S04.E11: Double Trouble

[jewel21]

Quote

The 126 race to rescue a woman with an arrow shot into her head; Judd is doubly surprised by the news Wyatt shares; Mateo helps a family member in need and comes to regret it.

Airdate: 04/04/2023

[Kleav]

Well, that was painful.

[anna0852]

I saw the 'Wyatt got his girlfriend' pregnant' storyline coming from a mile away.

Did *not* see the Marvin thing though. That took a much darker turn than I expected.

[Msample]

What, they don’t have bail bonds ( 10% down ) so Matteo needed the whole $25K? Come on writers, try harder.

[Lady Calypso]

Well, we had a couple of good episodes, but now we're back to terrible, boring episodes.

I did not like the Mateo/Marvin plot. First off, they really didn't need to acknowledge the Marvin thing at all. Really, it wasn't necessary. Also, the actor isn't very good when he plays Mateo, so we didn't need him playing two characters. Also, the "sitcom dream" was goddamn stupid. None of the lines were funny, and they just threw in a constant laugh track, which got annoying, so I actually just fast forwarded through it until it was over. I got the gist of it afterward.

I thought I liked Nancy/Mateo last season, but this episode was a big yikes for them. It showcases how poorly the two fit together, and the "babe" stuff was really awkward. 

The Wyatt getting his new girlfriend plot is also stupid. I didn't like how it went at all. I'm not on board with Wyatt becoming a firefighter, because not everyone needs to be. But also, it reminded me of why I got a bit annoyed at Judd last season. I really don't like the message that Wyatt HAS to be masculine like Judd. I did not like the whole "toughen him up" bit. I think Judd's right in that this may not be the right path for Wyatt (he really wouldn't be a good firefighter) but I wish the message ended with Judd asking Wyatt if this was what he really wanted to do, or what he felt he had to do. 

I just think Wyatt isn't suited to be a firefighter, and that's ok! So I'm annoyed they ended it with Grace telling Judd to toughen Wyatt up, and Wyatt going to be disrespectful to the fire chief and barging into his office. 

Yeah, a poor episode once more. Maybe not as bad as half the undercover FBI episodes, but still not great.

[bilgistic]

9 hours ago, LtKelley said:

I read somewhere on the internets recently that the majority of laugh tracks currently used were recorded in the 1950s which means we're hearing the laughter of the dead. 

Which kinda works for this episode. ;)

The identical cousins thing - I am 50ish and I only get the reference because a parent really liked the show back in the day but are a lot of people going to get the reference? It was silly and kind of dumb but I was amused. At the same time, good god Mateo is boring and the actor is not very good and realistically if Mateo went to the police station and confessed to a ten year old crime that occured when he was 13, what would happen really?

The Wyatt nonsense: This show doesn't need a Wyatt plot. For all Judd's moaning about the kid being a weak crybaby bitch - and wow what a great dad Judd was telling his son just how soft he found the kid - but really what terrible thing happened here? Wyatt met a nice girl and knocked her up. He's an adult. Where is Wyatt's mom in all this? And really was there any doubt that Wyatt wouldnt somehow get into the firefighter class? Are we taking bets on who rescues Judd from some massive fire incident in the season finale? Because, for a change, I bet it won't be Owen....

I laughed so much at "laughter of the dead." Every time I watch an older movie or show with a pet in it, I think about how it's dead now. :(

I got the identical cousins reference because I am 48, and I think I watched the show in syndication after school. So yeah, I don't expect most people to know what that goofy shit was about. And in that dream, Owen was married to Tommy? OK, I guess.

Judd stomping around like his feelings were hurt was just stupid. He's so immature that he doesn't respond to his kid's texts, but he's going to "support" him and his girlfriend's baby? Sure.

