Law & Order: Los Angeles

[WendyCR72]

Figured since this spinoff is now streaming on Freevee (formerly IMDB TV), it deserved a space for those who may want to discuss its short run.

Have at it!

[WendyCR72]

By the way, upon re-watching some of this, it occurred to me that the Los Angeles counterpart often tried to use actors from California-based soaps just as the New York version did for New York soap actors and Broadway actors.

Too bad it did not work out half as well for the actors living on the left coast.

Maybe had the show not been run out of order, with certain key plot points messing up the narrative, this may have stood more of a chance.

Or maybe the anger at cancelling the original for this just sealed its fate from word go.

Again, if anyone wants to revisit this (or never watched and need some form of L&O to watch!), it is found on Freevee (owned by Amazon).

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe had the show not been run out of order, with certain key plot points messing up the narrative, this may have stood more of a chance.

Would you (or anyone else) recommend watching the episodes in the order of the Production Codes as shown on Wikipedia?

AFAIK, I've never watched the show.

Thanks for starting the thread!

[Raja]

40 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Would you (or anyone else) recommend watching the episodes in the order of the Production Codes as shown on Wikipedia?

AFAIK, I've never watched the show.

Thanks for starting the thread!

Well as in the classic L&O  it really isn't serialized enough to matter. So watching 22 episodes can be like dropping in randomly on the 22 seasons. On the other hand if you watch in the broadcast schedule you will go through the soft reboot and then back to the original cast

[shapeshifter]

19 minutes ago, Raja said:

 On the other hand if you watch in the broadcast schedule you will go through the soft reboot and then back to the original cast

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part?

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Not sure what you mean by the bolded part?

Alana de la Garza joined the cast as a LA County Deputy DA Connie Rubirosa as they reconfigured the big 6 of the team like we see on classic L&O. The detective team, their Lieutenant, the prosecutors and the DA. Well actually LA had a big 8  before the soft reboot as they had alternating prosecutors like Criminal Intent had alternating detective teams when Chris Noth joined that cast.

Why that happens goes into spoilers for someone who might want to go in to the series cold. And then NBC burned off the remaining episodes that were in the can before the soft reboot.

Edited June 6 by Raja
the burn off of episodes.

[shapeshifter]

So, unless there's some reason not to do so that can be explained without spoilers (or maybe just an urgent plea to watch them in airing order😉), I plan to watch the episodes in production order. 

Just for anyone's information, here are:

Episodes with Junior DDA Connie Rubirosa played by Alana De La Garza:

  

_________________________________________________

Episodes in Production Order:

 

_________________________________________________

Episodes in the order they originally aired:

 

 

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Would you (or anyone else) recommend watching the episodes in the order of the Production Codes as shown on Wikipedia?

AFAIK, I've never watched the show.

Thanks for starting the thread!

I'm just going to be vague and recommend production - NOT broadcast - order. I can't be more specific because of plot points.

[wknt3]

On 6/6/2023 at 2:38 AM, WendyCR72 said:

Maybe had the show not been run out of order, with certain key plot points messing up the narrative, this may have stood more of a chance.

Or maybe the anger at cancelling the original for this just sealed its fate from word go.

One tenet of my Grand Unified Theory of Law & Order is that the spinoffs are only successful when they actually do something different from the original. When they aren't like LA or Trial By Jury you have some very talented actors spinning their wheels for an audience that doesn't care and would rather see more of the other series. When you do something different people will tune in even if the show is a bit of an aimless mess with only a few talented actors to make it worth watching (not to name any names!).

[Raja]

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

One tenet of my Grand Unified Theory of Law & Order is that the spinoffs are only successful when they actually do something different from the original. When they aren't like LA or Trial By Jury you have some very talented actors spinning their wheels for an audience that doesn't care and would rather see more of the other series. When you do something different people will tune in even if the show is a bit of an aimless mess with only a few talented actors to make it worth watching (not to name any names!).

I always thought that in the aftermath that LA and Trial By Jury should be mashed in with the Law & Order syndicated packages. I know rights and union rules would forbid it, and narratively not as bad as leaving out the Homicide Life on the Street side of those crossovers. Maybe a couple of Trial by Jury episodes dealing  with the aftermath of a mothership case is almost as bad. But it wouldn't have hurt anyone to see Bebe Neuwirth or Allred Molina lead episodes pop up.

