Anna Bates: A Lady's Lady

[Rhondinella]

My favorite character.  Still on the fence about the whole rape storyline.  I think the actress played it beautifully and it might have been interesting in the right hands.  But the way they dragged it out and made Anna act crazy trying to keep it from Bates was completely unrealistic and annoying.  I'm not saying I'm sorry Bates pushed the rapist in front of a cab, but I was hoping for slighly more subtlety with a storyline involving one of the more interesting and relatable characters on the show.

[SnarkySheep]

 

But the way they dragged it out and made Anna act crazy trying to keep it from Bates was completely unrealistic and annoying.

Well, yes and no. Personally I thought it was a bit nutty myself, but it seems that may be because I'm looking at it from a 21st century perspective. From what I've read, supposedly there WERE men in that place and time who would have considered Anna "spoiled goods" after her rape, despite of course her having fought it with everything she had, and it being absolutely not her fault. (IMO she should have realized that her husband wouldn't be like that, but I think she was in such shock and grief after the experience, she likely wasn't thinking too clearly, so we can cut her a bit of slack.)

All along, I've wanted two main things regarding Anna: to learn more about her background (i,e. what kind of family does she come from? is anyone still around? etc.) and to have her become a mother. I know that given all the other pregnancies on the show, it was probably seen by TPTB as a bit of overkill, and of course there's the small problem of what to do with a young child when it's got a working mother. But surely they could come up with something, perhaps a woman in a neighboring cottage who could babysit for a few shillings, or even have Anna bring the child to the main house with her (not realistic, of course, but it IS fiction, and Mary would likely be willing to accommodate the situation if Anna's leaving were the alternative). At this point, however, it doesn't seem likely that we'll go down either road, but who knows.

[Rhondinella]

I like the idea of meeting Anna's family.

[Tetraneutron]

I think what made her more appealing in the first few seasons was she did things. She took charge when Mary came to her for help, she was able to keep up with Thomas and O'Brien and help Bates, she went after him when she knew she loved him. But the rape inverted all that, and the show blew any dramatic possibilities. After she was raped, she just cowered and panicked and let Mary, Mrs. Hughes, and Bates, handle it. I don't think she should have gone all Xena Warrior Princess, because that's unrealistic and not necessary, but she could have done SOMETHING. Be in charge of when and how to tell Bates. Ensuse she's protected rather than relying on Mrs. Hughes to do it. Not rely on Mary to get Gillingham to fire Green. Not act like a scared rabbit with the police. Defend herself. Fight back in some way. Which should be easy since she's innocent.

[DeepRunner]

It's remarkable how quickly Anna went from being an interesting character (series one) to a drag on the show (every series since one). Of course, it's no coincidence she was more watchable before becoming mired in the mess of John Bates.

 

SMH at the Bates hate. Yes, John Bates is my favorite character. But I think Bates has been done a horrible disservice in the way he has been written over the course of time. I think generally, all the characters have slid since S1. Anna was the show's conscience, Robert was a good and benevolent Earl of Grantham, Mary was interesting if snarky, even Cora was good, ATBE.

 

Unfortunately, too often, the characters have been flattened. Carson sometimes borders on the insufferable, Cora is often dopey, etc. But Anna has been the most steady of all the characters. The rape storyline was ill-conceived and even more poorly executed, and shifted attention too quickly from the victim to Bates. And it has lingered...and lingered...and so on, and so forth, and what have you. 

 

If there is a drag on the show, it is the bad concepts and worse writing.

[DeepRunner]

Agreed on your last statement, Chattygal.

 

For me, what is intriguing about Bates is his dark side. They haven't tapped into it enough. But then, I like Darth Sidious, Michael Corleone, etc. Bates has always seemed more of an enforcer type, and, although TPTB have let us see some of that aspect, particularly in his exchange with Mrs. Hughes in her sitting room in S4, they haven't let us see enough to make Bates a true antihero. 