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

I actually felt that Judd was right about why Wyatt would be a terrible firefighter and it wasn't just about toxic masculinity bullcrap even if that's how it came across. Ironically, we subconsciously associate Judd's use of "soft" with the implication that he's calling his own son a w*ss when what it read to me is that Wyatt is too sensitive of a kid to get into that specific field and doesn't have the grit for it and THAT COULD GET HIM AND OTHER PEOPLE KILLED. Judd lost his entire squad of the best firefighters prepared for this job to a fire and still has PTSD from that. Wyatt getting into it for the wrong reasons and being ill prepared and not have the specific gumption for it could be his death sentence. Wyatt would be a great dispatcher or paramedic. It really does feel more his lane... but Wyatt has been a sensitive kid who is afraid of confrontation, rarely speaks up for himself, is seemingly only getting into this to mirror Judd, and wanted his father to do the whole nepo thing because he didn't even have the confidence initially to think he could get into the academy on his own. He was unsure and uncertain and wore it all over him.

Judd was saying that Wyatt doesn't have the mental fortitude for the gig. As in the opposite of "hardened" by life and experience and trauma and loss is "soft" ergo Wyatt is soft. He hasn't experienced the level of hardship or darkness. Wyatt really is a light, bright kid who doesn't feel cut out for the mental and emotional aspects of this job. And there is nothing wrong with that. And Judd isn't even saying that there's anything wrong with that. Hell, I  hate that toxic masculinity bullcrap like the lot of them but I totally understood Judd's point and agreed.

I think, and it would require giving this episode some credit, coupling Wyatts storyline with an episode where the most childlike, seemingly innocent, pure hearted member of the 126 also had some dark background with some trauma thrown in and a story that totally makes you understand how he got into firefighting highlighted this.

Judd's words were harsh but I don't actually think he was wrong about Wyatt or why he has reservations because again, it's a job that could get Wyatt killed or others killed and I too would be very concerned about Wyatt's reaction to losing people. Judd emphasized that Wyatt isn't like him and proceeded to bash HIMSELF for what he is and express that Wyatt is better than he could be. I really didn't read any of that as Judd on some toxic masculinity bullcrap. But they definitely leaned into Judd's blue collar no education way of speaking and expressing himself only for people to just write him off as being a politically incorrect needless hardass on his son or even comparing him to Carlos' dad whose sole reason for telling Carlos that he couldn't be a cop was actually rooted in homophobia... 

I'm still frankly upset that we were so excited for the Ryders to finally have a child but then that got usurped by Wyatt's surprise appearance and now once every blue moon when we get some personal arc for Judd and Grace it tends to revolve around Wyatt. That's what happened most of last season. Now we're back to grace handholding Judd through raising a teenager not their toddler as Wyatt and Judd continue to navigate their relationship. And they've thrown another baby in the mix so they get to be grandparents when we barely got to enjoy them as a couple just being parents to their child. I like Wyatt. He's a sweet kid. But I also resent Wyatt. 

Everything about the mateo thing sucked.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Sweet-n-Snarky

[NeenerNeener]

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

I got the identical cousins reference because I am 48, and I think I watched the show in syndication after school.

 Yeah, that dream bit with Mateo was reallllyyyy bad. They should have handled that story line with a whole lot less cringe. Think Orphan Black, not Patty Duke Show.

[iMonrey]

What in the ever loving fuck did I just watch? I expect a lot of silly shit from this show but the sitcom dream was far worse than I ever thought it would get. I could have maybe handled a minute or two of it but to go on and on past a commercial break was just too much stupid. I'm gobsmacked this ever made it out of the writing room. Clearly the lunatics are in charge of the asylum.

I agree this didn't do Julian Works (Mateo) any favors, he's a middling actor at best, playing a second-rate character, and shouldn't be given too much heavy lifting on this show. And I completely forgot he and Nancy were hooking up.

Yikes. Just - yikes. New low for this show.

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, Msample said:

What, they don’t have bail bonds ( 10% down ) so Matteo needed the whole $25K? Come on writers, try harder.

Seriously. So stupid. Do they think we're stupid about how bail works, or are the writers stupid?
Note: "Stupid" is my F word of choice IRL.

