a narrative tool to warn Anne, as well as shown as ending up there because she's lost all chance at the spouse-and-kids scenario we're being sold as the defined Happy Ending. If the choice was one born of her agency it would change things, but it's not -- her agency is stripped away pretty much wholesale this season -- and that wrecks it for me.)

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I could quote all of your Milady comments @Happy Harpy and @charis - I agree.  In the end, I think Milady became what she felt Athos perceived her to be.  Her choices off screen (murdering the brother of the man she'd been with - had she married him? - showed us and Treville that she was back to her 'old ways').  Was she back to that killing way of life because she felt that Athos had rejected a future with her?  If he had gotten to her carriage in time at the end of S2, what would she and they have done?   Was she following the destiny she felt she had no control over?  We don't know really because we didn't get to see or hear much so we are left to speculate.

In my opinion, her agency was formed early on by Athos' opinion of her - whoever she felt she was prior to Thomas' death, she was forever living up to the image Athos had.  Only we know that he went to be with her.  In the 4 plus years before they see each other again, he's been a soldier on the front (his perceived destiny) and she's been scheming and killing (her perceived destiny).  The scene where she finds the glove and then talks to him about it - it was there that she was at a crossroads, again.  But once again, her destiny remained based on his opinion of her - so that either confirms what she thinks about herself or she is resigned to that life.  I can't tell which.

In my head canon (because this is what I do, apparently), Milady becomes the Queen and young king's personal guardian - serving them both in whatever fashion is needed.  Not all of her duties would necessarily be nefarious and deadly either.  I never got the sense that "married with children" was what she wanted but then again, it was never discussed from what I remember.  Needed, valued and trusted - that is what I think she wanted and deserved.  She never got any of that from Athos, but I think it's easy to envision that she did from Anne and then young Louis.

 

And amen to:

- Treville and Constance working closely all season (and, safe to assume, the 4 years that passed between seasons) - it's a relationship that worked effortlessly and the actors did a good job together

- Porthos getting a family.  While it felt rushed, I liked that he had them in his life - the conversation between him and D'Artagnan in "Death of a Hero" (the Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid parts) were insightful for both characters.  It was the first time we saw that Porthos wanted a life beyond that of soldier and Royal protector. 

- Also in my head canon, D'Artagnan and Constance get the new Musketeers and garrison in top shape together.  They sold me early on as a team that worked well together on many levels.  Constance is probably my favorite character of the series, haha

- Aramis and Anne... I still can't figure out how they can be all that happy (can't have more kids, right?) - there seems that there would always be much restraint and carefulness that tests them both.  But I'm glad that he's First Minister

- Athos... perhaps he and Sylvie return to Paris at some point... I can't see either of them leaving the refugees and poor for too long.  Athos would be better as Minister of War than First Minister

- Louis - Ryan Gage did a terrific job but I wanted to smack Louis throughout.  I also think he hit the emotional beats very well, far better than I was expecting.  I'd only seen him in the Hobbit and wasn't sure what to expect in this

Also, @Happy Harpy - this show has been one of my Arrow Hiatus fillers.  I'll be back on the Arrow forum sometime soon, I expect.  S4 wore me down...

Edited by writersblock51 · Reason: Hit Submit too soon
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40 minutes ago, writersblock51 said:

I never got the sense that "married with children" was what she wanted but then again, it was never discussed from what I remember

Oh, I agree completely -- the problem is what the show tells us (tacitly) is a Proper Happy Ending, based on how the Musketeers (and their respective endgame ladies) finish out the show. (Which is just one more part of a long rant about the show's handling of female characters throughout all of the seasons that I probably shouldn't get into here.)

And you're right, we weren't told much; what we were told, and what we're given, to me reads as if they're telling us that "LOL no she's evil and she was always evil and she went right back to being evil so clearly she was unworthy". Someone on Tumblr described it as a vicious loop of "does she kill because she's unhappy or is she unhappy because she kills", and while S2 pointed to the latter with her desire to change, I find the handwavy reversal in S3 forced at best (and a total waste of a character and kind of illogical besides, but that's another soapbox).

40 minutes ago, writersblock51 said:

In the end, I think Milady became what she felt Athos perceived her to be. 

That is the problem I have in a nutshell, especially when his actions towards her are (and always have been) without consequence.

