S06.E21: A Beautiful Day

[Whimsy]

Quote

Dr. Glassman and Dr. Murphy's relationship may be irreparably damaged following a tense moment during surgery. While Dr. Reznick struggles during her parental leave, Dr. Park may just be the one she needs the most.

Original airdate 4/24/23

[Annber03]

And here we go with Shaun and Lea becoming parents... 

Oof. That tension between Glassman and Shaun. I liked his talk with Lim, and how she handled the whole thing with him and Shaun throughout. And I felt for him when he talked about realizing that the best thing for his patients might involve him having to put down his tools :(.

And Andrews continuing to find conflict with the nurses, too. 

On the plus side, it was nice to see Jordan and Daniel getting on well this episode and hanging out together :). 

On to the season finale!

[thuganomics85]

This episode has suddenly made me wonder what would Shaun's versions of "dad jokes" end up being!

Definitely feel like I've seen a variation of the whole "Growth/tumor changes someone's personality for the better, so they worry about removing it and going back to their bad ways" story on medical shows, so this one didn't hold many surprises but it was decent enough.  I guess the father holding his daughter's hand again was a step in the right direction, but he still seemed colder than normal, so I guess the "dick" he originally was will continue to be a part of him, but maybe that time will lead him to change for the better.  Always great seeing John Billingsley!

The other case was certainly going to be a rough one no matter what since the good option was a terminally ill kid getting an extra nine months to live instead of just one.  The conflict between the parents; the husband clinging on to hope, the wife being more realistic about it; is probably something that happens a lot in real life and was well-acted enough (always good seeing Lara Jean Chorostecki as well!)  At least Andrews came through for them at the end.  Even helped saved his relationship with Villanueva after he almost torpedoed it (again!) by asking her to do a little bit of snitching for him.  Dammit, Andrews, get it together, man!

Jerome as Santa Claus apparently just woke something up in Asher!

Reznick apparently wasn't prepared for half of stuff when it comes to being a single mother, but good think Super Dad Park was around to help out.  Yeah, they're probably going to be back together come finale time.

Shaun ends up being right that Glassman is compromised, but of course, Glassy is still upset with him for the way he approaches things.  Which... admittedly, still had a lot of Shaun's normal theatrics, but considering how much Glassman was initially pushing back against him, I kind of feel like he didn't have much choice.  Like, I really doubt if he talked to him (again) before Lim, it would made things even better.  I know a lot is going on with him right now, but I feel like Glassman is just being kind of a jerk right now.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, thuganomics85 said:

Reznick apparently wasn't prepared for half of stuff when it comes to being a single mother

I liked the baby's reaction when she asked the Alexa to start playing music :p. Kid was like, "...what the heck?" 

[SunnyBeBe]

33 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

This episode has suddenly made me wonder what would Shaun's versions of "dad jokes" end up being!

Definitely feel like I've seen a variation of the whole "Growth/tumor changes someone's personality for the better, so they worry about removing it and going back to their bad ways" story on medical shows, so this one didn't hold many surprises but it was decent enough.  I guess the father holding his daughter's hand again was a step in the right direction, but he still seemed colder than normal, so I guess the "dick" he originally was will continue to be a part of him, but maybe that time will lead him to change for the better.  Always great seeing John Billingsley!

The other case was certainly going to be a rough one no matter what since the good option was a terminally ill kid getting an extra nine months to live instead of just one.  The conflict between the parents; the husband clinging on to hope, the wife being more realistic about it; is probably something that happens a lot in real life and was well-acted enough (always good seeing Lara Jean Chorostecki as well!)  At least Andrews came through for them at the end.  Even helped saved his relationship with Villanueva after he almost torpedoed it (again!) by asking her to do a little bit of snitching for him.  Dammit, Andrews, get it together, man!

Jerome as Santa Claus apparently just woke something up in Asher!

Reznick apparently wasn't prepared for half of stuff when it comes to being a single mother, but good think Super Dad Park was around to help out.  Yeah, they're probably going to be back together come finale time.

Shaun ends up being right that Glassman is compromised, but of course, Glassy is still upset with him for the way he approaches things.  Which... admittedly, still had a lot of Shaun's normal theatrics, but considering how much Glassman was initially pushing back against him, I kind of feel like he didn't have much choice.  Like, I really doubt if he talked to him (again) before Lim, it would made things even better.  I know a lot is going on with him right now, but I feel like Glassman is just being kind of a jerk right now.

I agree about Shaun and his attempts to convince Glassman something was off.  I wasn’t really sure, but Glassman wasn’t either.  For me, the test of judgment is when competence is challenged.  A reasonable person would consider the risk and make sure, before moving forward.  But, Glassman didn’t care.  He was convinced that something was better than nothing.  I’ve noticed that old male attorneys are often keen on practicing law, until they are quite elderly.  I don’t get it it.  Not many senior females do that.  I’m not sure why.  I have no issue with age, but I do if the person is really struggling to function.  I guess some people don’t want to retire.  

Edited April 25, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[bros402]

So with this episode, one thing I did not get is why they were proposing a SCT in a child with osteosarcoma (he had osteo, right?) - they already established that he would've had 9 months to live if the initial surgery went well, but a SCT would confine him to a hospital for 3 months (probably including consolidation) which would totally ruin his quality of life - since he wouldn't even get to a "normal" immune system until 12 months out - and there is no point to that with any of those prospects.