[shapeshifter]

While watching these episodes for the first time, questionable legal stuff (as determined solely by my L&O degree) keeps jumping out at me. 
The reboot of the Mothership has a lot of questionable stuff each episode, but most of them are just things not shown that might be okay. 
On this show, it's more like there is at least one WTH? thing each episode. 
For instance, in episode 6, "Hondo Field," in the middle of the trial:

Spoiler

the prosecution discovers damning text messages from the accused to the victim.
When these are sprung on the accused at trial, it is obvious that these exhibits were not familiar to the defense attorney, which seems to violate everything I've ever heard on any law show about sharing evidence to the defense. 

— which seems to violate everything I've ever heard on any law show about sharing evidence to the defense.

[txhorns79]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:02 AM, wknt3 said:

One tenet of my Grand Unified Theory of Law & Order is that the spinoffs are only successful when they actually do something different from the original. When they aren't like LA or Trial By Jury you have some very talented actors spinning their wheels for an audience that doesn't care and would rather see more of the other series.

Didn't Trial by Jury attempt to do something different from the original?  From what I remember, it was more about the trials themselves, showing how both sides prepped and handled the trial.  I thought its problem was that it just wasn't that interesting. 

With LOLA, I would agree it wasn't very different.  It was also extra annoying that they cancelled the original to put on a show that was very much like it. 

[Raja]

14 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Didn't Trial by Jury attempt to do something different from the original?  From what I remember, it was more about the trials themselves, showing how both sides prepped and handled the trial.  I thought its problem was that it just wasn't that interesting.

That was the stated premise but to me the Law side of Trial By Jury seemed the same as on the classic show except for they weren't there for  initial finding of the body

[Raja]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

For instance, in episode 6, "Hondo Field," in the middle of the trial:

I last pulled out my DVD set during the COVID new content desert time and  as a native Angeleno my first thought is where the hell is Hondo Field. Looking at the episode blurbs on wiki it still doesn't register so a Terrance Howard episode. Maybe it was the bottom of the run.

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, Raja said:

I last pulled out my DVD set during the COVID new content desert time and  as a native Angeleno my first thought is where the hell is Hondo Field. Looking at the episode blurbs on wiki it still doesn't register so a Terrance Howard episode. Maybe it was the bottom of the run.

I'm watching the show on FreeVee. 
Although FreeVee is now part of Amazon Prime Video, I'm pretty sure L&O LA is one of the "free" shows. 

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I last pulled out my DVD set during the COVID new content desert time and  as a native Angeleno my first thought is where the hell is Hondo Field. Looking at the episode blurbs on wiki it still doesn't register so a Terrance Howard episode. Maybe it was the bottom of the run.

I know that, in the NY version, even if it often referenced real landmarks and locations, there were also fake ones, including many of the addresses, which - according to some I have talked to - would take you directly to the Hudson River!

So, maybe "Hondo Field" was one of the fakes amongst the real.

[Raja]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know that, in the NY version, even if it often referenced real landmarks and locations, there were also fake ones, including many of the addresses, which - according to some I have talked to - would take you directly to the Hudson River!

So, maybe "Hondo Field" was one of the fakes amongst the real.

As I remember on L&OLA for episode titles they used real community names like Jack Webb/Sgt Friday called out on Dragnet.  Although on Dragnet they called out parallel streets as crossing streets. Hondo Field is just obscure. Maybe folks near the port know of the area? 

[Door County Cherry]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:40 PM, shapeshifter said:

The reboot of the Mothership has a lot of questionable stuff each episode, but most of them are just things not shown that might be okay. 
On this show, it's more like there is at least one WTH? thing each episode. 

I watched this series for the first time a month or so ago and I liked it for the most part.  But the one thing that struck me about it is how much it felt closer to the reboot of L&O than the original L&O. It's there in the music and some of the strange legal decisions.  I find it kind of funny because it debuted closer to the first 20 seasons and yet it feels like this is the way they've wanted to go with the franchise since even back then.  

 

[wknt3]

On 6/9/2023 at 5:37 PM, txhorns79 said:

Didn't Trial by Jury attempt to do something different from the original?  From what I remember, it was more about the trials themselves, showing how both sides prepped and handled the trial.  I thought its problem was that it just wasn't that interesting. 

With LOLA, I would agree it wasn't very different.  It was also extra annoying that they cancelled the original to put on a show that was very much like it. 