... wait, I said I wasn't going to go climbing on soapboxes, didn't I?

Anyway. I'm in the minority on here in that I have a lot of can't regarding S3; I like some of the high-level ideas but I find the execution to fall flat both broadly and specifically (with a few exceptions) and to include some very serious problems. I'm glad people liked it, and I'm glad there can be civil discussion about its merits and flaws, but I'm definitely not in that happy group. (I'll just stay in my own little world where there are only two seasons instead. XD )

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I don't know if it is the pregnancy or not, but I felt that Athos/Milady took up way too much time in both Series 1 and 2 and no one complained, but now that it is Sylvie there is a problem. Evoke sympathy...like when the sister in law tried to hang Milady...hmmm.  I think overall Sylvie was portrayed as a strong character that stayed true to her beliefs and was not afraid to fight for what she wanted.  Chemistry is sometimes only as good as the material that is written. 

Porthos' attention came in the manner of exploring his birth and his family, so although this season was not heavily Porthos, I don't think he was short changed because he got time in Series one an two. Constance and D'Artanguan took up WAY too much of Series one and two (and they really lack chemistry) so they already had plenty of focus, as did Anne and Aramis.  Far as I am concerned there were too many Grimaud  scenes and Louis scenes if anything. 

The only explanation I can come up with (other than the fact that there were new showrunners) is that Porthos, D'Artagnan and Aramis have always been pretty solid in who they were and what their conflicts were. What was Porthos going to change into? He was always a fiercely loyal warrior.  D'Artagnan was already farm boy turned hero, and we'd already had two seasons of Constance being in peril and having to be rescued in the last two episodes of Series 1 an 2,as well as them having to rescue Anne, Aramis' love interest.  Aramis was solidly the spiritual man conflicted by his carnal desires.  Why not have Athos change? We had two seasons of him being conflicted, drinking and brooding.  I thought it was evident that he was weary of the fighting and not really enjoying leadership.  I am not sure they were hinting  so much that he wanted a "quiet life in the country," or  more that he had just come really close to losing a family he had just found and wanted to protect them for a little while away from Paris ( where Sylvie also had distracting obligations) that could pose dangers. He had also come close to death himself and had his confidence shaken by Grimaud.  I think they did a great job with showing the conflict between what both of them believed in and finding common ground, and deciding what they wanted from the relationship.  I could have taken Sylvie or left her, but since that was the direction they went in, I can't say it was just terrible. If it makes everyone feel better, I don't think he was ever shown as telling her he loved her.   Her flogging scene was no more dramatic then Constance being rescued from being beheaded in series 2 or being rescued from Milady and crew in season 1. 

I never understood the fans wanting Athos to end up with Milady.  She slept with one of his best friends and tried to have that friend kill him, not to mention her other kills, including trying to knock Athos out and burn him up in his own house.  She watched a man shoot Treville, someone that Athos cared deeply for.  I could not imagine all of that being forgiven and them riding off into the sunset. I had forgotten about how much she wanted to kill him until I re watched Series 1.  I did, however, think they needed a different goodbye scene than what was shown. The idea that they would "never be free of each other until one of them was dead," had to be proven wrong, and I think the writers did a good job of showing that he had moved on.  Besides, it was supposed to be 4 or 5 years later, and according to Treville she had not stayed on the "straight and narrow," so what did he owe her?  As an Athos fan, even if you don't like Sylvie  I would hope one would want more for him than a toxic relationship with someone that could not be trusted.  I agree with a previous poster, chemistry or not, I don't see her moving on from her past, and I don't see his friends respecting him in a relationship with her.  Constance, knowing she had slept with her husband and held a knife to her throat...uh no. 

I personally like action and adventure and fight scenes, so as a whole I would have been more than happy with no one having a real love interest in the whole 3 series and devoting more time to the brotherhood and fight scenes.  I don't, however, blame the writers for wanting to end everyone on a happy note.  Seal fell in love with Heidi while she was pregnant  by someone else pretty quickly, so I could buy Porthos and Elode bonding and his raising her child. It was a different time, people did not live long lives so I think relationships, etc. did move along pretty quickly. 

