Stolen Youth: Inside The Cult At Sarah Lawrence - General Discussion

[DanaK]

Quote

With unprecedented access, "Stolen Youth: Inside the Cult at Sarah Lawrence" excerpts striking first-hand interviews with conman Larry Ray's victims and incorporates personal audio tapes and video recordings to tell the story of his grim 10 year influence over a group of young people. The series follows the story from the cult's origins in 2010 on the Sarah Lawrence campus until its recent demise, when the last members find their own paths to survival.

Hulu 3-part docuseries that streams February 9

Trailer

 

The question I keep asking is "How?". How does something like this go on for 10 years at a college?

BTW, good old Larry was convicted of all charges recently and sentenced to 60 years. Gift article from New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/20/nyregion/sarah-lawrence-ray-sex-cult.html?unlocked_article_code=0Fur8FiOZL5a3fJH9e1KXpgQOHE9rUS-qk7bk_-Ik3286CPnfb_JT7CLPC5aPpjkWE1h1ZB2vZFR4hRls-c5gS3tlZCdOifIZ8v-WtBiebELqOOhvZmmdxIHtc_gMDmKkZbJmTxsYJ4sRS7zbrr9FbzfwoeBKlcF5_3ljpN08-kSieKEs1mUK6Kdki6ViLcnLHj0vSsBbYzyrfJRO55SEFacOWLR26qBbnrObnqG6Z4mGv7s-P2XO0mAtaRhEP0ng0ohuiPO_cwSVM4Xv75mhbOdkAGHckfOFa7JqLZ74mWWxCkP_rt3r-LRnjWeWpmCSntj7fXSEvMgL9n7k-SVFDL_pjs91Q&smid=share-url

Edited January 25, 2023 by DanaK

[bref]

I attended Sarah Lawrence for three semesters in the 1970s and still cannot get over this story. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I watched some of this but I don’t think I can continue. Too disturbing. And I watched all of The Vow. 

[Sodium Feast]

Found it much more disturbing than the Vow. Wow, it’s off the charts insanity. And these cult leaders and their “let’s document everything” ideas, really? 
I listened to a podcast with Felicia before watching and it’s such a relief to hear how far she’s recovered. A completely different person. Good for her and her family. I hope she can go back to medicine, she could really help a lot of people. 

My only question is, where’s in Talia in all this? 

[DanaK]

3 hours ago, Sodium Feast said:

Found it much more disturbing than the Vow. Wow, it’s off the charts insanity. And these cult leaders and their “let’s document everything” ideas, really? 
I listened to a podcast with Felicia before watching and it’s such a relief to hear how far she’s recovered. A completely different person. Good for her and her family. I hope she can go back to medicine, she could really help a lot of people. 

My only question is, where’s in Talia in all this? 

Talia declined to participate

Variety interview with the director https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/stolen-youth-director-sarah-lawrence-cult-larry-ray-1235515106/

[Pepper Mostly]

I could barely get through this, it was so harrowing. My son is just a few years younger than these kids; couldn't stop thinking of him and his friends and what I'd do if he'd fallen into the clutches of such a monster. 

I also have questions about Talia. Claudia didn't participate either but there was video of her and her circumstances were discussed. Not a peep about Talia. And she's the one who started the whole thing. She must have a killer lawyer. 

[bilgistic]

5 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Not a peep about Talia. And she's the one who started the whole thing. She must have a killer lawyer. 

Talia didn't start it; her father did. He alone manipulated those kids, including his daughter. I can't imagine what growing up with him must've been like. I guess I'm biased because my biological father is a narcissist and pathological liar.

I couldn't get past this from the very beginning: What "successful, influential businessman" moves into his daughter's college dorm? He snowed everyone, including a man who had enough money to own a Manhattan apartment that he himself didn't live in and also waited five years to evict Larry from!