[Camera One]

I was reading this interview from the actress in anticipation for Season 5:

http://www.accesshollywood.com/downton-abbey-season-5-preview-whats-next-for-anna-bates_article_102324#vc6txAHqlyRppB23.99

 

"That sort of experience is not something that just goes away or that you get over. It's something that changes you as a person and I've sort of gone into playing Anna in Season 5 with that in mind -- that she's – she is changed as a person by what's happened to her, and sort of at the beginning of Season 5, I feel that there's a little spark of her that's sort of just gone a little bit, that's been put out," Joanne said. "Hopefully that spark will comeback at some point, but I don't think it was sort of truthful to play it any other way really."
 

Anna has been sort of bland since the rape episode but what the actress says really makes sense, since it wouldn't make sense to play it any other way.  But the loss of that spark makes the character more sad and less fun to watch overall.

 

They really gave her very little screentime for dealing with what she went through. She has mostly been mired in the whole Bates/murder suspect "mystery", which also makes her character drab and less enjoyable.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Camera One

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Currently watching S4 on blu, to get up to speed for Sunday's premiere. Just viewed the eppy when Anna was raped, more graphic than I expected.

[Camera One]

The violence of it was what shocked me.  How he physically hit her.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The violence of it was what shocked me.  How he physically hit her.

When he punched Anna, with a closed fist.

I flinched.

[mbutterfly]

Yeah for Joanne Froggatt for the Golden Globe. 

[Avaleigh]

I'm so happy she won! She looked both shocked and thrilled. 

 

She and Maggie are the only two to win individual awards for acting on the show, right?

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I'm so happy she won! She looked both shocked and thrilled.

She and Maggie are the only two to win individual awards for acting on the show, right?

Yes.

Loved the dress, she looked beautiful.

Edited January 12, 2015 by MrsRafaelBarba

[CleoCaesar]

I was really happy that Joanne won. She looked great (I caught myself thinking, She looks so...modern!) and gave a crisp, well delivered speech. I've always liked Anna (and love Anna/Lady Mary scenes), and JF is really the reason why. She brings so much warmth to the character. Congrats to her on the win.

[HoodlumSheep]

Congrats on the win Joanne!

[BkWurm1]

I was so pleased she won.  For all its buzz, actors on Downton Abbey so rarely do.  Of course thinking back to season 4, it makes a lot of sense that she win.  Just touching on that one episode; it was utterly shocking and horrible and it should have been.  I'm glad her performance got recognition...even if I'm deeply grateful that storyline is mostly in the past. 

[Constantinople]

Considering that Green raped Anna, and that I don't feel all that bad if someone did deliberately push him in front of a bus, it's truly amazing that I'd be OK if someone pushed Anna & John in front of their own bus provided it ends Green's murder investigation and prevents any future investigations involving either one of them.

Good job JF!

[ZoloftBlob]

Yep. I had a big thing for John and Anna in Season 1 and 2 and honestly..... I just don't care any more.

[photo fox]

Yep. I had a big thing for John and Anna in Season 1 and 2 and honestly..... I just don't care any more.

I would agree with this up until the last episode, when I did enjoy their scene at home. They were happy and reminded me of earlier seasons' Banna. But then they came and arrested Anna, and I just can't with this. Throw them in the Tower, burn them at the stake, but I don't want to watch Nervous Anna and her husband Brooding Bates anymore.

[ZoloftBlob]

The Bates storyline exemplifies the writing failure on the show more than anything else. I mean, I can forgive the whole "Mary is husband hunting" redo of season one drag out over season four and five (and apparently season six as well) because there was a major blow to the show with Dan Stevens leaving. Likewise the endless nonsense about Gregson that apparently had to do with the actor's availability. But there's no *external* reason for the Anna and Bates murder plot to be completely repeated, rehashed, and dragged out over years. Really, this is the best Fellowes can do?

