S01.E01: The Cinderella Thing

[dubbel zout]

After a hostile attack on a British vessel, seasoned diplomat Kate Wyler assumes a new role in the UK that puts her skills—and marriage—to the test.

Drops on Netflix 4/20.

[metaphor]

I've been awaiting this show for Keri Russell, who I loved for six years as Elizabeth Jennings on the Americans. So I was already inclined to cotton on to Kate, but I'm pleased to find that the other characters likewise intrigue me, her Deputy and the CIA station chief most of all. Still trying to figure out the Kate's dynamic with her husband. All-in-all, I found this to be a good introduction and am eager to see more. 

[Enigma X]

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

[dubbel zout]

I was also predisposed to like this because of my affection for Keri Russell, and I'm happy I wasn't let down.

I laughed so hard when Hal explained to the wide-eyed aide that the previous ambassador got the job because he'd raised $2 million for the president's campaign. I'm sorry, but two million dollars would barely get an invitation to one of the fancier inauguration balls. Try at least $20 million, and that's probably on the lower end of the scale. I'm really surprised that wasn't fixed.

[Constantinople]

I see the story so far is unconstrained by reality.

 

I'm not sure yet if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

[txhorns79]

4 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair.

I did laugh that when she went to present her credentials and got pulled into the surprise meeting with the Foreign Secretary and PM, her hair looked unwashed/uncombed, but by the time it was over, it looked as though they had done her hair for her. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

I’m hoping it’s plot related (like another show I watched had a character develop an aversion to bathing after being waterboarded) because otherwise the asking her husband to smell her armpits was a weird addition.

[dubbel zout]

It's to show that she's focused on getting the work done. What does looking groomed have to do with that? (/sarcasm, in case it's not clear.) It's annoying to me that Kate's so contemptuous of soft diplomacy like the Vogue shoot, when it's been show to be effective, and I'm sure she's used a version of it herself when she's had to. 

I'm loving Hal, though MY GOD he's a handful. Rufus Sewell's American accent is pretty good.

[Artsda]

The not brushing the hair and wardrobe is not appealing.

I get the title though they have to make her Cinderella at the ball. 

I am interested in the series, fast paced and interesting so far. 

[TivoFan]

23 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair.

The dirty, unbrushed hair bothered me a lot. And it bothered me even more when her hair looked washed and brushed in the middle of the same scene. The continuity director is not paying attention. 
 

I am loving Rufus Sewell in this role. After watching him as a stern Nazi, it’s great to see his mischievous smile and his charm. I can totally understand why Kate would be annoyed with him, but he’s entertaining on the screen. 

[Enigma X]

Rufus Sewell is hot.

[Irlandesa]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:15 PM, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

I don't know if it's going to be a thing or if it's just going to be the fact that she got pulled off a transatlantic flight and right into working. 

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

It's annoying to me that Kate's so contemptuous of soft diplomacy like the Vogue shoot, when it's been show to be effective, and I'm sure she's used a version of it herself when she's had to.

She may not have ever had to.  It sounds like her husband was the charismatic ambassador at foreign embassies while she took the more serious and straight forward role.  It is a little hard to believe that she never had to do anything with soft diplomacy as the wife of a heavy hitter but then again, we don't know how long they've been married.  During the phone call where he wondered why he didn't have a car like she did in a previous assignment, she mentioned she had a car in a previous assignment because of the job she had.  And she mentioned they weren't married at the time.  (Or maybe she was just trying to say that it wasn't the marriage that got her the car but her job.) 

[marybennet]

I don't love the hair thing either, though my own is on the messy side, it must be said.  It feels to me like an attempt to give her a personality really fast, sort of like that show with Kyra Sedgwick in which she ate (junk food? The Closer?) all the time.  Come to think of it, it's also a little like what they did with Ainsley Hayes on The West Wing, who was always in search of muffins and peaches.

I also think they're trying to make the character look a little bit like the real-world diplomat Samantha Power, whose hair is straight and flat and comparatively unstyled (that is, looks like the hair of a real person but not like the hair of a tv person), though not messy.

[Sweet-tea]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:15 PM, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

I noticed the same thing. She doesn’t look very good and her hair looks dirty. Are they trying to make her look bad? I understand her character isn’t the glam type, but they seem to be taking it a bit far. She projects kind of a masculine energy to me, especially in the scene where she’s having her husband sniff her armpits. It is not easy to make Keri Russell look unattractive but they seem to be giving it a try. Seems overkill.

