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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Homicide: Life On The Street - General Discussion

WendyCR72

By WendyCR72
in Homicide: Life On The Street

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

With the loss of Richard Belzer/Det. John Munch, I figured it was high time to give Munch's first "home" a thread.

Yes, Munch was known for SVU, but it is HLOTS that gave him his start. Not to mention the mega-force Det. Frank Pembleton, played by André Braugher, Det. Kay Howard played by Melissa Leo, and so many more.

Talk about the show here. Its various seasons and memorable episodes, not to mention its expansion into the world of L&O, and even actors guesting on the latter franchise and/or vice versa. (Melissa Leo, I do recall, played a villain on L&O: Criminal Intent as an example!) 

Any memories? Let's chat!

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

Homicide is an underrated, very good show - I have no idea why it’s never shown in reruns on a network! The first couple of seasons were just outstanding television - a great cast of characters with interesting cases. NBC executives meddled with the show in its later seasons and forced them to add more soapy plots and sex appeal, which was dumb, but it was still a quality show. But I love those early seasons - Munch/Bolander were a great partnership, of course Pembleton was great, the boss, Gee, was a cool character, I liked Meldrick and his first partner Crosetti a lot as well - and it was cool to see Meldrick show up at Munch’s retirement party on SVU all those years later!! And Danvers, the prosecutor, was good as well. I really enjoyed the 3 L&O crossovers where Munch/Briscoe and McCoy/Danvers worked together.   
Really good show, I may have to go back and rewatch some of it, especially the early episodes. I wish a network would start showing it on tv. 

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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1 minute ago, Xeliou66 said:

Homicide is an underrated, very good show - I have no idea why it’s never shown in reruns on a network! The first couple of seasons were just outstanding television - a great cast of characters with interesting cases. NBC executives meddled with the show in its later seasons and forced them to add more soapy plots and sex appeal, which was dumb, but it was still a quality show. But I love those early seasons - Munch/Bolander were a great partnership, of course Pembleton was great, the boss, Gee, was a cool character, I liked Meldrick and his first partner Crosetti a lot as well - and it was cool to see Meldrick show up at Munch’s retirement party on SVU all those years later!! And Danvers, the prosecutor, was good as well. I really enjoyed the 3 L&O crossovers where Munch/Briscoe and McCoy/Danvers worked together.   
Really good show, I may have to go back and rewatch some of it, especially the early episodes. I wish a network would start showing it on tv. 

Yeah, I don't get why it doesn't stream, either. You'd think Peacock would put it on the platform.

I know the later seasons weren't regarded as great as the early seasons, but I do know "Subway" in Season 6 actually won a Peabody. So the awards still deservedly came...

The complete series is still available on DVD. Not a bad price, either.

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wknt3

wknt3

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, I don't get why it doesn't stream, either. You'd think Peacock would put it on the platform.

I know the later seasons weren't regarded as great as the early seasons, but I do know "Subway" in Season 6 actually won a Peabody. So the awards still deservedly came...

The complete series is still available on DVD. Not a bad price, either.

According to what David Simon has said previously the lawyers screwed up and they don't have music rights for streaming. Sort of like what happened with WKRP. My understanding is that the contracts mentioned home video, but didn't have language that covered streaming or other technologies that might come along as other series did. And given the amount of music that was used and tightly integrated artistically (so not easily replaceable with something in the catalog) it is probably prohibitively expensive for what would be a prestige pickup and not a major draw on the level of The Office or Friends.

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Jaded

Jaded

(edited)

When the Sleuth/Cloo channel was around in the mid 2000's it aired Homicide: LOTS. I wish the wiki for it had a better history of aired programs and for how long. I know they stopped airing Homicide at some point though. I watched all the seasons as they aired when they first started airing since it had been so long since I had seen the show. Sleuth then turned into Cloo in 2011 and I don't remember watching it as much after that even though it was still mystery related programming. Sleuth/Cloo was in the NBCUniversal family though.

Edited by Jaded
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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26 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Trying to find this so I can watch it, damn it!