I do, however, have an issue with Anne making promises to Louis and then doing one of the main things she knew would bother him with Aramis' ultimate role at the end.   Although I understand the dramatic affect and how it ultimately impacted other decisions, I wanted Treville to survive.  I think they did a good job with making Louis more mature, however death will make people look at things differently.   Rupert Everett annoyed as Feron, although he did have some great lines! 

I wish they had not made the decision to end it after season 3 and would have liked to see what would have happened with Milady if there had been a series 4 that she could contribute to. I would have also like to see Anne develop more and focus a little on the cadets at the garrison. 

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4 hours ago, charis said:

(I wanted to like Milady's ending, but I have so many problems with it because of how it was presented, as opposed to the strictly factual situation -- she's still being used as a narrative tool to warn Anne, as well as shown as ending up there because she's lost all chance at the spouse-and-kids scenario we're being sold as the defined Happy Ending. If the choice was one born of her agency it would change things, but it's not -- her agency is stripped away pretty much wholesale this season -- and that wrecks it for me.)

Just in case, I was never one to think that shipping a couple invalidated any opinion about the characters or the writing. I don't see why it should disqualify an opinion more than any other like or dislike. And you're more than entitled to dislike the season because it treated your favorite badly (it just happened to me again on another show and "badly" doesn't even start to describe it, so I feel your pain).

I actually saw the last scene differently. For me it was about Milady and Anne, two women who were pitted against each other because of a man, and who were starting a new relationship as allies and both empowered in their new role. Anne embraced the function of Regent. She couldn't be the compassionate Queen believing in redemption for criminals like the was in 1x02, she needed to secure her son's safety and throne and the "raison d'Etat" had to prime. I saw Milady's warning as the cement of this new relationship between them. Milady thinks she's alone, she says to Anne that she's alone whereas actually, they're now in this together. I can't imagine that Anne would treat Milady as Richelieu treated her. Trials hardened Anne but her last speech shows imo that she didn't lose her soul.

As for Milady, she was dealt a bad hand and I never believed that she'd have a picket fences ending. She did some unforgivable things on her own will, too (as a woman, Ninon comes to mind...BTW why didn't just get her back if they wanted a LI for Athos? They had an interesting tug-of-war relationship). I know that the show was selling the married-with-children as a happy ending...but I refuse to see it this way. And Athos' ending wasn't happy for me, it was a sentence to get bored to death. Mainly, I felt that working for Anne freed Milady of Athos in a way, because imo her motivation when she offered her services to the Crown were in no way related to him but about getting herself a position thanks to her own skills.

1 hour ago, writersblock51 said:

In my head canon (because this is what I do, apparently), Milady becomes the Queen and young king's personal guardian - serving them both in whatever fashion is needed.  Not all of her duties would necessarily be nefarious and deadly either.  I never got the sense that "married with children" was what she wanted but then again, it was never discussed from what I remember.  Needed, valued and trusted - that is what I think she wanted and deserved.  She never got any of that from Athos, but I think it's easy to envision that she did from Anne and then young Louis.

Also, @Happy Harpy - this show has been one of my Arrow Hiatus fillers.  I'll be back on the Arrow forum sometime soon, I expect.  S4 wore me down...

 

That's exactly what I liked in Milady's ending. I think that Anne will learn to trust and value her. Plus, she was the one to free Aramis out of prison and I think he'd be prone to value her and trust her because of it, too.

Arrow S4 wore me down, too, and I'm not as active as I once was...but now that dead weight is gone, I'll give S5 a try ;)

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The windows in that last location were very modern.    They gave Treville a good ending though.   I guess they're saving the bad guys for the finale.  After hitting Constance, I have no further hope of Marchaux leaving the dark side behind.   The Cross of Lorraine on the Duke's chest was really large.   I was surprised that Louis died in the beginning of the episode.  

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The costumes, locations, and scenery this season were not as good as in previous ones, but I thought everything else was very well done.   I liked CGI Notre Dame.   Marchaux's end was more gruesome than satisfying.  Was Grimaud supposed to be Dracula?  Give Me A Break!   His end was more satisfying, if he's really dead this time.   The best was Gaston's death.  I had to watch  Lady DeWinter throw that dagger four times.   And they all lived happily ever after.    Aramis must be the cardinal. 

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On 6/15/2016 at 6:36 PM, writersblock51 said:

since when did Athos want a life in the country?

