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S13.E03: Boys Will Be Boys


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10 hours ago, janiema said:

Teresa may not be my favorite housewife but she is far more interesting than her brother and sister-in-law. If either of the new HW’s works out it’s time the Degorga Joe and Melissa.

This is similar to what I think as well. I do not particularly care for Teresa, but I probably would not watch this show without her. For some strange reason I do tend to root for Teresa over the Gorgas. I am so tired of the Gorga/Teresa feud. 

 

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The Gorga's existence on RHONJ has been to push the family feud.  They have nothing else and they know it with their fake storylines. 

There's Melissa the pop star, writer, looking for her long lost sister, having another baby, the restaurant, the garbage truck business.  She even pushed the sex talk with Antoina, that no teenager wants on camera.  She was clearly uncomfortable and embarrassed.

They're all about playing the put upon victims.  But he is the biggest drama queen and pot stirrer.  And she is only a HW because of marriage.

Edited by twilightzone
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On 2/21/2023 at 10:04 PM, QQQQ said:

I don't get why Melissa's family was supposed to be invited to Teresa's wedding. Melissa's wasn't in the wedding. With only a few hundred people invited, if family of in-laws have to be invited, that had the potential of taking up a lot of space on the guest list. I mean, obviously Teresa invited Ramona so who knows how the guest list was developed but eh... whatevs.

Hmm... I'm torn on this issue. In my world, right, I would never expect the relatives of a spouse-in-law to be invited to a wedding. And it would be completely absurd if someone got butthurt that they were left out. But, I'm not Italian and I don't know what's the norm in their culture. It does sound like, from what Joe Gorga said, that spouse's close relatives have been invited to weddings in that family in the past. So, I don't know. Then there's the fact that Ramona Singer and brunette-with-fertility-issues-who-has-only-met-Teresa-once were invited. And I feel like that could go either way. On one hand, to include them and to exclude family members who might traditionally be invited seems like a snub. On the other hand, it's a "Bravo Wedding" and they are "Bravo people," so their inclusion makes more sense.

Am I overthinking this ridiculous reality show? Yes.

If I had to guess, though, I'd say it's a little of column A and column B. I.e. Teresa probably knew it would be an expectation to invite Melissa's family but didn't do it deliberately. AND Melissa and Joe are grasping for storylines and are on the hunt for sources of outrage.    

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19 hours ago, kassa said:

All I get from Louie is that he's one of those guys that love bomb a woman and separate her from family and friends, enveloping her completely into his world at the expense of her own, egging on her every grievance, making himself her salvation. We know how those relationships end up. 

I think Joe Gorga IS actually over it at last (trailing Melissa, who has been over it for a while). I find the whole Jersey Italian-American family dynamic (as portrayed on this show, but not unfamiliar to me from life) such a contrast from my Irish-American Boston family dynamic. Family members stop speaking... and nobody mentions it, EVER, let alone makes it the centerpiece of group interactions. Eventually at a wedding or funeral they will speak, pick up as if it never happened, and no one will ever refer to it again.   

Don't like Dolores' new guy, especially since it seems his presence is focusing even MORE attention on Frank instead of less.  And who exactly is the market for this calendar? Is she counting on each model ordering a dozen for his friends/family?

New blonde lady is exhausting. I like Jackie -- as close a housewife to me as there has been, except maybe Eileen from BH, in terms of reacting like a normal person in this weirdness.  I'm also no fashion plate - I don't really care about clothes. But that doesn't mean I don't know clothes out of hamper when I see them.

Jennifer is going through some stuff this season, clearly. I've never been crazy about Bill since we saw him drunk (when I see somebody ugly drunk, I can't ever go back to respecting them) but he seems genuinely pained about shooting with her, as if they called the marriage off long before filming but are having to relive the breakup for a storyline.  And the whole kids/housekeeping/$ thing - she enjoys encouraging behavior that aggravates him, even if it makes her look bad and isn't good for the kids. I hope in the divorce he withdraws permission to film them. I know he initially permitted it which would normally probably override later objections, but I think between the first daughter's bullying and the way the other one is acting now, he can make a strong case that he is seeing the effect on his children and even if the kids want to film, they will regret having these scenes out in the world for the rest of their lives. 