[sara416]

I have so many questions about Talia too. I get why she didn't want to participate in the documentary, but there was so much I wondered about, like where she was while all of this was happening. I know they briefly mention that she goes back to live on campus after she and her boyfriend break up, but then what? Is she ever around again? Are they still all friends? Does she know how fucked up her dad is? So....many...questions!

[peachmangosteen]

The end tag said the prosecutors listed Talia as a co-conspirator of Larry but that no charges were brought against her. I wish we knew more about her role in at all. It seemed like she just left pretty early on but then why was she originally listed as a co-conspirator?

I also feel like we didn’t really get enough on how exactly Larry was finally brought down.

Peacock also has a doc on this; has anyone watched it? I’m wondering if it goes into any more details.

[Pepper Mostly]

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Talia didn't start it; her father did. He alone manipulated those kids, including his daughter. I can't imagine what growing up with him must've been like. I guess I'm biased because my biological father is a narcissist and pathological liar

Yes, you're right,  of course. But Talia was the one who brought her dad into the house, begged her friends to give him a chance and not judge him. Its obvious she was under his spell and totally snowed. I wonder if she has regrets. She must be absolutely tormented with guilt and remorse. Unless she still buys the wacky conspiracy theories. 

[Sweet-tea]

I am stunned by this documentary. I can’t believe this happened. I don’t even have words to describe how disturbed I am by all of this. Felicia’s story especially resonated with me. She went from a brilliant, confident woman with a budding career as a psychiatrist to a confused, troubled woman who can’t discern reality from fiction. It’s truly shocking. And the other woman, Isabella, who kept defending Larry even while he was in prison and all the stories came out… the look on her face. The light had gone out of her eyes. 

I’m surprised this hasn’t been made into a dramatic series for HBO or Netflix. It seems like they’d be all over it. The poor parents who lost their children even though they were still alive. The video of the guys being abused. It was almost more than I could bear. I had to fast-forward through one of them. The video of all the young, healthy and vibrant college kids who turned into shells with dark circles under their eyes, twitching and barely able to function. Just… wow. This Larry guy was a monster. 

Why did Sarah Lawrence let someone’s Dad move into the dorms with the students? That seems so wrong. Were they ever sued?

I’ve heard about manipulation and cults in large groups of people, like the Jim Jones story. They were isolated at a compound. But this happened at a COLLEGE with a handful of students! How could this happen without anyone noticing? Bless the two students who knew something was wrong and tried to stop it. 

I’m still trying to process this. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[peachmangosteen]

14 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

Why did Sarah Lawrence let someone’s Dad move into the dorms with the students? That seems so wrong. Were they ever sued?

There's a statement from them at the end, some bullshit about how they investigated and never found evidence of a father living on campus but that they now understand that it was true or something. 

[Sweet-tea]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

There's a statement from them at the end, some bullshit about how they investigated and never found evidence of a father living on campus but that they now understand that it was true or something. 

Yes. I just finished watching. It sounded like a CYA statement from Sarah Lawrence.

Felicia's reunion with her mother was heartwarming. I cried. Great to see her back with her siblings and parents. 

Very sad about Isabella. It looks like she never made it out, although it didn't say what her sentence was if anything. 

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

There's a statement from them at the end, some bullshit about how they investigated and never found evidence of a father living on campus but that they now understand that it was true or something. 

Yeah, this made no sense to me at all. I couldn't figure out if the building was part of the school or off-campus apartments, but if it was part of the school, there'd be a resident advisor who would definitely hear about a 50-YEAR-OLD MAN living in the dorms.

My freshman-year suitemate's boyfriend who didn't attend our college was constantly at our place. He got tickets for illegal parking (not having a student or visitor tag) all the time, so the school knew he was there. Granted, this was way back in 1993-1994.

[SlovakPrincess]

Holy hell.  At least Larry will never be free again.  But holy hell ...

When the Rosario family reunited ... 😭.  Thank God this family has been able to start to heal.  Still so heartbreaking that Larry deliberately destroyed an entire family for years, and destroyed Felicia's career and her mind (though she has bounced back admirably, and I have high hopes she'll find a way to rebuild her medical career).  I hope someday Santos will finish college, too (if that's what he wants).     