The Identical Cousins with the laugh track and the other actors playing 1950s adults was the best part, IMO.
But that's not saying much.
It was very poorly done.

ETA:
Arrow Lady having a life changing moment was better than the retro bit, but, again, not by much. That was too fast of a 180 change, IMO.

Edited April 5, 2023 by shapeshifter

[marceline]

I think this episode is going to be my offramp. I don't like Mateo. I certainly didn't need Cousin Mateo, Cartoon Mateo, and Dream Mateo. I just fast forwarded through all that mess.

You know what else I'm tired of? Everybody going to Owen with their personal problem just so he can pontificate on shit that has nothing to do with him. Why would you go to your boss to ask for $25K? That's insane.

2 hours ago, Sweet-n-Snarky said:

And they've thrown another baby in the mix so they get to be grandparents when we barely got to enjoy them as a couple just being parents to their child.

There's no way she's going to have that baby. I assume she'll get into an accident (I'm thinking car in a ditch since this show really seems to like that) and that will be the big drama.

[eel21788]

16 hours ago, Msample said:

What, they don’t have bail bonds ( 10% down ) so Matteo needed the whole $25K? Come on writers, try harder.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Seriously. So stupid. Do they think we're stupid about how bail works, or are the writers stupid?
Note: "Stupid" is my F word of choice IRL.

We should have at least been given a throwaway line about how he has skipped out on his bail so many times that a bondsman wouldn't touch him, so Mateo had to come up with the full amount which, of course, would have made Mateo even stupider for deciding to post it for him, especially using his girlfriend's money.

Speaking of stupid, how could his aunt and uncle not put 2 and 2 together and figure out that Mateo was the guilty one? Would they really have let their son tarnish his own record to prevent their nephew from being deported, especially after it led their son down the path to being an ongoing delinquent? 

[MaryHedwig]

2 hours ago, marceline said:

Why would you go to your boss to ask for $25K? That's insane.

Because he is also his roommate. (Which is insane as well.)

[Madding crowd]

The sitcom was awful and I felt embarrassed for the actors having to act out those scenes. I find it hard to believe Nancy had 25K lying around to just transfer to Mateo. And the bail would not be for the full amount. As for Wyatt; you can’t just enroll in the fire academy. You have to apply, take mental and physical tests, have background checks and then you will be on a waiting list until the department is hiring. You would only go to the academy once you are hired. Of course we know Strand can do anything. Also didn’t like Judd’s toughen you up stuff.

[Sweet-n-Snarky]

5 hours ago, LtKelley said:

In fairness, based off sensitivity and softness, Owen, TK, Marjan, Mateo, and Paul are pretty sensitive by Judd standards, and in fact Judd was initially a whiny crybaby ass about them because they werebnot big burly men who like to hunt animals and you know, be MEN in their off hours. 

I was also uncomfortable with Judd's level of embarrassment all around when it comes to Wyatt being soft. Maybe someone needs to point out that if Judd was a man and minding where his penis splurted his seed, instead of fucking and leaving like a MAN, then maybe Judd would have had more to do with the raising of his blood son instead of finding out when the kid was almost grown that fucking a barrell rider while drunk has consequences. Because really, Judd has actually had very few consequences in regards to Wyatt and it shows in his petulant bitchery. 

if Judd was smart, and if he genuinely believes Wyatt doesn't have the grit, then he should do nothing because Wyatt simply won't pass the fire academy. "Grit" however is one of those intangibles. While I personally don't see Wyatt as the firefighter type (I think he was set up to be the sensitive gentle son in part to make Judd look like an ass in prior episodes) to where I find the career choice odd, he's actually making a pretty mature decision in the circumstances. He's gotten a girl pregnant, he loves her, abortion apparently isn't an option, they're going to get married, so he needs a job that pays well with health care. Even though  Wyatt might prefer continuing college, he's making the mature choice. 

But.... the whole gotcha of Judd's behavior was them leaning into the notion that he's a stereotypical "redneck" and him not actually being that at all. That was always the point. 