Also, I am pretty sure to takes platelet stimulating drugs a week to work - but I am unsure (I know drugs like Aresnep, for red cell production/raising hemoglobin, can take 4-6 weeks because it takes a while for those baby stem cells to become grown up red cells.

With Glassman... yeah, Shaun should've at least told him his suspicions and go to Lim if he didn't believe him. You think the hospital would have a procedure in place along with a legal department for what to do if a doctor is suspected of being medically compromised - and I imagine that in this universe, they could fast track a neuropsych eval + whatever other evals would be needed (OT, I am guessing) to get a quick look into Glassman's functioning.

Next week is the season finale, what do we think is gonna happen?

My guesses:
1. Park & Resnick back together (or strongly hinted at)
2. Asher and his guy break up
3. Baby comes out fine, but Glassman doesn't come - the cliffhanger will be that Glassman is in his apartment/in his car in the parking lot/somewhere alone having a more severe stroke
4. Something open ended with Andrews where he could stay or leave (maybe for leave... or because of his potentially interfering with a unionization effort, perhaps?)

Edited April 25, 2023 by bros402

[PurpleTentacle]

Glassman is such a whiny bitch. He probably would have killed a patient if Shaun hadn't spoken up. What else was he supposed to do? Glassman should be thanking Shaun on his knees, that he prevented that from happening.

If he didn't want to be humiliated in the OR, he could have done the cognitive assesment, which would have been in private. But noooo, he just had to bully himself into surgery. I lost all respect I had for that character (granted it wasn't that much to begin with).

[SunnyBeBe]

My grief with the show is how they can’t allow any stable happy relationships.  It’s frustrating.  It causes me to not be invested in the characters as much.  I’m not sure what it is, but I no longer like Park. I’ve never liked Resnick.  Didn’t like the original Lea character. I like the new Lea a little, even though she seems fake. Am ambivalent  about the rest, though I like Shaun.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[possibilities]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

This episode has suddenly made me wonder what would Shaun's versions of "dad jokes" end up being!

 

I hope they show us.

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Jerome as Santa Claus apparently just woke something up in Asher!

 

I realize Santa isn't exactly the most serious religious symbol, but I think it's notable (after the couple's conflict last week) that a religion-based icon is what got to him.  I know Christians often regard Santa as a neutral symbol, but speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that nobody in my community ever saw him as anything but a Christian one. The dude is a Christmas symbol.

9 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I liked the baby's reaction when she asked the Alexa to start playing music :p. Kid was like, "...what the heck?" 

What I liked the most was that when Morgan did something that made HER happy and relaxed, the baby responded well to it. It kind of symbolically showed they are actually bonded. Morgan being Morgan made the baby relax. And Morgan did that for herself, not the baby, so Morgan's selfishness actually served the situation, which is kind of the opposite of what her selfish tendencies might have been expected to do.

7 hours ago, bros402 said:

With Glassman... yeah, Shaun should've at least told him his suspicions and go to Lim if he didn't believe him. You think the hospital would have a procedure in place along with a legal department for what to do if a doctor is suspected of being medically compromised - and I imagine that in this universe, they could fast track a neuropsych eval + whatever other evals would be needed (OT, I am guessing) to get a quick look into Glassman's functioning.

Seriously! Glassman's refusal to allow himself to be evaluated, and Andrews supporting that attitude, is terrible. Can you imagine the lawsuit if something went wrong in surgery and the patient's family found out about this? WILLFUL and explicit PLANNED negligence explicitly for ego and cash motivation is worse than other errors and would put the entire hospital in jeopardy. If I was Lim, I would be reporting Andrews and Glassman to the Board, not merely supervising the surgery quietly.

And Shaun was right to talk to Lim, but he was also wrong to go behind Glassman's back and not even tell him what was happening, even if Glassman was going to be upset about it. He clearly was trying to protect both Glassman and the patients, but he didn't handle it well from a relationship perspective. 

And why was Shaun the one to catch the hesitation and demand accountability in surgery, and not Lim -- who was in the room supposedly supervising? I generally like Lim, but she ha also been approaching this issue with Andrews from an ego perspective rather than as an issue of overall hospital operations. The nurse is more sensible than any of these people. Maybe she should run the hospital.

I'm shocked that the nurses aren't already in a union. I think all the hospitals around here have nurses who are unionized. 

[Jim Marlowe]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

And why was Shaun the one to catch the hesitation and demand accountability in surgery, and not Lim -- who was in the room supposedly supervising?

I don't think it matters.

Glassman was completely iced, the surgical nurse tried to give him the surgery tool but he absolutely didn't know what to do with it. 

[PurpleTentacle]

1 minute ago, possibilities said:

I realize Santa isn't exactly the most serious religious symbol, but I think it's notable (after the couple's conflict last week) that a religion-based icon is what got to him.  I know Christians often regard Santa as a neutral symbol, but speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that nobody in my community ever saw him as anything but a Christian one. The dude is a Christmas symbol.

I'm as non-religious as they come and think Santa is hot. So I'm with Asher here.