I totally understand Claudia not wanting to appear in the documentary, but I'm glad we at least had some information that she reconnected with friends and family.  I hope she's doing well and is also rebuilding her life!

Isabella was really still so entrenched in the brainwashing during filming.  At some point I think it's really going to hit her as to what she participated in (especially helping Larry victimize Claudia) and ... yikes.  

I have to assume Talia's lawyered up and was told "hell no" to cooperating with the journalists or documentary.  Granted, Larry had brainwashed her from childhood, and it was pretty hazy if / how much she was involved after graduation.

I have to call serious bullshit on that college.  The dean getting that insane email from Claudia should have been a wake up call to figure out what the hell was going on!  How do you receive a meandering, unhinged email from a student, "taking back" alleged things she said about a middle aged guy that is apparently hanging around campus and causing drama ... and not investigate more??  

[bilgistic]

3 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Isabella was really still so entrenched in the brainwashing during filming.  At some point I think it's really going to hit her as to what she participated in (especially helping Larry victimize Claudia) and ... yikes.

I have such mixed feelings about Isabella. On one hand, yes, she helped Larry victimize the others. On the other hand, she was targeted by Larry—her friend's father—at the same age as the others. She was just as brainwashed as they were...and maybe still remains under his thrall.

This is why I have problems with people saying it's fine for young women at 18 to young 20s to date much older men "because it's legal." No. It's a power imbalance because we live in a patriarchal society.

Again, I'm projecting because of being in a very abusive relationship when I was 20 with a deeply disturbed 29-year-old man. I sought out these kind of relationships with older men to fill the missing father-figure hole, and conversely, predators recognize prey.

Edited February 12, 2023 by bilgistic

[Pi237]

There’s an article in the Feb 20 People Magazine on Felicia that mentions things not shown on the series-unless I missed them….that Larry would beat her until she was black and blue, forced them to sleep with strangers and make sex tapes which he would use to blackmail money out of their parents (I wondered why they’d give so much money to him. That makes more sense than they ‘damaged his property’) He would make her sleep on the porch while working for weeks planting sod…she tried to kill herself with pills in the apartment and he caught her and dragged her out by her hair and told Isabella-“Don’t let this bitch kill herself again”  It was even worse than the Stolen Youth series presented. Crazy to me how anyone can fall for this. As soon as he started with his Marines stuff, I’d have known he was bullshit because no one I know who served brags about it like that. He sounded on the tapes like a typical mansplaining douchebag to me But I guess we all think it could never happen to us.  Still, every time one of these guys are exposed, Im always left confused, like “Him!?! Really???”

[Sweet-tea]

Wow. I want to read that article. I’m not surprised there was more abuse than shown. What I did see was horrific and hard to watch. I had to look away from a lot of it, especially when Felicia was screaming “I love you Larry” while he was berating and beating her. It was sickening. And she looked like a shell of herself. Those photos were startling, and it wasn’t just her hair. Her face was gray and gaunt and her eyes looked dead. It’s so sad to me that she was on the cusp of a great career as a psychiatrist, was healthy and happy with lots of friends… appeared to be thriving, and this maniac stole it all from her. 

The scene of Felicia and Isabella living together and defending Larry was creepy. Felicia seemed manic with the “honey-bunny” stuff, and Isabella’s flat effect was a startling contrast. 

I wish they had shown more about Dan’s recovery. 

I’m amazed this happened. When I lived in the dorms at SDSU many years ago, we couldn’t even have a visitor for more than a day or two. They RAs were all over it if someone was staying with us. Yet at SL, this 50 year-old ex-con was staying with these college students and no one did anything! I’m surprised some of the parents aren’t suing the college. 