[SusanSunflower]

 

But there's no *external* reason for the Anna and Bates murder plot to be completely repeated, rehashed, and dragged out over years. Really, this is the best Fellowes can do?

and, fwiw, Greene's murder was not even a satisfying resolution of Anna's rape ... nor, of course, was Mr. Bates' reaction, nor was Anna's emotional recovery which just sort of happened ... so they're back talking about making babies.  (Even Anna and John's 3-year (?) infertility problem could have been mined for character/relationship development. Suggest: Anna mention the irony of Mary needing birth control while she and John would give anything for a child ... etc.  Somehow Greene's murder (if it was murder and I'm not at all convinced) was some sort of "put paid" on Greene's villainy, except then the miraculous lineup (of victims?)  I do remember The Forsyte Saga -- and even though Soames did not dispatch horse carriage of death to kill Bosinney, although Bosinney was distracted by the rape and then there was -- act of god to kill an adulterer -- the fog -- in many hearts, Soame's bad act led directly to Bosinney's death and Irene's long lonely exile.

Edited March 1, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[Hecate7]

Well, yes and no. Personally I thought it was a bit nutty myself, but it seems that may be because I'm looking at it from a 21st century perspective. From what I've read, supposedly there WERE men in that place and time who would have considered Anna "spoiled goods" after her rape, despite of course her having fought it with everything she had, and it being absolutely not her fault. (IMO she should have realized that her husband wouldn't be like that, but I think she was in such shock and grief after the experience, she likely wasn't thinking too clearly, so we can cut her a bit of slack.)

All along, I've wanted two main things regarding Anna: to learn more about her background (i,e. what kind of family does she come from? is anyone still around? etc.) and to have her become a mother. I know that given all the other pregnancies on the show, it was probably seen by TPTB as a bit of overkill, and of course there's the small problem of what to do with a young child when it's got a working mother. But surely they could come up with something, perhaps a woman in a neighboring cottage who could babysit for a few shillings, or even have Anna bring the child to the main house with her (not realistic, of course, but it IS fiction, and Mary would likely be willing to accommodate the situation if Anna's leaving were the alternative). At this point, however, it doesn't seem likely that we'll go down either road, but who knows.

 

It wasn't about hiding the rape to keep him from being angry with herself, it was to keep him from killing Greene and getting himself hanged. That's why I don't think Anna did it, either--she wouldn't want to risk that Bates be blamed for it.

 

Then again, if she could be absolutely certain Bates didn't know, then she could kill Greene herself without worrying too much about getting Bates in trouble. Unfortunately the abrupt end of her friendliness with Greene made it completely obvious to anyone paying attention what had happened there.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Hecate7

[caligirl50]

I wondered why the police/anyone never thought that any of the other rape victims had Greene killed.  Why focus on just that household? Because Bates and Baxter had been in prison?  No one the entire time said anything about the other victims.

[ZoloftBlob]

To be honest, I just think the whole Green storyline was badly conceived and badly written. I mean, I have seen episodes of Father Brown involving a cult of pagans murdering sacrifices to end a poilio outbreak that feel more plausible and historically accurate than the Green rape storyline.

[SusanSunflower]

It was a massive miscalculation in many ways -- not the breath of fresh air to follow the saintly John Bates' interminable legal travails ... I thought it just might have worked if (virginal) Daisy had been the victim ... but really no one wanted to see a rape in the food preparation area ... bleech.  I suspected it was a plot development to keep the actors on-board (particularly Froggatt, but also Coyle -- y'know acting)  ... and for Fellowes  a chance to "go dark" ... 

[ZoloftBlob]

I don't mind "going dark" (to be honest the show occasionally needs something other than money woes and dating woes) . If Anna had simply been raped and had to deal with the aftermath, that part worked and was compeling. Its when suddenly we're all burning tickets as evidence and the coppers are dredging up the "hit by bus" maybe an accident, maybe murder, just so we can have a little dance about arresting Bates and arresting Anna... It was just bizarrely unrealistic that the police would even still be investigating. I mean, I can handwave at a lot of stupidity (see the above pagan cultists curing polio with Father Brown) but not things that really should feel real.

[Tukahar]

What I can't figure out is how they went from saying it was a small blonde woman, cleared Bates and arrested Anna, then when she was cleared they arrested Bates again. How did they get from point A(nna) to point B(ates)??

[caligirl50]

Anna wasn't cleared.  She was out on bail because Bates confessed (confession was a big thing back then I guess).  But Bates wasn't arrested.  He was hiding in Ireland.  Season 6 will be interesting to see how it is handled.