Also I really don't think he's a religious symbol, unless the Coca Cola company is your god.

10 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm shocked that the nurses aren't already in a union. I think all the hospitals around here have nurses who are unionized. 

And why is Andrews so afraid of them unionising? Is that an american thing I'm too european to understand?

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I realize Santa isn't exactly the most serious religious symbol, but I think it's notable (after the couple's conflict last week) that a religion-based icon is what got to him.  I know Christians often regard Santa as a neutral symbol, but speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that nobody in my community ever saw him as anything but a Christian one. The dude is a Christmas symbol.

If you think about it, he is a capitalist symbol, brought to you by Coco Cola Co. It is seen as a christian symbol because capitalism and christianity are joined by hip. And because of a long story but basically, capitalism hijacked traditions and created a reason for people to consume not only without guilty, but with a sense of obligation and reverence to an elusive, supernatural entity that endorses that.

 

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Seriously! Glassman's refusal to allow himself to be evaluated, and Andrews supporting that attitude, is terrible. Can you imagine the lawsuit if something went wrong in surgery and the patient's family found out about this?

I haven't watched it yet but yes, it is irresponsible. On the other hand, medical malpractice/error is already the third leading cause of death in the US, and lawsuits are dismissed, ignored, and settlements just make health care is this effing country even worse than it already is

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I'm shocked that the nurses aren't already in a union. I think all the hospitals around here have nurses who are unionized. 

I'm not. In Florida, I have met many nurses that are against unions. Not sure how the laws on each state works regarding unions

 

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

And why is Andrews so afraid of them unionising? Is that an american thing I'm too european to understand?

Because Unions force corporations to give workers a few rights. I am American and I don't understand the mentality of workers here either. It would make an huge volume of an Anthropology study, how the American people is so propagandized while poorly educated, how they believe in the impossible task of "pulling yourself by the bootstraps" - not only an impossibility but also, you need boots to have bootstraps. People here lack flip flops. The working class here believe corporations and billionaires worked hard for what they have, they don't believe in their share on the productivity. Some people are waking up but it is still a tiny movement. Some of the few big unions are full of leadership that are in cahoots with the corporatists. 

 

[Daff]

4 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Also I really don't think he's a religious symbol, unless the Coca Cola company is your god.

Modern “Santa Claus” is a commercialized version of the original, Saint Nicholas, patron saint of children.

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, Daff said:

Modern “Santa Claus” is a commercialized version of the original, Saint Nicholas, patron saint of children.

It is more than just a version. It is a blatant appropriation of some old religious that might or might not be true due to the lack of written record of his time tradition to push for something that is used to celebrate something that historically never happened (even if you believe in the tales, Jesus wouldn't be born in December -  when people are supposed to buy stuff for other people. If anything, to be loyal to the spirit, people should give things away, not receive gifts. St Nick has a different story, different clothes, different day, different everything. The only think that is similar are that they are both depicted as old man and they bear gifts to some - also for different reasons (and it is all legend anyway)

Also, I believe St Nick was a bishop, therefore he would not be wearing red, but blue-ish, purple-ish garments 

[The Wild Sow]

Asher having the hots for Santa is both hilarious and delightfully pervy! 

[possibilities]

Capitalist appropriation or not, he's associated with Christmas, and that's a religious holiday-- again, whether or not people are celebrating Jesus or presents. Non-Christians do not celebrate it, period. Unless they are openly renouncing their own cultures in favor of the capitalism aspect, Santa is just not a neutral icon. And for Asher to be on a major anti-religion tear, and then be attracted to Santa, I found amusing.

[CarpeFelis]

19 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Jerome as Santa Claus apparently just woke something up in Asher!

Shaun ends up being right that Glassman is compromised, but of course, Glassy is still upset with him for the way he approaches things.  Which... admittedly, still had a lot of Shaun's normal theatrics, but considering how much Glassman was initially pushing back against him, I kind of feel like he didn't have much choice.  Like, I really doubt if he talked to him (again) before Lim, it would made things even better.  I know a lot is going on with him right now, but I feel like Glassman is just being kind of a jerk right now.

I couldn’t help thinking Asher was channeling Lauren Graham in Bad Santa!

Glassman may be being a jerk right now, but Shaun had it coming. Shaun was being a huge jerk. He was condescending, overinvolved, and pushy, and he did humiliate Glassman in Glassman’s OR in front of his colleagues. Lim was right there and certainly would have caught Glassman’s hesitation. Way better if it came from her rather than Shaun, who spent much of this episode and a few recent ones acting like a damn stalker or a vulture waiting to nitpick Glassman to death.

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

And Shaun was right to talk to Lim, but he was also wrong to go behind Glassman's back and not even tell him what was happening, even if Glassman was going to be upset about it. He clearly was trying to protect both Glassman and the patients, but he didn't handle it well from a relationship perspective. 

And why was Shaun the one to catch the hesitation and demand accountability in surgery, and not Lim -- who was in the room supposedly supervising? I generally like Lim, but she ha also been approaching this issue with Andrews from an ego perspective rather than as an issue of overall hospital operations. The nurse is more sensible than any of these people. Maybe she should run the hospital.