Did Bill and Jennifer split?

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did louis have his daughters (s) - if he has any - and/or his sisters in the wedding?

If he had married sisters who were part of the wedding - did he also invite the in-laws, to follow the Italian guest list rule, that the men were jabbering over ?

And back to Melissa's family - inviting them means 6 people, as I would think that is the two sisters and mom - each having a plus 1.  And does this family invite tradition also include the kids (ie nieces and nephews to melissa) ??

Joey might have to let go of the point that Melissa's family was there when his parents were ill, convalescing and ultimately passed. While that is admirable - that doesn't really secure an invite to Tre's wedding.

Edited by sATL
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I LOVED the scene with Danielle (one of the two new cast members) with her daughter Valentina's art display. She nailed Mondrian, Kandinsky ?and Pollack.

I think I am going to like Danielle. Nice addition to the cast. Real real Jersey and Staten Island ! She is a character !

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bossa Nova said:

I LOVED the scene with Danielle (one of the two new cast members) with her daughter Valentina's art display. She nailed Mondrian, Kandinsky ?and Pollack.

I think I am going to like Danielle. Nice addition to the cast. Real real Jersey and Staten Island ! She is a character !

 

 

did they say what is her husband's or her claim to their fortune ? Most of the housewives tend to brag their husbands do whatever, which is why they can be a  "housewife".

Is Danielle the one who lives in a typical suburban neighborhood as opposed to  a mansion away from everyone ?

Edited by sATL
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4 hours ago, Bossa Nova said:

I LOVED the scene with Danielle (one of the two new cast members) with her daughter Valentina's art display. She nailed Mondrian, Kandinsky ?and Pollack.

I think I am going to like Danielle. Nice addition to the cast. Real real Jersey and Staten Island ! She is a character !

 

 

I (begrudgingly) really liked that scene too. And this defies all logic! After so many seasons of viewing RHW I am pretty jaded about try-hard new cast members and their packaged, cutesy kids and yet... I found that scene cute and appealing! I'm like Delores Catania melting under the spell of a new man! Sue me! 

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9 hours ago, sATL said:

did louis have his daughters (s) - if he has any - and/or his sisters in the wedding?

If he had married sisters who were part of the wedding - did he also invite the in-laws, to follow the Italian guest list rule, that the men were jabbering over ?

And back to Melissa's family - inviting them means 6 people, as I would think that is the two sisters and mom - each having a plus 1.  And does this family invite tradition also include the kids (ie nieces and nephews to melissa) ??

Joey might have to let go of the point that Melissa's family was there when his parents were ill, convalescing and ultimately passed. While that is admirable - that doesn't really secure an invite to Tre's wedding.

Melissa has two sisters who are married with kids, and her mother. Those were never friendly to her, in fact, they attacked her every time they were on the show, starting with the first Gorga scene (Gino's Christening). I wouldn't invite them. 

Louie has two sons. I believe they were at the wedding along his two sisters, but one son lives with him and Teresa, and his sisters and Teresa like each other. 

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7 hours ago, Bossa Nova said:

I LOVED the scene with Danielle (one of the two new cast members) with her daughter Valentina's art display. She nailed Mondrian, Kandinsky ?and Pollack.

I think I am going to like Danielle. Nice addition to the cast. Real real Jersey and Staten Island ! She is a character !

 

 

I liked the scene too. Valentina's art, and pronunciation were perfect. Not something that one sees often on a HW show. 

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35 minutes ago, ZettaK said:

Melissa has two sisters who are married with kids, and her mother. Those were never friendly to her, in fact, they attacked her every time they were on the show, starting with the first Gorga scene (Gino's Christening). I wouldn't invite them. 

Louie has two sons. I believe they were at the wedding along his two sisters, but one son lives with him and Teresa, and his sisters and Teresa like each other. 