I don’t know what to think yet about her relationship with her husband. It looks like they’re setting up problems with him possibly feeling overshadowed by her. I’m going to keep watching because I like Keri a lot. Enjoyed her in The Americans and I even remember her from Felicity. 

Also, Keri Russell has such lovely hair and it looked terrible here. Is she wearing a wig? How did they make her hair look thin and lank? Sorry! I know I sound obsessed. 

 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Cementhead]

I love Keri Russell and tried watching this last night solely because of her.   I didn't even make it to the end of the first episode.  It was far too 'into the weeds' for me on a Friday night with the secretary of this and the secretary of that.  I will maybe try it again when I have a better attention span but I think I will probably forget all about it by tomorrow. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Cementhead

[DonnaMae]

I stopped watching after the first episode because of all the swearing.  It was f..k this, f..k that plus other words that I found offensive. I also don't like Keri Russell's character.  I was mainly watching because of Rufus Sewell, whom I really like, but I will skip it.

[circumvent]

I started the first episode but I don't think I will even finish because of the total rewriting of history

Keri Russel wants to go to Kabul so bad because she doesn't want to "throw away all that we [American's and allies] built there. Oh, excuse me. The only things American built in Kabul was a corrupt puppet government, a lot of richness for arms dealers, a lot of misery for 90% of the people. Maybe she is one of those who believe that because Kabul and a couple of other cities thrived during the occupation, with women and girls having rights, that's a very, very narrow knowledge of Afghanistan. 90% of the population is rural and there are several accounts of women saying that the Taliban was bad and they were afraid but with the Americans it was worse because they never knew when the bombs would fall,  and the mercenaries would attack - those accounts have a hard time breaching the mainstream media/stenographers of the government.

Why is this important? One reason is because wars create refugees. People who lose everything and risk their lives and their families' lives to make it to Europe and the US. As it happens, I am just, at this moment, listening to a podcast about a book on refugees and their stories. Why do they still believe the US is a good place, a free place for them to come? Pop culture. Films, series, movies, tv, music. It is all propaganda, and the whole world has this image of a country where things will be better. Just listening to some of the stories makes my heart sink. And the refugees in the book are in Europe, which is a tab "less worse" than the US

So, this "diplomat" wants to keep being the image of the American savior who builds better lives. It is not a matter of suspension of disbelief. It is a matter of complete erasure of reality and accepting a fantasy based on real events. 

No thanks.

 

[Sweet-tea]

What the heck happened to the continuity person? Was he/she out to lunch? Keri’s hair goes from lank and dirty to clean and styled, then back to lank and dirty, back to clean and styled… all on the same day. Sloppy error!

I don’t like her character. She seems like a defensive, unhappy person who has an air or irritation around her all the time. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[Adgirl]

10 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

I stopped watching after the first episode because of all the swearing.  It was f..k this, f..k that plus other words that I found offensive. I also don't like Keri Russell's character.  I was mainly watching because of Rufus Sewell, whom I really like, but I will skip it.

I almost did too but trust me it's well worth a watch. I'm on my second watch.

I think they were going for Tia Leoni's Madame Secretary of State in the way she didn't like fancy clothes or stylists. However Tia Leoni's hair wasn't as messy but she tried.

 I think they should pull back the comedic bits just a smidge. So many of those moments are either forced or entirely wtf.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Adgirl

[Espy]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:52 PM, marybennet said:

I also think they're trying to make the character look a little bit like the real-world diplomat Samantha Power, whose hair is straight and flat and comparatively unstyled (that is, looks like the hair of a real person but not like the hair of a tv person), though not messy.

I also thought they were basing her on Samantha Power, though Samantha is at least neat & professional. 

[Daisychain]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:20 AM, deaja said:

On 4/20/2023 at 6:15 PM, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

I’m hoping it’s plot related (like another show I watched had a character develop an aversion to bathing after being waterboarded) because otherwise the asking her husband to smell her armpits was a weird addition.

I found this so strange - there was one scene when her hair was washed.  So, I started watching on Friday night and Saturday got to about episode 7, and then I did what you're not supposed to do -- I went to the last chapter of the book to find out what happened.  And the hair was the same, with the exception of fancy dress up scenes when at least it was in a bun.

I wonder if it was finally explained - the pit smelling scene - maybe @deaja had it.  I was married for 30 years and never once asked my husband whether I was smelly.  At the time in Ep 1 I just thought she was out of time, late, and behind the 8-ball.  

If they were trying to make the point that she is a work-a-day foreign service officer and not prime-time ready, it was hugely clumsy and so unreasonably sustained.  Even in one of the later episodes there was a scene with the impeccable foreign minister in which she was backlit and her hair was sticking up.  I mean, mine does that but there's products for that.  A very exaggerated choice.