THIS. Shaun wasn’t wrong, as it turned out (though he could have been). But went about it the wrong way.

And I still wonder… why is every surgeon in this hospital involved in brain surgery at one time or another?! The only one who’s been identified by the show as an actual neurosurgeon is Glassman. Aren’t there any others besides him?

As for Villanueva: I agree she seems to be more sensible than most of these doctors. But I fear the other nurses are going to turn on her when they find out she’s dating Andrews.

8 hours ago, circumvent said:

Because Unions force corporations to give workers a few rights. I am American and I don't understand the mentality of workers here either. It would make an huge volume of an Anthropology study, how the American people is so propagandized while poorly educated, how they believe in the impossible task of "pulling yourself by the bootstraps" - not only an impossibility but also, you need boots to have bootstraps. People here lack flip flops. The working class here believe corporations and billionaires worked hard for what they have, they don't believe in their share on the productivity. Some people are waking up but it is still a tiny movement. Some of the few big unions are full of leadership that are in cahoots with the corporatists. 

I’m retired now, but one thing about my career I’m thankful for is that unlike most engineers, we had a white collar union (SPEEA). My retirement is way better funded than it would have been without a union contract protecting it. Too many people seem to forget that without unions we wouldn’t even have such a thing as weekends off. I don’t know where they get the idea that billionaires have worked so hard for what they have. When I started working in 1980, CEOs were making roughly 30 times their average worker’s salary. Today? About 400 TIMES their average worker’s salary. Has what they do really increased in value that much? No, it’s pure corporate greed.

[PurpleTentacle]

10 hours ago, Daff said:

Modern “Santa Claus” is a commercialized version of the original, Saint Nicholas, patron saint of children.

Who has his day on the sixth of December, not on the 24th or 25th, was traditionally depicted in anything but red clothing, didn't bring outlandish presents, had an assistent who fucked you up if you were bad, etc. I'm german. I know who Saint Nikolaus is. We still celebrate December the 6th. He just doesn't have much to do with the guy invented by Coca Cola, running around in their brands colour scheme.

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Capitalist appropriation or not, he's associated with Christmas, and that's a religious holiday

So everything that is associated by some with something is now automatically part of that thing. That's not looking good for americans, considering what the rest of the world associates them with...

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Non-Christians do not celebrate it, period. Unless they are openly renouncing their own cultures in favor of the capitalism aspect, Santa is just not a neutral icon.

Non-Christian here. I celebrate christmas and not for the capitalism, but to spend some time with family. Also I don't think I renounced any of my culture. What are you on about?

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

Santa is just not a neutral icon. And for Asher to be on a major anti-religion tear, and then be attracted to Santa, I found amusing.

Again, Santa is at best a capitalist icon. Calling him a religious icon is blasphemy and I assume Asher's very religious family would tell you as much.

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Glassman may be being a jerk right now, but Shaun had it coming. Shaun was being a huge jerk. He was condescending, overinvolved, and pushy, and he did humiliate Glassman in Glassman’s OR in front of his colleagues. Lim was right there and certainly would have caught Glassman’s hesitation. Way better if it came from her rather than Shaun, who spent much of this episode and a few recent ones acting like a damn stalker or a vulture waiting to nitpick Glassman to death.

Except it was Glassman's own fault that he was in the OR in the first place, putting patients lives in danger. I have exactly 0 pity for him and don't think Shaun did anything wrong in that situation.

4 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

THIS. Shaun wasn’t wrong, as it turned out (though he could have been). But went about it the wrong way.

What would have been the right way? Go to Glassman, get blown off, get a few patients killed while he's trying to convince him?

Edited April 26, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[bros402]

15 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

And why is Andrews so afraid of them unionising? Is that an american thing I'm too european to understand?

In the US, only something like 12% of employees are part of a union (with the numbers dropping every year) - employees see them as bad due to employers telling them they are bad (and in retail jobs, showing them videos telling them that unions are bad because they "take money out of your check"). Unions are also heavily politicized and seen as damaging to employers, outside of one specific profession that has employees that wear blue.

[CarpeFelis]

4 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Except it was Glassman's own fault that he was in the OR in the first place, putting patients lives in danger. I have exactly 0 pity for him and don't think Shaun did anything wrong in that situation.

What would have been the right way? Go to Glassman, get blown off, get a few patients killed while he's trying to convince him?

The right way would have been to speak to Glassman and after Glassman blew him off, have a talk with both Glassman and Lim together and let Lim handle it in private. (Yes, I agree with you that he shouldn’t have been in that OR. But Lim could have prevented that.) Following Glassman around waiting to pounce on any small mistake, going to Lim behind his back, and then humiliating him in the OR was allowing him no dignity. If you were a highly experienced surgeon losing your edge, would you want to be treated the way Shaun treated Glassman?

[PurpleTentacle]

21 minutes ago, CarpeFelis said:

The right way would have been to speak to Glassman and after Glassman blew him off, have a talk with both Glassman and Lim together and let Lim handle it in private. (Yes, I agree with you that he shouldn’t have been in that OR. But Lim could have prevented that.) Following Glassman around waiting to pounce on any small mistake, going to Lim behind his back, and then humiliating him in the OR was allowing him no dignity. If you were a highly experienced surgeon losing your edge, would you want to be treated the way Shaun treated Glassman?

