S01:E07: Gilgamesh

[Guest]

Quote

Weir and his team are in desperate straits. With the Shared Data Act about to pass, Weir's paranoia about Ben and anxiety over Crowley begin to get the better of him as he tries not to disappear down a rabbit hole of possibilities.

 

[dwmarch]

Some interesting twists in this episode. I guess Crowley isn't Peter Weller after all? It would be weird for him to just be Chief Henchman but I appreciate that Real Crowley is smart enough to send someone to get beat up in his place.

I also have to take a moment to appreciate the man-in-the-middle play here. Crowley figured out that Weir and his old buddy had been using the same code since they were kids. He then figures out the channel they were using to communicate and uses it to mess with Weir.

I just noticed this show is totally shot in Vancouver. During the Weir-Faux Crowley confrontation there is a very clear shot of a Telus building and the random gift basket that shows up has a bottle of Peller Estates wine in it which is a BC wine.

The show has done a pretty good job at being ambiguous but Hailey has to be a player, right? If she's an innocent civilian caught up in all of this she is being way too level-headed about everything. Plus she just casually walked up to an FBI agent and gave her the biggest break in the case ever. After she did that, she just saunters back to the group like nothing happened. She also ninja'd herself a new pair of pants too. I think she's from some Other Government Agency but I guess she could be from the corporate world.

Jo, the tenacious FBI agent does not seem like the type who is going to sell out even if she knows the bad guys will kill her for doing the right thing. But I love that when her boss says "what can I give you to make this go away?" she takes him up on it. Might as well get your old job back while you can. There's no way she didn't make a copy of that data.

The only thing that took me out of the show for a second was when they called out Weir for not liking guns. But this is because I have watched all of 24 so I have seen Kiefer Sutherland gun down hordes of bad guys and it would not have surprised me to see him doing it here. But it wasn't until they called it out that I realized he hasn't actually been involved in much if any gunplay so far.

[katenm]

I, too, keep half-expecting Hailey to be a player; the big twist will be if she's not. lol

I am thoroughly enjoying this show. My one disappointment is trying to pass off Vancouver, a city I love, for Washington, DC, another I love. The light is different, and it drives me nuts. (The Americans drove me nuts in the same way, substituting NYC for DC.)

[chaifan]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

The show has done a pretty good job at being ambiguous but Hailey has to be a player, right?

I posted this an episode or two ago, but my theory is...  Hailey is Crowley. 

I don't like the fantasy flashes.  I don't want to have to wonder if every scene is real or some fantasy playing out in Weir's head. 

I didn't like this episode.  I don't feel that we moved forward at all, except to find out Jo's boss is corrupt. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I posted this an episode or two ago, but my theory is...  Hailey is Crowley. 

I could see that but think that she would have to be the original Crowley’s daughter. 

 

17 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I don't feel that we moved forward at all, except to find out Jo's boss is corrupt. 

Interesting because I thought this episode moved forward more than the rest because to clarified who the villain is for John. It answered the lingering questions about Ben and Valence and moved the FBI agent closer to the main plot. 

[chaifan]

17 minutes ago, Dani said:

I could see that but think that she would have to be the original Crowley’s daughter. 

Crowley is the new Dread Pirate Roberts.  😁

But yes, good point.  So perhaps she's "a" Crowley, but not "the" Crowley. 

 

[blackwing]

14 hours ago, chaifan said:

I posted this an episode or two ago, but my theory is...  Hailey is Crowley. 

I don't like the fantasy flashes.  I don't want to have to wonder if every scene is real or some fantasy playing out in Weir's head. 

I didn't like this episode.  I don't feel that we moved forward at all, except to find out Jo's boss is corrupt. 

Ben is/was friends with Crowley, wouldn't he know if Crowley had a daughter and shouldn't he suspect that Hailey could be her?

I agree that I don't like the fantasy flashes.  So all of the scenes of an alive Valence, are those imagined or real?  For the other ones, like the one where John shot Ben, John is in the room and we see his face before the fantasy sequence, so it seems to imply that he is imagining things.  But the various scenes of an alive Valence, was John shown before we saw these?

I'm also confused as to whether Ben was the one that wanted the Shared Data Act passed, as Not(?) Crowley told John.