As much as I despise both Tre and the Gorgas, it's Tre's wedding. She is free to invite or not invite whomever she pleases. I don't get why Melissa's extended family would be included, especially given the tenuous relationship between Melissa and Tre. 

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23 hours ago, chlban said:

Did Bill and Jennifer split?

Not that I know of. But judging from what's aired and what's shown in the previews, that sure isn't a marriage I'd consider "together." 

 

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I also root for Teresa over her brother and wife. All they do is talk about her. 
I also like new Danielle although I hope her brother doesn’t come on to feud. It’s a bonus that she’s ousted stupid disgusting gross asshole Jackie!

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1 hour ago, Chatty Cake said:

I also root for Teresa over her brother and wife. All they do is talk about her. 
I also like new Danielle although I hope her brother doesn’t come on to feud. It’s a bonus that she’s ousted stupid disgusting gross asshole Jackie!

I actively root against all of them.

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On 2/21/2023 at 11:26 PM, funnygirl said:

And that's the crux of it, isn't it? Joe Gorge has major daddy issues. It's why him and Juicy Joe never got along. Teresa's parents loved Juicy Joe, he would always show up for them and they had a good time together. Joe Gorga mortgaged his parents house for money to pay for his own stuff and he didn't come around a lot. He went off to live his own life and would show up when convenient, much like he does now when only showing up for Teresa's family when the cameras are around. 

Joe Gorga can spin it however he wants, and maybe some could find it tacky that the two eldest Guidice girls are speaking up, but you can't expect those young women to sit back and let lies be told on their family and their mother. Those girls went through the experience, too. Are their feelings not valid? 

And don't get me started on the absolute stupidity of making a scene over Teresa not inviting his in-laws. They are not Teresa's family, they aren't even her friends. And if I remember correctly, they talked shit on Teresa a time or two, too. Why can't Teresa invite who she wants to her wedding? Joe and Melissa are all about the camera time by any means necessary. Except for when they tried to pull a flex by choosing not to go to Teresa's wedding. That's on them. Why are they still mad about it? 

Eh, Melissa wants to go to the wedding and wear something barely there outrageous so people will look at her.  Personally, I find her looks average. I’ve seen prettier in Shop Rite, lol.  She’s average at best.

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On 2/23/2023 at 2:43 PM, luckyroll3 said:

Jennifer: I'm the MOST self-reflective person out of all these ladies!!!!

Bill: 

idk-not-me.gif

 

What is this face he's making. Is he actually laying the eggs or have some of them gone bad?

Whilst trying to suck in a gut. Thank goodness for that basket. Less pain on the eyes. 

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On 2/22/2023 at 7:48 AM, Mr. Miner said:

I think he's a scumbag and I hope he and his scumbag wife live happily ever after in their little fart bubble.

I doubt it, but I just hope Teresa put all her money away in her name only.  Right now he is showering her with love and she’s eating it up.  Things change, so I hope she was smart to hide what she had.  Those four girls cost lots of money .. college and all.  I read somewhere Melissa’s daughter got into Penn State.  Nice.

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I can understand why Danielle took Jackie's spot.. she's charming and I loved her family scenes... though I'm intrigued to get more detail as to what exactly happened between her and her brother.. and sister in law... and how that differs from the Teresa/Joe/Melissa situation.

Jennifer was tolerable on her own away from the other women.. maybe she should be demoted to friend of for next season.  And maybe her hubby wouldn't have to be a peace maker if he wasn't married to someone toxic and evil such as herself.  And if she truly had self awareness, she would understand that her eldest daughter is probably being bullied by someone just like her.

It was refreshing that the men were having issues while the women were off on their own.  I wish all the franchises were do this (an episode where the women aren't together... but in their own lives individually).