[buttersister]

Keri Russel is an executive producer so I have to think these quirks are good with her. Ways to establish her character? I guess. I can do without any more smelly tests, but "not-polished" grooming on an everyday basis seems to be where they're going.  That'll likely be balanced by her brilliant diplomatic skills! Long as Rufus Sewell sticks around.

[dubbel zout]

It would be funnier if she did always brush her hair but it never stayed neat.

[IntrovertRed]

I didn't watch The Americans, but I loved her on Felicity, so I decided to watch even though most political shows are often too complicated for my tiny brain.

I love the chemistry she has with Rufus though I think she looks she looks a lot younger than their eight-year age difference. Also enjoying her chemistry with David Gyasi, he's gorgeous.  I don't get all the fuss about her hair, I don't think it's that bad.

I definitely suggest watching with the captions on, but so far, I'm really enjoying it.  

Edited April 23, 2023 by IntrovertRed

[kay1864]

So many shows do this, but it bugs me when someone flies to England/Europe during the day, and then it’s morning when they get there. The show compounds that error by having them talk to someone in Washington where it’s like 5 AM but it’s bright daylight out.

At least they showed that it was nighttime in Washington when the ship was bombed in daylight, but it’s a bit of a stretch to think that this couple would still be awake at midnight or 1 AM.

[ahpny]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:43 PM, TivoFan said:

I am loving Rufus Sewell in this role. After watching him as a stern Nazi, it’s great to see his mischievous smile and his charm.

At least from the first episode, the show is fine, though the CGI exploding ship seemed a bit off. But at first I had a bit of trouble accepting Rufus Sewell and Keri Russell as "nice" and/or "good." I know both actors have had deservedly long and diverse careers, but I'm most familiar with them, respectively, from Man in the High Castle (where Rufus played a cold-eyed American Nazi) and The Americans (where Kerri played a cold-eyed Russian spy). Nevertheless, that both seem credible here shows their respective acting prowess.

[pasdetrois]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:23 PM, DonnaMae said:

I stopped watching after the first episode because of all the swearing. 

Once the entertainment industry was allowed to show full nudity and sex and to use profanity, the floodgates opened. It's as if no one in the history of the world ever spoke without the eff word. It's as if all scriptwriters are 12 year old boys (apologies to well-mannered boys everywhere). I'm impatiently waiting for this trend to end so we can get back to great, imaginative writing.

Typical Hollywood doesn't know how to portray smart, tough women, so they give her dirty hair and have her husband smell her crotch and armpits. Good gawd almighty.

As a Washingtonian, I'm a sucker for a good spy/government/diplomacy series. I love Keri, but I am really enjoying the peripheral characters. I don't have their names or titles yet, but props to the awesome CIA lead, the guy who is Kate's key liaison/assistant, and the - I think - chief of staff. What talent!

And of course we have Rufus, whose Lord Melbourne in Victoria gave me daddy issues.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Sweet-tea]

7 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Once the entertainment industry was allowed to show full nudity and sex and to use profanity, the floodgates opened. It's as if no one in the history of the world ever spoke without the eff word. It's as if all scriptwriters are 12 year old boys (apologies to well-mannered boys everywhere). I'm impatiently waiting for this trend to end so we can get back to great, imaginative writing.

Typical Hollywood doesn't know how to portray smart, tough women, so they give her dirty hair and have her husband smell her crotch and armpits. Good gawd almighty.

As a Washingtonian, I'm a sucker for a good spy/government/diplomacy series. I love Keri, but I am really enjoying the peripheral characters. I don't have their names or titles yet, but props to the awesome CIA lead, the guy who is Kate's key liaison/assistant, and the - I think - chief of staff. What talent!

And of course we have Rufus, whose Lord Melbourne in Victoria gave me daddy issues.

 

ITA! I really notice it in Netflix series and also in R-rated movies. It’s like they want to justify the rating so they thrown in as many F-words as they can. In some director’s (Tarantino, Scorsese) I’ve been so distracted by it I’ve had to stop watching. I keep waiting fo the next F-word and can’t enjoy the movie.

I recognize Russell but can’t remember the last show or movie I’ve seen him in, so I want to check out his IMDB. I like him and he’s hot!

 

[SoMuchTV]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:23 PM, DonnaMae said:

I stopped watching after the first episode because of all the swearing.  It was f..k this, f..k that plus other words that I found offensive. I also don't like Keri Russell's character.  I was mainly watching because of Rufus Sewell, whom I really like, but I will skip it.