In a vacuum, sure. But Shaun had tried to come to Glassman directly like 5 times before, as was pointed out this episode, and every time Glassman established a pattern of sticking his head in the sand, covering his ears and going "lalalalala". At some point enough is enough. Also Glassman showed that Shaun's assesment was right, with how combative he was with Lim and how he even threatened legal action, just to not have to go through a cognitive assessment.

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

I don’t know where they get the idea that billionaires have worked so hard for what they have.

It is all in their heads and egos. Did you see the Starbucks billionaire all tears and outrage in Congress during his testimony after Bernie Sanders said that he is a billionaire and that was there only under the threat of a subpoena? They think that the subsidies they got from mom and pop, from the government or from friends to build the criminal corporations they run was "hard work"

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

Capitalist appropriation or not, he's associated with Christmas, and that's a religious holiday-- again, whether or not people are celebrating Jesus or presents. Non-Christians do not celebrate it, period. Unless they are openly renouncing their own cultures in favor of the capitalism aspect, Santa is just not a neutral icon. And for Asher to be on a major anti-religion tear, and then be attracted to Santa, I found amusing.

Not all christians celebrate Santa though. Jehovah Witnesses, for example (I am not 100% sure). I know christian people, including a pastor's family whose children never "waited" for Santa. To them, "Baby Jesus" brought them gifts - which was even worse imo, considering what their bible says about Jesus being poor and all

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So everything that is associated by some with something is now automatically part of that thing. That's not looking good for americans, considering what the rest of the world associates them with...

You are killing me with laughter now 😂 So much truth, also depressing to realize what shit we all are in

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

In the US, only something like 12% of employees are part of a union (with the numbers dropping every year) - employees see them as bad due to employers telling them they are bad (and in retail jobs, showing them videos telling them that unions are bad because they "take money out of your check"). Unions are also heavily politicized and seen as damaging to employers, outside of one specific profession that has employees that wear blue.

Yes, and like I heard the other day "the American Dream - you have to be sleeping to believe it" - Podcast talking about the "bootstraps" and shit like that. Unions were also part of the coalitions with socialists and - blasphemy! - communists to force FDR to fight for the New Deal. Everyone who wants to know the real history of this country should read Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States. Prime and AppleTV have a documentary with parts of it - The People Speak. Instead, workers keep believing that working hard and making profit that are not distributed to them is the path for them t become millionaires too.

I do see how Shaun was a little tough on Glassman but he was right. Were there "better" ways to do what he did? Depends. If the writers hadn't pulled the ridiculous stunt they did:

Glassman saying that either he operates or he would force Lim to fire him and them sue her. Bullshit

The patient demanding Glassman was also bullshit. Tell the patient: you need surgery RIGHT NOW (don't they love this line?) and that Glassman has other surgeries already scheduled

Lim was in the OR but she didn't catch what Shaun did. She only forced Glassman to answer the question because Shaun pointed out the hesitation. 

The way the writers did was absurd but the one thing they got right was a doctor calling out another doctor in a very dangerous situation for the patient. Imagine how many times this DOES NOT happen in real ORs. The culture of idolization of a perceived and imagined superiority that doctors have over patients is dangerous. They protect their own, just like cops protect their own. Nobody protects the patients.

It is also in character for Shaun to do what he did. He sees the problem, he highlights the problem, he solves the problem (or tries to). He is brash and doesn't measure his words to make others feel cuddled. For patients and colleagues, it is not easy but it is also part of accepting neurodiversity. Let others cuddle us and comfort us. It is also important. Of course, the writing is inconsistent and weak but I liked how they wrote Shaun in tis episode

Glassman is the one who needs to come around, let his ego ball deflate a bit and apologize

 

 

[Jim Marlowe]

45 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

In a vacuum, sure. But Shaun had tried to come to Glassman directly like 5 times before, as was pointed out this episode, and every time Glassman established a pattern of sticking his head in the sand, covering his ears and going "lalalalala". At some point enough is enough. Also Glassman showed that Shaun's assesment was right, with how combative he was with Lim and how he even threatened legal action, just to not have to go through a cognitive assessment.

During the short meeting he had with Lim, he did the same thing he did so many times recently to Shaun: she presented him facts and observations collected, then because he couldn't deny the facts anymore, he proposed a bullshit compromise, rejected as planned, and suddendly he became aggresive.  

Normally, the simple action to refuse to go through a cognitive assesment should be a red flag that something is really wrong.

18 minutes ago, circumvent said:

 

I do see how Shaun was a little tough on Glassman but he was right. Were there "better" ways to do what he did? Depends. If the writers hadn't pulled the ridiculous stunt they did:

Glassman saying that either he operates or he would force Lim to fire him and them sue her. Bullshit

The patient demanding Glassman was also bullshit. Tell the patient: you need surgery RIGHT NOW (don't they love this line?) and that Glassman has other surgeries already scheduled

Lim was in the OR but she didn't catch what Shaun did. She only forced Glassman to answer the question because Shaun pointed out the hesitation. 