 

On 6/15/2016 at 10:38 PM, Happy Harpy said:

I couldn't agree more about not knowing where the "life in the country" aspirations came from.

I assumed it from his idyllic memories of early married life (shown in one of the previous seasons). He was on his estate in the country with the woman he loved and had few if any cares. I thought he was maybe trying to recapture that with someone new.

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6 hours ago, justmehere said:

I assumed it from his idyllic memories of early married life (shown in one of the previous seasons). He was on his estate in the country with the woman he loved and had few if any cares. I thought he was maybe trying to recapture that with someone new.

It could be, but I was under the impression that it was more about regretting a marriage he believed was ideal/the time when he still believed in love than about regretting his life in the countryside per se. Unless I'm mistaking, in S2 he abandoned his estate and had seemingly no intention of looking back. So beyond the blah pairing I was surprised by such a radical choice for the character.

I would have loved it if Aramis was First Minister and Athos minister of War...such an interesting dynamic to imagine. Soldier vs politician, a bit like in the books but as always with a more optimistic outcome.

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8 hours ago, justmehere said:

I assumed it from his idyllic memories of early married life (shown in one of the previous seasons). He was on his estate in the country with the woman he loved and had few if any cares. I thought he was maybe trying to recapture that with someone new.

There's a lot about those memories that goes towards unreliable narrator and some seriously rose-tinted lenses; I suspect in reality Athos had more cares than he wants to remember, at least if he had any of the sense of duty we see in him later. If he's trying to recapture an idyll that probably never existed as he recalls it, then that seems like a mission doomed to failure, even without discussing the practical realities of the situation.

2 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

It could be, but I was under the impression that it was more about regretting a marriage he believed was ideal/the time when he still believed in love than about regretting his life in the countryside per se. Unless I'm mistaking, in S2 he abandoned his estate and had seemingly no intention of looking back. So beyond the blah pairing I was surprised by such a radical choice for the character.

Your memory is sound, Happy Harpy; at the end of The Return, Athos basically goes hands-off and effectively renounces his title and gives the lands to the people of Pinon. (I qualify with 'effectively' because I don't think he actually could do anything like that historically and my recollection of how the show handled it is fuzzy, but it's basically that when distilled down.) And if you take it as him giving up the title and the claim to the lands and never going back to Pinon, it begs the question of what he actually has left to his name ... (You said in an earlier post that it seems like a sentence to being bored to death for him -- and in the long term I agree; he might want that now, and it might help him in the immediate, but I can't see him being happy with that kind of quiet life years (or even months) down the road and I'm not sure he ever would have been, even before the Musketeers.)

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I don't have much to add, most of what went through my head during season 3 has already been addressed. Overall, I am surprised how little attention the show has received from the BBC. It's gorgeous, the chemistry between the main cast is off the charts and apart from a few mishaps and plotholes, it was fairly well written. To compare with Merlin, the characters were a lot better fleshed out and were allowed to develop and it at least tried to address the position women were in.

During Louis' death scene, I kept thinking that Anne also grieved that Louis was the only person who would know what it's like to be king/queen and negotiate through such a life. They shared at least that.

Luke P. impressed me finally. He seemed to grow up as an actor along with the character and he seemed better matched with Constance.

In my head, Athos will be back in a few weeks.

I wish Porthos' story had not been so short. Although it is a fitting end, it could have used more time.

I assume Aramis and Anne now can canoodle all they want since her role is regent, not queen who is responsible for giving birth to a new king. So, even if she were to get pregnant again, it wouldn't be a problem. Rumors and gossip, yes, but no treason. Although it might be good to keep it private since people might still remember the earlier rumors.

I would like to see Anne and Mylady working together.

Overall, season 3 felt very well plotted and I didn't mind the somewhat overly sweet ending with all the couples.

I really can't quite believe this show didn't deserve a longer run from the BBC.

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45 minutes ago, supposebly said:

I assume Aramis and Anne now can canoodle all they want since her role is regent, not queen who is responsible for giving birth to a new king. So, even if she were to get pregnant again, it wouldn't be a problem. Rumors and gossip, yes, but no treason. Although it might be good to keep it private since people might still remember the earlier rumors.

If she were pregnant soon enough the child would be considered as Louis'...see the Mary Tudor/Louis XII aftermath (I warned that I was a rabid shipper, LOL).