What is it about Raven that she was able to realize this guy was nuts, yet none of the others except the guy (can’t remember his name) did the same? Was it something about their childhood, trauma they endured that made them more vulnerable? They all had insecurities, but none of them struck me as making them so susceptible to Larry’s influence. Did it become group think after a few of them succumbed to him? My inner psychologist wants to know what the heck happened. 

Found this update on Isabella:

In September 2022, Pollok pleaded guilty to a single charge of conspiracy to launder money. 

Pollok now faces a maximum five-year sentence and a maximum fine of $250,000, or twice the financial gain of her conspiracy. She is scheduled to be sentenced on February 22, 2023. 

I’d like to know details about what Isabella actually did. The documentary skimmed over it. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[SlovakPrincess]

3 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

What is it about Raven that she was able to realize this guy was nuts, yet none of the others except the guy (can’t remember his name) did the same? Was it something about their childhood, trauma they endured that made them more vulnerable? They all had insecurities, but none of them struck me as making them so susceptible to Larry’s influence. Did it become group think after a few of them succumbed to him? My inner psychologist wants to know what the heck happened. 

...

I’d like to know details about what Isabella actually did. The documentary skimmed over it. 

It seemed like there were four friends in the group (Raven, Juli Anna, Gabe and Max) that mostly escaped Larry's focus.  Larry zero-ed in on the people who were particularly vulnerable at that point (Isabella - lonely; Santos and Claudia - had a history of depression already; Dan - questioning his sexuality; and later, Felicia and Yalitza - school / career stress) ... and then started to isolate them from the others.  Then he got them in the apartment, limiting their sleep with all night discussions that turned into interrogation sessions, giving them adderall and keeping them in a state of constant busywork and "self improvement" -- typical cult leader shit designed to make it so victims are exhausted and don't have a moment to stop and think clearly.    

What's scary is it seems like it could have happened to anyone if Larry caught them at just the right moment.  Felicia was actually doing great in life, but was stressed out and sleep deprived from starting her residency.    

At the very least, Isabella was picking up and keeping track of payments from Claudia, knowing Claudia was escorting to give Larry the money.  It sounds like she was also present for / possibly a co-conspirator / accomplice in Larry basically torturing Claudia to get more money and "confessions".

Edited February 13, 2023 by SlovakPrincess

[peachmangosteen]

I started to watch the doc about this on Peacock and it seems like the apartment they were all living in when Larry first showed up was actually off campus so I guess perhaps there was nothing that the school could really do.

[Sweet-tea]

Oh, I didn't realize this. Thanks for the info. Can you link to the other documentary?

[Pi237]

I watched the peacock one too. That off campus apartment wasn’t even his. He asked to stay on a friends couch for a short while. The friend Traveled a lot so didn’t mind. Then, Larry kept bringing more and more kids in, took over and did crappy renovations, etc. took the guy 6 years to get him out. 3 to get an eviction and 2-3 more to get someone to uphold the eviction.  Just crazy! 

[Sweet-tea]

 

Edited to add statement from SL that was shown at the end and excerpts from People article. 

In response to a request for comment on Larry Ray’s presence on campus, Sarah Lawrence College replied: 

“… While, after thorough investigation, the College uncovered no reports or complaints from 2010 that Ray was living or sleeping in his daughter’s campus residence, the subsequent accounts of former students indicate that he was.”

So the school confirmed Larry was living on campus for a period in 2010. He then moved into the NYC apt and several of the students joined him there. 

I also went back and rewatched the first part of E1. Talia and the rest of them were living in the Slonim Woods dorm on campus in their sophomore year in the fall of 2010. Talia’s dad, Larry, got out of prison and moved into the dorm with them. 

Excerpts from People:

Ray was the father of a Sarah Lawrence student who moved into his daughter's dorm room in 2010 and eventually sexually, psychologically and physically abused her schoolmates and other young people. The abuse began at Sarah Lawrence, a prestigious liberal arts college just outside of New York City when Ray began giving "therapy sessions" to his daughter's roommates, purporting to "help them with psychological problems," an indictment filed against him in 2020 said.