 

On 6/10/2023 at 8:19 AM, Raja said:

That was the stated premise but to me the Law side of Trial By Jury seemed the same as on the classic show except for they weren't there for  initial finding of the body

I am just catching up here, after being laid out with a GI bug for most of the past few days, but yes I would agree both on the theory and the results. The cases were very similar, the style was pretty much identical, and what was supposed to be the big difference basically was just a reduction in the narrative possibilities - they weren't going to get end up with a plea bargain or a confession in the DAs office or interrogation room because this was all about jury verdicts. So it didn't really pop as something new or different - at times it felt like just another episode of the original only oddly structured. A distinction without a difference you might say.

[Raja]

I pulled the DVD for Hondo Field and the initial investigation before the exclusion seemed rather perfunctory. The old Law & Order troupe of the boss calling the construction worker off when being interviewed by the detectives was good for a chuckle. Just a big 4 as no appearance of the Lieutenant or the DA.  One follow up police investigation to work around the exclusion , but none when the rape defense came out of nowhere?

As far as the I know this guy actors. The other shift supervisor on the oil rig was one of the soldiers on the Vietnam War series Tour of Duty. The  bailiff's, LA County Sheriff's Deputy uniform colors being wrong enough to give me the bizarro feeling. And I wonder what part of the city's beaches had a calm tidal pool for the victims body to wash into in the Jaws homage opening.

On 6/9/2023 at 12:40 PM, shapeshifter said:

the prosecution discovers damning text messages from the accused to the victim.
When these are sprung on the accused at trial, it is obvious that these exhibits were not familiar to the defense attorney, which seems to violate everything I've ever heard on any law show about sharing evidence to the defense.

Well ADA McCoy had pulled that impeachment evidence for a testifying defendant trick many times, Deputy DA Dekker was in classic L&O mode, his indignation would only be matched by Ben Stone. Deputies Dekker and Stanton's interaction being the best part of this episode.

[Raja]

As an episode without the Lieutenant reminds me that coming out of Total Recall everyone expected the big career from Rachel Ticotin. But probably to sell more advertising time the traditional L&O was cut to doing nothing 

[shapeshifter]

I watched all the episodes in production order, but, even so, the weird shake up of the cast kept taking me out of the suspension of disbelief. It was like watching a game of Musical Chairs in which, when the music stopped playing, some people were sitting in chairs that were the wrong size and shape. I always hated that game.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, shapeshifter said:

I watched all the episodes in production order, but, even so, the weird shake up of the cast kept taking me out of the suspension of disbelief. It was like watching a game of Musical Chairs in which, when the music stopped playing, some people were sitting in chairs that were the wrong size and shape. I always hated that game.

If you had watched in broadcast order, I guarantee your reaction would magnify this post's issue by 1,000.

[Xeliou66]

I found that this series is available for free on Amazon Prime, so I decided to rewatch it - I’ve watched it before but it’s been a long time - I’ll post thoughts on each episode here, I just watched episode 1.   
I think this show was actually not as awful as it’s remembered as, but it was miscast and a weaker version of original L&O, it was such a bad move to cancel the Mothership in favor of LA that I think it soured many people on LA from the start. 

Anyway, my thoughts on episode 1, titled Hollywood (very odd how the titled each episode after an LA location) - this was actually a pretty good episode - they were constantly reminding the viewers that they were in LA with the whole actors/Hollywood theme, that was sort of overdone in this one, I guess to remind viewers they weren’t in NYC anymore. But the case itself was interesting, with what started as the burglary ring targeting actors turning into a homicide case where it was revealed the mom of the young actress was behind the burglary ring, and it was a good twist that the fence they were giving the stolen items to was the estranged husband of the ringleader mom. Everything tied together pretty well and the case was solid enough.  
The characters however were just kind of there, not bad but not great, just as I recalled. Morales was the exception, he was really good and had a commanding presence, definitely the best character on the show. The 2 detectives, Winters and Jaruszalski, were decent but rather low key, while the second chair ADA to Morales, Evelyn Price (I had to look up her name, they never said it) was very bland and didn’t make much of an impact at all.    
Overall episode 1 was decent and slightly better than I remember the show - however I know the episodes were aired out of order later on and there were a ton of cast changes which I’m sure weakened the quality. I remember strongly disliking Dekker, the other lead prosecutor who alternated episodes with Morales until Morales became a detective. And I hated how the DA was more of an adversary than a protagonist, he wasn’t in episode 1 but I remember really disliking how they did that role.  
I look forward to watching each episode again and seeing what I think. 