And his behavior was always more so rooted in all these transplants coming in to replace his brothers he lost. His whole shtick was being Texas and doing Texas things. 

And Judd wasn't embarrassed about Wyatt? He just didn't know how to connect with him and had to figure out something they were both into since he found out Wyatt wasn't into any of the things that he was. They even acknowledged how insecure it made him that he didn't know how to connect outside of what he knew. Just like they acknowledged his insecurities here as a blue collar worker with no education watching, in his mind, his intelligent son throw that away for a blue collar job when he knew he "could be better than him" it's the same issue he had when Grace's father got in his head and he was afraid the brilliant woman he loved was giving up a promising future to be with him before he realized that she really wasn't happy with school and her career path.

And, like, are we really saying that it's Judd's fault alone that the barrel racer he slept with didn't tell him he had a child for SEVENTEEN YEARS?! Like, there was no way of knowing that the moment he found that out he wouldn't have done everything to be a good dad to his child. Canon supports that he would. 

I wouldn't call running to join the fire academy last minute after deadline as the mature decision. On one hand, I fully believe that his parents would do what they could to assist him in finishing his degree especially because in the long run it would benefit his family. He'd make nice money as a software engineer. 

On the other hand, even if he intended to get a decent steady job in time to support his family, there are other options besides a firefighter? That's not a job you rush into last minute as a backup plan without much thought. Not only does him missing the deadline for it speak to his lack of unpreparedness but his belief that Judd could just "put in a good world" lowkey reeks of entitlement and some delusion. 

In this same vain, he could have just as easily took the courses to be a paramedic and that would have suited him better, given him the benefits to take care of his family and more. He could have took any number of federal exams for federal jobs like being a mailperson etc. All with similar results.

I don't think rushing into one of the most dangerous jobs out there on a whim with a young family is the most mature choice. 

And his grit very much is anout the mental and emotional fortitude the job entails. Even the academy doesn't properly prepare you for that aspect.

I mean. I won't change your mind on anything, so that's fine. I just think the Judd hate here is disproportionate to what we've actually seen, and I don't agree.

 

2 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Because he is also his roommate. (Which is insane as well.)

Mateo really did become replacement TK for Owen. 🤣

4 hours ago, marceline said:

I think this episode is going to be my offramp. I don't like Mateo. I certainly didn't need Cousin Mateo, Cartoon Mateo, and Dream Mateo. I just fast forwarded through all that mess.

You know what else I'm tired of? Everybody going to Owen with their personal problem just so he can pontificate on shit that has nothing to do with him. Why would you go to your boss to ask for $25K? That's insane.

There's no way she's going to have that baby. I assume she'll get into an accident (I'm thinking car in a ditch since this show really seems to like that) and that will be the big drama.

Please not the car in the ditch. More parallels so they can become Judd and Grace 2.0. 

For some reason I feel like we're definitely getting the baby but they'll save all the drama for when Wyatt joins the 126 and has his first big near death experience that lands him in the hospital and causes Leanne to go into labor early.

[marceline]

2 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Because he is also his roommate. (Which is insane as well.)

Oh FFS. I completely forgot that. Why can't Mateo sleep at the firehouse?

[iMonrey]

Quote

What, they don’t have bail bonds ( 10% down ) so Matteo needed the whole $25K? Come on writers, try harder.

Not that this show deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially after this latest episode, but it's possible the bail was actually $250K and the $25K was the 10% for the bail bond.

[eel21788]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Not that this show deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially after this latest episode, but it's possible the bail was actually $250K and the $25K was the 10% for the bail bond.

How much is bail for theft of automobile (PC 487(d)(1))?
The bail amount for theft of automobile is $35,000.

From:

https://www.spolinlaw.com/bail-guide/los-angeles-county-bail-amounts-for-felonies/#:~:text=How much is bail for grand theft of person (PC,theft of person is %2425%2C000.