The abuse didn't just take place at the college. It continued at Ray's Upper East Side apartment in Manhattan, where several students moved in with him in 2011 — presenting himself as a father figure, a psychologist and a spiritual advisor combined.

The leadership at SL should’ve known there was a 50 year-old male, ex-con, living in the dorms with students. No excuse. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[peachmangosteen]

Ah, OK. I thought it sounded like Slonim Woods was off campus. Sarah Lawrence should be sued. Although, maybe no one actually reported it. I can't remember if Raven or any of the others that didn't get taken in mentioned telling any authority at SL.

[marny]

The original article in New York Magazine that led to the investigation of Larry talked to the Sarah Lawrence admin. The quote said that the school was aware of his presence but responded with something like “We can’t prevent a father of a student from visiting his daughter.”  So either they didn’t know the extent of his presence or they didn’t care. 

[Sweet-tea]

Lame response by the SL. He wasn’t visiting; he was living there. And colleges can certainly have rules on how long “visitors” can stay. 

[jmonique]

The Peacock documentary about this is "Sex, Lies and the College Cult." This one goes more into how Larry berated and destroyed Claudia, and how she eventually escaped:

https://www.peacocktv.com/watch/asset/movies/sex-lies-and-the-college-cult/f45c2853-4230-3910-aa53-51ac37f5a788

[Johnny Dollar]

What’s particularly disturbing about this story is how quickly Larry was able to manipulate and control these kids. And how Felicia said it was “love at first sight” when she met him. I feel so bad for the Rosario parents to lose three children like that.

And I call bullshit on the college not knowing what was going on. In the article in New York magazine that exposed this creep, one of the deans makes a comment at their graduation about how he’s “glad that he won’t be seeing this guy around campus anymore.”  The article also said that the Slomin Woods house was in the middle of the campus  

Even after they graduated in 2013, some of these kids were still under his control for another six years  

I understand that cops are hesitant to get involved when parents want them to intervene in situations dealing with their legal adult children, but those recordings looked like literal hostage videos.  Aren’t kidnapping and psychological abuse crimes anymore?  How sad that nothing was done until the original article came out.  I’m not surprised that Larry and his massive ego had no problem being interviewed for the piece.

Everyone should have a friend like Raven.

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Johnny Dollar

[Nancybeth]

I just finished reading Dan's book, "Slonim 9" and it's even worse than what's portrayed in the documentary. I am curious about how he included so many verbatim conversations with Larry -- but it seems like a lot of things were recorded so maybe he somehow got the recordings? 

[Sweet-tea]

16 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

I just finished reading Dan's book, "Slonim 9" and it's even worse than what's portrayed in the documentary. I am curious about how he included so many verbatim conversations with Larry -- but it seems like a lot of things were recorded so maybe he somehow got the recordings? 

I was wondering if the book was worth reading. Afraid I’ll get upset as the documentary really got to me. 

[charmed1]

I can remember religious cults getting a hold of people I knew during college, so I feel badly for these students. His obsession with Kerik was amazing. It seemed like he was the only person he truly feared. Probably because Kerik is as much of a lying ex-con fraud as he is. I would love to watch Larry and Keith Raniere share a prison cell where they eventually bullshit each other to death.

[MaggieG]

Felicia really got to me. A child of immigrant parents who manages to get a full ride to Harvard and Columbia Medical school (which wow, props to her) somehow got taken in by this freaking guy. Those videos were very hard to watch. 

[Armchair Critic]

I got the feeling that Felecia was scared of Isabella, she seemed nervous around her to say the right thing. Blaming everything on being poisoned and Bernard Kerik. Wonder if it was Isabella who was keeping the refrigerator locked when it was just her and Felecia, she seemed to be Larry's enforcer.

Okay, I am still watching the last episode and Felecia said that she shared the bed with Isabella and Larry, glad she is coming out of it.