Considering that historically, Louis XIV's marriage to Madame de Maintenon was kept secret for centuries, in my headcanon keeping it private works for Anne and Aramis.

Love the idea of Athos being back after a few weeks. TBH, I don't think that Aramis would be able to step away from battle definitely either. He'd be moonlighting as a musketeer every once in a while.

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On 2016-06-15 at 10:38 PM, Happy Harpy said:

I couldn't agree more about not knowing where the "life in the country" aspirations came from.

I didn't see any aspirations for "life in the country" coming from either Athos nor Sylvie in the ending. When he passed being Captain of the Musketeers on to d'Artagnan, Sylvie explains they would be away "for a while" to tend to something of great importance. I didn't see that as "life in the country".  The scene where they look back at Paris, Sylvie says "we saved Paris. What next?" Athos' lovely ending voice-over basically said they would (all) approach the future the way they always had. With passion.

On 2016-06-16 at 11:28 AM, catrice2 said:

Why not have Athos change? We had two seasons of him being conflicted, drinking and brooding.  I thought it was evident that he was weary of the fighting and not really enjoying leadership.  I am not sure they were hinting  so much that he wanted a "quiet life in the country," or  more that he had just come really close to losing a family he had just found and wanted to protect them for a little while away from Paris ( where Sylvie also had distracting obligations) that could pose dangers.

I saw Athos' change as letting go of his cynicism and allowing something more positive to take it's place. Accepting that he could have love in his life. I agree with the bit in bold. I think their 1st mission was to ensure a safe(r) birth for his child and the woman who showed him he could love - and be loved. They both are crusaders (not in the christian sense) for the downtrodden. I assumed they would find another place to do that. Paris is not all of France.

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I agree.  I did not read the ending at all that they were retiring to a quiet life in the country.  Maybe I missed something. I will have to re watch.  Yeah, I felt like some things were rushed, but there was a lot to cover in only 10 episodes. I actually wish they had killed Louis sooner. 

I guess they can't make everyone happy.  At least we all had favorite seasons and episodes.  Hope to buy this in a boxed set. 

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I am NOT liking this season one bit.    The social issue aspect week after week is boring.   Attempting to parallel the modern refugee crisis was a terrible idea.  I get enough human misery in the news, don't need it in my entertainment.    Worse, they keep trying to shoehorn whatshername, the refugee upstart, into the script every week.  Not to mention the contrived romance beween Athos and whatshername when there isn't a molecule of chemistry between them, especially in contrast to the scenes with Milady.  

Constance has been relegated to little more than walk-ons.  Ditto for the queen.   The Musketeers themselves have been reduced from four distinct and strong personalities to a homogenized, interchangeable team.  The only reason we can differentiate them is because we watched the two previous seasons.

The stories crawl by slower than Feron on a rainy day.   They're all the same: Feron and the hooded guy hatch some plot, it inevitably leads the Musketeers to the refugee section of Paris, whatshername appears, teases the romance, cut back to the palace and some shit about the Dauphin, stage a big fight in the refugee section full of horses and carts, close with Feron and hooded guy skulking off scot-free. 

Based on this season so far, this show deserved to be canceled. 

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It aired on Monday, yes - I don't know why it was moved from Saturday to Monday though! It's back to Saturday at 8.30 this week.

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4 hours ago, charis said:

From what I heard, they bumped it for some sport -- not sure which.

Of course. The Euros. Silly of me not to realise...(Sport? On my radar? Nope!)

A slightly weaker episode, I thought. I was curious to know how Louis could have been diagnosed with the 'white plague' without Treville knowing he was sick - unless he's self-diagnosed, which might be more likely since the only doctor in Paris got bumped off last season.

The look on Athos's face whenever Aramis gets distracted by either the queen or the dauphin is priceless and precious and worth all my exasperation that Aramis simply can't control himself where those two are concerned. The queen seems to have pulled herself together where he's concerned, keeping it all strictly by the book, but Aramis just can't seem to help himself, the big idiot. Which prompts the fabulous Athos eye rolls, so it's all good.

When Queen Anne as talking to Constance about babies at the garrison (the Musketeers have really never had a married man in their number before?) I couldn't help thinking...well, her husband has been away at war for four years and only got back five minutes ago, so it's not like she's had much chance even if she'd the inclination - plus she was married to Bonacieux for a good few years and remained childless, so maybe tread carefully on this subject...