The way the writers did was absurd but the one thing they got right was a doctor calling out another doctor in a very dangerous situation for the patient. Imagine how many times this DOES NOT happen in real ORs. The culture of idolization of a perceived and imagined superiority that doctors have over patients is dangerous. They protect their own, just like cops protect their own. Nobody protects the patients.

It is also in character for Shaun to do what he did. He sees the problem, he highlights the problem, he solves the problem (or tries to). He is brash and doesn't measure his words to make others feel cuddled. For patients and colleagues, it is not easy but it is also part of accepting neurodiversity. Let others cuddle us and comfort us. It is also important. Of course, the writing is inconsistent and weak but I liked how they wrote Shaun in tis episode

Glassman is the one who needs to come around, let his ego ball deflate a bit and apologize

 

 

it's not hesitation.

Hesitation would have mean that he at term knew/would have known what to do next.

But here, he was totally unable to say (to Lim) what he had to do next in the surgical plan.

So it's not hesitation.

[circumvent]

4 minutes ago, Jim Marlowe said:

it's not hesitation.

Hesitation would have mean that he at term knew/would have known what to do next.

But here, he was totally unable to say (to Lim) what he had to do next in the surgical plan.

So it's not hesitation.

In hindsight, yes. But what Shaun saw, initially, was hesitation, that split second. Lim didn't pick this up. That's why he stopped the whole thing.

Edited April 26, 2023 by circumvent

[Jim Marlowe]

54 minutes ago, circumvent said:

In hindsight, yes. But what Shaun saw, initially, was hesitation, that split second. Lim didn't pick this up. That's why he stopped the whole thing.

The nurse saw it too, reason why she intervened. But eventhough he was about to take the tools, he still didn't know what to do with them.

And Lim was also looking at him, not at the surgical site.

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, Jim Marlowe said:

The nurse saw it too, reason why she intervened. But eventhough he was about to take the tools, he still didn't know what to do with them.

And Lim was also looking at him, not at the surgical site.

I am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that the first impression was of hesitation. There is not way of knowing what was in his head, so Shaun - correctly, imo - intervened. The nurse intervened because she also saw hesitation and assumed Glassman knew what to do next. Key word is ASSUMED. Shaun had a hint of Glassman not knowing, the nurse thought he just, maybe, "forgot" the name of the instrument needed.

That's my perception, at lease. Yours might be different. Just nuances that, in this case, don't really change the general agreement

Edit to put in a - hopefully - better way: You are seeing things from the perspective of Glassman. So yes, it wasn't merely hesitation. I am seeing things from the perspective of others. What they saw was hesitation because they couldn't be inside Glassman's head

Edited April 26, 2023 by circumvent

[possibilities]

I think Glassman was clearly wrong to be dismissing Shaun's concerns, putting he ego above the patient, refusing the cognitive assessment, and being defensive. 

In the context of their relationship, I think Shaun was wrong to go to Lim without giving Glassman a heads up that it was happening, even if he knew Glassman was not going to like it. 

I like that the story involves both of their character flaws being in play and leading to the conflict between them-- on a professional level, Shaun is more right, but on the relationship level, they are both wrong. 

Early in the series, Glassman was trying to force Shaun to get therapy and Shaun refused and Glassman tried to leverage his position to force it, so it's also kind of funny to me because Glassman has modeled this behavior to Shaun before-- the show probably wants to say that Shaun is inept at the subtleties of managing their relationship because of his autism, but it's just as likely it's because his primary role model is exactly like this and uses the same approach that he's now objecting to having used on him.

[KaveDweller]

23 hours ago, possibilities said:

Capitalist appropriation or not, he's associated with Christmas, and that's a religious holiday-- again, whether or not people are celebrating Jesus or presents. Non-Christians do not celebrate it, period. Unless they are openly renouncing their own cultures in favor of the capitalism aspect, Santa is just not a neutral icon. And for Asher to be on a major anti-religion tear, and then be attracted to Santa, I found amusing.

I am not Christian and I celebrate Christmas. And I am not renouncing anything. I do consider Santa neutral, because when I decorate I avoid anything that seems religious (like a nativity) and deliberately focus on things like Santa Claus or snowmen.

12 hours ago, Jim Marlowe said:

Normally, the simple action to refuse to go through a cognitive assesment should be a red flag that something is really wrong.

Yes, you'd think if he was so confident nothing was wrong, he would have taken the assessment and proven things were fine.

I do think it Shaun hadn't jumped in, Lim would have intervened. Probably in a more subtle way, like asking if she could do the next step. She was watching him and it would have been even more obvious Glassman didn't know what to do in the next few seconds.

Personally I hope this is very fictionalized and there isn't a chance actual surgeons shown to be losing their memory could be handed an OR just because they threatened to sue.

[dshgr]

Most of the icons of the Christian Christmas are appropriations of the pagan celebration of the winter solstice, or Yule.  Add to that the modern day Coca Cola Santa and you have the Christian Christmas.  Complete fantasy.

[Driad]

Khachapuri  is a traditional Georgian dish of cheese-filled bread.  It sounds delicious.

[possibilities]

I'm genuinely surprised that people don't think Asher being turned on by Santa is funny-- ironic, to be specific. Maybe you have to be Jewish to get the joke.