Isabella's mother sounds like she is drugged up.

I wonder if Santos feels any guilt for getting his sisters involved with Larry? 

Those interrogations were hard to watch.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Armchair Critic

[AstridM]

I think Isabella is being sentenced today. 

[AstridM]

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-lawrence-ray-isabella-pollok-sarah-lawrence-sex-cult-20230222-tel7zdyz6bfc7ocz7u3ahisnti-story.html

[marny]

While I definitely agree that Isabella was a victim too— I wonder if the reason her punishment was so severe was that she never actually renounced Larry herself. There was a letter (probably drafted by her attorneys) where she blamed him, but I never heard that she personally made any kind of statement to the court against him. She didn’t testify against him, which I’m sure hurt her case. So while it’s clear she was severely damaged by him, it’s hard to tell how remorseful she actually was once he was removed from her life. It reminded me of the Nexium cult where several members continue to support Keith Raniere while he rots in prison. 

[SlovakPrincess]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:07 AM, marny said:

While I definitely agree that Isabella was a victim too— I wonder if the reason her punishment was so severe was that she never actually renounced Larry herself. There was a letter (probably drafted by her attorneys) where she blamed him, but I never heard that she personally made any kind of statement to the court against him. She didn’t testify against him, which I’m sure hurt her case. So while it’s clear she was severely damaged by him, it’s hard to tell how remorseful she actually was once he was removed from her life. It reminded me of the Nexium cult where several members continue to support Keith Raniere while he rots in prison. 

Just based on that article, it seems the judge believed Isabella behaved cruelly and sadistically toward Claudia, and didn't own up to that or prove that Larry forced her to do all of those things.  And she didn't help with the investigation against Larry.  

I can sort of see that from the documentary -- Isabella's "favored status" with Larry was achieved by helping him keep the others "in line," to a certain extent.  Felicia was under investigation at first, too, but she probably wasn't charged because she resisted Larry's demands to help "interrogate" Claudia and create blackmail websites on the others.  Sympathy for Isabella's manipulation by Larry is tempered by the fact that she crossed lines the other victims wouldn't.   

[patty1h]

Just finished the first episode and all I could do is roll my eyes listening to Santos apologizing for damaging imaginary items and offering to pay for them.  There is the "they were brainwashed" explanation... holy crap, can people be so desperate?    

No sympathy - I view these people on the same level I see the fools on Dr Phil who give their life savings to Nigerians.   

Edited March 5, 2023 by patty1h

[truthaboutluv]

On 2/12/2023 at 6:36 PM, Pi237 said:

As soon as he started with his Marines stuff, I’d have known he was bullshit because no one I know who served brags about it like that. He sounded on the tapes like a typical mansplaining douchebag to me But I guess we all think it could never happen to us.  Still, every time one of these guys are exposed, Im always left confused, like “Him!?! Really???

 

On 2/12/2023 at 7:28 PM, Sweet-tea said:

What is it about Raven that she was able to realize this guy was nuts, yet none of the others except the guy (can’t remember his name) did the same? Was it something about their childhood, trauma they endured that made them more vulnerable?

The bolded is definitely the likely answer. As someone noted above, we know Santos and Claudia had both dealt with some level of depression before ever meeting Larry, Dan was confused about his sexuality and Isabella, the most vulnerable that he targeted first, was clearly abused prior to meeting Larry.

I think that was strongly hinted with her mom pretty much owning that she wasn’t always the best parent at times when Isabella was younger, due to her struggling with addiction. So my guess is Isabella was likely a victim of child abuse, possibly sexual abuse, which added to the closed-off, insecure, vulnerable personality that Larry, a master manipulator, quickly zeroed in on and proceeded to completely snow. 

Raven on the other hand, my guess, was a typical college kid who sure maybe had some normal college angst but for the most part knew exactly who she was, was confident in who she was and probably also had a normal, happy upbringing. She also seemed to be a bit of a cynic as well, which probably contributed to her, "this guy is so full of shit and creepy asf to boot" attitude.

