S02.E08: Perfect

[secnarf]

Quote

The gang comes together for a memorable prom with a fitting theme, Summer of Love; however, with someone important missing, it feels incomplete.

Aug 3 2023

[Bill1978]

The Heartstopper fandom can have their Nick/Charlie obsession, I'm definitely more interested in the development of (spoiler tags for non-book readers)

Spoiler

Mr Ajayi and Mr Farouk's relationship

this season, although I feel like I'll be sitting at a table of one with that opinion.

[starri]

58 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

this season, although I feel like I'll be sitting at a table of one with that opinion.

You're not.

[Bill1978]

Season 2 was good but for me it was a step below the first season. Not sure why exactly but I found myself pausing a number of episodes which didn't happen with the first season. I found myself rolling my eyes a lot with actions and statements made by the characters. I didn't hate the season, because I still finished the season in 3 days, (Only because it dropped on a Thursday instead of a Friday and work prevented a late-night binge) but it definitely wasn't as engaging as the first season.

Personally, I found the little side plot involving Mr. Ajayi and Mr. Farouk my favourite story for the season and I hope we get to continue to follow their relationship in Season 3.

And if there is anyone from the UK here, can you explain the difference between Form and Year in regard to education? Because Charlie and Nick kept saying they were in the same form but only Nick was sitting his GSCE (blows my mind they have 2 weeks of study time during school time, here in Australia we are like fend for yourself kids) which implies different grade level doesn't it?

[willgracefan]

I really did like this season. But I felt the last few episodes were a let down. Kudos for Nick finally coming out publicly but it felt anticlimactic with a simple IG post. I did love all the family scenes, with Nick’s brother and Dad. And obviously Olivia Colman is a queen. 
i wish they went more into Charlie’s apparent eating disorder. And the cutting kinda came out of nowhere. I wanted a much longer convo about all of this between Nick and Charlie. 
I’m ace so I was SO here for Issac figuring out his feelings have a word. 
more for next season please! 

[lovett1979]

On 8/5/2023 at 3:10 AM, Bill1978 said:

And if there is anyone from the UK here, can you explain the difference between Form and Year in regard to education? Because Charlie and Nick kept saying they were in the same form but only Nick was sitting his GSCE (blows my mind they have 2 weeks of study time during school time, here in Australia we are like fend for yourself kids) which implies different grade level doesn't it?

American here but I think I can answer. Year is the year of schooling you are in. Joe (and Tao, Isaac, Tara, and Darcy) is in Year 10 and Nick (and Elle, Ben, Imogen, and Harry) is in Year 11. Form is similar to what we call Homeroom or Advisory. Someone commented on the S1.E1 thread that "Form room was where we would start the day, and later in the day, too. Our form teacher was our main teacher, who would also show up in another class. One of mine was our history teacher." In the very first scene of the series, the Stephen Fry headmaster says "Don't forget there'll now be students for all school years in your new form groups." and Charlie has his new form room number written on his hand. So Truham clearly just switched from having year-based forms to all-year forms. I don't know how common either system actually is, but this new grouping was what allowed Charlie and Nick to meet so...

[PurpleTentacle]

This was a very cute season, just like the last one. But man are they doing some baby steps. In season one it felt more natural since Nick was still figuring out his sexuality, but here it's like "get on with it already" at times.

I think this is an entirely british production, so the writers strike shouldn't effect when next season comes out, right?

On 8/4/2023 at 2:47 PM, Bill1978 said:

Spoiler

Mr Ajayi and Mr Farouk's relationship

this season, although I feel like I'll be sitting at a table of one with that opinion.

Nah, I agree and even Trixie and Katya do:

I do agree with these two that it's highly unrealistic that Charlie and Nick aren't banging. You can tell this was written by an asexual woman and not by a homosexual teen boy. I think it could still be very wholesome, even if we would bring that bit of realism into it.