As @wknt3 said, I guess music rights is now an issue with this. It did use a lot. Your best bet, as archaic as it is, is likely buying the DVD set linked above if you ever want to see it!

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jah1986

jah1986

I loved this show during its initial run! So many great characters. I don't remember episode titles, just more great moments. TV Guide used to have a quote of the week from broadcast shows and so many times the quote was a line from H:LOTS.  One was Pembleton to Bayliss "you can have the ER, I'll take Homicide".  A great line because so many actors started out on H:LOTS and then migrated over to the show ER.

Loved Frank not going to Crosetti's funeral but standing in the dress blues when the squad walked by. I think that was the beginning of the Pembleton love.

Gee telling Frank he put up with him because he "turned red names black". How Gee put his kids through college playing Hearts.

There were some great villains too, stand out would be Luther Mahoney.

I clearly need to dust off my dvd's and re-watch this show.

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MusubiMyHomie

MusubiMyHomie

(edited)
1 hour ago, jah1986 said:

One was Pembleton to Bayliss "you can have the ER, I'll take Homicide".  A great line because so many actors started out on H:LOTS and then migrated over to the show ER.

I'll never forget that scene. It went exactly like this:

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Pembleton: "We just don't get the credit doctors do. We don't get the attention."
Bayliss: "All right, just forget I said anything about it, OK?"
Pembleton: "You want glory? Huh? Go work at ER. Homicide's fine by me."

And I just realized this now: Andre Braugher was also doing a shout-out to Glory, one of his earliest movies, as well as the first place where I saw Braugher act. Twenty-seven years of being a fan of that Pembleton line, and I never noticed that until now!

That's one of the many reasons why the first four seasons of Homicide were terrific. They were full of things you don't catch until about 27 to 30 years later.

Edited by MusubiMyHomie
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EtheltoTillie

EtheltoTillie

 I really should add to the Belzer party story.  He was bombing with the corporate audience.  He had been recommended to us because he was getting a name for himself at Catch, but he was more edgy than our audience was.  So he ad libbed and fell into the waiting anniversary cake that was part of the celebration.  That got a laugh. 

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callie lee 29

callie lee 29

(edited)

@ebk57 great article, thank you! Personally I think the first couple of years of H: LOTS are some of the best episodes of television ever. I always want to extend that out just so I can include Kellerman in there too. I think Diamond's character meshed with the cast so well I think of him as early cast group rather than later. They did get a little soapy with Kellerman as the show went on but honestly that's show development/writer's fault. 

 

And I too have probably read Simon's book more times than any other 

Edited by callie lee 29
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MusubiMyHomie

MusubiMyHomie

On 5/12/2023 at 3:40 PM, ebk57 said:

A fun article from the NYT this week.  I think I've gifted this, so there shouldn't be a paywall.

 

When Homicide Hit Its Stride

Thank you for unlocking that oral history. I hate the NYTimes firewall. But I'm always down for behind-the-scenes stories about the making of "Three Men and Adena" and a swipe or two from Homicide alums at NYPD Blue!

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Levinson said: “This is about the homicide detectives. They’re thinking cops. There’s no gun battles

Oh, really? I like how that last rule of his was broken in Season 6 with a gun battle that made the climactic mansion shootout in Beverly Hills Cop look like a Super Soaker fight.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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Another website, another arbitrary list.

Slate has a list of the best stand-alone episodes on television. Among those on the list includes the Homicide: Life On The Street episode, "Subway".

Scroll to 1997 [episodes from the shows seem to be chosen by year!], and the write up is there, if interested!

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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André Braugher was a master class in acting.

The episode where Frank has his stroke still sends chills down my spine. And his work in the episode, "The Subway", with Vincent D'Onofrio was also fantastic.

I'm in shock. Sixty-one is too young to go.

May he rest in peace.