 

23 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

ITA! I really notice it in Netflix series and also in R-rated movies. It’s like they want to justify the rating so they thrown in as many F-words as they can. In some director’s (Tarantino, Scorsese) I’ve been so distracted by it I’ve had to stop watching. I keep waiting fo the next F-word and can’t enjoy the movie.

I’m not a cusser IRL but I generally don’t mind it in a show that I otherwise like. But I did notice something here. I watch with the CCs on, and most of the time the f-words were left out of the captions. They only seemed to include it when the dialogue wouldn’t make sense without it. It made me wonder if they were pre planning to make it more suitable to release in some other medium. I’m not sure what, though. Airline entertainment?  Cable or broadcast TV? Or maybe they were just trying to fit the most important dialogue into the captions. 

[dubbel zout]

Please move further profanity/sex discussion to the Small Talk thread so it doesn't derail the episode discussion. Thanks!

[Bastet]

I tried Madame Secretary and gave up because of the husband, and now I think I may not even try with this one because of the husband.  I don't know any of the actors (I mean, I know who Keri Russell is and have heard Rufus Sewell's name, but I've never seen either of them in anything) but I kind of liked what I saw of Kate in the preview Netflix put up, and liked Debora Cahn's work on The West Wing, so I gave it a look, but her husband is too much. 

The pacing feels a bit uneven, but I do like some of the supporting characters so maybe I'll continue on a bit. 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Bastet

[Andyourlittledog2]

On 4/25/2023 at 6:47 AM, pasdetrois said:

And of course we have Rufus, whose Lord Melbourne in Victoria gave me daddy issues.

When I saw Rufus Sewell on the screen here I swooned. He is one of about four actors who I actually think are handsome in that swoony way. His character, Hal, though I want to punch pretty much all of the time. But that's a discussion for later episodes.

I binge watched the whole eight episodes and loved it. Keri Russell is great in it, but Rufus Sewell steals the show for me. I want to see season two like now.

[TiredMe]

I’m watching solely for Rufus Sewell. I’m generally not a fan of political shows but he’s so dreamy I can’t help myself. Decent first episode setting everything up. 

[Paloma]

My husband and I started watching this on vacation, but I couldn't even get through the first episode because (1) I didn't want to think about politics on vacation (even fictional politics) and (2) the situation and dialogue (including husband-wife interactions) felt too artificial. But we've been home a week now and my husband wanted to give it another chance, so we rewatched the first episode last night. This time I was able to get through the episode, though it still didn't grab me. However, my husband likes it. I'll see how I feel after the second episode, but there are so many things to watch on Netflix and other streamers that I don't want to waste time on shows that are not really compelling or at least entertaining.

[ProudMary]

I've been wanting to watch this for weeks, but life got in the way. The draw for me was that it's created by Debora Cahn. I didn't realize until the credits rolled that Eli Attie was a consulting producer, so another plus. I just started watching tonight and I'm definitely all in.  

The writing is very good and the entire cast is strong. I'm always up for projects starring Rufus Sewell, although it's somewhat jarring to see him in a London-based series with an American accent! Also good to see Rory Kinnear, Miguel Sandoval and Celia Emrie in supporting roles. 

[SlovakPrincess]

I wasn’t sold on this show for most of the first episode… but they got me hooked with the surprise! Hal kidnapping at the end.

[whiporee]

On 4/22/2023 at 10:42 AM, circumvent said:

I started the first episode but I don't think I will even finish because of the total rewriting of history

Keri Russel wants to go to Kabul so bad because she doesn't want to "throw away all that we [American's and allies] built there. Oh, excuse me. The only things American built in Kabul was a corrupt puppet government, a lot of richness for arms dealers, a lot of misery for 90% of the people. Maybe she is one of those who believe that because Kabul and a couple of other cities thrived during the occupation, with women and girls having rights, that's a very, very narrow knowledge of Afghanistan. 90% of the population is rural and there are several accounts of women saying that the Taliban was bad and they were afraid but with the Americans it was worse because they never knew when the bombs would fall,  and the mercenaries would attack - those accounts have a hard time breaching the mainstream media/stenographers of the government.

Why is this important? One reason is because wars create refugees. People who lose everything and risk their lives and their families' lives to make it to Europe and the US. As it happens, I am just, at this moment, listening to a podcast about a book on refugees and their stories. Why do they still believe the US is a good place, a free place for them to come? Pop culture. Films, series, movies, tv, music. It is all propaganda, and the whole world has this image of a country where things will be better. Just listening to some of the stories makes my heart sink. And the refugees in the book are in Europe, which is a tab "less worse" than the US

So, this "diplomat" wants to keep being the image of the American savior who builds better lives. It is not a matter of suspension of disbelief. It is a matter of complete erasure of reality and accepting a fantasy based on real events. 