 

 

[Raja]

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

(very odd how the titled each episode after an LA location)

I think was to signal unlike the mothership with it all on Manhattan in the 27th Precinct  that the new show focusing on the LAPD's equivalent of the Criminal Intent Major Case Squad, the Robbery Homicide Division was going all over Los Angeles. With jurisdiction issues coming up elsewhere on the board this weekend, even outside of the city limits  for the post finding the victim's remains turn on the East Pasadena (LA Sheriff's jurisdiction) episode. 

Edited September 17 by Raja

[Raja]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

The characters however were just kind of there, not bad but not great, just as I recalled. Morales was the exception, he was really good and had a commanding presence, definitely the best character on the show. The 2 detectives, Winters and Jaruszalski, were decent but rather low key, while the second chair ADA to Morales, Evelyn Price (I had to look up her name, they never said it) was very bland and didn’t make much of an impact at all.

What I got character wise from the first episode was that Detective Winters was a family man with compassion for the collateral damaged child of the killer and Deputy DA Morales was the son of a groundskeeper. Their partners very much in the junior partner mode left to be filled out in later episodes.

I did a re-watch at the beginning of the pandemic but still had forgotten that the Lieutenant had been recast. In this episode she, Wanda De Jesus  had no more to do than the other unnamed detective in the RHD squad room.

[Xeliou66]

29 minutes ago, Raja said:

What I got character wise from the first episode was that Detective Winters was a family man with compassion for the collateral damaged child of the killer and Deputy DA Morales was the son of a groundskeeper. Their partners very much in the junior partner mode left to be filled out in later episodes.

I did a re-watch at the beginning of the pandemic but still had forgotten that the Lieutenant had been recast. In this episode she, Wanda De Jesus  had no more to do than the other unnamed detective in the RHD squad room.

I like Morales a lot, I remembered liking him the most when I first watched the show and he had a very commanding presence it felt like in each of his scenes. He made the courtroom scenes good and it felt like there was more life to the show when he was onscreen. His second chair, Price, had very little to do and didn’t have an impact. 
As for the detectives, it felt like Jaruszalski was a bit more colorful whereas Winters was more stoic, but his compassion did show at the end. Yeah the Lieutenant had been recast and only had 1 line in the first episode I believe.  
Overall I felt like the first episode was actually pretty good, I enjoyed it fine even if the characters didn’t stand out as much. I know the show had a lot of chaos with episodes being aired out of order and people leaving, but the first episode was fine. 

[Raja]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:23 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Anyway, my thoughts on episode 1, titled Hollywood (very odd how the titled each episode after an LA location) - this was actually a pretty good episode - they were constantly reminding the viewers that they were in LA with the whole actors/Hollywood theme, that was sort of overdone in this one, I guess to remind viewers they weren’t in NYC anymore.

There was the Hollywood factor seen in the Julia Roberts episodes from the mothership but also thrown in was Det. Winters wondering why they were there for this assaults and burglary.  On The Closer why was Priority Homicide/Major Crimes called in instead of the local understanding why  RHD was there instead of the local division  like Hollywood Division detectives on Bosch taking the case.

[wknt3]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:23 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Anyway, my thoughts on episode 1, titled Hollywood (very odd how the titled each episode after an LA location) - this was actually a pretty good episode - they were constantly reminding the viewers that they were in LA with the whole actors/Hollywood theme, that was sort of overdone in this one, I guess to remind viewers they weren’t in NYC anymore.

To be fair NYC has always been a character in the franchise. And as I've mentioned before the spinoffs have always been most successful when they have something different to offer from the original and the biggest problem with this series was it was too similar to the original, so I can totally understand why they were putting LA front and center. I do think it would have been better to focus on another aspect of LA since the city does not lack for distinctive local flavor that still ties in to national issues and the franchise had already covered the industry pretty thoroughly, but there were a lot of missed opportunities with this series so that's par for the course.