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Jaded

Jaded

On 12/18/2023 at 5:47 PM, wknt3 said:

Some actual good news -


‘Homicide: Life on the Street’ Writer Shares Potential Streaming Update Following Andre Braugher’s Death

It shouldn't have taken someone who played a popular character on the show dying to spur the chance of this actually happening. I guess with Andre's death it provided proof in regards to how many people would like the chance to watch this show again without having to find other avenues.

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Dr.OO7

Dr.OO7

On 2/22/2023 at 4:35 PM, MusubiMyHomie said:

You want glory? Huh? Go work at ER. Homicide's fine by me."

That line was because TPTB were bitter that Homicide didn't get the covered Thursday @10PM slot that went to ER.

To this day I wonder if the show would have been a ratings hit had it not been stuck in the Friday Night Death Slot. But then again, plenty of shows have thrived in that same time frame.

I loved the movie that wrapped everything up and brought back everyone, even with the sad ending of Giardello dying from his injuries.

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Anela

Anela

19 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

That line was because TPTB were bitter that Homicide didn't get the covered Thursday @10PM slot that went to ER.

To this day I wonder if the show would have been a ratings hit had it not been stuck in the Friday Night Death Slot. But then again, plenty of shows have thrived in that same time frame.

I loved the movie that wrapped everything up and brought back everyone, even with the sad ending of Giardello dying from his injuries.

Their episode that aired during the holiday season, one year, was so depressing that I wondered why I was watching it.  It was my favourite show at the time, but it was heavy.  

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MusubiMyHomie

MusubiMyHomie

On 5/11/2024 at 6:30 PM, Dr.OO7 said:

That line was because TPTB were bitter that Homicide didn't get the covered Thursday @10PM slot that went to ER.

To this day I wonder if the show would have been a ratings hit had it not been stuck in the Friday Night Death Slot. But then again, plenty of shows have thrived in that same time frame.

I loved the movie that wrapped everything up and brought back everyone, even with the sad ending of Giardello dying from his injuries.

You're right that the line reflected the behind-the-scenes resentment over ER getting L.A. Law's time slot. I remember reading in 1994 about how Homicide did well in the ratings when it temporarily replaced L.A. Law.

I don't want to think about how Homicide would have been more popular had it stayed on the Thursday night schedule. Because then it makes me imagine how an immensely popular Homicide would have resulted in NBC allowing Tom Fontana total creative control. And then that makes me wonder if Seasons 5 to 7 would have been better than the Seasons 5 to 7 we got. Homicide became a different show—it was still better than other hour-long dramas, but this wasn't the Homicide that wowed me in its first four seasons—when it clearly started following NBC network execs' notes, like when it replaced the excellent opening title sequence by Mark Pellington, the director of Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" video, with Kyle Cooper's terrible ripoff of the X-Files opening titles (it's definitely Cooper's worst work as an otherwise inventive title designer). One of the things I liked about the flawed reunion movie was that it restored Pellington's title sequence.

The character of Falsone just always came off to me as Homicide's attempt to attract NYPD Blue viewers by aping NYPD Blue's most sentimental or romantic storylines, and I wonder if he would have never existed had Homicide been a phenomenon like NYPD Blue and ER.

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jah1986

jah1986

I remember another reason for that line about ER, was that a LOT of actors started on Homicide and then moved over to ER.

The final seasons really were not up to the same standard as the first 4. I think I just rolled my eyes whenever I saw Michael Michelle on my screen.

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MusubiMyHomie

MusubiMyHomie

6 hours ago, jah1986 said:

a LOT of actors started on Homicide and then moved over to ER.

Really? The only example of "someone choosing ER over Homicide" I can think of is Julianna Margulies, whom I first saw in Homicide's second season before she had her breakout role on ER. Are there other examples?

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jah1986

jah1986

The two that stand out are Juliana Margulies and Gloria Reuben, I think Mekhi Pfifer as well. Maybe not a ton, but it just felt like it. The guest stars on this show were just insane, how good they were.

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Palimelon

Palimelon

Quote

That line was because TPTB were bitter that Homicide didn't get the covered Thursday @10PM slot that went to ER.

I think it was just good natured ribbing over being bitter.