[Badger]

I don't believe anyone killed Mr. Green.  I think he got into an altercation with one of his former victims and got so agitated he didn't look where he was going and ended up falling into the street.  

[ZoloftBlob]

Badger - thats as likely as anything else and part of why the now two year investigation is increasingly ridiculous. First, we have to suspend disbelief that the police would intensely investigate the apparent accidental death of Green. Then we have to believe that it was somehow tracked back to the Bates family and that anyone would really put this much time and effort into what looks like a sleazeball. Then we have to believe something could be proven.

[helenamonster]

If they do end this entire saga with Green just having tripped over his own two rapist feet into oncoming traffic, I will...well, probably just rant about it on the internet using caps, bolding, and italics, but Fellowes will be able to feel my anger all the way across the pond.

[ZoloftBlob]

Helenmonster, I am pretty imaginative and I will allow any number of unrealistic moments if the end result pleases me, but I can't think of a resolution to the Green murder investigation that won't make people rant. Even just dropping it is going to piss people off after two years of it. Which is a shame because Anna and Bates deserve better.

[SusanSunflower]

any resolution will indeed piss people off ... but perhaps not nearly as much as continuing that story line into the next -- final -- season ... let's have Anna's pregnancy be the end of ever mentioning it again.  It might have been more interesting if Bates had shunned Anna or even blamed her ... but that would have required extended writing that was avoided by angry broody and mysteriously briefly absent Bates (which pretty much erased all of whatever affection I still held for the character and the actor). The idea that the police would care at all -- even about a serial rapist of London servants -- I suspect is beyond the belief system of the time which largely relied on the "she asked for it" one-size-fits-all" rationale. 

Edited July 7, 2015 by SusanSunflower

[helenamonster]

Helenmonster, I am pretty imaginative and I will allow any number of unrealistic moments if the end result pleases me, but I can't think of a resolution to the Green murder investigation that won't make people rant. Even just dropping it is going to piss people off after two years of it. Which is a shame because Anna and Bates deserve better.

 

Oh for sure. I mean, what are our options? They pretty much cleared Anna and Bates in the CS. Gareth Neame scoffed at the idea of Mary being the culprit in an interview (not to mention that if it was revealed to be so at this point, she'd look pretty damn shitty and I can't see Fellowes doing that to his favorite character). Who else is there? Most of the potential suspects (Mrs. Hughes? Thomas? Baxter?) are accounted for at the time of Green's death. Gillingham, maybe? I have literally no idea, and I really don't care, which sucks because I do care about Anna but good God, even I can't stomach this.

 

I think where Fellowes really shot himself in the foot (besides twisting the rape story into a whodunnit) was by dragging this whole thing out over almost two whole seasons. Anyone who was already getting annoyed with Anna and Bates didn't want that, and those of us who still like them most definitely didn't want that. Plus, he's not doing much to hide the fact that he's pulling the entire story out of his ass as he goes. Anna was molested by her stepfather as a child? Really? REALLY???

[Hecate7]

There's nothing all that unusual about that. If anything it was more common back in the days when ALL sex was basically forbidden, secret, and not to be talked of, because one could be reasonably sure one's victims would never, ever talk.

[Featherhat]

Unless its going to turn out that "plot twist" Green is the illegitimate son of someone very powerful who is mourning his death I'd prefer they just drop it. I know its Downton so this is already implied but its ridiculous the Met haven't dropped this investigation yet, they don't have infinite resources to investigate something that might very well be an accident on a crowded street. Unless there is the other reason like someone trying to taint the Grantham's as well.

Anna being molested by her stepfather would unfortunately not be that uncommon then or now but like everything about the storyline didn't work for me.

[Hecate7]

Obviously the Greene thing has to do with Bates's earlier prison term, and is  one of those people taking revenge on him. There is a little shuffling around at the beginning when the guy goes to identify the suspect, where the guard literally steers him towards Anna with a jerk of his head. But there's a long look at a different slight blondish girl. I suspect there will be enough layering here to draw Baxter into it, too, as we find out what her "difficult position" was.