I did appreciate Anne and Constance having a scene together again. For all that their friendship came out of nowhere last season, I do enjoy it - women get precious little opportunity for interaction on this show, so we must make the most of what we get!

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I am watching this on the BBC's schedule, and on top of that was out of town for a week and am only now getting to this episode, so I don't know how things are going to go this season, nor do I want to know, so take this in that spirit:

If Athos doesn't get laid before the series is out, I'm going to be a very angry puppy. He was so dopey when he spotted Sword-Swinging Gal I honestly didn't recognize him. That may be because he was cleaned up for the first time I remember (and he SMILED!), but even that could be laid at the feet of Sword-Swinging Gal--she altered his outlook and made it worthwhile to take a bath, don't ya know. Honestly, I don't like her that much, so I'm not looking for a Constance/D'Artagnon Romance for the Ages out of them, but if there's not some rumpy-pumpy before long, somebody's going to bust a gasket. I mean, everybody else (except for Treville, and we need to do something about that) has gotten a little sumpin-sumpin in the show, some of them a LOT of sumpin-sumpin. Don't you think it's Athos' turn?

Maybe it was the half-bottle of Gruner Veltliner (and Chrome won't let me put in the correct umlauts, etc., for German spelling in the midst of my English post), but I couldn't keep all the loyalties straight. On top of that, it took me a while to recognize Josephine, as she had her hair down when she stole the documents and up for the rest of the episode. But I don't care. We got to watch Treville fight, for one thing. And, let's face it, it's the fight choreography most of us are here for, isn't it?

Oh, and does anybody else remember when Rupert Everett was dismissed as a "pretty" boy? He's anything BUT pretty in this show! I keep searching his face for his old good looks, and failing to find them.

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On 6/1/2016 at 5:20 PM, justmehere said:

Well, I thought that was an excellent episode. Maybe one of the best of the whole series.

I'll second that.   Finally a good episode this season.   I was ready to give up altogether.  But this one had some good plot resolutions and plenty of suspense.   You knew somebody was going to die, but who?

I like the grim Athos.

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Hmm. I wasn't as happy with this episode as others seem to be. I thought it was patchy. I like that Athos is pursuing something with Sylvie, after being mired in angst over Milady for so many years, but Sylvie's own story (passionate rebel leader) doesn't feel entirely organic, especially when compared with Constance, whose life was interwoven with that of the Musketeers rather more seamlessly from the start. It was good to get some backstory on Aramis - raised in a brothel? It's sad but explains so much - but the sad story of his childhood chum Pauline felt clunky and incomplete. Such a happy reunion, promises of help and support, but nothing was resolved - will her toff fiance marry her despite her murder of the stable boy, and if so should we be glad, when they were clearly mismatched with nothing but misery ahead? Will she be turned in and convicted of murder? Will she be tossed back into the gutter? Will Aramis turn his back and walk away after witnessing her breakdown or follow through on his promise to help? I can't imagine we will see her again, which will paint Aramis in a poor light, which I can't imagine was the intention, so what was the point?

Rather surprisingly, Louis managed to make sensible decisions throughout this episode. His sister was awful. Nice to see Sarah Smart pop up as Bonnaire's wife the lady-in-waiting - I remember her on children's TV when she (and me, for that matter) was about 12.

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On 6/16/2016 at 2:28 PM, catrice2 said:

I never understood the fans wanting Athos to end up with Milady.  

Agreed.  I liked Milady as a character, but her relationship with Athos was quite self-destructive. 

Still, I thought the Sylvie/Athos romance was poorly conceived and executed on top of the actors having ZERO chemistry. Not sure if it's because Santiago Cabrera manages to have chemistry with everyone, possibly even inanimate objects, but there was more there between Aramis and Sylvie in one kiss than anything involving Athos.  Sylvie as a character was poorly written, but that's par for the course with the women on this show.  Nevertheless, I vastly preferred her to Anne and Constance. Anne's brief interaction with Milady made her much more interesting - shame that we couldn't have seen more.     