[lovett1979]

(continuing my thoughts from S2E5 thread)

Tao is fiercely devoted to his friends, which is a wonderful thing. But there were times in season 1 that seemed a little overboard (at least to me). His fear that anything (or anyone) new might take his friends away from him caused a kind of hysteria. His worries about Nick were that he would either be cruel to Charlie, or take him away from Tao. The fact that Charlie was cancelling plans with Tao and the gang only fueled this fear. And when Elle befriends Naomi and Felix at the beginning of these season, Tao is more worried about her getting new friends than he is happy that she's found other trans teens to be friends with.

In this final episode, Tao talks about losing his father at a young age. He identifies that that loss has caused him to value and cling to his friends even more closely and this helps explain his actions. I love that we are getting all of these explanations. And it is all part of a larger theme of this season of our past experiences (especially negative ones) informing our present feelings and actions. 

[xander874]

I loved the Tao/Elle arc this season. I love Charlie/Nick but their story seemed a bit of the same each episode with Nick fretting about coming out and Charlie reassuring him. So I am glad he is out now and we can move on. Hope we delve into the eating disorder a bit more.

I felt this season was somewhat filler and more a bridge to next season because so many good stories were set up: Darcy and her mom, Elle's art school adventures, the teachers' relationship, and Isaac's figuring himself out.

Also, as a 'Murican, do proms always happen at the end of summer/start of school in the UK? Here they tend to be in the spring/end of school. When they were first talking about it, I thought "they are really planning ahead!".

[lovett1979]

1 hour ago, xander874 said:

Also, as a 'Murican, do proms always happen at the end of summer/start of school in the UK? Here they tend to be in the spring/end of school. When they were first talking about it, I thought "they are really planning ahead!".

American here too, but I think that prom DID happen at the end of their school year. Google says that GCSEs are in May and British school year runs from early September to mid or late July. So I guess the Paris trip people got to miss a week of school in, like, June or something, and then when they came back it was basically the end of the year and they had their prom. There's also a conversation between Nick and Charlie that mentions the Summer holidays coming after the Paris trip.

[xander874]

1 hour ago, lovett1979 said:

American here too, but I think that prom DID happen at the end of their school year. Google says that GCSEs are in May and British school year runs from early September to mid or late July. So I guess the Paris trip people got to miss a week of school in, like, June or something, and then when they came back it was basically the end of the year and they had their prom. There's also a conversation between Nick and Charlie that mentions the Summer holidays coming after the Paris trip.

Thanks I missed that part but makes sense. I just assumed the Paris trip was into the summer since they finished their exams.

[ctmd]

Did anyone else have the feeling something ominous was about to happen in this season finale? Charlie outside in the dark, finger hovering over "send" for his "i love you text." They've said it to each other already, right? No reason to hover. I kept thinking he was about to get hit by a car or something. driven by Ben. 

[lovett1979]

18 minutes ago, ctmd said:

Did anyone else have the feeling something ominous was about to happen in this season finale? Charlie outside in the dark, finger hovering over "send" for his "i love you text." They've said it to each other already, right? No reason to hover. I kept thinking he was about to get hit by a car or something. driven by Ben. 

Honestly, I had that feeling during the last scene of the first episode. Charlie was telling Tory how he was going to keep Nick safe and he wouldn't have to deal with the negative things Charlie had, while we saw Nick beaming as he walked away from Charlie's house. But nothing bad happened then. I just don't think it's that kind of show. Most of the conflict comes from internal feelings and past traumas.

But no, they haven't said "I love you" yet. In Season 1 finale, Nick said "I love liking you" and in the bedroom in this episode, it's pretty clear that Nick is about to say it when his mom comes home and breaks the moment. I think that's why Charlie felt the urge to text it to him at that moment. But this is not the kind of show that uses tragedies and obstacles just for dramatic purposes so I don't think we have to worry about that.