The other students who weren't snowed by Larry appeared to be the types who had their own stuff going on and lives outside the circle of friends in the house. That likely added to their being able to keep a healthy distance from Larry but at the same time not notice the obvious glaring red flags like Raven did, until it was too late. It was a bit of that youthful, apathetic attitude of, "yeah dude's a bit weird but whatever." 

 

On 2/13/2023 at 9:26 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I started to watch the doc about this on Peacock and it seems like the apartment they were all living in when Larry first showed up was actually off campus so I guess perhaps there was nothing that the school could really do.

The impression I got from the first episode is that they were staying in an off-campus house that was still connected to the university. Like many universities offer the dorms but there are "off-campus" apartments and houses that are still technically associated with the university but operates like your own space versus a dorm room. And those definitely don't have RAs checking up on the residents. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by truthaboutluv

[truthaboutluv]

I forgot to mention that I'm glad to see others were curious about Talia's involvement or lack thereof. That was the one element I spent all of the documentary very confused by. Because going off the episodes, it appeared as if this girl brought her creepy, manipulative, sociopathic father around her friends, but then when shit got really bad, she up and left to live her life. 

Again that may not have been exactly what happened but I just thought it was odd that outside of a few videos where she seemed to be at the NYC apartment, she was mostly gone. Santos says she moved back on campus after they split. So there he was right in the thick of the crazy that is led by her father but she moved back on campus. 

She didn't appear to be present when they went to the New Jersey house and there was the board thing where the producers would add a name or remove a name as Larry drew someone new into his little cult and later when some of them left. And I feel like Talia's name was mostly absent. And we know she wasn't present at the house when the FBI raided - just Isabella and Felicia. 

I guess I can see why no formal charges were brought against her if there is no solid evidence of her active involvement in harming others like Isabella, for example. But I'm wondering if somehow she removed herself from the insanity but turned a blind eye as it got awful because it was her father. So in other words, she wasn't actively involved in the cult and all the madness but very much knew it was happening and did nothing to try and stop it. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by truthaboutluv

[TattleTeeny]

Yikes with this thing, man! Some of the footage made me feel almost as if I was helping to exploit people at their lowest and that it was none of my business. I'm sure all parties granted permission and all, which is extremely brave, generous, and strong of them; I'm just saying that I felt almost like I was seeing something that someone would be upset to know I saw, if that makes sense. It was harrowing and sad.

I have a question and I hope it's not stupid! Do we know if anyone was actually ever given poison in any way? I know about the Adderall, but I assumed the "kids" knew about that at the time they were given it (and probably wouldn't refer to it as "poison"). But was anyone ever surreptitiously dosed by Larry?

Gotta love the "no sympathy" people. As if they've never ever even once displayed vulnerability or misjudged something or someone. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[Genius]

I just finished this miniseries and am so grateful to have found this forum.  OMG that was insane.  HOW do bright young kids in an independent and social environment such as a liberal arts college get SO manipulated?  And it's not like it was an isolated college, it was in NYC's backyard.  You would think someone's dad would be the LAST person a college kid would want to hang out with.  I kept thinking if I was one of their roommates at Slonim Woods 9, how would I react?  I would like to think I'd be a Max or Raven and be like, "yeah dude no thanks I'm gonna head to the bar to chill with people my own age."

What was Larry's motivation?  I understand cult leaders need followers, but did he believe the things he was convincing them of, or did he know it was all bullshit to manipulate them?  Was he truly paranoid about a Kerik poisoning conspiracy, or was that just the tool he used to control these kids?  It seems like it couldn't be both - either he's a paranoid conspiracy theorist with a persecution complex, OR he's a master manipulator who knows how to create fantastical lies to ensnare dupes.  Since he did indeed ensnare dupes, I'm going with the latter.