In any case, I enjoyed the show for what it was, which for me was seeing hot, swarthesque men swashbuckling. Luke Pasqualino definitely came into his own in the final season, hubba hubba! I hope to see him, Howard Charles, and Cabrera in the future.  I was unfamiliar with Pasqualino and Charles before this show, and I appreciate the introduction.  

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I also think Pasqualino was great in this series.  I also can't wait to see what they do next,however, being in the U.S. I probably won't see it until months after it has already been shown in the UK! 

Oddly, although he and Milady had a lot of scenes/time in the first two series, Athos was the character I was the least interested in. I don't think it has anything to do with the actor because I actually thought Tom Burke was the best actor of the four, but I just did not find him interesting. For me it was not a lack of chemistry, but a lack of time to develop the relationship and show (in words) why they were interested in each other.  Besides, it is hard to have peasant woman look great in the type of clothes they were supposed to wear, and yes, I think it makes a difference that Anne and Milady were shown in great gowns with their hair styled, etc.  Then again, I think they were trying to show that Athos was interested in more than just the physical with Sylvie. 

I would have loved to see D in a story without Constance.  I think they missed the opportunity in the first season to have her killed in line with the books...and the second season with the beheading. the romance between them was really boring, and in my opinion they had less chemistry than anyone.  Again, I would have gladly not had any romance and more action scenes, because the swashbuckling is what I was there for! 

I can't complain...I got to see Capaldi and Marc Warren and as you say, be introduced to more actors to follow.  I actually think Cabrera is signed to do a show onShowtime, HBO, Cinemax or one of those type of channels.  Not sure about the others.  Burke strikes me as the type to do plays. 

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Saw parts of this episode again and I still enjoyed most of it.  The scene of the boys with Bonnaire trying to get the horse was funny.  I liked that D'Artagnan's farm background came back to help in that spot.  Also liked the bit of Constance when she saw the gems, had a sweet moment with her husband then punched Bonnaire in the gut.

On 6/27/2016 at 4:57 AM, Llywela said:

... It was good to get some backstory on Aramis - raised in a brothel? It's sad but explains so much - but the sad story of his childhood chum Pauline felt clunky and incomplete. Such a happy reunion, promises of help and support, but nothing was resolved - will her toff fiance marry her despite her murder of the stable boy, and if so should we be glad, when they were clearly mismatched with nothing but misery ahead? Will she be turned in and convicted of murder? Will she be tossed back into the gutter? Will Aramis turn his back and walk away after witnessing her breakdown or follow through on his promise to help? I can't imagine we will see her again, which will paint Aramis in a poor light, which I can't imagine was the intention, so what was the point?

...

You bring up good points here - as much as I enjoyed seeing Aramis and learned more about his (sad but explains a lot) background, the Pauline, her fiance and the stable boy stuff was ... not well constructed. 

The only good part of that whole thing for me, upon re-watch, was the brief but enlightening exchange between Aramis, Athos and then Porthos - Aramis is 'penance' to both.  I find that to be amusing and accurate.

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I find James Callis' "Batman" voice to be unnecessary and distracting in this role.   He'd come off as far more slippery and conniving if he used his normal voice.   An odd choice.  Perhaps it was an attempt to distance himself from Baltar.

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I'm kind of looking at this thread through my fingers and squinted eyelids so as to avoid spoilers--I'm watching this on BBC time--but I've got a couple of questions left over from last season, and thought this would be the best place to ask:

I'm trying to remember: Did Porthos actually wind up with an estate and big house? There was so much back-and-forth about whose son he really was, and who was really who they said they were, and viewer commentary on top of that, that I'm all confused.

The same applies to whether Athos actually gave up title to--and income from--his lands. They made reference to it this season, but only in passing, and only in the form of a single sentence, trying to make him look especially good to Swordfighting Girl. I remember a lot of discussion as to whether he actually, technically, legally, could surrender it all, including his own noble title, but I don't remember what the upshot was.

Thank you. I'll open my eyes again when I'm notified of an answer.

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6 hours ago, millennium said:

I find James Callis' "Batman" voice to be unnecessary and distracting in this role.   He'd come off as far more slippery and conniving if he used his normal voice.   An odd choice.  Perhaps it was an attempt to distance himself from Baltar.

My take on his role (both appearances in the series) was more of a Captain Jack Sparrow thing than anything else.  Why he goes so gravel-y is beyond me.  It does contrast nightly when he screams, though. Haha

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