[Ceindreadh]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Ben is/was friends with Crowley, wouldn't he know if Crowley had a daughter and shouldn't he suspect that Hailey could be her?

I agree that I don't like the fantasy flashes.  So all of the scenes of an alive Valence, are those imagined or real?  For the other ones, like the one where John shot Ben, John is in the room and we see his face before the fantasy sequence, so it seems to imply that he is imagining things.  But the various scenes of an alive Valence, was John shown before we saw these?

I'm also confused as to whether Ben was the one that wanted the Shared Data Act passed, as Not(?) Crowley told John.

Depends on how old Hailey is.  If she was born after Ben fell out with Crowley, he might not know about her.

All the scenes of alive Valence were in the past, back when he was buying the tablet from his 'guy', and then recording the message for John.

As to whether Ben wants the Shared Data Act passed, that's something which could be plausibly true.  But then, Crowley isn't exactly the most trustworthy of sources.

I really hope that Agent Madi has kept a copy of that file and is just playing along until she has a chance to show it to the right person.  I'm undecided as to whether she knew the boss was going to try to bribe her to forget about it, or if she just decided on the spot to play along. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Ben is/was friends with Crowley, wouldn't he know if Crowley had a daughter and shouldn't he suspect that Hailey could be her?

Not necessarily. Writers love the secret child trope. 

 

18 hours ago, katenm said:

I, too, keep half-expecting Hailey to be a player; the big twist will be if she's not. lol

It so obvious that I kinda hope they don’t go there. In the flashback episode where John’s team were killed they were talking about the fake dating profile. That surprised me because I don’t think they were supposed to know about it. I think it will be relevant but I’m not sure how. 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

All the scenes of alive Valence were in the past, back when he was buying the tablet from his 'guy', and then recording the message for John.

Ah, thanks for the explanation.  That makes sense.  So he was buying the device that he inserted into the fake stone fossil.

32 minutes ago, Dani said:

Not necessarily. Writers love the secret child trope. 

It so obvious that I kinda hope they don’t go there. In the flashback episode where John’s team were killed they were talking about the fake dating profile. That surprised me because I don’t think they were supposed to know about it. I think it will be relevant but I’m not sure how. 

I would have to believe that Hailey is involved somehow, otherwise there's absolutely no reason why she would still be with him.  I forget, did she say what she does for a living?  I know it's only been a few days, but why is she so invested in John that she is willing to take days off of work and be willing to go into hiding and get shot at?  After the first time they were discovered and shot at, you'd think she'd hightail it home.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I would have to believe that Hailey is involved somehow, otherwise there's absolutely no reason why she would still be with him.

I agree. Mostly I hope it’s something more unexpected and creative than a double cross. 

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I forget, did she say what she does for a living?

She’s a lawyer. 

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I know it's only been a few days, but why is she so invested in John that she is willing to take days off of work and be willing to go into hiding and get shot at? 

Given the attempting kidnapping and money she embezzled, I don’t think that she is taking time off work. It still doesn’t add up and she has to be up to something but they did give her a pretty good motivation to go with him initially. 

[christie]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:29 PM, Dani said:

In the flashback episode where John’s team were killed they were talking about the fake dating profile. That surprised me because I don’t think they were supposed to know about it. I think it will be relevant but I’m not sure how. 

I got the impression that they were the ones who created it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, christie said:

I got the impression that they were the ones who created it.

So did I but that raises other questions for me. We see him appear to react to finding out about the profile after he is wanted for killing Homm. If he really didn’t know, why did they set it him up? If he didn’t know, why is he lying? 

[christie]

6 minutes ago, Dani said:

So did I but that raises other questions for me. We see him appear to react to finding out about the profile after he is wanted for killing Homm. If he really didn’t know, why did they set it him up? If he didn’t know, why is he lying? 

I don't think he knows. In one of the early episodes (I binged these episodes so I don't remember episode numbers) Hailey tells him that she found him on a dating site, he looks and acts surprised, says that he doesn't have a profile and Hailey says that maybe his friends created it so that he could find someone - that's what I'm going with for now since, on this show, nothing is, necessarily, as it seems. I don't know what the deal with Hailey is and I don't trust Ben.