I'm also surprised to hear that people who aren't either believing Christians or from a Christian cultural background celebrate Christmas or use Santa in any way in their lives. I have never encountered that in my life. I've met atheists who celebrate, but none who come from another cultural community or religious family of origin. I have heard of people who renounce their original family or cultural background and CONVERT. But never any who come from some other background and are drawn to Santa. I can't tell if "it's neutral!" is because this really happens, or if it's just that people who are steeped in it don't really get that it isn't universal nd haven't run into people who don't share it. 

Either way, all humor is apparently local, and all responses to Santa still seem cultural to me, but I'm obviously in the minority in this regard, at least among people who post here. I will take my surprise and put it in my pocket for reference when December comes around.

[Annber03]

38 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I'm genuinely surprised that people don't think Asher being turned on by Santa is funny-- ironic, to be specific. Maybe you have to be Jewish to get the joke.

I'm not Jewish and I thought it was funny. Course, I'm also not religious in general, so...

[bros402]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm genuinely surprised that people don't think Asher being turned on by Santa is funny-- ironic, to be specific. Maybe you have to be Jewish to get the joke.

I'm not Jewish or religious, but I found it smileworthy

[Fable]

I really loved this episode.  It was so messy.  I mean Reznik with her bedhead trying to deal with a baby while being completely clueless, as well as Shaun and Glassman at odds even though they clearly care for each other.

I know not everyone wants this, but I am hoping Park and Reznik pull it together and become a tight family.

[circumvent]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

I'm genuinely surprised that people don't think Asher being turned on by Santa is funny-- ironic, to be specific.

If I think about it, maybe it is ironic for a Jewish person. I am an atheist but it is not the reason I didn't think it was funny. I just don't get the "being turned on" by garment. That's definitely not what turns me on, more so if I know the person and their personality. I guess that dressing up, wearing some sort of costume to make sex more interesting is a thing that is less wide spread than TV wants  us to believe. But maybe I am just weird.

[aemom]

On 4/25/2023 at 6:54 PM, possibilities said:

Capitalist appropriation or not, he's associated with Christmas, and that's a religious holiday-- again, whether or not people are celebrating Jesus or presents. Non-Christians do not celebrate it, period. Unless they are openly renouncing their own cultures in favor of the capitalism aspect, Santa is just not a neutral icon. And for Asher to be on a major anti-religion tear, and then be attracted to Santa, I found amusing.

I respectfully disagree with this.  I live in a very multi-cultural city and I know many people who are not Christians who celebrate Christmas - and other holidays - simply because they enjoy the aspects of the holiday.

We had Jewish friends who celebrated all of their holidays, but would also join us to celebrate Christmas - and we would exchange gifts with them.

I really don't think that you have to renounce your culture and/or your history to celebrate a holiday.

[tennisgurl]

Its baby time! Just in time for Shaun and Glassman to be in a fight, of course. I can get why Glassman is upset that Shaun went to Lim and then corrected him, but Shaun didn't exactly have a lot of options. He tried to talk to Glassman, he did research, he realized that this could be a real problem, and Shaun knows how stubborn Glassman is. It sucks that Glassman cant do surgery anymore, but he's had a very long career, its better to end now instead of after he accidently kills someone due to his medical issues. He would feel terrible, not to mention the hit to his reputation and possible lawsuits, it seems like this was the best Shaun could do and hopefully Glassman will see that when he cools down. 

The cases were both interesting, if not exactly shocking. The one with the dying child was going to be sad no matter what, if the kid lived for a month or a year, but it at least had a bittersweet sort of ending instead of a total downer. I could understand both the mom and the dad's points of view, its just a sad awful situation. I have seen some others stories like the one with the dad with a tumor, where a medical problem is changing someone's lives for the better, luckily it looks like the dad is heading in the right direction. Both cases tied a bit into the Shaun and Glassman story, two people with very different but understandable reactions to an illness, and medical changes of a parent and how it affects their adult child. 

Andrews really stepped in it again with the nurses, but at least his winter wonderland helped smooth things over with Villanueva for now. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 4/26/2023 at 4:57 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

In a vacuum, sure. But Shaun had tried to come to Glassman directly like 5 times before, as was pointed out this episode, and every time Glassman established a pattern of sticking his head in the sand, covering his ears and going "lalalalala". At some point enough is enough. Also Glassman showed that Shaun's assesment was right, with how combative he was with Lim and how he even threatened legal action, just to not have to go through a cognitive assessment.

Exactly.  

[KaveDweller]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:30 PM, possibilities said:

I'm genuinely surprised that people don't think Asher being turned on by Santa is funny-- ironic, to be specific. Maybe you have to be Jewish to get the joke.

I'll be honest....I thought it was kind of gross. Santa is the least sexual thing I can think of. 

[circumvent]

8 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I'll be honest....I thought it was kind of gross. Santa is the least sexual thing I can think of. 

Now that you mentioned, I remember watching something in some show about creepy Santas using the disguise to touch kids or something awful like that. I think it is kind of a trope on some shows to have a creepy Santa so yes, it is kind of gross. I don't think it is asexual necessarily, but gross because imagine a sexual Santa being sexual with little kids UGH!