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On 2/24/2023 at 2:00 PM, janiema said:

Last night I watched the beginning of Season 3 (the season Joe and Melissa were introduced) which aired in 2011, 12 years ago. They started immediately with an attack on Teresa and Juicy. Cracks were already starting to show in the Guidice situation (maritally, financially and legally). In those years Little Joe and Melissa have really had no other story line. Granted that they have tried - fake singing career, desire for pregnancy, ridiculous long lost missing half sister, Joe putting down Melissa for wanting to work outside the home. The last one may have been real since they were willing to uproot Antonia during sensitive years of high school in order to promote the football careers of her younger brothers. Antonia may have the last laugh. I read recently that she has been accepted to Penn State which is a good school as are Rutgers and University of Michigan for Gia and Gabriella. Antonia may graduate from college with a good degree. Hopefully, her brothers will escape from high school without concussions.

Teresa may not be my favorite housewife but she is far more interesting than her brother and sister-in-law. If either of the new HW’s works out it’s time the Degorga Joe and Melissa.

Penn State is a tier 4 university like Rutgers, University of Michigan is a tier 2 university. Tier 1 has only a few universities (the most elite).

Edited by ZettaK
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Yes, U Michigan is way better than Rutgers and Penn State- although honestly they are very respectable schools.

(also I am a little familiar with Rutgers and at least as of a few years ago, there were different colleges within. No one really distingusihes it outside, but some are better than others. I imageine Penn State may be the same way).

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14 hours ago, ZettaK said:

Penn State is a tier 4 university like Rutgers, University of Michigan is a tier 2 university. Tier 1 has only a few universities (the most elite).

If Teresa & Joe/Melissa are preening over school ranking - they're wasting their time.  Many schools, even very top ivy league schools, are shunning the ranking systems these days.  The schools shift up & down because the measures are unreliable & changeable year over year. 

Moreover, if you're LAST or bottom of your class at Yale (tier 1) & studied art history, that's not preferable to employers looking for business majors who are FIRST or top of their class at decent schools (other tiers.)  And if hired at an employer who ONLY wants bragging rights to first tier graduates, good luck trying to hack it there - the moment your performance is less than lst tier, you'll be swapped out for another lst tier graduate. 

None of the spawn of Teresa or Joe/Melissa seem destined to be brain surgeons. The ultimate goal is employability or business opportunity. If Rutgers & Penn State have alumni at firms or better recognized in NY or CA (or wherever the kids want to work, assuming they're not staying in MI or NJ after graduation) they could have better employment chances than if they went to U of MI - which some NY or CA employers tend to think of as a flyover state & not tier 2 (though it may be currently - & maybe wasn't when the employers last checked the rankings back in their day.)  Demonstratable knowledge, personality, attention to detail, presentability to clients - this will matter. School rankings - unless you're at the top of a name school - not so much.

It's all subjective, relative to their success at their chosen schools & the majors they choose. Street-smart & mouthy doesn't equate to book-smart.  Shy & retiring won't cut it in certain fields. They will soon see what it's like to compete with other smart kids. Certain majors are interesting but don't equate to employability.  We'll see what happens. Good luck to them all. 

Edited by realityplease
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36 minutes ago, realityplease said:

None of the spawn of Teresa or Joe/Melissa seem destined to be brain surgeons. The ultimate goal is employability or business opportunity. If Rutgers & Penn State have alumni at or are better recognized in NY or CA (or wherever the kids want to work, assuming they're not staying in MI or NJ after graduation) they'll have better employment chances than if they went to Michigan - which some NY or CA employers tend to think of as a flyover state & not tier 2 (though it currently may be currently - & maybe wasn't when the employers last checked the rankings back in their day.)  Demonstratable knowledge, personality, attention to detail, presentability to clients - this will matter. School rankings - unless you're at the top of a name school - not so much.

Seriously? Michigan is one of the top public universities in the country...which, trust me, pains me to say as a Michigan State alum. To say that it isn't prestigious because it's located in the midwest is ridiculous. Of all the things to argue over, this one takes the cake...

I, for one, am glad to see the NJ housewives encouraging their kids toward higher education vs. trying to be celebrities/influencers.

Gabriella's rumored to be pursuing a business degree and it appears she did her homework as both Ross (Michigan) and Kelley (Indiana, her back-up) are ranked in the Top 10. Both also have huge alumni networks at all the top financial institutions. No doubt she'll be fine. As will Antonia at Penn State.