[bilgistic]

6 hours ago, marceline said:

You know what else I'm tired of? Everybody going to Owen with their personal problem just so he can pontificate on shit that has nothing to do with him. Why would you go to your boss to ask for $25K? That's insane.

 

3 hours ago, MaryHedwig said:

Because he is also his roommate. (Which is insane as well.)

There was a scene last week in which Nancy was with Mateo eating breakfast when Owen walked into the kitchen. Like, cool, just your boss hanging out with you after you and your boyfriend banged. Why would Nancy ever stay there?!

[possibilities]

9 hours ago, bilgistic said:

And in that dream, Owen was married to Tommy? OK, I guess.

I think that's because Mateo sees Owen and Tommy as parental figures-- Owen's his boss and Tommy is the boss of the paramedic team.

[MaryHedwig]

23 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

There was a scene last week in which Nancy was with Mateo eating breakfast when Owen walked into the kitchen. Like, cool, just your boss hanging out with you after you and your boyfriend banged. Why would Nancy ever stay there?!

Let's not forget, Owen, their boss, just banged in the next room and "got paid for it".

[possibilities]

They're adults. They have overnight guests. Anyone who's had a housemate has had a breakfast guest of this sort. In itself, that's not a big deal.

Being housemate to your boss is another matter, but the show sells the idea that the firehouse is liee a family. I know it's bullshit, but that's how the show wants us to view the situation.

 

[Artsda]

That was not good. Matteo has no money how?

[cmfran]

I woke up this morning and swore I hallucinated that awful dream sequence. But no, I did not.

For a show with a lot of bad episodes across all seasons, this one was the worst. And only one semi-bonkers rescue, which is all I started watching this show for.

[BooksRule]

I didn't like the whole '1950s-60s sitcom dream' story, but I think that every show has to have one of those types of plotlines during the run of the show--although it's usually another sitcom that does it ('King of Queens' had Doug act out 'The Honeymooners', for example).  So, maybe they got it out of their system and we're done with it.  (Although, they haven't had a 'musical episode' yet, have they?  That's generally another 'must' for a show.  Eeek!)

Was the arrow lady the only rescue?

[mojoween]

The dream was even worse than I thought it was going to be because I was spoiled for it, except for Marjan.  Her OTT reactions were hilarious.  

[iMonrey]

23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The Identical Cousins with the laugh track and the other actors playing 1950s adults was the best part, IMO.
But that's not saying much.
It was very poorly done.

I mean, clearly the actors were having fun with it, so good for them I guess. But the gimmick seemed so out of place and inappropriate for this show. As BooksRule pointed out, it's the kind of thing you usually see on another sitcom or at least a "dramedy." This is neither despite some of the over-the-top rescues. It just felt shockingly out of place to me.

Kind of reminds me of The Brady Bunch Variety Hour where suddenly you're overly aware these are all actors playing a role and now you can't take the show seriously anymore.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I mean, clearly the actors were having fun with it, so good for them I guess. But the gimmick seemed so out of place and inappropriate for this show. As BooksRule pointed out, it's the kind of thing you usually see on another sitcom or at least a "dramedy." This is neither despite some of the over-the-top rescues. It just felt shockingly out of place to me.

Kind of reminds me of The Brady Bunch Variety Hour where suddenly you're overly aware these are all actors playing a role and now you can't take the show seriously anymore.

For me, I also thought the sitcom aspect was shockingly (or not so shockingly) badly written. None of the lines were funny; it was very on-the-nose on Mateo's backstory that it became obvious what was going on. The lines weren't written in a sitcom-style; they were written as a random dream sequence. You take out the laugh track and zany set, the dialogue doesn't need to be changed because none of the lines, as far as I watched, were haha funny. Maybe the second part with the entire cast, but I skipped past that segment so maybe it got funnier. 

[shapeshifter]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

You take out the laugh track and zany set, the dialogue doesn't need to be changed because none of the lines, as far as I watched, were haha funny. Maybe the second part with the entire cast, but I skipped past that segment so maybe it got funnier. 