[Starchild]

On 4/25/2023 at 12:58 AM, bros402 said:

Next week is the season finale, what do we think is gonna happen?

My guesses:
1. .
2. Asher and his guy break up
3. .
4. .

Why do you think that? They ended this episode in a good place.

 

On 4/25/2023 at 8:22 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I’m not sure what it is, but I no longer like Park.

It might be that mid-season stretch where he alternated between whiny little bitch and creepy stalker.

 

On 4/25/2023 at 8:58 AM, possibilities said:

I'm shocked that the nurses aren't already in a union. I think all the hospitals around here have nurses who are unionized. 

My mom was a nurse, and her hospital always made sure they paid just a little better than the other hospitals' unions. Seemed to work to keep them content.

 

On 4/25/2023 at 9:11 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

Also I really don't think he's a religious symbol, unless the Coca Cola company is your god.

It is for some, for sure.

 

On 4/26/2023 at 5:24 AM, circumvent said:

Yes, and like I heard the other day "the American Dream - you have to be sleeping to believe it"

George Carlin -- classic.

 

On 4/26/2023 at 10:16 AM, circumvent said:

I am not disagreeing with you. I am just saying that the first impression was of hesitation. There is not way of knowing what was in his head, so Shaun - correctly, imo - intervened. The nurse intervened because she also saw hesitation and assumed Glassman knew what to do next. Key word is ASSUMED. Shaun had a hint of Glassman not knowing, the nurse thought he just, maybe, "forgot" the name of the instrument needed.

That's my perception, at lease. Yours might be different. Just nuances that, in this case, don't really change the general agreement

Edit to put in a - hopefully - better way: You are seeing things from the perspective of Glassman. So yes, it wasn't merely hesitation. I am seeing things from the perspective of others. What they saw was hesitation because they couldn't be inside Glassman's head

Indeed. Shaun "hesitates" every time he goes into his mind palace.

So, Andrews and Villanueva have no chance as a couple if they don't agree to keep their work and personal lives separate. This is already a very complicated relationship, and it could go very bad very quickly.

[bros402]

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Why do you think that? They ended this episode in a good place.

I don't know, something has been feeling off with them all season. Could just be the writing this season, though.

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess the show just wanted to show the stress of a new single mom.  Still…..come on. She’s a professional woman. She does know some things, right? Isn’t it obvious that she would need help with child care so she can sleep? What’s the time lapse since the baby was born? A good friend of mine was practicing law when she had her son as a single parent. She arranged for help, realizing her rest was crucial to her providing her child the best she could.  She had her mom, a dula, and a nanny involved, so she could get her rest and provide her baby the best care.  

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess the show just wanted to show the stress of a new single mom.  Still…..come on. She’s a professional woman. She does know some things, right? Isn’t it obvious that she would need help with child care so she can sleep? What’s the time lapse since the baby was born? A good friend of mine was practicing law when she had her son as a single parent. She arranged for help, realizing her rest was crucial to her providing her child the best she could.  She had her mom, a dula, and a nanny involved, so she could get her rest and provide her baby the best care.  

TV trope. Every new mom, single mom on TV must be shown as a bit incompetent because it is so hard to take care of children, every cry, every colic, every poop has to be elevated to 1000 in the drama scale. It is a parody, almost. Babies can be hard, people get tired, but it is not like they forget diapers, or cannot - ever - console a child, They need to have the rocker on a washer, and they fall asleep on the floor in seconds. Bullshit. And she is a doctor, supposedly she had many hours of residency, no breaks, then go home for some rest, just to start all over again. It is a different tiredness but in neither case they would simply fall asleep on the floor.

[Jim Marlowe]

 

21 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess the show just wanted to show the stress of a new single mom.  Still…..come on. She’s a professional woman. She does know some things, right? Isn’t it obvious that she would need help with child care so she can sleep? What’s the time lapse since the baby was born? A good friend of mine was practicing law when she had her son as a single parent. She arranged for help, realizing her rest was crucial to her providing her child the best she could.  She had her mom, a dula, and a nanny involved, so she could get her rest and provide her baby the best care.  

 

But that's her story this season. She refuses help, especially from Park, many times this season. In this episode, she tried to do everything by herself and was very quickly humbled by the situation.

 

And I would add something:

Just look what happened in few of the most recent episodes for her:

- Park proposed to support her, about the IVF

- Park proposed to help her finding a sperm donor

- Park advised to help and drive her for the IVF appointments, she finally chose Glassman

- Lim and Jordan helped her with the injections

- now Park is helping her with Eden

It shows that every step of the way, there's people here and present to help her, that she finally got a support system and it's no more Morgan Reznik agaisnt the world. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Jim Marlowe

[Virtual]

I hope that Glassman being mad at Shaun won’t end up being part of the season cliffhanger, but I suspect that it will. I understand his reaction to possibly having his job stripped away, but Shaun did the right thing telling Lim.

I thought the Morgan scenes with Eden were meant to show the realities of raising a baby. 

[circumvent]

10 hours ago, Virtual said:

I thought the Morgan scenes with Eden were meant to show the realities of raising a baby. 

Yes, but they dialed it up to 1000. I know of exact zero mothers who fall asleep on the floor as soon as the baby shuts up - on top of a washer