I'm just glad to hear caveman Gorga's allowing his daughter to go away to school. I could easily seem him not valuing the benefit of a college education for women and/or wanting her to stay home & commute. 

 

 

Edited by snarts
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Watching the Never Before Scene and Luis is creeping me out more and more.

Interjecting into 5e conversation between Teresa, Gia and Gabrella and her is manipulating the situation even more.

He says he sees Joe Gorga a mile away. yea he’s scum but I see Luis 100 miles away. 
He comes across as calm with all 5e right words but in my opinion he is deliberately isolating Teresa from her family, it was happening anyway, but he is making sure that those ties are completely severed.

I recognize the subtle manipulation and gaslighting- because it is subtle (unlike the Gorga’s and the Guidices who are the opposite of subtle.

 

 

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(edited)
8 hours ago, snarts said:

Seriously? Michigan is one of the top public universities in the country...which, trust me, pains me to say as a Michigan State alum. To say that it isn't prestigious because it's located in the midwest is ridiculous. Of all the things to argue over, this one takes the cake...

 I spent my first 25 years in the Midwest.  At that time, the Univ. of Illinois was a "public ivy."  Now, not so much. Times & standards change. Except for the prestige schools such as Yale that vie for Tier 1, the rest scramble for rank & recognition. It changes yearly, some years up, some down. But mainly, except for certain highly rated & well known departments/colleges of specific schools (Business at Penn, Journalism at I-forget-where), undergrad education is not all that different. Great profs can be found anywhere, great depts anywhere, supportive alumni anywhere. And that too changes.

Didn't intend to insult any Midwesterners.  But after decades on the West Coast & years recruiting in various industries, if you ask those in many California industries to name a prestige Midwestern school, many will name Northwestern.  But not so much Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin (though very fine schools) unless there's an alumna at their firm or their kid's going there. Many don't keep up with rankings & yearly changes in rank. The rankings aren't objective & many schools are now opting out of them.  Or other factors are given more credence.  

I never said "Michigan isn't prestigious because it's located in the Midwest." It's "prestige" doesn't change based on location. But it is on the radar of more in the Midwest than to some (not ALL) on either coast who don't follow rankings. 

Frankly, I'd rather hire someone first in their class at Michigan than someone last in their class at Harvard.  But rather than judge a person based on their school's prestige (beyond Tier 1), would be more likely to consider the student's grades, experience,  major/minor, how focused or hard-working or well-rounded, use of summers (internships, etc.), how articulate, etc. etc.  Schools & their "prestige," somewhat important, but secondary. (And even more secondary in the decades after graduation & after that 1st job.) Even Tier 1 produces duds.  Even brilliant students can lack common sense, work ethic, ability to manage others, or necessary qualities for some jobs.  Just my opinion & experience - didn't mean to insult anyone.

Making no predictions on the Guidice/Gorga kids - where they get or complete their education, whether they remain in the Midwest or go elsewhere & whatever the job. Whatever they do will exceed my expectations given their parents' petty fights & blink-blink brains. 

Edited by realityplease
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(edited)

A few thoughts after a rewatch of this episode:

Louie may be a creeper master manipulator, but I loved watching him defuse and derail Joe Gorga's "BIG" moment at the guys' night out.

JG came in looking to cause a scene and possibly a fight, thereby, getting more attention and camera time for him.  He did try to cause a scene with his raising his voice, slamming his hand on the table (is table slamming/flipping hereditary in the Guidice bloodline?), and the degrading put downs he threw at Louie.  Louie wouldn't take the bait though - making himself look like the better person (in the most common sense way).  I'm not a big fan of Louie's, but I think he's got this reality show game down.  He knows what looks good and what looks bad.  Being reasonable and adultlike - looks good; being loud, obnoxious and childish - looks bad.

Joe just looked like a juvenile idiot trying to be a bully.  He's making such a fuss over the stupidest things, and he sounds even more childish by refusing to want to see/talk with Teresa.  Or - he's also playing the game and prolonging the inevitable face to face with his sister so he can work up a head of steam and come in fighting.  