[helenamonster]

There's nothing all that unusual about that. If anything it was more common back in the days when ALL sex was basically forbidden, secret, and not to be talked of, because one could be reasonably sure one's victims would never, ever talk.

 

It's not that it's unusual, just that we'd known Anna for five seasons and over twelve in-show years and we'd never heard a peep about it. Didn't even know she'd had a stepfather. It didn't come up when she was actually raped either. Nope, it was just a little backstory tidbit thrown in when there was no other logical reason for her to be arrested. There were no reliable witnesses to Green's murder (the original witness was said to be a woman but it was a man who picked Anna out of the lineup), and despite the apparent string of tiny blonde ladies he'd assaulted in his life, Anna was the only one who'd had a history of defending herself against sexual predators so of course it had to be her.

 

I find the way the show just casually dropped another sexual assault into Anna's backstory to be absolutely disgusting, and resent the unnecessary repeat victimization she's been subjected to. Enough is fucking enough.

[Hecate7]

Well, it's really not something people just casually discuss. I can't really think of another moment when it would have been appropriate or logical for Anna to mention being molested. I don't think she's the only one of the victims, just the only one whose history was known to the police like that.

 

And the fact that it's a man, not a woman, who picks Anna out of the lineup, supports my theory that it's a setup to begin with, and that Baxter is the woman who was blackmailed or threatened into "witnessing" the incident. Probably Bates' enemies, particularly the corrupt guard, are blackmailing former prisoner Baxter into giving false witness, and so they already know they want Anna. This isn't at all about who killed Green. Nobody probably really cares who killed him, but someone saw a chance here to get even with Bates. That's my guess.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Hecate7

[ZoloftBlob]

I think my problem with "and btw my step dad molested me" is that the show has a tendency to drop these character altering tidbits at the drop of a hat for no real purpose. Like for example, years and years into the show, after a poignant episode where she turns down an old lover because she prefers to stay at the house and after a lengthy breast cancer scare... not once did Mrs. Hughes mention the r******* sister she's been supporting her entire life until season five. That Anna was suddenly molested by her step dad is eyerolly

[helenamonster]

Aw man, I'd actually completely forgotten about Mrs. Hughes's sister. I feel like that says everything that needs to be said about that plot point.

 

But, yeah, that and Anna's revelation two sides of the same shitty coin that I like to call an ass-pull.

 

I do agree, however, that Anna's arrest and the entire Green investigation will probably have something to do with someone from prison messing with Bates. Everything about her arrest smelled fishy, and not just "this storyline has gone on far too long and it is now blatantly obvious that Fellowes is flying by the seat of his pants with it" fishy, though I think that still applies. But who is messing with Bates? His cell mate? That one crooked guard that was in cahoots with the cell mate? Yaaaaaaawn. Just end it and write the spin-off where Anna becomes a newly single private investigator already.

[TnTexas]

And the fact that it's a man, not a woman, who picks Anna out of the lineup, supports my theory that it's a setup to begin with, and that Baxter is the woman who was blackmailed or threatened into "witnessing" the incident. Probably Bates' enemies, particularly the corrupt guard, are blackmailing former prisoner Baxter into giving false witness, and so they already know they want Anna. This isn't at all about who killed Green. Nobody probably really cares who killed him, but someone saw a chance here to get even with Bates. That's my guess.

 

 

I do agree, however, that Anna's arrest and the entire Green investigation will probably have something to do with someone from prison messing with Bates. Everything about her arrest smelled fishy, and not just "this storyline has gone on far too long and it is now blatantly obvious that Fellowes is flying by the seat of his pants with it" fishy, though I think that still applies. But who is messing with Bates? His cell mate? That one crooked guard that was in cahoots with the cell mate? Yaaaaaaawn. Just end it and write the spin-off where Anna becomes a newly single private investigator already.

 

This is the only way I can see of making any sense at all out of the fiasco. Supposing this is the way it winds up playing out (haven't read anything about what's been happening in season 6), it shouldn't have taken two seasons for that to be made clear. That should have been made clear this past season (season 5), not been left to speculation.