No thanks.

 

You may think the narrative you have is the correct one, but it doesn't strain credibility to think that the people who were involved in the area thought/think they were doing the good and right things in bad circumstances. Very few members of the foreign service are going to be twirling their mustaches and laughing at how they fucked over the Afghan people. So while you may think the occupation was horrid and unjustifiable, the people who were making the attempts to rebuild and restore the country did not, and it's not a narrative stretch how they reacted. 

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, whiporee said:

You may think the narrative you have is the correct one, but it doesn't strain credibility to think that the people who were involved in the area thought/think they were doing the good and right things in bad circumstances

I question that too but fine, let's assume that most people who were involved thought they were doing good. The line was said by a character who was not dealing directly with the people, she is a bureaucrat, and it was said after a long occupation where a little self reflection should have dawn on anyone who was ever there. It is pure propaganda. I am not watching so I don't know hte direction the show took but it is not a secret that depending on the type of access the producers asked, the government demands the final say on the scripts. If this is happening here, I can't say but it happens. I reject any praise of imperialism. I am too old to just "enjoy" the lies I have been fed in the name of entertainment. 

[Anela]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:15 PM, dubbel zout said:

It would be funnier if she did always brush her hair but it never stayed neat.

This is what happens to me.

did her husband step in front of that car on purpose, to bet a ride from the officer? He isn’t stupid, and he is apparently manipulative.  

[Anela]

I’m just going to enjoy this for what it is. I like the main actors. 

[akiss]

17 hours ago, Anela said:

This is what happens to me.

did her husband step in front of that car on purpose, to bet a ride from the officer? He isn’t stupid, and he is apparently manipulative.  

I'm pretty sure he did it on purpose. 

[merylinkid]

He definitely did.   He deliberately looked the wrong way so he could be the "stupid American who doesn't understand England" in order to con a ride.

[sistermagpie]

On 4/20/2023 at 7:15 PM, Enigma X said:

I am still on the first episode and like it thus far, but I really am puzzled why the main character has an aversion to showering and washing her hair. I know no one has said that, but it is heavily implied. I get that she is more of a field officer-type person and not a suit, but the trope that people who work dangerous ground spy jobs prefer being dirty when there is a perfectly nice bathtub to freshen up in is dull.

Finally started watching this and that stood out to me too (obviously it's meant to, of course). It's one thing to not want to be dressed up like Cinderella, but anybody in any job would know it's better not to actually show up with B.O. In the time it took her to have her husband sniff her twice she could have jumped in the shower--it's not like she'd have to worry about it messing up her hair and makeup. It's not like she'd miss her bus if she didn't run out the door immediately either!

Also, really happy I'm not the only one who found her suddenly clean hair jarring.

That said, so far it's a unique show with lots of characters I'm interested in.

[Clanstarling]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:20 AM, deaja said:

I’m hoping it’s plot related (like another show I watched had a character develop an aversion to bathing after being waterboarded) because otherwise the asking her husband to smell her armpits was a weird addition.

I just figured she didn't have a lot of time to get ready. But her dirty hair bugged me. Her getting her pits sniffed did not. Some people/couples are very comfortable with that kind of stuff.

On 4/21/2023 at 8:22 PM, Irlandesa said:

During the phone call where he wondered why he didn't have a car like she did in a previous assignment, she mentioned she had a car in a previous assignment because of the job she had.  And she mentioned they weren't married at the time.  (Or maybe she was just trying to say that it wasn't the marriage that got her the car but her job.) 

My take was that she got the car because of the job, and that she underscored that with the fact they hadn't been married at the time.

I watched it for Keri Russell because of The Americans. I enjoyed it, and the hook at the end was good. But I'll have to watch it myself, the mister didn't like it. So it will take me awhile, as I usually don't watch by myself unless I'm exercising.

[A.Ham]

Just started this yesterday afternoon and love, love, love this show! Not surprising since I also loved The West Wing. I even clocked it as being similar to TWW and then saw Deborah Cahn's name on the second episode. 

Yes, you do have to have suspension of disbelief, but is there any television show where you don't have to do that to varying degrees? I mean, show me a television program that sticks to everyday realities and I will show you one that no one watches.

I only saw the first three episodes but hoping to have time to catch the rest in the next couple of days...