As far as the Paulie/Frank Sr. bullshit - as far as I can see, Paulie doesn't fit the "mold" of who Frank Sr. thinks Dolores should be dating.  Primarily, Paul doesn't need this show, doesn't seem to need the camera time and is currently making a shit ton more money than Frank.  He is everything that Frank is not, and that bothers Frank.

Lastly - Jennifer Aydin is the most non-self-reflective person I've seen on TV recently, perhaps with the exception of Teresa Guidice.  I'll give Teresa some slack in that situation because I don't think she has any idea of how to be self-reflective or even what it means.  

Edited by njbchlover
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I have never ever seen a bigger baby than Joe Gorga in my entire life.  He wins the crown of biggest Drama Queen of all Reality shows ever on tv.  Let...it...go.  I would never have extended any invitation to him nor Melissa for the wedding nor showers.  Certainly not any family of hers either. 

Teresa should have cut them off.   I'm not a huge Tre fan either. Joe...the biggest drama queen in history on reality tv.  

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Watching this again, I gotta say Louie is gaining points with me putting that gorilla Joe G in his place using his words, not punching and calling names like Juicy/Gorga do. As he slaps the table knocking over drinks there’s Louie saying “cmon, what are you doing…” making Gorga look like a big idiot. 

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On 2/23/2023 at 1:26 PM, lightninggirl said:

. ❤️

Why are these men so red? Does no one in NJ regulate the UV settings on the tanning beds? ☀️🥵

This was filmed during the summer when it was about 3,000 degrees here daily. Since they all have pools in their yards as well as shore houses  I’d assume they were spending way too much time outside. 

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On 3/12/2023 at 8:08 PM, hottesthw said:

This was filmed during the summer when it was about 3,000 degrees here daily. Since they all have pools in their yards as well as shore houses  I’d assume they were spending way too much time outside. 

Yes, but they filmed until November (2021) last season to show the family moving to the new house, and his face was still red. The rest of the cast is not that red all the time. So it is something beyond that. 

Edited by ZettaK
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On 2/25/2023 at 3:02 PM, Bossa Nova said:

LOVED the scene with Danielle (one of the two new cast members) with her daughter Valentina's art display. She nailed Mondrian, Kandinsky ?and Pollack.

I think I am going to like Danielle. Nice addition to the cast. Real real Jersey and Staten Island ! She is a character !

 

Yep, I am just getting around to watching this shit show NOW.  Ha!  I love new Danielle!  I’ll be shallow for a moment and say she’s not really anything special to look at but her personality is so fun and over the top, while still coming across as REAL.  Loved seeing her adorable family too.  I don’t think her husband is Italian (doesn’t matter, just an observation).

Her father made me tear up when they were talking about the rift with the brother.  I have to disagree with her though about blaming the wife…her brother is the blood relative and it’s his responsibility first and foremost to preserve that family relationship.  Sometimes I think people end up blaming their spouses because they are too chicken shit to just own the fact that they don’t care to have a relationship with their family.

I laughed out loud at Jackie saying Danielle was a walking fashion don’t.  This from Jackie of all people!  She has the worst style out of all of them, and that’s really saying something.  I actually think Melissa usually looks the best and is the most appropriately dressed for things.

On 2/27/2023 at 2:00 PM, kristen111 said:

Eh, Melissa wants to go to the wedding and wear something barely there outrageous so people will look at her.  Personally, I find her looks average. I’ve seen prettier in Shop Rite, lol.  She’s average at best.

Truth.  Melissa looks great don’t get me wrong, but coming from Jersey I saw women like her all the time.  She’s nothing out of this world.  She’s got a good body and an average at best face.  I’ve seen a lot of posts to the contrary but I think her daughter is very pretty.

Amd I’m sorry but I have to talk about Marge.  Dear god her skin is pulled so tight on her face her teeth don’t even fit properly in her mouth anymore.  They look huge!  She looks like Skeletor, all I see is gigantic teeth and a bony face.

Edited by mostlylurking
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