Nope.
But the only part that was "funny" was the characters of the show dressed up to play other, 1950s-90s characters. 
Maybe Rob Lowe or someone else suggested doing such an episode, and the other actors or writers etc. thought it sounded fun too.
But then it was no fun at all.

[tennisgurl]

What a weird episode, I really do not like these plot developments. Mateo is normally fine as a supporting character but he is just not interesting enough to carry the emotional weight of an episode. The backstory was surprisingly dark and ended on a real downer, but the whole sitcom dream to explain the backstory was really awkward. The cast seemed to be having fun hamming it up but the whole set up was so awkward and silly. 

I don't love Wyatt becoming a firefighter. Setting aside Judd's issues with masculinity or him, calling Wyatt "soft" he isn't wrong that Wyatt doesn't seem like he would be a good fit for the job. Judd certainly has had issues with the fact that Wyatt isn't as stereotypically masculine as he is, especially as it made it hard for him to relate to him at first, but it more sounded like he thought that Wyatt was wasting his potential than anything. Its just a weird way for the show to reintroduce Wyatt, I wish that the show could have found a better story for Judd and Grace.

Edited April 8, 2023 by tennisgurl

[jabRI]

On 4/7/2023 at 1:38 PM, tennisgurl said:

I wish that the4 show could have found a better story for Judd and Grace.

I don't know what it is, maybe post-baby, but their stories have not been compelling, Grace especially seems to be calling it in.

[Bruinsfan]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:50 PM, Artsda said:

That was not good. Matteo has no money how?

Does he seem the type to save and invest wisely? I wouldn't be surprised if every spare dollar went to a flashy car loan and Pokemon cards.

So Mateo's aunt adopted his twin brother as a child and then took him in as a young teen, right?

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bruinsfan

[Lethallyfab]

If I am going to sit through a seven-minute-long dream sequence on my TV, it better be directed by David Lynch.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:11 PM, Msample said:

What, they don’t have bail bonds ( 10% down ) so Matteo needed the whole $25K? Come on writers, try harder.

But if you use a bail bonds place it's 10% that you don't get back. If Matteo has no cash to the point where the only money he has for the bail is selling his Pokemon cards he probably can't afford to lose $2500. 

The dream sequence was dumb, especially since Matteo is what maybe 25? So his dream family sitcom should look more like maybe Malcolm in the Middle of Modern Family rather than something where a milkman is a character.

As for Judd I really thought he was going to bring up that if he makes a call for his kid to get him into firefighter training, after the application cut off, the other recruits are going to hate him. And the fact that he wants his dad to call in a favour to get around the rules is a sign he isn't ready.

[shapeshifter]

42 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The dream sequence was dumb, especially since Matteo is what maybe 25? So his dream family sitcom should look more like maybe Malcolm in the Middle of Modern Family rather than something where a milkman is a character.

I agree with the other complaints you/we voiced about the episode, so I’m hesitant to make any excuses for seeming plot holes in the episode, but I can easily imagine Matteo having grown up watching old reruns of shows from the previous generation, and so those shows are populating his dreams.

About Julian Works’ (Matteo) age, I don’t know if the Gossip Next Door website is reliable or not, but they say he’s 32.🤷🏻‍♀️
So, yeah, Matteo is probably about 25.

[elianoraflom]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:57 AM, shapeshifter said:

I agree with the other complaints you/we voiced about the episode, so I’m hesitant to make any excuses for seeming plot holes in the episode, but I can easily imagine Matteo having grown up watching old reruns of shows from the previous generation, and so those shows are populating his dreams.

About Julian Works’ (Matteo) age, I don’t know if the Gossip Next Door website is reliable or not, but they say he’s 32.🤷🏻‍♀️
So, yeah, Matteo is probably about 25.

I understand why you're frustrated with Robyn, but I think you're being too hard on her. She made the best decision she could with the information she had at the time. I think she's a strong woman who deserves our compassion, not our judgment.