And speaking of the poisoning - if Larry was convinced (or pretended to be) that some of the kids in the cult like Santos were trying to poison him, why would he keep them in the cult?  I know logic is the first thing that goes out the window once you're sucked into the cult, but why couldn't Santos reason that out?

Also - how did three of these kids actually graduate from Sarah Lawrence?  They were caught up in the cult by sophomore year.  How did they get through sophomore, junior, and senior years while still servicing Larry's demented needs?  You would think Larry's demands for control wouldn't allow for classes and homework and time to write papers.  Especially since college work would foster critical and independent thinking.  Strange.

My heart breaks for all of them, especially Felicia.  How do you go from a full ride to Harvard and Columbia Medical School, to being THISCLOSE to becoming a full-fledged doctor ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY to being convinced that people, including your own parents, are chasing you and trying to kill you?  I cannot make that jump to how she got there so easily.  I'm so sad for her.  Her reunions with her family were absolutely joyous though.  I did wish we could have been privy to a Rosario family discussion though like, "Can we all just admit there was never any poisoning going on??"

Another random thought - was Talia creeped out that she invited her dad to live with them and he almost immediately started sleeping with her best friend?  Even if she was brainwashed all her life, that should have been a red flag of SOME sort.

Raven is the unsung hero of this piece.  I wish she could have done more, and I'm sure she does too.  But thank God for smart BS-detectors like her.

[TattleTeeny]

We have to remember that, like all big newsworthy cult stories, we the viewers are getting all of the info all at once, so we can clearly see how wacky and predatory it is. For them, it was gradual; even if something seemed kind of odd, it probably didn’t feel dangerous. And although it is super most definitely and noticeably weird for a grown man to stay in student housing, maybe someone wouldn’t begrudge a good friend’s dad from doing so, especially if it was presented that he was in need and that it was temporary. 

In the early stages of this situation, he made dad jokes and cooked food for the kids, and the weird stuff started to seem normal and their trust in him grew, then he’d layer on some more of his craziness. Plus, they were young; they probably couldn’t readily conceive of a peer’s dad being anything but  harmless. 

Had Larry immediately marched in there acting like he acted later — loud and aggressive and abusive — of course they’d all know right away that there was a huge problem. But he didn’t, much like the Church of Scientology doesn’t tell people right away that they’ll need to come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars, renounce family and friends, give up their jobs, etc…

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by TattleTeeny

[Sweet-tea]

Watching the Peacock documentary helped me understand some things a little better. There was a lot more about Claudia and Isabella’s part in it, which was disgusting. 

I can’t believe it took that guy six years to get Larry evicted from his apartment! I still don’t understand why he let Larry stay there rent-free from the start. I must’ve missed something. And he waited a lot longer than I would to get fed up about what Larry was doing to his apartment.

I know Larry is in jail now. The story I read said Isabella has 60 days to report, which would mean sometime in late April. 

Another thing I noticed that I didn’t see at first is how much weight Felicia lost during her ordeal. She looked frail and haggard. It was horrible watching Larry torture these people. I had to turn away at times. The video with Larry using the tool on Dan’s tongue. So awful! Larry was not just a narcissist. He was a sadist. 

It must’ve been gut-wrenching for the parents to arrive and try to get their daughters back and have them refuse to leave. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sweet-tea

[sskrill]

Just got around to watching this - its as insane as the Mormon kidnapper doc.

Larry obviously got off on terrorizing these kids and making them beg for his forgiveness. 

I get what narcissistic manipulators are capable of, but its crazy that he was able to manipulate so many students at once.  Kids that age have so many friends/acquaintences especially if you live on campus - how were they not on to his bullshit sooner. You'd think once he moved that apartment, most of them would cut and run.

Isabella .. I don't even know what to say about her .. and why does she call him Lawrence instead of Larry like all the others?  She's not stupid but it seems like maybe she is mentally disturbed (outside of the things that Larry did to her).  As Felicia said, if he said the sky is red she would argue with anyone who said it wasn't.  Her devotion seemed indicative of something besides manipulation.