[Xeliou66]

So I just watched episode 2, Echo Park, and this one, well it just wasn’t good. The storyline had a lot of holes on the legal - I disliked the whole plot about Winters’ wife being one of the cops who put the defendant away years earlier for the fire it turned out she didn’t cause, and I couldn’t even figure out what to make of it - did Winters’ wife act improperly somehow? They never answered that question or the question of why the defendant confessed, and they never revealed what Winters’ wife’s role in it was, and the way Dekker quickly stipulated that the defendant was wrongfully convicted made it look like there was something to hide. It was a melodramatic plot point that went nowhere. 
Also, it introduced the DA, Jerry Hardin, who was not only an unlikable political hack but he also came off as a moron - it was obvious the defense would be able to show that the fire wasn’t arson, so why was he trying to bury it? It would look better for the DA’s office to come out in the open and admit they made a mistake, instead of putting a woman they had already falsely accused once back on trial where the defense could have a field day with everything. Hardin was right in wanting a plea to be reached though, so I don’t know why Dekker was so hell bent on a trial, and then he changed his tune at the end. The smart thing to do would’ve been to acknowledge the wrongful conviction and then make a deal. The defendant had been horribly abused by the psychopath victim, and she deserved leniency and sympathy IMO. A trial felt like a waste of time and was done just to prolong the episode to fill up screen time IMO, the whole legal thing could’ve been quickly put to bed it seemed like. 
Also, Dekker sucks, he came off as both smug and robotic the whole time, it was like they were trying to make him out to be this beacon of morality but he came off as just smug, and he didn’t have much personality at the same time. Whereas Morales had an authoritative and commanding presence while being likable and charming at the same time, Dekker had the presence of a robot while also coming off as a smug know it all. Dekker’s second chair, Lauren Stanton, was very bland just like the other female prosecutor. The Lieutenant was also extremely bland. Winters and Jaruszalski were okay, they are not bad but if the stuff with Winters’ wife was supposed to make the character more compelling it didn’t work. 
So this one was a stinker - the characters remained mostly bland and, in the case of Dekker and Hardin, unlikable, and the legal stuff was just a disaster, the case started out with promise but the legal stuff should’ve been over with quickly and was just poorly done. So a weak second episode after a decent first episode.

[Raja]

As I watched Echo Park my mind was saying why not the more famous Venice where the murder took place. 

The theme of the episode of Deputy DA Decker feeling sorry that the murder had its roots in a false imprisonment was recently done on the mothership with Detective Shaw. And I liked Terrance Howard in the role. The initial false confession rabbit hole just seemed like a waste of time. A lot of the new Lieutenant, more than I remember from following episodes seemed like the show trying to find its place still.

They did miss that Los Angeles County is not New York County with the DA worried about the LAPD being mad at his office as if that was the only department feeding cases to him. He is the DA of 88 cities and the county Sheriff's jurisdiction. Perhaps the unseen Chief or someone from the system putting pressure on him should have been shown instead of it all coming from the DA.

It seemed clear that Mrs Winter as a detective was part of a rush to judgement and some ineffectual defense saw the first confession, for a different reason than the man who said he killed the faux Manson, and conviction. I don't think an actual innocents' project lawyer would have let that stipulation Decker but I guess ethics demanded he worked for the single client and not all the others in a similar position.

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

As I watched Echo Park my mind was saying why not the more famous Venice where the murder took place. 

The theme of the episode of Deputy DA Decker feeling sorry that the murder had its roots in a false imprisonment was recently done on the mothership with Detective Shaw. And I liked Terrance Howard in the role. The initial false confession rabbit hole just seemed like a waste of time. A lot of the new Lieutenant, more than I remember from following episodes seemed like the show trying to find its place still.

They did miss that Los Angeles County is not New York County with the DA worried about the LAPD being mad at his office as if that was the only department feeding cases to him. He is the DA of 88 cities and the county Sheriff's jurisdiction. Perhaps the unseen Chief or someone from the system putting pressure on him should have been shown instead of it all coming from the DA.

It seemed clear that Mrs Winter as a detective was part of a rush to judgement and some ineffectual defense saw the first confession, for a different reason than the man who said he killed the faux Manson, and conviction. I don't think an actual innocents' project lawyer would have let that stipulation Decker but I guess ethics demanded he worked for the single client and not all the others in a similar position.

I couldn’t stand Dekker - he reeked of smugness. I recall disliking him the first time I watched the show and I disliked him in this episode, maybe he’ll improve but he just came off as both smug and robotic in his delivery. 
I was confused by the whole confession/wrongful conviction stuff and I thought it was very unclear what Mrs Winters role was in it, and the episode made it look like she had something to hide. The whole legal portion of the show was a mess and a trial seemed like such a waste of time. The episode just wasn’t very good IMO.