[charliesan]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:47 AM, Bill1978 said:

this season, although I feel like I'll be sitting at a table of one with that opinion.

I think it's safe to say they're the break-out pairing of the season. 

At the end of this episode I was like "is everyone at least somewhat part of the LGBT+ spectrum in this school? Maybe Nick's blonde former friend isn't, but of course there's always next season". 

I think Tori deserves better next year, I mean, sure, she had her scenes when playing the protecting sister, but I wish she had something else besides that and sipping her drink. I don't need her paired up with someone else, just have another storyline other than "lonely girl that loves her brother".

I don't mind in the least that Isaac is asexual, but, can we drop it with the books? I get it, boy likes to read. I don't doubt that he is asexual or at least he's trying to find and/or figure himself out, but I'd ask myself why I'm so attached to physically holding a book the entire time. Sure, it's okay to not be interested in sex or finding a partner (especially if they're just turning 15, isn't that Charlie's age?), but, can you at least, you know, leave your book at home while you're going to prom? Do you mind NOT reading while we're in a group with friends? As I write this I'm realizing how annoyed I was with this. I didn't notice in the first season but he was more of a background character, but since they decided to give him more screentime it's all I could see this time around. 

I wasn't surprised Charlie's still dealing with the aftermath of the year he was bullied and I'm glad the show is addressing this, he can be extremely happy being with Nick but he can still have PTSD from his past, it won't be easy to get over it especially since he's a teenager. 

On 8/17/2023 at 11:35 AM, ctmd said:

Did anyone else have the feeling something ominous was about to happen in this season finale? Charlie outside in the dark, finger hovering over "send" for his "i love you text."

That's about the only think I could think of, but I mean, I love true crime, so my mind immediately goes to "why is he walking by himself after midnight? He's practically begging to be kidnapped", but then I remember this is a kids' show. Had it been me? I would've been running in zigzag until I came home, and THEN I would've texted the "I love you". 

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, charliesan said:

but, can you at least, you know, leave your book at home while you're going to prom?

This was the moment that I thought was overkill with Isaac's books.

[lovett1979]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:44 PM, PurpleTentacle said:

I do agree with these two that it's highly unrealistic that Charlie and Nick aren't banging. You can tell this was written by an asexual woman and not by a homosexual teen boy. I think it could still be very wholesome, even if we would bring that bit of realism into it.

Just watched this video about the sex (or lack there of) in Heartstopper and the criticism around it.

 

 

I was surprised (and a bit disappointed) about the lack of sex (or, just, anything more than kissing) this season, especially because the idea was spoken about in episodes 4 (I'm sure we'll "do it" one day) and 6 (when Nick says he isn't ready to do more than kissing and Charlie says he wants to do (or not do) what Nick wants to do (or not do)). At then end of the Prom party, after everyone leaves and they go up to Nick's room holding hands, it seemed like that was absolutely where things were going (because storytelling and character development/arcs and TV tropes about prom night, lol). They did not go there, but did become intimate in a much deeper way, with Charlie opening up about the bullying and self-harm, and Nick almost saying "I love you." This could be due to Alice being asexual, or Netflix wanting a sanitized show, or the show trying to be accessible to as many audiences (and ages) as possible. Who knows? I'm currently reading through the graphic novels and I'm looking forward to seeing if their interactions in Volume 3 are much different than in this season.

I also think there are some real-world complications to this that are perhaps warping our perception of how we think they should be acting. The characters of Nick and Charlie are 16 and 14/15, respectively, throughout these 2 seasons. Kit was 17 when S1 was filmed and 18 when S2 was filmed (and his bulk-up has made him seem even older, I think). Joe was 17 when S1 was filmed and 19 when S2 was filmed (he's actually older than Kit, even though Nick is older than Charlie). So we may be perceiving them as 18/19 year-olds when the characters are 15/16. Also, season 1 premiered in April 2022. It is now August 2023. So for us, their relationship has been going on for 16 months. But in the timeline of the story, they meet in January, first kiss in April, declare they are boyfriends/Nick comes out to his mom at the end of May, go to Paris at the end of June, and prom night is probably mid-July. So it's only been 7 months since their meeting, and 3 months since their first kiss.