Quote

when it clearly started following NBC network execs' notes

That was happening long before season 5...as one example, them wanting the show to drop Steve Crosetti, which granted, the miscommunication of it all contributed to that as well, but still, NBC was exerting it's influence in the early days as well.

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when it replaced the excellent opening title sequence by Mark Pellington, the director of Pearl Jam's "Jeremy" video, with Kyle Cooper's terrible ripoff of the X-Files opening titles

I never felt a huge difference. Still the same music, mostly, just with more color and the actor's names now appearing next to their face shots.

Quote

I remember another reason for that line about ER, was that a LOT of actors started on Homicide and then moved over to ER.

As other pointed out, not that many. But then again the show had so many gust stars that you could probably apply that line of thinking to other shows as well (Lisa Gay Hamilton and Steve Harris first guested on this show and then showed up The Practice).

Personally I liked the show throughout it's run, even yes, season 7 (I thought Michael Michelle was all right on this show). The first 3 seasons do have a different vibe for, but it was usually enjoyable throughout it's run.

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Fellaway

Fellaway

Kyle Secor on Working with Andre Braugher, L&O Crossovers and More

Quote

“It was an amazing experience for almost the entire seven years,” Secor tells TV Insider. “What stands out mostly is the freedom we were given as actors to lead the action rather than have to correspond to a camera setting, the way that you collaborated with the writers creating the character, and just working with all the different personalities and the amazing talents that were there on a daily basis, from Andre down to the day players who were just Baltimore locals.”

Secor, who went on to appear in Veronica Mars and play the first gentleman to Geena Davis’ president in Commander in Chief, has been publishing his reminiscences on Substack, and along with another former castmate, Reed Diamond, plans a “rewatch podcast” to take a deep dive into the show that TV Guide Magazine called “the best police series ever produced by American television” in a 1996 cover story.

 

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jah1986

jah1986

So I convinced my mom to watch the first episode with me. My dad and I watched this show together and we loved it. I wondered if it would hold up after all these years, and it does! Mom found the dialogue hard to follow, but I think with close captioning and the pause button she may be willing to watch some more.

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arachne

arachne

Watched the first episode, "Gone for Goode" last night. I don't binge as a rule, but it will be fun to experience this all over again (though I may skip most of Season 7.)

I was talking back to the TV a lot. When the phone rang at the end of the show, I shouted to Bayliss, "No, don't pick that up! You'll be sorry!" 

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ajsnaves

ajsnaves

As a criminal defense attorney, I tend to avoid cop/lawyer shows. I used to love Law & Order, but can’t watch anymore without yelling “OBJECTION!” at the screen. Homicide is one of the few I’ve grandfathered in, because it is so good. 
 

I rewatched the first episode for the first time in several years, and one thing jumped out.  Everyone smoking everywhere. Bars, cars, in the office even. In 1993, it would seem so common and normal. 30 years later in really jumps out. And ties it to a specific era. That and Frank having to try his key on every car since there were no remote key fobs to just honk the horn. 

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DXD526

DXD526

I was shocked the other day to see in a Sex and the City episode from 2000, Carrie smoking in a restaurant. I would have thought that it was illegal by then, but I looked it up, and smoking wasn't banned in public places in NYC until 2003. So while it seems like it's always been that way, it's actually only been about 20 years in many places. 

Smoking is a big thing on Homicide. Frank is always puffing away. Same with Felton and Crosetti. Both Howard and Bayliss try to quit at one point, and aren't quiet about it!

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goldfish

goldfish

I started watching the show about halfway through the original run and caught up on reruns on court TV.  I had to check out the DVDs from the library so my wife could watch a few years ago.  We are just getting ready to for season 3 on our rewatch on Peacock.  The video quality is absolutely amazing compared to the DVDs and of course this is still the best network show ever made.  

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arachne

arachne

Still working my way thru the first season (I don't binge as a rule) and I'd forgotten what a fun character Crosetti was, particularly in his interactions with Lewis. TPTB committed a serious crime when they sacked Jon Polito. 

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