[possibilities]

This review also addresses the lack of sex-- though it was recorded after the first season and before the 2nd. The reviewers vary in how they view the situation. 

They also talk about other aspects of the show.

On thing I really agree with is that the focus on the emotional bonding between characters, and the social situation OUTIDE OF coming out issues, is a strength of the show.

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/03/1191864972/heartstopper-bursts-with-young-queer-love-cartoon-hearts-and-fireworks?ft=nprml&f=510282

[JustHereForFood]

I liked this season. It's good to have a nice, comfort TV with most of the characters being on the LGBT+ spectrum.

I am glad that they didn't just drop the storyline about Charlie's eating disorder, but I wish that they went into more depth with it. On one hand, I completely get that Nick wouldn't want to betray Cherlie by telling others behind his back, on the other hand, he is totally unprepared to deal with it. I wish we had seen more of the struggle he must be going through about it. I admit, I have no idea what I would do in his place.

I love Isaac and I am glad that they are including asexual character.

I am in the minority here that I didn't care one bit about the teachers' storyline. I think it is unprofessional of them to be hooking up on events when they are supposed to keep an eye on the students.

On 8/6/2023 at 1:30 AM, willgracefan said:

I did love all the family scenes, with Nick’s brother and Dad. And obviously Olivia Colman is a queen. 
i wish they went more into Charlie’s apparent eating disorder. And the cutting kinda came out of nowhere. I wanted a much longer convo about all of this between Nick and Charlie. 
I’m ace so I was SO here for Issac figuring out his feelings have a word. 
more for next season please! 

I agree with your post and just want to say I love your nickname!

 

On 8/17/2023 at 7:35 PM, ctmd said:

Did anyone else have the feeling something ominous was about to happen in this season finale? Charlie outside in the dark, finger hovering over "send" for his "i love you text." They've said it to each other already, right? No reason to hover. I kept thinking he was about to get hit by a car or something. driven by Ben. 

I admit I was a bit worried at times. I know we were promised a mostly stress-free, cute comfort story, but after the way my other comfort TV series (Good Omens) ended in season 2, I was worried and actually decided to look up how the season would end in advance. I know I am overreacting, but there is so few TV series that I can count on to not get too dark nowadays.

[possibilities]

I am hoping they will continue to address the eating disorder in S3. I wish we didn't have to wait a long time for that, though!

[secnarf]

I haven't been able to bring myself to watch this season of Heartstopper yet, because I read the vague plot trajectory after season one and saw the part about Charlie's eating disorder. Generally speaking, I avoid any TV/movies that deal with addictions or eating disorders. When these come up in real life, they are really hard/heavy/depressing to deal with, and not at all what I want in something that I am watching for enjoyment.

So all of these comments that they aren't spending a lot of time on it might actually convince me to watch! I love the characters and had been so looking forward to the second season until I read about Charlie's eating disorder. I didn't want it to ruin the show for me, especially since season one was just so sweet.

[possibilities]

I think thy manage to make it sweet even with the hard stuff, if that's any help.

[Sesquipedalia]

I thought the coming out on Instagram and then going to prom but not really participating and leaving early was anticlimactic. I enjoyed the Paris trip in Season 2, but other than that, Season 1 was way better.

[Harvey]

It's really unrealistic they are not having sex. But what I find interesting is how did they manage to make the teacher romance storyline so much more captivating than any of the others with a tenth of the screen time devoted to it. I guess it would be nice to see this sort of sweet love story play out with adults instead of teens. 

[jacehan]

I don't think it's unrealistic at all. In general I think people tend to overestimate how much sex teens have, especially nowadays.